What the Church means by purgatory?

This exclusive preview clip was from CATHOLICISM, Episode X: "WORLD WITHOUT END: THE LAST THINGS".
Check out the blog post here: fallibleblogma....

[@bornagainsaint1]

since the RCC believes that Jesus suffered for all the sins of the world including the guilt of those sins, then why do we have to go to purgatory to suffer for our sins? Does the RCC find any value in Jesus' suffering?

[@RDRWindwaker]

If this video accurately represents the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, then I could logically accept it as being consistent with Christ's sacrifice on the cross. But I have yet to see any Biblical evidence of purgatory. Is there any?The few verses people have offered me have been thoroughly unconvincing. If not from the Bible, then where did the doctrine of purgatory originate? I'd appreciate if you did a video on this.

[@JSVKK]

About Purgatory,there are people have experienced it and revealed it to the world ,not just by one person or not just by any particular race .You cannot deny something which you have not seen or you have not experienced.

[@WorkingCatholic]

Part 2 However, there is nothing in the Bible that contradicts Catholic teaching. The Bible does not specifically say there is Purgatory, but it does not say there is not, and the belief in Purgation makes more biblical sense than its absence would. Rev 21:27 tells us nothing unclean shall enter heaven. Are most people "ready for Heaven" when they die. Are their souls spotless? Or might they need some additional sanctification?

[@ksink74]

Have you ever made a deep personal commitment to lose weight? If so, you would surely observe that your old pants didn't suddenly fit again. You had to exercise-- run, lift weights, etc. Have you ever been sore after physical exercise? Why hurt yourself? Does deliberately hurting yourself bring better health to your body? Finally, if Jesus suffered, died, and was raised again to purge us, then why must we conquer our addictive sins?

[@cbooth151]

Is purgatory a Bible teaching? Not according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, which says: "In the final analysis, the Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not Sacred Scripture.” U.S. Catholic, March 1981, p. 7, says: "The church has relied on tradition to support a middle ground between heaven and hell.” So, what should you believe? The Bible or Catholic tradition?

[@jonathaneaslick3204]

Purgatory is not a place between heaven and hell. Did you even watch the video?

[@cbooth151]

Jonathan Easlick Did you bother to read my two quote from Catholic sources? Apparently not.

[@maratom34]

Are you saying that the Bible speaks of only heaven and hell, but not a third place?

[@jonathaneaslick3204]

1) Who cares? The books of the bible are a work of Tradition, so is the Trinity. Where is the word Trinity in the bible, brother? 2) The U.S. Catholic is not the official voice of the Church, and just because there is "catholic" in the name doesn't mean it gets to define doctrine. Purgatory is not a third place, but the final purification before heaven,which the bible speaks about. But what do I know?

[@cbooth151]

+Jonathan Easlick "Where is the word Trinity in the bible, brother?" Answer: NOWHERE! However, is the _concept_ of the trinity in the Bible? To see if it is, all you have to do is compare the Bible with what the trinity doctrine says about God. If the two agree 100%, then it would be clear that the trinity teaching is based on the Bible. But, is it? Let's see. 1A. THE BIBLE says the Father-a single person-is the “only true God.” (John 17:3). 1B. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “every Person [of the trinity] BY HIMSELF [is] God.” That’s THREE GODS! 2A. THE BIBLE says that “for us there is one God, the Father." (1 Cor. 8:6) 2B. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “we worship one God IN TRINITY.” 3A. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John 14:28) 3B. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “In this trinity, NONE is greater…” 4A. THE BIBLE says Jesus is the Son of God. (John 20:31) 4B. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says “Jesus IS God,” which makes him a different God from the “one God in trinity." 5A. THE BIBLE says the “Father is greater…” (John 14:28) 5B. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE say that “the whole three persons [of the trinity] are “co-equal.” 6A. THE BIBLE says the holy spirit is not God, but a possession of God and that he gives it to deserving ones. As 1 Thess. 4:8 says: “Therefore, whoever disregards this, disregards not a human being but God, who (also) gives HIS holy Spirit to you.” 6B. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says that “the holy spirit IS God.” 7A. THE BIBLE says that the Father is the ONLY person that “the true worshipers” (Christians) should worship. (John 4:23) 7B. THE TRINITY DOCTRINE says: “The trinity in unity is to be worshiped.” So, do the Bible and the trinity doctrine agree on who God is? Absolutely not!

[@MatthewWarner]

Nobody is suggesting that we need to "corner" God or "force his hand" in order for him to forgive us...at least that is completely foreign to Catholic teaching. Again, I think you have a complete misunderstanding of purgatory and what the Catholics believe about it. If one views it charitably, I find purgatory very compatible with everything you just insisted upon. In fact, I think it helps us to understand such beliefs even more deeply and to become even closer to Jesus. That's the goal right?

[@MatthewWarner]

I'm not following you. It's not really about deliberately hurting yourself. It's about giving up the niceties and comforts for God's glory. And embracing suffering as a vehicle of purification when connected to Christ's suffering. God call's us to be perfect. And nothing unclean can enter heaven. Jesus redeemed us all - no question. But we still must be cleansed to enter heaven. Suffering (whether here on earth or in purgatory) is a most powerful sanctifier.

[@WorkingCatholic]

One more example just occurred to me. David sinned by arranging Uriah's death and having an adulterous relationship with his wife. In Sam 12:13-14, we see that the Lord has forgiven David for his sin, but that he would still be punished--his child (with Bathsheba) would die. This story shows that even though our sins are forgiven, there is still punishment for them. If our sins are not so grievous to send us to hell, we will go through purgation to purify our souls before entering heaven.

[@ThomistC]

Purgatory in the Bible #The Argument for Purgatory Premise 1: There will be neither sin nor attachment to sin in heaven. Evidence of p1: "But nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]." (Rev. 21:27) Premise 2: We (at least most of us) are still sinning and are attached to sin at the end of this life. Evidence of p2: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8) Conclusion: Therefore there must be a period between death and heavenly glory in which the saved are cleansed of sin and their attachment to sin. Evidence of Con: 1 Cor 3.13~15 13 - Each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sorf of workeach one has done. 15 - If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. #The Old Testament 1. 2 Maccabees 12. 44-45 Comments: In II Maccabees 12:39-46, we discover Judas Maccabeus and members of his Jewish military forces collecting the bodies of some fallen comrades who had been killed in battle. When they discovered these men were carrying “sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear” (vs. 40), Judas and his companions discerned they had died as a punishment for sin. Therefore, Judas and his men “turned to prayer beseeching that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out… He also took up a collection... and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably… Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.” #The New Testament 1. Matthew 12: 32 : "And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." Comments: This declaration of our Lord implies there are at least some sins that can be forgiven in the next life to a people who already believed it. If Jesus wanted to condemn this teaching commonly taught in Israel, he was not doing a very good job of it according to St. Matthew’s Gospel. 2. Matthew 5: 25- 26, Luke 12: 59 : “Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny” 3. 1 Peter 3. 18-19, 4. 5-6 18 - For Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the sake of the unrighteous, that he might lead you to God. Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit. 19 - In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison, 20 - who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. 5 - but they will give an account to him who stands ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 - For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead that, though condemned in the flesh in human estimation, they might live in the spirit in the estimation of God.

[@ewaldradavich7307]

@chung. What is the point of Jesus crucifixion if we must go 2 purgatory 2 pay 4 sins? Then Jesus isn't who He said he was & died 4 nothing

[@wjm5972]

@@ewaldradavich7307 we don't pay for sin in purgatory the remaining non deadly sins or attachments to sin are burned away and we are completely clean and it is all part of jesus sacrifice to remove our sins, it just happens after we die and not before . It just proves how incredible Gods mercy is that even after death he can still bring us in to heaven

[@ewaldradavich7307]

@@wjm5972. U r following rc teaching, which is not scriptural. By believing in purgatory u r denying Jesus suffering, crucifixion, death & resurrection & TOTAL payment 4 our sins.

[@wjm5972]

@@ewaldradavich7307 It doesnt deny it all, it simply shows how powerful Gods mercy and the reach of Christs sacrifice is that God can still save those persons even after death

[@ewaldradavich7307]

@@wjm5972. I'm not seeing the purpose of purgatory when Jesus said it is finished, paid in full. Just like when you go to a store & pay for your item and they give you a receipt that says paid in full. It means you don't owe any more 4 what u bought. Just like u buy a car & pay cash. No one is going 2 come 2 repossesse it. Because it's paid for. Same with those who put their faith & trust in Jesus as savior. He paid it all and to Him I owe.

[@bornagainsaint1]

Jesus purged all sin on the cross,these people who "came back" from purgatory are demons trying to get you to put your faith & trust in purgatory to cleanse you instead of putting ur faith & trust in Jesus' saving blood sacrifice. The RCC has you convinced that purgatory cleanses what Jesus did not accomplish on the cross. Read the bible it gives us an absolute promising hope in Jesus' saving blood sacrifice. I have & still experience complete forgiveness from Jesus bcuz of His bld sacrifice.

[@bornagainsaint1]

by deliberately hurting yourself to purge your own sins, you are wanting/forcing God to look at you instead of looking at Jesus. Jesus took the hurt willingly for us and His Father was satisfied, Isa 53. purgatory does not exist.

[@WorkingCatholic]

Part 4 The best scriptural evidence for Purgatory, however, is probably 2 Macc 12:44-46, but that probably won't appear in your Bible unless you have a Catholic Bible. For some unexplainable reason, most Protestants recognize Martin Luther as having the authority to change the Christian OT, the Word of God, after 1500 years. In place of the OT used by Jesus, the Apostles, and every Christian for over 1500 years; Luther inserted the OT used by later Jews who persecuted the Church. Go figure??

[@WorkingCatholic]

Part 1 "But I have yet to see any Biblical evidence of purgatory. Is there any?" The notion that authentic Christian beliefs must be found in the Bible is flawed. The earliest NT writings were 15-20 years after Jesus' resurrection, and the Catholic Church didn't establish the canon of the NT officially until the end of the fourth century. Early Christians believed in purgatory but would never think to ask "Where is that in the Bible." Even the Bible defers to Sacred Tradition and the Church.

[@ksink74]

You are not deliberately hurting yourself to purge your sins. You are accepting God's purgation, which you know will sting. As sinners, we are addicts. That is, we are addicted to our sins. Ask any recovering alcoholic about rehab and withdrawal symptoms. Alcoholics Anonymous is not about deliberately hurting yourself to please some sadistic judge who demands an eye for an eye. Withdrawal is a necessary path to walk if one wishes to recover from alcoholism. So it is with our sins.

[@MatthewWarner]

You should check out: catholic[dot]com/tracts/purgatory

[@iconaclastor]

"To be absent from the body is to be present with the lord." There is no purgatory.

[@ThomistC]

Hope this helps a little. I'm working on purgatory thesedays. "Scripture is very clear when it says, "But nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21:27). Hab. 1:13 says, "You [God]... are of purer eyes than to behold evil and cannot look on wrong..." How many of us will be perfectly sanctified at the time of our deaths? I dare say most of us will be in need of further purification in order to enter the gates of heaven after we die, if, please God, we die in a state of grace. Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage." - from Catholic.com on the purgatory

[@iconaclastor]

Pure conjecture on your part based on flawed assumptions especially "I dare say most of us will be in need of further purification in order to enter the gates of heaven after we die". That is not taught in scripture and wanting to belive it does not make it so. You are rejecting the scripture I i mentioned "To be absent from the body is to be present with the lord." There is no purgatory." There is no process for a believer to go through but an instant translation into heaven.

[@ThomistC]

iconaclastor It means when you're dead you can't do things with your free-will any longer unlike when you are on Earth. To be present with the Lord is to free fall to the Lord only with your soul. You are now in the state where everything in you is processed according to the Christ's will and judgement with no resistance. If you are unclean, of course you can't and are not worthy to see the beatific vision of God the Father. The purification process is necessary for people whose souls are imperfect. Of course I wanna see God the Father right away if I die, but if I'm not clean, He doesn't deserve the soul of myself.

[@ThomistC]

+iconaclastor Brother, the scripture you're trying to quote is 2 Cor 5. 6~10, I think. 6- "So we are always of good courage; we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight." Saint Paul doesn't not say that there's no purgatory nor being absent from the body is instaneously or automatically being with the Lord. And verse 10 says: 10 - "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or eveil, according to what he has done in the body." 1 Cor 3.13~15 13 - Each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sorf of workeach one has done. 15 - If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. Paul constantly mentions throughout his letters that purgaging process will be inevitable for the souls that are not perfectly holy. Faith is important, but if we don't cooperate with grace that is given to us, it means nothing.

[@iconaclastor]

If you are with the Lord being absent from the body, where are you? In heaven because the Bible teaches that after Jesus resurrected He sat at the right hand of God. Look at the Book of Revelation, Jesus is on the throne in Heaven which is where Paul says he is while he has his vision. The scripture you mention about being burned up is clearly talking about the "works" of a person not the person. You need to accept what the Bible says not what you want it to say.

[@WorkingCatholic]

Part 3 Mt 12:32 seems to imply that some sins can be forgiven in the next world. Sins can't be forgiven in hell, and there is no sin in heaven, so where might this occur? Purgatory. (by the way, Purgatory is not so much a place, but a process, but that process has to happen somewhere.) 1 Cor 3:15 can't refer to hell because no one is saved from hell, and it can't refer to heaven because no one suffers there. So where is this middle state? Purgatory. You might also read 1 Peter 4:6.

[@wjm5972]

1st John :5 verse 17

[@WorkingCatholic]

@@wjm5972 Yes, what about it? There is mortal sin, and there is venial sin.

[@bornagainsaint1]

Jesus has put away all sin by His saving blood sacrifice, so why do we have to go to purgatory to suffer for our sins? Purgatory doesnt make any sense at all when Jesus put away all sin and its guilt. 2 Samuel 12:13-14 has nothing to do with purgatory. If you're using 2 Samuel 12:13-14 to prove purgatory exists then you will have to say that the baby went to purgatory too, which is not where the baby went. David said "I will go to him, he cannot come to me". David went to heaven; yes or no.

[@bornagainsaint1]

"no pain, no gain" - does not refer to purgatory.

[@MatthewWarner]

Actually, that's not true at all. The Catholic Church (RCC) believes Jesus "suffered for all the sins of the world." The Catholic Church also believes that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and is true. Not sure where ur gettin the misinformation about Catholics. The Catholic view on suffering is much more nuanced than you seem to be giving it credit for and truly helps us find value/meaning in our suffering by connecting it to Jesus' suffering and our own sanctification on this journey.

[@richard22199]

Our sin has been put away by Jesus blood, so we will have eternal life. 『Nevertheless』, whether we would get punished or not is determined by Jesus, not by ourselves. Jesus is the judge. This is why Purgatory is reasonable. == 2 Samuel 12:13~14 "Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.『Howbeit』, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die."

[@bornagainsaint1]

i agree we must be strict with ourselves in order to conquer our addictive sins but deliberately hurting our selves doesnt conquer our addictive sins. to conquer our sins we must stop doing them, that in itself is hurting. but to starve, whip or whatever ourselves doesnt solve nor stop the problem of our addictive sins; Jesus is there to help us overcome. Jesus died and resurrected to purge us, not purgatory, purgatory doesnt exist, Jesus does.

[@richard22199]

If you read Matthew 5:22~26 carefully, you will learn that: If a man says to his brother, You fool, he must go FIRST to be reconciled to his brother; and THEN come to the altar and offer his gift. Otherwise, if the man is [judged by God/brought to the judge by his brother], he will be cast into [hell fire/prison]. The man shall NOT GO OUT from thence TILL he has repaid the last farthing. That is, he must repay the last farthing in hell fire BEFORE going into heaven. Hell fire here => purgatory.

[@christophermartin8685]

No pain, no gain, as the saying goes. lol

[@bornagainsaint1]

Jesus took all the suffering and punishment for our sins. Purgatory does not purge, Jesus did that on the cross. many years ago i honestly thought that if i could put my hand on a hot burner then it would make up for all the sins i had committed, and that the Almighty would accept my suffering and forgive me. nonsense !!!! when we do such a thing we are forcing His hand to love and forgive us. we dont need to corner Him in order to forgive us. His blood sacrifice satisfied His heavenly Father.

[@bornagainsaint1]

the thing is, what these people are doing in this video will not solve their sin problem, it is mindless repentance. It was meant for Jesus to suffer and die for the sins of the world, He suffered for us, there is no reason for us to do horrible things to ourselves to conquer our addictive sins. to conquer sin we must look to Jesus to help us. what these people are doing will not solve their sin problem, bcuz they will sin again the next day. to solve our sin problem we must look to Jesus.

[@bornagainsaint1]

purgatory doesnt exist, it is either heaven or hell. Jesus' saving blood sacrifice saves us from hell, therefore heaven is the promised land or home given by the Father through Jesus' blood sacrifice.

[@bornagainsaint1]

Jesus did it all on the cross. we couldnt suffer enough for our sins. Jesus suffered all for the sins of the world, and this is something that the RCC doesnt believe nor does the RCC understand that the bible is the truth. the bible says that Jesus suffered all for sins but the RCC doesnt seem to understand this. He suffered, His blood sacrifice saves, believe this and we are on our way to heaven. trust in His saving blood sacrifice.