What YouTubers Aren’t Telling You About Citizen’s New “Grand Seiko Killer” - Zenshin Forza Review

[@heiner71]

Why is on youtube every watch a "killer" of another watch. I am sure there is enough room for many watches to co-exist. I hate that stupid term.

[@matgreen8605]

All about viewing figures. I would guess the "killers" strap line will do better than a "lovely dial" strap line

[@FT__Cool_Stuff______-of5pi]

Reminds me of the ol' "This is like xyz on steroids!"

[@GeorgeLow-e8x]

Amen brother.

[@mersmithy1269]

Every watch is a Shark, obviously.

[@Horus175]

When one watch is being compared in the same breath to another that costs 10x as much, I can sorta see why they're calling it that. Why would you buy that other, more expensive watch?

[@VedavyasMunugoor]

I think you're my favorite watch reviewer on this site. Sometimes it feels a bit like watch KZbinrs all watch each others videos and end up having the same opinion. Your channel doesn't and that's the best compliment I can give.

[@LivLiviley]

Ben, Watch Yourself Jorge and Britt Pearce are my GOATS of reviewers

[@kyledriscollmusic]

Ben's the watch reviewer we needed, not the one we deserve

[@luppino1965]

Well done, Ben, for pointing out about super titanium. Citizen should not get away with misleading their customer. When you rightly say they have some great watches! Love your honesty. I like the in the loupe channel.

[@maybekwasi]

This is one of the most honest reviews I have seen on KZbin. I’ve always been skeptical about the whole “Super Titanium” branding and I have never been won over by that. I have come to realize that most KZbinrs “review” watches just for the revenue. Either from the mobetization or promotional revenue they review. It’s the same across all genres on KZbin. Well done Ben. Keep being honest to yourself.

[@Alan-lv9rw]

I have about 15 watches, all under the $500-$600 range. I’m not loyal to one brand. They’re 1/3 Seiko, 1/3 Citizen, and 1/3 Casio. I love all of them.

[@maxp5422]

But your loyal to Japan lol

[@razer6909]

@@maxp5422 or maybe loyal to the best offer for the money

[@LDP]

​@@maxp5422dude your comment is brutal 😂

[@StrangersIteDomum]

How did you get so many watches for only 600$?

[@bernardoblanchetramirez6032]

@@StrangersIteDomumeach of them is under $600, not all combined

[@robertlee9935]

It's most often very hard to seperate reviewer for salesman on so called youtube review vids , but well done for being a bone fide 100% Reviewer keep up the good work.

[@Magik1369]

My Citizen eco drive watches are my favorites. No winding...no batteries...they run and keep perfect time. My favorites are Citizen, Seiko, and Bulova....all great watches for ordinary people who do not want to spend the same money for a watch that they can use to buy a car or put a down payment on a house with.

[@pizzagogo6151]

Really appreciate the honest review. Its funny how similar our "journey" has been ( exactly the same until a 18months ago didn't have single citizen, now have five!). This is a great watch, but part from yourself so many reviwers seemed to not complete the statement " ..at this price point!". I personally dont like the offset small seconds but i guess they didnt want to make too similar to other range. Also agree Citzens tends to be on big side, fine if you've got bigger wrists. However Citizen are definitely doing good things in shaking up the budget market in a really positive way!

[@novon101]

Great no BS review. Please keep this up

[@nextonthewrist]

Excellent research and presentation on the super titanium chief. Top quality video and thoroughly enjoyed and educated at the same time. 😎🍻

[@WH250398]

I hate tiffany blue. There, I said it.

[@anathwhatever]

I've never seen a Tiff watch that looked good.

[@WH250398]

@@anathwhatever It doesn't look good with any outfit either in my opinion.

[@matthewgates4130]

Tiffany Blue is gay.

[@mountaingoat2204]

It's looks good on a watch but not with your outfit which is pretty annoying

[@godsreclamation2539]

Me 2 haha

[@hammalamiri12]

Thanks Ben for the top content. This is why I am always frustrated with silly watch ‘enthusiasts’ that read a spec sheet online and then say a competitor is overpriced. I’ve owned a few citizen and a few Seiko. The more ‘expensive’ Seiko’s are built in a completely different league to spec monster citizens but people who don’t buy or get hands on with enough watches make their mind up because shills will always shill the more affordable watch.

[@karliszemitis3356]

I bought this watch(the automatic version) randomly browsing citizen stand, as I was looking for an every day watch that I would not mind to scratch when wokring on cars or doing other hobbies. Watch is absolutely amazing. Your criticism or the loom is 100% coorect - absolutely useless. But I have the white version and its stunning, i couldnt notice any cloudiness or reflections. Also, the wrist size thing is weird - I have large wrists I guess, but on my wrists its on the smaller size. Now few weeks in - I absolutely love it, because its so freaking light and well-fitting. By far the most comfortable watch I have and perfect for what I bought it for.

[@fawkesandhound]

Well done, detective. That’s a proper bit of journalism you did there. When I see titanium, the first thing I think of are my many titanium- handled pocket knives and how they are covered in fine scratches and friction snail-trails like those marks on the bracelet you highlighted. I think they’re over here trying to sell a false sense of security about the finish when really their treatment does nothing. Makes me wish these models just came in regular stainless.

[@Tyrone2714]

Have been loving in the loupe's newsletter and channel for quite a while, glad to see you giving it a proper shout out

[@landonmatthew]

thanks for sharing some alternative opinions! Very helpful for someone who was seriously considering grabbing one.

[@BensWatchClub]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jonlee580]

I like thinner and lighter watches..i feel watches should be worn nad feel like jewelry and feel comfortable and not overwhelming on the wrist

[@low_re8094]

Thank you for the detailed review! I now know that I'll need to adjust my expectations regarding scratch resistance if I purchase one of these. This "Super Titanium" was one of the primary selling points for me, and that is no longer the case.

[@juliuskretschmer9603]

You should review some of the smaller diameter Citizen watches, most of the good ones are JDM but easy ordering from Japan. The 38 mm NB1050 is the best 400 dollar watch new in the entire market in my opinion. Citizen also recently released a 36.5 mm eco drive BM8180-62E for about 120 dollar that looks great :)

[@droobie827]

Sweet dong ho

[@jordanmontoya7386]

I have that 36.5mm , love it for my thin wrist

[@link4444swords]

Wow that NB1050 looks so good. Never knew about it before. Thanks for sharing it.

[@RadicallyGreen]

I got a white Nb-1050 and it's my daily piece. The accuracy and comfort is something else.

[@GeorgeLow-e8x]

Couldn't agree more. The NB1050 is very well done. I have the silver/white model.

[@robbbbery]

Fantastic research, testing, and reporting! Thank you for figuring out this nomenclature mess and calling citizen out. Hopefully this info will get out there.

[@jazzman5598]

I’ve been subbed for years. You run a superb channel Ben. Thanks for busting the big guys. Their “narrative “ leaves much to be desired. I dig in the Loupe as well. Peace!

[@JahangirMohan]

Always a good day when your video drops!Great video as always.Can’t beat it for MAMACOO watches！

[@leonidaslantz5249]

Thank you for addressing the scratch issue and calling out Citizen watches!

[@ebob4177]

Thanks, Ben. You're doing important work.

[@KaalidChha]

I bought a watch from MAMACOO lightly used for my last milestone birthday. Don't wear it as much as it deserves, but not afraid to, either. It's stunning . Good taste, Sir.

[@BerronesBlakeley]

Love your channel with so many stellar watches! For me the MAMACOO’ watch is my favorite. Keep the videos coming. Thanks.

[@matthew_robineau7609]

Awesome video Ben! We need more people like you in the industry. Not scared to dig a bit deeper into things. Good on you for going digging to give your subscribers a better answer!

[@samnova450]

Just happens I have the Zenshin mechanical in light blue. Over all I enjoy it, wish they did use the 9000 movement, better lume and a real clasp with more micro adjustments. Signed up for your forum “In the Loupe”

[@ColonelLighthart]

Watch are the ultimate Men's accesories！Enjoyed watching your collection. Keep going！As a watch enthusiast and watch reviewer, I can say MAMACOO this was a great choice. Enjoyed your video!

[@turnbasedtoddy7664]

I’m with you, I like the three hander the best and I actually really like having the day date complication.

[@BartMan59]

I bought 4 Citizens pieces within the year - 2 Tsuysoa (yellow and pink dial), Tsuyosa sub-second with gray dial and leather strap, and Zenshin Forza with a salmon dial. Love them all.

[@witness00fleming]

I believe the solar panels for the 3 handed eco drive are around the inside of the case between the dial and the crystal. Citizen have mastered the technology for shrinking down the eco drive panels to this location on some of their other recent new releases as well.

[@Stringslayer92]

Love your videos and that you always take your time to really dive into matters and inform other watch nerds. Thank you for this well-done video!

[@ChantalErdem]

As a watch enthusiast with NO budget, thank you MAMACOO for great-looking mechanical watches that I can afford! their are very clean, classy look, $150 each. I still watch videos about expensive “proper” watches, but I enjoy what I have

[@Biscobibble]

This is journalism! Incredible work! Also, what treat to be wearing my mako Ti while watching this!

[@richardbently7236]

I love an Eco-Drive, I want another Eco-Drive, Eco-Drive was my first big watch purchase.....however I don't want to buy a watch over 40mm as I much prefer a 38mm watch. 39.5 ain't bad but I'm not an integrated bracelet person. Also appreciate the deep dive on super titanium Ben.

[@chrisbarbz9238]

Yeah.. Seen them in person and not a fan of the aircraft carrier look on my wrist lol. Still a fan of the watch by itself and cheers to anyone who fits with it well i.e. bigger/wider wrists.

[@jcm9698]

Yeah, I bought the Pro Master Land, a JDM model, titanium, perpetual calendar and more with a 38" case, it's my favorite watch!

[@chrisbarbz9238]

@@jcm9698 have a reference? thx

[@robertj9978]

thanks for the review mate, after watching I'm glad that I went with Tsuyosa small second (still loving it after 4 months)

[@BensWatchClub]

That's a great watch, wish I could try the cream colored one at some point, that is right up my alley!

[@patrickhartmann1540]

Most Citizen aren’t my style, but their line of The Citizen watches are very impressive. I have a Chronomaster and its finishing and detail are better than my watches 3X the price. Point being, they know how to make excellent watches.

[@Baruch-Hashem]

great update. Citizen has made a lot of progress coming the more demanding market in a shrinking industry.

[@serhii_shevtsov]

Thank you a lot for this video and especially for additional information about “super titanium”

[@JohnnyLoniya]

My favorite 2024 is the Prospex Limited Edition 1965 Recreation European Exclusive in Gradation Island Blue. The dial is stunning and the contrast when on a white strap is to die for. I will get my hands on one from AMZWATCH

[@thewatchloupe]

Great job Ben! I'd reviewed the same watch and I think I just saw myself on one of your thumbnails about the other reviewers :) I wasn't sure about the scratch performance and since I didn't have the tools to test I'd clearly mentioned my doubts.. Good job.. As far as I see my concerns were right :( .. Great helpful video.. even for other reviewers :)

[@PaddyMcMe]

That dial being considered close to GS quality is nonsense. The closest Citizen has got to Grand Seiko level dial quality wasn't this it was with the NB3020 with the Silver Foil Lacquered dial. For the price that's an amazing dial, but even it isn't on Grand Seiko's level.

[@shirishpanwalkar]

GS is in a totally different league.

[@speedracer2please]

I'd be curious to compare their "The Citizen" or Eco-drive One lines with GS, but I haven't seen them in person to be sure

[@theangrycanuck8331]

​@@speedracer2pleaseI would compare them to GS quartz entry. GS is above Citizen in terms of finish and detail. That said, Citizen is a great value but comparing the two is like comparing Hersheys with Gourmet chocolate.

[@susrev88]

it's like saying that a 20 year old seiko 5 watch is a rolex killer. also, everyone is always super nice about a watch, everybody likes everything all the time - not authentic imho.

[@Gary-li7ib]

I own a Grand Seiko and picked up a "the Citizen" AQ4100-14L a few months back for a bargain. This range (and the Citizen Chronomaster) is definitely comparable to GS, the finishing is absolutely exceptional and the platinum coating means that its a lot brighter than most titanium watches. Definitely worth checking out

[@CementPie]

I like your videos more than those from watch KZbinrs who could be mistaken for AliExpress salesmen. Keep up the good work!

[@Bob_Smith19]

Jody does not approve of this message.

[@CementPie]

@@Bob_Smith19 Funny that you think of him. 🥶

[@RandallSlick]

Great review/consumer advice. I went off Citizen some time ago having bought two mid-range eco-drive watches on the assumption that their power longevity claims were somewhat based on reality, Perhaps for residents of the Sahara they are, but not for us in northerly latitudes. Less useful than an auto in winter since they're invariably flat and need two days on a windowsill to make ready. Keep up the great work popping those bubbles of BS.

[@andrewegan1732]

Still better channel than the MWC.😊

[@neilfeliciano3338]

This is the kind of review we need

[@peteratherton897]

Really really love the dials, really really hate intergrated bracelets, excited to see were Citizen can go in the future 👍

[@Sumerdini]

I use use Marine Nationale straps, always...

[@birdshenanigans8506]

Ben, thought you might like to know, I've just bought a Casio A159W GEA-1VT that Zeus (Jeff Goldblum) wears in Kaos, and i bloody love it. Godly ostentatious at its finest. Warning, they are now being sought after and prices are rising. 👍❤

[@mersmithy1269]

OMG lol i love kaos and love that watch. My husband loves tacky and im going to buy it for him... he is my God ❤❤❤

[@Theo-ul8qm]

Love this review, especially the super titanium coverage! One thing that boggles my mind about Citizen is why they keep coming out with automatics. Miyota movements are nothing special, and they have such great quartz technology, that I don't understand why anyone would go for the auto. They could keep producing Miyota movements for other brands, but personally, I'd always rather have Eco-Drive than a Miyota. With these watches, Citizen were smart to focus on the dials. The cases and bracelets are absolutely run of the mill (downright ugly, if you ask me). The pins and collar bracelets and stamped clasps look straight out of 1990. But the dials are beautiful. I think they will sell loads of these, even though I don't think they're great watches. They're watches that are made to catch the attention of potential buyers with beautiful dials, but other than that, I see very little to like about them.

[@peterlau9682]

Thank you for all of your hard work and good reviews.

[@simonhendy199]

Great journalism Ben! Thank you! 👌

[@keysncoffee7733]

I noticed the size when it was placed next to a PRX. Design is better IMO but it's bigger.

[@sinisanikolic9815]

I have dark blue automatic and i like him so much. He is light weight, looks nice, very quality and work very good. All what i need from all day watch :) I don't compare it with other watches.

[@MyRetroWatches]

Big fan of Citizen but mainly 70s stuff which this reminds me of. I’ve repaired their chrono’s, many of their movements some of which are quite complex. I’ve now also explored their run on using Bulova Accutron movements in their Hisonic range and GX. I see your review Ben and enjoying you talk about them and showing off the nice 70s cases and then at 7:40 you kill me…. Miyota ! I’ve nothing against Miyota even the 8000. They are a price point movement that are easy to work on but from factory are appalling with oil in weird places. But why are Citizen using their cheap Miyota brand . I think for a $300-400 watch it should at least me a full factory Citizen movement surely? Do they even make their own? I’m m so stuck in the vintage world I don’t even know.

[@zynory]

Always love your videos! I like your chill vibe!

[@BensWatchClub]

Thank you so much 🤗

[@HrnaNeuhoff]

When people are saying MAMACOO is a better option for buying a watch,I very much agree!

[@akhilsharma20]

Most honest video I saw, other KZbinr was just like oh yea titanium and shit, earned a sub, going to unsubscribe other one

[@phugoid]

This is the first time I stumbled on to your channel. Since you seem to have time for quartz watches as well, I'll try a few other videos ere subscribing. Call me old school but it's just mechanical fare for moi, not that that should matter to you, o'course :)

[@markloubser2433]

absolutely agree on the styling until recently.......

[@lethargic_cow]

?

[@AdamAd-x6e]

I purchased the eco-drive but returned it because the seconds hand didn't hit on the marks. Everything else was beyond my expectations. The finishing was amazing for the price. I loved the contrast of the mirror polished parts of the watch and the bead blasted bracelet. I may purchase the mechanical version to check it out.

[@PaulaKing-b9j]

When it comes to fine imitation watches, MAMACOO delivers. I've bought from them several times, and I've never been let down.

[@niechcem]

Great review Ben! I don't know why this coating doesn't work in synthetic tests, nevertheless I have an automatic version of this watch and use it almost every day and it looks much better than my other SS watches similarly used. Maybe in synthetic tests it doesn't work but in every day use this watch scratches less than SS equivalents.

[@Philip_Taylor]

The eco-drive field watch, that you can get exclusively at Argos for some reason, is a decent piece for the money. It's 100 quid these days, I remember when it was £50. Anyway, it feels like it cost 3x more, it's just that it deals with wear and tear less favourably than a more expensive watch. I had to return the first one because the day/date adjustment would not work, but the replacement has been faultless to this day, and I have to say, looks quite like a well designed piece. The eco-drive function is nice, and feels nice to have, since you know it will never stop.

[@blobrana8515]

Good work. Great information to know since i expect most manufacturers will start to produce new titanium case ranges.

[@dazherbert2782]

I love Citizens, I have the yellow challenge diver you referenced in the intro, my gf has Promasters, but their titanium pilot watch was as jangly as a 6 quid full metal SKMEI Royale. They always shoot themselves in the foot imo, unless it's a Promaster. Keep on bashing them about the Titanium shit, it's not on. Well done Ben

[@CKshouta]

Citizen watches with complications are usually big but they keep the weight down as much as they could. Their Bluetooth watch are at a whopping 48mm case diameter but weigh 125 grams with its titanium bracelet. If you got a moderately meaty wrist it fits great.

[@Jindsing]

citizen has definitely stepped their game up over the last few years!

[@travissharon1536]

Just ordered the dark green dial small second automatic. It seems to be a non-USA model, so I have to wait a few weeks for it to get here. I'm excited!

[@chrissyyeskins2883]

Good work, Ben. Well done.

[@mrspandel5737]

I just bought myself the three-hander with the Green dial as a new Daily beater (its the cheapest of the Forza Super Titanium series, lightweight, moderately sized and pretty much maintenance free thanks to the EcoDrive movement) On my Example the Dial appears more like marble with an almost crystaline texture depending on lighting. My main gripe with the Watch are the sharp edges on the bracelet links, I'd personally prefer if the edges were diagonally cut like on the Case, both for visual coherence and added comfort. So far I don't find it uncomfortable on the wrist though.

[@TheArk12345]

Honest Ben ! Thanks for uncovering the SuperTitanium scam.

[@RamimKalam]

Would love to hear your take on Q&Q. This Citizen budget subbrand seems extremely underrated, and it produces really good quality watches under the sub-100 usd catagory. In countries like mine, it is a really good brand if someone is trying to get into watch collection, it is a really good entry level brand along with Casio

[@benbarnett5684]

This review is another example why Ben is one of the best watch reviewers - honest all the way through and not just joining the hype. Thank you for all the work and honesty you put into your videos! Cheers!

[@johninNJ]

Not really. A truly good watch reviewer can look past things that don't fit them personally and give objective comments. Guys like him constantly bash anything over 40mm.

[@russellseah2347]

The EcoDrive Day Date version has the better dial, fit and symmetry. Stunning value.

[@GentHoChan]

Finally the closest to the accurate pronunciation of Tsuyosa well done

[@waalererik]

Great job Ben, keep up the good work….👍

[@unattributed1641]

Ben, I don't know about the UK, but the US version of Citizen&s site offers free band sizing.... Just give them your wrist size and they'll size it for you. Personally I like the sizes of their watches, smaller sizes (like 36mm) tend to get swallowed by ky wrist. This is, in fact, the only issue I have with the Casio Lineage watches. As for tge Super Titanium: I agree, they should have the grade of Duratect used listed as part of the product specs.

[@malakisands8180]

When you show a Eco Drive Citizen please make sure that you have had it charged by a light source. When the power reserve is low the second hand slows down this is to indicate that it needs light. This is a design that Citizen has in place

[@johncalberg1573]

very good review. thanks

[@TikTalk]

Great video and very good conclusions. I don't care personally about scratches, but reviewers should definitely refrain from spreading marketing nonsense to their viewers. The only worse reviews are probably sponsored ones 🙈

[@dutchpagans]

I got myself the chrono, it's my first citizen, and I am seriously impressed! And no I am not a professional eater.

[@ribhavgupta6148]

If we play his exact words at that point, it sounds like he's talking about a watch >45mm. But 42mm actually looked good on Ben too. I've been into watches from last year, and the sheer enemity towards slightly bigger watches is baffling. the whole watch community wants to convince everyone that if a watch is slightly bigger for your wrist, it's not good

[@barrettwbenton]

Excellent bit of sleuthing, Ben. Generally speaking, I've never been particularly gaga over titanium in watches - an outsized watch on my wrist in Ti *still* feels unbalanced on-wrist, just a handful of ounces lighter, for what that's worth, which in my case isn't much. At any rate, Citizen owes us a better job in disseminating relevant info regarding what materials they use, and why.

[@ttothec]

Was going to buy one of these until I saw your scratch tests. Thank you.

[@lordcharfield]

Lol, the king of click-bait calls out “click bait” 😉 Just teasing, I love your channel 😅

[@Aliens_Gonna_Get_Ya]

That turquoise Citizen’s awesome… 👍😊💥

[@CymInUA]

Very interesting video. I own a 40mm Citizen Promaster Tough 'Super Titanium' BN0118-04E, which I genuinely rate as a daily beater. It's picked up a couple of scratches although to be honest, it's held up really well. No idea what rating the 'super titanium" is.

[@kazkaze2456]

Titanium is lighter thats it.. thats the whole thing

[@FacultyFan]

I like Citizens/Miyota, but I wish they would do a couple things a little differently. 1. allow the rotors to wind the watches uni-directionally on their automatics. I wish they didn't split Accutron from Bulova. Now the Accutron, meant to be an easily attainable, super accurate time piece is now in the ultra premium segment.

[@UwaseTae]

MAMACOO is a must for me as a watch collector

[@Gary-li7ib]

I know they are a lot more expensive but it looks like they save the top tier coating for their "the citizen" and "citizen chronomaster" range. These are absolutely exceptional, the platinum coating means they dont even look like titanium and the finish is on par with Grand Seiko (which I also own). I tried on the Forzas as well and they felt a bit cheap and rattly to me. Love the level of detail you go into and respect for not just going along with the marketing nonsense!

[@RodrigoPizarro-n5h]

MAMACOO！Every time you exhibit one of these watches I become super tempted to get one.

[@alldayla2500]

@BensWatchClub regarding scratch resistance, I watched your scratch test video and the BM7360 that you tested doesn't have Duratect coating on the case and it's only applied on the bracelet. The models that you're showing here are far more durable against scratches as Duratect is applied to both case and bracelet.

[@BensWatchClub]

If you watch 16:37 you'll see these Duratect watches in fact do not perform any better than the BM7360, sadly

[@Bugz95]

If they did this in a smaller size I reckon it would sell well. I'd 100% buy this. I like my PRX but I much prefer the look of this

[@johnpaavo]

I just bought the Zenshin Chrono in Tiffany Blue!! Of course I think it's the best looking one of the bunch....My first Citizen, first titanium. And 42.5 isn't that big.... it sure wears "light" on the wrist! Especially compared to my Seamaster diver... which is smaller, but doesn't feel like it is.. Now I need to get a new "The Citizen" watch.... to bad they're around 4-5 grand!

[@nealewalter]

Subscribed- nice review. Also subbed to in the loupe

[@benjaminvis]

Thank you very much for looking into the Super Titanium madness. I tried to find out and gave up for lack of clarity. In my opinion it does actually ruin the proposition here. In a sea of watches the solar Forza seemed like a truly stylish but affordable pracitcal choice for more active situations, but if the hardness anounts to nithing I wouldn't want to go there.

[@Hamzak786]

Best Watch reviewer. Thank you for this video. I was so confused and was going to buy this watch but you have opened my eyes not too. It is a nice watch but for the price point not really worth it unless it is ECO drive.

[@farhankhatri4937]

You sound really look at the jdm Seiko sbpy165 and the others in its series. Truly one of the greatest watches I've had my hands on. Ar sapphire crystal, solar chrono. Beautiful sundial.

[@elshazlio]

This is great journalism.