What Was Michael Jordan's Best Bulls Team? | The Bill Simmons Podcast | The Ringer

[@jaysonmagro9131]

Does anyone know if Bill had season tickets to Clippers games in the early 2000s? I've always wondered about this.

[@AngelMartinez-fl7vg]

He mentioned in another podcast he started in 2004

[@christophershaffer3921]

🤣😂😅

[@henryblvd8635]

Goated comment

[@Dnero518]

Nah Bill wouldn't do that.

[@kevinmanginelli6932]

@@Dnero518 he did tho lol

[@charliebrown7188]

I had to double take to make sure that was House and not an independent journalist with like two science degrees

[@hadeselgin]

sondachor That's probably the damage the COVID is having on people on isolation, I'm freaking out

[@scottipippen6554]

The thing with the 96`Bulls was, that their impact was almost worldwide. 92`MJ and the Dream Team made the NBA global. And in 96`, the Bulls were even a theme here in Germany, a 99% football country. Even my Mum was interested in what was going on overseas. When the Bulls won, it even was a thing in the German "Tagesschau", the biggest news show at the time..

[@bradleyboyer9979]

We could argue all day about best team ever. However, I feel very confident that there will never be a cultural impact/aura/specialness like the 96 Bulls. Jordan was the most recognizable person in the world. He had come back from baseball. His personality and ego has never been replicated. You also had the rockstar Dennis Rodman. The bad boy. Pippen was the mild-mannered nice guy. Phil Jackson was an intimidating force. Additionally, the time period mattered. There was no social media. You couldn't see their personal lives under a microscope. They were viewed almost like Gods.

[@vanishing_girl]

Scottie has a 7'3 wingspan and Rodman's is 7'4 it's insane

[@PowerGearPerformance]

Rodman's not longer than Scottie's

[@hadeselgin]

@@PowerGearPerformance that’s what she said

[@PowerGearPerformance]

@@hadeselgin well its wrong

[@BT405]

same as Giannis

[@bradleyboyer9979]

Rodman does not have that long of a wingspan. Pippen, yes. Rodman, no.

[@rushil83]

Short term fluctuations in talent is real too, The 96 Bulls probably did benefit from timing. Some big rivals were having down years - Knicks, defending champ Rockets But same is more true for 86 Celtics. Lakers had a down year and failed to make finals. The Sixers aged and faded after being big rival in early 80s. And the Pistons were a year away from really challenging the Celtics. 86 was just a perfect in between eras year for the Celtics to capitalize on

[@mrmacross]

The best Bulls game in the 1996 season was actually a loss. It was in Denver (of course), and they were getting destroyed in the first half by 33 points or so. They came back in the second half to take a 3-point lead at one point, but then they just ran out of gas. They were 41-3 at that point and we all knew they were good, but this game showed us they weren't willing to concede games, either. No first-half lead against them was safe. I'm guessing every Bulls player and fan had the follow-up game against Denver circled on the calendars. And surely enough, the Bulls killed them, even though Pippen was hurt and missed the game.

[@aarone1981]

I remember watching that game as a kid. It was brutal to come all the way back from 30 points down and then lose! I was devastated... bcuz I was obsessed with Jordan and the Bulls, living in Chicago at the time.

[@munchb4snor457]

like every 2 minutes he makes a claim that just isn't true. 95-96, rik smits is "not really him yet". that was his best career year, lol. he averaged 18.5ppg.

[@gregzilla3139]

@xFangs great pacers centre who was Reggie Miller's number two before it was Jalen Rose

[@razkable]

them acting like pippen and mj were the best ever defense in 96 forget wade and lebron in 2010-2011 especially during their like 21-1 stretch and when they went 13-3 in the playoffs before lebron shat the bed vs dallas after game 1 but even then their defense in 13 of the next 16 quarters after game 1 until game 6 was amazing ...the defense they would play was insane...they did so much and we forget haslem was hurt a lot in 2010-2011 as was miller most of the year they didn't trust chalmers who looked bad in 2010 they played joel anthony a bunch and james jones this is pre battier allen andersen lewis cole the heat played bigs for some reason like juwan magloire dampier and big z and scrubs like arroyo house and eventually bibby it was a slow small roster and wade and james did it all covering 4 guys at one it felt like...it was crazy live...like during that 21-1 stretch I remember they barley had haslem for a bit of it and miller for like a few games but it was just lebron wade doing everything with no bench at all and bosh being a meh defender at best...this is in an era of the three ball not 96 where teams shoot like 6 a game and make 2 still

[@munchb4snor457]

@@razkable miami was ranked 5th in defense that year. Miami was better all-around team (they were 1st in offense) but thibs' bulls' defense was better.

[@kamikazekrush3758]

I agree with you, he keeps saying the 96 bulls are not as good, I strongly disagree, sure Jordan was older, but still great, Pippen was great then, Rodman being brought in was a big deal just because of his energy, toni kukoc was a big addition, brian Williams in 97 was a really good player r.i.p. and ron harper was a solid player, and luc longley was a good banging big man, not great but could wear on good centers after a while

[@scarykurapika100yago2]

Pippen was actually peaking in 95-96 season, his athleticism was still there, defensive and offensive I.Q. but he struggled in the playoffs caused of his ankle and back problems.. he was dominating in the regular season on a stretch averaged 22 pts 6.6 rebs 6.5 asts 2 stls 1blk shooting 50% and 45% from 3pt.. until injuries late in the season.

[@williamkoscielniak7871]

Yup. That would have been far and away his best season had he not gotten injured, and who knows what their regular season and playoff record would have been had he continued to play like that. I think they would have probably would have gone down as the undisputed greatest team ever.

[@your_royal_highness]

Best Bulls team, first championship. Crushed the opposition in the playoffs, lost two games out of 17, lost both games by two points.

[@MrSean3kids]

Please keep the MJ and Bulls coverage coming. These are the topics and deep dives we are supposed to examine in an unlikely event sports is canceled The Bulls were amazing please keep it coming

[@willdg4581]

Bill Simmons with a beard and Bill Simmons with a bigger beard talk about the Bulls

[@simonpiacente3989]

From Chicago and watched 99.9% of MJ's games live (mostly on TV or sometimes at the arena; sidenote old Chicago Stadium was CRAZY for a game), and there are many of us here in the know who would say it's the 90-91 first SUPER hungry championship team. Because it had the best MJ. And the best, hungriest MJ wins out. MJ was always hungry of course but in 90-91 was a level no other athlete has matched in intensity. Every year after '88 he lost a step, but from '87-'90 was his ultimate peak. Spring of '88 being his ultimate, ultimate peak (i.e the 59 on the Bad Boys era). The cool metaphorical thing is that after he reached his max level and began to go down is when he had the team success. But yes, the real deep dive is recognizing '90-'91 has the best Mike, and the best Mike always is the ace card. On another sidenote, if you didn't see Mike from '87-'90 back then you totally missed it.....Not just the greatest basketball player ever, not just the greatest athlete ever, but the greatest person I ever saw play anything or do anything. He was the Michael Jordan of Michael Jordans.

[@Torchforbes]

Having Magic ahead of Bird in your book doesn’t mean you don’t have a brutal bias against the Lakers in almost every argument pertaining to them

[@AngelMartinez-fl7vg]

Specially against Kareem and Kobe. He talked shit about Kobe for years, now he changed the tune a bit after Kobe died.

[@steelwall4396]

@@AngelMartinez-fl7vg All he says about Kobe is he isn't a top 5 playe. He has him at 8 (now it's 9 behind Lebron) That's a fair spot to put him. He just has gripes about Kobe's inefficient play and "fuck it I'm taking 50 shots today" attitude which is definitely fair as well

[@steelwall4396]

Also has Kareem at 3

[@AngelMartinez-fl7vg]

@@steelwall4396 it doesn't matter where he ranked them, he talk a lot of trash about Kareem and Kobe, sometimes in jester, but a few times you can tell he mean it.

[@steelwall4396]

@@AngelMartinez-fl7vg what do you want from him exactly? He has them both as top 10 players ever and basketball icons. Do you want him to worship them? To talk about them as if they were flawless players? Let's not pretend like they were perfect bruv

[@eagletrippin]

16:10 -- CORRECTION: It was the other way around: '92 Bulls played the Knicks (7 games) in the ECSF, *then* the Cavs (6 games) in the ECF ...

[@elliota.1063]

Knicks were in the ECF.

[@elliota.1063]

@xFangs Are you God? If not, how can you know what everyone else cares about?

[@elliota.1063]

@xFangs You have thoughts? I doubt that...

[@eagletrippin]

@@elliota.1063 that was 1993. Simmons was speaking about the 92 bulls team

[@theyinkaquadri]

Elliot A. In 1993.

[@solo13th]

92 is obviously the best Bulls team. Jordan was at his apex athletically and in terms of skill. Scottie’s first real season as a great player, Horace was great. They had size and shooting plus they were the best passing team in the league and had great defense. Top 5 treat in nba history.

[@SuperMisteryMan01]

I would still take the 72-10 team honestly. I believe the fact that the starting lineup is amazing defensively is what gives the upper hand ultimately which in part has to do with how tall and big they are too. It’s a team that can definitely afford to constantly switch which at least in today’s game is extremely valuable with shooters on the perimeter. I don’t think the 92 team could do that as well. I think that defensive edge is what they have which makes them so incomparable to any other team

[@floorgeneral309]

NVS4k SPOT ON. The 96 Bulls had: A. 3 of the 5 best defenders in the league(Payton and Hakeem being the other 2) B. Pippen at his absolute peak C. MJ and Rodman with a chip on their shoulders D. A shorter 3-Pt line that turned Pippen(37%) and Jordan(42%) into Snipers

[@SuperMisteryMan01]

floorgeneral309 even then forget about the shortened 3 point line cuz they could hit it and their bench had knock down shooters also but what made the 72-10 team so deadly is how much they could score from inside the line. In transition with this team forget about trying to stop MJ (which you can’t) but good luck tryna focus on him while you got Scottie, Ron Harper, and Luc Longley coming down also. With all 5 on the starting lineup including Rodman most importantly ready and fighting for the boards. It’s a whole different thing with this team and honestly it’s really a once in a lifetime kinda experience wit that 72-10 team.

[@car9melo]

@@SuperMisteryMan01 rodman is hugely overrated with his time on the bulls, horace was better

[@SuperMisteryMan01]

car9melo offensively? Yea. But Rodman brings much more to the table alongside his defense and rebounding. Man has a shit ton of heart. Which leaks into everyone else.

[@thomasgalvin4069]

Wow House looks different.

[@raisinbigdaddykane9723]

Dressed for the job!!

[@rainkinggw]

Very Keith Olbermann

[@danielcooper3289]

The thing that everyone is forgetting here is who Utah lose in the lead up to getting Hornacek. This is a team that had Dantley, then Eaton and Bailey and Jeff Malone. They didn't simply add Hornacek. The state of the league is bad for top tier teams in 1998. Talent is spread too far, and no decent team got a great pick or key FA signing (except the Magic) that could have made them overnight contenders. Utah in 98 were an average team with 1 star player who managed to keep fit and outlast him competitors. The team is consistently getting worse. Adding in Hornacek doesn't cause them to be better when they are still a scorer down on say, the 92 team and Ostertag is playing Eaton's minutes. Not to mention the drop in Stockton's production. He was down to 12/8.5 by 1998 from the 15/13 guy he was over a number of years. The Jazz didn't get better period, the league just got a lot worse, a lot quicker.

[@nocturne311]

One word: expansion. Okay, I lied. I also just wanted to point out that I think you're overblowing Stockton's drop off in production. He was also an incredibly durable workout freak like his running mate and was still very effective from 1998-2002.

[@Dnero518]

Im not sure how okd they would be in 98 but Dantley and Eaton for sure would've gave them a better chance.

[@fortynights1513]

Stockton and Malone were worse individually, but the scheme they ran was arguably better. Some say that Stockton was doing too large a share of the passing, and while Hornacek wasn't amazing, he was a secondary playmaker that some say made their team less predictable. Don't get me wrong, the supporting cast was better overall in the late 80's and early 90's, but the ball movement was arguably better later.

[@shawnbantz]

92 bulls played 7 against Knicks then played Cleveland. Not the other way around. Love these videos lately.

[@RedPilledDan]

I keep hearing this expansion team talking point against not just the Bulls, but other great teams of the era. To me this argument is absurd until the 95-96 expansion. The Heat, Magic and Hornets all became either fringe playoff teams, playoff teams or contenders within 3-5 years. The only team that struggled for an extended period was the T'Wolves. So essentially this argument says that the T'Wolves single-handedly propped up every good team from 89-95. By the way, BS' precious Celtics missed the playoffs from 95-01, so in such a watered down expansion era what gives for an all time great franchise? Can't blame Petino for everything Bill!

[@kb4231]

Well done.

[@razkable]

I don't see how the 96 bulls beat the 85 lakers with magic worthy kareem scott mcadoo cooper and other role players you probably don't remember..that team was insane coached by riley...they literally were one shot away from beating the celtics 4 in a row in june..guys like wilkes who was not on the playoff roster and bench guys like rambis kupchek spriggs and mcgee never get remembered but they could score too just didn't have to

[@swpdisciple]

Dan Bel the expansion team rationale is legitimate. You’re adding 6 teams in a 7 year span so that’s 90 players. It’s just a math equation...it doesn’t have to be the expansion teams that suck but there were years where 8 teams were under 30 wins. The Celtics simply had bad luck in those years. They held on to the big 3 (Bird, Parish & McHale) to the bitter end. They didn’t trade them and parlay them into pics or younger players. Len Bias passing was huge. That combined with Bird’s back and McHale’s nagging injuries cost the C’s 2-4 titles minimum. Reggie Lewis passed. Missing Duncan in 1997 (also passing on McGrady that year)...like a bunch of other poor drafts (but lucky with Paul Pierce falling to 10 in 1998)...oh and Rick Pitino. It’s actually a miracle the Celtics didn’t suck for 25 years.

[@RedPilledDan]

@@swpdisciple I just don't agree that spreading the 4 or 5 worst players on the previous teams to expansion ones made anyone that worse especially when there was several deep drafts in that time too. You're 100% right about the Celtics though I forgot about Len Bias and Reggie Lewis RIP!!

[@slobberkissintl3548]

If the Orlando Magic are good because they came in and got Shaq and Penny right away, that means the Pistons didn't get Shaq or Penny. The idea is that expansion dilutes the overall depth, not that doormats were introduced

[@puremercury]

If the question is "Which post-1967 team is the most better than its competition?", then I think it has to be the 1995-96 Bulls. If it is "Which 12-13 guys would win a tournament of the greatest teams ever?", then that is a different kettle of fish.

[@charlienorris6387]

Sweeping the 39-43 Knicks is nothing to brag about or the 44-38 76ers. I like the 96-97 team over the 95-96 team. They almost repeat as 70 win champs, and played way better playoff competition.

[@RememberEzio]

This is the first time I've ever seen what Joe House looks like. He looks COMPLETELY different than what I pictured in my head

[@purplemonkeydishwasher4241]

I think he looks different right now than he normally looks.

[@ktj1212]

'96 team vs. Orlando game 2, 2nd half, unreal defense. also game 3. entire game. also game 3 vs the Sonics in the finals. absolute destruction.

[@airjawcruz]

if you watch this at 1.5x, it sounds like a normal conversation pace

[@darrelljones3965]

Guys like Kobe lebron mj create new primes for themselves it’s amazing hw they did that

[@kyleharlow3961]

At 7:35, Simmons claims that there were "6 fewer teams" in the 90-91 season compared to the 95-96 season. Wrong. Charlotte, Miami, Orlando, and Minnesota had all entered the league by 90-91. I think he's comparing the 95-96 Bulls to the 85-86 Celtics in his mind when he says that. The 95-96 Grizzlies & Raptors were collections of role players from other teams. If you remove the Grizzlies & Raptors and put those players back on their previous teams, do the 95-96 Bulls really lose ELEVEN more regular season games that year?

[@razkable]

he forgets to bring up the cocaine issue in the 80's and having the best frontline ever in an era if big slow ball with no 3 point shooting meant rebounds were key..the celtics were great but they were not the best

[@danielmacdonald1991]

pretty sure they lost to the raps that year too

[@kyleharlow3961]

@@danielmacdonald1991 Yes, they did. So playing the expansion teams didn't inflate their winning percentage.

[@mrmike616]

No way on earth that Warriors team could have held the Stockton Malone Jazz to 54 points in a Finals game. 96 Bulls best defensive team ever. Period

[@nicyee3701]

John Stockton and the whole 90s is so overrated. Stockton was point guard and could only dribble with one hand.

[@mrmike616]

Best defensive and best team ever. Case closed.

[@mrmike616]

@@nicyee3701said nobody ever. Lemme guess you’re in your 20s. The best teams of the 90s would destroy these soft pansies of today.😅

[@fortynights1513]

@@nicyee3701He could use both his hands, but Utah’s flaw was that they lacked playmaking outside of him

[@tashrif46]

32:10 people don't remember that Scottie Pippen was having back problems throughput the 1996 playoffs and Jordan also had calf issues during the playoffs as well, for me the 1997 Bulls were better, they went 69-13, had a dominant start in the first three rounds and in the finals, Michael Jordan hit a game winner in Game 1, in Game 2 he was one assist shy of a triple double, in Game 5 he had the Flu Game and in Game 6 he had another game where he scored a lot of points

[@TheLastWalenta]

Rodman would sit under the basket and have Bulls' assistants shoot at the basket at practice to study the way the ball bounced off the rim. I would be surprised to learn that anyone else has done this. That's why he will go down as the best rebounder of all time: he considered rebounds to be his points.

[@2878robert]

Bill simmons analysis is amazing

[@Peekul1]

"it don't mean a thing if you ain't got the ring"

[@awesomereviews1561]

1992 Bulls was the best team.

[@bradleyboyer9979]

We could argue all day about best team ever. However, I feel very confident that there will never be a cultural impact/aura/specialness like the 96 Bulls. Jordan was the most recognizable person in the world. He had come back from baseball. His personality and ego has never been replicated. You also had the rockstar Dennis Rodman. The bad boy. Pippen was the mild-mannered nice guy. Phil Jackson was an intimidating force. Additionally, the time period mattered. There was no social media. You couldn't see their personal lives under a microscope. They were viewed almost like Gods.

[@fortynights1513]

The last part is something that we’ll never get back. No matter how objectively excellent a team is at playing a game, they will be publicized nonstop with mainstream social media the way it is. So the aura of the 96 Bulls is not replicable.

[@melyndawells162]

My boy is near 30 has loved Michael Jordon since he was 2 . Damn fine man 💜💜

[@matthewroche5377]

This is a really weird comment. No offense though. Keep it up!

[@2878robert]

Bills podcast is amazing. Talk more about 92 bulls vs knicks

[@proseminded]

anyone else catch that sneaky Boule/Bullet pun?

[@MrShanester117]

With the 3 point line moved in, shrinking the court, Rodman, Jordan, Pippen, and Harper were impossible to score on.

[@oneshotpony7217]

The Big House!!!! Beard game strong, my boy.

[@paulbutler5052]

Couple of things Bill missed - because of the “rock star” status of the Bulls everyone gave them their best shot - Glen Robinson actually said this on the knuckleheads podcast … and when it comes to the point difference I’ll use a different sport to explain something MJ figured out. Watching tennis during the Fed v Rafa times , Rafa played every point like it was it was the most important point - Fed on the other hand knew the 7th or 8th game of each set was the most important so he would “let the game come to him” (in the words of MJ) and let players give him their best shot , make sure it got to 3-3 and in the 7th or 8th game break the other players serve - knowing that just one break wins the set. MJ let teams give it their best shot but knew the last 5 mins in a game is the important part - he didn’t care if it was 1 point win… (unless someone pissed him off. Then all bets are off)

[@HarryFunmaker]

How many ads can you put in a 44 minute video, KZbin? God damn.

[@greg1741]

SO annoying

[@The-Dom]

Vancouver Grizzlies first win was against Chicago. I remember getting nosebleed seats and getting moved up to floor seating cuz the stadium was empty. Pretty sure we had 5 wins total that season.

[@QuestionEverything562]

Lol crazy, and that's awesome. Hard to believe 90s MJ Bulls didn't sellout every arena they played in during that magical time.

[@psuley1977]

This is not true. Vancouver's first win was against Portland. The Bulls won both games against the Grizzlies that season

[@RedPilledDan]

House: Utah got better cause of 4 expansion teams added 6 years prior. BS: I agree, so let's look at standings Orlando (1 of 4 expansion teams) 60-22.

[@swpdisciple]

cleftintwain spot on

[@gf4670]

The main point is that from about 1990 to 96 the Jazz were always that 55-win, second best team in the West in any given year. Sometimes third best. But Stockton and Malone managed to stay healthy and productive as ever and they outlasted the Rockets and Blazers and Suns and Spurs, etc. in part because of expansion. The expansion draft taking talent away from established teams and the extended draft preventing those .500 teams who are like a 7-8 seed on the come up from getting a more quality draft pick -- what used to be a decent pick at like 12 in 1992 turned into a pick around 18 or 20 in terms of talent by 1996. On top of that, the West back then easily had the bulk of the worst franchises in the league who sucked every year and were eating up too many of the good picks -- Clippers, Mavs, Kings, TWolves, and Nuggets were crap every year and then they go and throw the Grizzlies in there.

[@kb4231]

Miami won 61 games the next year too.

[@mrmacross]

@@kb4231 Agreed. I resisted the expansion dilution argument until I saw that the 1997 heat won 61 games. There's no way that 61-win Heat could hang with the 1990-1991 Bulls team that also won 61 games. But that said, expansion just says there are more bad teams in your league, and you probably get more gimme wins than in years passed. It doesn't make the great teams any less great. All the expansion draft meant was that you could only protect 8 players.

[@danielcooper3289]

The expansion issue refers to more teams with no more talent (unlike the merger in 76). Look at the 64 win Sonic team in 96, the 61 win Heat team in 97 and the 64 (or 62) win Jazz team in 98. Those teams are not better than the 80's Bucks that never made a finals, or even a team like the 79 Nuggets.

[@crosbyhoffman1304]

Pacers were legit in '96 and poised for another potential playoff run, after back to back ECF game 7 losses in '94 and '95, before Reggie's injury, which cost them the round 1 series to Atlanta. Pacers beat the 72 win Bulls twice that year.

[@timsmith1033]

2016 was bout the same as 96, bout the same level of talent, both in water down league. It doesn’t diminish anyone greatness

[@safikadir4369]

2016 wasn’t watered down at all

[@markbantz9699]

Kerr said the 96 Bulls were built to guard any team,and would have been the best team to guard the 17 GS!

[@MrKT410]

Remember the year the Warriors won 73, the Spurs won 67!!! The Spurs literally changed basketball when they destroyed the Heat in the finals and the Warriors were the first team to not only figure that out but have the personnel to take the most advantage of it.

[@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx]

House, if you pull the Warriors back to 96 they'd have the 3 point line moved further in and the illegal defense rule. PLUS the Bulls would be less prepared for their onslaught of 3s, it'd be worse than pushing the 96 Bulls more towards today

[@arcasarcadia3247]

You've got Pippen guarding Stephen Curry, Jordan guarding Klay Thompson, and Rodman guarding Kevin Durant. Three of the top 10 defenders in NBA history. There would be no onslaught of 3's whether in 1996 or 2017. Now... who's gonna guard Jordan?

[@marcusmurphy5505]

Neither of us had any money dude were going to see the Bulls hilarious great podcast bill

[@cyber6sapien]

You can't compare those great teams from the 80's to the teams from the 90's. First of all, those Celtics and Lakers teams had all the top HOF players on the same team. The league was incredibly top heavy. That's why the Bulls were still able to make the playoffs in 1986 while winning only 30 games. If a team has four and five HOF players on the same team, they should never lose in the playoffs. In the 1990s good teams had a max of two All Star players, which created more parity across the league.

[@razkable]

the 85 lakers are the greatest team ever and had jamaal wilkes been on the playoff roster like he was in the regular season they would of easily been the best ever with 9 legit scorers who can get you 10 a night if they had to and 11 guys who can get at least 5 and 12 who can get 4..... ...they were one shot away from winning the finals vs the celtics in bird's peak in 5 games after losing game 1...and won 2 games in boston...let me name you their team magic kareem worthy scott mcadoo cooper mcgee rambis kupchek spriggs lester nevitt and like I said wilkes another hall of famer in the regular season...they had 3 mvps 3 finals mvps and 4 hall of famers plus another all star caliber guy and a 6th man of the year...thats insane....this is peak as a trio magic kareem worthy we talking about here a pg a wing a big the most perfect trio ever put together

[@TakingFlightSports]

72-10 BULLS

[@nocomment1469]

Bills insight is awesome but his "my book , my book" yes he agrees with his own book ... Mind blown .....it's farking goofy and silly

[@EGarrett01]

It's really awkward for people to talk about a subject that they covered in a book or somewhere else in more depth and not mention it. It feels like you're just repeating your own stuff from elsewhere if you don't.

[@lewistee1]

How does who on the all nba team have anything to do with expansion?

[@Norel_Nieves]

😂 Ah the expansion excuse. How about the 6-10 teams that tank every year now days ? That’s not held against the warrior.

[@hijumperr1]

Norel Nieves House brought that up

[@car9melo]

Its not an excuse dumbass

[@Norel_Nieves]

car9melo it is an excuse, both eras had weaknesses, one had expansion teams, cool. The other one has teams throwing games as it main purpose 😂. Which is worse ?

[@car9melo]

@@Norel_Nieves dumbass in jordans day teams were tanking to

[@KTF0]

Teams were tanking then. That's how the Spurs got Duncan. Robinson got hurt for the year, Nique plays well then starts getting benched later in the year. Spurs were perennial playoff contenders with Robinson. Celts, the same year, had an extra draft pick and to try to help on the odds to get Duncan, they had to tank, they had like a crazy percentage to get the first pick (like 1-3 odds with the extra lottery pick).

[@PaulBenjaminJenkins]

The late 3-peat Bulls have to be better than the first 3-peat Bulls, because you have Rodman AND Kukoc in place of Horace. Rodman, one of the best defenders ever and THE best rebounder ever, and Toni more than makes up for the scoring you'd lose without Horace. Also Ron Harper was a much better defender than BJ or Paxson, and then they had Kerr/Kukoc to make up for any 3-pt shooting they'd get from BJ or Paxson. And you can easily argue that Luc Longley is a better all around center than Cartwright.

[@HarryFunmaker]

Kukoc is so underrated. It's sad.

[@kyleharlow3961]

Exactly. 1) Rodman is better than Horace, and during the 2nd three-peat, Rodman was most healthy & most focused during 95-96. 2) Kukoc & Horace have very similar "player value" stats. As the 4th best player on the 95-96 team, Kukoc was better than any 4th best player on the 1st three-peat teams. 3) Michael was SOOOO motivated after the loss to Orlando in the 1995 playoffs. The last time he had lost a playoff series was the 1990 East finals against Detroit. Penny Hardaway admitted,"All we did was piss [Michael] off."

[@eboooo]

The full court press wasn't created to get steals but to make the game a full court game. To increase the speed of the game.

[@AceManning18]

This is true but a side effect of making the game faster is turnovers especially against young/bad teams who get flustered

[@natureboy3200]

If you had a golden ticket to watch either the 96 Bulls, Curry& Durant warriors, Magics Showtime or any Lebron team. Who do you go see?

[@rushil83]

The attention on 90s expansion is misleading. From 76-86, the league added 5 teams. From 86-96, the league added 6 teams. How is that so different? Now, if starts to account for population increases in the US and world, nba expansion hardly equals “watering down”. Add in the massively increasing interest in the nba and basketball in general, and you have a much much larger talent pool in 90s then in the 80s. Second, the average level of play goes up with time. Advantages from coaching, tactics, training, professionalism all get disseminated after someone invents it. It’s just harder to maintain an edge in 90s then in the 80s. In the 80s, if you figured out to not use cocaine, your team had an enormous advantage. A similar advantage in 90s does not exist

[@JeewanthaBandara]

You can make the argument that the first expansion included a lot of established players coming in from the ABA. There was little dilution compared to the mid-90s expansion.

[@josephjohnroe3678]

Because they were adding players from the ABA. Huge difference.

[@phillipschuman4307]

"How is that so different?', you ask? It is the same type of dilution --you're right on that. But the difference is even more dilution (6 vs 5), and adding that extra dilution on an already diluted league. It opened 90 more roster spots (6x15)., on top of the earlier 75 dilution. The average team dipped below having 2 all-stars.

[@nmarshall8995]

Wow bill ,more ads please,I mean maybe an ad after each sentence would make it flow less.

[@falcoisfrosty]

One of the points Bill makes in favour of the 17' Warriors is that the Bulls never had to face a team who was nearly as good at shooting as those Warriors were but what he forgets for some reason is that the Warriors never had to matchup against a physical defensive team like the 96' Bulls who had MJ (who could guard Klay or Steph), Scottie Pippen (who could guard literally everyone on those Warriors including KD), Dennis Rodman (who could more than contain Draymond) and Ron Harper (who could also take turns with MJ at guarding Klay and Steph) even though he acknowledges that they were great defenders and they also never had to guard a team with MJ, Scottie, Kukoc, Harper, Kerr, etc and if Tristan Thompson gave them problems on the rebounding front imagine what Rodman would do... That's my case for the Bulls

[@KISS_MY_CONVERSE]

apparently in the 80s and 90s their were no way to stop teams with three point shooters as major threats. Hakeem Rockets, Run TMC Warriors, Shaq Magic. That magic team can shoot. And who says the warriors dont choke because they never faced a defense in their entire lives that is as physical as rodman, scottie and jordan.

[@joeloomis3425]

Wow you just posted that didn't realize But That's Exactly It That Defense would be Crushing to them Boyz!!! Game 1 would be like Bulls 118 to 81 For Golden devastated state!!! Lmao!!!

[@joeloomis3425]

I f'd that all up for a min haa..

[@car9melo]

@@KISS_MY_CONVERSE lol, those teams didn't shoot like teams shoot now, not even remotely close

[@KISS_MY_CONVERSE]

@@car9melo doesnt matter. U cant rely on them to show up on a night to night basis t ok beat the 96 bulls. I'm looking at curry's numbers against the Raptors he shot 33% behind the 3pt line. And that's without jordan or scottie or randy brown guarding. The warriors would get smashed with ease. The bulls have 3 of the top 5 defenders all time. Case close

[@leonzaduncan2438]

They played Knicks in the 2nd round and Cavs in conference finals in 92

[@tashrif46]

29:20 well no shit. It was not prime Michael Jordan in the late 90s. But he was at an all time high in terms of mental ability and intelligence the late 90s Jordan was better, in terms of explosiveness and all around ability yes the 1988-93 Jordan was better

[@ktj1212]

wtf is Bill talking about??? the '92 Bull faced the Knicks in the semis and THEN played the Cavs in the east finals, not the other way around. and that nasty and-1 layup by MJ he's referring to was over Nance, not Daugherty. and it was even better than he described. a hanging quadruple pump lay up while taking the nit from Nance on the arm. game 6, 4th quarter, look it up. one of Jordan's most underrated plays.

[@kb4231]

Yeah he got 92 and 93 mixed up.

[@isaaccarter4069]

I give Bill as much shit as anybody, but these classic hoop deep dives have been amazing.

[@Fonz23]

‘96 had the ultimate edge factor, REVENGE TOUR!

[@mrmike616]

Heat were lucky to have 1 title. If the Spurs make their late minute FTs in Game 6 in 2013, James was 1-3 in the Finals with the Heat.

[@DomClancy]

I'd trust Rodman to Klay, Scottie to cover KD, and MJ to limit Curry. But can the reverse be said to be true? Don't think so

[@lilpenny1982]

My Top 5 best team ever: #1 Chicago Bulls (1996) #2 LA Lakers (1987) #3 Boston Celtics (1986) #4 GSW (2017) #5 LA Lakers (2001)

[@fortynights1513]

Where do the 93 Bulls land for you?

[@lilpenny1982]

@fortynights1513 I feel like 96 Pip was better than 93 Pip and Rodman was better than Horace.

[@lilpenny1982]

@fortynights1513 I say in the Top 10

[@jeancarlos8442]

did the podcast just end abruply?

[@TheMilapMehta]

I don't understand how everyone keeps overrating the 2017 Warriors. They are incredibly fortunate that Kawhi got hurt in game one of the WCF. That team might not have even been in the finals if Kawhi stayed healthy. The next year we saw them benefit from injury again when they would've lost to the Rockets in the WCF and got bailed out by a Chris Paul injury. The 96 Bulls wrecked a legitmate title contender in Orlando who had Penny and Shaq playing at All-NBA levels and a good supporting cast with Horace Grant-Dennis Scott-Nick Anderson. MJ and Scotty would lock up Steph and KD no problem and the Warriors would crumble.

[@UtotheJ]

Milap Mehta I think Bulls would win the series against the Warriors, but in a competitive 6 or 7 games. There’s no need to downplay how great that Warriors team were. If you are going to dispute Warriors’ championship to opponent injuries, you should definitely NOT use the Bulls-Magic series as an example of how great the Bulls were... Nick Anderson wasn’t healthy in the series and Horace Grant played one game in the series... both players (Grant especially) were key reasons they beat the Bulls the year prior. Rather hypocritical, aren’t you?

[@milesaheadpodcast]

The warriors won earlier in that season down by 23 to the Spurs. Where Steph had 29 and 11 without Durant on the floor and Kawhi was on the floor. People forget that Kawhi got injured vs Rockets. Also you can't put any stock into the rockets because James harden and Chris Paul have never ever won anything. Also I think bulls vs. warriors series would be debatable.

[@TheMilapMehta]

@@UtotheJ It's absolutely an oversight on my part about Horace Grant. I completely forgot that he only played one game. Nick Anderson played 37 minutes per game that series so he was still able to contribute. Not sure why he missed game 4, but they were already down 3-0 in the series when he missed a game so it wasn't very consequential. I bring up the Magic because Simmons around the 5:30 mark says he was unimpressed with Penny and is downplaying how good the guy was. Penny had an amazing 2 year stretch during the 95 & 96 seasons before he got hurt so bringing him up and the Magic is important because they were a title threat. The Warriors didn't play a title threat until the finals. Horace Grant also doesn't make my argument hypocritical because it's not a 1 to 1 comparison. Horace Grant was Orlando's 4th or 5th best player. Kawhi Leonard was the Spurs best player and Chris Paul was arguably the Clippers best player in the postseason.

[@tashrif46]

16:15 you mean they first beat the Knicks and then they beat the Cavs in 6 in 1992. In 1993 they beat the Cavs 4-0 before they beat the Knicks in the ECF

[@kb4231]

92 is the best Bulls team even though they didn't roll through the playoffs.

[@elliota.1063]

Yeah, I agree. A team's skill runs deeper than their playoff record, and when they faced must-wins, the '92 Bulls rolled over the opposition. I like Bill's idea of the Bull's best team being from the '91 playoffs to the '92 regular season. Those are considered two separate teams, but that was maybe their most dominant run, factoring in quality of opposition.

[@joeloomis3425]

I've often thought that lol But after doin some rethinkin I'm goin wth 97!! Detroit was rite there wth the Knicks goin 5gms first round in 92 as the Bulls were goin 7gms ecf wthem too when really Bulls Should of crushed the Knicks that yr!! Shouldn't Even been Close 67-15 Everyone bein hyped to repeat!! I just Dont know..

[@joeloomis3425]

@@elliota.1063 I was replying to the main comment there..Hadn't even read ur comment to after I Commented but yea ya got a point there wth Them Playin better Competition Back then as apposed to late 90's..

[@razkable]

o the 97 bulls cause it really was mj pippen vs the world....they would score 51a night and just let their teammates score like 49 and it was scary

[@leonzaduncan2438]

How the hell 91-93 has more weapons Kerr was Paxson level but he was 7th man and not the starter. Harper sacrifice his scoring ability, but was great defender, and could still score when they need him to. I give you Cartwright over Longley, But Kukoc?! Inside outside scoring ability, i already touched on Kerr. 91-93 bench asides BJ that bench is ass.

[@javierrojas522]

Ads are getting out of control!!!

[@Lovlee33161]

NO HOUSE !!! NO!!!!! MY KNICKS PREVENTED THE 70 wins in 97!!

[@jc2367]

Nobody ever makes the comparison of Jordans absence from Basketball to Ali's absence from boxing. Physically both athletes lost something extra from not playing their sport for a long stretch of time.

[@mrmacross]

The 1997 Bulls technically were deeper than 1996, but only because Bill Wennington got hurt and missed the playoffs, and he was replaced by a better player in Brian Williams, aka Bison Dele (RIP). At the same time, though, MJ, Pippen, Rodman, and Harper were all a year older, and on the wrong side of 30.

[@MeMe-td1ye]

Bill Wennington better fit - bigger, good shooter

[@oldenvye6432]

Does anyone have a condensed version of what they meant with Kevin Durant referred to as a cheater and the Miami Heat being considered villains? It peaked my interest.

[@Essexstreet1]

For Durant, some people thought is was unfair when one of the best players in the league decided to join a 73 win Warriors team. Not really cheating, but there was the idea that he took an easier path. The Heat thing was about people being mad at Lebron on how he left Cleveland with "The Decision" on ESPN. Followed by the Lebron, Bosh, and Wade having this big event before they even played a game and talked about how they were going to win like 6 titles.

[@oldenvye6432]

@@Essexstreet1 Cheers, I can see what they mean now.

[@KISS_MY_CONVERSE]

1997-98 also had more teams with 60 or more wins compared to todays era. Also, from 96-98 had more 60 win teams than todays nba. In 2019 only 1 team had 60 wins. From 96-98 their were also more teams with 50 or more wins compared to 2019.

[@chiecheung25]

Sports illustrated was biased. MJ boycot them till this day. I think after 1st 3peat SI said something about Jordan and he never talked to them ever again

[@Pksoze]

I remember there was a cover telling Michael Jordan that he was embarrassing the game of baseball.

[@EGarrett01]

@@Pksoze Yeah and he refused to talk to SI after that. Which is ironic because supposedly he wanted guys on his team who were "tough enough" to handle his criticism.

[@kamikazekrush3758]

Everett01, that magazine used him to makes tons of money, basically ever other issue was him during basketball season, I think they were bitter he wasnt playing basketball, and while I get your point that magazine wasn't his team he didnt get paid from them, so it's a little different situation

[@EGarrett01]

@@kamikazekrush3758 He did the same thing to Charles Barkley when Barkley said he was a bad owner.

[@Kavothizzlafduxbfd]

14:31 Bill pause 😂

[@ignatiusjackson235]

Notice how most of those early '90s All-NBA teams he mentioned are made up of players from the Western Conference. Jordan didn't have to face them as much throughout the regular season or the playoffs. Utah did. That's also why it stands to reason that Utah had a worse record then than in later years, when they might have been a slightly worse team overall. They not only had the same advantage of going up against worse teams due to the Canadian expansion, but Jordan had more competition in the East during the playoffs in the mid-'90s than Utah did in the West. It doesn't blow his point out of the water completely, but it's definitely something to be considered. Numbers can be sneaky like that.

[@BryanInrig]

97 with brian bison dele Williams and chief!

[@bobbyw711]

House lookin like Jordan Peterson over here

[@MeMe-td1ye]

But this guy gets to point

[@CzarsSalad]

The 1992-1993 Bulls is the best Bulls team imo

[@picci8]

Just saw this now as a recommended as an shocked at bills takes. I love listening to him but he’s normally more informed and less bias. The watered down expansion era takes make.m no sense - those teams are still around now, and furthermore the records are worse. Eg the 6 teams under 26 is a cold take as the 2017 there were FAR more teams under 40 wins as there were in 96. I’d even argue back then they would tank on purpose to get a great pick when in 2017 that was frowned upon. What he’s not taking into account is the 16 and 2017 seasons being extremely top heavy. Warriors, spurs, cavs and thunder were the only competitive teams. In 96 there were far more teams with great records which made the competition even better. The take re; Jordan scoring less and not driving - the 3 point line was shorter and the game more condensed. Less possessions and team scoring averages made for a slower game. Also if you watched those sonics finals games, Jordan wasn’t shut down, he was just wasn’t in it. I honestly felt his mind was on his dad. If you watch game one there were plenty of Payton-guarded possessions and Jordan torched him. So, poor takes on tje 96 Bulls. Thinking of the length, defensive prowess, the triangle, and offensive threats I’d say the bulls would beat the 17 warriors, much less the 86 Celtics.

[@Anthonycheesman2024]

Of course hed pick a Boston team lol

[@randywatson6583]

In 92 the bulls actually played the knicks in the second round before Cleveland

[@KISS_MY_CONVERSE]

for all these people that keep picking the warriors as the greatest team ever. Let me ask u this. If the warriors shot isnt falling what are they gonna do. I cant see them dropping 30 on jordans bulls or penny and shaq's magic by attacking the basket. Shaq's magic had shooters all over the place and they were taller. And there's no one to guard shaq. Shaq would average 40 against the warriors.

[@pathfinder375]

Those teams u mentioned barely shot threes. Just by simple maths the warriors would outscore these teams because 3 is bigger than 2. But even if there shot wasn't falling, they actually did score of lot their points in the paint because the defense would often collapse trying to stop the three. Plus how do u defend the warriors? Steph, klay, durant. Neither of those teams have the personal to defend all three.

[@KISS_MY_CONVERSE]

@@pathfinder375 u talk like they make 65% of their threes. They would have to play to perfection just to average 1 point more than the 89 trail blazers.

[@pathfinder375]

@@KISS_MY_CONVERSE don't bring 80s teams into the argument. No one could shoot then and from watching old games, no one could defend either.

[@KISS_MY_CONVERSE]

@@pathfinder375 majority of the top 10 defenders all time came from the 80s and 90s. What r u talking about. And warriors wouldn't be making all those threes. All u have to do is tire the players out and get physical with them. It's not rocket science. Also the warriors made 38% of their threes in 2019. The Bulls as a team is gonna be scoring dam near 50% of their shots. Iggy is no dennis rodman or scottie or rookie blaylock. Hes not gonna lock anyone up. The bulls will win with ease. Just because the warriors r shot jackets doesnt mean they gonna win. The warriors play right into the bulls strength perimeter defense.

[@donttalkaboutmymomsyo]

@@KISS_MY_CONVERSE nah m8 i think he has a point,i get the shots aren't falling argument,but it's almost impossible for curry,klay and kd to all go ice cold from 3,even then,curry and kd are still generational talents that don't need the 3 to make their mark,besides we saw plenty of seasons from them to know that they almost never miss all their shots.after all the percentages don't lie,curry and klay both shot 41% and kd shot 37%.To top it all off they're a nightmare to handle when you're defending because they stretch the floor wider than anything seen in the 90s,and knowing that no team back then ever knew how to defend that,the defense would collapse often enough that even if the 3ball wasn't falling they could get easy 2pts.Finally,they're no slouches on defense either,draymond klay and iggy are all serious threats as defenders,and there is no visible weak link defensively,even curry has stepped up his positional game enough.And as for the argument that shaq would score 40 on em each night,they're still gonna win because of shaqs inefficiency as a defender outside the paint,so shaq either has to defend the paint and give up easy 3s(sure fire win for gsw) or step outside to guard the 3 at which point a simple cut is enough for middle penetration.All in all i love these 90's teams as much as anybody,and i'm not a great big fan of the warriors either,but to suggest that with all the advancements in both technology,strategy and coaching mindset,it's ludicrous to suggest that those 90's teams would get the upper hand more often than not.

[@billyfresh23]

so how is the adding of expansion teams dilute the competition for those bulls teams, but all those tanking teams like 76ers, lakers, suns, nets, etc. not don’t dilute things for the 2017 warriors? like what’s the difference, i wanna hear it (ok you guys at least brought it up at 25:30)

[@LectricVonThunder]

Teams still tanked back then too.

[@car9melo]

They were tanking in those days to genius

[@billyfresh23]

Ocular Vape-O Beams of course, were they blatantly tanking though?

[@LectricVonThunder]

@@billyfresh23 Yes, and there's no difference either way. Tanking is tanking. The only reason it wasn't called out as much is because there was no social media/daily sports talk calling it out every second.

[@billyfresh23]

Ocular Vape-O Beams give me some examples besides the spurs tanking for duncan

[@clovismacdoogal7951]

i have listened to this show for a couple years now. at first i found bill super smart and always had good and creative takes. now...i still think those things but i find bill to be annoying...and i fast forward through rusillo....

[@Shinobi6407]

For the longest, I would've just said the 96 team. But I find the 91 Bulls team to be better. Prime MJ that was hungry for a ring. Oh man....

[@Paul-wu7xd]

What about Grant "Hill."

[@liron713]

I know this isn't a major point, but... TENNIS HAD NO STARS AT ALL!??!?! Sampras won his 2nd Australian Open and 4th Wimbledon in 1997, but okayyyy.

[@MeMe-td1ye]

Yes agassi won us 94, aus 95, oly 96, Sampras won us 95 - 96, wimb 93 - 95

[@KISS_MY_CONVERSE]

i like how somehow 96 is overrated due to lack of competition. Hello!!!!!!!!!! What about todays era. There's like 15 teams with no hall of famers. And questionable all stars. Hawks, Pacers, Hornets, Cavaliers, 76ers, Suns, Kings, T'Wolves, Trail Blazers, and etc are all bums with no hall of famers.

[@brotherlydifferences7953]

IKR

[@dereksupernaut]

'93 Bulls were a weak regular season championship team winning 57 games BUT they were defended 2 titles so regular season becomes less important & the league was loaded so 70 wins was unlikely even for a great team... the playoff team also had a big negative going 0-2 to start series v Knicks... after this though, the '93 Bulls went 8-2 v 60 win teams with opposite styles (Knicks, Suns). for the entire playoffs everyone but Pippen was hitting their threes with the team over 40%!!! post-Dream Team Pippen was no doubt top 10, with their most talented 5 players including breakout elite role player BJ Armstrong (never missed a shot nor turned the ball over and could guard small-quick guards) & Scott Williams (former big man talented enough to go to North Carolina, only held back by bad shoulder; for 25 minutes though he provided excellent energy)... the '93 Bulls are the greatest team ever. they hit their 3's & had elite athleticism for modern teams, and bigman depth for teams from the past; with 2 MVP caliber stars... fax!!!

[@kristion9774]

Kawhi has them down 25! Rule changes, and size inside.

[@jesseurena5153]

92 bulls> or 91

[@jeremiahmiller4640]

The ringer > first take > undisputed

[@1patrickryan]

You said fuck the redrafts huh it's been like two weeks since the first time 03 was uploaded

[@KidFly9321]

That's Joe House??