What These Men did to SURVIVE will HAUNT You | The Forlorn Hope

What would you do to survive?
This true story takes place along the California Trail out west in the 1840s. When the journey is delayed and winter comes early, the desperate group of emigrants must rely on their two Native American guides to lead a rescue party through the Sierra Nevada Mountains. What they do to survive the mission will HAUNT you.
Patreon: patreon.com/DatesandDeadGuys
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Script written by Derek Deremer
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RESOURCES AND READING MATERIAL
Indifferent Stars Above by Daniel James Brown
History of the Maidu
frth.org/histo...
The Eastern Kuksu Cult by E.M. Lobb
digitalassets....
Endless Winter: A Fresh Look at the Donner Party Sage by Carly Severn
www.kqed.org/n...
History of the Donner Party, A Tragedy of the Sierra By C. F. McGlashan
The Expedition of the Donner Party and its Tragic Fate by Eliza P. Donner Houghton
tile.loc.gov/s...
Inside Sutter’s Fort Museum
suttersfort.or...
The Donner Summit Heirloom, January 2017 Issue 101
www.donnersumm...
Get Naked and Dig: The Bizarre Effects of Hypothermia by Marc Lallanilla
www.livescienc...

[@leesquire4235]

My man. I'm a total stranger. You don't know me. I have some diseases, that mean I spend a lot of time awake when no one else is. Too sore and troubled to have the focus required for reading - my greatest passion. So I listen instead, to you, and your tales. Thank you, for not being overly dramatic, and not overly injecting yourself into these accounts. KZbin to some, is an excuse for narcissism. You are respectful, and fair, and thoroughly enjoyable. Keep up the good work, and thank you.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I’m terribly sorry to hear that. One of the main reasons I started the channel was to tell people the stories from the books I read. I’m happy to hear you have enjoyed the channel and that it offers something in return. Thank you so much for your kind words.

[@whaguitars]

100% I love his presentation style!

[@ticket2space]

❤

[@dal8963]

MY YOU BE BLEESED WITH HEALING IN JESUS NAME AMEN

[@whaguitars]

@@dal8963 Amen.

[@OpinionFromGenX]

Immediately, I was suspicious of this being the Donner party story through a different lense.

[@phoebehill953]

It was the “unproven shortcut”, right?

[@Ran-o4z]

@@phoebehill953 yep. that's the one that I got. then came down here to read around. see who else got that. lol

[@whocares502]

Sometimes the best meals are the friends we make along the way

[@conniep8616]

Oh my gosh!!!! You went there!!!!! LOL

[@mohammadalbo2807]

Man!! This channel is so underrated.

[@mikef.1000]

There is cannibalism because of necessity. And then there is betrayal.

[@datesanddeadguys]

There is also ritual cannibalism. Wait until I get to the Aztecs.

[@bullbutter9699]

@@datesanddeadguys Vagina eating is still practiced quite often to this day.

[@HLStrickland]

@@datesanddeadguys Please do a video about the Pequot in New England.

[@GrasslandsG81]

Oh, man ... are you gonna go there??? SWEET!!! After the Comanche, Kiowa, Apache​ and Tonkowa, where else can you go, eh??? @datesanddeadguys

[@SvetlanaVladimirova8590]

That was truly a terrible and exciting story. You have a wonderful gift for transforming history into a gripping tale. Thank you!

[@daniellemora4724]

This guy is THE BEST!!!!

[@thomasmarkle3721]

I don't know the narrator's name but he does an outstanding job. Great channel. I'd recommend more stories like this now that his Apache/Commanche series is done. Maybe more frontier stories like this from a different, less common or deeper dive angle or perspective. I've been a fan of Daniel Boone since I could read. Maybe the history of the Iroquois, Cherokee, etc? The Alamo? The Oregon and Mormon Trails. I might not be as interested in the history of Europe but the way this guy approaches stories might change my mind. BTW, I love the humor, ie his reference to totem poles. ;)

[@datesanddeadguys]

I have a few things on the horizon. A long time ago, I did a story on Lewis Wetzel. Regardless, that project made me love the Indian Fighter stories and I have debated doing a series on them. Perhaps a redo a Wetzel, The Ohio River Region in general. Kit Carson, Daniel Boone, Liver Eating Johnson. There isn’t a shortage. But in the short term I have two more videos along the lines of this one. With a Donner focus. Then perhaps a new series on the Lakota or the Aztecs. Like yourself, there have been a lot of calls for the Iroquois. Although, I am not as well read on them. That would be an undertaking.

[@thomasmarkle3721]

@@datesanddeadguys thanks for the reply. Good luck and keep up the good work!

[@branni6538]

The artwork in the pictures shown is exceptional!

[@ElizabethGrindon]

Yeah, it's great! Really enjoyed that part of this.

[@ruthkomen7817]

I am South African. Just loving your stories. Learning so much.

[@Ran-o4z]

what's the most interesting stuff you have learned?. I'm up in Canada, but grew up with these stories as well. penny for your thoughts?

[@markthomas4083]

Such a grueling journey to traverse, all the way from Missouri. I feel for the oxen, horses, guides and immigrants. The story represents a small portion of some of the thousands who made the journey west. I can’t imagine the horror’s faced along the route.

[@BWIL2515]

To choose who is expendable is absolutely terrifying but to bring children and old is just as bad the healthiest only but in this case damned if you do and damned if you don't man what a terrible terrible experience. You always bring me in the story I don't think I could get any closer without being there thanks again for sharing your gift of story telling

[@HLStrickland]

I got chilly listening to his telling.

[@fireborn9065]

I've grown up in Colorado and heard of the Donner party my whole life, but didn't equate this story to that until you said the lake had been renamed. Love the perspective you bring to history, brother! Keep up the great work!👍

[@dariusbaja21]

My Saturday just got a whole lot better 😊

[@CarsonHassler]

This channel needs more subscribers!!

[@datesanddeadguys]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

[@thomasmarkle3721]

Love the pictures/graphics!

[@Thecathunter]

Great work your store telling I believe is some of the best if not the best I have ever heard. Your research is great! I will be watching for the next one.

[@evelyntanswell3311]

I look forward to your videos. Thank you so much for telling and explaining how life was back then. I find it fascinating! Life must have been so harsh! Just existing while traversing an enormous, largely unexplored country. Frightening! ❤

[@datesanddeadguys]

Unfathomably large. To think people used to have to make the journey on foot or by wagon is absolutely crazy.

[@HLStrickland]

I have heard this story of the Donner Pass and the Forlorn Hope before, but not in this kind of detail. Thank you.

[@lorilove4706]

Throughly enjoy your storytelling of the old west. Those people had such a difficult life.

[@stanwilliamson2375]

Really enjoy your historical depiction of the unknown and forgotten past

[@kolbii7610]

It’s really a small world! I doubt you’ll remember me but at a younger age having your class really made me love history, I haven’t lost it one bit. I have always watched videos on history, but one day I got down a Native American rabbit hole and stumbled upon your channel. I’m glad I did, I have been watching every upload for the past few months! I hope you are doing well and continue to put out great content. Thanks, Colby

[@carleto9597]

Another good story, thanks for the video, great as usual.

[@joannemcfadden6405]

I knew at the beginning that this was about the Donnor Party. The reason is I did a deep dive after listening to another story about them around a year ago. Such a sad time for those explorers. I would have hated to live back in those days. Days when women had no say as to stay put or follow some fools into uncharted territory.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I have been working on a project with Fanny Kelly, a Sioux captive. Same kind of story. Poor 19 year old girl moving west. Married just a year.

[@royflores99]

Should’ve known what was up with natives 😂 it was war! Long before the settlers kept deciding to expand westward

[@dougdillon1271]

This is a great channel! Thank you for these stories!

[@CedarSmoke14]

I knew it was the Donner party when you said "the Serria Navada". Great storytelling, I enjoy your videos.

[@andreweden9405]

I knew that you were referencing the two Indian scouts, Luis and Salvador, just from seeing your thumbnail, before I even clicked on the video.

[@datesanddeadguys]

That's pretty cool. I wonder how many folks thought of that too.

[@phoebehill953]

A person who has suffered extreme hunger and/or extreme thirst can understand the desperation it can engender. A person can do something he would never think possible. However, drawing straws because of some tummy rumbling - that’s reprehensible!

[@DougieBee]

When you said, “Truckee Lake”, I knew for sure this was the Donner Party.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I was banking on a lot of folks just knowing it as Donner Lake. It has been fun reading what people picked up on.

[@ccccccasey]

I knew this story but I did not know alot of the key details you spoke of. awesome work!

[@JoeyDediashvili]

Super trippy to hear this story as I stand on Miwok land in the Sierra foothills. The snow capped Sierra in sight.

[@dondamon4669]

36 hrs!! Jesus i go days without food!

[@griffini19]

But burning how many calories? It’s a different situation

[@MicheleHill-wv2wc]

I knew you were talking about the Donner party as soon as you started your story. Cuz I love history😊

[@wombat3455]

An excellent briefing that explains the moral choices with great clarity

[@charlenestrauss3539]

I've heard some of the story before, but not all this detail. Heartbreaking.

[@LibertyDankmeme]

another banger story - i love these - you should have 40 million subs in my humble opinion

[@datesanddeadguys]

I wouldn’t want to be selfish. I would settle for 20 million.

[@WickedFloot]

Worst case of karma in human history.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Really an ending that puts it all in perspective.

[@spikemcc]

I had no idea it was that story until the name Donner was mentioned. The hairs stood up on the back of my neck at the gunshot. A terrifying and fascinating story, rivetingly told as always.

[@annavillalobos-young5175]

Love your channel!

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you!

[@1966Heath]

Man, what a bleak, fascinating story. I almost hate to say it but this would make a great horror film.

[@tablestirne9879]

Thats why if you play the computer game Oregon Trail - You Always Choose to get to Willamette Valley First Before Heading To Sacramento 😊😊😊 TO AVOID THE ICY DEATH OF SIERRA NEVADAS 🥶🥶🥶

[@datesanddeadguys]

I don’t think I ever made it that war in the game. I was big on risking everything by wading across the rivers.

[@tablestirne9879]

@@datesanddeadguys yowzas, my biggest worries was snake bite in my team and illness - now those on the oregon trail game was the biggest threat, kinda historically accurate too

[@getoffenit7827]

Ive read a few books and watched a few documentaries about the Donner Party...Louis and Salvador are usually described as little more than guides or food and not much about where they came from. As a kid i used to wonder where their names came from,Did they have native american names? How did they get spanish names? Now i know they likely did have names their parents gave them. Thank you for more background on Louis and Salvador

[@datesanddeadguys]

They did have Miwok names. There is speculation but Salvador may have been born Queyuen and Luis had been born Eema. They were renamed by Spanish missionaries in California.

[@justinwynn7946]

Hey bud. Love your success so far! Keep going forward. Just a matter of time before you really blow up. Great storytelling and really great edits and narrative stops. Good timing, I guess is what I'm trying to say. You're the only channel I constantly check in with. Wish there were more like you. Can I make a request? My wife and I love the story of the boy trying to kidnap the girl he "loves" (I don't want to look up the actual name) it's sweet. It's funny. It's perfect. Few more of those would go a long way with both of us. Anyway. Great work. Keep it up

[@jamesselby796]

I drove a truck in the mid-80s. As I recall it was the winter of '84 it snowed 24 inches every 24 hours for 4 days. At the top of that pass is a sign over the freeway. That has a clearance of 23 ft. if memory serves me right. The snow was about 1.5 ft below that sign. That group was warned about that pass before they left Reno. Why didn't they listen? Every time I went over that pass I thought of that event. Kind of hard not to think about it. As the sign says Donner Pass Summit So sad even today.

[@DavidNichol-d1f]

They've served as a beacon of stupidity for countless Americans since, ironically saving lives to this day, I'm sure. Even in Illinois, we worry about it whenever we're caught off guard by a blizzard. The fact they have a giant sign before the highway that goes through there is hilarious in a macabre way. Like an "are you sure about that?" meme before it's time.

[@andykerr3803]

Well done 👍 Enjoyed my pasta, rice and quinoa... Spent a lot of time in Quebec's northern winters, sometimes in isolation. The conditions are far more severe than Northern California, even at 7000' elevation. Lots of city dwellers would visit on weekends, amazing how fast they do panic when lost, cold and hungry. Biggest threat for sure 👍

[@rambosnake666]

Thank You

[@thrashmetaldave]

From the Dutch 'verloren hoop' literally 'lost heap'. The term was first used in English in the 1500s when speakers misheard the phrase as 'forlorn hope'. The first mention in the OED was in 1539 taken from the writing of Cuthbert Tunstall, bishop of Durham

[@christiansmith4421]

Cannibalism was pretty regular occurrence in native tribes, war and religious ceremony.

[@FrankyBlack]

Yeesh man... brutal.. the things people went through back in the day. We are SO lucky to have huge amounts of food always close by and civilization. Gripping story bro as always. Salute.

[@foofookachoo1136]

It will still be BRUTAL for me, if the stores run out of food, like I’ve heard could easily happen. I’m not able to store any extra food, because I have VERY LITTLE MONEY. So brutal it will be, if there’s no food to buy in the stores!!

[@carolescutt2257]

Woah so looking forward to seeing this xx

[@carolescutt2257]

I find your presentation style so engaging and like 'talking to a friend' as you intended :0] I'm from South West England. Can I ask if this is a profession or just a hobby ? Very grateful for your channel x

[@datesanddeadguys]

@carolescutt2257 Like anyone else doing this kind of stuff, the goal would be to turn it into a career. The channel is growing so we will see. But it’s a hobby. During the day I am a school teacher.

[@andrewmaccallum2367]

Such an excellent channel 👏👏👏

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you very much!

[@andrewmaccallum2367]

@@datesanddeadguys You're very welcome indeed. Keep up your great work 👍

[@BrendaHoltzinger]

Thank you for the information. I really needed to hear this."

[@meredithphillips8613]

you’ve hooked me with fascinating history! Thank you

[@jojo6028]

Was very very good. Great artwork, nice background behind you. And a solid telling!! 🏆

[@clivevanzyl3287]

Great story👍🤷‍♂️👍

[@Doc_Holiday]

I had forgotten most of the details from when I read about the Donner party in school over 50 years ago in school .Maybe I blocked it out lol . Good job very informative informative I don't know why this came across my home screen but I'm glad it did and I look forward to more stories in the future period subscribed * I'm sure they didn't teach us the part about the settlers murdering the two natives In Cold Blood so that they could eat them in school *I knew it was the Donner party early on when you mentioned the Sierra Nevada mountains, I grew up in Sacramento and raised my kids in the Auburn California area

[@datesanddeadguys]

Sounds like those who are familar with the story are pretty sure once you get to the California Trail and the Sierra Nevadas. Thanks for watching and I hope you like what is coming.

[@revmo37]

So glad to have found your channel. Great story selection, research, and narration. I'm happy to subscribe with notifications to see what you have coming next 👍

[@DanBall-bt9ui]

Very interesting story !! Well done ! Thanks

[@calvinaffinito8761]

The father telling his daughters to eat him when he passed is so sad

[@datesanddeadguys]

Right. If you take the time to really imagine yourself in a situation like that, it is just heart wrenching.

[@thomasburns2138]

I recognized it right away but had forgotten the title “The Forlorn Hope” until you mentioned it. The Donner party emerged in the area where I live by Marysville/Wheatland California

[@daviddavis7136]

wow never heard that one, great job brother, you have a gift

[@gregsbox]

Great job delivering this horrible story. I like the way you ended it.

[@TheMNBlackBear]

Sad story. Yet it is a part of our history along with all the rest of it.

[@tomjones8235]

I didn't realize that you were telling the Donner story until you revealed it. I did, however, think that the story you told was remarkably similar to the Donner story. The American Experience has an episode on the Donner party. It told the story of the relief party differently. I may be recalling it incorrectly, but I think in the American Experience's telling only one person made started out on the journey out of the wilderness.

[@haroldhahn7044]

When you gave the date, at the beginning, of 1848, I knew who you were talking about. The Donner party was very late in the season, and made a camp in the mountain pass when they should have all run the last 100 miles.

[@NitroBoarder17]

awesome intro, absolutely hooked me!

[@Txjape70]

Brilliant! Thank you.

[@chillislives]

I knew it was the Donner party story with the thumbnail. Or, the rescue effort part of their story.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I am really curious how many people figure it out before the reveal.

[@thomasferkinhoff2385]

Enjoy your presentations

[@Shaw.77]

That was great. You do a fine job. Keep up the good work.

[@geneotrexler8246]

Good video 👍 The beginning reeled me in and the mention of Sierra Nevada in 1846 said cannibal.🍗🍗

[@dataman1000]

Enjoying your stories from Africa

[@BladesRKing]

Great video and story as usual! Kinda thought it had something to do with the Donner Party as soon as you referred to the Sierra Nevadas.

[@datesanddeadguys]

That seems to be the tell for most folks. I will have to find a move clever way to keep things a mystery next time.

[@MichaelBernhardt-t3q]

Excellent video 👍

[@hunterlittle3843]

Keep it up!

[@DM-wu5hn]

The paintings are spectacular.

[@pegacorn13]

Well that's a horrific story. It's one thing to eat someone who had already died from the elements but to murder and cannibalize your guides is really disgusting.

[@henryanona1640]

I did not realize it at first but shortly into the flashback I started to suspect

[@TheWoodlandCreature369]

Really dig your channel 😊 you have a nack for storytelling.

[@dwainseppala4469]

“Bad luck and winter weather…”. The bad luck: Paiutes raided the Donner party twice as they crossed northern Nevada (not then a state). The Paiutes took most of their cattle. The question: Did those in the Donner party with remaining cattle share their cattle with those who lost cattle? Or did they threaten the starving people with violence should they touch the remaining cattle? I’ve read 70% of the party survived and made it to California in the Spring. Did the survivors enter California with cattle? Bad luck, or just bad people? You see, the story of the Donner party becomes a hoax because of the evil involved, the evil taking place long before the cannibalism.

[@DavidNichol-d1f]

... aliens?

[@dwainseppala4469]

@ the whites being the illegal aliens. If only the Ozzy Man could have documented the Donner Party’s travails. Destination Fucked!

[@chickenfriedrice2932]

Oddly enough, this story made me hungry.

[@donsmith4833]

I like your video. But I did not know that a few starved survivors reached the Indian village. Other historians omit this fact and all they say is that the snowshoe party reached the Johnson ranch.

[@TylerLoftis-e9y]

I love red dead redemptions nod to the donner party with the donner falls location

[@worldobserver3515]

Hell of a situation to be in.

[@adamcortlandt7121]

I love your channel, I'm so glad I stumbled upon it. Your voice and delivery are awesome. The stories are amazing and you are a great story teller!. However I have to mention that your audio sucks. It sounds like you recorded it the bathroom or something. It would really be worth it to invest in a good microphone or process the audio to improve the sound. Once again, great channel. Thank you for your hard work.

[@salty9799]

Yo are you going to cover what happened back at the camp?

[@datesanddeadguys]

Yes. I have two others on this topic planned.

[@salty9799]

@@datesanddeadguys savage I’m very new to your channel and I am liking so far

[@scottkelly7051]

Another home run!

[@victorlockhoff9694]

What a great ending!

[@daledanowski9962]

thanks

[@fanelemabaso2514]

What the heck. The ending is shocking😮

[@Ben-xf7uy]

Love these stories. You should check out Union general Lawrence Chamberlain and the battle of Round Top at Gettysburg. It has to be one of the greatest stories of any leader. Would be awesome to hear some civil war stories or maybe some Mountain men? Jim 'Bloody Arm' Beckworth could be great, pretty sure he even became a Crow chief and tracker for the military

[@davidchosewood647]

Right off the bat dude😂

[@dmcgill8978]

By the time you said they're taking a shortcut to Cali I knew Donner party- 1840s- yup.

[@OrbGoblin]

That's pretty ballsy suggesting to pull straws and then backing out when you bite on draw 1.

[@LibertyDankmeme]

the good Lord has a sense of humor that way

[@jasonwalker3209]

Lol Jimmy Dean commercial ad right after the telling of the killing of Lewis and Salvador

[@Tati_6]

I’m really trying to focus on the story but I can only think about how handsome and well spoken you are.

[@getoffenit7827]

Does anyone else remember the tv movie in the 70s called 'the road to survival'? I dont know the year (1977-78?) it had robert fuller(?) From the tv show 'Emergency!' Yeah im approaching 60 now. Anyway i had never heard of the donner party before that tv movie. After? I wouldnt go cross country skiing in the woods of rural maine anymore! My imagination went berserk! My parents didnt like me going by myself anyway. I eventually went back out,but this time i brought any food i could fit in my pockets cookies,bacon strips and biscuits,candy bars a can of spaghettios and 2 old 'C rations' dated 1943..yeah those i wouldnt be eating..they were for any potential cannibal skiers who might try to eat me..i would hit them with the spaghettios and c rations and as they fell upon the canned salvation like insane ravenous wolves i would escape on my skis putting enough distance between me and them so i could get to my aunts house before they catch me!..i know,over active imagination,But i was 9 and not overly bright or level minded

[@MichaelBernhardt-t3q]

The truth of this story is so sad, because looking at the Truth of us is terrifying 😮🎉

[@harrietyounger6118]

You are protecting your children. I am a living orphan meaning the relationship is dead but my parents are alive. I don't have kids but I have people in my life who would absolutely love my children and would take the role of grandparents. Healthy grandparents. If you have gone no contact it usually isn't your choice. Usually you have been forced to choose between people who hate you and loving yourself. You can't have both if you could you would but it takes two to make a relationship work.(in my case I have had to choose between life and death due to mental illness) You have broken the cycle for your kids you have only denied them abusive relationships xxx

[@Christianwithacamera]

Are you yourself native Sir? You know so much about native history.

[@motorizedbiketrips]

U cray cray! 😅