What Your Homemade TCG CAN'T Do | Talk TCG

[@DreadgateTCG]

If you play your game enough you'll start to notice things that need to be limited.

[@claytonyoung1351]

Finally did my first play test of my htcg. Far exceeded my expectations and can't wait to get my tcg finished and excited yo keep working on a truly unique tcg.

[@ShardTCG]

That's it! Just keep working on it and always strive to learn and test new things for your game.

[@Will_Forge]

2:35 You know what's funny? My Magic deck with 300+ cards in it may not look efficient, but the way I built it beats everyone else I know more than 70% of the time. You'd think that pairing it down could improve these numbers, but nope! I've done that. Got it down to 100 cards once, and that didn't change its efficacy at all, or else it made it worse. Hard to say how much worse or if it was just a bit of bad luck. A massive deck is actually not as big of a deal if you always have something to play when you draw, and if you have dozens of intertwined and co-operative tactics within. In my deck's case it's an Artifact deck I started back when the very first Tezzeret deck came out, and it has only improved since. Always hovering around that 300 card count and always winning. As a reminder, that initial Tezzeret turns every artifact you have on the field into a 5/5 artifact creature for a turn. That's my least common win condition, but it does come up every now and then. Most of the time I Magister Sphinx them down to 10 health, and keep bouncing him into my hand and back out with my Master Transmuters to keep my health no lower than 10 and theirs no higher. Meanwhile the clock is ticking before I get an Inkwell Leviathan onto the battlefield or an my one artifact I don't remember the name of at the moment that makes everyone draw 2 extra cards in their draw step. Then I'm going through my deck and getting Reliquary Towers and all sorts of things that make my hand endless while you're discarding every turn, and it really is just a terrible grinding machine like a wood chipper wrecking any deck I put it against. Always reacting in ways that thwart and then returning fire. I even have cards that are more effective with more artifacts in my discard pile, so the more my junkyard grows the stronger the living machines become. I swap decks with my friends and with my wife from time to time, and it really is a terror to face if they know that they're doing. It usually takes them losing once and then they're just as scary using that thing. It's weird and fucked up, and I love it. 😆

[@allovertheworld5048]

I think you are confused, in Yugioh the resource system is to use weak monsters to summon more powerful monsters. Tribute summoning is just one of the many ways to summon stronger monsters.

[@vonakakkola]

that's the point on that "at least that's how it supposed to work", tribute summon should be the main way to bring powerful monsters on the field, because it's so slow, it let the game to not finish too early and to avoid that the first player could easily obliterate the second that's one of the reasons on why modern yu gi oh is a bad game

[@allovertheworld5048]

@@vonakakkola you forgot the ritual and fusion monsters and by the way yugioh has always been a heavy combo fast game and the ultra consistent ftk exodia tier 0 deck that was used in 1999 proves it

[@CeterisMakesMusic]

build limits are also good. like having an indicator that specifies how many of a given card are allowed to be in a deck.

[@ShardTCG]

So true. I kinda glossed over that when discussing deck limits at the start. But yes! Very important. Thanks.

[@EnemyToad]

You mean I can’t fill my deck with Pot of Greed and Lightning Bolt?

[@dudono1744]

This is usually a thing that isn't on the card but on a banlist.

[@Ashebrethafe]

@@EnemyToadI think I’ve read that someone did almost exactly this in MtG, back when it had a minimum deck size of 40 cards and no build limit - their deck consisted of 19 Black Lotuses, 19 Ancestral Recalls, and two Fireballs.

[@PsycheWard_Games]

You could do a video strictly on how to determine specific card amount restrictions and how that relates to deck size showing examples. Yes, a more intellectual dive, but needed. I see some card games and wonder "Why that deck size?" Loved the bit about once per turn, thanks!

[@ShardTCG]

It triggers my interest now that I've thought about it.

[@0penthaughtz]

This is why making multiple decks comes in handy.

[@DragonsTCG]

If only this video came out before i made my game 😅

[@ShardTCG]

Oh no 😅 Was there a specific category that you would have done differently if you had?

[@DragonsTCG]

​@@ShardTCGSpecifically I would say my game's resource system. I kinda just started doing things, and it has evolved over time to be not bad, but probably better if I more deeply thought about it before development.

[@michaelturner2806]

Really liking this series! I got the LCG design itch, and while I haven't done much concrete yet, it's fun to deep dive into game design.

[@ShardTCG]

The beginning is always very exciting because it is the stage of design with the most possibilities.

[@travisbuschette8609]

It's nice to see you give examples with Digimon! This current version of the game does so many things well from a design perspective that I think a lot of people can learn from for their own games.

[@ShardTCG]

Thanks. I know other card games use these mechanics as well, but what is great about games like Digimon and One Piece is that they highlight "once per turn." This is great for scanning cards for information faster. I love it!

[@travisbuschette8609]

@@ShardTCG I really like how they highlight their keywords and things, where the colors help distinguish effects. Red is for abilities (Draw 1, Blocker), blue is for triggers (On Play, When Attacking), and that purplish color is for any restrictions (Once per turn, Hand). It's so simple, yet so effective!

[@TY3_MUSIC]

For my game ta n tcg I put a cost on things like that or it's a 1 use called a now move which is like a trap effect usually for dealing sneak attacks

[@TY3_MUSIC]

Ima be making an official rule book soon to polish some things

[@William-Webb]

Is there such a thing as a cooperative TCG? Do you have any examples? If not, how would you go about designing one & how would it work?

[@ShardTCG]

I have a plan for a co-op TCG where you fight a boss deck that is automated. This is done by removing your resource system and hand from the boss deck. The boss will auto play whatever is drawn from the boss deck.

[@danielcarrasco5251]

This is the only time I have enjoyed someone asking for a like. It's the single most annoying thing about watching KZbin. Well done sir

[@ShardTCG]

I'm relieved you think so. Thanks!

[@dudono1744]

Card Types should be a thing if they functionnaly are different, for example creatures have stats that could be manipulated by effects. Subtypes however should be a thing to create diverse strategies. 6:00 Power progression is optional, but if you ignore it, you must have systems to prevent turn 1 wins, such as being able to use cards in your hand during your opponent's first turn. 7:19 Don't slam once per turn on everything under the sun. Yugioh has a card that has a once per turn effect that discards your entire hand (for no effect).

[@viktor1504]

Video on tabel top stimulator?? :)

[@nejcftv3792]

Hey, sid you make artworks for your tcg yourself?

[@ShardTCG]

Yes I do 😉

[@OscarBrewer]

The ideal Yugioh deck is the 5 pieces of Exodia and 35 Pot of Greed.

[@rksummers5151]

Honey why you gotta refer to the likes as "hard [and] throbbing"? 😂

[@ShardTCG]

I'm just making sure people are paying attention.

[@NoOnesBCE]

Deck size and card limits seems like a function of design rather than a pillar.

[@RichMerry]

Yo, this is the perfect synergy of North East accent, Card game content well edited videos. Instant subscribe.

[@ShardTCG]

Hahaha, I don't think I get too many subs for my accent, so thank you.

[@JamesJP]

RESTRICTIONS!

[@CeterisMakesMusic]

leave infinity alone. just balance it

[@raysandrarexxia941]

I think there should be more solutions mentioned per problem, maybe 2 or 3 each?

[@ShardTCG]

I'll keep that in mind for the future, thanks.

[@yurisei6732]

I think this video is kind of taking for granted the word "restriction". What makes a deck minimum size a "restriction", rather than a "requirement", or even just "how the game works"? If minimum size isn't a restriction, then what makes maximum size a restriction, bearing in mind that in the absence of archetypes like lawnmowing, adding too many cards is just lowering consistency for no reason and no one will do it? And I don't think anyone has ever considered MTG's colour system a "restriction". And who says a game needs "power progression" via restriction? Yugioh doesn't have it, yugioh has never had it, and it's fun enough that it was able to become one of the big three. Yugioh handles power dynamics through set-up, rather than inherent restriction: there's nothing stopping you from winning on turn 1 except that it usually takes multiple turns to assemble the pieces necessary to win. Pokemon also takes a very different approach to progression - there's no difference between turn 1 and turn 10 in which cards you can play, and in fact your first turn will often be your strongest turn, but in most cases you can only kill 1 pokemon per turn, so it's going to take you at least 3 turns to translate powerful plays into taking 6 prize cards, and you lose resources when your pokemon dies, creating a wavering tempo. And FYI, Digimon's "once per turn" is literally just taken directly from Yugioh, which was doing that from the beginning. The only restriction I see in this video is the assumption that all card games must be MTG. Less facetiously, this is an attitude I have a big problem with, that I'm seeing in a lot of the TCGs that have spawned out of this post-covid era. So many games are designed in this heavily restrictive manner that makes it hard to find inspiration to play them. It often feels like the designers want to build your deck for you, with specifications like only being able to have one faction, and then having to have exactly 4 field spells, and exactly 8 interrupt trigger cards, and exactly 16/12/8 level 1/2/3 creatures. And then you play the deck the game built for you and it's the same story - you can only play one card per turn, or you can only make one attack per turn, or you can only play one type of card out of a three-type deck per turn. Then there's probably limited direct interaction too, maybe you can only interact via battling, or there's no combat system at all so unless both players specifically add removal spells it's just competitive solitaire. So many games seem so terrified of making mistakes that they shut down any opportunity to do so, but the consequence of doing so is shutting down any opportunity to gain an audience beyond people who like the licensed IP (eg Lorcana) or are enamoured by the superficial novelty (eg Achroma, Keyforge).

[@dudono1744]

Wait, new TCGs don't let you build meme/weird decks ? You should always be able to *try* meme decks, even if they're barely functional. I mean, MTG has decks like "manaless dredge" and "oops! all spells" and Yugioh has seen some "monster mash" decks and stuff like "Laval Quasar turbo".

[@ShardTCG]

I focus on the word "restriction" for a specific reason. By using the word restriction instead of simply "rule," you begin to look at game design differently. The word "rule" told me what I can and can't do when "restriction" told me you can't do that because of a specific reason. That specific reason is what inspired this video. You are restricted from starting with fewer cards because you can create a deck with less randomness, and a certain level of randomness is required to play certain games. In yugioh, you can't summon an 8 star monster without the initial set up first. The game does restrict you because that is how you reward yourself for good gameplay. I could have just said, "These rules need to be put in place," but then I am not making people view game design any differently from anyone else who would advise them.

[@paultapping9510]

"just how the game works"? did you really just suggest using such a ludicrously imprecise term over a perfectly valid and widely-used term in game design like 'restriction'? This whole comment is ridiculous. Booooooo.

[@ShardTCG]

I think you missed the point. Sorry if I haven't explained myself correctly.

[@yurisei6732]

@@ShardTCG Maybe that would be a good thing though, if the advice you feel people are missing from other people is advice that seems to lead them to making boring games.