What's Wrong with Kickstarter? - A Conversation with Colin

[@RobChapmanCreativeHabits]

Only a few minutes into the video, but I have to say that it's very nice to see that Colin and Greg both understand each side of this discussion. Beyond!

[@platanopapi]

This is why I like Colin. Firm opinions backed with sensible arguments.... And he tends to take the words right out of my mouth.

[@imaman1212]

Hi Greg. We have heard small outbursts of this on beyond from Colin. It is good to hear the whole thing! Great Episode, BEYOND!

[@Ramen117]

Same when oculus got sold for 2 Billion. The developers got all the money, and if it was a regular investments with investors owning shares, they would get split of that money.

[@A_Mitchgician]

Great episode, I remember an argument/opinion like this on an Episode of Beyond quite a few months back :)

[@powerman12063]

Interested to here Colin's thoughts on Mighty No. 9.

[@Ledjar]

Glad to see new episodes of "A Conversation with Colin" =D

[@Gmen1096]

I loved that little smack Greg gave Portillo when he barked

[@10doTV]

Braff explicitly said, that he could have made the movie "the normal way", but not without giving away creative control. He said that he wanted to do this movie the way he wanted, without some big company in the back, that would look at every aspect of the film and could change it, because they think that would sell better. And that's one HUGE benefit of kickstarter - people can keep total control of their project. And that's awesome.

[@TheJoelseph6]

Very good points. I would love to see Colins idea come true. BEYOND!

[@seanmobsby1993]

I'm curious if Colin is also against pre-orders too? As that's also giving money prior to the product being finished without a guarentee of quality etc.

[@MrSquareHead1234]

My favourite series on the web. Love these!

[@tranquildestruction]

Another great episode. Thank you Colin and Greg! BEYOND!

[@PalaceOfJay]

What's Colin's opinion of the Ouya?

[@M00CHTV]

I totally agree with Colin, been saying that since I heard what kickstarter was! Good for you Colin! The Pride of Long Island!

[@Kjell14081]

My brother wanted to organize a Post-Rock/Slugdge Music Fest using Indiegogo. He didn't get much response. About a month later, a bigger festival used it, it was a huge succes, although they already have massive sponsors and support from the province as well. I think bigger names are misusing the system i think. While smaller projects don't get response or attention.

[@jgons]

New laws make crowd sourcing investment possible, just hasn't happened widespread. Once again agree a lot with Colin here.

[@GoldenGameBoy]

Greg never stop makin a conversation with Colin videos. :D

[@funkyman50]

I want a video showcasing Portillo.

[@ChainAssembly]

How is it different from Pre-ordering a video game?

[@youweechube]

Im no fan of Veronica Mars, dont know anything about it but have looked at its kickstarter page. They seem to be for the most part offering a pre order system, so the movie company knows their demand before making it. The higher tier packages also offer cool rewards for fans of the show / movie like appearing as an extra or even a line in the movie. If kickstarter projects can always give something back like this movie is doing by offering product then I dont think its a problem.

[@tmoney51691]

Yet another great episode. An idea for a future episode, A Conversation with Greg: Bacon

[@jaxon10102]

We need more conversations.

[@fotuto13]

Colin knows his shit! Beyond! And I second the "What does Square Enix have to do to be loved again" question for next episode.

[@eyeamstrongest]

how many "last of us" shirts do you have colin?

[@Triple33Threat]

That "The Last of Us" shirt is awesome. Where can I pick one up (if possible)?

[@anthonycavallaro9893]

not all products can have a great financial return, and so the nice thing about crowdfunding is that the public can attain these types of products since the companies developing them do not require typical investors. i think crowdfunding is a neat aspect of product development

[@Greez1337]

A lot of people don't know what product they want. Jim sterling made a great point using past sauce in a Jimquisition about focus testing and all that jazz. There's a difference between a bad idea getting funding, and an Idea that the masses are not brought attention to or don't know they might want. Colin makes some great points though.

[@RaiLink723]

i wanted to hear Colins thoughts on Ouya here.

[@thetom981]

Love Colin's passion

[@TheYeti1313]

What about the small independent games that do not have big names or companies behind them.

[@xOakzx]

Colin seems really smart haha. Fuckin' love these two, best series on KZbin without a doubt. Beyond!

[@ComputerHRD]

Suggestion: what does collin think of youtube trolls?

[@ThusSpokeZoroaster]

Colin...... Where can I get myself one of those snazzy-looking shirts? I need it.

[@PrimeG1984]

Notice they Didn't even mention one of the bigger kick started products the Ouya. I mean I didn't back it or anything but the idea behind it is something that definitely has a very large scale market. The fact that they couldn't get a big company to invest in Ouya shows that sometimes big companies don't always know what can sell and what can't.

[@Rev8691]

how about if you donate to a certain tier, you earn "partnership" level and make return on the profit. but if you donate towards an entry level tier, all you get is the product for free. Plus varying tiers throughout that give you bonus items with the product, and so on. overall, that seems fair to me.

[@PrimeG1984]

Some ideas on kick starter might be great ideas but the bigger companies refuse to invest in them. So this provides a way for those people to get their ideas off the ground and into production. I do agree that big time companies and individuals are taking advantage of it and that is the problem with it ANYONE can use it.

[@XagonogaX]

THIS NEEDS A MILLION VIEWS.

[@Jarethification]

In that case you're right, I just said Zach braff because he was the only rich guy doing a kickstarter I could think of. If publishers want to take away creative control then screw them but if that wasn't an issue then you could do it the way I suggested.

[@cruzer801]

best conversation with colin yet

[@MusicsMaLyfe]

Greg and Colin got so much cooler when they said they like Jericho. BEYOND!

[@btg293]

Both sides of the argument make valid points. Ultimately kickstarter is what you make of it. If you want a return on your capital there are plenty of other ventures to get involved in. This is simply for passion projects I guess. Would be nice if the investors could share in the successes though. I Enjoyed this one.

[@Sportsmaniac1322]

Lots of good points Collin. I think Kickstarter has its place, especially for the indie developers/inventors who don't have the connections needed to fund their project otherwise. That's what it was made for in the first place. Yet it's absolutely unavoidable that big companies take advantage of it, and that's its biggest problem. When developers like Peter Molyneux start using Kickstarter, there's a serious problem. That's when consumers are taken advantage off, and it needs to stop.

[@minoxknoctis5851]

Im a little late but I think the best way to run kickstarter is you fun the project and based on your investment you get a portion of the profit. This allows different projects to be funded, that may fail or succeed but its a fair market if the developers get a slight bugger share since they came up with the ideas etc...

[@BRADBROWNJR]

Great episode

[@nadrojiskool]

It cracks me up that people bring up Mighty No. 9 as an example of how Colin is wrong and/or hypocritical, especially considering the delays with the game and how Colin has said several times how he's getting worried about the game. This is, in fact, the perfect example of how Kickstarter is (in practice) a poor investment since they raised all that money to make a game which may not live up to people's expectations. Colin is, however, very, very wrong when it comes to Double Fine (in particular) as well as bigger Kickstarter projects. It's not "weird" that developers like Tim Schafer and Keiji Inafune move over to crowd-funding with the desire to have more creative freedom. Even today (some) publishers don't like the idea of a female lead in games because they feel a male lead will help the game sell more copies. It's no f*cking wonder that developers want to get as far away from that BS as quickly as possible. To a fault, Colin can be steadfast in his opinions to the point that he develops these blind spots. It's nice to feel like you're making a stand, but sometimes when doing so you can miss the big pictures. There are so many things we've gained gained from Kickstarter and it would be a shame if everybody stood their ground like Colin and none of this ever happened. I can almost guarantee that the sites just now finally appearing that actually allow you to _invest_ in projects would never have sprung into existence if not for the proliferation of crowd funding, or at least nowhere near as soon as they have. Colin may think that he is correctly speaking with his money by erring against the "poor investment", when in reality he is just strangleholding a phenomenally revolutionary form of funding/investment and saying that the market doesn't want this. If Kickstarter had come and gone, that would have been a much bigger tragedy than any of the (potential) thievery that happens therein. I'm incredibly grateful for Kickstarter for proving its value to the market and making the next generation of legitimate investment-based crowd-funding possible. "The market didn't want it", lmao. Kickstarter is the complete antithesis of that. It gives the voice of the "market" to the people, so that they can actually speak directly with their wallet, instead of leaving it in the hands of idiotic bloated businesses as middlemen who have no idea what they're doing. #FuckKonami

[@StuartDesign]

Kickstarting usually amounts to pre buying a product which can substantially reduce the risk to the product developers but in turn increases the risk to the consumer. I think pre buying is as legitimate as commissioning an artist to make a sculpture, the penalty for producing a substandard work is their reputation. I think because this is the early days of crowd funding nobody has a reputation to lose except for the established companies like double fine. Just fund those with reputations to lose

[@MafiyaKyngz]

There should be a part 2 to this about mighty #9 and the abuse of kickstarter

[@brianmarkley2845]

Next conversation: GameStop. Another great one!

[@BiggTonyStyle]

Board games on kickstarter are the only things I would even consider backing. It would have to be relevant to my interests, the rules/game board/etc already established, and I get the game when it is manufactured and released

[@domvito4728]

These are awesome, as always. :D BEYOND!!!

[@acegears117]

Just noticed the dog towards the end

[@Captenknark]

To bad there's no more Oreo Oration. That was one of my fav shows online.

[@Retrofire-47]

Greg looks generally pissed as well as Colin more so. lol

[@hydro191988]

Right on

[@richardthomas8371]

I couldn't agree more Colin! Just like every week... ; )

[@jordanclark1993]

I get what Colin is saying but I look at kick starter as a pre-order. Adding in shares and what not would confuse people and turn people away.

[@SavidgeGaming]

Best idea for a website lets kick start it!

[@gustavosanchez2246]

Colin has so strong opinions that he could be the villain in the next bioshock.

[@youngtexas210]

God, ive been waiting for this

[@alexa.4342]

Preach it Colin. You're 100% right!

[@mirado02]

Greg, you go weird on a lot of things. I approve.

[@12CylonModels]

Colin is spot on with this analysis of kickstarter

[@ralle2man2]

awesome

[@videojuegosargentina]

Love the show

[@darrenmacnally]

Wouldve liked to hear his thoughts on the new fad of 1dollar kickstarters

[@GregPivo87]

I've never used it, but from my understanding projects on Kickstarter are like a for-profit charity. You don't donate to charity expecting shares in that charity, you do it because you want to support them doing what they do. You do so voluntarily, and you do so with some reasonable expectation that that money's going to go towards what you want it to go towards, but as soon as that money leaves your hands you no longer have any control over whether or not it actually does. If you're comfortable with that, there's no reason why Kickstarter shouldn't exist or why anyone shouldn't try funding their projects through it.

[@Matunahelper]

Colin: you should make a kickstarter-like format and website JUST like you were describing. You could be a millionaire!

[@Sadvillainy]

I 100% agree with Colin. More and More people are starting to abuse it. I read about 3 weeks ago, a guy blew all of his kickstarter money, $250,000, and now he can't make the product. It's complete bullshit. I also hate when rich people use it. The investors should make profit and look over the project.

[@CmdrEdem]

I have no idea if the potential public of a product is exhausted or not during the campaign. I would say that most times it is. So there is no profit to be made after the launch. And I do believe that companies that use crowdfunding should be philanthropies, meaning that shareholders do not receive a cut from profits. That`s how I would do it. I would spend every single cent paying salaries and infrastructure to make free or almost free products.

[@Alphabass121]

This one is great guys I would totally do crowdsource investment

[@MellxDragonPrincess]

Next topic: How do you feel about the ouya and other "indie" game consoles

[@justanotheraccount]

It may well have bad marketing/support, but ask yourself, why do you need an Ouya? At the end of the day, we've known about the Ouya for a long time, and at that price point, people would be buying it if they thought it was worth it. They're not.

[@porkchopnation101]

What does Square Enix need to do to get back into Colin's good books?

[@SiskoBlue]

Colin is spot on, but Kickstarter IS a revolution. 1) It's a peitition. If enough people show a willingness to throw money at it, it's a sign to real investors that there IS a market. Things only get made based on a select few with the capital who BELIEVE there's a market. All ventures are a risk. 2) It shows that a system like the one Colin outlines could exist. It's been attempted before but as one-offs, but a site selling shares/equity instead of charity could work.

[@fausty616]

Here's an interesting, somewhat related question; how does Colin feel about preordering? Its the same concept, they take part of the price tag from you and you promise to give them the rest, all prior to the release. Therefore you have no idea what the quality of the title is. It is a little different because preorders are cancelable and such, but same concept.

[@Hstone115]

What about might no. 9? Huh Colin?

[@Hstone115]

***** Doubt it. We know how he loves that style of gameplay.

[@Hstone115]

You're right. But for argument's sake, do you think he would choose his view on economics or his taste in gaming when it comes to this one?

[@MrSquareHead1234]

That's what Colin was saying, he said it's fine for indie products but big companies take advantage of it.

[@DePietersz]

Aww yea Colin and Greg

[@VIDAMANii]

Colin should really make that sight though.. lmao..... Great Points and ideas in this vid !

[@markusblomstrand92]

Who is best at video games? Colin or Greg?

[@LPfanatic4ev]

Colin's shirt is amazing.

[@KevinJamesVideo]

There's also a considerable risk with Kickstarting a project, contrary to Colin's assertions: credibility. If someone fails to live up to their campaign, it affects their credit with the consumer and can ruin future chances of launching a project (crowd funded or otherwise). There is a strong, strong incentive to finish a project that could earn further fiscal trust or produce new revenue, so the notion that there's a "risk free" angle to crowd-funding in all situations rings bogus to me.

[@JordonVirtue]

It's a novel idea that simply needs more oversight and accountability. The idea of selling shares is a good one as well.

[@Jarethification]

I like the fact that someone gives a time link to greg hitting his dog like it's a nip slip or something and they give the wrong time, also this is a conversation with colin where he gives his opinions on topics so there is no wrong or right answer it's opinion based, this show is not called colin states the facts. You can only agree or disagree with him.

[@halbridious]

I totally understand what he's saying, and agree, though I think he had a hard time defining the issue - That if we invest we should get returns in scale with the product's success. If the product sucked, but it got made, we get the product. If the product makes BANK, we get a little piece back. I love this idea. And think that a new Investment-Sourcing Site needs to be made.

[@solidus32]

Yay! Portillo!

[@stxtch876]

Colin's got it down; the crowd investor model is a great idea. Kickstarter should be for cottage initiatives only - it sucks to see big companies abuse it in the ways he describes.

[@TheNolanStokesberry]

"here's $5 Mr Coke, make me a Coke"

[@ThePizzaboy321]

Colin should talk about his opinions on the wiiU

[@matthewstulberg1150]

I'm not a capitalist by any means, far from it in fact, but I completely agree with Colin on this, because it's exactly what's wrong with the capitalist system. If you like the product, that's great, and if you want to throw your money away on stuff then fine, but it seems like in most ways the consumer gets screwed. Colin's investment based kickstarter is a great idea, everyone can enjoy the product and reap benefits from giving their money to a company, it's a fair and more balanced system.

[@Seather17]

I said nearly everything Colin did about this to the guy who first told me about Kickstarter.

[@th1sb1tes]

The world of Pokemon,please? Next conversation

[@PrimeG1984]

I didn't say it had an impact in a meaningful way, I said it's a product that there's definitely a large market for in terms of what it's meant to do. The fact that it hasn't had an impact is more due to marketing the product than the actual need for it. To be fair as well consider this, if Valve was to make a console like this (rumors suggest they are developing some form of console) its a guarantee it would sell millions.

[@GrubNation40]

Colin's thoughts on the ending of LOST

[@justanotheraccount]

What's the need for Ouya when you have a phone/tablet? What's the need for an Ouya when you can arguably have a better gaming experience with a cheaper PS2? I understand the very very niche appeal of it, but to say that there's a large market for it in any sense is simply untrue.

[@robbey10]

If there is a small minority that wants to pay for the privilege, that is pure capitalism.

[@ElimRem]

Let's do a kickstarter to get naomi to join their conversations!

[@philpee2]

The "revolution" Colin is talking about exists Gambitious

[@zhillolonan4091]

Colin: What do you think about Enron?