What's wrong with Grand Champ?

[@RocketScience]

After reading some fair criticism, I want to address some points. I made it sound too much like my points are 100% objective. The premises are 100% subjective. Deriving logical conclusions from the premises still results in a subjective opinion and not objective fact. "Rough representation of skill" is not a clear definition. Thus you can consider current GC a rough representation of skill. It is however an objectively less accurate representation of skill compared to all other ranks. How much of this is acceptable (200 MMR, 500 MMR, 1000 MMR, 2000 MMR) is again 100% subjective. 5:22 after my warning, I am conveying opinions without the premises (as stated). Just wanted to make sure that's clear in case anyone missed it.

[@YukizzGG]

So here is some feedback from me, i always love your videos, but i have to throw in some thoughts on this one: Your POV in this video isn't really right imo, you mainly look at the 500-900 MMR gap without considering how it actually comes to this scenario. It's just normal that there's such a huge gap because there are much less players, so most of the time, the same players play against each other which mostly leads to the same players win and the better players just get snowballed into higher MMR without limits. So you can't just compare it the same way as the 500 MMR gap between Diamond and GC just like that. Another point is, you can't create new Ranks just for a few hundred up to just some thounsand people, where many of them are already playing in the ESport scene. The increasing share of the GC (due to inflation and maybe a little increasement of smurfs) is a problem, but i think that they could very easily solve it by just making a better soft reset by not cutting the MMR completely, instead lowering exponentially, with a high decrease for high MMR values which goes down to even Bronze ranks, so that a player with 2400 MMR drops to like 1600, a player with 2000 MMR to 1500, a player with 1700 to 1400 ..... a player with 200 to 190. This way they can handle the total inflation and on the same time we would still maintain the ranking division between higher and lower skilled players even on the high MMR end, so high GC players from the previous season won't need to play random matches out of a C3-Pro players pool of possible matches in the Matchmaking during the beginning of the season and also previous C3 players wouldn't need to play against pro players. Btw. general thought about hard resets: It's just stupid if we just really think some seconds about it, it would only be a complete smurfing festival the whole season and in the end it we would just be at the same point as we were the season before.

[@nenadgavrilovic6046]

Thank you for finally making a video regarding this but I believe a lot points are not addressed and would really like for you to analyze ranks further or make a follow up video (maybe when explaining MMR). Psyonix already added new ranks to the game (believe season 4) and Added C3 to the game. Player count didn't change drastically in that time and adding more ranks won't solve issue Rank ≠ Skill. If you add 3 more ranks above let's say 1500 MMR, you will be ranking players based on grinding potential and not on skill. It is a fact that players that are hitting GC now are not same in skill that those who were placed there in let's say season 4 but that doesn't mean that 1800 MMR players are that far in skill than 2300 MMR players. Both can be pros but just don't want to grind a playlist that much. I believe that the best way to combat this is to have a proper reset and if you want to award really the best players, place a Grand Master title when a person reaches GC in 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 playlists at the same time. Then you can award them for dedication. Since you are also a ones player (played you there couple of times) you know how many season x GC titles there are in Diamond ranks. Those people are inconsistent in positioning, flicks and some can't even half flip. I have friends who have hit c2 rank just by grinding when they are plat in 1v1. They can barely score a goal or hit an aerial, adding more ranks will not fix the issue of purple ranks being bad and still represent top 3 ranks in a game. Anyway, just my two cents.

[@TheMixCurator]

When you seem the MMR distribution between low GCs and the top 100 players, there's a 500/700 point difference. Same as a GC to Diamond player. Surely the GC ranks should also have 3 divisions (GC tier 1, 2 and 3), then a Grand Master rank for the top top tier?

[@nenadgavrilovic6046]

​@@TheMixCurator The reason for that is that all GCs (regardless of MMR) cannot go beyond C3 after placement matches. Than they grind a lot and go above 2000 MMR. It soon becomes a matter of grinding and not skill. Most top 100 players are really close in the terms of skill and getting more ranks won't change that as they would all start in GC1 after placement matches and then go even above 3000k MMR. The point of the inflation is the poorly done soft reset that makes good players start at the very top and then everyone else is distributed to lower ranks. Lower GC players wouldn't be higher than C1 in skill 3 seasons ago. I am one of those players since I suck but am GC and don't play this game all that much but am constantly moving higher in rank. They did an MMR shift for 1v1 since it is a least popular playlist and I jumped from D3 to C2 overnight... Your rank is deduced from the position of other players. If there are 10.000 players in RL and you are 110th best player, you will remain 110th player regardless of MMR and if your rank is showing GC or Grand master, makes sense? So adding more ranks won't really change that, but it will make it so the majority of players are now in D2 instead of Gold 2 and there will still be a high percentages of C1+ players.

[@lengyeltamas8674]

I think the "Ranks should be a representation of skill" point of view is 100% correct and objective but unfortunately in this game its a lot different. Here`s my opinion why, with a few examples. I used to play WoW PvP in 2s and reached 2200 which was pretty high back when I played it, I also played League of Legends where I reached almost Master like 3-4 years ago which was also pretty high back then since it wasn`t introduced that long ago to make a gap between Challenger (same as here with GC I think, I mean probably that was the idea behind it) BUT : in my opinion in the 2 games mentioned, the rank representation of skill can be way more "accurate" and "objective" than in Rocket League. Here a few examples/reasons : in Rocket League I`ve met players who are gods in the air, they can somewhat freestyle, do ceiling shots, flip resets but absolutely S*CK on ground play and also in DECISION MAKING + ROTATIONS which are crucial factors (in my opinion) in reaching very high ranks. Also the other way around some are not that mechanicly skilled but have good game sense and can reach really high ranks without those skills. When I played WoW and LoL I didn`t feel the same about these things..because for example in LoL for example if you could play 1 champion that was either banned or nerfed or Items were nerfed that didn`t benefit that champion or he wasn`t good with META teamcomps it just DIDN`T MATTER how much of a god you were with a few champions. Maybe in 1 season you could climb to Master with it but in another season you had to learn a few different ones to even climb CLOSE to the rank you`ve been before. In my honest opinion this isn`t the same in Rocket League so it`s very hard for the game developers to balance this out. In WoW for example..in a single match if you made maybe 1 mistake, used a cooldown out of bait too early and got bursted and died your partner was 1v2 and you lost. In RL you make a mistake get scored on and after you maybe score 5 goals and you win. I think the system is as "stable" as it can be for the moment, if they want to balance it out even more I think it will be hard since some players who are very good at 1v1-s and freestyling can maybe get away with a few goals in 3s/2s when they get put into that situation but if their decision making - boost management and rotations are sh*t it doesn`t matter. They reach a cap until they can`t get away anymore, with stuff I mentioned. That`s just my opinon :) Also what I forgot to mention when you said that there is a 900MMR gap in GC is that if you uses bakkesmod you can see the players rating(which I`m sure you knew by now) but that`s not the point,if you are 2200 you will be placed with players that have +/- 100 MMR more likely in the same game, which is completely fine. In WoW if there were enough good players you could climb up to 2700 and there wasn`t any problem with it, you could feel the skill difference, the tension in the game and it was perfectly fine. Many people approach this topic the same way you mention it in the beggining of the video and the developers most easy fix would probably be : as the players base grows and there are more players in certain ranks just create more ranks and adjust the MMR gaps which I think would be pretty stupid IMHO.

[@Cri11e]

I like how Street Fighter 5 does it: Always showing the worldwide rank you have even if its your first match, its cool.

[@brageengeland8802]

Bruh, there are a lot of GCs, and the logo is the same absically

[@Cri11e]

@@brageengeland8802 SFV Shows a number not a icon of the rank your in. e.g. New pleb joins game is rank 1452360 worldwide.

[@daedalao]

@@Cri11e Once you hit GC it actually shows your own MMR without any added software.

[@alpachino2shae]

Agree. Especially since only 1 out of every 143 player is GC in 2s for example 🙃

[@Cri11e]

@@daedalao That is in the queue menu not in the match lobby.

[@JuicyJuno]

GC players: GC isnt hard enough. Me: *cries in champ 3*

[@gamerandcontroller9129]

TeamVERACITY RL Seriously, C3div3 is a living hell. Always feel like it’s a roll of the dice if you’re going up against an entire gc team in a party and you teamed up with a random pair that have never been gc.

[@maxsmiter2983]

I cry in diamond 2

[@DZ-jm1my]

It's worse when you go to 1490 multiple times then slide to 1200 PepeHands

[@zkd.4969]

@@gamerandcontroller9129 c3 are so bad nowadays, i was 1780 last season, and 1 week ago, i tried to grind with c3 random and that's so hard, i'm always carrying cuz some randoms doesn't know to rotate.

[@smashton_1042]

no, its not that, its going to be "hard" for players who are trying to get GC or who have never got GC, but its not that, its the problem that GC has increasingly gotten worse for each season. 1515 now may have been 1400 2 seasons ago, of course people are getting better, but its to the point where even getting better increase the MMR that much. The ranks right now are way to inflated. Personally I thikn a hard reset is a bad necessary.

[@SmeagolTheGreat]

49% of the new MMR income goes to the Top 1%! We need a tax in Rocket League to distribute some of the Top 1%'s MMR fairly among the player base for equality reasons!

[@laronda10]

Rocket league comment of the year, Lmao

[@Dekross]

2010s and 20s in a nutshell.

[@palmerstubbs4067]

Lmao just be the top % like me, in other words gitt gud

[@ThePedroppz]

very good comparison between (infinite) virtual skill points and (finite) money which people need to feed themselves, get shelter and have healthcare. very insightful.

[@lucasanderson2409]

This is so dumb lol. 49% of new mmr is coming from the top 1% because WE play the most. Kids are putting in anywhere from 60 to 120 hours in 2 weeks. They deserve to get the mmr.

[@gblawrence034]

Even just having a number to indicate my position on the ladder would make me so much more motivated to push higher into GC

[@matts5247]

gblawrence03 you clearly aren’t a gc if you’re unaware that there are leaderboards based on mmr So yes Thais exactly “a number to indicate [your] position on the ladder

[@gblawrence034]

Matt S OK. I don’t know why you’re making assumptions like that. I am willing to provide my tracker link. I am very much aware that there are already leaderboards based on MMR, thank you very much. I am assuming you’re referring to the rocket league tracker network, which I do use to track my position sometimes. However, the tracker network isn’t as reliable as official data from Psyonix would be. The only people who appear on those leaderboards are the ones who have tracked themselves using the site in the current season, so not every player will show up. Additionally, their position and MMR is not updated until they track themselves again. So if someone below me gains 10 mmr and overtakes me, my position won’t go down until they track themselves. So please fuck off with your uneducated “you are clearly not a GC”. Have a nice day.

[@rolef6084]

@@gblawrence034 go get m

[@FlamingIceeee]

gblawrence03 why would u want to see that you’re 50 thousandth rank? Seems pointless unless you’re top 5000. Just get bakkesmod and see the mmr

[@gblawrence034]

@@FlamingIceeee I peaked at 1700 which is approximately top 5000 :)

[@idiatico]

As someone whos been stuck in c2 for the last 3 years despite improving alot over that time(everyone else is improving too), it annoys me when people say Gc is too easy to get

[@TheMathias95]

You don't need great mechanics to get GC, just proper decision making. This is where, I believe, most people come from, saying GC is easy to get. I honestly have the worst mechanics ever, but I just use my brain, meaning I control the ball rather than shooting it straight down to the enemy. By playing patiently and smart GC is easy to get. No need to ceiling wavedash musty triple backboard, just let them be baited out and shoot on target as they decide to commit to a challenge.

[@idiatico]

@@TheMathias95 trust me I know all that, GC isnt easy to get

[@mantisrl9896]

Exactly, if it was 'easy' to get then the majority of the playerbase wouldn't be stuck in plat/diamond.

[@TheMathias95]

@@idiatico I think we have different interpretations on the word "easy". I see it like this. It is easy in the sense that you don't need to be mechanically good, however having those good mechanics surely will cut the playtime by a huge margin to get GC. In my case it takes time rather than it being difficult, so it's time consuming yes, but it's not difficult to spent some time everyday for a long period of time.

[@TheMathias95]

@@mantisrl9896 That argument has some flaws. The majority of the playerbase don't spent all their playtime trying to rank up, they play to just play. It's a fact that plats/diamonds don't think about their ball touches 100% of the time, they don't think about when to challenge and when to not over commit. (It's a fact since people in GC still don't think about every touch they make, so I'm not talking shit about mid ranks for the sake of the memes, but because of observations).

[@TeKaMOTO]

3:00 The thing is though, that for 99,3% of the player base rank is a representation of skill. Remember were only talking about the top 0,7% of players here. This whole discussion is about a "problem" that only concerns a minute part of the players, who already play the game so much that I doubt they actually need more motivation. They'll be playing the game just as much even without new ranks and I'll bet 95% of them have bakkesmod showing them the MMR, which they already use to gauge their skill. So why would you need a new rank? The players have already come up with a system for that and it doesn't need a change from Psyonix, they're already playing for the MMR, to win more and to become even better at the game. Alos, to me it's only natural that the number of GCs increases every season. After all, the player base is improving all the time so why wouldn't there be more players who reach GC? I wouldn't be opposed to showing the top 1-500 rank (or even a rounded MMR number like 1500, 1600, 1700, etc under the GC logo) on the match end screen or as reward titles, but adding more ranks just kind of seems like moving the goalposts for the benefit of the 0,3% who feel entitled to even more.

[@birdicus1832]

My problem with you argument about GCs being a small percentage of the player base therefore not making it a big issue, is that they also happen to be the players who are most invested in the game. Also, one you get to GC in a playlist it shows you your mmr on the screen where you pick which game mode you are going to play so all that bakkesmod does is let you know the mmr of everyone else in the lobby. Also, when being a GC doesn't feel special anymore there needs to be something done about it. I've said this many times before, I would rather not have a GC title, than have a GC title that doesn't mean anything. With such a large amount of the players being GC now, it doesn't feel as special. It felt special when GC was the top 0.3% but now that it has more than doubled in less than a year and a half, it means nothing anymore.

[@evanfox3136]

- more people getting GC is fine but the % is increasing, which means more people hit GC than start playing the game. Eventually everyone would be Gc

[@TeKaMOTO]

@@birdicus1832 "My problem with you argument about GCs being a small percentage of the player base therefore not making it a big issue, is that they also happen to be the players who are most invested in the game." Exactly, those who are GC are already the most dedicated people that play the game so I don't get where they're getting this loss of motivation from. They're already playing for the MMR. And it's not like anyone is actually playing for rewards. They might say they are, or trick themselves mentally to think they are, but at the end of the day, how often do you see someone using the reward items in game? "Also, one you get to GC in a playlist it shows you your mmr on the screen where you pick which game mode you are going to play so all that bakkesmod does is let you know the mmr of everyone else in the lobby." Ok, so 100% of the players know their MMR. "Also, when being a GC doesn't feel special anymore there needs to be something done about it." If being in the top 0,7% of the world isn't "special" enough for you anymore, I don't know what to tell you. Sure 0,3% is more exclusive, come on. The player base is improving every year and moving the goal posts would most likely demotivate the 99,7% of the player base. So Psyonix will likely not make more ranks, to please a few in the minority, who are already highly addicted to the game. (There are also more and more GC smurf accounts every year but, it's impossible to say how many.) "I've said this many times before, I would rather not have a GC title, than have a GC title that doesn't mean anything. With such a large amount of the players being GC now, it doesn't feel as special. It felt special when GC was the top 0.3% but now that it has more than doubled in less than a year and a half, it means nothing anymore." That's your opinion. And mine is that I think that the top rank should be even somewhat achievable to people who didn't start playing the game when it was release, but have still put in a ton of time into it. More people have become better at the game and the pros have become better. They're pushing the skill ceiling up and the player base is following. Do me a favor and have a look at a normal distribution graph and see how big an area the 0,7% occupy. A tiny sliver. I doubt Psyonix is making their money off of those people but rather the overwhelming body of players who aspire to become better at the game.

[@birdicus1832]

@@TeKaMOTO I get your points, I'm just saying that getting a new rank feels good, and I will never be able to do it again unless I decide to grind 1s or solo standard. I just want to have the chance to grind for something other than a number. Even just getting a higher division or having a grand champ 1, 2, and 3 would be something to grind for.

[@mctit]

Did you even watch the video? Pretty much everything you just said was countered in the video.

[@RocketScience]

I'll -always- disagree with anyone that makes a statement like "x% is fair" regardless of whether they think it's 0.01% or 5%. If you're starting with the percentage, you're not starting with the problem in mind. edit: fair is always subjective. My point is that we shouldn't argue whether some GC% is fair, but rather what the disadvantages of the current system are.

[@noahcarmona8532]

Same here dude I agree

[@RocketScience]

The objective part is that GC objectively fails the requirements. I specifically asked for people to put into the comments why they disagree with the requirements, if they do. Do you?

[@Obi-WanKannabis]

Seems to me like your whole video is still an opinion. Rank doesn't mean MMR. Rank is like a belt in martial arts. Every competitive fighter is a black belt, that doesn't mean that all black belts are roughly the same level. A grand champ is a highly skilled player on the top ~1% of performance. That doesn't mean that all grand champs are equal and it doesn't mean that it SHOULD be that way.

[@RocketScience]

"It's perfectly possible to start a statement with a conclusion AND have an "objective" (your definition of objective here) reasoning." Absolutely, it is possible. But I never claimed my statement applies to all statements that start with the conclusion. I guess my wording is over the top. I'd be genuinely interested to hear what statement/data you can start from that uses objective reasoning to arrive at "x% is fair". I just didn't see any possibility for that, so I worded it like that.

[@RocketScience]

@@robertjansen6019 No, you're being fair :P I wrote a sticky comment to address some of the points and edited the original comment. Might want to check that out. I still disagree about your "Ranks should be able to be used as targets for some majority of players" argument. That approach is the idea of maximizing the average motivation, and I assume putting Grand Champ even lower would increase the average motivation, with more players coming in reach of GC. Although data would have to be collected to find the optimal result. My approach would be to maximize the minimum motivation, by making sure players don't just reach some rank and then have no more ranks. MMR is possible. As stated in the video, you could say that to everyone and just call it a day. No need to add ranks and rewards. I addressed the skill representation point in the sticky.

[@notapplicable7292]

so the most dedicated 0.7% of the player base requires more motivation than hitting milestone numbers like 1600gc or 1700gc. Yea I don't think the people who have already played thousands of hours are doing so because they specifically want a new graphical rank. imo they should have titles for 1500mmr, 1600mmr, top 1000, top 100, top 10, top 1

[@smashton_1042]

I like that title idea, that could work

[@smittywerbenjagermanjensen1051]

Let us speak for ourselves. I would love new icons to reflect every +100 mmr past GC and I'd grind harder to get better ones, no doubt.

[@d.8131]

hi, i play rocket league very much

[@smittywerbenjagermanjensen1051]

@@C_Squared_ So then this doesn't really apply to them, does it? Most of my friends who are GC say they want the ranks fixed, you don't speak for the majority.

[@princeazsa4741]

@@smittywerbenjagermanjensen1051 also u don't speak gor majority either, just for the loudest ppl

[@ArrJaySee]

My counter-argument as a semi-hardcore player with 1400 hours over 3 years is that what drives me to play the game is the possibility of ultimately hitting the highest rank. Grand Champ feels just about attainable and that gives me more motivation to play. If the highest rank would suddenly be 1900 MMR that motivation would undoubtedly go down as I know I would never get there. If the majority of the player base (as you showed, only 0.7 percent are GC) feel similarly to me then you are potentially taking away their hope of being the highest achievable rank in a game to make the game more enjoyable for a very small percentage of the player base. I do see the pros of adjusting the ranks of course but I feel it's hard to see the implications for the wider community when you are a high-level GC and have had this apathy towards ranked for a long time. There is no perfect solution. But for me, personally - a semi-hardcore player - if the ultimate rank suddenly became unattainable for me I may well stop playing the game.

[@d.8131]

i think thats not semi hardcore, got like 200 only last 2 weeks if u want grand champ, get good and get there, its not ur mates not the smurfs, its just what u do when u get the ball. be good, get gc but dont cry that its tooo hard

[@ArrJaySee]

@@d.8131 I don't really see how this is a response to my points.

[@y0yt857]

I’d have to disagree, as I’m sure when you were gold/plat you weren’t motivated to achieve the highest rank in the game short term, more so to achieve the rank above the current one you were playing at. You probably feel this way now because your soo close to getting the gc title that it’s become a short term goal. The thing is, gc is a sign of being the best of the best when it comes to the game, and should be seen as a long term goal. The statement your making is indicating how you still want to be seen as a top player from your rank without actually being a top player in the game. I mean that’s why people want gc, so they can be part of the top cohort of players in the game.

[@Eve456B]

The amount of players that complain about grand champ being easy is so low I wouldn't bother changing everything, unless it actually gets easy and suddenly 4% is gc

[@eryyc9638]

Yeah I agree that it would be frustrating if the rankingsystem would be changed so that GC is much harder. However we have the Problem in the first place because ranks weren't adjusted season after season or if GC just stayed at the percentage it was earlier. We already had a big adjustments in ranked from season 3 to 4 from 1140 to 1515. I was 1200 at that time which meant that, especially because the reset was kinda hard (max rank after placements was dia 3 div 4), I was in diamond and I was fine with it because I knew I hadn't deserved Grand Champion yet. I grinded even harder and got c3 div 3 at the end of s4 and 2 Werks into s5 I was GC and it felt so much better than in season 3 where you got it for free it felt like. What I am trying to say is that someone who isn't really grinding the game and hasn't really mastered rotation and positioning yet shouldn't even have had a shot at Grand Champion. This was the case in season 4. Only 0.16% of the playerpopulation in 2s were GC and thats fair since there isn't anything above it and you should ve to inovate to stay at the top.

[@connorbrennan336]

my solution would be to add different levels of GC somehow. like a new GC would be GC level 1 this way GC's could still have a goal (to reach the next level of GC) but it doesnt take away the fact that its the highest "rank" and gives GC players a goal, the hardest part would be making the levels visible to other players in the lobby. (im champ 3 btw so i am biased towards keeping GC where it is so i can reach it).

[@max1ms]

Yeah like every 100mmr after GC you go 1 level up, with a small number on your batch

[@connorbrennan336]

@@max1ms yea something like that i thnk 100 mmr for each level is fair

[@max1ms]

@@connorbrennan336 no idea why that haven't already done something with the levels, probably on their to do list. Would be amazed if it wasn't on their radar

[@KveruLars]

Yeah this is the way to go imo. Also, Top 100 should have your placement visible, as he showed as an example in the video.

[@harstar12345]

We already have this with bakkes mod, in a way, and I would argue 1/2 of GCs use it to see their MMR and their tms MMR. I would LOVE to see RL put MMR the way bakkesmod does as default or an option, they you motivate yourself with getting to that next 00, or 50, some way to track your peak. I can't see how adding GC1, 2, 3, 4 would do anything but clutter. A red GC badge would be cool, but it's not some golden bullet that will make people enjoy the game again. What motivates me is getting in lobbies with pros, putting my skills against the best in the world and watching that gap shrink season after season, putting up a fight against RLCS teams is the most enjoyable rocket league since the first few months with friends where everyone is bad and it's hilarious

[@ystudbeast3]

It’s hard to fix because as the player base gets better and better it’s harder to give players a rank because you have to decide if ranks are based on an absolute measurement (their skill) or their skill relative to the rest of player base. In a relative system, players can be actively improving at the game but will not see their rank increase since the rest of the player base is also getting better ( not very rewarding to the player). /I think they should just add more ranks past gc instead of adding more ranks around diamond/champ since it keeps incentives for lower players and new goals for GCs.

[@thimblebirb]

i think the motivation to play rocket league becoming dependent on the rank is a problem in itself. the game is getting old. but, i do prefer the system dota uses, which you mentioned.

[@davecash1568]

CREE7EN. Finally someone said it!! New game modes are a must if rl is guna survive

[@theepicgamer1196]

@@davecash1568 I think he meant the rank system (i.e. adding a Master rank before Champ and adding Diamond 4 and 5). Also, making the game free-to-play would greatly increase the player base i think (and also probably the cheaters/smurfs)

[@kotherrl2512]

@@theepicgamer1196 lol

[@max1ms]

Hey nice video!! My idea I already have for I while, looks abit like one you said in your video. But if GC is 1500 mmr. Just put a small 1 on the GC label when someone reach 1600 mmr. A small 2 when someone reach 1700 mmr. And so on, you get more of a GC level ppl are alresdy using theme self, but now you see it on the GC batch how much levels someone got in GC. Don't you think that would work? Please keep making this kind of video's really enjoyable :)

[@LivingLegacy77]

I really like this idea.

[@gobleturky6192]

Or you could add very wide divisions to gc, like div 1 is 1500-1600, div 2 is 1600-1700, etc.

[@RL_Happy]

Jack Whitney but other players can’t see your division, can they? (i don’t know much)

[@max1ms]

@@RL_Happy if you use bakkesmod you can see other people's mmr, if you don't you can't. If you see someone's mmr you can calculate witch division they are in

[@aggrobox]

that doesn't really give any incentive though if you get the same ranks. anyone with a rank checker can see 1700 numbers so something like a small 2 wouldn't matter too much when people already say what their mmr is.

[@dyfrgi]

The way MTG: Arena does it is pretty good. Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond each with 4 tiers. So you can be e.g. Gold tier 2. Then you get to Mythic. In Mythic, you see your rank as a percentile at first. It starts around 95%, so you'd be e.g. Mythic 95%. Once you hit the top 1000 players then you have a numbered rank: Mythic #913, up to Mythic #1. You see your opponents percentile when they're in Mythic, so you have a number of ranks equal to the size of the Mythic population.

[@fink6722]

That sounds really good, so I'm guessing Mythic is their version of GC? That would be really easy for psyonix to implement, while also not decreasing the value/ reward of the hard work that goes into getting GC. So it would be like GC 95%, to show that 95% of GCs have a higher MMR

[@NeosMaxi]

I think that they could add some ranks on 1500-1700, 1700-1900 and +1900 (which are now named as Low GC, Mid GC, High GC/Pro level) people on the community gives solutions to it pretty clear

[@elclashh209]

Yeah I feel keep GC 1515 or whatever it is and at 1700 you reach a new higher rank. Then at top 100 is another rank. Ez motivation for GCs that are maybe getting bored of the game

[@maxd1744]

@@elclashh209 just a whole new rank at ~1700 ~1800 ~1900 and ~2000

[@elclashh209]

@@maxd1744 I feel like that's too much. There's not enough people to populate those ranks I feel like.

[@maxd1744]

@@elclashh209 there will be

[@antonigarithebestv2]

Shouldn't they add divisions like grand champ division 1 etc but make them larger.

[@csongorjeges2827]

I like that idea

[@burntgrass8066]

Yeah I was thinking just the same, like grand champ is black belt but there are still 1st degree and 2nd degrees to shoot for. I think that a lesser important rank above grand champ would be important to gc’s and still a good goal for others.

[@_XRMissie]

People cry out for a hard reset, but fail to realise that if a hard reset were to be done, it has to be done EVERY season to avoid inflation and keep GC to the "original" 0.2% of players. I'm not entirely sure how one would fix this issue, since every method talked about would face backlash from a number of people... But I'd love to see SOMETHING change. I've been GC 3 times now (S10 RNG, S11 2v2, S13 2v2, didn't play in S12 lmao), and I only ever play like 50-150 ranked games, the rest is casual. The system hasn't changed since like S3, so I think it's definitely time for some change. However, keep in mind that as it stands, a player needs to play for ~2k hours just to reach GC. It's still a difficult feat, and moving the goal posts would frustrate almost everyone.

[@Tekay37]

I think you've missed a very important aspect there that is on the devs mind and in every GCs interest: queueing time. On the highest level ranks you only have very few players, so searching for a match can take 2-5 minutes. GCs complaining about weak low GC players don't have in mind that the alternative would be to wait longer for a match. Therefore I'm afraid that matchmatking might be a losing game for the devs. They can decide between players complaining about skill levels or players complaining about queueing time.

[@LivingLegacy77]

As far as I'm aware players aren't matched up by rank, they're matched by MMR. Usually the two go hand in hand but that's not the case for GC which has no upper limit. Adding another rank should not affect matchmaking in anyway.

[@noiJadisCailleach]

Are you kidding me? 2-5 minutes queue time for a GC is a Godsend if you're here in Asia/OCE. Queue times of 30-40 minutes is already an accepted fact of life here. It depends on the time of the day. But yeah, that's our normal. But it's not without solution. We just queue up at the region with the most toxic people in the world - USW.

[@mctit]

Adding more ranks wouldn't change matchmaking at all, games have multiple ranks in them already. Just look at solo standard matchmaking.

[@milhousekid]

You're way off, because matchmaking only looks at mmrs not ranks

[@TheKevKat]

@@noiJadisCailleach US East is more toxic trust me, I'm a Us West play btw lol

[@jcwahoo85]

I just hit Champ 1 at the start of this season. It's taken me a span of 2 years nearly 1200 hours played to get there. Whenever I hit GC I won't stop until I'm consistently in the top 100. I play for the thrill of competition, not so much the rewards. Being considered one of the best to play the game is the greatest reward, imo. GC will just be a major milestone in that quest.

[@HyyDee]

Justin Critzer if it took you two years to get to champ 1 (which is super inflated right now and very easy to get into), you will never get top 10000, let alone top 100

[@blazeqwerty4012]

It’s not gonna be easy to hit top 100 but grind it out .. yo I was total trash two years into rocket league ( skill rating was much lower back then tho) now I constantly hit gc in team modes . Ones is a whole different story . I never thought I could hit gc back when I was a rising star (gold now) but enough grinding , anything is possible

[@HyyDee]

Blaze Qwerty do you go by “QWERTYMINS” or some variation of that?

[@blazeqwerty4012]

Nicholas Altman nah man

[@kujasan]

Easy solution: Show mmr for all gcs ingame. And if you want reachable goals, do it for every 100mmr points. Like this: GC (1500) - GC (1600) and so on. This way low GCs don't lose anything and higher rated players gain a tangible, globally shown badge. If you are a GC and you want lower rated players to lose their GC rank, you may want to rank up your social skills in the meantime.

[@max1ms]

I said the same, nice to see more people thinks this!

[@KizyRL97]

Yeah this is rly good but, I'm a 1700 and im stuck in 1500 lobbies because you cant get 1700 from placements, this should of been added if u see what I'm ssying

[@kujasan]

@@KizyRL97 Different problem tbh, but absolutely true. The mmr setback is much too harsh and makes playing at the start of every season terrible for everyone really.

[@KizyRL97]

@@kujasan yeah I mean it is a similar problem because if there was a rank like gc 3 (1700 mmr) you would be able to get it into placements because it wouldn't be the highest rank

[@jwri9ht01]

i would like to see a video on how the mmr system works, cause from my understanding it based on the elo system of chess and while technically the elo system can be infinite, it is limited by the player base skill distribution

[@NightRyder]

Yh I think it's similar, because when Hikaru is at 3200/3300 he only gets like 2 points from a 3000 lol same in rocket league when a 2000 player plays a 1800

[@noiJadisCailleach]

dive into this channel's uploads and you'll find the vid you're looking for.

[@TeKaMOTO]

www.reddit.com/r/RocketLeague/comments/8qvbwf/how_mmr_and_the_ranking_system_works/

[@phillipwatts1679]

It is related to Elo, yes, but it is more closely related to Glicko, which is an enhancement of Elo. Glicko is used in many online chess servers now instead of Elo.

[@FLUNDYGAMING]

I like the idea of just having the exact rank number on the GC emblem like how Hearthstone does with the Legend rank, since it wouldn't shake things up too much while showing exactly where you stand at the top percentile.

[@andreantunes7523]

Being the 439th player *does* have a ring to it! If you were losing weight, would you be happy only at the specific milestones (50,100,150, 200 etc)? In League, it's incredibly satisfying seeing your #topnumber go down. You go from top 2% to 0.5% and you feel great. Lower ranks do not need these numbers, as rank displays your skill pretty accurately. But in the top ranks, an exact number makes progression visible. Compare these 2 situations: 1. A gold player went for top 60% to top 40%. 2. A top player went from top 600 to top 500. The second situations is *wayyyy* more pleasing than the first one. When the pool of players is small but skilled (an elite), progression becomes exact and small, but pleasing. The top ranks in Rocket League should be "top Xs" since it would accurately represent skill. A top 100 is CONSIDERABLY more skilled than a top 1000, and if the player knows that he will push harder for it, raising the bar even higher.

[@locomotion666]

Nahh it's always tm8s fault even when I miss an open net.

[@proballa27]

Hey @Rocket Science! So @3:35 thats actually my reddit post! I ended up quitting the game shortly after making it. My reasons for quitting were pretty much exactly the same reasons you outlined in this video. I came back this season when I found out they finally added more ranks, and after a really long grind just to get back to GC, i'm now GC2 and (hopefully) improving. I guess it might seem silly to some to require a little icon on your screen to motivate you, but it really was a big factor in me dropping the game for so long. I don't think I'm even capable of fully explaining how or why, but rest assured the points you made in this video were extremely valid and (at least for me) the changes that you suggested that ultimately were made actually brought me back into the game. Thanks for all the videos you make! Especially the ones on input lag, although i'm now debating whether I should switch off the xbox controller due to your latest video...

[@Tweakyowl]

When ever I play with my lower rank friend we always play a silver or bronze that know how to flip reset (smurf) and I’m a plat 2.

[@dannygomez1508]

Lol I was smurfing for a friend and it was literaly smurf vs smurf. Pretty much a 1v1 in 2s lol

[@palmerstubbs4067]

Just Git out of Silva or Bronza..

[@Kurosaka]

IKR they always come up

[@Kurosaka]

But they ff later on

[@saucey1840]

I air dribbled in Gold 2 and Flip reset plat 2 and Finally mastered the ceiling shot on plat 3

[@kaebyon1140]

Personally, I think a similar system to the Overwatch Top 500 system would be good, however, I'd alter it to display percentiles rather than a rank (aside from possibly the top 100). You could have different "divisions" of GC for each 10th percentile, I think it'd be cool if we integrated roman numerals into the rank icon. I for the bottom 10% all the way up to X for the top 10%. This gives attainable goals, as well as a dynamic ranking system that should keep everyone motivated as to not fall out of their current division while striving for the next. As a GC, I feel that this would keep me motivated.

[@noiJadisCailleach]

Another problem: REWARDS. Lately, rewards don't really have any value anymore. Sure, a shiny title, some item. But if you've been getting them every season and don't really wear/use it, what's the point? A lot of GCs use default/common items. Will wear the reward for 1 or 2 days. Heck, 1 or 2 games sometimes, even. Then will go back to what we usually use. So what if we add some creativity with the rewards focusing on: Exclusivity/Prestige? Exclusivity/Prestige has been the point of rewards in the first place. A prize you know you worked hard for. AFAIK, Psyonix current implementation of rewards only has one variety right now: *Showcase.* By my understanding, your achievements in skill are only seen by others by your item rewards, title, and if you've achieved it, leaderboard. Aren't there other varieties of rewards? I'll squeeze my brain and think of something. Other Varieties: - Access - Physical object - Monetary (could by physical object, yes, but i'll elaborate later) - Exposure (like Showcase, yes, but imma distinguish from it later) Access - Psyonix could setup a group that is exclusive only to those who has reached and RETAINED a certain MMR. They have to hold a minimum MMR to be eligible. - Heck, it could even be a game mode. They might be blamed of Elitism? Isn't a ranking system a fruit bore from elitism? - It could be an exclusive weekly tournament with it's own list of rewards. - RL's system can tie in with discord and the player could automatically be added to an exclusive channel on their official discord server. - - Of course, this channel could have it's own perks and variety of rewards. Like being able to talk with pros! Or get coaching from them in Psyonix's expense. Physical object - I got this idea from KZbin's silver/gold/ruby playbutton. Psyonix could do something similar. You couldn't get anymore tangible with your hardwork's payoff than a physical object. A good side effect i see happening when this is implemented would be less smurfing. How? A person's address, security details, location, etc. It's easy to connect the dots when they use an identity thief police. Monetary - Just like with Physical object. But the greens, yoh! If money is tight, you could just give this to an even smaller number of people from those that got the Physical object reward. It could be random from this group of people. Like at least, when you reach the requirement to be here, you've gained the lottery ticket to gain this reward. Exposure - This is great for up and coming, you know are underrated, in a bubble team, from a remote region group of people. Psyonix could randomly showcase a player from this group of people and interview them, share their social media account(s), etc. Just having this chance alone is a great boon for motivation if you're actually trying to make pro. Out of all my suggestions, only "Access" softly suggests touching the development of the game. Which we know, could take a lot of time and resources. But workaround to achieve the idea outside the game is possible too! So i see these as low barriers to implementation for Psyonix as a bonus. They could pull out the numbers anytime to get the list of groups of people that deserve these rewards. Not a TLDR, but I disagree with having new ranks. That's just plainly unfair to all those who're in the cusp of reaching the rank they want to get. My quick fix: Once you reach GC, Show your rank in the ladder from the rest of the world. P.S. In all honesty, most of my propositions are made to lessen/dampen smurfing. P.P.S. Not to say i don't smurf. My friends and i do it too. Just to get a kick out of climbing the ranks. It's like a new game mode all on it's own. We race to GC independently, but we only play at the same time. A lack of game modes is a different problem of RL but a topic for another day. ;) P.P.P.S. If you're reading from the start up to here. Thank you! and Thank you for your time! :D

[@MaxMustermann-bm7qt]

I agree with some of access. A tounament or season as qualifiers for the pros might be cool, also it would generate more good players at the same time on the server. The rest doesn't seem realistic to me. A trophy, money or fame, seems like that will come automatically if there is a chance to earn it that doesn't have to do with luck, but skill. So i had a look at the RLCS qualyfires and it does look kinda exactly like a fair way to qualify for the pros. What do you think? you probably have a different format in mind.

[@xternalz]

I really like the exposure idea

[@ElOmarMaton]

5:20 damn I didn't make the cut :(

[@goblue2246]

Lol unlucky bud

[@Rokito19]

Im c3 div 3 and ive been around High c2 mid c3 for nearly 2 seasons, so it would be sad if they made Gc further away. But i understand that it would be beretter for the comunity, so im all for it.

[@jaspuhh.]

Well said... we have got to think about it on a broader scale and think about what would be right for the while player base

[@jaspuhh.]

Whole*

[@tibhamel]

As a mid C2 to high C3 (I'm very inconsistent...), I like the idea of a new rank, like master between diamond and champ. I would lose champ, but still have a lot of ranks to push for, and hopefully get back to champ one day, which was a very big deal when I first got it. And gc remains the final rank, the epitome of greatness that only the best can achieve with around 1800 mmr.

[@TeKaMOTO]

Nah, it would only be better for the egos of the GCs who complain about it all the time. They're not the community, they are a portion of the 0,7% of the player base of millions.

[@tibhamel]

@@TeKaMOTO I literally just wrote I liked the idea while not being gc, how would it ONLY be better for the ego of gcs? And even if they are only 0,7% of the community, if the change doesn't matter much to the rest of the community, then why not do it? I doubt the millions of casual players in bronze to diamond would care that gc is now 1800 mmr, rather than 1500.

[@golhiathmaster4811]

AWESOME VIDEO halfway as always i love the way you give us the information

[@NightRyder]

I agree it would be cool to have players more motivated to get higher ranks. But what I don't get is how this would change anything, low grand camps would just become another rank people would complain about, like grand champs would still have to play with them, since it matches players on mmr not by the actual rank. I think whatever psyonix do people will complain. Players that really want to improve won't need these higher ranks to aim for. They already can see their mmr. But yh really interesting video :)

[@anakinskywalker3258]

Totally agree GC is good enough we don't need anymore ranks. Gc is hard enough for most people anyway.

[@droppingbricksonstuff1471]

Grand Champion Div 1, 2 and 3. An indicator for when you are in the top 1000 but don’t show the exact position and keep top 100. This caters to the .00001% GC guys with top 100, the better half of GC’s with top 1000 and the lower level GC’s with divisions while keeping the elusiveness of GC alive.

[@seattle2258]

fix the grand champ icon so that it fits the colour of the reward ...

[@avivfrai4858]

expand the mmr brackets for each rank by multplying each rank bracket size by a certain number (say 1.2 for example, could be bigger, could be smaller) until gc entry point is at a desired number. the advantage of doing this is that the lower your mmr the lower the impact on your rank will be since the rank difference is a sum of the differences in the rank below (i.e. the bracket size increases for all the ranks below you stack up meaning you'll drop more the higher up you go), which works great with casual players being less likely to accept having their rank changed since their rank will be messed with the least, and the people who take most of the hit are those higher up who were the ones asking for this change in the first place.

[@harstar12345]

It's not that I disagree with your premises, but adding in ranks between diamond and champ, and champ and GC blow up P2 on the basis that their are people on a steady climb to 1515 and by moving the goalposts (pun intended) you will heavily demotivate them. You know me, bud, been GC since S8 reached the dizziest heights of high 1700, it's not a selfish motivation, but really put yourself in someone's shoes in S8 with their absolute skill level at GC, it's already a fairly low skill level vs the worst GCs of today, because the player bases overall ability has increased. So taking this point of view, the amount of time, dedication, hard work, and, importantly, ability to get GC is as high as ever, we just have more people with 2k+ hours than we've ever had. People act like GC was ever a very high skill thing to get and it wasn't, you just had 700hours in the game, you were slow, it was a mountain, but you climbed it, you didn't stop climbing, your instincts became better so you react faster than ever, but the game FELT faster when you got GC. You THINK people whiffed less. It wasn't and they didn't, it was slower, and people missed easy balls, easy saves, easy goals. I hate to say it, because it's embarrassing, but it's true, and we have the KZbin videos of low GC of 2017 to prove it. People should watch them, it's a shit show, people rotate like melons, people go for balls they could never get, no one had boost management, RLCS S3 blew us away. We're an improving player base, and it's great. GC is really the start of a players journey, but that's the way it's always been, training wheels off, no more flashy things to work towards, just self improvement, isn't that what's it's been all along?

[@RocketScience]

Yes, that could definitely demotivate people. But not doing anything isn't motivating for all the GC players. Why do the lower ranked players get the priority? As I stated in the video, putting GC even lower would allow more players to reach it and could realistically allow more players to get in that zone where they consider it reasonably reachable for themselves. Which of these is preferable? You could argue that the average motivation should be as high as possible, but since the number of players towards the top is really small, this will always be heavily weighted downwards at the cost of the higher ranked players. So you could argue that the minimum motivation per rank should be maximized, which is kind of what I'm proposing. I did read the rest of your comment too but again that sounds more like an argument of how good a GC should be, which I purposefully stray away from.

[@harstar12345]

@@RocketScience it's not about what % we draw for GC, it's about having a set target and moving it. Any changes, other than the way MMR is calculated, which we're not talking about today. The rest of my comment was disillusioning people of their misconceptions that GC has become easier to get, because that's the argument that I hear constantly against my pov. My argument doesn't touch on # of players with motivation, it's an argument of motivation vs demotivation. I believe a higher rank is a good idea, grandmaster or something, but leaving GC as is has to be the devs main priority. Keep GC motivation, whilst also motivating mid GCs. Imagine having 1.5k hours, being C2 and then out of nowhere C2 becomes 500 points more to get to GC, that's going to be another 1k hours to reach your goal, I would imagine, and also the trust is gone, what if they put in another 1k hours and just as they're going to be GC we have this discussion again, or every season, keeping it just out of reach from the mid-tier players. I think this is a massive negative and not close to being outweighed by the advantages. I personally don't think I'd care if I had the GM title every season, it would be little to no extra motivation, but I could clickbait my stream a little harder, I guess.

[@birdicus1832]

@@harstar12345 Isn't the mmr changing like that exactly what happened back in season 4 though? There were plenty of GC players in season 3 who ended up being diamond or low champ in season 4. I doubt having the lower rank really demotivated them since they already enjoyed the game and it gave them another goal to play for.

[@harstar12345]

@@birdicus1832 S3 was a shit show because they swung GC to be like D1 now, I believe. Have to say I was a PS4 player back then so wasn't aware of MMR changes etc. Just know I woke up one day and had GC when it was really far from me. It was bad for the inverse reason I said.

[@jamessergon]

I do think something should be done, but im not sure on the right decision. A more obvious issue is the matching system, and it has many solutions, and none of them are being worked on it seems. They just have to make it so that the MMR that serves for matchmaking is the highest MMR you have ever achieved in a windows of the last 2 or 3 seasons (1 of them is the current one), so 1) if you are a high rank (let's assume a GC) who is dropping rank just to get other people up, it wont really work because he will still get match to other GCs and will mostly get crush by full teams of GCs; and 2) people won't want to go to a rank they shouldnt be at, or they will be stucked for a while playing high risk low reward and/or difficult games. You add to the mix one or many of the following feats and i think we are a better place: 1) a shared account link between different plateform so you use the same "RL account" and share MMR through all platforms you are registered with it (even if you bough it on different platform), as 1 time thing and once per platform; 2) New account (because of point 1, should pretty much only needs to be real new players) should be rank-locked before they hit a certain level (doesnt need to be high, but it needs to be a balance where new players would be interested into competition, and players won't be able to just buy the game again under a new account and go smurf in comp. And i'll throw something else: replace solo standard by team standard, and/or at least make it so when you do 3v3 rank, if you are a team of 3, you go against a team of 3; if you are 2 in your team, you go against a team of team + random.

[@3CODKing]

As much as I hate to say it, I HIGHLY doubt psyonix would even *consider* this. Why because its too much work and not enough money.

[@cosmicbro1973]

Thuramir's House sounds like a shitty game developer if thats how they run things

[@3CODKing]

Cosmic Bro I mean, yeah, Psyonix was bought out by Epic Games, but even before then, as the years went on the devs slowly stopped listening. Tis a shame really.

[@clapflap6378]

Thuramir's House how exactly does changing a game require money? and not a single developer in the world ever says its too much work

[@hurricane4051]

Just adding different levels of GC and maybe a title or indicator for being in Top 100 isnt that much work and would increase the amount of people playing the game, so why shouldnt they do this?

[@AnnihilatorCZ]

@@cosmicbro1973 It is not. This guy is nuts. The game is well taken care of.

[@isaa3c]

3:49 is comedic genius 'your name on the leaderboard'

[@Cri11e]

Simply a excellent video. It would revive rl for many GCs, me included.

[@gf1x119]

I agree it feels like that as soon as I got gc the game is boring and I dont want to push higher

[@nathanf1390]

I played Halo 5 when it came out and looking back it was actually cool in how they laid out the ranks. It was your normal bronze, silver, gold, plat and diamond with tiers inside each rank, but after that it when to Onyx. Onyx wasn’t split up into tiers, but instead just showed you your MMR. So it’d be Onyx 1716 or whatever. Onyx was pretty large so you were still able to reach it but it was still difficult. And then if you got high enough into Onyx, you’d hit the top 200 which was Champ. The highest I got in any playlist was Champ 93. I think it’s a pretty good way of doing it.

[@HeadhunterKev96]

I don't really care for the problems of the top 0.5%.

[@TeKaMOTO]

Exactly. They claim they don't feel motivated to play the game, yet they're in the top 0,7% of the world with 200 hours played in the last 2 weeks and +5000 hours on record. Something's not adding up.

[@TSORides]

TeKaMOTO once I hit GC I lost all motivation to get better at the game cause I already hit my dream rank if that makes sense, and it took me 2,400 hours to hit it

[@TeKaMOTO]

@@TSORides Time for a new dream then I suppose.

[@TSORides]

TeKaMOTO new dream is to get a smurf and hit Gold rank

[@TeKaMOTO]

@@TSORides And then rank it up to GC so that we can have this "too many GCs" conversation once more next season? :D

[@TheMixCurator]

When you seem the MMR distribution between low GCs and the top 100 players, there's a 500/700 point difference. Same as a GC to Diamond player. Surely the GC ranks should also have 3 divisions (GC tier 1, 2 and 3), then a Grand Master rank for the top top tier?

[@caseydupre5376]

I like that idea

[@erniebarguckle]

I play at 20-45fps so it’s nearly impossible for me to reach gc I was wondering if you could study what problems come with lag

[@ChillyBillyBurnFire1]

Aydog Same. I’ve heard people climbing like 2 ranks on average immediately after switching from console to pc. Makes me wonder as a current c3 on ps4...

[@blazeqwerty4012]

Tom Vuylsteke ye im switching from xbox to pc ... wanna see if I can hit mid tier gc mmr

[@erniebarguckle]

What I’m thinking is I can go up 3-4 ranks cause man my computer is garbage

[@blazeqwerty4012]

Aydog man xbox stays around 60 FPS all game 20-30 would be super noticeable lol .

[@erniebarguckle]

@@blazeqwerty4012 yeahh. ;-;

[@Kahshi]

I personally think that rank shows more than just how good you are at the game. It shows how much time you’ve put into the game and so what if the number of grand champs keep rising, even within that tank there is still a gap between players. For instance someone who just hit grand champ in my opinion is not actually a gc yet because it shows that they have the potential to be that rank rather than actually maintain it. However the players will get better so it only makes sense that the number of gc players is going to increase. For me I don’t look at gc as just one rank I look at is as high gc and low gc players. You can agree or not but the fact is there is huge skill gap even in gc from someone who’s just hitting it versus a player who’s 1800 or higher. There have been people playing this game for a long time and it only makes sense that the amount of players who hit gc is going to go up. The conversation changes however when you get people who have alt accounts hitting gc on those orange even carrying their friends to gc, but that’s a topic for another time. *this is my opinion so you don’t have to agree*

[@GamerDan127]

I also think a hard reset would help cause a lot of C2 players end up getting high C3 at start of season due to the soft reset while some 2000 mmm players would get the same rank and it just causes fucked up matchmaking , most of the time C2 / C3 / GC have players with a wide range of skills and it causes very unbalanced games , myself finding it harder to rank up in C2/C3 mid way through season because the skill diversity in these ranks causes unbalanced matchmaking and I find ranking up in 1600 easier in the sense of a more consistent manor I’m not losing 0-8 one game and wining 6-1 the other , but yeah more ranks should be added along with a hard reset and a longer season , also find it hypocritical when some and I mean some people complain about how some of there team mates or so much shitter than others and a big reason for that is cause they boost their “friends” or people for some “reward” lol

[@TeKaMOTO]

So you'd prefer to have matches with a range of players between bronze-RLCS playing in the same lobbies for months?

[@GamerDan127]

TeKaMOTO yeah cause the good teams will easily beat the shitters and after it’s done once most of the bronze will be very low and it will be hard for them to rank up

[@NitramDjOfficial]

One thing i would like to comment on adding a new rank between C3 and GC like you showed. The problem I see is that right now GCs are being "Softly resetted" at 1200MMR. That would have to change if, lets say, we have a new rank in between which means that if the soft reset will be even softer they would end the season at an even higher mmr, way more than only 2400.

[@Adeus555]

I see it now, that guy that has been grinding C2-3 for a couple years and hes finally on the tip, then boom! We just added 2 more diamond ranks and 2 more champion ranks. ENJOY!

[@matteodonato3918]

I kind of agree to the premises, to me (currently d3, grinding for c1 in 2v2, don't play 3v3 much) the "below gc" ranking looks kinda fine, if we decide to agree on the mmr-based ranking system, even tho i'd say that this way of sorting ranks has some downsides. My problem ranking up right now is that my playstyle consists in creating space/opportunities for my mates, rather than hardcarrying the match. I'm experiencing this weird situation where if i play with randoms against diamonds i just lose and rank down (done d3 -> d1 three times by now) cause my mates don't pick those opportunities i create (and don't really create as much for me to grab), whereas when i play with higher mmr mates (partying with c1-c2s against c1-c2s parties) we end up winning most of the games and i end up mvp by far in more than half of them. This feels kind of discouraging i should say, it's so weird winning in c1-c2 while losing in d2. I might lose something about my playstyle that makes me lose in dia, but still. I have no idea how to fix this issue, and i believe diamond is the critical mmr range where this happens, going from p1 to d1 was quite easy, putting in the work was enough to go up effortlessly. For the "over gc" problem, my take would be to create incremental subranks of gc, say every 100-150mmr, that don't have a limit. Getting 10 wins in a rank gives a final title like "season 14 grand champ y". This way, there would still be no upper bound, but there'd be a differentiation between 1400s and 2400s, cause one would be like gc1 (don't recall where the gc threshold is) and the other gc7 or such. OR, you could have like c1->c5, gc1->gc5, and then super gc over 2000 or so, also adding some top100, top50 and top10 rewards BUT, being the gcs roughly 1% of the players, you'll either get longer queues, or more evident matchmaking unbalance (which you can see anyway with bakkes) I feel like the "problem" for developers in adding more ranks, therefore rewards, is that you need to provide more items, which makes the amount of work from the cosmetics team scale up, even tho adding a new colourway of the same item + a title doesn't look as a huge job to pull off Another problem is that the over-gc population is 1% of the player base, and probably no more that 1-5% of the game income, so i feel they will never get the attention they need from the developers (also they usually play minimalist cars so i don't think they give a shit about having more items/rewards, they probably contribute way less to the income than we believe)

[@raulr4721]

First, you can't mesure skill cause it has so many variables, so MMR system actually mesures the impact you have in a match. Which can be so many different things, so from there you can see that the issue of "same rank but different skill" is not exactly wrong but also not quite valid. Actually if you make a video on MMR would be pretty useful to understand why this happens and why at the top (1900 or so) each MMR point is in fact harder to get. Which is one of the reasons (I would say the principal reason) for this gap. But taking that into account, adding more ranks might feel bad for almost every non GC player, not only casuals, because even if the MMR hasn't changed, there would be "more work" to get there. Also the % is actually pretty useful, cause it shows how gamers play your game. How the playerbase has being evolving since it came out, you can see how is stretching. So when you have a 1% on GC even if they seem bad compared to the pros, that 1% is top of your game, they are "good" in the game standards. That's why I think if you want to trick the player base to add more ranks, you would need a rebranding of the ranks while you add them. Cause only adding them will create some sort of caos and players might feel cheated. Or add modifications for the GC on the top MMR, could even be the same icon but maybe a pin on the icon which indicates the "GC tier" you are in. Which is like having GC 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. But more visually appealing. I still don't think it is as big as an issue because of the way an MMR system works, its like an expected downside to any ranking system but hey, its a good topic and you're take on it was pretty well explained.

[@lefti9963]

Imo the ranking system has no problems for over 99% of people are not GC so it’s literally

[@vincentstein2142]

If we are taking the game developer's perspective into account, why would they create more rewards/ranks for just 0.77% of players who have already proven themselves to be motivated to play the game the most out of the playerbase? They are a business and that has very low returns on investment if any. It makes much more sense to work on ways to bring in more new players, or to get players who don't play as much to play more so that there is a higher likelihood of them buying items. This is why I don't see the developers adding new ranks above GC, unless it has something to do with the highest ranks, as those come with exposure from the pro scene e.g. giving out titles to multiple world champs.

[@connorbest5905]

Because one of the easiest ways to draw more people to the game is to create more content and the top .77% are the people who create the most content. If you had all the pros grinding ranked like crazy in all the game modes at the end of the season to get a top 100 title/rewards, then Psyonix would get a ton of extra content and promotion of RL for free. So it would actually be a very good return on investment, because this change would require no money and minimal effort from Psyonix.

[@vincentstein2142]

@@connorbest5905 I completely agree with making rewards for the top 100, just not for every few hundred points up from GC, which to be fair I mentioned at the end of my original post. Sorry if it was unclear, when I say highest ranks I mean top 100.

[@milobrunelle8935]

the red grand champ logo looked badass!! Guys idk what it changes for you if you are far from gc. Just know having nothing to grind for is really hard

[@unseen9661]

They should add a rank before bronze...; wood. XD ;)

[@isk8gaming986]

Or copper like r6

[@loobkoob]

Expand the leaderboards so they display everyone who is in Grand Champ (so if there are 492 GCs in 1v1 then show the top 492 on the 1v1 leaderboard, for instance). Then edit the GC badge so it shows players' ladder ranks. Add some extra flair or a new badge for top 100 players, and again for top 10 players. It'll provide motivation and a way to track progress through GC for those that want it, but won't screw up the rank system for those who like it as it is.

[@25NN25]

what about dynamically adjusting the rank distribution based on the mmr of the top 500 or so players, essentially hard capping the number of GCs to 500 and going down to bronze I from there in more or less equally sized steps? maybe you could counteract the ranks getting pushed too far by capping bronze I to the lowest 500 players too. basically a linear distribution between the best and worst players

[@fink6722]

You realize 100s of thousands of people play the game right? to limit gc and bronze to 500 players each would never work

[@25NN25]

you realize it was a suggestion for a concept, not set in stone numbers right? presenting a fully fleshed out and flawless system in the comments would never work

[@Newtonfyed]

Just fix it lol!

[@NigraXXL]

Elo decay at the top seems ok for combating inflation, but what would be the issue to implement a percentage based system? No matter how many players you get, the playerbase will always follow a bell curve and you can distribute the ranks along it, rather than adding extra divisions or whatever. You can have a "placement" grace period of x days instead of x matches, so once you have had sufficient people playing games you can lay the curve out and rank everyone who has played at least the current amount of games requiried for placement.

[@KarlwithaC]

I'd love to know how many players are actually above that 1700 mmr level. I would guess >5000. Does it make sense to make a whole new rank for just 5000 people that 99.999% of the playerbase will never dream of reaching so that those guys feel even more special about themselves? Do you really need a special little badge of validation to make you feel like you're good at the game?

[@TeKaMOTO]

Spot on.

[@TheKevKat]

Yes I do, and why do you care.

[@Whalebelly2239]

I would love a video on matchmaking and mmr, and how searching in a party with different mmr's affect the matchmaking. Your content is amazing dude, thanks for always being so thorough and true with your data.

[@Nagim-d3z]

The solution I like the most is different leagues inside of GC, so everyone that's entry level GC will stay GC and won't be demoted, while the high level GCs get their own league/(mini)rank. It could be every 100 mmr, and they get their own rewards, and the logo could be in different colours instead of just purple. I know I explained this concept really awfully, but I hope I got the point across at least.

[@CreedBratton2234]

I dont think you're wrong, but most people at GC usually have bakkesmod and have their MMR as an incentive. Maybe one or two more ranks would be good, but people like myself who are on the low end of GC and have very nearly hit their skill ceiling whilst putting thousands of hours in the game already, i dunno, i feel like it'd just turn me off, especially if I knew those ranks for me were unatainable. I dont think thats being selfish, I think more ranks would be good, but more for the best of the best. That way it wouldn't take away from the GC achievement, but would give the top 0.01% something ingame to go for. GC whether its 1% or 0.1% of players is a very difficult rank to achieve for most, and once you get there MMR is what matters to you. You put a good argument forward though, great vid! Edit: The "number next to the rank for every 100mmr gained" is a great idea, wouldnt take away the feeling of GC either.

[@airun91]

GC already shows you your MMR, so bakkesmod really is useless after GC

[@elclashh209]

Don't you think it'd be dope to have another rank to grind for after GC? That way you're not GC for the next several seasons over and over again til u get bored?

[@semme01]

I think we should all keep in mind, that being several wins into GC is quite the achievement. The air is so thin up there and depending on the vulnerability of your consistency that you might be a 1600 player but you play like a 1500 player for several days, and then you play like a 1700 player for several days and then you end up being there all burnt out at 1600 again and starting to lose anyway cause you feel stuck or whatever. I achieved GC in Season 13 but the Rank Distribution Chart completely comfirms what my thoughts were at that time. I surely did improve. But I never felt like a GC. I hit it in 3s and 2s. I hit it though the moment when Top 100 players moved up from 2200 to 2400, which I just dont understand why that happens so often during the seasons that all of a sudden within a week the top hundred move up a notch. It has so be something with the system. As if psyonix gives relatively more points to people who win at the top. IMHO this 2400 MMR Peak obviously made space and created a vaccum for 1800 players to move up to 2000. for 1600 players to move up to 1800 and ultimately to make me - a consistent C3 - to barely get my rewards during a 2 week period where I was unbelievably motivated. For me. This doesnt feel like I hit GC. I only hit GC when every other higher player moved up. Its a joke. The fact that still not many people in my friend list made their way up to the rank that they had proves to me, that the situation of the Highest players hammering down on c3s putting them back to c2, and them putting them back to c1 should be stronger. the system should be designed to avoid those lonley open deserts of c2-low GC, where everything is possible if you have just the right flow every moment. We should also keep in mind that the higher a player is the more likely he has smurfs and often more then one, which means a high gc smurfs at low gc or c3 distorting the system anyways. I would like to have GC back to 0.3 percent and not 0.7. on the other hand. I could just play solo 3s, cause that would represent better my rank.

[@coopersmith4592]

I really wish psyonix would give this issue more attention. After hitting GC in season 9, I've seen I've just been sort of playing the game to play. Not much improvement really. After reaching 1800 mmr last season, I still felt like there was no point behind what I was doing. I know there are more issues than just adding new ranks, but I think gcs that want to keep playing need something to motivate them to have the top 100 more in sight. I know rank doesnt matter, but for me it motivated me to keep getting better a whole lot better than just a number. Thanks for a great video! Hopefully psyonix can recognize this as an issue regardless of the percentage of players being fixed. A problem is a problem, which means it need to be fixed. Not to mention we are talking about the most loyal player base of everyone, considering the amount of time it take to reach gc.

[@isaachass6159]

My biggest thing with rank and achievement has more to do with the fact that some players likely will plateau at a certain rank be it that they don't have enough time to put in in order to grind to the top, or for some reason they literally can't. Linkuru mentioned in a video a while ago a system that gives players the opportunity to earn season titles based on metrics other than MMR I think this would be a fun way to get the player base more involved and also help them to achieve something. The biggest issue with rank is that it's so subjective as to who is better at certain ranks or what even determines better. Pure mechanical ability? Pathing? Boost management? Reactive thinking? Proactive thinking? Obviously all of these go into making someone better but if two different players are skilled in 3 areas different from each other, how do you determine better?

[@matts5247]

It’s so weird because I just barrrely squeezed c1 w season rewards two seasons ago solo q’ing. I am now diamond 3 div 4 however am way better than I was and have been playing consistently since then. What it seems like is just that people are getting better and c1 3s is getting more saturated with a wider range of skill/play type players. For example when I got c1 two seasons ago the average high d3 all played pretty similar and solo Qing was easy to adapt to constantly changing teams. It’s the same problem that I remember when I was plat where 1 team could barely get touches and the next have champ mechanics but just chase literally entire time then the next team seem to think corona virus is on their side of field bc of the open nets they giving up then next team vice versa and No one challenges right and is impossible to read but everyone sits back. My point is obviously in champ there are different examples, like your c3 2s guys who are stuck at d3 because they play like passing is the equivalent of giving up a goal and just keep trying to ball a fluid 3 man well spaced rotation which just isn’t going to happen more than they are gonna take that ball and score since the mid guy is now out of position bc he never got his pass and the c3 cowboy who has no Boost and Is deep and then it’s 3v1 for 5 sec and 3v2 for another 5 sec after That’s just one example but it’s very hard to win in high level 3s when you have even one tm8 who doesn’t imbed himself into the teams rotation/positioning. Just one guy who does something a little different positioning wise and the other two guys rotation is going to assume that guy just f’d up and when they realize that no he just plays unusually for whatever reason like he always plays with same people or doesn’t play 3s and That’s a loss vs two evenly balanced teams as far as overall skill goes. I notice though like c3+ 3s players are able to do something which seems like witchcraft given the 60 days I’ve spent ingame without this muscle memory ability. They can somehow intuitively know within 30 seconds if one tm8 plays weird and the other 2 guys completely rework their rotation (once again just inherently to the point that even diamond skill players probably wouldn’t even notice) where they cut rotation, stay back or cheat up to fill in for the other guys missed positioning. And I don’t mean like in a smurf sense where you play with lower levels and you don’t trust their speed or whatever and so you just hop right front of them so that team doesn’t lose challenge. I mean they do it in a way where they turn that guys missed rotation into him Being back in the right spot without Him even realizing it so there is still good field coverage. I know I’m rambling at this point but I’d like someone else to weigh I’m on why gc gets easier but c1 gets much harder for last two seasons at least and is my observation the reason why? I feel like there has to be more to it. And before someone says that I’m probably just grinding comp and neglecting training and the Fundamentals... not true. I am Undoubtedly a better player in every facet of gameplay (that I am aware of)

[@pulga1445]

I am of that tiny percentage that has 5k hours and does not get motivated in ranked years ago. I managed to get grand champion in season 3 and from that moment until now I have always done it easily. The others may not care if we get bored of playing for so long or not, but it has happened to me that I have achieved top 100 in many seasons and even so there are 1515 mmr or top 1 in the world I still have the same reward or recognition that others. I also think that granting a title with your position number in the top 100 table would be a good option, adding more ranks that little players would not affect anything but it would benefit us. Talking about the mmr system it is very annoying sincerely, how can I have 1900 mmr points and that there is someone on my side 1700 who cannot rotate properly? maybe he plays as a grand champion but not as a 1700, I don't know if he can explain I would like to discuss this as long as it is with respect

[@TheKevKat]

Not quite in the same boat as you, but almost. I barely got gc in season 6 since playing from season 2-3ish, I know it seems crazy to get GC after only playing for 4 seasons, and my highest is only 1860, which is like 350 from gc, that's ridiculous, how does it take what now like 7 seasons to get there??? It gets so much harder the more time you put into it and frankly there needs to be a change, I've wanted to go pro, but in order to do that I have to learn near perfect consistency and it's incredibly fucking hard when the motivation you have is to get to GC and go higher up and continually get matched with people that are lower than you, then you get matched with pros and lose because you have no practice against that and it restarts, I know this may have been jumbled and kind of ranty but I'm on mobile so excuse it lol. All I'm trying to say the difference between GC level play and pro level play is is unbelievably bigger than people think and something needs to be done to it

[@yoo912]

Why not just make it so that after you hit Gc theres more ranks there for the higher mmr players. And with each new rank you get more and more rewards? Like if u were a Gc division 1 lets say all u get is the title and normal rewards but if you were a division 2 Gc, however much mmr you had equals how much credits the game gives you for free at the end of the season. And if u hit divison 3 you would also get reward drops or the ability to change the color of your rank icon to whatever u want. Then even further than that for the people in the top 300 200 etc u get a number below your Gc div 3 icon and maybe an effect surrounding your title.. Something generic like fire or ice kinda like how borders work for your normal level rank. But honestlynin my opinion the best reward they could give us would be the ability to change our primary color to white or black.. Maybe that could be a Gc div 3 specific ability? Idk but personally i would grind just for that

[@jamescollings5515]

Just a thought, imagine if there was no ranks, the game just straight up told you what number in the world you are

[@nltiro3387]

Mordhau does that as well as ranked medals

[@Zinras]

The real problem is split into 3 major points, IMO: 1) The RL community is so young in terms of player age that they don't want to organize anything themselves: See the attempted solutions like the 6-man servers and how quickly it turned into a shitshow. Basically, a ranked system cannot function around professional players because they will push the top infinitely high as time goes on. This will in turn create massive queuing issues at the top, where you can't play with your peers because they aren't online, in your region or moved on and no one has taken their spot yet in terms of MMR points. Adding ranks is thus a superficial fix that in reality will not contribute to a solution, just postpone the problem X months into the future. Adding decay and other measures will not fix this, only make the numbers seem closer than the skill gap actually is. 2) RL is just about the only community that doesn't seem to have a dedicated pro and semi-pro scene *outside* the ranked systems. You don't really see CSGO teams pub it up among the plebs because there is no point in doing so: Trashing pubs is not worthwhile experience and might actually make you worse because your opposition sucks so much you slow down yourself. Hence the old "pubstar" insult, where one can smash the pubs but not cut it for real. This is somewhat related to Point 1, as someone has to set this up behind the scenes and orgs cycle in and out too frequently to handle it. There's also the side issue of "skill" not being well defined, as you can be complete garbage at relatively basic things and still make it far. I never learned to dribble, do anything on walls, or even shoot that well but was still comfortably in the top 2% of players in season 3 or 4 because I had a bit of awareness and could pass the ball. Someone like me probably shouldn't be much higher than top 10% with such a lacking skillset but that's what team-based games with no roles allow you to do. 1 or 2 good skills > decent all round skills until you get well into champ and maybe even GC these days. 3) Related to Point 2, Psyonix themselves are FAR too strict on the professional side of things, never allowing any real tournaments outside their control and strictly limiting the potential for a proper competitive environment. It's beyond stupid the the entire pro scene has to revolve around ~20 teams on a continent with some 750 million people (Europe) and it isn't a financially viable career if you don't finish in the top 5 of RLCS every single time (eg. getting your org enough exposure to pay your salary and decent prize money) for a large part of the continent. If you get a part time job in much of Northern Europe, you will earn more in a year than a top RLRS player and bottom RLCS players. This trend only increases as time goes on, where even working full time in the lowest paid jobs outpaces pro players salaries if you aren't at the very top and can supplement income with streaming and the few extra invitational tournies Psyonix allow. Many top tier players simply lack any kind of reason to keep playing once they're a bit out of their teens because spending even a couple of years on a non-uni education will give you enough of a salary boost to leave Rocket League money in the dust as far as the average pro goes. Bonus round: As a sidenote, it took 3-4 years for pros in general to bother streaming much or build a community despite the stupidly high popularity of the game, which is another way players hurt their income. It sort of ties back into Point 1 with player age, since being a pro is pretty serious money if you're 16-20 with mom and dad paying most bills but quickly starts looking bad once you're 24+ and have a real job (YMMW depending on region). A thousand viewer twitch stream can under the right conditions be a full time job on its own in terms of pay through subs, donos and sponsors, which would be how you *should* keep the career going past your teens in such a limited environment. Tl;dr: Ranked can never replace a real scrim scene and that's what RL needs as a whole. However, it's difficult to sustain with extremely limited pro space due to Psyonix' insane power trip. The fix to ranked is booting anyone even near RLRS potential out of it completely and letting the "casuals" climb the ranks until they in turn can form real teams and go into the scrim scene and climb the ranks there. Playing versus common players, even fairly good ones, is a no-go as a real pro because they suck in comparison. You have managers, coaches, orgs and so forth at your disposal and 24 hours per day to play, while they have school, jobs and training packs to improve. It cannot and never will be a good idea to mix the two long term. An ideal pro route should probably look something like this: Grind to GC -> Form a team -> Grind the scrim scene and play qualifiers to get the necessary skill and recognition -> Play smaller tournaments that Psyonix don't currently allow while trying to qualify for larger tournies they also don't allow -> RLRS with side tournies -> RLCS/other top tournies.

[@anthonyjunior810]

Siege did a good job after adding champion rank they also added extra copper bronze and silver ranks because at one point it was an extreme goal to get 5k mmr. Apex also did a good job with a rank shuffle adding masters which is what predator used to be and they made predator top 500 players only which means you could lose it without even playing it. I think a hybrid of these methods would work with rocket league. Add extra ranks at the bottom in bronze and silver pushing the higher ranks up and then making gc top whatever number with a number on their badge of placement

[@phantomghoti2398]

One of the best things about rocket league is that there is basically no skill ceiling. There is always something new to learn and perfect. But thats also why we have such a big gap in skill in gc.

[@Westy1308]

The ranked system in rocket league is a great default ranked system and is set out to be visuals for the standard player. When it comes down to it it's just visuals though, ranks arbitrarily mean nothing, the objective of ranking up is to be better than your opponents, you do this by being better than them in play, not in rank. So for standard players the ranked system is good because it gives generally a rough estimate of your skill level, to say everyone is worse than you at a lower rank and everyone is better at a higher rank is just preposterous, no one at any rank aside from high GC is nearly consistent enough in their play for that to be accurate, most peoples play is actually better described by a range surrounding the rank visual that they have to make room for their bad games and the ones where they pop off. So the ranked system is actually a great system in my mind for the standard players to show them roughly their skill group. For the more die hard players, GCs, the ranked system does change and it does begin to show you your MMR as a number, and most people at GC do care about this number, so you still know your rough skill rating and you can always set out goals such as 1600, 1700, 2k. This is something most GCs do and just because the visual rank streches out over 900 mmr does not mean once achieving GC, you at 1500 is gonna be playing 2k mmr consistently, you're still playing people around your mmr, and now that you're GC your mmr is shown and you know your mmr. In the arguments made in the video it sounded like you were saying once you peak on the visual rank leaderboard everyone loses the will power to try to rank up because there's nothing left to achieve, but most GCs you encounter will tell you "once you reach GC that's when the real grind begins" because they always want to reach that next skill group of GC represented by mmr. I've played multiple esports with ranked system and I have to say of all of them, I enjoy rocket leagues the most. The visual ranks are a great thing for the standard players to see and to try to achieve new highs, and for the die hards, the pros, and the semi pros of the game they nailed it too by showing the mmr rating for them and giving them something to achieve and grind for too. In my mind though in any game you play, the visuals just don't matter, the only thing that matters is that you're better than your opponent and that should always be your goal, be better than the opponent.

[@darksinthe]

The only compromise I can come up with to keep GC as the top rank without really splitting it up, and making it tangible, is having it still called GC, the name doesnt change, but perhaps the color of the logo OR just the color of the diamond in the middle of the logo changes. 1510-1650 = white diamond/logo, 1651-1799 = purple, 1800-1950 = Red. Or something of that nature

[@Purlox]

I think a simple way to solve the issue would be to add an infinite number of divisions to GC. This would mean that each 100 points or so would be a single division. This gives players a new goal to work towards even after they have reached GC. It also means there is no The highest rank, so this probably won't repeat few years down the line when too many players get better at the game. It also clearly distinguishes people at the top and the bottom of GC. The only downside is that you normally can't see divisions of other players, which some people might not like, but that could be fixed by adding a Division number over the GC icon or maybe next to it, if people really want it.

[@The_Cobb]

I think that implementing colored GC emblems corresponding to the players MMR would be an easy fix for demotivated players. It would probably go in increments of 100; obviously the first one would be the regular gc emblem, the next one would be a different color, and so on. By giving the players colored GC emblems it would allow for everyone to achieve something tangible without going through the complicated process of adding or shuffling ranks. This may not be the best solution but I feel like having a way to show your mmr in a way that’s not just a number will help motivate people who already reached GC. Titles, rewards, banners, etc are all different ways people could be incentivized to continue playing and care about their mmr past GC.

[@unlock-all-mods507]

Me as a 1700 gc totally agree with you. The skill gap in gc is just rediculous. I actually had exact the same ideas to fix this issue. Keep up the great content man !

[@bandsbb]

psyonix/ epic games needs to see this video

[@die.kontentkreatur]

There is a really easy solution to this, which no one speaks of: Don't make GC MMR-bound, but a consistent number. Like something between top 1.000-10.000 being GC. Let all GCs see their place on the leaderboard and make custom titles for top 10k, 5k, 1k, 500, 100, 10 & 1 At the start of the season GC is still MMR-bound and at the point for example 1k GCs are in there, it gets only top 1k players Maybe even kinda rework ch3, because depending on the variables many low GCs would fall back into it aka give it a wiiiiide mmr range

[@MrWastedtalent34]

I'm halfway through the video and I have to say that your idea to add more ranks doesn't address the issues at hand with this game. It doesn't matter what rank you are concerning the rest of my post but I'll use myself as the example; Champ 3 div 4 past 3 seasons in both 2's and 3's (although i personally only ever queue 2's or 3's very rarely both and i never quit out of any game.. yes im one of those people that likes to play better people so i get better). The pace increase from champ 3 to GC is keeping me from reaching it due to me not playing/practicing as much as I should be to obtain that rank. Aside from the obvious practicing of mechanics like hitting the ball at fast paces in awkward positions, i.e both backboards, ceiling shots, pre-jump redirections, advanced passing, Proper spacing (not crowding teammates ever no matter how much they whiff) Proper Rotating always adjusting for teammates pace changes and not cutting people out of rotation. These are all things that will directly improve in-game chemistry at higher levels. This is still not touching the issues with this game which i'll get into now; 1. Unranked is cancerous and needs punishment just like ranked modes, no high level player can warm up in unranked due to one or more people quitting 10 seconds into a game when someone scores and the match falls apart, Ive had days where it goes 5-8 games in a row like this. As if joining another game they will then quit again when someone scores first is going to make them better in any way , But there is no consequence for it so they continue practicing bad habits that do in fact extend to people raging out of ranked games still as well out of attitude/habit. 2. Since higher level players have no way to warm up for pacing other than individual training in free play which its obvious majority of people do not practice good habits as much as they practice bad habits, which also spills into ranked because most of these people don't ever warm up, they launch the game and immediately launch into a ranked mode, which is where most of the issues come to light. 2b. You join into a ranked game and you don't know if your teammate is playing their 20th game in a row, or if they're playing their 1st game in a month, or if they have both 2's and 3's queued so they keep cutting rotation in 3's thinking they're playing 2's, or they main 1's and have to ball chase the entire game "cause they're better than everyone else". Then you get teammates who change their spacing when u miss the ball even just once in a game and blame the guy that missed once that they are out of position for the rest of the game. The game itself and the ranks itself are the least of the problems here. Matchmaking itself is the biggest issue and prior to this pandemic RL was lucky to have 240,000 ppl playing at peak time in a day, its not exactly matchmaking friendly when its matching for a "hard rank" and not considering how much time people have spent playing in games already that day. If you played 10+ games and only get matched with other people who played 10+ games everyone is warmed up and on the same page, even if they've never played together before. Then you get into matchmaking with the hundreds of thousands of extra players returning to the game due to the pandemic and now people with 80+ hrs in the past 2 weeks are getting matched with people with 2 hrs in the past 2 weeks and its literally impossible for them to be on the same page even though technically they can achieve the similar rank. TL:DR - ITS A FIVE MINUTE GAME!!!!! IF YOU CANT PLAY THE FULL GAME IN UNRANKED OR RANKED DONT QUEUE AT ALL - UNRANKED NEEDS PUNISHMENT FOR QUITTING TOO!!

[@reverbav]

An idea can be that psyonix just divides GC in ranks like the 6man discord server does it but just for GC because well every other rank doesn't need a change.

[@Itz_Hyde]

I used to play a lot of runescape. They had leaderboards for pretty much everything and although I only reached top 250 in something on a release date (Dungeoneering) due to being off school that day (12 April 2010) I still used to get satisfaction from climbing the leaderboards overtime, especially when seeing where I ended up relative to the rest of the player population after I Maxed each of my levels.

[@milhousekid]

A few further thoughts on the subject. I think the absolute main issue right now is that the proportions (as a %) of players in GC are going up every season. This means that every season more players are getting to GC, which it makes absolutely no sense if we want a rank to be a reflection of skill level relative to other players. I don't know exactly why the proportion of players in GC does increase to be honest... It seems to me like the Mmr pool is increasing every season and this is causing it.. but I don't have a good theory to back that up. With this in mind, adding more ranks above GC will do nothing to address the issue, but only prolong the time until the next highest rank inflates enough that people complain again. Similarly a hard reset is only prolonging the time for the rank system to get messed up again. These are all short term issues that do nothing to address the gradual change in distributions that happen over the seasons. What we need is some system that keeps the proportions of players relatively consistent from season to season. If i'm correct, then the solution IMO is to implement some average mmr and make sure when the season starts the players' mmr is always balanced around the average. It seems to me like that average is increasing every season, so perhaps the soft reset needs to adjust mmrs a bit more aggressively to stop it increasing every season. Interesting to hear other peoples thoughts on whether this sounds plausible or not. I'm basing it on observed behaviour and end of season stats, and this is my best theory.

[@milhousekid]

Source here btw docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1q6oI-Ttc2cEJkbf-4ltGu3zHUY5OhXvBqowRzluPyu4/edit#gid=0 GC has gone from 0.2% => 0.8% . So 4 times as many GCS ...

[@LukeTCC]

i feel like the current ranking system is decent, but could be improved. as you said, a low gc will be much worse at the game than a high gc, but they technically have the same rank. i feel like this is something that is just going to be a thing, and adding ranked wont do much. however, i feel like adding a single extra rank would be best. This added rank wouldn't be a "get this much mmr and rank up" kind of thing. This new rank would be given to the top 100 players. This is similar to overwatch. they have a top rank that is based on mmr, but the top 500 players with the highest skill rating will get their own unique rank. this will make it so that the community doesn't just get too good at the game and floods that rank. it will forever be a symbol of the best of the best players, and only a set amount of players can get it. I think this would both add something to shoot for even after gc, and will never get flooded by too many players who have all just gotten really good.

[@gauntletphilosophy]

So one solution I can think of is that of a game called clash Royale(they did mess up some stuff but not talking bout that) Once you hit highest “Arena” 4000 “trophies” you can continue on and on but at the end of the season your trophies reset at a half scale so 5000 trophies at the end of a season means 4500 at the beginning of next season ( disregard how you can’t drop arena and that you get small prizes) TL:DR - whatever your mmr at end of season take half of what’s over GC level

[@will_leslie]

GC div1 - 1515 GC div2 - 1600 GC div3 - 1700 And so on until top 100 mmr

[@TeKaMOTO]

That's it! They're already in the game for every other rank so this would be the simplest way to do it with the least effect on things.

[@alecschneider9696]

Ranks in most competitive games generally correspond to standard deviations of the player base. Rocket league should therefore use these percentiles for its ranks (and update the MMR distribution based on these percentiles once every soft reset or something): Bronze (

[@a-v-k]

- Low GC players need more ranks to stay strongly motivated - imaging say "Star" rating. - High GC players also need more ranks to stay motivated - current GC does not mean much at that stage. I feel that GC is the way it is because otherwise with more ranks after current GC, people of very different high ranks would have to play against each other. Or they would need to wait even longer to find someone of their rank. A solution for that would be if Psyonix introduced really skilled bots.

[@psyneur9182]

Matchmaking is based on MMR, not rank. So dividing GC into ranks will not affect how matchmaking groups players.

[@legitgamer287]

In my opinion, as a 2k mmr player that has around 5k hours, it would be nice to see more ranks above gc. However as the majority of the player base is not 2k mmr it makes sense why the devs wouldn’t implement this change. It would be nice to see some type of ranked team modes that could be used for rlrs quals and other tourneys.

[@Encysted]

I'd love a video about rank inflation, especially if it has comparisons to other games. It'd be a longer script, but if someone's clicking on a video with "rank inflation" in it, they're probably going to stick around for a broader perspective.

[@invo3397]

A great way to deal with inflation is to have the highest ranks based on leaderboard ranking. For example, "Ultra GC" could be the top 200 players and GC could be the top 2000 players. Instead of displaying mmr on the scoreboard when one reaches GC, it could instead display one's leaderboard rank.

[@donjuan3751]

we have mmr to distinguish higher from lower gc's and you can take a certain mmr as your target. i like how it is

[@coaty6905]

excatly what i've been thinking the past 3 seasons. no need to even get rewards for 1700+ but adding GC tier 1-5 with a different logo, would make me wanna q more often. im at 1600 mmr rn, and having tier 2 GC would feel guud. 1700 tier 3 and so on.

[@wenceslay543]

Once i reach GC in the season, about 30 games, i just stop playing that gamemode and jump into 1v1 and try to get the highest i can there, feels empty to play ranked once u are at the higest rank, and the next step wich is top 100 is just too far away

[@Scorpion-bi9or]

Ah yes the GC's that go into 1s to rape the Diamond players, love it. For someone that plays mostly 1s and can barely keep C1, i constantly get players with there GC titles playing me and raping me so hard. And then they say, oh sry I hardly play 1s.... Bruh srsly

[@Dekross]

@@Scorpion-bi9or That's bullshit i have won against GCs in 1s in ranked is not that hard. You should be pleased to compete against better players than you as I am.

[@wenceslay543]

@@Scorpion-bi9or dude, lowGC on 3v3 and 2v2 equals to diamond 2 or 3 on 1v1, they are not better than you, you just get mental blocked or something

[@Cyphlix]

Many players diamond and above have multiple accounts. High brackets are already padded with duplicates

[@Teddiursayoshi]

What about us 99.3%???

[@nicolasguerin4678]

Although I understand all the arguments, I will bring another angle. As a product manager, I spend my days prioritizing what the dev team will work on. When I do that, I strive to add the most value possible to the product with each man-hour we invest into the product. When a customer suggests an improvement, I estimate the value it will add for the users AND how many users will benefit. If 1% of the users will benefit, the gain has better be humongous to justify working on it. This is the case at Psyonix as well. They evaluate the gain and the people who will experience that gain. Making a change to GC will impact only about 1% of the player base, who, btw, will complain if no change is made but probably continue playing just as much regardless. Some will say that the change is so simple it wouldn't cost much to do. I agree it's probably not very big. However, believe me, no change is as simple as it seems. All changes need to be planned, designed, implemented, tested, etc. It takes time even when its simple. And it's time that could be spent on something whose value would impact more players or generate more revenue.

[@MOOtf2]

Adding a rank between Champ and GC would be nice, like Super Champion (I vaguely recall this being the rank before GC before season 3...). If there was Super Champ 1-3, you'd get GC by hitting about 1800 mmr which is where you start seeing high level rocket league being played. And then from there, top 100 would at least be within a more reasonable distance given the motivation of a player already that dedicated to the game and improving themselves. And Super Champ isn't a crappy title at least for the low GC players who would get bumped down, maybe avoiding some extra salt 8)

[@mitchelllinley9738]

I have been GC since season 9 and i can say i feel like i have no goal to work towards. If they added a middle ground GC rank i think it would be really cool. Maybe around 1750 or 1800. the good thing about Rocket League is ranks don't effect the actual physics and mechanics of the game. I don't think pros really care about ranks below them and they shouldn't. I also don't think developers should construct the game around the pro level, as i said below the core game its self wouldn't change, and the primary focus should be keeping casual players happy to promote new players picking up the game. So in conclusion, give the top percentage of players some better goals and way to separate themselves from others at higher ranks including like you said in the video a means to show off top 100 ranks, and keep the larger population of players happy because those are the people who are buying items and watching streams. I think the pros couldn't care less about items, they're all chasing those blue titles, not the silly yellow ones that us scrubs have.