What was Varus thinking? - The "Fool" of Teutoburg

Was Varus really to blame for the disaster of Teutoburg Forest?
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In this documentary we take a look at the Battle of Teutoburg Forest and ask whether or not Varus was the "fool" he is made out to be by most accounts. For our analysis we begin by reviewing our Roman sources on the Battle of Teutoburg as recounted by Paterculus, Tacitus, Florus, and Dio. Once we have baselined our understanding we then see how their narratives stack up against the common accusation that Varus was squarely to blame for the disaster? Here are the major charges:
He “foolishly” caused the unrest in Germania
He “foolishly” trusted Arminius
He “foolishly” failed to undercover the ambush
He “foolishly” failed to repel the ambush
We dive into each section with arguments for and against the claims. We look at things like the career of Varus, the doctrine of the Roman Military, and technical aspects of the Roman Army marching column. Its a fascinating discussion that reveals how ancient history and military history is never as clear cut as is initially presented. (Note: many of the images we used are from the excellent Netflix Barbarians series). Stay tuned for more roman history documentary episodes.
#Rome
#History
#Teutoburg

[@InvictaHistory]

Check out our follow up episode on the aftermath of the Teutoburg Forest from both the Germanic and the Roman perspective: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZC9Y3SkftWahcU

[@Sh4dxwxz]

I got to say personally when I hear the sources from the first two sources of history. I do believe they have a strong point when it comes to how laws are foolish in certain situations. If you're amongst a group of people who don't believe in the rule of law and don't understand it's purpose. Then it makes no sense to treat those people as if they could admire laws when you don't first show them the alternative which is violence. For instance many of the laws of the ancient Romans were made to prevent instability. One of these instabilities was migrating tribes that thought it was ok to leave their home when things get bad and then ravage their neighbors. This is why they had no respect for Roman laws because there actions are the reason why Roman laws were needed.

[@oscarcontigo87]

I'm interested in the topic, but you speak too fast. Maybe it's not that, but the point is I have problems to follow. I think you should consider making your speech more friendly for non native English speakers.

[@johnknoefler]

Sending out scouts to look for signs of an ambush should be standard procedure. Why this was neglected points to complacency.

[@kdshak4904]

Great analysis. Please add one more yo the list. 5. He “foolishly” kept all the legions to himself. Yes. A more “cautious” commander should have divided his troops into 2-3 separate groups, to be sent via separate routes under three commanders. This way the maximum loss would have been at most one legion. I think he got too cocky and felt that 20km long “train” would be mire scary compared to just 6km long 🙏🙏🙏

[@faelger9473]

concerning "your opinion": i think you forget the very MOST IMPORTANT part...the army of varus was a quite large one. Able to take on pretty much any tribe or even tribes army or uprising with ease. just that is not what happened did it? arminius managed to unite a SUBSTANTIAL amount of the chiefs, war leaders and free men of the entire region to strike together under his plan. AND STILL they had been outnumbered...So just think about how large this army was. Varus did not act with reckless abandon at all...it was INCONCEIVABLE that what happened actually happened. that's also why it is such a big thing in german history. Because the german tribes usually dont tend to work together like they did here. Varus was aware of that of course like anyone else. THATS why his failure was so large. The part of germania he was in was deeply split in feudes, ancestral hate and love and and and. Varus was absolutely certain in his capabilities to take on ANY enemy that might be in this territory. Only he wasnt just taking on ANY enemy. But ...a lot of them and a lot more than anyone could have forseen far more important though A LOT more organised than they had ever been. WHich of course took the main advantage rome had against the tribes away from varus.

[@mu2960]

Let's be honest, Caesar would have forgotten to bring food then won bc the 10th legion was apparently mostly composed of terminators

[@shastasilverchairsg]

The Space Marine kind or the Arnold Schwarzenegger kind?

[@caspianhorlick4529]

@@shastasilverchairsg Probably both combined into one

[@chaptermastermoloc4171]

Best comment so far

[@Callsign_Prophet]

Caesar would have split his army into 2 and sent all his calvary ahead to where they were returning precisely when the center legion was being ambushed surprising and routing the Germans purely out of luck.

[@mu2960]

And then wrote about how he slaughtered 100K Germans while only losing 30 legionaires that he knew by name

[@marcello7781]

Telling a historical event by analyzing multiple sources of that time, you're doing it greatly.

[@jackhakken]

That's pretty standard

[@nnelg8139]

Actually, only one of the sources was "of that time", the others were written by people born decades of not centuries after this happened.

[@jackhakken]

@@nnelg8139 they were nonetheless accurate enough of what seemed to have happened as backed up by archeological data. So I would still consider them as viable sources if viewed and analyzed with some caution.

[@unknownz1238]

I mean like that’s kinda how you should do any research

[@racoon251]

That’s expected

[@1984Phalanx]

People often fault the coach of a losing team without considering the actions of the winning side. Like you said, it was a good ambush.

[@Kruppt808]

Did so and so win or did so and so choke? Sports debate topic.

[@Alex-vq9vj]

That reminds me of a brillant college humor sketch were the losing coach to the indignation of all sports reporters insists the loss is all "because of God" - and then backs it up with reverse logic, citing the winners giving God credit for their outcome. It's clever and hilarious 😂

[@connorgolden4]

Last time I was this early Augustus still had his legions.

[@darkcrisisgaming298]

Give me back my legions!!!

[@TimHornerWOP]

:(

[@catneko6855]

HAH

[@whoareyouyouareclearlylost323]

Augustus disbanded 2/3 of the empire's legions later in life, if he had used them at least that last time as a revenge it would work! But instead he disbanded and kept complaining about 'his lost legions' lol

[@whoareyouyouareclearlylost323]

@Silmarillion Tolkien so all the kibeling in the future is just people babbling about things they don't know about.

[@caesarshotdogchampion8738]

“Give me back my Part 3 to Julius Caesar lives.” - Augustus probably

[@caesarshotdogchampion8738]

@wulpurgis Invicta has all the answers you need when he decides to make his Part 3 to Caesar lives

[@caesarshotdogchampion8738]

@wulpurgis That’s the deepest part of the lore. Stay tuned and watch next week

[@constantinexi6489]

Still waiting for part 2 of Evolution of the Roman Legions 😔

[@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc]

@wulpurgis Agreed. I want part 3!

[@88fibonaccisequence]

Will Tribune Aquila allow him to do Part 3?

[@gaiusoctavius5935]

Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!

[@osman7365]

Jeez I was going to comment this

[@andredeketeleastutecomplex]

copyright infringement the both of you, that's my line

[@fpvillegas9084]

And also his regions 😁

[@monadsingleton9324]

Augustus Caesar, give us back our Republic!

[@davidstone9154]

@@monadsingleton9324 The ONE thing that everyone fails to realize, that Rome was founded as a Republic and that the mentality should have been OUR and not MINE!! I am willing to wager that the only reason Augustus even cared about the loss of 3 legions and their auxiliaries was because it left him shorthanded and unable to conquer more....more...more...!!

[@wolky8176]

I am actually living right next to the Teutoburger Wald. I still have some unidentified armour pieces I found as a kid somewhere on the field next to our house. When I was little, sometimes people would come to search for relicts and I often joined them. When I was 9 my parents gifted me my own Metalldedector (metal-search-thingy) so I could hunt items on my own. Good times.

[@roccomarcy]

What does the area look like in modern day? Is it a very open area or riddles with trees?

[@wolky8176]

@@roccomarcy it's like a veeery long strip of hill that is covered with forest. 56 million years ago it marked the end of the middle sea so in the sediment there is a good amount of fossils to find. Where I live, you can cross the hill and the forest in 10 minutes to the other side, or you follow through it and walk for days. If you ever come to Germany you can walk it, it's called the "Hermannsweg".

[@teutonalex]

@@roccomarcy still heavily forested but flanked by many fields.

[@roccomarcy]

@@wolky8176 thanks a bunch you two!

[@btarczy5067]

Hey, I live close to it as well! Visiting the museum that commemorates the battle in Kalkriese was amazing back in the day.

[@lalucre1803]

In my opinion, the fact that the legionairs were not overwhellmed initially, and fought on for days, until they finally succumed piece by piece showd that they did all they could possibly do. They finally died to a supperior foe.

[@user-ve8pl2eq8q]

The foe wasn't supperior. Arminius was smart and ´lead Varus in an ambush because the roman war machine was supperior in open battles and general fighting skill.

[@Waechter_im_All]

@@user-ve8pl2eq8q superior in the sense of spotwise outnumbering their opponents and using the terrain to their advantage as well as hit & run tactics likewise.

[@CivilWarWeekByWeek]

Augustus wished Teutoburg was an April Fools day prank

[@connorgolden4]

Say sike rn!

[@realname4898]

Augustus wish he knew about April fools day 😆

[@LordWyatt]

Letter arrives in Rome telling of Varus’ defeat on April 1st. Guard: I don’t think the Emperor is going to think this is as funny as we do...You take it to him!

[@hannibalbarca1147]

*slaughters thousands of Roman soldiers* It's just a prank bro

[@MegaTang1234]

Top ten pranks that went too far.

[@loslobos786]

Varus was clearly a Scapegoat no one could have seen Touttenburg coming, it was the perfect ambush. Varus takes the blame because someone had to and he was already dead which suited everyone involved nicely.

[@monadsingleton9324]

Indeed, and in addition, the Romans were deeply reluctant to place the full blame for the Varian disaster on Arminius alone because doing so would be an implicit admission that Barbarian Arminius was a superior commander to Roman Varus. An unthinkable anathema to Roman historians. Worse still, placing full responsibility on Arminius would be a stain on the Emperor Augustus. It was a result of his policies towards towards the Germans that Arminius was taken from his Cherusci homeland and raised in Rome among Romans, by Romans. It was because of this policy that Arminius was trained in the Roman way of making war, the Romans taught him all of their secrets for success on campaign...and the converse: how to defeat the Romans. Augustus Caesar was simply too sacred a figure to be criticized, even implicitly, by Roman historians. Hence, why Varus was made the fall guy.

[@pmb6667]

@@monadsingleton9324 Yep, and it was ROME who TRAINED him, decades of experience. This 'training' aspect of It, sort of reminds me a bit about those terrorists who flew the planes into the World Trade Center -- in that those men were trained to fly planes (and how things worked), *in the US.* Many terrorists (domestic or otherwise) had training by the U.S. You just don't know if or when they'd strike.

[@bigalsnow8199]

That may be the latest modern twist but don't fall for it. " no one could see it coming"... Really? Anyone can suppose that a lure into a German forest by a German born commander could be a trap 🤔. Especially when another Chieftain warns you of just that possibly. You decide who to believe. You either trust a proven Roman officer or You investigate the possibility of a trap, especially since you are responsible for the lives of so many soilders, all dependent on you.

[@dirremoire]

Word that a rebellion is brewing near the start of winter? At the very time when crops needed to be harvested? That is so patently suspicious and defies common sense. Even if it were to be believed, any "average" commander would wait until the spring before taking action. Sometimes "moron" is the correct answer.

[@jakeg3733]

@@pmb6667 Rome continually had issues with foreigners it had brought into the military. Now, foreign immigration is a good thing if done correctly. For a society to flourish it shouldn't turn away fresh blood and talent. At the same time you don't want to take recent enemies of uncertain loyalty, with a culture and goals probably at odds with your own, and give them their own segregated, equipped, and trained military units Full integration is the only way. There should never have been separate auxilia. These folks should have been vetted then allowed into the legions to serve side by side with Romans, which would mean _dispersed_ because that makes a religious, ethnic, or nationalist rebellion much more difficult. Roman discipline takes care of the rest because 1 or 2 would-be rebels in a 5,500 strong mixed legion are going to be discovered and neutralized pretty quickly

[@rubenheymans1988]

What often doesn't get mentioned Is that they fought a battle, made camp, continued and fought another battle. Got split up and then picked off and slaughtered

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

Maybe they got split up, some groups made camp, and so far only one has been found. That was some stubborn resistance. And the attack also kept going, probably thoroughly stressed by Arminius/ Hermann: do not give them time to get together again!!!11. Impressive, especialy considering it was not one nation but many tribes that fought eachother often.

[@Kruppt808]

And some were reluctant to attack the Romans because of the constant defeats and the price it took on the tribes strength, the tribes were suspicious of each other, if we lose to much men, the others might attack our lands etc. Etc.

[@Waechter_im_All]

It's not sure anymore that those camps really have been camps in the first place. That's what Germanicus interpreted years later, when he saw remnants of fortifications. "Ah - here the legions must have made camp". It *must* have been roman for him, because the tribes never built fortifications like that. From the Kalkriese excavations we know however: He may have seen the remnants of the walls the Cheruski hat build along some crucial spots on the legions marching route and simply misunderstood what he saw.

[@original0blace]

@@Waechter_im_All not only that, but they would have been built under Arminius directions, who would have been trained to build those types of fortifications, in Rome. So you can forgive the Romans who returned to the area of thinking they must have been built by military forces from Rome, when infact they had been built by Germanics under the direction of a military mind from Rome, Arminius.

[@Waechter_im_All]

@@original0blace good point

[@brainrot4919]

"Why are the trees speaking German?!" -Varus probably. EDIT: Wow I understand that a single Germanic language didn't exist back then, but it would have kind of killed the joke to say otherwise lmao calm down.

[@MrDalisclock]

Everyone gangsta till the trees start yelling in German

[@donquesewilliamswilliams3497]

“Ego vado ut a urinam pedum in hac arbore Varum perfugiunt” “Hacken Sie seine Eier von Hans” “quod irrumabo”

[@user-gd5tr7gw7s]

There haven't been one "german" language. At least modern derivates of german languages didn't exist.

[@Joksa999]

@@user-gd5tr7gw7s yes but they kinda understood each other and had a kinda similar culture Modern Germany is the same but the official, school teached language is highgerman/hochdeutsch but a Bavarian would have a hard time understanding a saxon

[@claudiussmith8798]

Germanic! It is not the same as german! Greetings from an ubian decendent😉.

[@thecommissarshatisonfirege4193]

To my knowledge, Varus entrusted Arminius with the scouting, being a knight and all. However, the auxiliaries under Arminius who made up Varus' cavalry, were on Arminius side. They forged incidents, brought false reports etc. Basically, Varus had no chance of knowing what was going on

[@heinervogt4484]

Well , Varus got informations enough , that a revolte is in the brewing and also he knew about a traitor next to him. But he never could comprehend , that this was a real danger , he thought , one way or an other , nobody is able to beat the roman legion .

[@orange25i]

@@heinervogt4484 But that is not what this Video says - especially about who to trust Segestes or Arminius.

[@rogermurtaugh4766]

This is one mans opinion, this video is not the absolute truth

[@fij715]

His name was Erminaz not arminius

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

​​@@rogermurtaugh4766 Yea but the above argument completely ignores the counter argument brought forth by the video. Unless there is compelling evidence to suggest that it was more reasonable to have trusted segestes, it still stands.

[@christopherg2347]

Basically Varus did what any Roman would have done, while being led into a ambush by his own scouts.

[@Nonsense010688]

yes. Especially the first "charge" reeks of "what was he suppose to do"? This was suppose to become a roman province, so of course he would try to bring roman law. This would have always clashed with the Germanic tribes and always bring resentment. Someone else may have not trusted Arminius but thats a coin flipp whenever you like the man or not.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

*flashbacks to the Punic Wars*

[@christopherg2347]

@@Nonsense010688 Not trusting your own scout that have served under you for several campaigns? That is not even a coinflip. It would have led to a stupid ambush to *not* heed his scouts words.

[@bigalsnow8199]

Naaahhh . Not any commander. Romes history is Full of very intelligent generals. Ceasar, Africanus, the general who took down Bodicia, the general who stopped Atilla...ect. Those men who Never had walked into a forest with Romen legions who are trained to fight in open space, even if they hadn't been warned. After Hannibal taught Rome the thinking man's way of war only a Fool could fall for such a trap.

[@warrenhammer7262]

I don't understand, how did roman recon units work? Wouldn't many of the scouts and their officers be non-germans? Or roman/Italian?

[@jimmyandersson9938]

I like the fact that you describe the loss as one of their " worst " defeats rather than " biggest " defeats which many mainstream history channels use, implying a loss of 3 legions even would be near any of the previous big losses, some up to 80k men. Great video!

[@ben5056]

Yeah teutoburg has nothing on the battles of the second Punic war

[@CyNiiCaL_nR7Gaming]

It's only one of the biggest losses in regards to the influence it had on the empire's psyche(?) not the loss of legions.

[@jimmyandersson9938]

@@CyNiiCaL_nR7Gaming I doubt there was any special reaction to this loss than any other of the many losses they suffered, especially since they are so much stronger during this time than only 100 years back. Rome replace the lost army, Germanicus return and punish them, just like they did with Parthia after Carrhae and many other.

[@ittositto6494]

@@jimmyandersson9938 I think it was traumatic to the ideologic nature of Rome’s greatness at the time, blunting the spear of conquest before the place could be tamed, permanently tainting the idea with the populous of Rome. Rome needed to tame with the sword but I needed the people’s support to wield it.

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

Defeat is always a source of shame and this one was pretty bad in terms of how throughly the legions were destroyed. Ultimately, however, this defeat didn't have any lasting effect. Want to talk about tragic defeats? Try the 5th century

[@pranz2984]

Little did Varus that a KZbin would clear his name of the guilt he had faced in that forest and shed a new light on his name and actions to hundreds of thousands of people. Amazing and very informative video as always the amount of details and work you all put on is tremendously appreciated and loved by all of us. We all learn something new!

[@eduardoADSL]

Varus was just going to put down another revolt as usual and Arminius was preparing for the fight of his life.

[@normalbird1139]

@Phrnch Mdl What? Its either you are a troll or you arent capable of processing the information displayed in this video.

[@drunkenlancer5895]

Good summary

[@crozraven]

How about Arminius being an actual excellent commander & cunning tactician, on top of being clever opportunist?? He knew everything about roman army with its "by the book" strategy & conducts, so it's no surprise he can outsmart typical roman general & army. It's rather debatable if other Roman leaders can beat him in that very battle in the first place.

[@Tross-fe1bq]

I agree with you mostly but Germanicus showed that he had some weaknesses in his commanding.

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

Could Arminius have won any other battle, that is also a good question...

[@Olav_Hansen]

@@sjonnieplayfull5859 if I remember correctly he did have a successful military career up to his defecting, so I would say that he was a good commander by any standard, but managed to make the ultimate best of the situation. But the combination of not showing your cards to early, knowing the time to strike and the ambush itself puts him not up for debate for a good general, but a great.

[@dottorekaoz8679]

@David Lara Well, he had to work with germanic tribesmen instead of trained roman soldiers. His tactical knowledge and his troops did not match.

[@jakeg3733]

The truly amazing thing was that he managed to form a confederation of tribes. These weren't modern Germans, they came from many tribes that hated each other and cracks started to show later on when Germanicus came in to out-German the Germans

[@Alias_Anybody]

Arminius really played the long game here. I mean, realistically, there was almost no reason for Varus to be suspicious at all. This IMHO explains almost everything else up until the point when the actual attacks started, and at that point it was too late for Varus himself to save anything.

[@theodoresmith5272]

Thats what I think too. Arminius must have really got to be very trusted. On the other side a leader of such a force really should have used more caution. It wasnt anything new for an army on the march to be easy to attack and this area was prime. I think his lack of questioning of anything possible and his lack of being able to form any defense.

[@RedXlV]

@@theodoresmith5272 Arminius was a Roman citizen, held equestrian rank (basically equivalent to a knight in medieval times, and an officer in the Roman cavalry), and had fought with the Legions for 8 years. Even given his Germanic background, the idea that he would betray Rome after being so elevated was pretty much unthinkable until it actually happened.

[@theodoresmith5272]

@@RedXlV he was also sent to rome as insurance his father would be "nice" about the same as a guy named Dracula. Not a new practice. Hannibal held many of the Iberian nobility as insurance of there loyalty.

[@Kenshiroit]

@@RedXlV regardless on how trustworthy Arminius was, the commander had to take all the general precautions, especially when moving in enemy territory. I also consider insane to allow your legions to stretch so long, 20 km? that means, when you reach destination, you need a very long time to regroup and organize. I dont know that guy Varus, but on this made me question his military expertise.

[@Kruppt808]

That's my take away, more credit to him than blame for Varus. Sure he made alot of bad moves but to pull off what Arminus did is crazy to fathom, getting the various tribes to work together, to get them to trust you, completely fool the Romans multiple times and keep all this going on without it all blowing up in your face.......

[@mikecabral1579]

I have a guilty pleasure. I started reading historical fiction. I really enjoy the genre I have read a lot of source material. However, I’m 72 and basically bedridden and just want to keep my mind working. It’s nice to know about the historical timeline but just fun to stick in a story line with characters that you like. I have read all or at least most of Adrian Goldsworthy straight history I however, read a series of 3 novels by Goldsworthy are just out of this world terrific. I have failing eye sight as well and listen to most things on Audible. I have listened to this trilogy several times because best of both worlds the reader is also wonderful Peter Noble is most enjoyable. Check out Vindolanda, Brigantia, and Circling Sea. I love this work. And based upon how little real material we have a historians guess in the novel could be as correct as The Historical Augustus. Oh I disagree Varus had far to much trust in his Auxiliaries. Battle order of March was wrong. Should have never taken such a chance to go after such a small uprising he just wanted to pad his resume.

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

Might I suggest Simon Scarrow 'Under the Eagle' ? I got the second part in the series and somehow I keep picking it up to read parts again.

[@cassuttustshirt4949]

@@sjonnieplayfull5859 Is that the one with the young Optio who proves his mettle?

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

@@cassuttustshirt4949 could very well be. His centurion is named Macro, Vespasian takes a part, as well as Claudius and Narcissus. The name of the Optio just doesn't pop up right now.

[@cassuttustshirt4949]

@@sjonnieplayfull5859 From what I remember he (the Optio) was the main character. Maybe we are thinking of diff. books or remembering them wrong 'cause we haven't read them in awhile =D Marco the Centurion does ring a bell for me, though.

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

@@cassuttustshirt4949 Cato, thats the Optio. Got the book right here. Its the second part in the series, they are invading Brittain. He proved his worth in the first book already, something with saving a senator or sumfin. Also a bad guy who tried to steal the emperor's coffers.

[@RTDice11]

5:30 so he was criticized for treating people like... people. Damn, that's rough.

[@davidcervantes9336]

Yeap. The Romans were like super racist towards the Germans and other “barbaric” peoples.

[@NoVisionGuy]

@@davidcervantes9336 being weak willed to fight against your enemies would stab you in time. Smart dictators knew what they were doing then, it sacrifices humanity. But sometimes we need to understand why they did it their way of handling people.

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

@@NoVisionGuy as long as the history community could stop treating the Romans as fucking saints for once than we can gladly move on from this.

[@NoVisionGuy]

@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 I guess why the Roman Empire is popular because they oppressed everyone equally like no lives mattered. And also their architecture, civics, and linguistic influence on top of that.

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

@@NoVisionGuy I mean, by all accounts, the Romans SHOULD be praised for the advancements they were able to bring about in society, and part of their influence persists to this very day. The problem isn't that, but rather, its the history community conveniently ignoring how God awful they were in other ways as well, most prevalently their elitism and oppressiveness. They were NOT the only nation like this, but they are the only nation ever justified and defended by Rome-a-boos (Think weeaboos but for Rome instead of Japan). Theres other nations like the British Empire actually, who receive similar treatment, but they arent relevant ATM, sooo...

[@godwinjoy9730]

So basically, he was too trusting of his local auxiliaries to do the scouting. Still probably the worst thing he did.

[@ViktorBengtsson]

Agreed. It is hard to detect an ambush laid by your own scouts. I would probably include the poor scouting as part of "trusting Arminius". And the picture you get if the Roman commander didn't really do any unreasonable mistakes is that the Germanic victory was up to the great skill of Arminius in using his connections and his experience with the legions.

[@TEverettReynolds]

> he was too trusting of his local auxiliaries to do the scouting. Probably one of the better reasons that auxiliaries were, many times, moved to opposite parts of the empire... to prevent something like this from happening.

[@TallDude404]

Then again locals make the best scouts as they are familiar with the territory. As long as they don't betray you.

[@ramichahin2]

@@TEverettReynolds getting ppl to invade their own ppl is crazy of the romans. It's true clans often war against each other but they also have mutual respect in a way they don't have for the romans. they where playing a dangerous game of pressuring a ppl to kill their own ppl with military force and it backfired in a huge way on them.

[@ramichahin2]

@@capablemachine you take the risk of your auxiliaries turning on you or even worst, leading you into a trap.

[@hiddenhist]

I think it might be fair to say that people's expectations of the "Roman commander" are overly based on the detailed knowledge that we have about the cream of the crop. This isn't necessarily a problem in every situation, but it might lead us to condemn the average as "terrible" simply because we are accustomed to the best.

[@harrymills2770]

Usually the commander's scouts work for the commander and not the enemy. Without that - and without knowing about it - Varus was pretty helpless, as soon as he committed his forces to that march. Not knowing your scouts have thrown in with the enemy is a huge failure, though. Arminius is one of the greatest moles. ever, and that might be the main lesson to be taken from this story. Intel and counter-intel can trump everything.

[@Kruppt808]

Son of a German noble, educated and trained in Rome, trusted and then in charge of scouting said German lands with mostly German scouts..... there is a reason Rome used different troops with different commanders and moved them to other regions. Bad moves all around. A German noble who Rome trusted even told them Arminus was betraying them.

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@Kruppt808 I would say using locals to scout their own region is a good move, they know the terrain better than if you used numidians scouts XD Caesar used mainly gallic and german cavalry in his conquest of Gaul, it did well ^^

[@Kruppt808]

@@krankarvolund7771 but a local commander taken as a hostage as a boy from a tribe that fought against Rome...... local scouts yes but not under regional commanders.

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@Kruppt808 Yeah, taken as a hostage as a boy, so he was rise in the roman way ^^ And Caesar did that too, Vercingétorix was a roman hostage and even a contubernalis of Julius Caesar, if I recall correctly (they slept in the same tent) ^^

[@monadsingleton9324]

The battlefield of the Teutoburg ambush actually looked very different two thousand years ago from its contemporary appearance. In the picture at 12:11 you'll notice an enclosure in the middle of the image. The archaeologists didn't just dig-up the battlefield, they restored its appearance to the time of the battle itself. The southern side of the battlefield was dominated by the the heavily-forested Kalkriese Hill, while the northern side was a big swampy marsh. The battle itself occurred in a narrow track between the hill and the marsh, which the Germanic tribesmen had carefully prepared with fortifications. To add to the topography, the whole area was subject to heavy rainfall during the course of the battle. It was impossible for the Romans to properly maneuver, encumbered as they were by their heavy equipment. The contemporary appearance of the battlefield was created slowly over the intervening centuries as farmers drained the bogs and cleared the forests. To summarize, Ancient Germania really was a land of forest and bog; where one ended, the other began, and agricultural activity was confined to the scattered, isolated villages that the Germanic tribesmen inhabited.

[@jakeg3733]

I can't imagine fighting there. Not in the Roman style anyway. Even with today's high-speed, small team maneuver warfare it would be a superbitch. Trying to form coherent battle lines with several thousand men, soaking wet, with low visibility and commands being drowned out by the sound of heavy rain? That sounds hellish to me

[@monadsingleton9324]

@@jakeg3733 Arminius knew full well from experience that a Roman legion was truly only vulnerable and helpless when it was in marching order, and not battle array.

[@jakeg3733]

@@monadsingleton9324 Well, more vulnerable. I believe it was Germanicus that had to conduct a fighting withdrawal from the same area later, and managed to do it without excessive losses. Maybe they had improved their marching procedures? But I'm betting it was a combination of shit weather and arrogance that caused those 3 legions to be wiped out. And of course excellent leadership from Arminius

[@user-gq2ln3dg3z]

Not true. Germania has had towns and even cities. Germania also had a big population and a fairly important economy/ecomomic potential. That's also why the Romans had been so interested in invading and subjugating Germania and invested so much in that. There was alot of potential for Rome. Proven by the Romans defeat. It's just that this particular area where the Romans moved and suffered this defeat was full of forests, swamps and hills.

[@user-gq2ln3dg3z]

@@jakeg3733 Very stupid of the Romans then to go into that region with their dull armor etc. ... What were they thinking? BTW: During Germanic wars of Germanicus Caecina got very lucky in of his retreats. In one of his retreats he has lost 15k to 20k men.

[@InvictaHistory]

This video was made as a follow up to our recent episode on Roman scouting. Check it out if you haven't already: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4KshWOshZqjeMk

[@airjamy]

Sounds like that Netflix series was more accurate than i thought, was that of any inspiration?

[@Armorius2199]

Invicta, when are you going to release the What if Caesar Lived Part 3?????

[@QuizmasterLaw]

He was thinking "man, 2000 years from now I am gonna star in a video in German by RAMMSTEIN! That will prove I won after all!"

[@QuizmasterLaw]

Varus was also hated and incompetent in Palestina. Germany wasn't promotion... just the opposite ...

[@ParallelPain]

I would say Varus could not be blamed for detecting the ambush either. Wider scouting was often the responsibility of auxiliary cavalry and local guides. It was highly probable they were in on Arminius' plans, or Arminius, being leader of the auxiliary, could prevent word from moving up and reaching Varus. If Varus is not guilty of foolishly trusting Arminius, then he can't be guilty of not detecting the ambush. It's important to remember that Caesar also fell into an ambush at Sabis. If "a general such as Caesar" fell into an ambush, then Varus falling into one should not reflect badly on his ability.

[@nathanapplegate5374]

Varus is the most cursed name for a Roman commander. A commander named varus also failed miserably at Canae.

[@silentecho92able]

don't you mean Varro?

[@leo2312]

@@silentecho92able Anything with a 'V' is just cursed.

[@hehrhrthgthtgggrg4841]

@@leo2312 vore

[@patmat.]

I absolutely love how you introduce the subject, with the sources. It's so lucid and honest 👏👏... and the rest too, super clear.

[@scottgrey3337]

Sounds like a case of people asking “why did the Romans lose?” rather than “why did the Germanic tribes win?” Really love the hubris of empires that even in complete disasters, they still want the credit.

[@dunruden9720]

It's like Viet Nam really. The Americans won. It's only the scoreboard that says they lost!

[@marine76a]

Military units must trust their chain of command inherently. Almost any general in this case Arminus and his father could layout a comprehensive ambush because they were within the chain of command providing Varus with the information necessary to allow the ambush to happen. This was not Quintillus Varus first command, he was successful on other campaigns notably in Judea. The Roman troops were highly trained, equipped and could likely do well in this constrained terrain as they were heavy infantry that could utilize larger trees as chokepoints making it harder for their potential Germanic enemies to flank them if they were fighting asymmetrically if this were not a planned ambush. It is likely that cavalry would find this terrain to be difficult to negotiate. However, their Germanic opposition was likely poorly equipped, trained for their terrain environment, but probably would have a difficult time in a prolonged engagement. This victory was won by the Germans due to planning, deception and communication. It is still a noteworthy victory, but it is dubious to think that Varus could have won given that he was so well scripted into this battle or that Varus had any agency to turn back the tides after his men were caught in this snare.

[@markthervguy]

What Arminius achieved was to break the Roman column into segments on a narrow path that winded around a bend. So that each segment couldn't move forward nor reverse and couldn't move to coordinate an engagement in force. The Germans were able to concentrate their forces upon one segment at a time and defeated the Romans in detail. The end of the column may not even known why the column had stopped until the battle moved down the line towards them. By then it was too late to regroup and form a proper battle line.

[@reaper_exd7498]

Succinct observation, thank you.

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

Agreed on most parts, but what I read was how the Auxilia turned against the Romans. Those were not poor-equiped troops.

[@markthervguy]

@@sjonnieplayfull5859 I don't recall anyone saying they were, or that Arminius didn't lead the auxilia that turned. It's not disputed that is this wasn't part of the ambush. I only spoke to the tactics of the ambush, and why is was so successful. Thanks for contributing.

[@Pedowood]

apparently this battle took place over many days. This was not a quick fight but it seems that the Germans focused on isolating and pressuring the Romans until they routed. Also most of the German forces might be poorly equipped, but I'm sure Arminus's own auxiliary forces were well prepared to fight the Romans.

[@lucasvanderhoeven3760]

Amazing cover of a key historical event! The use of sources and the detailing isn't seen very often on KZbin. So good job, and keep going!

[@laketaylora]

As I recall, trusting the wrong (i.e., working for the enemy) local guides was what got Crassus into trouble in Parthia, with similar results: a Roman expeditionary force destroyed in unfamiliar territory when lured into a pre-planned trap. Operations in unfamiliar if not unfriendly territory were always fraught with peril. Caesar won a great victory against the Nervii during his Gallic campaigns, but only by recovering from an ambush that was a near-run thing at first. I guess the takeaway lesson is, "When on campaign in enemy territory or in rebellious territory, trust no one among the locals."

[@andrewgrasham4604]

Always a pleasure to see a new video from you in my feed! Thank you very much!

[@LordOceanus]

Ive always found that blaming Varus detracts from the achievements of the rebels. Rome never looked on the Germanic tribes favorably so it is no surprise that they decided to blame one of their own for being at fault when they were defeated by a legitimately clever and well executed military strategy

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

Varus as scapegoat. Typical Roman reaction to a defeat. Finger the scapegoat, then exact revenge.

[@AdamNisenziSpisak]

Military strategy of " being betrayed by your only eyes and ears > scouts and possibly many other close soldiers and officers" truly a great "military" strategy

[@HansLemurson]

I think the biggest point here is that "It was a really good ambush". It's not like the roman army oopsie-daisied into being destroyed, it was a deliberate ambush. Turn this around to look at it from the German perspective: the question then is "How much bad luck would it take for the well planned German ambush to have failed?" Good plans are generally going to succeed.

[@ben76326]

Especially when you consider how good of a mol Arminius was. Since he wasn't just a Roman citizen, he was an equites who earned his rank by helping put down a revolt in Illyricum. Sure Varus could have chosen to not trust Arminius's scouts, and instead use Romans to scout. But he had no reason to not trust Arminius, so why would he. To me it seems like a situation where hind sight is 20/20. And armchair generals like to think that they would do better since they have way more information.

[@Tholomaios]

Briliant presentation and analysis of the available sources! Also great to mention the relation of historical research of sources and archeology. Great job!

[@calinculianu]

Great video man. Really enjoyable to watch. Great job. Very thought provoking. I love content like this.

[@nekomakhea9440]

Immediate attack on a revolt sounds like the doctrine modern law enforcement has for active shooters: bum-rush the criminals with guns blazing as quickly as possible, not waiting to organize, scout, or get reinforcements, so as to stop the criminals getting a chance to barricade themselves in with hostages or do further damage. The Germans probably realized that this was the standard Roman response tactic, relying on the Romans being in too great a rush to scout properly and a highly trusted spy dropping a false tip, to create conditions to ambush the response force.

[@tylerdurden3722]

Arminius and the Germanic auxiliary cavalry he led were tasked with this scouting.😅

[@wilsmuts]

love the video. would love to see more similar videos discussing the lead up/logistics behind historic battles. Cheers!

[@snowman01]

Bravo, what an awesome upload. I had no idea that the moving line stretched for approx. 20 KMs! Fascinating

[@jelmervandegraaff]

I love your analysis. I personally think that a commander that sends his troops into a position that's stretched out and 20 km long should have accounted for the possibility of an ambush, regardless of the territory he's in. Btw, your videos helped me pass my classical antiquity class a while back!

[@sizzla123]

Awesome episode! “As a rule, what is out of sight disturbs men’s minds more seriously than what they see.” - Julius Caesar

[@Olav_Hansen]

Given this quote, chances are that if Julius were the commander he would be more on his guard. I do wonder however if he would suspect betrayal from the cav.

[@sizzla123]

@@Olav_Hansen Good point. I guess there may have been various signals Varus missed, incl the traitor Cav. I think Caesar would have had better scouts that would have spotted the ambush or prepared a better route, then the one from the barbarian Cav. Even if Caesar was fooled, I doubt his veteran scouts would allow an ambush like Teutoberg to happen.

[@John-so5xw]

I've watched your videos for years, Thank you for being so consistent!

[@jsudlow12]

I like how you keep in mind that hindsight is 20/20, we can’t know the emotions of the troops, the personal goals Varus harbored or maybe standards he was expected to live up to, this was really well done

[@SonnyThomasShow1]

Excellent presentation. I would agree w your assessment. Especially finding out how accomplished Varus obvious was before the disaster.

[@randallcooper4399]

Thank you for providing historiography to a large audience.

[@amendus]

The fact you cite multiple sources, and also take bias is awesome. I subscribed :)

[@Bart9349]

A wonderful careful assessment of the literary sources. Thank you.

[@Mrkabrat]

"I sure can trust that lad Arminius" Varro's last thoughts before the ambush

[@herpyderpy2869]

Just finished watching Netflix's Barbarians, this should be very interesting 😊😊

[@robertstuckey6407]

What did you think of the ending?

[@robertstuckey6407]

@wulpurgis the whole "ancient gasoline" plot point was silly. I get that fire is dramatic but I felt like the show did so much work just for the germans to use a random deus ex machina.

[@romano4736]

@Jean Oh yes but the latin was very good and accurate

[@geraltgrey-mane695]

I recommed to watch Metatron video he did on that show, if you wanna know more :)

[@robertstuckey6407]

@wulpurgis fair enough. I never finished GoT because they stopped focusing on the intrigue and focused on the magic and shit

[@Ronin4614]

I very much enjoyed hearing the views that were compiled for this video, wonderful job. Just a humble retired military officer here, who was stationed southwest of the killing ground from ‘79-‘82. Hearing of what was found a few feet underground is simply staggering. Perhaps the key failure Varus fell into was to push onto ground that robbed his legions of it’s strength, control of the battlefield. In hindsight, skirting the forest and bog would have saved his legions. If he needed to occupy that geographical space, then cut the forest down. Romans were masters at changing the ground around them to retain command of a battle, and that is where Varus failed. What would be interesting to learn is what his senior officers and NCOs, professional military men, were advising him. They had to have be beyond uneasy to see the Legions strung out in such a long thin line of march on that ground. Thank you for this video.

[@Aurora2097]

The sheer analysis of detail... amazing!

[@dewittbourchier7169]

I think we only retrospectively call Varus a fool. He was no fool. He quickly organised his men and led them in a three day long battle in unimagineable conditions and managed to keep them together for three straight days. This is a great feat of generalship in any circumstance. His one major mistake - and query as to whether it was a mistake - was to trust Arminius. But this was not exactly stupid. From Varus' perspective Arminius was a comrade, educated in Rome, raised in Rome. He was, in Roman eyes, a Roman.

[@antoniotorcoli9145]

Excellent video or, I would even say extraordinary. But I disagree on the first and fourth charge. You omitted to quote from the sources that Varus was extremely greedy . As a governor of Syria, he found, being poor ,a rich province and left, being rich ,a poor province.In Germany he imposed an unfair fiscal burden and this very course of action was probably instrumental in causing the revolt. So, in my opinion, he was guilty . Concerning the fourth charge: the very fact that a lot of civilians , including women and children, were accompanying the army was a major mistake. Furthermore, after the first attacks, instead of trying to move forward in a long and vulnerable column and building three successive camps, he could have tried to consolidate the defence of the first camp . He had enough food and supplies to resist several weeks and, given that the German tribes were generally weary of long sieges, a successful defence would have possibly caused the disbandment of the attackers. In any case Aulus Caecina was ambushed with 4 legions in a even more difficult environment and was able to defeat the Germans. I find Varus guilty even for the last charge.

[@jozzieokes3422]

Very informative and interesting. Appreciate it

[@melvinmayfield470]

Well-Done, as is expected of you Sir!

[@ghostinquisitor7743]

I think the question would be "Do you trust the scout to accurately telegraph the interruption? Or do you trust 1000 guys to depict their point of view?" Hard to say, word of mouth is powerful but unsophisticated.

[@DamonNomad82]

To put Augustus' sentiments into verse: "Roses are red, The Empire spans many regions, Quintilius Varus Give me back my legions!"

[@rogersledz6793]

Thank you so much for uploading this video. It is helping me get through the pandemic!

[@jakedunnegan]

Great assessment! I particularly like the idea of digging into an "accepted idea" and poking holes in it - even 2000 years later! Fascinating!

[@ghostrider88jinetedelfanta31]

Hindsight is 20/20. There is an old military saying a good decision now, is better than a perfect decision too late. It sounds like Varus acted as a Roman commander would, with the information he had on hand. I hesitate to blame him for not finding the ambush without knowing if his calvary & scouts were part of the rebellion. 🗡🥾🐎🏹⚔

[@asiberiantiger188]

"Quintilius Varus, give me back my Magellantv subscription!"

[@MrMaiaBang]

This is by far the best documentary I have ever seen on the subject. Impressive!

[@starwarsvsstartrekswvsst1354]

You honestly do such above and beyond work with your videos! Appreciate this one greatly. You must do a TON of reading and research!

[@nothingtoseeheremovealong598]

An excellent video idea.

[@matheusmterra]

Caesar had a couple ambushes like that and didn't lose his entire army. But then again, we're talking about Caesar here, one of the greatest strategic minds and one of the best commanders who ever lived. We can't fault Varus for not being as capable as * CAIVS * IVLIVS * CAESAR *

[@Voltstorm0207]

Tbh he would probably have forgotten his legions food and even then his troops would have won.

[@thechosenone1533]

But his own officers and scouts didn't betray him. Also Germania was a lot more thickly forested than Gaul or any other regions where he would have been ambushed.

[@matheusmterra]

@@thechosenone1533 true that, but I think there is skill in recognizing talent and loyalty, and besides, during the start of the campaign in Gaul and in Britain, Caesar didn't have really good scouts, he missed the opportunity of a joint attack with Labienus because his scouts couldn't find him in position, he had Gallic allied cavalry who kept switching sides, a dangerous supply line issue for being deep in enemy territory, and despite all that he came out on top. Credit to his officers and his troops, Caesar was fortunate to be able to rely on them, but I stand by my argument that my boy Caesar wouldn't have fallen for this shit.

[@thechosenone1533]

@@matheusmterra You just added on to what I said. Arminius wasn't some local whom they couldn't rely on. He was a Roman citizen of the equestrian rank. So Varus trusted him as much as a Roman citizen.

[@matheusmterra]

@@thechosenone1533 indeed, however in the reports it is explicitly stated that all the other officers advised Varus against such a move, he trusted Arminius, an apparently romanized german, over all their other tribunes and legates. That's plain dumb if you ask me. Edit: But of course, the fact the officers advised against the plan and Varus chose to follow Arminius' advice might be part of the slandering campaign against Varus

[@denniscannon769]

Very well done! Excellent use of language, including correct usage of the somewhat 'tricky' past tense hypothetical.

[@antoniohinojos3808]

Great content, keep up the good work.

[@airworkzairbrush]

I disagree that he wasn't to blame. As can be seen from the sources, he had several options across the 5 or so days he was leading his men around unknown territory and took none as he kept placing his men in danger. Strictly tactically speaking, the betrayal of Arminius had nothing to do with the poor choices Varus made.

[@jesseberg3271]

I think that you are underestimating how unmanly the Romans started out viewing reconnaissance as, both in this video and your one on scouts. They spent the entire second Punic war walking into one ambush after another, because "real men" strode boldly into battle, without scouting ahead. Yes, they learned over time, and yes certain exceptional commanders were ahead of their time. Part of Caesar's brilliance was his ability to take precautions without his army thinking he was "acting like an old woman." I think that may have been part of why he cultivated such a reputation for personal bravery. It made it easier for him to scout, or to build a fallback position, or do other things that a general like Varus would have had people questioning his manliness over. Later generals would be able to hold Varus up as an example, but as you said, that didn't always work, and they kept on only scouting some of the time.

[@sartainja]

Superb presentation. Excellent point made.

[@kenchesnut4425]

Such a good channel ....the amount of work yall put in really shows..MUCH LUV FROM N.AUGUSTA S.C

[@TheYasast]

The presumed place where the battle happened I call my home. Never thought I could say that about an Invicta video :D Good Stuff as always!

[@Apple_Teck]

"Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi, A New Hope.

[@cbbees1468]

Was Germania a hive of villainy during antiquity or would that be the honeybees?

[@Apple_Teck]

@@cbbees1468 Apparently, it was a little bit of both. So uncivilized.

[@patrickselden5747]

Thanks, y'all, for this fascinating and thought-provoking video. ☝️😎

[@melvinmayfield470]

Brilliant as always!!

[@sirunklydunk8861]

I always hate it when historians blame disastrous defeats on "Incompetent Military Leader" because it takes credit away from the guys who pulled off the strategy that pulls off the victory. Not to say bad leadership is NEVER a reason why armies lose but I feel lit it's trying to justify the Roman Defeat rather than give credit to the Barbarian victory

[@ladygrey7425]

And we have to consider to that Varus had no reason not to trust Arminius. The man had been raised in Rome for most of his life and was a dear friend to Varus, if not something akin to a son or a nephew. And what was he supposed to do when he heard that his Germanic tribal allies up north were under attack? Just sit on his hands and do nothing? It was a betrayal that blindsided literally every Roman present. (Not to mention that Varus' scouts, who could have informed him about the ambush, were either slaughtered to a man or turned their cloaks)

[@kubajcz]

@@ladygrey7425 exactly. Its almost like if someone from your family betrayed you.

[@nebsam7137]

Well it is Romans that are writing about it so not really surprising

[@LucidWanderer]

Interesting information that is not commonly known it is believed that the legendary Norse hero Sigurd the Dragon-Slayer is actually Arminius, the serpent like Fafnir being based on the marching formations of the Roman Legion in the dense Germanic forests.

[@chrisdjernaes9658]

Brilliant. If only history was taught in this simple, clear and objective way.

[@borwse]

Upload in 30 sec. Me: theres no better way to start the day. Perfection

[@Adventjrd]

Would it be possible to elaborate on what could've been an appropriate marching stance? I mean, how would a general organize a string of some 20km of people to be able to withstand ambushes and still get to the destination in a decent time-frame?

[@tylerdurden3722]

Normally, Romans were very suspicious of any kind of tree cover that could hide an ambush. Which is what makes Varus' decisions so odd. Normally they'd scout more thoroughly. Make camp more often. Find a different route. Or flat out turn back. Etc. At the battle of Trebia, Hannibal intentionally chose a spot that didn't have tree cover too nearby because he wanted the Romans to attack impetiously without becoming suspicious and then cautious. Hannibal was aware of how suspicious the Romans were of forests. For Varus to be that relaxed in that forest was not typical for a Roman commander. It just further shows how much he must of trusted Arminius. Ceasar encountered many such forest situations with the threat of an ambush. So if one wants examples of how to deal with this kind of terrain, simply check out Ceasar's lesser known engagements.

[@nox5555]

@@tylerdurden3722 the forest wasnt so dense and the Route looked pretty good. The problem with the forest are the holes and the hills. You make one step away from the path and you fall down into a hole full of last years leafes. Every natural opening in the forest is a bog and the pathways are at the side of hills very good to ambush Outsider. It was also a hotbed for more fanatic People, the next holyplace is about a days travel from those woods.

[@olinayoung6287]

Fantastic, thank you! I love these deconstructions 🌸😁!!!

[@knuckleballerd3671]

You do excellent history! Most enjoyable.

[@Nonsense010688]

To quote a (german) documentary on the subject: "varus made the experience to trust his allies. He was loyal to his friends and allies which is general speaking a good characteristic, but was a mistake this time because the friend was disloyal"

[@lesact]

I'm just learning about these matters, but here's how it seems to naive old me. 1. If you are going to use local scouts ("because they know the area"), then at least have one trusted legionnaire with them (not Arminius, he was the commander). Then the Roman scout can say things like "why don't we check out that hillock beside the stream" and start to detect if the responses and scouting don't quite add up. 2. I thought the Romans were like ants when it comes to construction. So they construct fortifications just for a single overnight stop. Well, if you're faced with being strung out over 22km, I think it merits constructing fortified staging posts along the way; or chopping down trees to widen the route; or laying rough track to improve a boggy path in case it rains. Of course that delays the transit and would make it take 2 or 3 times longer, but its better than getting annhilated. I thought construction was the Roman way? 3. The question of trusting Armenius is academic. Every commander should 'distrust' the judgement of all of his subordinates. It's a matter of healthy doubt. Each matter should be examined on it's own merits. When a subordinate/advisor suggests that its OK to get strung out 22km in a narrow route, the commander needs to doubt the advisor's judgement, whether he trusts his intentions or not. Of course, Varus wanted to get there quickly. Speed, in military affairs is great, but hurry, is not.

[@abdalla2s]

brilliant analysis . as always

[@icecreamvendor433]

Excellent video, very entertaining and informative thank you!

[@AncestorEmpireGaming]

Props to you if you read the title in AVGN's Voice

[@wiictvchannel1112]

Exactly haha

[@belstar1128]

He is going to take you back to the past to fight the $1tty battles that sùçk @$$.

[@LadyHokage9]

Varus: *loses 3 legions* Augustus: "Is this an out of season April Fools Joke"

[@docbrosk]

Excellent. I've studied the battle extensively and walked what is generally (!) understood to be the battlefield. I find your analysis to be on the mark. Incidentally, Custer here is criticized on much the same grounds as Varus there & then - in particular, dividing his regiment into three squadrons, opening them up to be defeated in detail. It wasn't until years later - at the US Army's Military History Institute - that I learned that that was standard practice for Army cavalry formations trying to locate & bring to battle hostiles...e.g. at the same time that the 7th Cavalry was getting its ass kicked, the 2nd Cavalry far away was using the sam 3-squadron deployment to sweep its area of responsibility, and did o without disaster. Love your work. Ave!

[@totodilesquad3890]

Hey Invicta! Once again, a very high-standard video. I especially like how you evaluated the sources we have and what their strengths, but also shortcomings are. Putting things into perspective like that really helps with understanding the biases of the sources and how that influenced our perception of historical events. In general, I agree with you on the fact that Varus' biggest fault was failing to detect the ambush. Note that it's not really that Varus failed to scout ahead, it's more that his scouts were composed of mostly rebels. Thinking back on the episode on Roman scouting, I did wonder why the Romans so desperately relied on (local) auxiliaries to do their scouting, given that it's one of the most important tasks for any army. Perhaps having scouting parties be comprised of both locals and "true" Romans would have been the better choice, to avoid catastrophic ambushes like these? As you mentioned, in hindsight it is easy to judge and imagine oneself as making the better choices. You also mentioned that Varus didn't have any similar, earlier events to learn from. However, given that, I wonder whether any later commander did use Varus' defeat as a case study so as to learn from his mistakes and not repeat them. Obviously, the Romans later on still walked right into ambushes like this one or severely misjudged a situation, leading to a devastating defeat, so maybe they didn't really learn from Teutoburg... When you talked about how the army was moving extremely slowly due to roadblocks, bad weather etc., wouldn't that have prevented any quick, decisive action to quell the uprising anyway? Maybe that was another poor scouting job. I reach the same final verdict as you do; in my opinion, Varus isn't entirely to blame for Teutoburg. Sure, he could have done things differently, better perhaps, but as said before, it's easy to say that in hindsight. That really gets the big "What if" question going though, I think: What if Varus had discovered the ambush? Would he have simply altered his marching column and engaged in battle regardless? Would he have pulled back to assess the situation and then maybe have chosen a different, safer path? Would he have simply continued on to his winter quarters and decided to deal with the rebellion next spring? There's a lot here for alternate historians to work with, I'm sure. Anyway, I just quickly wanted to thank you for your videos! They really get me thinking and quite invested in a topic, which is a lot of fun :)

[@underscore_mallard2721]

Literally an hour ago I finished watching the show about that exact event

[@hansgruber3397]

That show was so thrashy...

[@underscore_mallard2721]

@@hansgruber3397 eh, it wasnt the best, but I enjoyed it

[@randomlyentertaining8287]

He kept moving through a forest his force was far too big for, during terrible weather, and after several enemy ambushes. Yes he was just as much of a fool as he's made out to be. Also, it's unfortunate that Paterculus is obviously biased since he was actually alive during the massacre whereas someone like Florus wasn't even born until many decades after it.

[@theknave4415]

Absolutely. Never put your people into an untenable tactical situation.

[@davidcervantes9336]

He didn’t do that because he was a fool, he did that because he trusted his scouts and best general who betrayed him.

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

He had several ambushes before in Germany?

[@randomlyentertaining8287]

@@sjonnieplayfull5859 He had been ambushed several times in Teutoburg before his force was finally caught and slaughtered. He had several chances to turn around and find a better way north.

[@randomlyentertaining8287]

@@davidcervantes9336 From what I've seen, he did very little scouting if any and considering how easily he seemed to have been caught off guard multiple times during the slog through the forest, I believe it.

[@TheSamuraijim87]

This video was as excellent and even handed as your re-examination of the Battle of Carrhae. It was great. In particular, the diagram displaying the sheer length of the Roman column is really illuminating. All too often, people judge these matters like they are playing Total War. But the fact is, even a commander such as Caesar couldn't have instantly transmitted his orders across such a length of terrain, and amidst such chaos and confusion as the Teutoburg Forest. I would even go so far as to absolve Varus of the scouting mishap, since the whole defeat was an inside job. Judging men such as Varus at Teutoburg, Crassus at Carrhae and Varro at Cannae, through the lens of 20/20 hindsight is a fruitless, and unprofessional endeavour as a historian. It says nothing about the person and the validity of their judgement. Nobody, not the greatest genius, can work with information that they do not have. We can only make a decision based on information near at hand. Releasing the snobbery of the Roman writers' inability to grasp defeat, and abandoning the oversimplified mindset of the armchair general is a refreshing and professional way to view things. Your videos are exceptional.

[@cidadao.romano]

Great Invicta!

[@mark6809mm]

Only looking back with hindsight can we see it was an defeat that had long term consequences. Whereas Cannae spurned Rome to destroy Hannibal and Carthage and Aurausio caused Marius to come to prominence and lead him to professionalise the Legions.

[@oltyret]

What was Varus thinking? Same thing Custer was thinking: Move fast; crush rebellion - like I always do. Ignore reports of unprecedented massing of hostile tribes because that just doesn't fit with my experience.

[@edmedlin2109]

Awesome job my friend!

[@julez2106]

Highly informative video! Really enjoyed how you compared the different sources, I've watched The Barbarians and read a lot about this topic but this definitely gave me a new insight and understanding for Varus and his actions. History treats him far too harshly.

[@oompalumpus699]

The good 'ole let's blame the guy who tried their best while making our own homies look better and cooler in comparison.

[@seanmac1793]

he also happens to be dead and isn't that coinvent