What Went Wrong? Uber Driver's 120,000 mile Tesla Experiment!

[@ronrosenberg4058]

Nov 27. Any updates on Dobson’s GoFundMe?

[@ItsKimJava]

Surprising Uber Driver w/ Money for NEW Tesla! kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIWuY5ltgd6dhq8

[@garyrooksby]

$15k raised already. Great to see.

[@bign1667]

Whatever you do sell the tesla and buy a camry/lexus

[@bikeman1x11]

why encourage this nonsense- let him just get a real car or hybrid

[@duramaxadventures5832]

@@bikeman1x11 it cost $27,000 more per year for an ice.

[@FutureSystem738]

I have a friend who uses his 2021 Model 3 for Uber here in Australia. He’s done 250k already, with minimal degradation, only around 10%. However I’ll add that he rarely Supercharges, maybe only 20% of the time or less. I really believe that Supercharging is hard on batteries.

[@bones23jones]

Do you know if he has the Standard Range LFP or Long Range?

[@V10PDTDI]

@@bones23jones I think they mentioned that is is a std range but not a LFP I think it's a 2018 it has the chrome trim so it's too old to be a LFP but I wish Tesla would give him a new std range LFP car or swap his battery for a new LFP and see him do the same charging 2 time a day like he was doing to se what would happen.

[@bones23jones]

@@V10PDTDI yes that would be a great study for the Tesla family. I drive Uber but less than him and only super charge a couple times a week. At 50,000 miles now. So far so good...

[@robmcguckin7605]

So, he's driven about 30,000 miles more than Dobson (150k miles) but its 2 years newer with less supercharges and yes, fast charging any battery is not good for longevity because of heat degradation.

[@sanahaskuranage8071]

There’s evidence that super charging doesn’t effect degradation

[@crispyjokingtuna1495]

His comparison of the battery to an engine is actually really good. The only problem is that a used engine for a 2019 camry costs less than 3 grand and will last much longer than an ev battery

[@wilson2455]

the issue is that taxi/Uber ICE engines are always at operational temperature. Over 90% of wear within a ICE comes from cold, stop/start driving. If properly maintained, a taxi drivetrain can do 500K+ miles before it needs major repairs or replacement.

[@David.42]

Speaking from experience, a better analogy would be a comparison with a dual clutch or CVT type transmission. The vw/Audi DCTs are replacement only at the dealer, and the cost can easily exceed the trade in value of the car.

[@markseehawer3762]

@@David.42 As a mechanic that i why i drive old vehicles easier to repair cheaper parts

[@SpodeboyGMAIL]

The cost of a ICE engine might be $3k for a Camry, but the labor to install it will be at least another $3-$5k depending on the local market

[@crispyjokingtuna1495]

@@SpodeboyGMAIL it’s still cheaper than a battery every 1-3 years

[@Mynameisgus94]

Man, what a wonderful guy. So honorable and righteous taking a hit like that...Not blaming other for his decision. mad respect to Kim and this man!

[@GeoffCK]

Piss

[@xraylife]

🤮🤮🤮

[@shanemcgovern1904]

How was he to know that the battery would die while trying to earn a living, after all tesla says "battery longevity is not affected by frequent supercharging" I definitely think tesla knew there was an issue with the battery while it was still in warranty. Where is their goodwill towards this man.

[@davidbowl9650]

@@user-lu3nn5ly3f true. if his battery is already a refurb

[@plektosgaming]

@@user-lu3nn5ly3f Absolutely. He's not living out of a shack trying to make ends meet. (very nice house he has there) 300 miles+ of UBER a day is good money. Easily enough to afford a new battery or gas for your hybrid car. And, yes, all batteries eventually die. ALL ALL ALLLLLL of them. Every last one. And when they do, it's a massive outlay. 10K+ in most cases. Often closer to $20K with labor and taxes. Which means that an out of warranty EV is basically something you sell for parts. So resale is part of the equation as well as a business expense. Meaning he knew going in that this was going to devalue to zero by the end as he was 100% going to drive it as long as the batteries DID last. He was just hoping he could get 200K/2 years out of it like his previous Camry. The go fund me is.. just enabling him. He really didn't need the money compared to other people out there.

[@ramfan5149]

Anyone wanna bet his old Camry is still running like a champ!

[@Damonte-g5x]

You know it, and I'm a Chevy man myself

[@G11713]

NMC batteries are powerful but fragile. The LFP ones are heavy duty and long lasting workhorses with better safety as well. That Camry requires fuel and a lot of weekly maintenance. The Tesla requires windshield washer fluid and tire changes occasionally. This battery thing is unusual and fixed with LFP.

[@dongeorge4037]

Damned Straight.

[@BurkaLifter]

@@G11713 you have drank a lot of that koolaid

[@peterwilkinson1975]

@@BurkaLifter switching to lithium iron phosphate batteries is a good choice. It’s hard to say what went wrong with his battery. It’s early days for electric cars, so people who buy them have to deal with all the early adopter problems. Based on what I’ve seen with battery developments that are happening, way cheaper more reliable faster charging 3x the energy density ect. All of the downsides should be solved in the next 5 years. (There already solved it takes time to develop the manufacturing process to build them). Basically electric will pretty much be superior in every way. All the people who hate change will be the last to switch but ultimately it all comes down to what technology is better.

[@gjc9801]

This guy is a first class human, what a great attitude!

[@snookmeister55]

True. Most people would be very angry in his situation.

[@davidmenasco5743]

You can certainly see why he is popular as a driver.

[@crinabobo7412]

Musk should give him a cybertruck with lifetime battery warranty

[@thesadboxman]

This guy is so honorable. Most people would fully blame Tesla and maybe even righteously go Karen on them. But Dobson takes responsibility and is more than understanding of the whole situation.

[@michaelfagan9620]

@@AudiTTQuattro2003 I've owned 4 toyotas, 2 priuses, a camry, and a sienna, which all went over 200k, but none over 250k.

[@williamcampbell435]

@@AudiTTQuattro2003 Yay and you will pay for oil changes, Air filters, brakes and repairs that you will not on a Tesla and it would be more then 9000$

[@Andriastravels]

Tesla provides Superchargers, yet you use them and they damage your battery. I don't get it, Tesla fans construct their own reality.

[@fivestars9285]

@@Andriastravels Tesla is in the business of making money however possible!

[@davidmenasco5743]

​@@AndriastravelsJust to be precise, Tesla doesn't recommend charging above 80% on a regular basis. It doesn't take a delusion to see the difference between supercharging to 80% for typical daily driving, which amounts to once a week, versus supercharging to 90% twice every day, combined with the amount of driving it takes to use all that energy. The degradation is caused by heat. These two situations involve clear differences where battery temps are concerned. It would be delusional not to see the difference. It is a shame that issues remain to be worked out with battery longevity, but it's still less than 20 years since the first EV was made with Lithium ion batteries. New chemistries are being developed, and new manufacturing methods. These experiences can help improve the products.

[@ChitFromChinola]

Tesla will have to figure it out. This guy is essentially testing out the robo-taxi model.

[@car_tar3882]

Actually Elon is perfect and nothing is wrong and cars shouldn’t have buttons because in 2 minutes they will be robotaxis so shush

[@car_tar3882]

I actually think we should have a megataxi in a boring tunnel and the megataxi could have steel wheels and the boring tunnel would have steel rails and there would be another rail which is energized and it would take energy from the energized rail so no battery degradation

[@carholic-sz3qv]

​@@car_tar3882lol!!!! What a joke!

[@JosefCZ]

Is this LFP? It should be better for taxis

[@carholic-sz3qv]

@@JosefCZ i don’t think LFP is any better! What they need is a larger battery offering for such applications so that it will get less stressed.

[@1001Hobbies]

A Camry engine will give you 300K to 400K miles if you take care of the engine. Could be even more. A friend of mine has a 2014 Ford Focus with 300K and it still runs like new. Whenever the Camry does need a new engine you are looking at about $3,000 - $4,000 with labor.

[@aluisious]

I just bought a Camry hybrid because I'm planning to drive it for 15 years until EV tech is a lot more advanced and sorted out. It might need a $2-3k hybrid battery at 150k miles, which is fine because it saves a decent amount of gas, and the ride is also smoother than the gas only Camry (no transmission, seamless start-stop at lights). If people bought cars to do what they need instead of what some marketing bullshit tries to make them want, they'd buy compact and midsize Japanese sedans.

[@hemiplow1297]

The lithium battery in the Camry will last 300k miles Guaranteed

[@ymcpa73]

I would love to see what would happen to that focus if he put 300k miles over 3 years.

[@hemiplow1297]

@@ymcpa73 he's gonna be in for head gasket issues and all kinds of surprises

[@reuven2010]

a camry requires maintence every week in this scenario

[@SQK1261]

A hybrid like a prius would probably make much more sense in this situation.

[@anticarnick]

Totally what I thought. As a person with papers published in battery research IMHO Tesla sandbags their numbers at the start (they never get the published numbers in range) to preserve the battery from degradation, and then they slowly drop the sandbags until the warranty expires. He needs to K swap this thing :P

[@Daikini0]

They changed my battery in a 9.5 years old Prius over 200K miles under warranty. Tesla is just trying to find the best way to avoid warranty issues. I like Toyota in general because they treat customers as customers.

[@AlexSomers-d2n]

Yes! Toyota tested the hybrid in the Prius but since it was super reliable they put it in less contraversial looking cars.

[@aluisious]

That's why I just bought a 23 Camry hybrid. A little smoother and quieter than the Prius, same power train reliability. @@AlexSomers-d2n

[@chrisrishermn]

@@AlexSomers-d2n contraversial looking cars? That sounds so female. Do you buy cars based on looks that most other people like? Husbands? Houses? Food? Are you really alive or a robot?

[@albuslee4831]

His attitude is super positive and reasonable, considering everything this guy went through. Also, 120k miles in a year isn't uncommon to taxi drivers and Tesla will have to deal with this in proper manner if they're serious with operating a Robo Taxi Fleet.

[@trevorberridge6079]

Tesla do not have an official million mile battery, but they do have taxi and limousine vehicles that have done over 900,000 miles. This is NOT a general issue with Teslas. At 120,000 miles per year he could expect to still get eight years of driving out of the Tesla with no battery issues. This is more likely to be a software issue and not the actual battery in most cases. No car has an unblemished record. But, having said that, the 122 year-old Waverly electric car is still running fine today. Yes that's One Hundred and Twenty-Two years. Not a typo.

[@CJ-tc7xh]

@@trevorberridge6079You’re over exaggerating big time CAP bro if that’s the case they need to raise the warranty mileage

[@trevorberridge6079]

@@CJ-tc7xh Not exaggerating. Just reporting facts.

[@Superz3ro]

@@trevorberridge6079 The encouraging part is that they are trying to develop a million mile battery to complement the motors that already can achieve that much… 🤔

[@bobbyphila623]

@@trevorberridge6079 a bucking go fund me for this..uber gave him 4000 just in xtra cash

[@jesuschristislord77733]

Cab companies use the Prius for a reason. They can put 270k miles on it easily.

[@Area42Gaming]

that's because it's a Toyota not a tesla.

[@scott4825]

Also, their battery packs can reasonably be repaired/refurbished, and even new ones are somewhat reasonable.

[@Area42Gaming]

@scott4825 same with the new gmc batteries, it's such a simple process.

[@Spirited_Driver]

@@scott4825 I mean, a new battery is still more than a complete engine rebuild..

[@Spirited_Driver]

@@Area42Gaming simple yes, cost effective no.

[@jez5855]

Its always admirable to hear a man take responsibility for his actions. But I find it interesting how people in general are so much more forgiving of Tesla for such issues that costs people so much money in repair bills. If a Toyota were to fail prematurely like this, I don't think people would take it as kindly.

[@jaime21121]

You are right but it's all about marketing!

[@tapasranjanpati9472]

Tesla is not a practical car yet. Its for dreamers who want experience Elon Musks work. But imagine if a battery replacement drops to 5k after few years. I dont think it would be a bad deal then.

[@38Flyer]

Kim, kudos to you for being such a kind person. We sure need people like you in our society---especially now.

[@tmorcos21]

I have been an Uber driver for over 9 years and an EV driver for over 4 years. I currently own a 2023 Bolt EUV for Uber, my wife has a 2022 model 3 long range ai just sold my 2021 MYP for a brand new 2023 Model S long range. This is my 3rd Bolt EV/EUV as I average 5000 miles per month here in Southern California and make between 90 and 100000 per year. I change my Bolt every 2 years and 120000 miles as a business expense. If you make 180000 in 2 years and replace a car worth 30000, that means you made 150000 in profit. You didn't mention that if you drove your camry 100000 miles in 1 year, how much that would of cost you in gas, oil changes, brake pads, transmission maintenance, etc. You are still ahead for 9000 dollars. Ask your accountant if that 9000 is a write-off? If you make a good income with your corporate account, get a long range model y for comfort and use the older model 3 for the rest of your rides. I think for most ride share drivers, a 30000 dollar Bolt that gives you 300 miles on a full charge is perfect. Hope this is helpful. Part of doing business my friend. Kim is very right about continuously supercharging your vehicle, leading to faster degradation. A long range also gives you 8 years 120000 miles warranty on the battery and with the S and X it's 8 years and 150000 miles warranty.

[@Henry-by6fj]

Another thing you should get a new Tesla and get all the perks 7,500 tax credit makes it cheaper than most cars and can't even compare the car to others . Second no sales taxes and state discounts. No brainer get a new one and sell the old one . Get LFP 2023 or 2024

[@JifferRiffic]

You wrote a book. I solf my gas car because I didn't want to change the oil. Im about to sell my tesla cause my windshield washer fluid is getting low and I'm unsure how to change it. We need to make these cars more simple. ;-) lol

[@henrikleong1234]

Get the BYD. The battery is much cheaper. 😂😂😂

[@robertkubrick3738]

Long range are Lithium Ion.

[@robertkubrick3738]

@@Henry-by6fj LFP don't qualify for the tax credit, I heard. Not enough NA content. NA content goes up 10% every year for the tax credit.

[@treborg777]

I believe it was all the supercharging that killed the battery. Look at Bjorn Nyland's older videos in which he was using a Model X in a business hauling stuff around Norway. He supercharged a lot and ended up with at least one battery replacement relatively early in the life of the vehicle (but at least one was under the original warranty). The heat from supercharging just kills the battery.

[@darkhorse2reign]

Heat? In Norway?

[@chillywilly7299]

I agree 100% supercharging kills the battery period. I have been riding e bikes 12 years I know.

[@roshansamuel4494]

​@@darkhorse2reignyes! There is that one week in July when the suns rises over the horizon.

[@treborg777]

It’s the heat concentrated in the battery pack while supercharging. Tesla has tried to mitigate this, but ultimately frequent supercharging (especially the most recent high power versions) damages the first-generation lithium packs. We’ll have to see with LFP.

[@V10PDTDI]

Bjorn had to replace the battery pack in his model S P85 but Tesla replaced it under warranty.

[@MrMaxyield]

When bro realized he should have bought an old school Toyota Camry...😂😂😂

[@joecampo1770]

This guy is a class act all the way. Despite what has happened to him and his vehicle, he has a positive and optimistic spin on all of it. Kudos my friend you are a class act.🎉

[@bikeman1x11]

shows how brainwashed clueless EV drivers are

[@izoyt]

he just don't want to have beef with tesla and its layers (yet).

[@elliotoliver8679]

He is deluded by his Telstra ‘family’

[@theclotshotdidit3115]

Imagine buying a petrol or diesel car and you can only use 80% of the fuel tank, and the fuel tank gets smaller each time you fill up 😂😂😂😂

[@yeahyousaidit]

😂😂😂😂

[@adriano8809]

And imagine to sit inside your car for hours at the gas station waiting for it to be “full”.

[@stefanpuffer]

And you have to replace the engine every 100k miles.

[@HomesickforAlaska]

My understanding is that it is not 80% but rather 60%. I believe the recommended charging regimen is only charge to 80% and don't discharge below 20%. That gives an EV with say a 250 mile potential battery range, an actual range of 150 miles if you want to preserve the battery.

[@vincentlanzetta3807]

Great response!

[@desmondstanley4372]

I’m only 13 minutes in right now as of this comment. Before the start and during the pandemic I started Uber in my M3 LR. My vehicle had around 3k miles when I started and when I completely stopped I was around 50k I believe. At the time I lived in an apartment so supercharging was all I had. I was charging twice a day as well. I purchased the vehicle in Dec 2019 and supercharged almost daily until I moved into a home and had the Tesla wall charger installed, this was in July 2021. Forward to 3 weeks ago, October 2023 I had racked up just under 115,000 miles. I’ve been all over the U.S. in my car and have done countless roadtrips after Uber and moving to my new home so I still supercharged a few times a month when on the road. I loved my M3 LR and had no big issues with it. Battery range went from 315 to 287 max and because I was coming up on the 120k warranty loss, I traded it in for a 2023 Model Y. I have no intentions of doing Uber again but roadtripping will definitely be a thing. I think this guy got mix of unlucky and over doing the battery cycles in such a short period.

[@mkfaruki]

STOP abusing the battery. Constant Supercharging, charging to 100% daily, WILL WRECK the battery. Everything has a limit. Tesla should put software in to stop battery ABUSE.

[@ce9916]

This man is so fair-minded, he could be a diplomat. Great guy

[@kronos5385]

I was an Uber driver for a little over 5 years. I had a VW Jetta for the first 2 years getting an average of 25 MPG. I then bought a Toyota Prius (hybrid) and my MPG went up to 50 and my Uber income almost doubled. I never considered a total EV because in Uber you never know where you are going until the rider gets in the car. I would be so stressed out as to how much battery power I had left and you can't charge the battery with a rider in the car. I think a hybrid gas/EV is the best choice for any ride-share driver. My Prius was amazing but it got too old to qualify for Uber. In Connecticut, no ride-share vehicle can be over 12 years old. That's a state law.

[@rRekko]

Is that state related? I know there are countries like mine, where your driver will know the general area you are going to and once they accept the trip they know the exact location.

[@rogerwilco1777]

Same. I sold my 3rd gen Prius and got a Corolla Hybrid AWD.. they're 4k cheaper than the Prius now. They start around $24k (not counting dealer mark-up, i had to pay a $2,750 mark up back in Mar 2023 cause F-U thats why).. but whatever, I needed a car and dealers were trying to sell me 10yr old Kia's with 200k miles for like $13k, so I figured I'd just pay twice as much and get a brand new Toyota. So far its great. The AWD helped greatly in the snowstorms. And it looks just like a normal corolla.. so you dont have the anti-prius jerks constantly road raging you.

[@jeannovacco5136]

That way whatever town you live in, in Connecticut, can charge a lot of personal property tax on the value of your less than 12 year old vehicle. Ps it would be just as bad if he was using this car for commuting over 80 miles a day each way to work and back taking long trips on weekends a few road trip cross country vacations

[@kronos5385]

I don't know if every state charges a yearly tax based on the value of your car but mine does (Ct). At least it goes down every year as your car devalues. The State's explanation for the 12 year rule is that they're looking out for the riders safety. But there's no such vehicle age limit if you just want to deliver food. I think Uber has corporate mandated 15 year allowance on the cars age but, of course, state laws vary and take precedence. This also makes it tough to find a decent vehicle in that age bracket for less than $15,000 to Uber in. I've taken a lot of Ubers as a passenger and most rides I get picked up in are pretty new and cost their owners well over $20,000.

[@bobsmith3983]

@fladave99 Or a small portable ICE generator.

[@HaydonRyan]

I learnt about batteries when I built an electric bike. Rapidly I discovered that cells go bad, in their string. There might be two dead cells but the rest are ok. If the pack isn’t able to swap the cells (for matched cells) then the whole lot is junked. This sudden death is exactly what happened for me. Two dying cells but the rest are ok. They need to be designed to be re-made vs just recycled.

[@JacksonWalter735]

Agreed. If EVs are somehow going to be the future then these fixes need to be possible. So far the only companies I know that replaces dead cells for Teslas, Prius, or other EVs/hybrids are all in California and they’re swamped with customers.

[@Spirited_Driver]

Agree! I dont understand why people are ignoring this fact of battery heartache.

[@TechyGamerVibeZ]

There are new lfp batteries that don’t do this. He has an old Tesla

[@Spirited_Driver]

@@TechyGamerVibeZ Its the nature of lithium batteries from cars to phones.. Not just tesla but any battery, There were even new battery packs exploding in the factory before even getting shipped out to dealerships!

[@TonyMiguel-ko7cz]

@@TechyGamerVibeZyou have zero experience

[@sandyt4343]

The most reasonable man I’ve heard on the subject ever. What ever he does in life he will be a great success. Very eloquent and very articulate in his assessment of the situation.

[@christianramo]

I'll be thinking to get a tesla 3 for uber and lyft but I always say that 300 miles range is not enough for ride shares, now after see this video my thoughts are confirmed, I'll wait for a least a 500 miles battery o a cheaper and affordable price.

[@blipblop92]

Yep too bad he ubers he could do so much more

[@sandyt4343]

@@christianramohe is still a person I would rather be around than a lot of people I know who are very good with money, and little else. Money is only a tool and certainly not the measure of a person’s worth. I have quite a few people in my life with vast wealth, more than they could ever spend, but I only admire the very few who have demonstrated that there is more to their lives than money and certainly more to their worth.

[@m.singleton229]

I found that my mileage is dropping and then I got a notification that my 12 volt battery was not functioning properly. They changed it and my mileage. Went right back up and it was not expensive it was only a hundred dollars. It's a model 3 2021 with 68k miles on it.

[@elliotoliver8679]

Yer as long as stays away from junk EV’s

[@thechuckdriver]

I’m a rideshare driver and passively shopping right now for a new vehicle. And I’m test driving the Tesla model Y next week. Thank you for this video. And that guy is awesome! He def handled that situation with Grace.

[@davistolpulitz]

Can’t beat a VW Jetta

[@zimissscameras]

Y?

[@preludethomas1061]

What did you end up getting?

[@TechyGamerVibeZ]

Make sure you get a 2021+ with the better battery

[@MikeKates]

@@TechyGamerVibeZDecember 2021+

[@jeffmeier1663]

A buddy of mine had a Tesla. At about 100K his mileage declined dramatically as well. He sold it and will not go back to EV anytime soon.

[@elliotoliver8679]

It’s why resale is in the toilet

[@organichotdog3807]

Maybe just not go back to Tesla.

[@vec306]

I do Uber and drive about 150 miles a day 3 days a week so with personal use a total of 500 miles a week. I’ve noticed a slight drop in mileage. I only charge 80% and I only home charge at home.

[@snookmeister55]

Your experience supports the theory that supercharging was the cause of his problem. I think it was either supercharging or a defect. He was really unlucky.

[@cousinjohncarstuff4568]

@@snookmeister55 Charging up to 90 or 95% instead of 80% which is supposed to best?

[@snookmeister55]

@@cousinjohncarstuff4568 Home charging, 85% with nickel battery is the recommendation I've read. I don't own a Tesla, yet.

[@safeandeffectivelol]

Home charge at home? Where else would you home charge?

[@snookmeister55]

@@safeandeffectivelol Not everyone is a homeowner.

[@coop333000333]

$9k for a new battery doesn't sound too bad. A friend of mine just had his diesel engine on his F-250 fail at 130k miles and got quoted over $20k for replacement.

[@XX-166]

Not even close in comparison

[@V10PDTDI]

He said that it was not a new battery he thinks it a refurbish. with one year warranty unlike the chevy bolt recall they give the customer a new and better battery and complete new battery warranty just like a new car.

[@XX-166]

@@V10PDTDI absolutely the bolt wins with less cost and a better warranty and fit and finish.

[@nicholasmuni7995]

I'm glad you threw in fit and finish of the Bolt, a friends two year old Bolt with 20,000 mis. has no paint chips, a small ding in the front from a rock that did not chip the paint.

[@safeandeffectivelol]

@@V10PDTDI Too bad the Bolt has been discontinued. Good luck getting maintenance and repairs done going forward

[@iamoutofideas13]

This is one of the most helpful videos I've watched on the internet in months. Thanks!

[@willieguapo]

Now I get Tesla's business plan. Save $16K in fuel over 100K miles. So you can buy a new $16K dollar battery. Excellent thinking Elon.

[@Andriastravels]

Elon did not think of that. Like everything else, he just fell into a pile of sh and came out like a rose. That is ending though, and soon.

[@TheDiervek]

​@@Andriastravels LOL no it's not. After all I have witnessed in 4 short decades on this planet I'm 99% convinced "there is no spoon"

[@j81851]

And a totally un-explored or researched issue is what is the danger of critical failure or run away as the battery deteriorates over time? And incidentally what is this revelation of 100K battery life? that is NOTHING!!

[@randomtrendz]

There is no win win situation either pay beginning or pay on the end

[@Andriastravels]

@@TheDiervek No one knows for sure. But after my decades I think Musk will soon be history, he digs himself in deeper almost every day. What did you mean "there is no spoon?"

[@rpelleti]

Thank you, Kim Java, for making such interesting and informative videos on Teslas and related topics. I really enjoy watching your videos.

[@ItsKimJava]

Wow, thank you so much for the kind words and the generosity! Means a lot!

[@i_run_far1132]

I feel bad for him but unfortunately a lot of people made this mistake.

[@carlmorgan8452]

Smart people learn from others mistakes

[@socialhostage8534]

It's kind of the risk you take adopting new technology. But those are expensive risks for cars. But Tesla also charges crazy money for just fixing up his battery a bit. I assume by the story. Apple uses the same tactics...

[@elprzemo666]

Mistake? 😂 He just want next tesla. Owning tesla is more important than having profitable work. He work for tesla, he live for tesla heil Musk! 😂

[@taylorsopko5807]

​@gormenfreeman499no car is an investment they depreciate. Ill keep my 84 datsun, its runs eternally.

[@mx9ng]

@@carlmorgan8452*Wise people learn from other peoples’s mistakes*; Smart people learn from their own mistakes, here you go.

[@JPSMASHER80]

Dude’s a warrior. Instead of crying and making himself a victim, he sees the positive of his situation and moves on.

[@stanleybridge]

Ride share drivers may want to consider a battery savings account...120000mi/$9000 7.5 cents per mile. Still cheaper than ICE considering no brake (or little) maintenance, oil changes, air filters or common ICE repairs eg timing belts, exhaust systems, spark plugs, transmission repairs etc. Good information...thank you.

[@Andriastravels]

EV's are hype and financially they are ticking time bombs. And for those who don't care, therapy is recommended.

[@poplaurentiu4148]

Tesla could improve the software system of the vehicle to consume more efficient the energy from the battery .. and make more efficient, dense battery to cope with more frequent fast-charging and slow down the discharge rates of the battery stacks ..

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@poplaurentiu4148 So could GM. Wait and buy the GM car instead.

[@poplaurentiu4148]

@@davidbeppler3032 Sadly i'm on the other side of the ocean in Europe, over here we do have Tesla and have different other smaller types of electrics (Hyundai Kona, ioniq5, kia EV6, Soul & Niro, Renault Zoe, Dacia Spring, Peugeot 208-e, Mitsubishi Outlander plug-in-electric, BMW i3.. etc No GM products sell over here..

[@jaeeboom]

GM? LOL @@davidbeppler3032

[@LifeHack2012]

My neighbour has 310.000km (192.000 miles) on his 2019 Model 3 but he's always charging at home with the occasional supercharge on long trips. Range is still fine, so I guess slow charging really is the "secret".

[@Jessticks2319]

Yes and possibly constant usage is the issue … so much usage daily maybe generating hot spots in the battery causing damage… where someone driving 30-50 miles a trip and then allowing the battery to cool would not see this damage occur. Where he is driving 200-300 miles without much stopping and cooling of the battery . Just a theory

[@sllvll0k318]

It is only a matter of time til sudden death.

[@PoorMansInvesting]

I've seen some gas cars rated for less than 200K make it to 300K. There's always anomalies, best to stick with averages.

[@Camnio1]

Do u know for a fact that its the same battery? They put different batteries into different models (SR/LR/Performance) & MY's.

[@tjhessmon4327]

I’m always leery about proclamations made using “My Neighbor or My Friend”. I think My neighbor said he has 1,999,000 miles on his Tesla, and he frequently flies it to the moon and back on a single charge. I mean if your going for grandiose, go big..

[@michaelbatchelder]

Very nice video. I charge mine to only 80% (with only 4 exceptions) and had mine since 2020. But this guy has put it to the extreme test.

[@joes2514]

Dobson is such a reasonable person. He's very well spoken. He makes good points and doesn't play the victim. Tesla would do well listening to and working with him.

[@ianpobanz12]

He should try LFP module 3 and see how that goes

[@marcusbiller867]

LFPs also degrade

[@FutureSystem738]

@@marcusbiller867Not nearly as much, and they’re good for far more cycles.

[@diytesla]

@@marcusbiller867LFPs degrade much less, few we had with 25-35k miles still charge to 270+ miles at 100%.

[@davidpearn5925]

LFP has a better reputation for mild warm weather use …..safer @100% and more durable. I wouldn’t consider anything that doesn’t have the same qualities.

[@dzone67]

For what it’s worth…Bought LFP Model 3 4 months ago and car charges to 268 miles at 100%…

[@rustyshackleford00]

Perfect timing! I was recently curious how Dobson’s Tesla test, was going. This video answers all the questions I’ve had for years. Has definitely helped with making a decision about a Tesla. Thank you both so much.

[@owar74]

Remember it was with the old batteries on Tesla model 3 the new ones Tesla said are for 1 million miles

[@Goodhello369]

Appreciate this honesty. This is what we all need. Both of you are completely admirable.

[@PrinceAlberts]

Something I’m surprised wasn’t brought up more in the video is supercharging vs regular charging or home charging. Supercharging is very hard on the battery. Regular charging doesn’t heat the battery as much and it doesn’t cause as much wear. The same goes for charging past about 80%.

[@vincentlanzetta3807]

Very true

[@johnarcher4189]

Well stated!! True that.

[@howardkeil1526]

I would think it would use substantially more electricity to charge also due to losses in heat and the fact that it's got to be cooled while heating.

[@BornAgainCarnivore]

Yeah heat lessens the battery's life span.. On a side note, talking about heat.. the EV are not a good idea to have in super hot temperatures or really cold temperatures.

[@PrinceAlberts]

@@BornAgainCarnivore Indeed, there are a lot of people not enjoying that EV life as much this winter. They’re still okay so long as they aren’t driving too far, but nobody is taking their Tesla cross-country in Canada right now.

[@Johnwillbegone]

Dobson is an absolute prince of a man. It would be interesting to see the numbers on a highbrid Camry in the exact same situation.

[@siamimam2109]

The battery inside those usually last 200K+ miles as long as it’s taken care of. Less strain on the battery because it only activates in low speed/idle

[@Jimster481]

Hybrid camry do over 200K without an issue... sometimes 300k or more.

[@gomahklawm4446]

Camrys last very long. Many rich people drive them. Money invested over time wins greatly over buying worthless women drinks in bars.

[@mobisugershot]

@@Jimster481 yes thats because it's battery has less strain and the car is a hybrid, so it also uses an engine and not just a battery, compared to a tesla which uses a battery to power the motor. Just like siamimam2109 said above

[@Jimster481]

​@@mobisugershotyep, which is why it's important because the battery lasts 2-3x longer and costs 1/3 as much to replace.

[@xroda_]

Crazy how there’s older cars with high miles still running

[@MarcioSantos-pp4os]

he didn't knew how to use the car, how to charge the car.

[@robertkubrick3738]

@@MarcioSantos-pp4os SO, You can't just use it like the cheaper Camry he replaced it with? Tesla Fail!

[@lorenzo42p]

the tesla was marketed as being able to use it as a 24/7 taxi and pay for itself. they lie constently.

[@DJAJ101]

@@robertkubrick3738 welcome to trying to explain anything to delusional Tesla owners who will go to the end of the earth to make every excuse under the sun how Tesla's are better than ICE vehicles but their logic can only go so far till their bias stupidity kicks in.

[@bearcubdaycare]

Fear of the battery needing replacement is a thing; multiple people have expressed this to me. It would be worthwhile for Tesla to offer a good solution for this, like an optional extended 200,000 mile warranty, or such.

[@trevorberridge6079]

People fear ghost, goblins and ghouls. Fear is not fact. Batteries will usually outlive the car by some considerable time. Tesla batteries in particular have a stellar reputation and they have now moved to even more stable and long lived chemistries in their new batteries. This seems to be a software issue. Anyone who has spent five seconds on any computer based device knows that software issues are "a thing". A real thing. Teslas update when you're asleep and major issues can be resolved without anyone having to make physical contact with the car or even have it leave your driveway. Sometimes they have to be hands on. It's not the end of the world.

[@mfr5725]

I'd spend $3,000 for a warranty if it got me to 200,000 miles with less than 70% degradation before replacement to guarantee I don't have to spend $10,000 to replace one myself.

[@bdjm8595]

Agreed, whenever I talk about the possibility of EV ownership everyone is afraid they might have to replace the batter down the road!

[@brittanylevinson741]

I’d gladly pay $9k more up front and finance it with the car to have one battery replacement included for the life of the car. This would offset the massive burden of a sudden balloon $9k payment that is not optional.

[@foam27]

Or just raise the price $3k and give the cars a factory 200k warranty.@@mfr5725

[@TheAndreasMustola]

A quick look at how lithium ion batteries degrade after a number of cycles, the curve in the graphs goes down very slowly at first. But then when it hits a certain number of cycles it goes down fast. Like an incubation period when everything seems to be going smoothly until the disease breaks out and everything goes downhill fast. So the degradation is not linear.

[@daviddipasquale5479]

Your friend is such a reasonable gentleman, offering valuable information. If I worked at Tesla, I would recommend a company fund for research, and take cases like this a very frequent use of superchargers and miles

[@efanchien]

LFP pack seems more suitable for this use case than the NCM pack in his 2019 M3. Would be interesting to see if his next car has LFP pack to give it a real world test.

[@Teslacustoms]

Yeah u can’t charge to 100 percent without LFP pack , sucks many tesla owners don’t know this. Also supercharging to 100 percent everyday also is very bad. I started fixing Hi Voltage tesla repairs recently and have learned quite a bit just how damaging it can be.

[@marcusbiller867]

@@Teslacustoms you "can't" charge to 100% an LFP either, both will degrade - first long term results in Europe show a very slightly less degraded LFPs at the same age and mileage. Tesla needs the 100% charge to control the BMS - it is bad for the battery regardless

[@FutureSystem738]

@@marcusbiller867Wrong. LFP NEEDS regular full charge, and LFP is good for far more cycles. I have a friend who’s a Uber driver with LFP in his Model 3, 250k so far and the degradation is minimal.

[@danielsevilla5216]

@@FutureSystem738your friend should make a video. He is driving the more than this guy.

[@kris8263]

@@FutureSystem738 250k km or miles?

[@keithrupp1]

First, I admire Dobson's attitude about this unforeseen $9k expense! I have a 2012 Model S P85 and a 2014 Model S 85, both right around 105k miles. I Supercharge maybe 5% of the time, but I do live in Phoenix, AZ so it is "hot" a large chunk of the year. I usually recharge to 80% at my solar paneled home. My 2014 "Drive Unit Rear" died under warranty, however, it had the side-effect of reducing my max range from 232 to 214. Tesla said I had to "retrain" my battery to get back my range, but after following their recommendations I never did get the range back. My 2012 still gets to about 220 max. I know my Model S battery chemistries are probably different than his Model 3, but I agree with many here it's not the heat and probably not Supercharging, but the number of charge cycles you put the battery through. Eventually we will know the truth, and I'm hoping I don't need a new battery until prices fall as dramatically as Tesla's new car MSRP's have!

[@Jimster481]

The price of batteries will only go up. There is not enough Lithium on the whole planet to make even 40% of the cars they want to make as EV's. Therefore its likely that car prices will start at 50k for small battery cars and midpriced cars will be 100k with high end models being 150-200k. This is the "EV Future" that so many were exited to see. 200k for normal vehicles.

[@OhSoddit]

@@Jimster481It's all Klaus Schwab's wet dream. We will own nothing and he'll be happy.

[@Pilostudio]

@@Jimster481 I am not paying 100K for a car unless i'm making at least 400k/yr. I'll keep rigging ICE engines until i die

[@duramaxadventures5832]

​@@Jimster481plenty of lithium. A insane amount.

[@terranhealer]

@@duramaxadventures5832 just like there is plenty of oil in US shale. It just requires fracking to get it. Lithium mining is a very dirty business 😮

[@TimRHillard]

Most semi truck OTR drivers log at least 100,000 miles per year. Teams can hit 300,000.

[@johnlittle8267]

I think he should have used the Uber program and leased a brand new Tesla and I don't think there is a long term commitment. He could just turn that one in after six months or even one month, and get another one. I would love to have Dobson as my driver, he is so good at communicating, wow. Great video and content!

[@LeverPhile]

Don't leases typically have mileage limits?

[@williamcampbell435]

I have a Tesla with 242,000 Miles and I never had an issue with the battery. I only Charge to 90% and I charge at home most of the time at 30amps. I do have the bigger battery. I use the supercharges from time to time but not normally. I think the smaller battery, charging to 100% and always using the super charger caused this. Tesla does tell you not go over the 90% on the screen and you should only do it for special trips; as stated. I think he learned his lesson and is doing the right thing now. He should invest in a 240V charger home so that he can do most of his charging there; which is also cheaper. I through in $10 to the GoFundme.

[@williamcampbell435]

Also the long range has a warranty to 120,000Miles. If you are buying for Ride Share only buy the long range not the short range and never charge over 90% unless there is a good reason and it is done on occasion.

[@NIAtoolkit]

He mentioned that he charges overnight at 240V and supercharges twice during the day to make that 400 - 500 miles daily

[@kng128]

Right - charging only at home on 240V/32A wouldn’t cut it for a 400-500 miles per day duty cycle. It would be nice if there was a charging level between 6-10kw level 2 at home and 250kw at super chargers.

[@kng128]

If you took out a loan on the car you didn’t own it - you’re borrowing the car from the bank.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

In other words, you've looked after the battery. Low current charging, not charging to "full" frequently (whatever that means!), and avoiding rapid discharging, as well, all modern batteries should last a very, very long time. If you start deviating from those practices, 240,000 miles is very optimistic, I would suggest.

[@mkusa421]

I’m not a ride-share driver. My 2019 Model 3 Long Range has 167,000 miles and I charge batteries to 85% at home 95% of the time, no supercharger. I barely see any degradation and the car drives like new. Maybe that’s the difference? Charging at home! 🤷🏻‍♂️ Great Video guys! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@linusa2996]

In his case he's not going to be able the go home and charge it twice a day between 9am and 8 pm

[@spacecadet1249]

Yes, maybe if Dobson wasn't such a workaholic, and limited himself to one normal charge, daily at home, then when the battery was low, go home for the day, plug in to his wall-charger and chill for the rest of the day. Superchargers are killing his battery.

[@linusa2996]

@@spacecadet1249 300 miles/day is not a workaholic in the taxi/delivery game. I drove 250 to 350/day 5-6 days a week

[@Galileo9.81]

I agree. Home charge also, 2021 M3 LR AB, 63K miles, it was around 353 miles of range at max, but now 345 miles. Still runs fine with no strange noise or lacking performance. Now, I am sorry you ran into this situation, and thank you for bringing this issue to public. However, running high mileage within a very short amount of time can also degrade any ICE also. Plus, Tesla is dominating in EVs, but it's competing with other ICEs,too. So, I wouldn't call this a monopoly. Do you know how many unsatisfied customer cases are pending towards ICEs? This doesn't just apply to Tesla only. Just practice a smart buying with smart planning. I know EVs are pretty new, but I still believe that EVs have more advantages than ICEs as long as you know how to plan before something catastrophic things happen. My recent lead acid 12v battery replacement was one of them. Nothing is permanent nor perfect in this world. Good luck.

[@davidmenasco5743]

​@@spacecadet1249It's not just supercharging. Dobson's case is a very distinct scenario. He was driving 200+ miles, then supercharging to 90% and driving another 200+ miles and then supercharging to 90% again and then driving another 200 miles. Much of this during the warm afternoon / evening hours. His battery was almost certainly reaching and staying at temperatures that are higher than usual. What would be needed for this application would be an upgraded cooling system on the car. This would likely solve the problem completely. But I'm not sure if it could be done without either raising the price for all drivers, or a specialized version of the car for ride share. Unfortunately, I'm guessing that neither of these paths will be appealing to Tesla. But perhaps they will find a way. Solving problems is something they're pretty good at.

[@miroslavstevic2036]

Baterry is a battery, just like smart phone. In the beginning its fine, then every day is weaker and weaker. Rapid charging/discharging will take a toll on most baterries. Gas car don't degrade. You can literally pull out a 1970 era car from a scrapyard, fix it and it will drive long distance. Gas car will never betray you on the road like EV.

[@darrelsmith5929]

This bro is so positive even when something like this happen to him. If everyone use to think like that this World will be a better place, I enjoyed it stay positive 🇹🇹

[@surferdude4487]

It is a fact that super-charging is harder on the battery. It is also a fact that charging a high-nickle battery over 80% will accelerate degradation. For a fellow that wants to super-charge twice per day and charge to 100% overnight, an LFP battery is a much better choice. Having said all that, it's still very strange that the battery went from 170 miles to 35 miles in one day. That sounds like catastrophic failure to me, not degradation. Take that car to Electrified Garage and let them dig into it.

[@jonjonr6]

Rich posted a video about a week ago, answering emails asking about what to do in these situations. His suggestions were both surprising and not surprising. Surprising that he basically said it's trash if it's beyond the Tesla warranty. He did not suggest bringing it to Electrified Garage. He said, either... 1, pay Tesla to install a new battery with a warranty, 2, sell it, even if it's only good for parts 3, if it still has any usable range just drive it as is. Rich gained more of my respect by providing honest answers, and not just using it as a way to advertise his own business.

[@alanmichel613]

Sounds like the car’s software decided to limit charge for some reason.

[@surferdude4487]

In the days of the original Roadster, it was worth the time and money to dig into issues with the battery pack. But batteries have evolved into a consumable item that is recycled and replaced now. All this to say that my suggestion was based on out of date information.@@jonjonr6

[@Xx-Anwar-xX]

its also a fact that it doesnt change the fact that this car is a failure . the battery technology isnt there yet .

[@johndoerr9289]

I have always understood that leaving at 100 is a no go, but leaving it at 90 was only marginally worse than leaving at 80. The tesla app also listed 90% within the daily limit. Boy was I pissed when they stealth changed daily limit to 80. I even remember Elon saying ‘for convenience just do 90’. Dammit.

[@dpcdvrdve]

Batteries usually prefer slower charging and discharging. So drag races and super charging at highest rate/250kv will certainly degrade it way faster.

[@Ayrshore]

My 24 year old Volvo has 331,000 miles and it's fuel tank is still the same size....

[@sheliaurnomischa4632]

😮😮😮

[@Anklespank]

But your HP has decreased SIGNIFICANTLY with that many miles. Go get the thing Dyno tested or Google it

[@chezikmusic]

*Tesla advisor here!* To be clear, the 3’s HV battery is rated for 100k miles/8 years under normal use. Supercharging to 10-90+% 2x daily every day is not normal use, miles aside. That’s most likely what did it in. We see early model 3’s with 200k+ miles with very little degradation. The difference? Supercharging. Supercharging puts FARRR more stress on an EV’s battery than miles alone. DC fast charging of any kind is very hard on HV batteries. This is to be expected. They can be amazing ride share vehicles but keep in mind that they were never designed specifically for this type of use. If you are using one for this purpose you must factor in a shorter life than if it were to be daily driven a typical commute and charged at home. “Sudden death” as it was referred to occurs for many reasons but most commonly because the HV pack has reached a certain level of degradation that is no longer safe to store high levels of charge. Your pack is most likely still able to hold 60-70% of its capacity, it’s being software limited. Yes this can be sudden. This is on purpose. In many cases, service centers can service the affected modules instead of replacing the entire pack. Still expensive but a lot less than $12-15k for a new pack. This is rare, Even for our legacy cars. What you’re doing for Dobson is amazing. It is fascinating to hear people’s stories, love the videos!! I hope my insight answers some questions, these are the conversations that need to be had!

[@DarthDeth]

^

[@atlaspath5803]

Good to know but other people experience here in the comments have a 10% reduction in the first 12 months already and purchased the car new - we better batteries and cheap replacement costs for this to work.

[@atlaspath5803]

Hi also Tesla has dropped Model S and X and left Australia why? Are there issues with high heat levels and batteries?

[@chezikmusic]

@@atlaspath5803 Model S and X variants are temporarily unavailable in a few markets including Australia and UK in order to prioritize Model 3 and Y production! Climate is unrelated.

[@atlaspath5803]

I also saw a article stating that since the Cyber truck and Roadster models where the focus now the Model S and X where stopped in other markets. Am I correct that there is supply chain issue around the battery production since Tesla can not supply all markets? @@chezikmusic

[@macharlem]

I contributed to the go fund because as a TSLA shareholder I am Tesla. Thanks for being a test case. If the go fund covers the cost please drive the model 3 all the time and keep testing the situation. Pretty sure your hard work will always payoff. Think of the pollution that you are saving us all from. Hard work always pays. We can do it, Ellon doesn’t have to do everything. We got this , keep pushing 🙏

[@leaphardotnet]

Are you masochistic?

[@AhmetMurati]

I have been investing in TSLA too

[@phenry5083]

The Camry is so much more well defined, better built, more reliable, and has higher resell.

[@michaellopez6830]

would have cost him too much money, it's why he went full EV

[@JacanaProductions]

How can fast charging at a Tesla supercharger be that much cheaper than gas, sure at home at 12c / kWh but Tesla charger 30c right?

[@lorenzo42p]

it's not cheaper, it's lies. I remember a time they claimed charging would be free.

[@JamrockNoble]

It is cheaper. Roughly around 55 percent of filling a tank of gas. I recently traded in my mazda3 turbo for a model y. I did buy premium gas to get the additional horse power that the engine is tuned for with premium but to fill my tank it was roughly 50 dollars. To super charge to 80 percent from 5% is 22 dollars and change. For context I live in MA

[@HollywoodJBlaq]

I wonder if Tesla's deal with Hertz and Uber is really a super-experiment in battery longevity? They can gather enough data from drivers to find out how long these vehicles can last under various conditions in the shortest amount of time.

[@TroySavary]

Probably why Hertz has massively scaled back their Tesla purchase.

[@hotshot8365]

Looks like Hertz is dumping 20,000 EVs from its fleet, so I guess the outcome from that trial was not good.

[@TroySavary]

@@hotshot8365 Their mistake was so heavily skewing their EV purchases toward Teslas, which have well known reliability problems. Hertz said they were losing money on Tesla cars due to high repair costs, and frequent downtime. Then they were hit by the massive depreciation when they sold.

[@detraed8962]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Cause I am thinking if they are using them for robotaxi fleets they have to have better batteries.

[@wytreeey3645]

I learnt my lesson about the lifespan of these batteries with my expensive battery powered lawn mower. My personal experience changed my mind about considering purchasing an EV. My other big concern is data privacy with these modern cars.

[@wytreeey3645]

*modern cars in general, not just EVs

[@Corleone_Napoleone]

I learned my lesson just by owning a I Phone.😂😂😂😂 Didn’t even go as far as a lawnmower. Perhaps you could have purchased Ryobi drill. Cheaper way to learn. Electric cars simply won’t work.

[@dudend22]

smart = surveillance monitoring Analysis & reporting Technology

[@dudend22]

they want insurance companies monitoring how many passengers go in your car, how safe you drive, miles you drive and adjust your insurance prices in real time

[@dudend22]

thats why the gov is pushing electric vehicles so hard, tesla has recorded people in the cars doing all kinds of things even having relations

[@Janez-h1e]

My 2014 S is @ 300.000+ miles. One battery repair/regeneration ($4500 @260.000) and one motor rebuilt ($1300 preventive service). Still on 90%+ range. Aren't there any independent Tesla repair shops in your area??

[@Ni5ei]

Tesla should give this man a new battery and thank him for the test results.

[@TheJesanchof]

Regardless he drove 120k miles in one year, it's not uncommon to see 2-3 year old cars with such mileage, so definitively something to take in count when thinking in any electric car

[@andregoncalves5100]

Fast charging 2/3 charges is an extreme use case as well

[@TheJesanchof]

Exactly, also how frequent the use was, not the same 2/3 in a 5 year period as in just 1 year. Must people won't use that much the superchargers, even some people won't use them at all. But some people as this guy will need that much juice on a daily basis so might not be the best option for everyone@@andregoncalves5100

[@TroySavary]

​@@andregoncalves5100Elon was the one who claimed it would be a robotaxi. Now using like a taxi is "extreme"?

[@andregoncalves5100]

@@TroySavary Fast charging 2/3 times everyday is a extreme use case, not something a average user will do. I don't know if he said it would be a taxi or not, and frankly I don't care. 120k miles in pretty much the worst case scenario isn't the same as 120k miles.

[@FrostbitexP]

​@@andregoncalves5100 Elon did say you can use your Teslas as Robo Taxis when youre not using the car when self driving is "finished" (which he claimed it would be a few years ago). It was a major sales pitch and im sure many bought their cars on that idea and said Teslas are investments that will soon me able to make 30k a year. Its just highlighting Elons ridiculous claims he makes to get people to spend money is all. Its borderline illegal.

[@virtual-viking]

The current Standard Range (yes the cheapest one) with the LFP batteries is recommended to be charged to 100% and is expected to last 3× more charge cycles. So maybe get a newer standard range. But even factoring in a battery replacement is still cheaper than all the fuel that was saved in over 100.000 miles.

[@bones23jones]

That's the one I have. I'm putting 60,000 on it this first year. Hopefully it lasts longer than the other battery configurations.

[@snookmeister55]

He owes 40k and buying a new standard range isn't an option for him.

[@virtual-viking]

@@snookmeister55 $39.000 - $7.500 (tax incentive) = $31.500. Meanwhile, that Toyota Camry swallows at least $15.000 worth of gas every year doing over 120.000 miles. As I see it, he can't afford *not* driving the Tesla.

[@snookmeister55]

@@virtual-viking Right but he can't afford another Tesla owing 40k.

[@virtual-viking]

@@snookmeister55 He just needs the down payment on that $31.500, and then he's more than paying the rest with fuel savings on a monthly basis. Don't tell me can't find 10 or 20% of $31.500.

[@TechScottBrown]

One item I'd like to surface is that a lot of folks I chat with at a Tesla Supercharger are NOT navigating to the supercharger through the on-board nav system. What happens in this case is that there is no thermal battery preconditioning taking place prior to charging.

[@michaelandrew83]

That just makes it longer to heat up the computer will take care of that preconditioning just saves your time

[@slivkask8329]

Dear Kim Java and Dobson. Thank you very much for your honesty and integrity. It is very rare in the online world. You both have my respect!.👍

[@ianstorm45]

This video means whole lot to me because I was actually in the market for a new car and was about to switch to electric but after watching this video it have me to think twice” I put 82miles per day x5, this comes out to 21,320 miles per year x5 it’s 106,600 miles 😢 so basically in 5 to 6 years I would need Faulk up over 10k$ to replace the battery.

[@geraldh.8047]

Charge slow, live long (and prosper).

[@bluecollarbeat3156]

Does someone have real world data comparing life expectancy of remanufactured batteries and new batteries?

[@geraldh.8047]

@@bluecollarbeat3156 there is no fixed definition of what "remanufactured" would mean so there is nothing solid you could actually compare.

[@w5glw5gl]

You have a very different situation. You can put 100 miles in your car overnight at home.

[@Boom38119]

By that time the cost will be a third of what it is now.

[@JohanEinevik]

My guess is that this wouldn't have happened if he had a long range and charged to 80% instead.

[@aaronbounds1336]

Same. I just started doing Uber with my ‘23 M Y LR. It’s great. I drive on weekends/in my spare time. 200 miles per 7-8 hours rideshare time, about 235 Wh/mile average. I do the vast majority of my recharging at home with L2 overnight. Still getting 309 miles for a 100% charge, 279 for 80%.

[@pauld3327]

I think LFP would be better than Long Range for his use case

[@ryang3564]

I love that he is still "oh it saved me in gas cost" as he is sitting with a dead Tesla he still owed 40k on and is out another 9k for new battery

[@troy510]

Plus the cost of having to own a gas vehicle anyways when the Tesla doesn't work. Yeah the amount of copium of these people is hilarious!🤣

[@tjhessmon4327]

That is not the price of a New battery he was quoted, it’s the price of a Rebuilt battery, which only lasts 40k to 60k miles. He will no doubt be back next yerr with his continued sob story. Only this time he will be working on his third battery replacement.

[@Notoftheworld327]

And makes out it costs nothing to charge it twice a day on super charge

[@Jojo-o6o6w]

if i was a full time uber driver the last thing id be doing is using an EV... for most everyone else on the planet (who can charge at home) Ev's make total sense.

[@rogerwilco1777]

Him not knowing how to charge the car was the main problem.. he was doing the gas equivalent of pegging the tach everywhere he went and wondering why his engine was blowing every 10k miles.. mechanics love these types of people. Theres a reason the real rideshare people mostly use Prius's and other cheap Hybrids. Almost zero maintenance and you can go more than 200miles without wasting an hour to 'fill up'. Tesla's and other EV's are currently too expensive and unreliable for this kind of work.

[@menace3115]

Really smart honest guy, good luck my man.

[@yichaohan6317]

Wow, a refurbished battery with 60% capacity for $9000 and only one year warranty.

[@gjc9801]

Tesla should come out with an extended warranty for commercial use maybe $100.00 bucks a month for total coverage of battery

[@johnhermann762]

How would you feel if you found out that they didn't actually replace your battery, but set a software switch to re-enable the existing battery and charged you $9000 for that service?

[@petertraveller6421]

That's why you should take the car to independent shop like Rich Rebuilds have, to get more honest service.

[@MrDerekRobinson]

Very possible. And for $9000 for something so capable but with only a 1 year warranty is junk. That's coming from a tesla owner.

[@youthinkyouknow343]

I agree. Also, car warranties should be given mostly in miles. One year for a $9000 car battery on time alone is too short of a time. @@MrDerekRobinson

[@greymanBB]

That’s why you should buy a car with an internal combustion engine

[@jonjonr6]

Not going to happen. If it was like that, Rich would tell you. But Rich's video last week tells us all we need to know. If it were that simple, Rich wouldn't be telling people to either just drive it with reduced range, sell it, or pay Tesla for a new battery.

[@RandvanszkyEniko1986]

I'm from Europe and I never understood why US people is buying EVs. Checked your gas price, at 3$ a gallon you can drive 100000 miles in an average 25 miles/gallon car in the US for about 12000$. For same mileage a refurbished battery cost you 9000$, and that will have less warranty. It's amazing how Musk twisted American's minds.

[@chezikmusic]

Getting a Tesla was the best financial decision of my life. Had 3 at this point and have absolutely loved every single one.

[@cp4512]

Very sensible to go through them quickly and sell whilst still in warranty 👍

[@chezikmusic]

Definitely not my experience! They can we wonderful vehicles, even past their warranty periods.

[@cp4512]

@@chezikmusic how many years did you keep each of yours for? I thought the Model S only came out in 2012. Have you kept them longer than 8 years/100,000 miles?

[@diflyboy9063]

The best financial decision of your life was buying a car? Yikes.

[@chezikmusic]

@@diflyboy9063 Not having a car wasn’t an option unfortunately. I’ve saved thousands owing teslas over comparable vehicles.

[@robcossin4690]

Dobson's stress test actually supported the warranty period. I doubt the homebase sent a failure signal to return for replacement, more likely that last SC did it in for some unknown reason. Taking care of our batteries is like getting your oil changed in the past, take care of it and it will last longer, beat on it, and failure is inevitable.

[@JeanPierreWhite]

I agree that Tesla didn't wake up one morning and purposefully limit his battery. However I believe there is code in the BMS that will nerf a battery when certain conditions occur in the battery itself. Apple did this and got into trouble for it. Tesla will have to lookout.

[@sirifail4499]

If it’s only “safe” to use the battery 30%-80%, they definitely should cut their range claims in half. Consider if the same scenario happened in any ICE. “Don’t ever let the tank go below 30% and never fill it more than 80%”.

[@JeanPierreWhite]

@@sirifail4499 The recommendation to keep the battery in its sweet spot is to optimize its life and avoid accelerated degradation. That's not what happened here. Range reduced very rapidly, almost overnight. Something broke inside the battery pack. We'll never know what but it is clear there was a catastrophic failure, not just quicker degradation. It is concerning Tesla are not willing to provide goodwill repairs in unusual scenarios like these.

[@biggerthanhiphop7641]

​@@JeanPierreWhitetesla is a very selfish company.. I'm tired of dealing with them

[@HipHopBeatSource]

A mechanic I know recently got a 94 Toyota corolla for $300 and put a $250 junkyard motor in it and has had no problems with it. It's got over 300k miles with the original A/T. Will the barrier for entry ever be this simple for EV's?

[@Jojo-o6o6w]

lol ya ok.. because most people thinking about the barrier to entry will think buying a $300 junker and swapping out the motor THEMSELVES is an option LOL!

[@warntheidiotmasses7114]

​@user-xj5xp6qz5g well you want to save the planet don't you? Or do you want to pollute the earth with batteries every few years?

[@hyceman]

Who wants to drive a 94 Corolla.

[@robertkubrick3738]

@@hyceman The guy pushing a corvette.

[@jaime21121]

I've owned Hondas from 80s with the PGMFI system and did just as much mpgs as a hybrid car nowadays!!! But no one cared about mpgs

[@MQT-]

The time it took to find a charging station and waiting.... did he calculate the $ loss there ?

[@Saculmit]

I've seen a few rideshare KZbinrs mention that they take some of the money they're saving over using an ICE vehicle and put it into a battery replacement savings.

[@robertkubrick3738]

Good plan. What do they do about the DEPRECIATION?

[@gruivis]

One more thought - every device or system has a duty cycle. It could be that timeshare creates a duty cycle that exceeds the current design. Reduce the duty cycle by half and it might last 3x as long.

[@bkanegson]

Couple model years after 2019, standard range 3 went to LFP chemistry. Less energy dense but can be charged to 100% constantly, and drained very low, with no damage. Possibly better for industrial taxi type application. Maybe why Tesla asks the customer about intended purpose, to help choose battery chemistry. (Standard range 3 is now LFP but extended range is NMC.) Unfortunate he did not get one with LFP..

[@tjhessmon4327]

What this guy is not telling you is that in 120k miles, he has replaced his tires 5 or 6 times for some 5k to 7k in further expense. Further he is looking at major suspension items that need service, or replacement (struts, ball joints, A arm bushings, tie rod ends, inner and outer tie rods etc.). EVs are very heavy (weigh as much as a truck) and that means more wear on suspension components.

[@ericmaclaurin8525]

Owning a business might be too complicated for you.

[@pietersteenkamp5241]

Herz said their evs had half the maintenace cost.

[@dk-bw4gk]

@@pietersteenkamp5241 And then they stopped using EVs altogether because the maintenance was much more expensive than a gas car.

[@pietersteenkamp5241]

@@dk-bw4gk As i just told you the last thing i heard from reporting on that is that the maintenance cost was half of the ice cars in ( i believe) the same price range. I don't think the herz decisions had anything to do maintenance so unless you want to provide a source for them saying as much i will go on believing it was something else like charging or depreciation fears.

[@dk-bw4gk]

@@pietersteenkamp5241 Can't provide any sources on YT but it's easily found. They stopped using EVs because of maintenance costs and the cost of repairs (fender benders). Yes, depreciation was also a reason.

[@jacksonbangs6603]

This guy is a pioneer in the electric vehicle car share industry. His knowledge and experience is very valuable for the future of electric vehicles.

[@xraylife]

Memo: EV's have no future - its the 4th time they've failed in the market.

[@jacksonbangs6603]

Please list your REAL sources of information to back up your claim that electric vehicles won't last! Your source again has to be from a real and unbiased source!

[@EzequielAdames]

2018 M3 LR RWD, 260,182 mi. original motor, HV Bat. and Brakes. Range New 310Mi, now 247mi. Battery @20% Degradation. Charged mostly to 90% with 3rd gen 48amps wallcharger.

[@bikeman7982]

That’s awesome. I have the same car but only 70k miles with 8% degradation. I think there is an initial steep degradation which slows down after.

[@mueckenhoeffer]

I enjoyed the calm way in which you both addressed this issue. To better understand the issue, one must understand a bit about these batteries. First of all, the Tesla or any other electric vehicle does not use A battery, rather many packs of small batteries. When an issue develops with a pack, that pack can be electronically isolated from the car's system. This is where the great reduction in range comes from. One could have a few bad batteries in different packs which may take these entire packs offline.

[@CoryEbeling-r4c]

In a lot of places supercharging is more expensive than a tank of gas.😂

[@outcast6187]

The main problem is NOTHING is more damaging than super-charging. Charge at home and charge it slowly, if you want the battery to last.. Supercharging is kind of shocking that it is allowed.

[@tomn.9987]

@@outcast6187 That is not really true. What damages the battery is heat that comes with charging fast. But EVs have battery conditioning, it keeps the battery pretty much at a set temperature so supercharging does not do any meaningful damage. There are real issues, supercharging is not one of them.

[@russmartin4189]

Really!

[@Shantanano]

You can precondition the battery before you arrive at The Charging Station. It actually gets it ready for the Fast Charger.

[@jimmynguyen2720]

They need to use this case study for their future Robotaxi service. If that ever happens.

[@jamesm5673]

I like this guy. Very straight forward and says what most videos dont cover. I got a 2022 LR and picked it up back in June 2022 and the second I got it I drove from Huston, OKC, Phoenix, LA, FL, NY and I started to do ride share around November of 2022. I racked at this moment, around 47000 on it (haven't changed the tires yet btw but its definitely due in the next 3000 miles or so.) There were few little things that had to be repaired but all under warranty. Im 50/50 on buying their extended warranty since I am doing ride share more so that feed back would be great. So, at 90% charge I get around 300 miles of charge(depending on weather or whatever.) I now charge most of the time at home with the dryer plug/adapter most of the time either 70 or 85%. If I do long distance I do 98%. I dont know if thats a good thing since it was bought new and it was around 350ish. Just to get this out the way zero problem driving long distance. The super chargers are everywhere and its all calculated in Nav. prob just takes 15% longer vs combustion and yes, the standard autopilot is absolutely PIVITOL for those rides. Does anyone else have any newer Tesla 2021+ and racked up high miles in a short time?

[@seths6069]

Good luck getting an extended warranty while using the vehicle for business. Your battery and car being newer and more advanced should not have supercharger issues. Nothing in Teslas warranty say anything about the use of superchargers will reduce the life of your battery.

[@jamesm5673]

How would they know I use it for business?

[@mathewwilson2286]

Truly enjoyed the video and the back and forth of you 2 was great. Good humour, respect and knowledge.

[@user-cs7he5zb9i]

I’m a construction worker and use lithium ion batteries in my tools all the time I know this is not a comparison to your car but what you’re saying about your car is exactly what happens in your tool batteries it’ll work about half of what it usually is and then you’ll go to charge it again and it’s over with it’s how those batteries work

[@armouredtrend7404]

You can get a bit more time out out of that battery by attaching another charged battery to the battery for a small amount of time (to get it to a voltage that the charger will then charge the old battery, as the charger does not charge if the battery voltage drops below a certain voltage

[@jadyynstarlight9851]

If there is only a one year warranty on the new battery, I think they are only expecting you to drive ~10K miles before it dies again.

[@dudend22]

i don’t think they even replaced the battery they probably just removed the 35 mile throttle and he’s getting 170 mile range just like before 😅

[@pietersteenkamp5241]

This is what happens when you have 5 year old cars repaired. The battery will be fine but a ev isnt just a battery

[@pietersteenkamp5241]

​@@dudend22so epic fraud? I hope you are also dumb enough to short tesla.

[@laikanbarth]

@@dudend22Yep, that’s what I was thinking.

[@MrCg006]

Now that there are so many Teslas out there, we definitely need more attention around the pricing and warranty coverage for battery replacement. 1Year for a 9k refurb is abysmal. Did tesla even provide how many miles in that year it is covered for?

[@heartrem2]

Agreed

[@aeronautauto]

I am keen to see how a LFP batteries are going to perform with heavy usage.

[@Southbeachsunrise]

I have Model 3 RWD LFP 2022 now at 94k miles. Fully charged today is 263miles. 🫡❤

[@lsd22252]

Yeah LFP would be a different story because they should be always charged to 100% and that would be perfect for high usage because he's leaving home with a 100% charge rather than the recommended ~80% for non-LFP batteries.

[@Jimster481]

@@lsd22252100% Charge takes 3-5x longer than 80% when using superchargers. Since the last 20% cannot be put in at anywhere near the speed of the first 80%.

[@cyumadbrosummit3534]

The intense heat from supercharging mostly occurs in the bottom half of the charge curve when (depending on the model) it's accepting 200-250 kWh. The last 25% is ramped all the way down to 25kWh.

[@michaellopez6830]

That's what I'm thinking, he could be charging it some days more than twice. And if he's pushing it to 7 days a week doing uber. All the heat must have took it's toll. Because I know a few people who can only supercharge and have way more miles, but they're not doing ridesharing so the batteries get a break.

[@Dubitz]

I wonder if he had gotten a Model 3 with LFP batteries if they would have performed better over time. They say LFP has a longer cycle life, at the cost of them being less energy dense. He's basically pioneering the way for Tesla/EVs by collecting real-world data. Unfortunate this happened. I wonder if it's possible to swap to a LFP battery pack or if the physical pack dimensions are a slightly different size.

[@VeganRod]

LFP only has the 100,000 mile warranty, not 120,000 like other Tesla batteries.

[@Techridr]

Yeah I think LFP would really benefit someone that Supercharges all the time and also cycles so many times. I'm selling my 2023 LFP to my brother who Ubers as soon as the Highland comes out. We're both on board with LFP. My new "highland" will for sure be the LFP version. But to answer your curiosity, no, you can't swap out an LFP. Charger is different, even the low voltage system is 16v vs 12v. Nothing would work even if the pack could be changed. Cheaper to sell and get another car.

[@williamcampbell435]

I do think the LFP batteries are better. I have a friend in Canada that uses them in the Canadian car and they always charge to 100% and with no issues. That is the future but not yet available in the USA.

[@Dubitz]

@@williamcampbell435 I’ve had my LFP Model 3 since 2021 and it’s been nothing but a work horse (I live near NYC). Have just about 50,000 miles so far though, nothing near what this guy in the video was driving lol

[@marcusbiller867]

@@Techridr haha, no, LFP is bad for supercharging and 100% charge too

[@Khanfuzed1]

I remember these being sold as 24/7 taxis and it cant even handle two charges a day?

[@lorenzo42p]

"welcome to the family, give us more money. btw we lie."

[@fullboostturbo1]

IMO the slower you charge a battery the longer it will last with less degradation. I also believe that with Lithium batteries that not going under 25-30% charge and not charging higher than 75-80% charge will also have great impact on life and degradation of batteries. I am still using makita 18volt batteries that are 10 years old with hardly any degradation at all.