What To Look For When Purchasing Lithium Batteries With The 12V Guru

Key benefits, do's and don'ts, and what to look for when purchasing a new lithium battery, BMPRO's very own 12V Guru talks through some key points of the lithium battery.
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[@ericklein5097]

4:23 Those aren't plastic sheets. Those are epoxy resin board and thats quite standard in the battery industry. The "goop" you speak of is silicone another material that is widely used in electronics. It is not meant to hold the terminals in place, its more meant to secure the terminals from ever coming loose and also insulating them. The foam is very standard in the battery industry as well, the fact is most of these lithium batteries are being put in cases meant for lead acid batteries so there's a size discrepancy. The best solution is foam. The overall construction does seem a bit shoddy not what I would call terrible. If it's a budget battery then I'd say that's about par for the course, no safety issues there. And at least they are using kapton tape. Is that the only thing compressing the cells?

[@paine1985]

BMS

[@lawrenlink3]

The background music is distracting for me.

[@advandrunen2501]

indeed !

[@lyndoncarter1528]

great video

[@davidjames1063]

Channel Sponsored by Invicta Battery.

[@perthunderground7732]

Seems like every battery has an issue with it except for the Invicta? Important to note these batteries change almost yearly - for instance, the orange lid one has an updated version already.

[@strikemaster1]

A lot to take in for a novice like me... I know very little about batteries, but thanks for your video which helps me a lot. One question.... is it good or bad to leave the AGM or Lithium battery on charge all the time while in storage for 6-12 months?

[@jamieharland9080]

I find this to be the same as knocking light globes for led light !! No comparison !there is no comparison should not be compare two different systems ! You will find faults with all products ! Constantly pushing your product ! Invicta ! The goo is to stop thing coming loose once tensioned ! The tape is to keep things neat ! The music in the background is annoying while trying to concentrate on your information !! However thats my opinion only ! Thanks for your time !!

[@davidclarke6658]

It got me worried too, about hearing about loose (not tightened correctly) internal wire connections inside the battery causing over heating on connections at higher currents on some cheap batteries.

[@samhaveaguess4284]

Love what your saying .. But you are selling AGM well short of there capabilities.. AGM are still a good source of affordable power storage .. Especially if you get a high quality battery ... I've had my AGM for over 7 years and look after it ... All you have to do is make sure you dont let it drop below 50% And keep it 100% as much as possible.. So over estimate the power you need . And get panels that provide more than enough power .. My solar on a sunny day has enough output to run all my devices and still put charge into battery .. So battery realy only keeps fridge running at night..

[@erroneouscode]

"AGM are still a good source of affordable power storage" I disagree, especially in a mobile situation. You need 200Ah of AGM's to equal the usable capacity of a 100Ah Lifepo4 battery and you're then in the $$ ballpark of buying a cheap 100Ah lithium battery. Due to both the internal resistance characteristics and continuous current draw limitations of lead acid based batteries and voltage sag (which increases current draw) You can never approach the usability of a lithium battery at similar Ah ratings. If you try you'll be carrying not 2x the weight which is often touted when comparing the two chemistries, but 4x because of the 50% recommendation of AGM. The space/footprint is doubled which is also a pain in the backside in 4x4 setups. You cannot run higher current devices on AGM's to match lithium unless you have a huge battery bank that is better left on the floor of your garage/shed rather than being carted around. Solar and alternator charging will be limited by the internal resistance characteristics of lead acid chemistry and absorption to 100% (especially the last 20%) will slow down to a crawl when it's only putting in a few amps and you have say 400w of solar panels out that could be putting in more if the batteries allowed. You don't get that with lithium as it will take whatever you can throw at it to replenish it in a timely manner which increases the usable watt hours you can collect, use, and replenish while the sun is shining. I can only envisage one case where someone would still buy AGM today and that is if they have one 12v fridge and maybe a few lights they want to run when camping and they're on a very tight budget. Even still they're wasting money in the long run because of the typical life span, cycle count, and capacity reduction of lead acid. They would be better off buying a 50Ah lithium battery. There's no comparison and AGM have had their day.

[@samhaveaguess4284]

@@erroneouscode Quite a bit of hogwash there .. Warranty periods are similar and many cases are far longer with AGM .. For instance I got a 5 year warranty on my AGM.. And has lasted well past the 7 years now And still going very strong .. Most Lithium off no more than 3 years .. So if they fail in 4 years you screw .. Regardless of the cycle life ... If they bang on about 2000 cycle why do none of them offer a warranty to cover that .. I mean 1 full deep cycle every single day should last you 5 1/2 years .. And when replace AGM with lithium.. It's always recommended to replace like for like .. 100ah with 100ah .. And when it's cold you can't charge lithium .. And when they get hot they shut down . AGM just keep on going .. Lithium cycles also kill them so don't believe the sales pitch that it don't... And lithium also dont like being left 100 charged all the time .. There the future for sure .. But price is still a huge step for many .. $300 for AGM or over $1000 for lithuim ... If the warranty was better may be more worth the step ..

[@TheRuuddy]

Question.....can I use the MK m34 sld G ...... In a car?????

[@paine1985]

BMS should be outside of the battery?

[@sarahgrayson1265]

That’s interesting we got a new caravan with the BM pro system but was given two of the first battery with the blue label. Very disappointing the BM pro don’t make sure the whole system is to the up most high standards. I know your going to just blame the dealership but for someone that has no idea about batteries, I would have like to be informed with a company product I’ll be using only supplying me 1/2 a great product

[@dredre9484]

Got 50p trolling motor 100amp solarking battery still going fine(I hope lol)

[@TerryCassar]

Same thing happened to my Solarking lithium battery

[@mattcallanan3684]

What do you think about hardkorr batteries ?

[@aascarpet5850]

Awesome info❤

[@tyrausfarrelly6257]

Hi, was that 2nd battery that was pulled apart an Itechworld battery?

[@tonykellalea783]

That's what it looks like to me

[@AlexSwan]

Yes

[@matchismo]

None of them catch fire?

[@DW-10]

Nice video. Is that 2500 cycles test to full (100%) discharge/charge?

[@BMPROau]

Hi DW, thanks for your comment, yes the test was to a full 100% discharge.

[@samhaveaguess4284]

​@@BMPROau But you can't run down 100% Discharge on a lithium battery .. As the BMS wont let you .. If it's working right ..

[@philbrooke-little7082]

@@samhaveaguess4284 yes you can. 100% discharged is defined by the BMS low voltage cutoff of 10.5v or any cell which reaches 2.5v. In real life you might want to re-program thin to be a higher voltage but manufacturers do it to get the advertised capacity using the smallest cells. Longevity isn’t what they are looking for, they want an acceptable life that exceeds the warranty. In the same way they might program high voltage cutoff at 14.6v which is an absolute max. In real life 14v will get you to pretty much 100% but without putting the cells into their ‘stress zone’. If you do this you can add a lot of cycles to its life.

[@samhaveaguess4284]

@@philbrooke-little7082 That's exactly what i said mate .. The BMS will not let you drain to 100% .. The BMS shuts it of before getting that low .. And many companies have been caught out now selling well short of there stated output .. Some even 20ah lower than stated .. The BMS can also shut down the cells when they get hot or cold and will stop the batteries charging in the cold .. My mate got caught out with that on on one of his trips .. Got Zero charge the whole trip ..To cold ..

[@philbrooke-little7082]

@@samhaveaguess4284 What I was saying is that it’s the BMS that determines what 0% is therefore it does let you drain to 0%. If you were to try and get any more out by, for instance, bypassing the BMS you would irrevocably damage the cells.

[@hamradiocomms]

*** Excellent video except for the constant music while you’re talking… why do creators do this? Terrible

[@matthewwalker6621]

Question, I have two 200ah lithium batteries that I want to connect in series do I need to put a bsm between them?

[@glendouglass8477]

Is the battery you have there with orange lid a itechworld?

[@nrd6386]

@Bandit Ive had one, Itechworld, for a couple of years now and havent had an issue with it. " goop" on the terminals seals them against moisture, it dosent hold the cables to the terminals, they are bolted. Foam pading is there for protection against vibration fom corrigations etc. Its probably one of the only batteries that has waranty covering vibrations. Its also waterproof where the others are not. I looked into all of this before I made my purchase. Looks to me like they are marketers for Invicta Batteries.

[@erroneouscode]

@@nrd6386 The other less than honest aspect of the video was the swelling. All lithium battery cells can swell, especially when they're allowed to drain beyond the BMS cutoff voltage. Cells at 0 volts can destroy cases/enclosures with expansion.

[@AlexSwan]

@@nrd6386 Warranty does mean much if the company won't uphold it. Buyers beware.

[@davidjames1063]

Downside of Lithium batteries.......they don't perform well in extreme COLD.

[@sproket168]

All made in China. The Itech / kings / Solarking and yes the Invicta batteries too. I cant see how the supplier can have any quality control on a sealed imported product. The fact remains is that off the shelf cheap chinese lithium has a low failure rate. Sneaky way to rag on the competition though. Get that fear going aye.

[@bogsquatch6782]

Not all that much info and forced

[@scouseaussie1638]

Lose the crap music

[@thiccOWL]

the itech battery looks great inside not sure what your on about, kapton tape and insulated board is standard practice, i bet the cells are held together by something else under that insulated board. the foam is there because we have created standards with battery sizes from years of agm/LA, and they are just using the same case size we would expect for the AH. if you are completely filling a standard size 100ah agm case with lithium cells, and not getting at MINIMUM 120ah you are using very low quality cells that have already been cycled hundreds or thousands of times before you buy the "new" battery. look how small that itech pack is compared to all the others including the invictus one your shilling, i bet thats a torn down itech 100ah compare that to the case chock a block full of cells but only getting 125ah...hmmm something smells fishy....also i am not an itech dickrider, just calling it as i see it. i dont even own a lithium yet but am looking to upgrade and its not gunna be invictus thats for sure. also the first battery you show that had thermal runaway is not a cheap ebay battery, its a solar king, they are going for $1500, not 400-500. which i think is even worse and subtracts value from your mantra that more money = more quality when it is not the case with solar king, there are expensive pieces of junk out there too, not just all sub $500 batterys. if you look at a teardown on the new kings 120ah they look really good, prismatic cells, decent bms, and as low as $400 with a reasonable warranty for the price, honestly not a bad deal it seems. but there are nightmare $500 batterys out there, atem power, mobi, and all the other clones of these are horrid, they use a/b expanding foam inside the case to hold the cells inplace, which deteriates with heat and lets the cells bash around in the case. terrible.

[@junglejim4569]

Can't put lithium batteries under the bonnet as the heat kills them. Can't let them get too cold as that kills them also. Lithium reacts violently when exposed to air or water and cannot be extinguished my normal means. I'll stick to the normal lead acid and agm batteries for the safety reasons alone.

[@roonyroo855]

BYD Blades solve all those problems

[@philbrooke-little7082]

Cold doesn’t kill them they are protected from charging below 0°C and heat doesn’t kill them and they are protected there as well. Yes they prefer not to be kept over 55°C but then they are also not designed as starter batteries, they are best for domestic use. LiFePO4, which is what all these are, do not spontaneously combust and do not suffer thermal runaway like the ones in laptops, phones cars, toys etc. They last 10 times longer and have twice the usable energy than a similarly rated AGM which can generate explosive gas if overcharged and is full of a pretty concentrates sulphuric Acid Goop if they do explode. They also weigh less than half as much and don’t suffer from the Peukert effect and can accep a full charge in an hour as opposed to about 10hours for AGM and are also have a 16% greater cycle efficiency. They have transformed my off grid life, which is all of it, and I will never go back to lead acid except as a starter battery and auto give redundancy and alternator protection for when the lithium are full.

[@junglejim4569]

@@philbrooke-little7082 Phil, we are talking about lithium batteries in vehicles. Not a house crawl space. Do your batteries get rocked around, do they endure temperatures well over 60 to 70 degrees Celsius? Do they get wet? Let's compare apples with apples.

[@philbrooke-little7082]

@@junglejim4569 they live on a boat and in an engine compartment and I am talking about the things that actually affect them and the protections they have. The main difference will be the bouncing around will be more in a vehicle but they are very immune to that. Why would anyone keep their domestic batteries in an engine compartment anyway, that is just for the lead acid starter battery which I am happy to admit is the best technology for that however lithium surpasses it in pretty much every way as a domestic battery by which I mean that it runs the domestic vehicle services, not that it lives in a house.