What We Remove to Make Games Run Better

[@RandalxFlagg]

One of the problems with the 8 encounters per day is that many tables aren't having time related problems. If you have a ticking clock where "the ritual will complete in 3 days" the party gets 2 long rests. Slapping 18 fights / traps between the party and the ritual forces the party to not just set up camp as often and makes them choose when those big refreshes. Ammunition is only something I make players track when there is a real reason they might run out (will be in the wilds for several weeks for example). I was hard core on enforcing darkness rules exactly once, and even my dark vision having characters are carrying lanterns. I personally enjoy encumbrance, but none of the people I play with do. Enforcing somatic, material, and verbal components is *incredible* as a tool for the DM, especially when you realize that bad guys will be aware that ripping the pendant off a cleric's neck is super impactful, or magic items that clamp around a wizard's hands (that the party can use too!) is a lot of fun.

[@NoFunAllowed]

All fantastic examples!

[@archersfriend5900]

Standard 5e is boring, don't play it. Use the rules as intended.

[@azzaelulbrinter]

I personally saw the light a few years ago, when I noticed that creating dungeons and locations which total XP in encounters equals the daily xp budget, makes the dungeon more challening and the final boss actually hit at the intended difficulty. Since then I've sticked to the "about 8 encounters a day", except that instead of being literally an in-world day, I limit how often PCs can benefit from a Long Rest so that they distribute their resources throughout more days.

[@NoFunAllowed]

a great way to aproach that!

[@sam7559]

They already can only benefit from one every 24 hours. What else are you doing?

[@azzaelulbrinter]

@@sam7559 can benefit from long rest ONLY at "safe places", so during overland travel they cant benefit from them until they arrive to their destination (unless i show mercy and put a safe place to rest in the middle). Also made this during descent into avernus, where it was easier to restrict safer places by narrative. Same logic can be applied to underdark or similar dangerous regions.

[@jefffisher1297]

This is the reason why 5E is mistakenly called a Role Playing Game, it is not, it is in fact a "Character Building Game" the entire purpose of the game is to buy as many features as you can in the form of WOTC Products. 5E Characters are over powered from level 1 on up, and yet as pointed out many players are not content to work for anything, they want a level bump to as mentioned, have access to all those features. As 5e's success wanes, players who enjoy challenges have started to embrace the older style games where your character could actually die...

[@NoFunAllowed]

OSR all the way haha

[@kailenmitchell8571]

Heroic fantasy vs Classic gritty fantasy. Im an old DM and player and I love the old classic gritty fantasy. I rather have those simulation rules available. However I am likely in the minority. Also you have to consider if you want horror stories in your game system. It is REALLY HARD to do a horror story with fantasy superheroes.

[@NoFunAllowed]

i prefer classic as well!

[@DorsonKieffer]

DCC fixed all this stuff for us.

[@NoFunAllowed]

All the glorious random tables haha

[@swahnberg77]

What is DCC?

[@matthewshimabuku]

Attunement slots for magic items, ammunition tracking, and darkvision are features of 5e that I don't use in the games I run.

[@NoFunAllowed]

Haha all fair examples!

[@archersfriend5900]

Power creep!

[@mattking8257]

I tend to try and keep rules more fluid at the start of a campaign when players may still be grappling with the rules themselves and new classes. As they become more familiar with the system, I tighten things up. I also regularly ask myself "is this actually fun?" and "does it serve the overall story?" both when planning a session and when running it.

[@NoFunAllowed]

thats a great way to aproach the game haha!

[@thereal_starboy]

I feel like 5e gives you a ton of these rules that kinda… “don’t exist until someone looks at them” like at this point I think as a DM I’m gonna look at the character sheets as a reference point as to how my world works. If a player has a bunch of features that indicate they want to grapple people or jump then those rules become important, but then I’ve had multi year campaigns where nobody ever jumps or only my minions are grappling so it becomes less important. Same with spells. If I see a ranger or Druid in the party I might as well throw all my notes on food and hunger conditions in the garbage because of the existence of goodberry

[@thereal_starboy]

All this is to say that I don’t know how many rules I remove necessarily, rather the better question is “how many rules do I add” 😅

[@NoFunAllowed]

haha adding them in is the fun part!

[@thereal_starboy]

Meant to say “how many of the rules from the rule book do you add… or focus on”… not articulating myself well today 😴

[@danielvarns3573]

Yes to everything from starboy. We don't want the new rule books to remove these rules. Every campaign will use a different amount of the rules. I do the same as starboy when I dm. Let the players interact with the rules they want to. Use the rules you want to. Even if you only use the survival rules once ever for a short campaign, they have value there.

[@DanielDillman]

I've been playing since 1980. D&D, AD&D 1e, 2e, 3 and 3.5e, and a little of 5e. Other systems as well. Anyone can play a fully fleshed-out, experienced, powerful character. You want to impress me? Play that level one and work them up. Finesse it. Show me your role playing ability, not just that you can roll dice and use high level skills and spells to dominate. You're playing a character, that person has a life. A background. Learned skills. We as people don't start out as the CEO, we have to work up from the mailroom. Your character is the same way, they have to work at life to get what they want, to get better at what they do. Sometimes they lose. Sometimes they die. That's life. You want to toss out some minor detail rules like survival, fine. Especially at mid or high levels where a character can be assumed to have learned to handle that already. At first level? I'd still think about making some checks against survival. Do I check that characters have worked to keep their weapons and armor in good condition or ammunition supplied? Again, probably not once they have a few levels under their belt, unless something specific happens to warrant a check, or say magic arrows that definitely can be lost. Learn to play the game at all levels, as mentioned it's kinda like having different games in one.

[@oldomen3788]

Even in terms of survival aspects. I do use them but i use homebrew variants. For about half my games. /Makes curses, diseases, injuries harder to cure. I think if i want to list one unique homebrew I use something called blue's fighting styles. Basically allows a martial class to learn a fighting style thatvwill typically increase a stat. Such as:AC, SAVING THROWS. Or can give advantage of disarming or grappling etc. I like it for some needed flavor for martial classes

[@SortKaffe]

Looking forward to your rest house rules! I hoped that the 2024 rules would actually get rid of short rest, buy WotC ended up weighing backwards compatibility higher than creating the best possible game system

[@NoFunAllowed]

they wanted a 5.5 without calling it 5.5 haha

[@RottenRogerDM]

Adventure League handles the encounter per day problem by having harder encounters most of the time. However, some of the books appear only schedule about two encounter per day.

[@NoFunAllowed]

i sometimes prefer the AL modules over the book module its based on haha

[@Zr0din]

Are you back man? Cool! Looking forward to your deep dive on one of the new adventures. I love the detail and help you gave for Frostmaiden. Frankly it made a good (in my opinion) game into a Great one. I know a lot of other people feel that book was bad BECAUSE you needed people like you to fix it. @6:00 I think the survival mechanics in Chult and Icewind Dale. I'm kinda shocked to hear this. If the greater majority says survival in the snow is difficult and we don't want to role play it - then make sure you have a Ranger in your party. OR... If you are removing that- do we need to add anything? I don't think so. We shave until we hit skin.

[@NoFunAllowed]

thank you so much!

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

I’m in a campaign now that we are getting 6-8 encounters a day it’s crazy as a bard. We started at level 1. You make some good points

[@NoFunAllowed]

That song of rest must get some good milage haha

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

@@NoFunAllowed yes it does

[@davecam4863]

I think its a big slog.

[@crimfan]

A good bit of it is that some of those parts of the game that are skipped are skipped because they’re boring or poorly designed. Modularity would help. In a game featuring mummies, diseases and curses should play a role. As to making level 1 better, look at 4E. That’s exactly how it worked. One thing I do change is dominated options (ones that are clearly bad) or ones that don’t support the theme of the game I’m trying to run.

[@NoFunAllowed]

More and better rules!

[@williamgordon5443]

A couple of notes. I don't see anything in the PH saying that says that you need to look for a safe spot to sleep at night. In fact, the long rest mechanic has a feature that say that the players can keep watch while resting to help make it safe. The DMG has two graphs about encounters. One is XP per encounter difficulty (by level) and XP per day (by level). When I did the calculations for encounters per day by level, I got 6.something normal encounters per day for 16 of the levels, about 7 for levels 5 and 20, 7.5 for level 10 and 8 for level 3 (harder encounters should be fewer per day). And that was if each encounter was hitting the exact XP per encounter. Hard encounters were between 4 and 5 encounters a day. So for most levels, it's only 6 normal encounters per day. Martials do have a number of resources, the main one being HP (along with rage, ki, action surge, second wind, indomitable). If the spellcaster is running out of spells, then the martial is probably running out of HP, especially if the martial is a front liner.

[@NoFunAllowed]

I still fireball is op op haha

[@jonivirolainen4751]

Survival rules are good to have since there are, at least a few, tables that count food and water so I wouldn't ditch those. Maybe add a surival "swich" and when that mode is on, perhaps create food etc. spells are omitted from the campaign and normal food and water etc. are actually a thing? I would ditch the assumption of x number of encounters per day or even per session. Every table is different and to me encounters (whether social, combat or exploration) varies based on situation and story. So, if those daily or similar restrictions would be changed to something else, it would allow more flexible use of rules.

[@NoFunAllowed]

i want to make a split between "basic" and "advanced" system!

[@archersfriend5900]

Turns out removing stuff makes a crappy game. If you follow encumbrance and gold for experience it becomes a better game. 5e is waaay to easy.

[@NoFunAllowed]

Gold for xp lets go!

[@marshmellow5174]

where'd you get the art for the backdrop at 4:30? looks awesome

[@NoFunAllowed]

I know it's official dnd art, it's either from the MtG set, or from a naughtical adventure!

[@earmarkaudiologyllc8444]

Running a lot of games I watch players discuss all the cool new features they get when leveling up. My response is I don’t care I run monsters.

[@ZeKiwiOfTheNorth]

When i ran West March-style games, all three of these points were at play; we used survival mechanics, a greater number of encounters per day due to hex crawling, and PCs only adventured between levels 1 and 6. But now in running a more narrative game with a fixed group of PCs, most of this has gone out the window. WotC won't cut those features, because they want to appeal to as broad of an audience, playing as many styles of the game as possible. It's equal parts truth and a cop out when they say that you should adjust the rules to best suit your table. I don't know if I've definitely *dropped* any rules, but my table asked to use the ruling that it's an action to administer a potion to someone else, a bonus action to take it yourself. *Edit to add: i almost forgot, we did get rid of opportunity attacks except for PCs with Extra Attack, and for specific monsters. It made combat a little more dynamic, because players are less skittish about moving around.

[@NoFunAllowed]

I need to make a video about west marches soon haha

[@jarydf]

We play a super bare bones version of dnd that focuses on the PCs getting a new ability in gameplay and they play with that one before they get a new one. Their new powers could be a better version of one they already had.

[@NoFunAllowed]

I dig it!

[@tomgartin]

I think the key is being able to use a mini game during a session to make a particular story point more fun. Trying to keep all of them going all the time, like survival mechanics or gritty realism, eventually just drags the whole system down

[@NoFunAllowed]

fair fair!

[@thomasarcher2108]

Some of these features and things had been changed in a prior edition called 4th edition, all classes had abilities that came back every encounter, some abilities once a day, healing was much more potent, and wizards dealt with backlash, there was problems with math and balance but i think another draft that system would have improved

[@NoFunAllowed]

A 4.5 huh haha

[@ekurisona663]

throw out levelling unlocked skills - have players learn skills from masters of those skills, then have them gain xp for using the skill (not just when used successfully) - in this way they can learn anything, anytime, and gain mastery at the rate they choose to use the skill

[@NoFunAllowed]

i do love me some earned skills!

[@xdanieljamesx]

I love tier one

[@NoFunAllowed]

haha same

[@DigitalinDaniel]

I gutted my D&D games down to essentially EZD6 levels a decade ago and never cared to look back. Now I'm slowly creating a world of unique races, spells, abilities, locations, and other worldbuilding stuff. The way it works is each level a player gains a new level-less feat or spell so you advance with horizontal progression not vertical progression, and you can build into whatever kind of character you want, no classes. There's no HP per level so there's basically no numerical issue with a new player joining a higher level group... or a player missing a few game nights.

[@NoFunAllowed]

Awesome stuff!

[@themasterseye]

I actually think we are already seeing in a lot of places that people are wanting more in depth exploration of a lot of those mechanics that they strip out of 5e. I dont think people strip things out of 5e because they dislike the idea of the mechanics, I think it is because 5e covers a lot of bases, but covers them ion a half-assed, and uninspiring way. Systems like pathfinder that bring depth to the mechanics and give people a reason to actually consider them interesting. My personal opinion is that it is better for a system to have too many mechanics that can be ignored, than it is for a system to have too few mechanics. Assuming the system is built in a way that ignoring the mechanics doesnt then break the system entirely.

[@NoFunAllowed]

thats a fair way to look at it!

[@ekurisona663]

build your own game using systems, classes, and tables copy-pasted from any game you want

[@Phleanix]

Survival aspects are very much in play consistently in the area of the game world I run. It’s a desert-land. Wanna cross the desert? Better have the right gear and supplies. That also means there are a number of encounter opportunities. In terms of not wanting to start/play at lower levels, it’s actually DMs I see choosing this more than players. The DMs I’ve spoken to point out how boring and underwhelming the monsters / creatures / situations are that you can feasibly throw at the PCs. Biggest *plus* for running lower level characters: time to learn everything. Great for new players… or players trying new classes.

[@NoFunAllowed]

i love me some low levels haha!

[@brianpower3954]

I used to think the way of just start at level 4/5. But as a dm I think the lower leveler are amazing for party development. Things can change significantly between levels 1-4. And yeah survival is a cool idea but really sucks to implement, “I cast good berry”… lol

[@NoFunAllowed]

"I cast leominds tiny hut and get a free long rest" haha

[@Centorios]

My CoS survival horror setting got clusterfucked by goodberries. The tone of the campaign changed to dark fantasy horror survival to fantasy comedy with serious shit

[@brianpower3954]

I’m not a huge fan of banning spells but if I ever run Rime of the Frost maiden again, I’ve got a list of things

[@Joshuazx]

Of the things you described in your video: I like survival mechanics and I think survival is fun, but 5e has rules and low level easy-access powers that make survival mechanics redundant. There is no substantial cost to the players to make food, water, or light, to avoid exposure or to avoid or recover from exhaustion, and to recover lost HP and magic. I would axe those rules and powers in favor of the survival mechanics. Survival mechanics need to be simple and intuitive, and players need to have an appreciation for exploration with risk-reward which gets forgotten about as players get access to more powers like TELEPORT. 6-8 encounters per day is not a rule, it's a design principal for assuming how attrition will effect the players so you can design encounters. 6-8 encounters per day can't be enforced by the GM without railroading because of the other rules / mechanics designed into the game and the player's agency. The players would avoid the encounters they don't like or they would force an opportunity to rest and pass the day. I also like low level play and would axe higher levels. I also like low magic settings and would axe things like cantrips. I just finished a game as a level 20 character in a high magic setting and I could not wait for it to be over. A lot of games I like that are an older version of D&D or a game derived from D&D have axed these things: 1. Ax stats for social interaction (Lamentations of the Flame Princes RPG, GRUPS, Cogent Role-Play) because when you do a social encounter, you need to resolve it with role-play, not dice; That's how you play an RPG. 2. Ax the race section with racial powers because you don't need to design races (Open Legens RPG completely did this, other games get rid of sub-race options). 3. Ax subclasses and just allow players more customization with their class (D&D 3rd edition, the Star Wars RPG based on D&D 3e). 4. Ax skills because if you have abilities, you don't need skills and vice versa (Versions of D&D that came out before D&D 2e, Basic Fantasy RPG, Index Card RPG, Old Swords Reign, Open Legends RPG). 5. Ax levels about 10 or 12. (Old Swords Reign, Basic Fantasy RPG, Open Legend RPG). What else would I ax? Honestly, I would ax 5e and 5e clones from the hobby if I could. Index Card RPG axed exp, levels, and skills and lets you spend points to build your characters Stats and Efforts then further build your character with special abilities and loot. Open Legend RPG axed classes and lets you spend points of attributes, feats, and special actions. These are also both games that Axed money and ammo tracking in their own way. ALL of the games I haved mentioned so far axed HIGH HP; They are all low HP games so that no one and nothing is a boring damage sponge. Cogent Role-Play has an injury system instead of HP. I don't hate vancian magic, but I don't love it, so I would ax it. I would use roll-to-cast instead. I would also ax the magic catalog in favor of a magic system where the players and GM make up the spells. I would also ax the double move (DASH Action) because it F's with chases. You can only run a chase if everyone has the same movement.

[@NoFunAllowed]

some of the many reasons i run OSR systems haha

[@DrakeTheCaster]

1. Survival mechanics - I don't use em, I don't like the idea of enfocring them on the players. However I think they are good/cool optional rules that are good for campaigns where you are primarily traversing the wilderness. Plus those low level spells that negate it are actually great ways to let those classes/characters shine imo. I think the base-line rules of needing to eat and rest regularly are important for immersion purposes. Like being mechanically punished shouldn't be the main focus so much as the excuse for your characters to sit around at the end of an in-game day, chat and just roleplay. Thay being said I think they should stick around under the umbrella of 'optional rules' 2. Low Level skips: Some people just don't like the high-risk/mortality rate thay coems at lower levels. But I do think most people just don't feel complete without their full subclass. This issue is compounded by classes who technically do get their subclass at level 1 like the Warlock or Sorceror. Sure it makes sense those classes have rheir defining title and traits at lvl 1, but they don't have to imo. Why can't a level 1-2 Warlock simply be called/considered an Acolyte, aka either somone still 'window shopping' for a patron or perhaps working to earn the favor/power of their chosen one? Why can't a level 1-2 sorceror not yet have discovered or even fully developed their unique magical talent? Why are you in the same way considered a Paladin at lvl 1 when you technically don't take your oath to level 3? It's kinda all messy and I think the gane could benefit from optional rules around when/how your character chooses or unlocks their subclass. 3. Encounters per day: There are two issues with this one. Firstly assuming all encounters are combat based, or will otherwise somehow exhaust your resources. The second is assuming your casters won't just hoard their resources and only cast ritual or at-will spells and cantrips in most scenarios until things get reall bad for the whole party. Either way there needs to be a better solution than just wearing down the party with constant or high-challenging encounters constantly.

[@NoFunAllowed]

For sure, crossing the river, scaling the mountain, and dodging the avalanche are all "encounters"

[@laurenbraun37]

Honestly tracking resources was always boring for me in games. In a system where you can magically make food and water, keeping track of rations never made sense to me. Plus then I’m spending more time counting my money and supplies than I am enjoying the game

[@NoFunAllowed]

Counting the supplies IS enjoying the game haha!

[@aurvay]

i’m apalled by the number of “content creators” that couldn’t figure out the SINGLE HACK they need to fix the game is that they need to tie HD to prof. bonus instead of level. Just fixes almost all problems with 5E. And you run the game for 3 people. 4 people is %33 percent too much.

[@NoFunAllowed]

cries in running for 5-6 players haha

[@aurvay]

@@NoFunAllowed even when i run for 4 of my best friends who know, trust, respect and appreciate each other, either one of them feels left out, or all of them feel that the game is lacking somehow. we should just give up on pretending that this is a game for 4 people at this point, let alone 5 to 6 douchebags who try to spit on everything you hold dear lmao

[@Coffee_Nutz]

Been a military chef that's had to cook in the field of war of two different warfronts... Goodberry does nothing for your moral. just because you can magic away in the field of reality certain issues, DnD has the same problems that military in field have. I've ran many games all the way to 20th level and beyond and here is some reality checks... in real world just purifying your water will only do half the fixing of your water. Some things are still unremovable, or you could add in that you can use higher version to clean those as well. Goodberry, is like eating dry brussels sprouts once a day, it only sedates never satisfies. Meaning nourishment issues, then the simple fact that the NPC know the same spells, which means if players get out of hand, send a mirror team at them. Issues I noticed that 5th has, which a great example being that component requirements of identify over the editions keep removing aspects(personally I let the players find upgraded spell versions instead or purified components to giving better spells results). I started using 3rd and 2nd to better understand spell functions and add it to 5th to augment economy issues, overall, less is more... and showing that they can succeed at lower levels helps. When I run lower levels, i tend to do more social encounters kind of more like boot camp, as they grow it becomes life threatening 5-15, and war like until 20. 20+ turns into more game of thrones, and tie the world the built to their life forces in a sense... godlikes need worship in a sense. Much of this info was written in the BCEMI boxes. Personally I've swapped to SWADE and replaced its mechanics on all DnD adventures and the players love it, makes them view the game in a new light. Very easy to convert any module into SWADE rules. I'm wanting to do some playthroughs for KZbin using SWADE on a DnD adventure module here soon... love your stuff FYI. Final note, maybe they should go back to 2nd with over explaining and giving more world depth and flush out the worlds, instead or this bland mash potatoes aspect. Basic Rule set, Advance rules set, then add rules and support for world building and better ways to DM stop looking to whale out the player base...

[@NoFunAllowed]

i dig making a basic and advanced set for running the game!

[@richardsobeck583]

It's the same game no matter what. Make believe, and whatever system you use gives you an idea for how to judge how a certain situation ends. In the correctional facility I lived at, I heard in segregation (the hole), guys would play a game called "pimp in the making." And one guy would tell the story, often times telling the "player" how he found himself on some corner street, with this much money and one shoe. They would then basically roleplay a story where the one guy would say what he does to make money, and the other guy would be the "dungeon master." No rules. No dice. All played shouting from one cell to another maybe 50 feet away.

[@NoFunAllowed]

Haha I dig that!

[@Venjax420]

Personally... I'm part of the group who wants to start at lvl3 because of subclasses... if every class got their subclasses at lvl1, I wouldn't mind starting that low.

[@NoFunAllowed]

I think i'm gonna make a video on the concept of sub classes and how it impacts the gam!

[@majesticwizardcat]

For me the fun of the game comes the roleplaying and the leveling up/customization. I think because of that, I'd say survival is pointless for me, it should be an expansion not core. Even while playing ToA, we never felt that we needed to care about food and water, it was just pointless. Even things like ammo is pointless for me, I really don't care if my players track it, it's just ruins the experience for me and the ranger who is already suffering for playing Ranger. Encounters and classes are really hard to handle. If you playing a roleplaying oriented campaign, a combat oriented class is probably useless and the player will get bored. This is the oposite on a more combat oriented campaign. I think in the end, this comes down to the players and DM involved and a session 0 to figure all that out beforehand. This way, encounters can be meaningful and you can use your skills or combat abilities and spells accordingly, meaning getting spells or abilities that are oriented towards the campaing type you play. The important thing here is I belive not the amount of encounters but the quality and how aligned are to the expectations of tha players on the specific table. For resting, I think long rest is very powerful at the moment. I haven't tried chaninging it because I find other ways to force short rests or make long rests have consequences (putting time pressure objectives helps a lot) but if I always think that a long rest should restore half of everything. All players roll all their hit dice for free, they get all their short rest resources back and they get half their resources back. For spell casters, they basically get the total number of slots * the slot level back as spell slots to distribute (eg a level 5 sorc gets back 3 * 2 + 3 * 2 + 4 * 1 spell slots back to distribute as they wish). This might require some tuning. For example for Sorceres, I'd give all the meta magic points back for long rests because it would hurt too much to give back half but for classes that only have one resource, that would be enough. Again, I think the best way to solve rests is to give the players a reason to not miss on something they care and they have to decide i they're going in not fully rested or chose the fights they want to take. Now, this of course is not a mechanic but it is something I'd give a go at. 5e tries a lot to do everything and I don't think it's a bad thing necessary but it requires some communication beforehand between the players to make sure everyone gets what they want or at least adjust their expecations. There are lots of parts to improve and maybe having this discussion will get a better version out there.

[@NoFunAllowed]

I certainly hope discussing it makes it better!

[@davecam4863]

I kind of ignore the adventuring day mechanics because it makes everything about combat as a way to drain resources.

[@NoFunAllowed]

fair haha

[@ekurisona663]

remove combat altogether, roll for positive and negative consequences, effects, items gained/lost - why? bc so many people dont fight to find out if theyre going to survive (they expect to win) - they fight to gain xp and loot, so skip to the xp and loot lol - focus on exploration, story, interacting with the world

[@KayTelleHoel]

Controversial opinions? The status effects that paralyze a character are unfun. Hitpoints should always be max when leveling up. Attunement is boring. Darkvision is a bad idea. Alignment is too simplistic. Spell slots make magic boring. Spell components are tedious. Cantrips should be more scalable and more available. Long rests should only be possible in safe havens. Hit-die healing is silly. Gold and treasure don't motivate players, how can we reward players for creative gameplay and roleplay? Soft railroading should be more tolerated - hours of prep in the garbage feels like crap. I may be playing the wrong system or edition. :) We have lots of fun with D&D though, just keeping it light and fun.

[@NoFunAllowed]

Haha lots of changes here!

[@Jeromy1986]

Really, I want to be able to use survival mechanics. I just can't mostly because it's unpopular, but also if I solo that's a lot of paperwork. Plus I hardly know the rules as it is. I don't know how differently I would feel if the rules weren't actually there. I tend to be a rule follower by default (even if I am the kind of person who will just give you the gist of a rule rather than obnoxiously quoting that shit verbatim).

[@NoFunAllowed]

haha playing solo does help you learn rules!

[@Jeromy1986]

You're tellin' me! I've only tried Phandelver and Below, and one of my PCs sent an errant firebolt into the woods. I was at a loss as to whether or not this would cause a forest fire. I had to launch into research.

[@zhornlegacy7936]

Immediately off the bat: "... these can be solved easily with low level spells..." That's why the adventuring day matters. Any time you spend a resource; that expenditure needs to be weighed as spending something you only have a finite use of. If your adventuring day concludes and you have extra resources (spell slots) you didn't use; that's a sign you're taking easier/safer than what your character is capable of. Followed up with "... it's unlikely you'll get 6 to 8 encounters a day ...." Hits the nail on the head. You're playing the game in a way the rules were not designed around; of course those base rules are not going to reflect your experiences. It's like complaining your coffee-maker is bad at making orange juice. When you don't use something in the way it was designed, of course it's going to seem like it doesn't work. If your game is modelled on "1 encounter - > rest -> repeat" then any semblance of balance has been thrown out the window. Play the game however you like. Do what's fun for your table. But if you want to critique the rules and guidance presented in the books, at least have the curtesy of doing so with the understanding of what the system was designed around.

[@NoFunAllowed]

i like the changup of short rest is 8 hours, long rest is a week. it helps me feel the tempo shift a lot more in my games!

[@zhornlegacy7936]

@@NoFunAllowed oof, no no no. Gritty Realism [DMG p267] is one of those fake mechanics that isn't actually doing anything (* not in a positive sense anyway, will return to this point). In execution it's a change in the time between rests and encounters in the pace that either the DM or the Players choose as to how many encounters per Short Rest and between Long Rests; something which is already 100% within the DM and Players control without the rule. * what is DOES do is just mess with the timing on duration spells. So spells with long durations that are meant to last a whole adventuring day (8hrs or 24 hrs) are now likely to instead run out when only active for a single encounter, and so puts a burden on DMs to do a bunch of additional homebrewing to bring back up in value for their spell slots. Same to be said for 10min and 1hour duration spells; the intent is for them to last over multiple encounters in your classic room-by-room dungeon crawl scenario, but with the stretched timescale of Gritty Realism they are too likely a one-and-done expenditure. Gritty Realism is also inflexible when if comes to adventuring pace. Enter a dungeon with more than 3 encounters and the players will get shafted in needing 24 hours just to Short Rest, at which point the enemies could escape, call in reinforcements, destroy the player's objective, etc etc etc. Gritty Realism is one of those rule sets that often people are dishonest about when recommending, regularly they have never actually used it and just want to sound like they have an answer without experiencing how trash it is to run. If looking for an adjustment to rest/healing dynamics; Slow Natural Healing [also DMG p267] is your better option. Timescale is unchanged, so it doesn't futz with the longer spell durations and needless nerfs. What it does do is remove the big issue you noted in your video on Long Rests making recovery too simple in going back to full after an 8hr break. Think of it in terms of 1 Hit Dice of healing equates to 1 Weapon Hit of damage (ie: dice + mod). Before spells being used on healing, a character has a number of Hit Dice equal to their level, and recovers HALF that amount on completing a Long Rest. What this does in practice is the DM (before healing spells) only needs to worry about enough damage to a player character to get them to spend at least half their total hit dice in any adventuring day. ANY hits counts, so even lover CR creatures and traps add to this hit dice tally. As long as you can get the PCs to spend over half their hit dice in an adventuring day; their NEXT day they will start with less hit dice. And if they don't have enough hit dice to top themselves off on their rests (again Long Rest recover half hit dice on completion, not before, so newly recovered dice cannot be used on that rest), this forces potions and spells to be burned on healing proactively, leaving less spells for wasting on random/simple solutions throughout the adventuring day. Conserving spell slots, having non-magical solutions (food/water), becomes more and more important because damage from the adventuring day STICKS. Taking a little bit of damage is another hit dice or spell slot which is no longer available later, making the battle of attrition reinforce the survival mechanics that so often get poo-poo'd on from the crowd who only ever run the 5min adventuring day. In conjunction with Slow Natural Healing, I recommend one small houserule: "You cannot short rest unless you are spending at least one hit dice" What this does is put a soft restraint on Slow Rest classes that get healing without resorting to massive nerfs (also solves coffeelock without resorting to a hard ban). My current weekly campaign has been run this way for the past ~3 years (they are almost lv19), and the past two campaigns also used this (2 year and 1 year respectively). the attrition model solves the major issues of the 5min adventuring day, gives greater relevance to those 'lesser' concerns of "there's a spell for that" because low level spells have a much higher value when healing becomes more important day-to-day so you'd not want to waste them on things that can be solved without them. It's also much simpler to DM for when it comes to high level characters, because you don't need to resort to rocket tag or having a CR 30 monster every session, because as long as you get that half hit dice expenditure minimum, you are freed up to use traps, low CR threats, gauntlets, hazards, anything day-to-day. 1 weapon hit = 1 hit dice, so even a level 20 character only need to take the equivalent of 10 normal hits over the full day for that day to matter. It's also flexible that you can still do high CR action days, dungeon crawls, low multi-encounter, swapping between any of them under the same rule set without running into weird incompatibilities. I hope this helps you.

[@thiccboicory9964]

we have tried to use them but we just went with make sure your group has purchased enough food for how ever long you think you will be out of town. and running bunch of combat slows the game down my players are more of trap solving and sneaking or trying to skip combat. we do run boss fights and set piece battle. as a dungeon master I enjoy low level combat its alot of fun I wont run games that start off at higher levels I want my players to get to know there characters it helps with roleplay moments. I say do what the players want if they want to keep track of ammo and things i say go for it. we play online so me keeping track of there spells hp and items is cake work. but the rules are are there to help us run a games more of a guide line. rest I dont give much to them they need to learn to save there stuff and be smart they know they can die at any moment and will gladly roll a new sheet . rule 0 talk to your play group and know what everyone is wanting out of this game and try your best to make that happen. but dont forget the most importation rule have fun.

[@NoFunAllowed]

For sure, talking it out makes the funnest game possible!

[@ADHDnD13]

We want survival rules, we just want better and enjoyable ones

[@NoFunAllowed]

haha fair

[@archersfriend5900]

I do!

[@PjotrFrank]

Unpopular opinion: Remove all the fidgety resource pools and replace it with a good, granular, general fatigue system. Keeping track of spell slots, superiority dice, ki points, sorcery points, and what have you, makes the adventure feel quite slow-paced and nit-picky, IMO. Let the player characters exhaust themselves with breathtaking stunts, mind-numbing displays of magic, and real consequences, instead of constantly unloading their myriad magazines of resource pools, before those immersion breaking rests. Verisimilitude, man!

[@NoFunAllowed]

i dig it!

[@MemphiStig]

To your first point, the Hobbit and LOTR were just big travelogues, and iirc the only time food was a problem was late in ROTK when Frodo and Sam were running out of their magical Elven rations. And they didn't starve either. But it did feel like a bit of a hardship for a *minute* there. And how many encounters a day did *any* of those groups have ever, except for the big battles? And yeah, *nobody* wants to start at the bottom, and *everybody* wants to complain about how *other* people act privileged and entitled. I think maybe the audience you're talking about is going to push the game right back into full-on 4e style. But what do I know? I was happy with 3e, but I don't hate or object to any edition. Play what you want. It's an effin' game. Just quit whining. 😇

[@NoFunAllowed]

itll be 4e, but without the combat haha!

[@Kazdok]

Fourth Edition did a lot of what people seem to want out of fifth in terms of being awesome at level one, less emphasis on survival, more renewable abilities, magic item economy. Just saying. ;)

[@NoFunAllowed]

it just couldnt grab the hearts and minds of the people sadly haha

[@travman228]

4e for the win

[@Kazdok]

@@NoFunAllowed It's funny, too. I was running games at the store at the time and got a LOT of people into D&D that had bounced off of earlier editions. But of of course a lot of existing players bounced off of 4th. So it goes...

[@jayteepodcast]

Players just want to Larp. They just want to act in goof ways

[@NoFunAllowed]

haha goof troop

[@thebeatles9]

very good video

[@NoFunAllowed]

thank you!

[@ReplicatorFifth]

I love the concept of the survival and hard core rules. But, I've found while running Icewind Dale, is my players are unwilling to do more then 1 or 2 encounters during a day and will wait it out until they can long rest before moving forward. Oh and they always wait out blizzards... *sigh* I've yet to find a solution for these issues x.x One major regret I have is letting them start at lvl 3 so most could get their sub-classes or multiclass ideas started...(that one was totally on me though since my players are super cool and were open to whatever I wanted to do to get the campaign rolling)

[@NoFunAllowed]

5e rest mechanic abuse can really only be solved through a major amount of homebrew or through dire time constraints that force the players to move forward sadly.

[@ReplicatorFifth]

@@NoFunAllowed good point. I’ll have to figure out something. Destruction’s Light chapter already has a built in time constraint but the rest of the campaign doesn’t :(

[@archersfriend5900]

A lot of players do not want a game that requires effort and skill.

[@hellsente7826]

Seems to me that you're right for the wrong reasons.

[@NoFunAllowed]

haha you hate to see it

[@hellsente7826]

@@NoFunAllowed More or less 😆 You're walking the path of mass marketing and compromising the quality of traditions to appease manipulated masses. Magic: the Gathering is where this kind of direction for the hobby is leading things... more character sheets with buttons, and we're already seeing booster packs for content. The other road leads to actually using the exploration pillar and mud league.. .immersion in setting... less rules features , less superheroes... The masses of people who want to play videogames will do just that. I worry that if you give them what they want and they'll choke on it while tearing down the hobby for everyone else.

[@IanBoyte]

That's a dry intro. I can't tell if you're dripping with sarcasm or not.

[@NoFunAllowed]

haha i just didnt want to say "5e has outsold all ttrpgs by a large margin"

[@DarkinQusitor]

D&D 5TH edition Sucks, awoid at all costs.

[@NoFunAllowed]

haha hard to avoid the titan in the room