What Separates Intermediate from Beginner Pianists??

[@voskresenie-]

I took lessons for about 15 years, through college, and especially my college teacher really pushed me in good ways. but I was always so focused on making measurable progress on my pieces week to week, I wouldn't allow myself room to just sit and play around with one phrase for 2 hours with no guarantee of progress. 6 months ago I started playing again after 8 years away from the instrument and I told myself I'd see how far I could get without a teacher, then find one when I hit a wall. Well, in 6 months I've made more progress than I did in 2 years of lessons, in part because I've spent more time at the piano, several hours most days compared to 60-90 mins a day, but in part because I needed to allow myself permission to be inefficient with my practice in order to learn how to be efficient. Surprise, surprise, many of the things that in college I wouldn't do because there was no guarantee of progress, I realized were actually the things that have caused me to make the most progress, often in a short burst. For example, I was struggling to get a certain arpeggio past 70bpm for sextuplets, and after literally an hour of just trying random things on one measure, I had an epiphany and within 2 minutes got the arpeggio up to 105 bpm while also making it far more fluid and even than it'd been at 70. A good teacher could have identified the problem in 30 seconds, I'm sure, but I had some sort of understanding gap in physically playing the piano that can't be taught verbally, it must be felt, and while teachers tried to explain how I can go about feeling it, with varying degrees of success, I never spent the time necessary playing around with movements and physical sensation to internalize it - I was always trying to move my hand or fingers in the way my teachers said I should, but without the fluidity one would have if they really understood the concept, rather than just attempting to force a bunch of micromovements to make my hand do the thing it was supposed to do. Watching this video was so satisfying because at the end of college, I was playing early advanced repertoire, and often could get it to come together pretty well, but I didn't have the comfort or understanding of piano I thought I should have, but couldn't really articulate exactly what was wrong. I would have maybe passed 4/7 of these. But now, years later but with only 6 months more practice, I can confidently say I am competent in all 7. I'd love to see a similar video on the difference between intermediate and advanced.

[@PianistAcademy1]

All great stuff, thanks for sharing! And yes, I will make an intermediate vs advanced set of these as well :-)

[@jerryvan8799]

This comment encapsulates me in many ways, hello Doppleganger!

[@voskresenie-]

@@PianistAcademy1 awesome, I'm looking forward to it! and thank you for the reply

[@voskresenie-]

@@jerryvan8799 say more! it's always fun reading success stories, and there might be something I could learn from yours (unless we literally are the same person, which I have considerable reason to doubt!)

[@meganellls]

Thank you for this! We need more intermediate level lessons and tips on KZbin!

[@PianistAcademy1]

More to come for sure, Megan!

[@drsofty8486]

Basically, he is saying that I am still a beginner after 10 years of practice 😞

[@josa720]

Yup! Sigh😢

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for watching, Dr Softy! What aspects are you struggling with most? It's not the amount of time practicing, but how we use our time during practice that can lead us to make significant gains very quickly.

[@JoeLinux2000]

ROTFLAMO !

[@drsofty8486]

​@@PianistAcademy1​ I had piano teachers in my childhood (45 years ago) but now (after pausing 40 years) I am completely autodidactic, which has the disadvantage to avoid uncomfortable things, such as practicing scales or music theory. I am thinking about hiring a teacher again, but I fear, that this could drain the fun from playing.

[@i.ehrenfest349]

@@drsofty8486I’m at pretty much the same position as you, except I didn’t have a teacher back then, either. Never practiced a scale in my life, but I’m wondering if that was such a good idea as I always thought it was…

[@gaugeonesteam]

I totally agree with you about different keys. Almost like learning a totally different instrument learning a different key. I'm pretty good in C, G, F, Eb, Bb, D and A, However, I'm not sure every top pianist can transpose any piece into any key at the drop of a hat. Having said that, I'm sure learning all the keys really well is a good thing.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I wouldn’t go so far as to say be able to transpose an entire piece, but absolutely to know how each key feels, how each key has a different color, and how to navigate at least the common diatonic chords in each key. Start with I, IV, and V, but later add the remaining 4 diatonic chords, the Neapolitan, a few secondary dominants etc.

[@MisterL777]

I don't understand what you mean by that. I know all chords in all keys, but I wouldn't say one feels any brighter, or heavier, or anything more than another. They are just different pitches. But that doesn't change the "color" by itself. Csus4 and C and Cmaj7 chords all have different colors, like C major and A minor keys do, but the keys of C and D major do not have instrinsically different qualities to me.

[@voskresenie-]

@@MisterL777I'll take a shot at explaining in a somewhat analytical way. There are two broad categories of difference between keys - one relates to transposition (same intervals but in different keys), the other to composition (how music is written for one key vs another). First, for someone with perfect pitch, changing the key will be a more substantial change than for someone without, and it's hopefully easy to imagine why such people view different keys as having different colors. Most people do not have perfect pitch, however, but even for them (us-including myself), I believe there is a difference. Everyone has a certain degree of 'perfect' pitch - for instance, if you play a short melody on the highest octave of the piano and then again in the lowest octave, every pianist will be able to tell which is which, so it's clear that everyone has some degree of absolute pitch. Now, the difference between C and C# in isolation might be too small for a person without perfect pitch to identify, but there may still be some unconscious awareness of a difference that affects perception. The bigger issue, though, is that C and C# have vastly different key signatures - ie C# uses lots of black keys, C uses mostly white keys (I say mostly because composers don't constrain themselves to only the 7 notes of the key they're writing in) - and playing on black keys vs white keys will inherently result in different playing, even if the same piece is transposed from C to C#, since the mechanics of playing will be different. If one transposes to G or F, which still mostly use white keys, the mechanics will be similar, but a fifth up or down is enough of a difference that even one without perfect pitch can notice it. This is all only about transpositions, though. We also need to think about how music is written for different keys. Before equal temperament, different keys were not identical in the pitch difference of the same interval, and equal temperament is a relatively new phenomenon. So most music we play for the piano was written for a different temperament, which would make the composer's choice of key more impactful. As a consequence, certain moods and styles were associated with certain keys, meaning the associations, while today (potentially) arbitrary, still exist. But even under equal temperament, the key signature plays a role in composition. Pieces are generally written in a way that is 'pianistic', ie conforming to the mechanics of the piano, and so even though one _could_ write the exact same piece in either C major or F# major, one generally wouldn't - different degrees of the scale would be used in different proportions and relationships, as would notes from outside the key, based on the key signature. Additionally, if one is writing in G major vs C major where key signatures are similar, as discussed above, the piece would have to be ~half an octave higher or lower in pitch, which has a different feel, _or_ different degrees of the scale and different chord inversions would have to be used in order to fit within the same 'pitch zone' of the piano. I hope this provides enough separate aspects that at least a couple of them will be convincing or explanatory.

[@sp1704]

When I was playing regularly in uni, I remember having "automatic" moments when i would hear something in my head, and the music would just materialize through my fingers. That. was. awesome, and I would love to get back to that place. :)

[@pamelasaunders5634]

I found this by accident after hearing a Mozart piano sonatas today on the radio that he described as for beginners so I was trying to find beginners performances as I was thinking perhaps there are some pieces that they could do as well as a more advanced player could. But I was glad to find your video and found it very relevant to my own experience and have assessed myself as almost intermediate. I can't remember section by section but I did not know the 1, 1V, V, V1 for example but having heard them could clearly hear the same progression each time in the different variations. I could also easily sing back your little melody but I am really not good at playing by ear but could have figured it out on the piano in 2 or 3 goes. I have dabbled with a lot of musical opportunities in all my almost 60 years, but piano is the one I use the most. I only ever had 10 lessons when I was 13 when we were looking after someone's piano for them and I had taught myself from a tutor book and got stuck on grade 3. But I hated the lessons. Then my daughter saw an ex demo electric grand piano and asked could we get it which we did. She taught herself and has passed her grade 8 and did music at uni and now teaches. Her first instrument was clarinet. She hated her lessons but carried on so that she could use the school clarinet to play duets with me at home. My first instrument was also clarinet. But she got her own piano at uni so I have kept the original one. I love to learn by playing lots of variety of pieces, which each have their various challenges within them. I have improved enough and learned enough chords by name that I can manage basic pieces pretty well with either reading both hands or playing the melody right hand and improvising left hand based on the chord notation. If there is no chord notation I can often figure something out but not at a sight read. Recently we got stuck at church and I was able to fill in just enough, some items better than others depending if I already knew them or not. I could not have done that 3 years ago. I know I continue to make progress e.g. some music seems relatively easy now that was a real struggle a couple of years back and I am tackling more difficult pieces not just ones that have been specially arranged, so I am definitely forward from "easy pieces", which I was enjoying but now they don't seem full enough in comparison. I love listening to radio 3 and I think that helps to develop the discernment on the listening skills. Your #7 all comes easily to me. I have a good awareness of all those points you mentioned and I love trying to get them all right and really enjoy when a piece or part becomes fluent. I have sung all my life too including in choirs so all that training will have contributed to e.g. dynamics. I have a huge collection of music to play but I can't resist picking up more when I see some I can afford mostly in charity shops. I had to buy more storage for it but I donated some of the very easy stuff now to the library as the music section is pretty woeful. I am just glad I have the opportunity to enjoy it anyway but I may well have a browse through some more of your videos now I have discovered them. Thank you for doing them :)

[@PianistAcademy1]

Wonderful stuff, thanks so much for sharing!! I also chuckle at some of the composers’ definitions of “easy” or “for beginners” because our modern definition of beginner is far from what Mozart and Chopin would have called beginner. I’m guessing the piece you heard was Mozart’s C Maj Sonata, K 545 “Sonata Facile” or the easy sonata/sonata for beginners. Ironically, today we categorize that piece as RCM level 8, which could be considered late intermediate or early advanced… and playing it at the tempo of Lang Lang or Pires would be considerably more difficult than even that. I hope you continue to enjoy the videos I have on the channel thus far! I try to add something new about once per month :-)

[@pamelasaunders5634]

Yes it was k545 played by Young-Lan Han :) And in those times piano was very much more part of an education than it is now, as an almost required accomplishment to entertain at gatherings. These days of course we use recorded music which just was not available back then. I find playing fast most difficult, of course, but getting it perfect slowly can be very satisfying too and give the piece a completely different feel. Then it can be gradually sped up. Some things I can play at about 145, but only after lots of practice. I wonder what level "raindrop" would be as It's one I particularly enjoy to play, admittedly I can't yet play it well but I can get through it. I especially love the very rumbly section with all those lovely subtle chord changes, and the way it intensifies the sound as you go through that passage. But the beginning is very beautiful too.

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

I can already do many of the intermediate level technical skills, but I seriously lack in audiation and ear recognition. And I have difficulty playing simple songs. I have an inner ear problem which gives me an excuse, but I've also made some progress. Actually, I don't mind calling myself a beginner for several more years. I've geeked out on music theory, and my piano teacher is impressed with what I am doing. And supportive in continuing on the journey. This was a good explanation and helps many of us with taking an honest assessment. Merci from western Switzerland.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Good to see you again, Lawrence! I’m glad you enjoyed the video.

[@philipmcniel4908]

I think if you have the chance, taking a basic class in solfege ear training can really be helpful for someone in your situation.

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

@@philipmcniel4908 Thanks for the suggestion.

[@usualbreak7013]

Mine is the opposite, i have good ear recognition but lower technical skill

[@1tubax]

very similar to you, and what im doing is becoming fluent in note sheet reading then trying to mess around with making simple arrangements of whatever i hear in different scales and rhythms. i think ear recognition and audiation just require time and reps, and its more of a free skill, so theres no set method to practice it, unlike technical skills in which one can make great strides quickly depending on their aptitude and method of practice.

[@bh5606]

Ah, dear, will always be a beginner.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Which of these 7 are you struggling with most?

[@bh5606]

@@PianistAcademy1 All!!

[@misericordiasdomini7782]

I am just enjoying playing, “fun” is what drives my motivation to keep playing.🎼🎵🎹🎶

[@hisky.]

​@@bh5606get a teacher and just keep learning music, you'll get out of the beginner tier veryyyy quickly

[@debbieritchie2114]

I will to

[@mytruthbekind5793]

Excellent video. I find this inspirational. Going to keep at it! It is a lifelong pursuit. Have fun playing. I am having much more fun the deeper I get!

[@e.j.grandmaison8563]

Loved the audiation skill. It was 7 AM when I was watching this and even that early, I sang it back and then played it on the piano. I teach piano on the side as I'm an elementary music teacher by day. I didn't take formal piano lessons until I was in college. Thank you for letting me know I'm on my way to advanced intermediate despite my later start. 😅

[@OtetsYazikov]

Wonderful VID! The point about keys and their scales and arpeggi is astoundingly clarifying! Once all the relations are "within and ready" in your mind and hands, you have already acquired an intimacy with the instrument that simply opens the gates to more demanding challenges!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks! You are one of the first to comment that actually "gets" that point. Most people have been incredibly confused by it, which to me means they haven't experienced that "ah ha" moment when it's like a whole new world unlocks for you.

[@quentingrand7830]

Great video Charles! So, after playing the Piano for 25 years, you confirm what I already knew about me : I'm still a beginner haha. The only point from your video I can partially achieve is the last one.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I hope that it isn’t discouraging! I bet your hands together stuff is better than you think, along with some good programming of those “automatic” techniques. If it wasn’t at least on the way, there’s no way you’d be able to play one line of Op 10 No 3, let alone the entire A section.

[@quentingrand7830]

​@@PianistAcademy1 Yes my hands together stuff might be OK. But, speaking of good programming of automatic techniques, I'm actually not able to do it at all (and will never be able to! But I'm used to it now, it's been 25 Years like that haha). Do you remember my ugly rubato in Op 10 No 3 ? It was all for compensation for my lack of "programmed automatic techniques". For example, each time I had to voice the melody, in the right hand, I needed to make a "pause" right before the first of those note from the melody line comes in. I had to do this because, as I can't program automatic techniques, I needed to 100% focus on each note to be voiced in the melody line. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to do it. But that's not discouraging me too much, because for 20+ years my Piano playing was awful. If you had asked me to play this Etude 2 years ago, I wouldn't be able to voice the melody at all! And my playing would have been very sloppy and uneven. But now, thanks to some KZbin chanel such as yours, I got a little better. And for the moment, at least I can do a descent voicing for this Etude (But at the cost of other things of course).

[@dimitrovboeleepianoduo]

Wonderful video! You explain very very well. Love how you emphasize that it's not about the repertoire. Professionals often enjoy playing 'simple' music because there's things to work on at any level of repertoire.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Yes yes, absolutely! You should check out my video called “3 Reasons You’re Never Too Good for Burgmuller Op. 100”. I think it’s hilarious how some people claim the pieces are so easy, yet… well… watch the video ;-) When I was a student I was always guilty of filling my programs with crazy difficult rep. My first grad recital was Schubert’s C minor Sonata D 958, a few Liszt opera transcriptions, and Stravinsky’s Firebird Suite. I could have enjoyed the performance much more with some “easier” stuff that was beautiful to play, rather than choose to make every note some virtuosic accomplishment. I’d never program the way I did as a student ever again!

[@dimitrovboeleepianoduo]

Haha! I'm ashamed to admit that I was guilty of that as well. In my first year conservatory my teacher gave me Cramer-Bullow etudes, but all I wanted to play was Chopin etudes! Haha so silly to think back because there's so much to learn from studying 'easier' repertoire. I'll definitely check out your Burgmulller video, sounds awesome:)@@PianistAcademy1

[@Milkiyas312]

Great video! I'm a late beginner but my ears are late intermediate because I've been practicing relative pitch for quite a while now. With the reference note, I was immediately able to play the melody on my first try! I'm also able to transpose the melody to different keys. At the moment I'm learning to recognize chord progressions.

[@johnmackey4273]

As a dyslexic musician I found this video to be very helpful. It's painful to go back to square one and start from scratch again, but necessary. I've always had great difficulty reading music, but will try to focus on what you suggest. I've subscribed and will buy your course. Many thanks😎

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks, John! Let us know how it goes!

[@kristinamusik7414]

Best explaining I ever heard. In fact the only explaining I ever heard. So I am an intermediate player, sadly enough an early intermediate player. And the reason is because so much is missing in basic knowledge. And it is hard to catch up. Thankfully enough I now have a teacher trying to fill in the gaps.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Kristina, you are not alone! One (backhanded) reason I made this video is because there is a frightening lack of ear-training taught to the typical classical student, and it can really hold them back. Of all of the advanced and ready-to-audition-for-college students I've had, even there only a few of them had any basic ear training fundamentals. Boy were they going to get an awakening during their first semester!

[@stevesutherland8247]

Looking at this video, it's done a great job of telling me what sort of level I'm at. In some respects, I'm more advanced than I thought I was, in others I'm not as far as I thought. I have to admit, though, I'd never heard of a V7 chord and I've had to look that one up. I will be adding it to my practice sessions, though. Very informative video, thank you.

Many piano students can play pieces of a certain level, but nevertheless, they are not very fluent in chords and inversions (especially more advanced chords). They need to prepare it beforehand. In my opinion this is often overlooked.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Absolutely, it’s far too often overlooked!

[@shayne881]

From a former guitarist I can say the same thing happens in my world. You'll have players who can play Bach partitas ,solfegetto and the likes and don't know what a dominant chord

[@kathleencook3060]

Excellent video. I have never heard anyone clearly articulate the difference between, Beginner and Intermediate Piano Learner. Perhaps you could mention some Piano pieces which would give examples of what a Player could be expected to perform at the different Levels. Thank you Maestro. I look forward to more Videos from you.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for watching, Kathleen! One of my favorite places to look for repertoire suggestions for various levels is the RCM (Royal Conservatory of Music) syllabus. You can download the PDF for all of the levels for free and see all of the repertoire suggestions for each. From level 8ish on the RCM scale, I also begin to cross reference with the Henle level system which doesn’t cover the early beginner and intermediate music very well, but separates out the advanced repertoire far better. For example, an RCM level 8 piece is usually about Henle level 5. But an RCM “Diploma level” (the highest possible) might be Henle level 7, 8, or 9. I hope that helps!

[@zaheedhasib]

1-yes but only on my piano, i get startled if i use other piano 2-yes on learned songs and daily practices, 3-no, currently working on it being automatic; 4-yes, can sing after hearing once, have realtive pith but not perfect; 5-yes a little bit, but would prefer much more work; 6-yes, comes very naturally to me so no credit to my practice; 7-yes, sometimes i overdo it so needs work. So a late beginner after staring piano at age 35 (now 37), no formal training before but once i hear a song i can sing it back pretty well, so gifted with that and long fingers with good spread. Anything is possible with at least 2 hours (4 pomodoros) each day. Also, one trick to get more practice is to get a very comfortable bench and invest in a real piano. My practice quality, quantity and results went a few notches up since I got the bench that you are using (thank you for that video) and since I got my C. Bechstein.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I think my favorite bit from your comment is the reference to Pomodoro Technique. Invaluable to highly productive use of time :-)

[@pasqualeb66]

I think I'm almost at the intermediate level. Due to my passion for jazz, after having studied classical music for a few years and the trumpet for the last 10 years, I have a decent ear and know the theory and functional harmony quite well. But I'm not a good performer on either the trumpet or the piano. In recent months, however, I have put away the trumpet to dedicate myself to the piano again, take a course and, thanks to the many videos on KZbin, I am starting to play again at the level where I left off but with all the technical advice and stimuli that are circulating online and they are very useful. I think I'm on the right track, better than when I was young. But it takes a long time... Thanks

[@vivacepianostudio]

May I add? Hand independence; the ability to play opposing touches (legato, staccato, slurs) and opposing dynamics (louds and softs) at the same time with each hand having the opposite task.

[@1tubax]

i think thats an early advanced, maybe very late intermediate skill, especially if playing at a high tempo.

[@vivacepianostudio]

@@1tubax Hand independence sounds harder than it is. It can be successfully taught at the elementary level.

[@1tubax]

@@vivacepianostudio yes but hand independence with opposing dynamics and touches is a huge step up from hand independence of rhythm and melody.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I think this is a great inclusion. I teach mostly adults at a variety of levels from early beginner to already holding one or more music degrees... my late beginner and early intermediate adults have a *really* hard time negotiating opposing tasks with the two hands. I've seen children "get it" quickly, within a month or two, but I've also seen adults struggle for a year or more to achieve the same. Reflecting on that, yes, I do think that hand independence as you describe should be a skill acquired by early intermediate, but knowing/realizing that the effort required to achieve such can be dramatically shifted by the current stage of brain development.

[@ST52655]

I would also add the ability to play music in all keys.

[@eddemans]

This is a great and informative video. As a returning player I find myself simultaneously at beginner, intermediate and perhaps (just brushing against) advanced level in different respects. This is a bit of a challenge because the required beginner work does not really spark joy for me. But this is very enlightening.

[@PianistAcademy1]

The point of the video is 2 fold, for me... 1) A see a ton of questions online from students asking about what rep to play and if they've played "x y z" rep then they are "x y z" level player. Neither of those really say anything about how well a student is playing, what they do or do not know, etc. A good teacher should be able to see within a few minutes what the true level of a student is and where they should focus their attention, and most times in my experience, the answer isn't in rep from the next level up, it's actually skills that were glossed over that are currently causing more trouble in practice because they weren't learned. and 2) A very high number of self-taught pianists are mis-diagnosing their level, and without guidance from a teacher, they many times don't even think about ear training as an integral part of learning an instrument. I certainly hope you didn't think the video was elitist! I strive to make this channel the very opposite of that because I completely abhor the elitist side of classical music teaching and performance!

[@eddemans]

@@PianistAcademy1No worries, I didn't think that at all. I tried not to come across as one of those people that boldly play "big boy" repertoire........ atrociously. I'm very aware that I have much catching up to do in terms of consistent and reliable hands. So I play a mix of Burgmüller/Heller/Sonatinenbuch that I still have from the old days and have a go at the slower and shorter big boy repertoire like Scriabin Op 2 No 1, very intently. The progress I feel and hear over time is very rewarding and that keeps motivation going!

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@eddemans I was reading through your initial comment again and my response... and I think that this response was one I had written for a different comment that I thought had gotten deleted!! Sorry about that, since how I responded really wasn't at all about what you had written! I think it's totally possible to be at various stages of musical development at the same time! I'd wonder if there is a way to make the beginner work more enjoyable for you... that's something I'd try to make happen if I were your teacher... how can we do more than just exercises to learn those particular concepts? Maybe you'll have some ideas of your own?

[@miguele.colonp1567]

Great video!! I’d like a video like this but between intermediates and advanced

[@PianistAcademy1]

I have put it on my list of things to do! You and a few others have also requested this :-)

[@dougnickerson]

Excellent 1) I noticed in the last two years or so I have a feel for one key versus another , and enjoy trying something in another key and can imagine how the chord shape will be different 2) my piano teacher told me that often the timing of the right hand is ok, and the "left hand sort of trundles along" - I find myself saying to the left : "come along little doggies" - so at least I realize when the doggies need encouragement 😀 The denouement is Recently , I find I don't worry much about whether I'm intermediate or not So another precept would be : if someone asks whether you're intermediate you say "idk , I can do quite a few things , some other things I can't do at all "😀

[@PianistAcademy1]

I'd agree! The more you learn, the more you realize how much left there is to learn. The greatest musicians ever to life will always say that they try as they can, but there's always another step toward mastery.

[@belenlg5978]

I have been having impostors syndrome lately about my actual piano level, so this was really useful. Yey, I'm advanced intermediate despite feeling like I suck haha I studied piano since I was maybe 5 yo, but my parents couldnt afford the best teachers nor enough exam preparation hours to get into the very competitive conservatory in my city. I kept taking classes and studied piano on and off until university. In the past years I've done some private lessons and kept learning on my own, specially music theory, composing arrangements and a bit of very basic jazz. Now I'm 37 and I play a lot, but I definitely feel that I am in an uncommon level. At my age, there are either beginner players or very professional ones, and finding intermediate content is hard!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Glad to hear you're enjoying being back at the piano!

[@ryptoll4801]

I'm only a beginner as I just started practicing 4 months ago, and can only play simple melodies and chords with both hands... but not yet together. My sight reading is also about the same level as my playing skill, ie I can read and write simple melodies in sheet music but nothing close to intermediate level. But there's a lot of the other things on this list that I can do. I very easily hear if I play something wrong, not just notes but also rhythm and technique. I've learned most of the major and minor scales by now, including harmonic and melodic minor scales, and they definitely feel different for me. I've also already learned how to change the key signature of simple melodies by treating the notes more like their numbers and paying attention to the half steps and whole steps as well as the root note. I learned this very early on because I quickly realized I needed to play my scales in an actual melody to imprint them into my head. So I created a simple melody containing all 7 (8) notes, and translated it into each scale. And it worked, it was a brilliant idea! I know the 7 basic chords for some of the scales: C and G major, A, B, F and G minor. I can definitely hear the difference between major, minor, diminished and augmented chords, and I think I've gotten a fairly firm grasp on more than just the basics of music theory. I think this uneven level of knowledge is due to that I'm teaching myself and thus easily end up spending way more time watching youtube videos on music theory and changing the key of the same song (my own creation) again for the 5th time as I struggle to make it perfect. Also being fascinated by all kinds of music and genres, I very quickly practiced playing songs in odd time signatures like 7/8, and doing so forced me to improve my sense of rhythm fast, because those time signatures are a bit harder to count and you can't really do them sloppily. Although I haven't used the metronome much, it's easier for me to find the rhythm in the melody instead. That way I feel more connected to what I'm playing as well. So more beginner focused stuff kinda ended up on the backburner for me. Instead of learning more songs I just keep replaying the handful I know. I haven't practiced two-hand playing much at all, because I know I suck at multi-tasking in general (I don't even type with both hands) which I know is a terrible excuse, but point being: without a teacher, it's easy to make stupid priorities based on what's fun. Also a big reason my practice has been so disorganized is because I up until 2 days ago only had a tiny toy piano as my instrumment, which means there was a lot I couldn't physically do. So in order to not get discouraged, I just kept doing what I could with it, as I thought that's bettter than nothing. But now I finally have a real piano and that has improved my practice a lot already. All the work I put into proper fingering techniques, rhythm, learning where the notes are on the piano, sight reading, etc, made me basically get used to playing on a real piano within hours. Also, if I know more than the average beginner, that's probably because I've been consistently practicing 3-10 hours daily, and that's not even including the amount of time I've been learning music theory, because I do that more passively while doing other stuff at the same time. All in all that is a lot of time compressed into these past 4 months, that I've either been fingers stuck in the keyboard or soaking up information.

[@PianistAcademy1]

This is wonderful! Really great progress in just a few months, and after reading your time practicing, I can see why! Keep it up!

[@MeganMingler]

Fabulous video! Thank you. 👍

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for watching, Megan!

[@great-garden-watch]

Each of my hands appear to belong to different people 😢. And oh man, after watching this, my question is, what comes before beginner? This is actually depressing.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Beginner itself is quite a long path! It begins with primer level stuff like basic note reading, basic understanding of auditory concepts, and very simple execution of things at the piano. It culminates with a basic understanding and ability to play rep like many of the selections in Tchaikovsky's "Album for the Young," some of the Clementi Sonatinas, and others. A "typically developing" student will usually need somewhere between 3 and 5 years of study to go from the very basics to the end of "beginner" playing, if you spend a consistent 1+ hour per day practicing, and practicing either efficiently if you can learn that yourself, or with the guidance of a good teacher. I've seen some adult students bridge this gap in 1 to 2 years, but that's usually far less likely.

[@relicofgold]

Very depressing. Knowing what to practice is the problem. In reality you have to know it all........and some of us can't do that.

[@andyrnb4923]

I would say that I am good for all of these bar number 1. My childhood piano teacher told me I was musically dyslexic, so I never really learned scales or sight reading. I have been working on my reading lately and it has been paying dividends, allowing me to learn more complex pieces like Chopin nocturne op 9 no 1. I still can't do those runs though!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Those runs will only come with lots of dedicated practice to that type of passage, be it in that piece or a quasi scale equivalent (something like a chromatic). Keep at it, and they will start to get easier! And yay for the runs only being in the RH!

[@francescamonte3187]

I really enjoyed this take on beginner vs intermediate level. It gave me a few things to work on. Thank you!!!

[@southpark5555]

Great vid. But one comment is - that - when I play the same tune in different keys --- as in 'transcribed' - it might sound different to me for a short time when switching from one key to the other. But after a certain time, I don 't feel any different - because it's all relative within own key. Maybe other people feel differently - even in own key. I don't feel that though. After enough time in one key - it becomes the same as playing in a different key.

[@pavlenikacevic4976]

Would also love to see lists what separates intermediates from advanced, and advanced from professional (:

[@PianistAcademy1]

It’s now on my to-do list for the channel! Thanks for requesting!

[@bonjovi1612]

Hi Charles, great video as always. Thanks, I have been playing about 2.5 years now and didn’t really know where I stood, thinking I was still perhaps a late beginner level but you’ve confirmed for me that I am definitely at least an early intermediate which is nice to know. Again, thanks and thanks for being part of my piano journey.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I’m glad to hear!! Which of the 7 are you strongest with? And which is your weakest link?

[@bonjovi1612]

Oooh.. good question, I’ll let you know after my next session. I’m all excited to find out.

[@bonjovi1612]

Hi Charles, finally able to get back to you. I really happy to have surprised myself though I reckon that 50 years (yikes) of guitar playing has helped me particularly with my listening skills though your ‘simple’ phrase challenged me, I got the first half as immediacy but it took 3/4 listen through a to establish were you were going in the second, as the legendary Eric Morcambe once said, the right notes just the wrong order 🤦‍♂️. So my strongest was my dynamics and hearing myself whilst I play. My weakest would be my theory but I am a guitarist after all 🤣🤣🤣

[@Margo714P]

As a late beginner, I find the most trouble I have in advancing to intermediate is being able to play pieces with faster tempos. Moderator is somewhat fine, but I might as well forget about allegro!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Absolutely! Speeding up the fingers (and the mind 😉) can be a big challenge, even after a great deal of practice

[@taniacummings9207]

I did an online piano tutorial recently where the tutor said to learn pieces at the speed they are to be played and not to learn slowly then attempt to build up speed by repetition/rote. This means breaking it down into smaller chunks then chaining it together. I'm in my early 70s and the hands and brain just don't seem to be able to play fast unless I am whizzing thru scales or a piece of Hanon to warm up. Even then it's not super fast. I didn't start till 1970 when I was 18 then in my early 20s stopped playing. In 2000 age 50 I began again on a small electronic piano for a year or two. Didn't start seriously again till 2017 with disciplined approach and grade books. Too all younger learners I would say, never give it up. Keep your hand in as the saying goes. How many older people on piano chat forms I have seen say they wish they'd kept it up. It's so much harder as you really start to age. Right now I have a disheartened motivation procrastination problem.

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@taniacummings9207 I'd be curious to know what tutorial you saw because, in order to play anything "at tempo" you need to already have established very very advanced technique and ear training. The chunking idea at tempo (or beyond tempo) is very good and something I also teach, but definitely not at the expense of hearing the full phrase at whatever tempo it needs to be to be accurate.

[@jdsarfo610]

this is why I love the RCM piano piano program, its stress all the necessary techniques and skills to be a well rounded pianist

[@PianistAcademy1]

💯 yes!

[@zelly8163]

Thank you for your knowledge. So wish I would have started learning and playing as a child. Suppose after 30 years you would still call me a beginner yet, I have spent most of that time developing a playing technique by never forcing the tone; having their sympathetic vibrations ring like bells. In some ways I play the piano and not piano music . Also against all decorum the sustain pedal stays on and I have never used a metronome prefering to play each note from my heart.Many listeners have told how much my playing moved them. Yet, I would say the classical players in my town look down at their noses at my playing.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Classical musicians and classical education typically has a sort of "elitist" attitude, and that's something that I've personally tried to separate myself from and also separate this channel from. Classical pedagogy that *really* works often isn't taught by lots of "classical" pianists, and even professors, because they are somehow stuck in traditions of the past or forcing more difficult learning experiences on their students because it's also what they went through. Playing by ear and by feel is extremely important and nothing to be scoffed at. It's also an example of something more rarely taught in classical circles and usually "looked down" on. In order to be a well-rounded musician, yes we also need to work on precision and understanding of music, traditions, composers, technique, etc. But I'd argue it will always be more fruitful to approach those things from the perspective of listening and feeling, rather than trying to inject feeling into a very analytical understanding of technique and history.

[@MerrickMcCracken]

Something I've heard from piano instructors online and those of other instruments is to "not practice wrong," meaning not to practice mistakes. But I find if I play the notes correctly, especially for something I'm going through for the first time, I'm probably playing the rhythm incorrectly. At the pace I may need to play on a first (or fifth) pass, it's slow enough that keeping a steady rhythm is difficult. So maybe some of the problems is sight reading (how does that fit with beginner/intermediate classifications?). But what's the right perspective here for practice assuming I can recognize the note, rhythm, and dynamic errors?

[@MerrickMcCracken]

Of course it didn't take long after writing this that I find your video titled "Should Practice Be Mistake Free?" 🤣

[@PianistAcademy1]

Sight reading is always something that lags behind our technical and musical development. Typically, for whatever levels you’ve achieved in the former two areas, you should be able to sight read music about 3-4 levels easier. Of course, reading itself takes practice, so the more you practice sight reading the better you will become. Did my other video help answer this question? Also, if slowing tempo is the true cause of rhythmic inconsistencies and mis-reads, then learning to feel pulse and/subdivisions of a very slow pulse would be something to work on. For example, can you keep time with a metronome set to 40 bpm by feeling a subdivision of an eighth note? And then by a subdivision of a 16th? And then what about slower than 40?

[@bricecoustillas2176]

A very interesting and fruitful video of yours. I shall get back to you in a few months to subscribe to one of your curricula.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks so much, Brice!

[@nonsense5853]

Subbed - great video! Would love to see your take on a daily skills exercise that covers these 7 topics practically that one could do before and/or after practicing pieces (the fun stuff) I’m a guitar player with over 20 years experience so all of the theory points you hit resonated with me with and how I think about the guitar. Translating those to piano has been challenging to put it lightly ❤

[@PianistAcademy1]

That's a great idea! Thanks for watching, and thanks for the input. I hope your journey into piano is fun, even though challenging! I taught myself a tiny tiny bit of guitar over the years, so kind of went the opposite direction as you are. But I'm still not very good... I can fumble through some chords with a lot of practice. My bass guitar playing is much better, even though I only picked that up a handful of years ago haha.

[@brendamengeling4653]

In terms of music theory and ear training, I’m intermediate to late intermediate, because I played the violin and I sing. Chord theory is intermediate, but piano technique is early intermediate. A lot of the pedagogical pieces I have been working on deal with hand coordination and piano geography. They have titles like Billowing Breakers, The Sea, By the Brook-lots of water and wave references. I’m actually finding dynamics the hardest part, and I should put that into my scale practice. Thank you!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Great stuff!

[@APetula]

I hear you! I understand music in a much better level that I can play my recorder, my accordéon and my piano... The physiology doesn't accompany the mind

[@alisonduffy6206]

Thanks Charles, I found that very inspiring!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks, Alison!!

[@Flommo_144]

I like your playing. But your jacket, where did you get it sir? I want one too.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Haha, thanks bud! Surprise, surprise... Amazon lol. I'll send you a link if you really want to take a look!

[@misstery25]

When you watch a video hoping you’re not a beginner and then you find out you are definitely still a beginner. 😅 Knowledge is motivation and power. And, honestly, I sort of knew this, even if I can play pieces of difficult pieces and I am not new to piano. But now I know what I need because I truly want to improve and be proud when I do!

[@RMPdude]

Excellent video. Thanks!

[@nevetsny1]

I wish my teachers pushed me to take a theory course I dunno why I wasn’t motivated work I guess. When I finally took a couple it made reading and memorization much easier and also figuring out something you heard in a movie or musical where there’s no score much easier. I still have ear training apps and finally getting deeper into jazz pieces and it makes practicing classical pieces less of a grind.

[@PianistAcademy1]

So good, yes!

[@MathieuPrevot]

What would be a pianist who 1. volontarily desynchonize hands like Liszt ? beyond pro ? 2. sight read and reduce orchestra scores ? 3. transpose any piece into any tonality ? 4. play a piece whatever how complex by hearing it (eg., Tatum playing Horowit's arrangement) ? 5. compose-improvise into a) any existing style (eg., Messiaen, Bach) b) any never heard style ? 6. sight read a tempo a) Chopin's études b) Liszt's études c) Ligeti's études d) Godowsky's études ?

[@PianistAcademy1]

1. I find most of Liszt to be more pianistic than most of the rest of the repertoire so, barring the Transcendental Etudes, his music isn't "god-like" but super flashy without being "overly" difficult. It's still highly advanced, but I'd argue easier than Petrushka or Firebird, for example. 2. Advanced to Pro depending on the composer and instrumentation... AND if you need this skill for some reason. I needed to learn to sightread and reduce 8-part choral scores on the spot so I have that ability, but I've never had a need to reduce an orchestral score. Usually I'm either conducting or just studying scoring. 3. Beyond pro/savant. Extremely rare and probably not attainable by training alone. 4. Beyond pro/savant. Once again, extremely few people have ever been able to do this, if you mean perfectly after a single listen. If you mean that we get as much time as needed to arrange by ear, then some great ear training and pro abilities will get you there. I do that on almost a daily basis and there are plenty of others who can. 5. Beyond pro/savant. Composing into any style is attainable by many professionals given time. Improvising into any style is something I've only heard done by 2 people currently alive. Chopin probably could have done this. 6. Likely no one who has lived or will ever live. This is kind of a paradoxical question because gaining the remotest chance of being able to sight read this rep will likely require already having played it before... but once you've studied it to gain mastery over the challenges of each, you no longer have fresh rep to sight read. Beyond that, gaining mastery over time is a far cry from being able to sight read at mastery. Argerich, who is known for being able to learn a piece of music fully without ever touching the keys, probably still wouldn't come close to being able to read Transcendental Etudes, Ligeti, or Godowsky. She might be the closest living pianist to achieving that, and I'd bet she'd fall *way* short.

[@MathieuPrevot]

@@PianistAcademy1 1. One can desynchronise hand in any piece from any composer; It's more or less easy depending on the way the pianist learn a piece. With Ligeti's études would be a good challenge. Liszt's music is often "physiological" for the hand and anatomy, but several pieces are really pushing (try Liszt-Mozart after Figaro, or études 4 after Paganini version 2 1836). Ranking pieces is absolut a nonsense, because a lot is not from the score, eg., tempi can change radically the "ranking", the musicality one puts, etc. For me it's more comfortable to read or play 3 movements of Petrouchka than Mazeppa and Feux-follets with a good tempo (eg., Emil von Sauer, Kissin); Firebird is nothing special. Almost everybody arranges Petrouchka and Mazeppa to make them easier, and despite those, can't reach satisfaction IMHO, esp., Mazeppa. 2+3. it's actually a standard exam for a few CNSM masters (accompanists) 4. Tatum could do that, and I believe, many jazz pianists, and likely many composers-pianists too. 5. At CNSM, Zygel's improvisation's class is about that, so, pretty standard. JB Doulcet as another example has videos doing this. 5b is rare; usually composers could do that or almost, because it's ratehr their style (eg., Thomas Lacote, Olivier Messiaen etc). 6. If you do not know Martha Argerich directly or indirectly, and no media talks about that, it's speculation. I remarked a trend, americans like to define and claim things, while it's just speculation; I'm certain many are defining and claiming things in the world too; I am not sure what this is called, "phony complex" ? Philippe Hattat could do this sight reading with Liszt's études many years ago, so I believe he improved radicaly since then. I believe many can do that, but they don't make YT videos about it. I suspect Argerich, Horowitz, Richter and many others can do that or almost that. Leonid Egorov for instance, but he is so so demanding with himself he won't make a video about it. I guess he could also improvise in the style of the étude to continue the music too.

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@MathieuPrevot It seems a bit like you intended to pick a fight if you already had answers for the questions you posed ;-) 1. Does intentionally desynchronizing the hands from what is written provide any helpful benefit? I'd so no, 100% no. I also disagree with symmetrical practice. The rest of your answer I don't disagree with. It's a bit like Schnabel said "The sonatas of Mozart are unique; they are too easy for children, and too difficult for artists." It also applies greatly to the rest of the repertoire as well. 2+3 Well, I'm glad somewhere in the world that pianists training to be collaborative players have requirements like this. Most Doctorate holding collab pianists in the US can barely reduce 4-part writing. But 3... hmmm I don't think so. Ok... I want Liszt's 6th Paganini Etude transposed up 1 step and played in Dorian. Lol. I don't think there is anyone on the planet capable of doing that without *significant* practice. Yes that is a supposition, but it's a highly educated and experienced supposition. 4. I don't disagree that some have been able to do this. I don't think "many" jazz pianists can do this, especially with music outside of the genre they live in. Pick a jazz pianist and ask them to play Rach 2, by ear, no practice. Not gonna happen. MAYBE some of the greatest to ever live, yes. But not your random, professional, pianist you pull off the street. Again, yes supposition, but from a highly educated and experienced position. 5. It sounds like there are some truly remarkable people coming out of CNSM. 6. One of my teachers is friends with Martha, so while I haven't met her personally (I have played for her) I have heard first-hand stories. If Richter could, then why did he force himself to practice 10 to 12 hours per day? Surely someone who can sightread at that level wouldn't need to give up literally everything else in life just to practice. Horowitz, maybe... I have no idea. Another of my teachers had one masterclass with him, so I can ask if he has any insight. But if he could also sightread to that level, why are his performances always so fraught with wrong notes? Surely if your mind and comprehend that amount of information that quickly, playing from memory after practice should be a simple task, not a difficult one. The trouble is, how can anyone be sure of anyone who claims to have that ability? The world is full of people who make grandiose claims, but when push comes to shove they actually can't do what they say. Is the musical world in Europe that far superior to that of the US? Because I have never, in any circles here, seen anything remotely close to what you describe as commonplace. My Juilliard friends that can improvise very well, usually can do it in 1 to 2 styles, not any style ever written nor yet to be conceived. And no contemporaries of mine, that I have met personally, can reduce an orchestral score on the spot, nor can they sightread the most difficult repertoire ever written. And these include people who are prizewinners in some of the bigger international competitions. I've seen, personally, some very extremely talented people *not* be able to do what you claim to be commonplace at CNSM. So is the level of talent and ability that far separated?

[@MathieuPrevot]

@@PianistAcademy1 I was curious about your notions of levels. I understand and respect your point of view. In my experience, several points you mention as "intermediate" were actually in the program in the first 2 years (both solfège and piano), in a very common conservatory (Paris, not CNSM). I cannot answer about superiorities US vs europe, I only met people who could do miscellaneous remarkable things in private, but they do not advertise about it. I also heard poor (IMHO) performances and recordings from students from CNSM. I think school populations are rather diverse. Sometimes, there are a few incredible talents, and there is no branding about them. Debussy and Ravel were rejecting or critisizing numerous classes and approaches from CNSM, and were rejected-critisized themselves, but now, we only remember them. Liszt was the enemy of conservatories at his time. I would say that us school make more noise, because they are excellent and much better at branding and self-branding (including students); which is something lacks in europe and at least a few european artists wished things were different. I believe the polish school of piano is very interesting, and very little is said about it. CNSM is the oldest european conservatory, and maybe "prestigious" but what is it really today ? I use to think that Moscow conservatory was superior to any other, but Ciccolini's students told me CNSM was actually better. The last few decades, russian and polish schools of piano were introduced in France via Pierre Sancan and Jean Fassina, and believed to be superior to the french technique (jeu perlé). I have the feeling that there are a lot of stirring of influences and approaches. I believe that there is never any absolute ranking of anything; one always put forward a set of aspects, maybe in order to serve a certain branding. So, what do you rank: teaching portfolio ? ecosystem ? branding power ? media impact ? income ? commercial success of former students ? the actual musicality and "teachingness" of star teachers ? the mean level of students ? the best level ? the lowest level ? the ability to support a student leveraging, nurturing his-her own potential ? the amount of progress between entrance and exit of each student ? Among artists and "artists", is the essence of music and musicality being replaced by the branding power ? the ability to farm platform features, leverage algorithms and gather followers ? the sex-appeal-power ? clickbaitness ? I have the feeling art is indeed dying. Sight reading is in a way always kind of working for a pianists, because he-she drops just the amount of notes to be able to keep playing at a given tempo.

[@DonWhisner]

Consider: an intermediate pianist maintains a ready repertory , the tunes and pieces they carry by heart Great video ...thanks

[@PianistAcademy1]

I think that's a great goal! Personally, I've performed dozens of different programs of music in concert, from solo recitals to collab with vocalists and chamber musicians... and almost none of it stays in my fingers unless I have a full season of the same repertoire booked! And even then, by the next season, all of that music will be pushed out in favor of what's currently being worked on. At best, from the probably 100 hours of repertoire I've learned in my life, 30 minutes of it, at most, is in my fingers at any given time. Considering not even I as a professional performing musician can maintain a ready repertoire, that's a very high ask of an intermediate student!

[@serwoolsley]

-😱😱 wait, it's all scales?? -😵 🔫 always has been

[@PianistAcademy1]

🤣 scales are just one of the easiest ways to demonstrate some of this stuff, but it’s far from all or only what I mean 😁

[@SuperMBARutgers2013]

Subscribed. This is fantastic. Thank you.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for the sub! Looking forward to seeing you around the channel!

[@cheryla.8583]

Realization, you defined me as a beginner able to play some intermediate pieces but no foundation. I better hit those scales… Any videos on how to learn scales in a fun way and make them stick? Thank you for the help…. I’ll keep watching.( and playing)

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for watching, Cheryl! Check out the following video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5W3ZWaYZc6SnNU. I originally made it to go over better ways of practicing Hanon, but I'd apply all of the variations I talk through to scales as well!

[@vanolla]

This was very helpful as I try to pick up piano again after 30 years

[@Xzy_158]

Thx for the video Charles :) I feel like my 'audiation' skills are a bit behind from everything else,,, the thing you did at 5:25 is what i have to do in my exam soon, but i often struggle to remember a 2 phrase melody. Pitch identification generally isnt the issue, i just cant remember it lol. Also do u have any advice on how can i recognise which key a phrase modulates to? (Its also a part of my exam)

[@PianistAcademy1]

One of the keys to being able to play back a melody OR (even more advanced) notate it out, is having that rock solid memory of the phrase you heard. Try to hum along with it and then hum or sing it back to yourself immediately. If you can't get the entire thing in just one play through, focus on the first bar or first two bars. It's rare to be asked to play back after just a single hearing, usually you'll get at least 2 or 3 in an exam. Make it a goal to be able to sing the first two bars after the first listen, then next two after the second, and the final 2 after the third. The faster and more solidly we can create that auditory memory of the phrase, the easier it will be to go to the next steps of playing it back and eventually notating it out. For modulations, check your syllabus and see which types of modulations you're being tested on. It's probably not every conceivable kind and probably not to any key, but to closely related keys and via certain mechanisms like pivot chord or secondary dominant. Figure that out first so we can immediately eliminate choices down to just a handful. My second suggestion would be to begin to learn the tonal "color" or "timbre" of each key. For example, if a passage is in C, can you tell it's in C just by the color of the harmony? If it's in D, likewise, do you hear the difference. Take a simple melody and chord piece (something like level 2 or 3) and transpose it yourself throughout the keys and listen for the timbral differences. I don't have "perfect pitch" in the traditional sense, but on the piano I've learned to identify very particular colors for each note and each key. I'll rarely miss identify something if it's piano because of those colors. BUT... as soon as the instrument changes, that entire sense of color recognition goes out the window and I have to fully rely on my relative pitch training to continue to play by ear, transcribe, etc. Hence, it's not true perfect pitch. But, point is, that color recognition can take you a very very long way.

[@Xzy_158]

@PianistAcademy1 thank you so much! I was hesitant about trying to learn the colours of keys because it seemed like it might be a bit inconcrete and easy to mess up, but I'll be sure to give it another go :)

[@orchestrain88keys]

Thanks a lot. But, how about proper use and control of pedal? I think this is extremely important and should have been in the list. But, let me know what you think.

[@PianistAcademy1]

It's absolutely important! It didn't make this list because I think pedal generally will be something that separates intermediate and advanced players, and again, advanced and professional players. Often, late beginners struggle with the coordination to pedal and they have even more trouble truly hearing what the pedal is doing. It's a matter of more time and practice to begin to understand the basics of pedal, and that usually doesn't happen until I see students playing at least RCM level 5 or 6 rep... Mendelssohn Op 19 No 4 is a great example of a piece I love to use with intermediate students to work on phrase and pedal.

[@orchestrain88keys]

​@@PianistAcademy1totally agree. Now I see why it wasn't in the list. 😊

[@APetula]

I'm definitely a beginner, however I was advancing very quickly when I was studying 45 min on week nights and around 2hs on weekend days. That routine was hard to keep, so in about 6 months, with work stress, I let go ... Which is frustrating, because now I can't go back to that level, I have to start from earlier... I know people say that if you have 15 yo 20 minutes a day you should use that. But for me it takes me time to really get into it, do scales, technique, répertoire.... 45 min was my sweet learning spot, but I just can't find that time anymore

[@PianistAcademy1]

Yes, 15-20 minutes is better than none, but I absolutely understand what you mean that 45 minutes is a kind of sweet spot. My own minimum practice “slot” is usually about 30 minutes, and if I only have that little time in one sitting, it’s usually spent only working on 2 or 4 measures of difficult stuff, not pages, and definitely not an entire work or piece!

[@APetula]

@@PianistAcademy1 i guess I need to learn to not do everything in a practice session. Like you said, maybe one short practice is just for repertoire, another is for technique, etc.

[@backtoschool1611]

Just for completeness sake, could you please do a list for Beginners and Advanced players. It would be interesting to see what thoes look like.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Love this idea. Maybe late beginners vs early beginners? And advanced vs intermediate? And finally concert pianist vs advanced pianist?

[@backtoschool1611]

@@PianistAcademy1 Yes!!👍👍

[@backtoschool1611]

@@PianistAcademy1 ​This may also help new piano teachers as well for setting up lessons etc. Just a thought! 🙂

[@ahufton6]

I have discovered at a very late age I have a condition call Aphantasia! This means I have no ‘minds eye’ and do not visualise in my head. Unfortunately, I cannot ‘hear’ music in my head either! So point four is totally irrelevant for me. I am trying to identify the different ways of learning and why I could never progress beyond advanced intermediate. Do you have any experience teaching people with Aphantasia?

[@PianistAcademy1]

That is fascinating, and thank you for sharing! Before your comment, I didn’t even know about Aphantasia. To be completely honest, my current ways of teaching revolve so heavily around audiation and painting scenes with music that I wouldn’t know the first place to start working with you. I’ve already started a conversation with a good friend of mine at Indiana University who has experience teaching students with lots of different learning needs and styles. I would love to learn more to be of better help to you!

[@clara7517]

I might suggest one more. That an intermediate level pianist should be able to control the balance and voicing of their playing. In other words, can they bring out the melody, so that it can be consistently heard and distinguished from the accompanying parts? For a more advanced pianist, can they do this when the melody is played by the left hand?

[@PianistAcademy1]

I think that's great! I'd say for sure by late intermediate they should be on the path to do this, but in my experience only the most talented early intermediate pianists get an understanding of how to do this that early. We can teach it and bring the attention of the ear to it and talk about balancing the hand to voice correctly, but it's usually a few more years of practice before its more second nature. I think Bach Inventions are a great place to begin to hone this skill, but they are RCM level 8, the final level before advanced repertoire begins.

[@clara7517]

@@PianistAcademy1 I was required to practice scales playing forte in one hand and piano in the other to start developing the skill. I think that it was assigned around grade 6. It had the side effect of making scales slightly more interesting. Chopin's prelude in B minor is another handy piece to learn hand balance. I think it's around grade 7-8 .

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@clara7517 As well as Prelude 4 in e minor, for typical RH singing above a LH accompaniment. Despite how "easy" both of those Preludes are (and yes, technically they are among the easier ones), they are incredibly challenging to play musically!

[@timange124]

Good evening, Im wondering if you can guide me on the best possible way to learn piano online? I’m 40 years old and I’ve decided that I need I would love to make piano a part of my life. I’ve purchased a piano (arriving Tuesday) and I am quite excited to start. I do not want to start on the wrong foot and learn bad habits. Any guidance here would be very much appreciated. I’m pretty much a beginner, can do a couple scales pretty smooth and read a bit of notation, but I would like to start from scratch and learn the proper way. Thanks for any help, I appreciate it.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Tim, that's a tough question to give a relatively concise answer! I'd suggest you to get either the Faber or Alfred Adult Piano method books (Faber has 2 levels, Alfred has 3), or work through both simultaneously if you have the desire! I'd also supplement that with technique and selections from the RCM (Royal Conservatory of Music) leveling system. You can find the complete syllabus for all 12 levels of the RCM program for free online, and you can either choose to find materials to help you along that journey yourself or you can purchase books from RCM that will save you the time in finding the material elsewhere. And if you'd like to play music other than notated classical stuff, learn chord harmony and how to read a lead sheet. I don't have any resource suggestions on that front as I typically teach that on the spot and off the top of my head to my own students. I hope that helps!

[@timange124]

Thank you very much for that response, it was extremely helpful. I will most definitely look into those suggestions. Thanks for your time, and thank you for your content. It’s a great channel.

[@serwoolsley]

congrats on 10k subscribers !

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks!! I haven't yet had a chance to make a post here on the community tab, but I've been wanting to for the last few days! We hit 10k on Sunday morning! And about 2 months before the channel turns 2 years old 😀

[@SillyWillyFan47]

For those of us led astray by musical whim & will-o-the-wisps, back to the light, back to the road.

[@Xanadu2025]

This was very helpful. Thank you.

[@bonjovi1612]

Hi Charles I hope you don’t mind a question here. Unfortunately I can’t afford a teacher at the moment so I’m struggling to improve in certain areas such as moving my thumb efficiently whilst playing scales more rapidly. I have naturally scoured KZbin but am confused by the different approaches. Would you be happy to share your advice? I am using some of the books such as the Faber New Hanon you have recommended, and watched your videos on the first three movements. Perhaps you might continue in that vein, I think many of us would appreciate it. Many thanks, Kevin

[@PianistAcademy1]

The best approach for scales and thumb movement really depends on exactly where your technique currently is. There are some very advanced tips for quick and efficient movement of the thumb, but they are definitely things I wouldn't share until the rest of the mechanism is working appropriately. In earlier tackling of thumb movement the biggest thing we want to avoid is excessive turning of the wrist, laterally, to aid the thumb. We want to build enough flexibility in the thumb itself that the tuck under the hand can be done with no aid from the wrist. The second thing I'd add on top of that is that after each tuck (think ascending RH) we want the remaining 4 fingers to immediately and as quickly as possible come to rest on their upcoming pitches. A great way to practice this is to feel like you are "throwing" the other 4 fingers over the thumb and into position for what's next. Play through the tuck and pause once all of the remaining fingers are in place. This also has the benefit of immediately relieving the tension placed on the thumb during the tuck and returning the hand to a more comfortable position. Let me know if that helps!

[@nevetsny1]

Just making sure. Rep is repertoire? Can you do one for advanced?

[@PianistAcademy1]

Yes, rep is repertoire! I've had a few requests to do an advanced one, so yes, it's in the works!

[@taniacummings9207]

​@@PianistAcademy1Oh no. (Bangs head on keyboard).

[@lettersquash]

Well, I was going to demote myself to beginner half way through this. But the set of differences began with more theoretical aspects, which is my weakness, and then went on to audiation and physical ability at the keyboard, which I'm pretty good at. I have internalized a lot of intervals and chords without much clue what they are in music theory. I've played in rock bands, and sat for hours just composing and improvising. So I could visualise the notes I'd play in repeating the little melody with ease. Although I understand the basics of scale degrees, triads and simpler harmonic progressions, I haven't learned each key or which notes are in particular keys or chords. The task seems monumental now as a returner after about 50 years since my last piano lesson, and I'm just not that interested. I really doubt the pay-off would be worth the slog. In fact, I resist the theoretical approach to music (at least as a learner of pieces - analysis after the fact is different), which describes a B as a C-flat or an A-double-sharp or what have you according to harmonic functions of the chords implied by the music. It's insane and annoys me intensely that reading pieces is made vastly more difficult by the antiquarian historical accident of a staff with positions for only seven out of the twelve tones of the octave, which necessitated key signatures, and then accidentals, and the selection of symbols according to theoretical constructs, that we're always playing "in" some defined tonal set and harmonic function. Bonkers. This - I have to assume - will be proven by certain kinds of atonal music, where composers must be hard-pressed to know whether to write an F# or a Gb, or indeed also positively resist the necessity of choosing. But we can't just find five more names for the black notes that don't refer to their neighbours, because of that dumb staff with no room for them. And that's before we get into the different clefs, the default treble and bass having their notes offset, the asymmetry of octaves on the staff, each being on a line or space alternately, the vague defaults like RH-treble-cleff-top-staff/LH-bass-cleff-bottom-staff that often need to be altered (clefs change on each of the staves, and don't just include bass and treble, while voices and hands run from one staff to another). Time symbols are also a mess of redundant methods (like ties and dotted notes), beams are about as obscure as any graphic system could possibly be, as ridiculous as ledger lines, and still, after long study and practice, the system baffles me. I currently still struggle on with traditional notation - although in limited keys - but I'm writing an alternative notation system, both to help me learn more music without all that arbitrary guff, and to help other potential musicians. Too many give up when they hit a wall of musical mathematics. Oops, sorry, didn't mean to rant!

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks for the comment! Do what works for you and continue to enjoy playing! A lot of times, videos I film are truly aimed at the students who want to progress to “professional classical pianist” or working musician even not classical. So I hit some things pretty hard that players who are in it for enjoyment may or may not really care about. Your comments about notation are fascinating to me. I was reading grand staff at 4, probably all keys in tonal music by 7 or 8 years old. Looking at a page of music for me isn’t a whole lot unlike reading paragraphs in English. I find it really accessible and straightforward… actually in some ways even more so than the English language. I agree that it does break down in atonal and 12 tone music. When reading tonal music, to me at least, it comes down to the same skill of pattern recognition as reading a word, a phrase, a sentence, a paragraph in any written language. All language is full of patterns and subtext. For example, when I see a “chord” on paper (with or without accidentals) it’s about equivalent as seeing a word in English… there’s an instant recognition of what it is and then what it feels like to “play” or “speak.” Same with lots and lots of linear phrases that obey traditional theory. That recognition lets me read music just as fast as I’ll read a written sentence. Later in life (after my Masters’ degree) I taught myself to read “square notation” that you’d find in early chant. It’s a different system of rhythm and slightly different showing of pitch with implied modes/scales. It was difficult until my immersion led to fluency in much the same way that I experienced the grand staff most pianists play from. I’d be interested to see another system! A couple I’ve seen from others who are on a similar quest have left me dissatisfied because there is no bridge between current notation and their system. It would be like learning a whole new language, and needing to relearn all of my pattern recognition. In any case, keep us posted!

[@lettersquash]

@@PianistAcademy1 I can't thank you enough for this reply! My post got a bit ranty partly from the frustration of suggesting the need for alternative notation systems (e.g. on pianostreet forum) and finding mostly disinterest or patronisation from skilled musicians. Your response is different and very encouraging, and I'm very moved by the request to keep you posted, which I will do. I'm very jealous of your ability reading the musical language of traditional notation. I wonder how much it comes from very early initiation. I began piano lessons at about 8 and had about 3 years training, and always struggled, largely I think because of my ability to play by ear (my teacher endlessly told me off for guessing instead of reading). Other responses from skilled players have emphasized how easy it was for them to learn, or how natural it is to them, and quite often complete bafflement that anyone could possibly struggle with it. I've had the basics explained to me as though I'd never had a lesson in my life or I just needed a special key to it (like "middle C is right between the two staves, so..."). On the other hand, from some, there were little intimations of just how much time and effort went into getting proficient, but still with the attitude that there is no other way, there could never be any better way, why change it when it works great? I don't think anyone else (other than one or two authors of their own systems) has acknowledged that there are people who might want other routes and destinations, and might benefit from other methods. Thank you. A friend of mine working on another system will be stoked to read this too. Most of these nowadays are of course app based, so need coding, and to be practical, they need to have access to traditional notation examples, such as MusicXML files. I've been involved in a group exploring alternative notation systems for several years while I develop my own, and I'm aware of a wide range of types. I've also noticed a wide range of different priorities in the requirements of a "better" system, and strong emotions about those. There have been literally hundreds of proposals over centuries, but few have had any impact (Klavaskribo is a notable exception, but still has a tiny user base, and I don't count methods like Synthesia as notations). I repeatedly doubt my own decisions and keep tweaking things, and I sometimes worry about that fundamental difference in approach - i.e. that almost all of what we play conforms to major or minor scales and harmonic progressions, and my notation divests the notes of those relationships (where traditional notation depends on them and therefore emphasizes them). But, as I said, I'm not against musical analysis, I just don't think it should be necessary to do a bunch of it in order to read (or even more critically, write) music. First, I just wanted to learn more of the music I love (ironically, J S Bach features highly) and needed a simpler system, and then met others who were as baffled by the intricacies of the traditional system. There is some research showing this is a common reason students quit, when they go from what seems simple and logical in their early lessons to more sharps or flats and complex rhythms. There are undoubtedly difficulties to be overcome, and I despise the "Learn to play piano in five hours!" nonsense. It's worth also saying that I retain the 7-5 grouping (i.e. the A-G and black notes) and what emerges is often called "piano tabs" because it has a visual relationship to the keyboard layout, but my counter to this is that it's the other way around. Western music is based on that beautiful and navigationally helpful pattern (I've seen a wonderfully democratic all-white keyboard, but how does anyone know where anything is?!) and the power of the piano keyboard is that it reproduces that pattern across the registers, but (almost) all Western instruments use the same notes. Anyway, sorry for the length of my reply, and thank you again for yours!

[@PianistAcademy1]

I appreciate the discussion! One thing that popped into mind as I was reading: while I agree that a new notational system shouldn’t “require” harmonic analysis to read, I’d argue that it shouldn’t make it any more difficult when someone wants to take a look at that aspect of the music. For example, I’d still want a system where different harmonic function isn’t obscured (at least not further than it currently is lol). There are a handful of measures of “distant harmony” from the tonal center that have been incredibly awkward to read… so much so that actually I ended up memorizing them based on their simpler enharmonic equivalent rather than the theoretically correct harmony. In one particular case, the original spelling made it look like a passage of most arpeggio in root position… but in practice, it felt like a first inversion. That measure has always stuck out at me… as I mentioned I’m a pretty good sight reader lol. But that measure was like pulling teeth and painfully slow to decode. I watched a friend of mine read it and he literally picked up the score and threw it across the room in frustration! And he was a winner of some pretty big competitions, so no slouch on the bench 😂

[@snurrfint]

This video is the reason so many people quit piano, or at least classical piano. Imagine beeing called a beginner after practising every day for several years.

[@PianistAcademy1]

In fact, I *was* called a beginner for 6 years of my life, practicing every day for at least 1 hour per day. And a few years later, when I thought I was hot stuff at 14 years old, I got my butt handed to me in a few competitions by... 8 year olds. So yes, absolutely I know what it feels like to be called a beginner or be called a loser, and to be completely embarrassed, publicly even. Moments like those either make people quit or they make people stronger, the choice is yours to make. Greatness isn't ever attained without hurt and loss.

[@snurrfint]

​@@PianistAcademy1 Well, I never taken a single piano lesson, so I would not know. Good on you for not giving up. Im just pointing out facts here. Find any other occupation/skill where after several years of practice, someone would still be concidered a beginner. Spoiler, you wont find any. Classical piano is very elitist from what I have seen, you are either a savant or crap. This was said about Eric Satie, my favourite composer btw, when he was taking intermediate piano classes: "Mathias described his playing as "Insignificant and laborious" and Satie himself "Worthless. Three months just to learn the piece. Cannot sight-read properly"" He quit piano school shortly after and would probably be classed as a beginner pianist when he wrote the Gymnopédies and the Gnossiennes. Food for thought.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Even that statement is not true. Other professions that require extended study to become proficient... you wouldn't be called a beginner persay, but you wouldn't be allowed to practice your profession until 10+ years of study and practical experience. Just a general practice doctor comes to mind... something like 10 years of schooling and at no point in there could you start your own practice until you are fully qualified. Specialists and Surgeons, far far longer, sometimes 20 years of school. Lawyers would be similar as well. I personally hate the elitist side of classical piano, partially because I experienced it directly and from the inside. But, in my experience and similar to your quote, an elitist stance on music education would be more like "you're a beginner and there's no hope, so just quit." I've actually witnessed masterclasses (with degree holding students) where the instructor has told, publicly, the student to quit playing because they aren't good enough and there's no fixing their problems. *THAT* I have a big problem with. But when what I've done is lay out a complete path with all of the items, typically overlooked, that lead to greater and greater musical development, I'm providing solutions for people, giving them the next place to look to learn more and further themselves, and doing the opposite of putting up a wall and reserving education for those who are "already able."

[@snurrfint]

​@@PianistAcademy1 Doctors are practicing/working during their education and are not even then called beginners. Also, doctors save lives, so it's kind of a big deal. 20 years of law school? Never heard of. And never ever heard of a beginner lawyer for that matter. But I think we are agreeing in principal, that the elitist classical piano culture needs to end. I think stop calling players with years of practicing beginners would be a good step in the right direction. Something like grade 1-10 is much better where level 1-6 is what you would consider a beginner now. This makes it so that even after years of practising you would not be stuck in the lowest tier, you would be something like 4-5 at least. That would be a pretty good pianist compared to a real beginner on level 1-2.

[@josiasosti5310]

Some aspects I feel are so easy and long part of my base repertoire, others I feel like the most bloody beginner haha

[@PetersExcapades]

so im a beginner, some of the stuff u mentioned tho im closer to intermediate, like the scales, and recognizing different feels for different scales. problem is im only good at the C major scale, i know all other minor and major scales but havent tried playing yhem with both hands on multiple octaves, what would you recommrnd? just pick a randon scale everyday? do all scales that use the same fingering in one day then different ones in other days? etc...

[@PianistAcademy1]

I like that you're thinking about a method in your approach to practice! Yes, group your scales. Try playing C, G, and D in one particular day. Work on hands separate, hands together in contrary motion, and hands together in parallel. As quickly as possible, get your hands separately to 2 octaves, and have the others follow when you are able. Spend a few days in a row working on this "group" of scales and then create another group of 2 or 3 for the next few days. Spend a month or so alternating these groups about twice a week before you try to add in another group of scales.

[@PetersExcapades]

@@PianistAcademy1 awesome! thank you very much for your input :)

[@yvesjeaurond4937]

1_ Keys feel different? Most intermediates can only transpose scales and chords. To realize keys are not different, but rather unfamiliar, take a piece of music---preferably something short, fun, enjoyable, such as a selection from the A.-M. Notebook, First Mozart compositions, Tchaikovsky Album for the Young, Oscar Peterson jazz minuets, or Martial Solal 's _Jazz Solal_, and transpose it. Keep in mind Art Tatum's maxim "to play a tune in every key, and it will come to you." 2_See #1 above to produce good hands together. 3_ Internalizing technique. See #1 :-), but use short chord progressions at the end of pieces, such as a Bach Inventions. Find an answer to "How do composers x, y and z end their pieces?Start looking at standard chord progressions and functional harmony using books such as Levine's _The Jazz Piano Book_ or Coker et al. _Hearin' the Changes_. Start also learning/naming four-note and five-note chords in all keys (half-diminished, II7, III7, sevenths with -9, adding +4 to major chords...) 4_Ear... Sing but use scale degrees to name notes---not perfect pitch names, nor intervals. 5_Transposing a few pieces in all keys will make it more fun and useful (context). And more importantly will allow comparison of different pieces. See Mortimer Adler _How to Read a Book_ on the importance of comparing works. 6_ Dynamics. Play loud and proud every now and then. Add a few important pop tunes---Happy Birthday, the National anthem, Elton John, Take Me Out to the Ball Game, Cole Porter---to your repertoire, in every key. 7_Stop practising scales---the illusion of proficiency. Only practise a scale when it is part of a piece---Mozart, Haydn. Practise transposing pièces. If you can't transpose something---chord progression, melody, rhythm---then you won't be able to do as Dizzy Gillespie said "the pro can do it twice." And slow down your tempo so you can count out loud. Learn to count towards the beat ---NOT from the beat (as printed). and 1], and 2]... (Not 1 and. 2 and.) See Leonard Bernstein on "between the notes". The way 8th and 16th notes are printed is misleading. Remember that musical typography in the 18th century was limited and thought to be mathematical. Don't follow visual representation for an aural art. Cheers,

[@pavlenikacevic4976]

I do have some trouble with #2 even though I'm advanced, probably because I've never committed to practicing scales. I mean, sure, I'm still able to do so relatively well, but it's nevertheless an aspect of the technique that's lagging behind the other aspects

[@PianistAcademy1]

Do you find you still struggle with this in rep, especially rep that you’ve been working on for awhile, or is it mainly in new/fresh rep?

[@pavlenikacevic4976]

@@PianistAcademy1 now that I think about it, it's mainly in the new rep. For example, when I encounter a scale to be played with both hands in parallel, I need to spend some time drilling that section. I don't even use a dedicated fingering for any individual scale, I just make it up on the spot, how it comes naturally in my hands. Not the best approach, but I have always been too lazy to dedicatedly study this because I eventually make it work anyway 😅

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@pavlenikacevic4976 You already know this but… you could save *so *much *time in the learning process if you had standardized technique and fingerings for that kind of stuff! 😂

[@sp1704]

I think I had to play an RCM book 6 piece to test out of piano skills. About what level would that have been?

[@PianistAcademy1]

Level 6 RCM is pretty mid-intermediate. Level 5 begins the intermediate levels and level 8 is the final level before advanced.

[@Paul-lm5gv]

I learn and play songs I like from hymns to pop to show tunes and classics. I'm not sure I need to know all this technical stuff bec I play for my enjoyment - not to satify some requirements of what might be taught in a music school.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I started playing regularly at a local church when I was 12. Not soloing, but playing the hymns and rehearsing the choir and cantors. When I “interviewed” for the position with the music director, the first thing she did was open a hymnal with just the melody line (not 4-part, no chord changes) and told me to play it… I played the first 2 bars as written and she said, “no no no, play the entire hymn, the melody, an accompaniment, give it some rhythm…” and so, seeing only the melody, I needed to construct everything else to play basically a full arrangement, while sight reading. The only reason I could muster my way through was because of my knowledge of theory, seeing chord and harmonic construction within the melody, and also knowing how tons of chords and accompanimental “stuff” felt to play. I’ll never forget the moment. AND, it proved to me from a very young age that all of this stuff isn’t just important for someone training to be a classical player, but really its important for everyone who wants to be a better musician and pianist. Ironically, my classical teachers never taught that stuff… I taught it to myself by playing pop music and learning to improvise on the chord changes.

[@clara7517]

I have found that a knowledge of basic theory makes intermediate level pieces faster to learn and easier to memorize. For example, take the arpeggios in the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata. If you have no theory background, you would need to learn them note by note, navigating a nightmarish number of accidentals. However, if you are able to recognize that each one is based on a different diminished 7th chord, the pattern becomes super easy to follow. I spent a very aggravating 15 minutes, trying to learn the first few bars of that section, before I spotted the 7th chords. I was immediately able to sight read the entire passage, and felt supremely silly for not spotting the pattern sooner. Memorizing it was also a piece of cake.

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@clara7517 Absolutely yes!

[@backtoschool1611]

Most of my errors are in Technique as I am mostly selftaught. Intetmediate Skills- Point 1: ✔️ Point 2: ‼️ Point 3: ‼️ Point 4: ✔️ Point 5: ✔️/‼️ Point 6: ✔️/‼️ Point 7: ✔️

[@70freebikes]

Hi, I’m having trouble with number two specifically where one hand is further than the other, for some reason my right hand will get a note ahead, any tips on how to fix this?

[@PianistAcademy1]

Very common issue! The trick is to let the weaker hand lead the stronger hand. For most people, this means LH should lead the RH. Don't let the RH play until the LH is ready to, for every. single. note. be it a scale, arpeggio, or passage in repertoire. I hope you find this helpful in your practice!

[@SarahJane2025]

Me too. I am beginner it seems too. My piano teacher doesn’t cover this range of topics

[@PianistAcademy1]

Many teachers don't, and also can't themselves! It's kind of astounding actually and part of the reason I started this channel.

[@MiniNick564]

as someone who's been playing piano for almost a year, is it bad that i have only been focusing on popular pieces instead of learning chords, scales, etc?

[@PianistAcademy1]

If you’re having a good time, then great! If you want to kick up your knowledge and technique to the next level, definitely start your chord and scale study when you can.

[@gdhhayes2129]

Ear recognition? Got it nailed down. #7: no problem. Fingers are fairly fluid on the piano keyboard. Hands work together fairly well. Comprehension of music theory? Now that's a challenge. I can see it via workbooks. I can play the scales, and inversions etc. but comprehend it? I feel like I'm trying to comprehend upper level math or Greek: it's not "clicking". So I move on. I play what I like, I feel what I play, sometimes a piece is so beautiful I, literally, cry while playing it, but music theory? Nope, no comprehende.

[@ChocolateJewels]

Do you teach music theory, chord progression, etc.?

[@PianistAcademy1]

I do with my private students! I don't get into very much of that here on the channel though.

[@Alaedious]

A fascinating and very humbling video 😮

[@relicofgold]

A word you're looking for is "depressing".

[@DansChessLounge]

Any recommendations for a good online course that can take someone from a beginner to that intermediate level?

[@PianistAcademy1]

A single course doing that would be difficult to find, I think, because it would need years worth of content. If you really want to dive in, download the RCM syllabus and look at the technique requirements for each level. Although the syllabus won't give you lessons on *how* to accomplish everything, it will definitely lay out a plan for you from early beginner through to as far as you'd like to go. Here's a link to the last published syllabus (2022): rcmusic-kentico-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/rcm/media/main/about%20us/rcm%20publishing/piano-syllabus-2022-edition.pdf

[@robmarks3275]

I daresay you've missed a trick here Charles. I immediately went to the masterclass site thinking, he must have some course on working through these things, but alas no. There's also a bit of irony in that you have lessons on individual pieces that, while I'm sure do cover some technique, obviously focus on adding to your repertoire. I would love to see a course that focuses on the content of this video and includes a little repertoire or points to your other videos to take it further.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Haha, no I don't yet have any technical courses developed. It tends to make me hit my head against a wall when I think about it because... well... all of my private students all need attention to different things during their own technique practice. I suppose I could create a compilation of all of that kind of stuff and organize it by basic level... but that still leaves the burden on the student to decide what they actually need to work on, which, I don't feel great about! The closest to this would be bits of my large "Christmas" course where I do have modules on sight reading, technique, and I created exercises derived from the repertoire to practice outside of it. In the other repertoire I teach, I devote some time in each explaining various techniques that may or may not have yet been discovered by the student, why they are good to practice, where they are needed in the piece itself, and both how to practice those specific measures as well as how to apply the technique to an extended practice routine usually in scales or arpeggios! I think you have a good point about creating a course to more specifically teach these 7 things!

[@roncloud3016]

Yes! This would be a fabulous course!!

[@tr33tv]

To those "long-time beginners", piano and music is a never-ending marathon whether it takes years or decades. Don't feel disheartened because it is a not an easy instrument to master. Don't compare yourself to others, learning speeds vary as well as environment and life circumstances.

[@animillsi3592]

Today I learned I'm an advanced beginner!

[@kayoedowner6711]

I’m definitely a beginner having started playing in very late in life, I almost certainly always will be. But then my objectives are perhaps different to someone who starts playing early in life. I’m not clear what the message of this video is (after all most of us know where we are on the spectrum). I’ve never been keen on elitism it discourages participation.

[@PianistAcademy1]

I certainly hope you didn't think this video was elitist! I try my best to steer this channel in the complete opposite direction because I absolutely abhor the elitist side of classical music and performance! My original response about the reasons for this video got deleted, so I'll write a short summary of that... In my experience, students themselves rarely diagnose their level correctly and they usually use repertoire to make that call. But as a teacher, I'd be listening to how they play the rep, looking at their technique, and asking questions about their deeper understanding. Just because someone can slog through a lyrical level 9 piece doesn't mean they are a truly advanced musician if they can't get through a quick-tempo level 3 piece or if they don't understand any of the compositional theory behind the music. In fact, a poor performance of advanced music opens up far more questions than it answers. I hope that makes more sense for you now :-)

[@johnmcelhoney3585]

3 and a half years…one hour plus practice every single day. I’m still a beginner. 😢

[@PianistAcademy1]

For most, it's about 5 years to go from early beginner material to late beginner and early intermediate. There's a whole lot of important stuff to learn in the those first years, so try to have patience and keep enjoying the process of learning and practicing :-)

[@danepeter5282]

Listen to the dim and aug chords again

[@PianistAcademy1]

What about them??

[@charlesloving4820]

I wonder where pedaling fits into this list. Is that a beginner skill? Intermediate? I've been playing for 3 1/2 years & I find pedaling difficult. Also considering how critical it is, it seems not to be covered as a topic very often.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Great question! I begin to cover it pretty quickly with beginner students, as early as about 3-6 months into study, but it's still a regular topic of discussion in lessons even with my students who already hold degrees in music. Learning great pedal technique is quite complex and requires depth of knowledge about harmony, great ear training, knowledge of pedal application in different eras of composition and also in different regions of the world... *plus* the coordination between hands, fingers, and feet to execute the decision made by all of that previous information. That's part of the reason it isn't covered very much online... in person, I can't say that I've ever given the same "pedaling lesson" twice... it's something almost impossible to talk about in generalities without potentially leading one or more viewers in the wrong direction. I *do* have a video here on some basic pedal technique and coordination: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bl62mKeQfcx6gac And I also go into much more depth on pedal as a part of my "Next Level Christmas Piano" course here: pianist-academy.thinkific.com/courses/next-level-piano-christmas-edition. The mini course on pedal within this course is about 1 hour of the total 9+ hours of material covered.

[@TheresaTV1]

Ironically, my musical knowledge exceeds my ability to actually play the piano. Other adult students of my piano teacher are far beyond me at playing classical piano, but don’t have ANY music theory knowledge. I arrange and compose at my intermediate level. I lean towards jazz that is rhythmically difficult for the other students to play. I took Music Theory 2 from Berklee Online (and got an A). I don’t play fast, but I play very expressively. I’m probably never going to advance beyond intermediate level because I’m approaching 60, but I’m making the most of it. 👍

[@PianistAcademy1]

That sounds great! And because of your additional understanding, you probably are a much more musical and expressive player than the other adult students of your teacher!

[@francoisvillon1300]

Can you break a grand piano like Mazuev?

[@lumpichu]

Others, more than intermediate, players, don't agree with this opinion about keys. They explain and demonstrate it really was a difference in the past, but not today with equal tuning. It's a difference for other instruments, where some keys are more problematic to play than others. Obviously, there is a difference in pitch, or which is created when one tends to play different kind of melodies in each key :)

[@PianistAcademy1]

Tuning and equal temperament is one thing (there are still timbral differences in keys today despite equal temperament, they just aren't as pronounced as in the past), but I'd 100% disagree about keys all feeling the same. For example, there can be massive differences in playing the "same" material from a Sonata exposition and a Sonata recapitulation all because the key is changed between the two. Fingering choices will be different, the way we need to move in and out of the keys will be different, in fact in many advanced Sonatas, learning the recap and learning the exposition is more like learning two completely different pieces, not related fragments from the same... lots of students of composition, especially those who aren't pianists, don't understand this. They copy and paste material from one key into another and in one of them it might be easy or bordering on easy to play, while in the other it can be bordering on impossible. And it's all because the keys all feel different from one another. What is "pianistic" in one is not at all guaranteed to be pianistic in any other.

[@lumpichu]

@PianistAcademy1 I see, so you meant certain pieces or parts plays better in some of the keys, and that is where the difference lies, not in keys sounding differently by themselves, that makes sense to me.

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@lumpichu Better vs worse, yes, if the music in question is composed by a non-pianist or inexperienced composer. I've had to send some phrases back to new works composers to re-work because they hadn't addressed the "topology" of the keyboard at all. With most music from the great composers, it's more of a difference in feel vs one being better or worse. And if you pay close attention, many times the great composers will subtly alter notes from one statement to another in a different key, not to create musical variation, but to help the material fit the new key more easily. One example from my practice today... I took a few minutes to prep Debussy's "The Snow Is Falling" for a livestream here on the channel tomorrow. The way it's written it's not exactly in a key, but uses mostly white keys. It's considered a fairly advanced piece of music. Transpose it up by just a half step and its more challenging to play and requires a bit of a different physical approach to execute. Knowing how to play it in the original key almost doesn't help at all playing it in the half step higher key. To the point about tonal differences between keys... before equal temperament, keyboard instruments had drastically different tonalities from one key to another, as you know. Equal temperament aligned tuning to eliminate those drastic differences and make playing in many keys possible without a retuning of the instrument. However, I'd argue there are still colorations that different keys give to material. This is still why the great composers who wrote for the modern piano as we know it still chose very particular keys for compositional duties. Imagine Rachmaninoff's 2nd Sonata in b minor instead of Bb minor. It wouldn't be as dark, foreboding, and ominous if raised to b minor. Could that be due to the increase of pitch by 100 cents? Possibly, but unlikely that such a small change in tonal center would have that dramatic of an impact on the emotion the piece brings. When I compose music, there's a bunch of thought that goes into choosing the key for the piece, before I write too many notes, and it's not about register or changing keys by a 5th or a 4th to get the largest change in relative pitch... it's usually about the difference in emotion between half steps. That's why I almost always gravitate toward writing a luscious singing theme in Db Maj and not in C or in D. But I'll almost always gravitate toward writing a brassy, thunderous fanfare in D and not Db. The change in color of the key really changes the impression it gives to the listener. To bring all of this back, full circle, I'll make that choice before I write too many notes *because* I need to make my writing as pianistic as possible in the key I settle on... and if I write a bunch and then change my mind about the key, I'll likely have to revise a whole lot of phrases to fit the hands better, which in turn could significantly alter any motifs I've written Both of these topics are fascinating, I think.

[@lumpichu]

@PianistAcademy1 Thank you for a thorough and interesting response. I guess there are differences, apart from the pitch, on various pianos - every note sounds different, not just by pitch - but that would make the effect of the keys different between pianos - or there may be some subconscious associations between some kinds of music and different keys, and such associations would only appear after a beginner phase. Or it could be something else. I still don't think we could find something here objectively in that regard, but I guess it's not what's important :)

[@vincentmaloney5835]

Such a nice teacher!❤ Thank You so much for this video. It is very helpful. I took Piano 1 Class last semester at our local community college at the age of 63. Now I'm taking Piano 2. It's hard, but I'm doing fine. Straight "A"s in all assignments. You inspired me even more.

[@PianistAcademy1]

Wonderful! Thanks so much for watching!

[@ratoneo12]

Some of them yes and no, so not beginner but neither intermediate, good video

[@cablenelsonbabygrandpiano842]

Best channel

[@PianistAcademy1]

Thanks!

[@albertmagician8613]

I can't understand why on a chromatic instrument, it could make a difference which key a piece is in. As the pastor just start to sing at a random pitch don't the organ player just transpose the accompanyment. I realize that I 'm nt an intermediate player while banswering some questionsw with yes. All questions with musical content I fail, being able to answer theoretical questions donot matter really. I' m so far distanced from repeating a melody shorter and simpler than shown here, even repeated a dozen times. I could play Bach inventio 13 by heart (the only piece approximately). After 50 years i realized that this is a canon and that the voice start with the same melodic line, ONLY WHILE TRANSCIBING THE MUSIC INTO A COMPUTER.

[@PianistAcademy1]

To answer your question about transposing, that's really two skills, assuming you have an acoustic instrument with no "transpose button." Transposition itself, on the fly, is a very advanced skill. Then you'll also need to probably change the fingering for everything in the new key as well, unless it's something like C Maj to G Maj or similar. To really *feel* the difference between keys, take that Invention you know very well and transpose it up a step to Bb minor. Use a computer to do the transposition so you can focus on playing. I think then you'll see that every bar feels quite different. It comes down to the physical distance between the keys of the piano. Yes, it can play any key, but for example, a Major 3rd is a certain physical distance from C to E, a different distance from D to F# (plus angular), and yet another distance from Gb to Bb. If you don't believe me, just get a ruler out and measure them. C to E is about 2 inches exactly, D to F# is nearly 3 inches from edge of key to edge of key, Gb to Bb is about 2.25 inches. That's just 3 iterations of a single interval of the major 3rd. Those changes in distance and the angles the fingers need to move make each of them feel different to play. Compound that with all of the rest of the intervals and all of the rest of the relationships and you can see, there's a massive variety of physical changes that happen as we move around the keyboard. BUT, you'll find only a limited number of those in C Maj for example... and you'll find another limited number in Gb Maj, and so on and so on. When you really know your keys well, you'll have 24 different physical "feels" when you play. I can't say that we think about them actively during playing, but building those, at least subconsciously, is huge to unlocking ease of playing in all keys. They are all equally "easy" or hard," they are just different from one another.

[@thepianoplayer416]

Besides having better hands coordination, the main thing that separates beginners from intermediates is ear training. From my experience there is a lack of ear training of many intermediate pianists. As an adult learner I was able to reproduce more or less a theme from a TV commercial on a piano years before actually taking up the instrument. There are people in the family who took lessons as a child and passed conservatory levels. Few can play a scale by ear. They can sort of sing along to a song on radio. Reproducing the theme on piano definitely not. Isn’t ear training part of a conservatory exam? People who have music lessons for at least a year supposed to have well-trained ears?

[@PianistAcademy1]

Yes, and ear training is a huge part of this list (at least 50% I'd say, although lots of people in the comments seem to get stuck on the fact that I'm demonstrating with scales lol). When I took conservatory auditions for a undergraduate program, I was asked first to leave the bench, turn away from the piano, and identify pitch without any reference. Then I was asked to identify intervals by ear only. Then chords by ear only. Then play a melody back by ear only. Then play the melody for "Happy Birthday" in any key of my choosing. Then harmonize the melody for Happy Birthday in the same key. Then transpose both to a new key and do it again. All that was separate from the repertoire audition, and separate from the written theory exam, and it was expected for admittance. Well trained ears after one year is not something I've encountered. Sometimes I'll demonstrate passages in various ways for more advanced students and they have trouble explaining the differences. It's something every music student *should* be working on, and it's one of those components that's probably never fully mastered, even after a lifetime of study. For example, I regularly arrange orchestral music for solo piano, all by ear. I'm been doing it for a while and I'd say I'm quite good at it... but I also know in time, I'll double the speed at which I work, I'll learn to hear even more detail, etc.

[@thepianoplayer416]

@@PianistAcademy1Thanks for your comments. In my school days learning violin many students would hand their instruments to the teacher for tuning before class or anytime the instrument sounded out. It's like guitar students who can't tune their own instrument or can't tell when an E sounds out. 2 days ago I was in a second-hand store. The manager got me to tune up some instruments before putting price tags on. Not all violin students can tell an A or E that is acceptable from ones that sound even slightly out. A phone tuning app is supposed to make the job easier.

[@davidthomas3504]

So much to learn, so little time…😢

[@andredelacerdasantos4439]

I feel like composing simple pieces and being able to improvise melodies on simple chord progressions should also be an intermediate skill.Too much of music pedagogy is focused on reproducing sounds efficiently and not much effort is spent developing the ability to focus all that theoretical and technical skill into creating new combinations of sound. Would you say a child is well into the development of language if they could write down and recite memorized phrases but could not come up with a single intelligible combination of words that have not being memorized or read out loud?

[@andredelacerdasantos4439]

(classical) musicians nowadays are more akin to parrots than to actual individuals.

[@PianistAcademy1]

100% true. The lack of true creativity in performance is what makes so many pianists today bland and uninteresting to listen to. Nearly all of my private students work on learning composition while they also learn rep, even "book 1" beginners. I've done a few videos on the channel recently about how important learning composition is. Ironically, they are probably the worst performing videos in the 2 years I've been making content for this channel haha, despite containing some incredibly "potential-unlocking" information.

[@andredelacerdasantos4439]

@@PianistAcademy1 I've personally never had any incentive to learn composition from teachers in the past. I acquired the ability naturally after studying the piano for 8-9 years, only after I had mastered the very basics of piano and musical theory. After a few months of experimentation, I searched for a proper composition teacher and I cannot stress enough how much the development of compositional and improvisational skills have set me up to the next level beyond the basics (or beginner level, in the context of this video). Composition and counterpoint should indeed be taught at an early stage, good for you and your students for developing these abilities together with the basics of technical and theoretical skills. Just because we learn music as a hobby or on our free time, doesn't mean we shouldn't have a methodical approach to learning or that we shouldn't strive to be well rounded on all musical skills. I think the fact that your composition videos have the worst performance is a symptom of this non creative approach to modern music pedagogy. Since there's no incentive to learn improvisation and composition and most students won't get past the beginner level, most students never acquire the ability naturally like I did, but I assure you that all of my friends that have evolved past the basics have started creating pieces and songs of their own. We could all do it, if only modern music teaching wasn't in such a sorry state.

[@toriisutherland]

When you got halfway through #3 I started giggling thinking about how very static Horowitz is, though he clearly masters fluidity. Those long magical fingers, not a note that can hide from him...I don't care for pianists that take liberty with this to the point its ornamental and unnecessary. I get its a performance but I'm personally a fan of the delicate "understated" performances.

[@PianoRevisited]

In a nutshell I think this is why so many give up piano lessons. Nowhere is there any mention of the ability to actually play music. I can't rattle off 75% of what you were using as your benchmarks but I can play a variety of moderately advanced pieces including Clair de Lune, Liebestraume and arrangements by other KZbinrs such as Francesco Parrino. I'm 74, take my practice very seriously and find by learning an ever expanding repertoire of pieces I enjoy playing, I have become adept at playing runs, arpeggios etc, all the while bypassing the drudgery of the technical aspects you are detailing in your video. To paraphrase Errol Garner, What the audience hears is the music.

[@PianistAcademy1]

The trouble with using any piece as a benchmark is that, listing the piece doesn't say much if anything about how well that piece is being played. To take Clair de Lune as an example, which is a decently advanced piece of music... on one hand someone might be able to slowly read through the lines and somewhat construct the piece under tempo, and still say they are playing the piece. On the other hand, someone else might be able to easily and effortlessly play the notes and also focus on the artistry and interpretation at a high or professional level. They will also say the exact same thing, they are "playing the piece." I see this all the time online and people use rep to create benchmarks for themselves, but when those people ask what to work on next, a true teacher will never be able to give a thoughtful and accurate response without actually hearing the rep played and hearing/seeing the issues that will exist in various passages. Hence why I chose in this video to completely avoid the topic of repertoire. I've heard very poor renditions of Beethoven's Tempest Sonata and very well conceived Debussy's Reverie... who is the better player of those two? Impossible to actually tell by their pieces themselves. I only hit on the technical things like scales and arpeggios etc because they are by far the easiest way to talk about technique... and they actually are the easiest way to learn better technique as well, but that's not the point here. Yes, you *can* learn quite a bit of technique stuff within passages in rep, so simply replace my technique talk with the most relevant passagework for the point in question. I'm finding it ironic how many comments are focusing on the technique when, in my mind, the ear training components of this video are at least equal in number, yet no one is really talking about that... and those are the bits that are most often missing and cause more advanced learning to take longer that it should. I love Errol Garner and I absolutely agree with your quote as a professional musician. I taught an amateur chamber choir of about 30 for a decade, most of them with very little formal vocal training. Something they'd say something similar to me in rehearsal. And my response would always be, the audience will only hear your music if they aren't distracted by your mistakes. Cutoffs need to be precise, vowel shapes need to be aligned, voices need to blend, etc. If "Billy" in the back sticks out a bunch for one or two phrases, guess what, the audience isn't going to hear the beautiful line that the sopranos just sang, they are only going to hear and focus on Billy, and in the meantime they will also probably miss the text of the piece as well. So is the audience that's unknowingly focused on Billy and also missing the lyrics of the piece still hearing "music" from the ensemble? I'd say no, they aren't.

[@PianoRevisited]

@@PianistAcademy1 I get what you are saying 100%. In fact for me what makes it most obvious that a piano player is a beginner is that they SOUND like a beginner. And it is the ability to play with feeling and be able to emphasize the proper notes in a piece while playing smoothly is what separates the more advanced players. One example for me is listening to someone like Jon Michael Ogletree ( also on KZbin) play his versions of various pieces, such as " Misty " or " Crazy " and paying particular attention to the nuance and feeling he pours into his playing and then trying to emulate that when practicing the piece, which I download on Musicnotes. What I've found is that over time, the greater the number of pieces I've added to my repertoire, I've gradually build up various technical abilities, so that after six years of practicing ( not including the lessons I had as a child ) working up to two hours a day, I found I can finally play that pesky middle section of Clair de Lune and make it sound right. In other words, you're not going to get there without a lot of hard work one way or another. What I 've found is I take something positive away from every piece I work on and as I do that my brain is remapping so that the new technical ability becomes available for other pieces as they come along. But I spend a lot of time listening to the top pianists because ultimately I want to SOUND like them when I play the piece.

[@PianistAcademy1]

@@PianoRevisited yes I can agree with all of this. Since it seems like you are a fan of arrangers and stuff available on Musicnotes, I hope you’ll check out my other channel (youtube.com/@CharlesSzczepanek?si=AAwF8McTytu8-Hgj) where I’ve extensively posted originals, and arrangements of various music for the last handful of years, all of which are available on Musicnotes and many on my own website as well. Jon Michael and I have talked about doing a collaboration for a couple years now (despite being very different style players), we just haven’t gotten around to it!

[@PianoRevisited]

Thank you very much. I will definitely check it out !

[@PianoRevisited]

@@PianistAcademy1 Thank you ! I will definitely check it out !

[@Jwellsuhhuh]

I can play all 12 major scales subconsciously but I can’t read for shit - am I still a beginner??

[@PianistAcademy1]

Sight reading is a skill, just like any other, that takes dedicated practice to improve. My true answer to your question would really depend on just how long it takes you to read something compared to something you can technically play well. For most pianists, sightreading abilities lag behind technical abilities by 3 to 4 levels. So if you are playing level 4 rep, can you sight read level 1 rep decently?