Did Advanced Civilizations Exist Before Humans? Silurian Hypothesis Explored

[@whatdamath]

There are a few more similar videos being planned on the idea of intelligence and evolution of the brain, but for now, a somewhat relevant but different video on the idea of the brain as an accidental survivor is here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGnOhIGhga98abM

[@LazyRare]

Hi

[@A.N.G.E.L.I.N.E.]

Hi Anton, this is my favourite theory I would love more videos on ancient civilisations. Thanks

[@booklover6753]

Having a brain that allows thought at even a rudimentary level would be an evolutionary plus because it might allow a primitive life form to find a way to survive if environmental changes occurred suddenly or over a longer period of time. Also too, the more evolved a brain becomes, the better it would serve it's host at finding ways to adapt to changing conditions of environment and predation. I would posit that having a brain, rather than being an accidental survivor of evolution, is a prerequisite for longterm survival. My hypothesis hinges on the idea of brains evolving to become proactive in their function instead of reactive. Unfortunately, fossil evidence can't tell us how much intelligence an extinct specie's brain may have harbored at some level, or whether they were capable of acting proactively.

[@onlyme0349]

this was an exceptionally well presented video

[@philt4346]

It's good you pay attention to such, even if it's too 'far out' for institutions.

[@janboreczek3045]

Well, there is a great book on a similar topic: "The Earth After Us: What Legacy Will Humans Leave in the Rocks?" by Jan Zalasiewicz, a geologist from the University of Leicester. He describes a similar situation - how some future civilisation 100 mln years from now would gradually discover that there was our technological civilisation, and it would actually leave a plenty of signs of its existence. Some will be quite obvious, while some would be more subtle. And he describes it as a geologist, the geological remnants that our civilisation will leave behind. Even a very subtle thing like the compositon of the shallow sea floor deposits from eroded cities deposited by a river, along with many other interesting things. So, an industrial technological civilisation like ours will leave some definite signs (although most f them will require some thorough examination and research before their cause will become clear). However, pre-industrial societies are quite likely to be almost invisible or completely invisible in the geological record

[@th-3dstudioth-3dstudio16]

I think if there was intelligent life before us, it doesn’t need to have reached industrial level, also diferent species different types of intelligence

[@accountrandomnumber182]

@@th-3dstudioth-3dstudio16 plus we could just have grew up with it and though it was just the status quo, we'll never know

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

Footprints of shoes and boots, as opposed to only the footprints of bare feet.

[@christianclavel7231]

In 100 millions of years from now: no trace of human civilisation. And we had disappear since very, very, very long time from Earth. But you and Anton and I will existe but elsewhere. Think a little bit where all humains will be....

[@--...--...--...]

Does this book factor in plate tectonics, ice shelves, astroud impacts, volcanic activity, etc. by chance? There's a lot of ways nature could erode evidence over 100 million years; genuinely curious to know how things like this would be answered for..?

[@donaghb7307]

It gets even more difficult if you think that many of those geological markers require an industrial civilization. Iron age civilisations probably leave even less of a mark if any

[@LordVader1094]

@@googleyoutubechannel8554 Not entirely true. We're only aware of certain things because something was left. There's whole sections of history we have nothing on because nothing exists beyond speculation. It's hard to be aware of something that has no evidence left.

[@SofaMuncher]

​@googleyoutubechannel8554 that very well could be the case. As the previous commentor pointed out, even many parts of our own history are mostly erased. And so much of our remants from then persevere. Across millions of years, all but the tiniest fragments of civilizations would remain, and we easily may never have found any yet. Even if we have found them, it would be such an exception, it would probably be attributed to something else.

[@EddyKorgo]

Thats one half of the problem. Second problem is we dont know where or how deep and we have no way of seeing whats under the ground. We need a sonar that can see through a soil, rock what ever

[@phoenixjones7191]

Maybe I'm just not understanding this but can't we pretty sure nothing moved past the neolithic age because if you dug into the ground and found any non naturally occurring alloys like steel would be pretty blatant evidence that they were artificially forged. Metallurgy seems like it would disprove this theory. You'd just need a single piece of alloy from anything at all to camp out in a fairly geologically stable area and you'd have your proof that there were industrialized civs before us. Neolithic species seem more possible but nothing like us in modern times.

[@BSpinoza210]

@@googleyoutubechannel8554 Look, the only reliable way of determining if any civilization has existed in the past would be if they were industrialized at the very least. Prior to industrialization, even the trash decays, arrowheads or other stone tools become impossible to distinguish from the surrounding rock through erosion, and given that civilizations may only exist for short spurts of time, then the deposition layer from which to draw from is vanishingly small and highly location specific. The best way to determine if something existed prior to humans would be to look for sudden dips in consumable resources or variations in the amounts of carbon and oxygen in the atmosphere. Actually, the best way would be to look at Lagrange Points for ancient satellites or on the moon for artifacts that haven't yet decayed over the millions of years between us and other potential civilizations.

[@RobertDPore]

I’m not entirely sure we’re “alone” on this planet *currently*. Dolphins, octopuses, elephants, and maybe even crows are fairly intelligent creatures, but their physiologies make it more or less impossible that they would ever be able to build things. I think that, across the history of Earth and the universe, there have probably been many intelligent species out there that, because of their physiology or atmosphere, would never be able to build or achieve fire/combustion.

[@johnathonhuson8734]

Anyone spending time with animals from the time their born until the time they pass, understands exactly what you’re saying to be true.

[@dcocz3908]

I don't think we're that intelligent, like who voted for Biden is a good example

[@よしみ-x5j]

True. Why is it so hard to come to terms with this fact? We know some species have their culture, like tools and games of chimps and macaques that they learn from each other and their vary between groups. Some learnt to use salty water to preserve food etc. Whales singing is also like this, they still changing their songs, influencing each other etc. It may be it's the most sophisticated music on the planet, but it's beyond our minds.

[@finchi55]

There are plenty of creatures that are more intelligent than humans in their own regard but at the same time comparatively to how humans process information most things are relatively extremely unintellegent.

[@whatdamath]

that's true, however there is a very specific (and accidental) mutation that human brains went through that I'll discuss in the next few weeks (or when the video is done) that makes our brains able to do something that those other creatures can't eg octopuses are extremely good at doing many things we can do agility speaking but they just lack the brain capacity for more extreme types of thinking as is, human brain really seems to be an evolutionary fluke more than anything and technically should have been a disadvantage to the survival because of the amount of energy it requires to sustain. yet through sheer luck, we ended up benefiting from it and becoming the dominant (debatable) multicellular species for the time being

[@just_kos99]

"West of Eden" by Harry Harrison is another novel of alternate history, if the dinosaurs hadn't gone extinct. Highly recommended!

[@hanovergreen4091]

"Where are the cloaks?" Saddest line in that book. :(. Best Regards!

[@corbintrevor3199]

Thank you for the recommendation! I love a good sci-fi novel/series from the 80's. Even though they can be weirdly over sexual at times lmao.

[@Tagurrit]

@@corbintrevor3199 nothing is overly sexual. Only overly graphic! 😂

[@corbintrevor3199]

@@Tagurrit you have a good point lol, definitely wouldn't be so awkward if it was just implied sex but def too much detail for my tastes, and they always seem to mention the details of the effects of high g-force on the balls.

[@GotMyTowel42]

@@corbintrevor3199XD

[@nikkic8673]

You are so strong to be back up and making such well executed videos. One of the best i have seen in a while, thank you for your efforts. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss, I wish you and your family well wishes and I hope your hearts heal quickly. I will donate to your cause in memory of your little one ❤

[@jamesb1221222]

There was an episode of star trek voyager where there were also reptiles (from sometime in the age of the dinosaurs) that evolved to the point of leaving earth where they wound up in the delta quadrant. Pretty cool idea.

[@norischuk]

Do you maybe know sesaon and/or episode? :)

[@delanon3t]

S3E23 Distant Origin

[@norischuk]

@@delanon3t thank you :))))

[@trippsmclovin]

@@delanon3t 🤘🖖

[@wethepeople3670]

🖖

[@JoeCensored]

A problem with finding signs of past intelligence is intelligent life has existed for around 300,000 years on earth, but anything we would consider advanced technology for just a few hundred. Advanced structures capable of withstanding the elements for just a few thousand. So at best we've been building structures a future species might recognize for around the last 2% of our existence, and not in large numbers until recently. The thing is you don't just need intelligence. Intelligence just makes good hunter gatherers leaving little more than arrow heads behind. You need a large stable society with abundant food to allow creators the freedom to invent instead of going after their next meal. It took humanity 98% of its existence to get there.

[@peppermintgal4302]

Well, its not even that you need a stable society --- you actually don't. You need specific chance discoveries. Also, there are a handful of structures that we have made that will leave striking signatures of their existence behind for potentially millions of years. Hydroelectric plants are essentially enormous batholiths, kinda. (I mean, maybe a different kind of rock, but....) There's also all the undeniable chemical signatures that would be left in sediments the entire world over. These would themselves be detectable actual billions of years later. Same reason we know as much as we do about ancient climates.

[@betsapp8501]

and it’s still not there yet for everyone, still many people are too preoccupied with survival to be able to pursue creative activity

[@OscyJack-]

what are you defining as intelligent life? stone megaliths have been around for at least 12,000 years, some debate on the aging of some megaliths. many geologists agree the sphynx itself like likely and at the very least, the better part of 12,000 years old, if not far older. the oldest megaliths discovered this far date as far back as the younger dryas period. humans have been anatomically modern for 200,000 years. glacial periods, or the onset of interglacials are often chaotic for Earth's climate and equilibrium on the surface and destroy much of any archaeological evidence. other species being advanced in Earth's past isn't that crazy a thought. especially since previous human advancement is relatively unknown. in 5 generations we've gone from horseback to space flight. out of the 7,000 generations of anatomically modern humans, it's not at all outside the box to consider that we may have previously displayed other forms of advancement and society building. another species is wild to think about being "intelligent" life.

[@ebob0531]

although it is possible that if something intelligent does exist, an advanced society will come eventually

[@y2ggaming397]

Thats not even mentioning Australopithecus or the Homo genus either, makes your point even stronger

[@AuntLizzie]

Oh yes, I nearly forgot. Intelligent lizard life does exist. I know this because when I dig in my garden I have several small and larger lizards who join me and wait for me to step back when I dig up worms, so they can safely come in to grab them. Like a small dog, they look up at me and back at where I am digging, encouraging me to get on with it. Luv them.

[@nickidaisydandelion4044]

Ohhh that is so cool.

[@captaincanada67]

Your truly a brilliant person, and explains extremely advanced science so simply an average person can easily understand. There is no one else on KZbin with all your qualities keep it up. Keep teaching us.

[@samsmith2635]

Anton, your energy for Science and sharing it with others reminds me of some of the greats, like Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan, you are some extra special star stuff.

[@TaxPayingContributor]

Much learned since "What the math?"

[@Svensk7119]

He must have a naquadah generator! Right as I typed that, it showed a pyramid space ship. Ha!

[@paulbennett7021]

Indeed! It's a case of making difficult concepts understandable to a general audience

[@surgeonsergio6839]

You are extra special star stuff as well!

[@whatdamath]

thank you, but I definitely need a few decades of seasoning before I get to their level. I'm just a guy who learned ArXiv existed and started reading papers while coping with life

[@Creative_Expression]

SO glad you covered this topic. It's been such a taboo for so long, its very refreshing to see level heads like yours giving the subject an honest look.

[@whatdamath]

I don't think it's a taboo as much as just one of those topics that lacks any kind of evidence so people don't even know where to start. It's been brought up many times in scientific circles, but it always ends with "but how do we even begin proving it?" - the interesting thing out of this study is the proposal to use those multi level signatures in sediment and things like unusual water depositions to try to tackle the idea

[@Creative_Expression]

@@whatdamathwell unfortunately that’s not the response many archeologists have had, I’ve heard them shut down the whole idea on various levels. But I’m very glad this is happening.

[@canna-sins]

hmmpf nowadays historians are bound by the books written in the past and if a new discovery doesnt fit in the history these men allready painted you will be discredited and called a pseudo scientist even if you study a field for 30+ years and have more proof then the leading scientists on a certain field, if it says they were wrong the you are a psuedo scientist who didnt do his research the right way and thus came up with false outcome and if you persist that your research was done properly and the outcome was real then say bye bye to your carreer and you can only show your face in the pseudo society and wont be welcome at any university or be asked to join any research by mainstream science (university, museums, etc.) its a shame we allow those people to discredit honest hard working people just because it doesnt fit in their program to say yes you are right and discrediting is just easier then saying oops i might have been wrong...

[@beetledjuice3062]

It's awesome that we are starting to actually consider such things in a scientific spectrum. I do think, though, that considering the size of the universe, something being common overall might still be not available in the same place, in a similar way. I keep wondering if life is relatively common, but just too spread out.

[@jimmcneal5292]

Doubt it. Once life starts colonizing other star systems, it snowballs and settles the entire universe

[@jimmcneal5292]

@@ChefBoyardeedoge definitely did not help to clarify things

[@benwilliams3539]

Nothing scientific about this trash. Just kids playing make believe

[@dinoflame9696]

You'd have to reach a "tool threshold". Even if a species started using tools, it's not until their evolution shifts towards tool use PRIMARILY, that the scale tips over and snowballs. For example, in humans it has resulted in loss of energy-intense mechanisms like fur or fast twitch muscles.... Chimps can also use tools, but they don't rely on it so there is no selective pressure to further develop a tool-oriented brain. I think this is a major point along the way to civilization, and why it rarely happens.

[@TheReubenShow]

There may be another "tool threshold" --- if a civilization has enough leaders who are tools, it collapses.

[@changingform250]

It's frustrating that when we talk of intelligent life we often mean tool using life. Cuttlefish and octopus have a reasonably high level of intelligence, but no chance of competing in the space race, they only live a few years, not enough time to learn rocket science.

[@patstaysuckafreeboss8006]

@@changingform250 They have no chance of anything remarkable. Not even learning chess or checkers. Not even learning how to add 2+2. Octopi and Cuttlefish are FAR dumber than you humans give them credit for.

[@anthrobug]

@@changingform250 I'm fascinated by Cuttlefish - I've seen they can 'speak' through their skin using the complex patterns and colors. I have to wonder if there's also a lifeform that's only about thought, like a monk, that won't have 'tools' pers se but use their environment most optimally & have a deep and complex social structure that is invisible from outside their species. We really need a universal translator, ie Star Trek.

[@dh2032]

@@changingform250 just think about any intelligent life, that if it did come here, and it was really intelligent life, would take one look the this blue marble, and what we do to each over, and the the plant its self, and keep moving as fast as posable not looking back 🛸🛸🚀🚀🛰🛰

[@chrishenderson420]

The fact Anton has kept going after the tragedy, and also raised 200k is just astounding. I know I wouldn't have been able to do it.

[@ಸಚಿನ್-ಝ7ರ]

Umm sorry?

[@alexhamilton8559]

@@ಸಚಿನ್-ಝ7ರ His child died

[@Vicus_of_Utrecht]

@@alexhamilton8559 oh God 😔

[@HalkerVeil]

@@alexhamilton8559 Holy crap really?

[@eamondelaney3287]

That's because it's mostly propaganda. Most of Ukraine carries on as normal. The Ukraine Nazis have been killing their own and blame it on Russia. Do some real research and turn off the your TV

[@tony.h321]

Crabs, and lobsters, crayfish, prawns, and shrimps, all seem very "bug-like" to me, i.e. insects and arachnids, which are also highly common/successful animals in terms of evolution. Apparently the "low-to-the-ground exo-skeleton frame, with many legs and mandibles" design is very effective in general.

[@alexandergoldnatznworeptil9652]

Tyranids are a thing.

[@Spartan-oj9dc]

The issue is gravity , tetrapods , ie mammals who are not upright who walk on all fours have their weight distributed over a larger surface area and so evolution favors this . Humans who are bipedal have their weight distributed over a smaller surface area , evolution does not favor this which is why humans are the only species that are mainly bipedal.

[@Drakkose]

@@Spartan-oj9dc If evolution doesn't favor this how did it evolve?

[@theflyingdutchman_01]

@@Spartan-oj9dc - yep, nature clearly does not favor the bipedals… that’s probably the reason why birds walk on 4 legs, right?

[@SleepySloth2705]

@@Drakkose intelligence + tool-use + making our living conditions more safe and comfortable, which to this day has rendered us useless in the wild

[@eugenytzonev8829]

"Children of Time" is a novel I find really intriguing. The way it covers the idea of how life would develop is a good take on how we shouldn't aliken every other possible civilisation to our way of development, especially since we are far from optimal.

[@napoleonfeanor]

Why should other civilizations be more "optimal"? There are many things civilizationsvon our planet based on vertebrates must have in common to become civilizations.

[@5kMagic]

Interesting topic and very well explained, as usual. Thank you.

[@JC-tq8gm]

I would imagine that for a human like species to evolve, no matter how smart they were, the conditions would have to be exactly right. If predators were too aggressive, climate too harsh, geology too harsh, poorly time asteroid impact... The list would be almost endless to get it just right. Like rolling snake-eyes 20 times in a row. It will happen eventually, but not often. Life itself though I believe we have shown is tough and can develop on its own in the most hostile places. The kind of life that drinks lattes though may be extremely rare indeed.

[@Lantern_Larry]

Dashing my hope to one day sip space latte.

[@shukrantpatil]

we did survive the ice age and populated every continent , from the ice cold europe to barbeque hot middle east and India to the amazon rainforest. A species as smart as us would easily be able to live past all the calamities except asteriod impacts

[@Sparticulous]

The middle to end permian with its series of extinction events could fit

[@frglee]

Just as interesting is the development of human technological societies here on Earth. Why did the Industrial Revolution happen in England and other parts of Europe 200 - 250 years back, and not in Rome 1800 years ago or Mesopotamia or Northern China 4000 years back? Seems a complicated and very specific mix of agricultural prosperity, scientific and engineering curiousity, as well as societal change all have to be there first.

[@11regnartseht]

It doesn't take much technology to enjoy a latte. The paper cup is the tricky part. We would most likely not understand or recognize the evidence of a past technological society, and if someone did find evidence of ancient technology they would be ridiculed and dismissed as a conspiracy theorist or something.

[@Owilliams]

Congratulations on expressing broad curiosity Anton! I've been pondering this and similar lines of thought for around 50 years now and have always found it endlessly fascinating. 😊

[@DNihilHEAVYIndustries]

Anton, I'm sorry for your loss. I too lost my child. He was four and a half months old never got to leave the NICU and he died in my arms in December of 2019. It is the absolute worst thing I've ever been through in my whole entire life I miss my boy so much what you're doing with the fundraiser is awesome! I wish you all the best. It's one of those pains that you'll never quite get over, but with time it does get a little bit easier. Much respect brother.

[@curtisforbes8202]

You did an especially amazing job at addressing this topic (which can easily go sidewise into either quackery or pedantry) seriously but accessibly. Thanks.

[@Maastrichian]

I've used this a lot in my sci fi writing project, from the predictable to a couple of unexpected examples. It is such a fun and intriguing hypothesis, and I love attempting to flesh it out logically in my writing.

[@rydz656]

You act like you're the only one, Robert Howard was doing it with Conan. It was a book called Lord of the black river.

[@liquidpza]

@@rydz656 In no way was he acting like the only one writing about it. You can relay this information without the unneeded and undeserved negativity.

[@therealpatriarchy]

Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars.~Robert E. Howard

[@matte2160]

I read this in John Michael Goidier’s voice.

[@fastquick4266]

@@matte2160 JMG baby! 🔥💪

[@bbutc]

I agree, trying to find signs of intelligent life on this planet is becoming increasingly difficult.

[@slyy4096]

searching without success may become new norm

[@PatrioticBlues]

Idiocracy wasn't just a movie 🤣

[@BBoldGaming]

Looking the wrong way .. intelligence is everywhere

[@slyy4096]

@@BBoldGaming Some intelligence, is. Even our complex brains are most of time blank. Plants are not intelligent, the idea of their creation is. Yeah depends on definition

[@Alexandros.Mograine]

@@BBoldGaming intelligence is all relative tho.

[@bluntkushman9660]

love the videos anton been subbed for years dont take it the wrong way but i love watching your vids to go to sleep gives me trippy dreams but in all seriousness your my main source of scientific news when the fusion ignition news came out i knew you were going to drop a vid thanks for all the dedication

[@krombopulousmichael6933]

Best science Channel on KZbin. Thank you, Anton. You're truly a boon to modern science media.

[@coryhafer7285]

I work on liquid cargo barges and I've thought about what signs of our existence might be left and buried in the future. I picture the next advance species digging and drilling and wondering why they find minor pockets of varying oil composites along ancient river beds with a thin layer of iron. What strange and fascinating ideas they might come up with.

[@9rendel]

I know that the orbits our artificial satellites will decay and leave no trace, but we also have aritificial satellites in relatively stable LaGrange points. Is there a chance that a museum of our history and diverse cultures could be left in one of these places? If so, should we search such stable zones for traces of lost civilizations?

[@ridetillidie8090]

Interesting, but non-viable project. As an example, the JWST has only been on station for a short while and already is being pelted with space junk. Extrapolate that out into a time frame in which some other life form will have developed space travel (impossible) and by the time the got here, it would have been reduced to rubble by repeated impacts with objects of varying size traveling at speeds we'll never be able to replicate. A LaGrange point does not make an object impervious to the many 'things' flying around out there. And, depending on when our sun self-destructs, that point might not be as safe then as we think it is now. :D

[@nothanks9503]

@@ridetillidie8090what if they put a small say iridium capsule something extremely hard and damage resistant that contains some kind of data like a time capsule it would be small enough that the odds of impact are low and it’s shape and hardness could be as such that anything it did impact it would go through

[@ridetillidie8090]

@@nothanks9503 If it was a pure single-molecule structure, yeah, that might work. But then the problem is keeping it in one spot. :D Solar winds, dust and even the smallest micrometeoroids striking it would affect its position. It's a challenge, for sure. Also, it would have to have an onboard energy source if we're going to have a location device of any kind. Then the problem becomes keeping the power source going. Solar panels would eventually be impacted/degraded as we've seen happen on other satellites. It's a tough one.

[@AnalyticalReckoner]

I think Israel dropped off a library on the moon but it crashed and probably didn't survive.

[@nothanks9503]

@@ridetillidie8090 No like a bullet think more like an ape lol so it has enough mass that when fired into a stable orbit at high speed will stay there and we could perhaps use a nuclear fueled propulsion and tracking system but better yet no tracking no propulsion just the initial speed combined with relatively high mass and a shape made for penetration with a small radioactive material imbedded inside it say just enough to make it stand out in the radiation of space

[@tapewerm6716]

Interesting! I have thought about ancient advanced civilizations myself since childhood. But I never thought to possibly connect it with temperature spikes we know occurred in Earth's past.

[@alwaysyouramanda]

I look at small animals sometimes and wonder if they could have reverted from a more intelligent form to an alternatively specialized one. Brainpower is so “expensive.” Evolution doesn’t seem to favor it. Humanity now is actually apparently experiencing a dangerously low birth rate. Our numbers are high now but I guess you could liken it to taking a pyramid and flipping it on its head when the populous ages. We might be in trouble. “The land of the free” is forcing births aaagain. -and there’s evidence that that correlates better than anything else with consistent rising crime rates (with an obvious 15 year offset.) Something about being raised by a mom that doesn’t love you guarantees a bad upringing.

[@OBGynKenobi]

When you are looking "out there" you're looking back in time. So we don't really know how things are RIGHT NOW .

[@SjS_blue]

so actually we can't see very much , how would we know ?

[@OBGynKenobi]

@@SjS_blue we wouldn't. But that's not to say nothing is there. It could be that we don't know how to look or what to look for . Who knows, maybe they're already here and will reveal themselves in their time of choosing. But personally I cannot believe that we are the only "intelligence" in the vastness of the universe. It's preposterous to even think that.

[@linyenchin6773]

@@SjS_blue introspection on the level of I-Ching divination which makes use of the law of correspondence and correlation to sense the flow of change in all things, it's attempted meditaive use of an individual's whope being like if it were a quantum computer.

[@linyenchin6773]

@@SjS_blue it's basically what he is rambling about regarding the existence of crabs and flying as a faculty of various species.

Well, 1 second back in time is not important, it is still now. Ten, a hundred, or a thousand years back in time is not important either; geologically speaking is nothing.

[@vicsusinetti3482]

Beautifully concise overview of a very complex topic. Great work yet again Anton.

[@BigJohn6060]

I too have pondered this idea for years... what of our civilization will remain even after 100,000 years. we see how earlier human civilization's remains erode over just a few thousand years. Over geological time, what mysteries are hidden in those mists.

[@olivercharles2930]

same. maybe deep within the earth there are long buried signs of previous intelligence life

[@Nathan-jt8zt]

Very interesting, I’m glad the scientific community is actually exploring these hypotheses

[@Frenchy78ify]

they are obliged, too much proofs everywhere, pyramids everywhere, cities under 700m of water ( which implicates that its way way way way older than humans), religions talking so much about gods and other beings ... I mean iots pretty obviouys, we can't explain shit in our history and stuff built on earth or even on the moon lol ... As long as the black knight satellite ( satellite present before the first human satellite was launched) sooooo yes they are obliged

[@snipelite94]

I'm not convinced all the complex materials and structures would be so effectively wiped out If dinosaur fossils survived to be discovered, then a great deal of technological dumping grounds would have left some evidence Great doctor who story, by the way

[@entelin]

@@snipelite94 The lack of various materials would also be a tell. Additionally I feel that an advanced civ that saw it's demise coming would do something to ensure preservation of something.

[@cambobby2011]

@@entelin You mean like we are presentely taking care of our planet right now....

[@djdedan]

@@Frenchy78ify absolutely none of that is proof of anything...

[@Mr_Sovik]

Doctor Who and the Cave Monsters (the novelisation of "The Silurians") is favourite Doctor Who story, from a time where science-fiction was a forum used by scientists to experiment and explore fascinating, possible concepts. It is wonderful that Malcom Hulke's work is still being discussed now. Another early Doctor Who writer, Kit Pedler, was a medical scientist who was fascinated by the rate at which transplant technology was advancing, so he conceived of the idea of the cybermen. (You have probably heard of them.) He wanted to explore the point at which a transplanted human stops being human. It seems that science-fiction is "softer" than perhaps it once was. The best science-fiction writers are scientists.*

[@you-know-who.]

Hey you know that episode was inspired by an apparent interview with an intelligent terrestrial reptile called the Lacerta files...Definitely worth a read or listen.. personally I'm tempted to believe the transcript is non fiction

[@HimitsuHunter]

Agreed. One of my favorite Scifi books was "Raptor Red" written by a paleontologist.

[@Mr_Sovik]

@@HimitsuHunter I shall have to add it to my reading list.

[@kevink1575]

The Voyager episode with the Voth wasn't bad either.

[@Mr_Sovik]

@@kevink1575 I thought it was a poor imitation of the original Doctor Who story, but I suppose it is worth rewatching.

[@daveogarf]

I agree, Anton! Since life on Earth is our only proven example as of now, we are the best proof of how life develops and evolves. Thank you.

[@xXturbo86Xx]

And DEvolves as well.....judging by the state of our societies.

[@sbam4881]

However, as any statistician will tell you, drawing any assumptions/hypothesis/conclusions from a sample size of one is completely worthless. (Stats 101 says that the minimum N has to be at least 30). It's more like Scientist have no other choice since they can only only get one sample - Earth. It's or ego/hubris that projects this as the norm. For example, it may well be that it's far easier to develop life from say, Silicon and liquid methane. If so, by projecting our own norm, we would be looking for/at completely the wrong places. e.g. Their goldylocks zone (where tempreture/pressure/gravity allows methane to exist in solid/Liquid/vapour form just like ours allow water to exists as ice/water/steam on the same planet) would be completely different. For all we know, for the majority of denizens in the Galaxy, our Goldylocks zone is a "dead zone" to them.

[@haroldnowak2042]

No. Rerun life again on Earth and your expectation, based on how life develops and evolves, will give you nothing like what we have now. That is the expectation based on the science of life. Mass extinctions partly show you how things work. Life's evolution is a stochastic process more than anything else.

[@carloshonestopinions]

Thank you for another fascinating video. The reality is that the reason we have not found other similarly intelligent life to us is that we have not been looking nearly long enough. We have barely surveyed the nearest stars, only discovering planets around them in the last 30 years. And our knowledge of prerecorded history is equally limited and ever evolving.

[@calessel3139]

As far as I have seen, it was H.P. Lovecraft who first came up with the concept of an ancient advanced earth based civilization that had gone extinct long before mankind arose. I believe as far back as the 1920 he mentions the technologically advanced creatures 'The Old Ones' and 'Fungi from Yuggoth' in his writings about such civilizations. The only difference being these were alien colonizations that didn't evolve on earth.

[@ambustio9807]

There were the flying polyps native to earth and eldar things that colonised earth if I remember right. They also probobly created humanity as a lab test

[@DutchFurnace]

Wait what? The story of Atlantis, THE "ancient advanced civilization of "super humans/beings" with unbelievable/unrecognizable technology, who have gone extinct, and mostly forgotten, before the current age of man" was already a surviving legend like 2500 years ago.

[@calessel3139]

@@DutchFurnace I think the difference here is that Atlantis is a semi-religious Greek myth that deals with an ancient human civilization that existed several thousand years before the Greek classical period. Yes the story has been around for several thousand years as Plato tells it. By contrast the video focuses on the modern concept of a non-human, or possibly alien, species which evolved into an advanced industrial society that went extinct tens or hundreds of millions of years ago. As mentioned before, the former is essentially a religious tale, while the latter is scientific speculation. So in this regard H.P. Lovecraft was the first to invent the base for this modern idea, at least as far as I've read.

[@Sirinxa]

I thought the first ones were the ancient Indian texts, Vedas, etc. (I don't remember the names, I have a very bad memory)

[@GodofLovers]

I feel like stories like this are based on a sliver of truth, that inspired a story based on possibly real past events. Lost in time, for the most part.

[@howellerOU812]

Vary interesting you mentioned an ice age possibly erasing all evidence of a previous intelligence. I remember a Russian expedition finding incredibly small artifacts like coils of metals and other items buried several meters down. Almost all of which had to be seen under a microscope. I wonder if those deposits were the ground up remains of a previous intelligence. If a previous intelligence was just a LITTLE smarter, perhaps they decided NOT to use plastics, or never had the opportunity, since all those oil deposits were deposited much later.

[@imwelshjesus]

No, they were proven to be the fart remains of the baby jesus.

[@BrodyLuv2]

I was going to mention the same thing. An extremely strange find 🤷

[@Alondro77]

One thing: gold artifacts. Those would last for eons. Processed rhodium or palladium would also not change. So, if a different intelligent lifeform did exist, it could not have gone much past early Stone Age tech. By the time you reach Bronze Age tech, there's intricate jewelry which would still be around today.

[@phoenixsixxrising]

True, maybe a prior intelligence actually figured out that they should probably NOT hyper-polute their only suitable home, so there isn't a lot of aberrations in the geological record

[@peppermintgal4302]

Not to be a buzzkill about the spirals, but they aren't quite as small as is popularly claimed, they're near a rocket test site, (and its common to test nanoparts in rocketry because they have so many use cases there,) and methodologies for testing the age of metals were not available when these were found. The estimate provided by the researcher who discovered them was for the strata they were associated with, but there's many ways they could've ended up there. They are *almost* certainly contemporary. I also would be skeptical that any species capable of industrialization would not blunder headfirst into polluting their home. It takes an opportunistic species to use tools, (see the few other tool using species --- like crows. Crows would absolutely pollute the environment if it served their purposes.) Industrialization is a necessary precursor to exploring chemistry in enough detail to know the dangers *of* pollution. The chance a species would simply not despite being industrialized is very small. It certainly wouldn't be a matter of intelligence. The only way I can imagine it happening is because of different priorities or culture.

[@pfcparts7728]

Since stars are so far away from us that it takes their light thousands if not millions of years to reach me at that moment, I always wondered if there were aliens thousands of years ago that looked up at our star and wondered the same thing.

[@PoorlyMadeSweater]

This is the most likely answer. The universe is probably brimming with life, we have ourselves as a proof of concept. The problem is the likelihood that one intelligent species has the technology to transmit a signal and another species has the technology to receive the signal, and both do so at just the right time so that one hears the other...is very low. Billions of civilizations could have evolved, broadcasted, and died before we even invented the radio. Civilizations broadcasting right now might not reach us until long after we are extinct.

[@Blazeww]

They have ancient stories of UFOs, ancient paintings of ships fighting in the sky... Enoch tells what they are...

[@dbsti3006]

There could very well be a child and the father on another planet out in their yard pointing this direction and wondering if life exists. Their telescopes may have detected Jupiter and Saturn but not the rocky world's yet. Perhaps their tech isn't where ours is yet. Speculation on this subject is actually quite fun.

[@rajbhattacharya4427]

Why would aliens waste precious time and millions of years just to meet up with a bunch of people that are so stupid they don't even know what gender they are anymore?

[@LinksQuest]

@@Blazeww it only attempts to explain what they thought they knew. What about the possible Alien life that they didn’t know existed. There could be hundreds of thousands of life forms from very different locations and very different origins.

[@cedartheyeah.justyeah.3967]

There's so many things I've learned from this channel that are so terrifying and amazing at the same time. There is a black hole that beats like a human heart. Venus may have had a possibility of life, but its own geology turned it into hell. The sun may be the only star which has let life exist around it, and even if it's not, our own brains may be an anomaly in the universe.

[@otomo129]

Whomever taught you all those "mays" also stole your brain...

[@cedartheyeah.justyeah.3967]

@@otomo129 I don't know what I was on four months ago...

[@firstnamelastname9215]

Nothing is terrifying. A car can kill us. Why be scared of anything? This shit is cool and for all we know we are just cells in a living organism. The black hole could be something’s b hole

[@jwhippet8313]

Even if our brains aren't an anomoly, all the cultural bits that led to advanced technology could be. How long would it have taken us to reach space if ww2 never happened? How long would it have taken the pygmies to reach space if they were the only culture on the planet?

[@sunspot42]

It's an interesting theory I first heard about around 20 years ago, the idea that a civilization or civilizations could have evolved before us on Earth. Relatively modern land based life forms have been around for over 300 million years now. Our ancestors, the synapsids, diverged from reptiles around 325 million years ago. It's certainly possible that sometime between 325 million years ago and the Permian-Triassic extinction event 251 million years ago - a 74 million year span even longer than the period between the extinction of the dinosaurs and now - an intelligent synapsid evolved capable of developing civilization and some kind of technology. 251 million years is a *long* time, and even if they had technology somewhat like ours, a bunch of that might not be detectable anymore. Especially if their civilization remained mostly isolated to a land mass largely separated from Pangea, one that potentially might not even exist anymore, having since been either subducted or uplifted by plate tectonics and subsequently eroded away. The closer in time the theoretical civilization is to our own and the longer it persisted for, the less likely it is to have remained undetected until now. There simply hasn't been enough time to erase traces of items like nuclear fallout or microplastics, assuming they developed technology along the same lines we developed it. But that's an assumption and one that we don't actually know the validity of. It's entirely possible a civilization arose with a radically different technological development than our own, possibly due to the innate nature of the creatures themselves or the environment their civilization developed in. For example, if the civilization arose on an island continent like Australia or Antarctica, they might not have had access to the kind of resources that facilitated the development of our kind of metallurgy. Humans are also predatory and prone to warfare, but it's certainly possible that intelligence developed among herbivorous herd animals, who in turn developed technologies quite different from our own because of differing evolutionary pressures. If they didn't develop plastics or nuclear weapons, or made extremely limited use of such technologies, and were relatively geologically isolated to land masses that don't exist anymore, having been subducted or eroded away (or currently covered by glaciation), they could be very difficult to detect. Imagine a civilization that developed genetic engineering before discovering synthetic plastics, or that used cross-laminated timber and natural glues for construction instead of concrete and steel. That could be really difficult to detect after just tens of millions of years. Of course, this also raises an interesting point - if such a civilization did exist, what became of it? If they were technologically advanced enough to be responsible for those temperature spikes we see in the fossil record for example, you'd expect them to leave behind some other traces. And if they were that sophisticated, would climate change entirely wipe their civilization and them out? This brings up the intriguing possibility that such a civilization still exists, and is so technologically sophisticated that they remain completely hidden to us, perhaps having passed beyond the technological singularity tens or hundreds of millions of years ago. They could be some kind of genetically engineered microscopic biological computer-based civilization now, busily going about their day-to-day business completely unobserved and unrecognized by humans, utilizing some form of quantum communications we can't intercept or even detect. The "aliens" may already be here.

[@poloska9471]

Great comment, I think it would be arrogant and egotistical, or in other words, very human of us to go around thinking we are the only ones ever everywhere… our crummy little civilization has been around for a little fart of time compared to the geological timescales life itself has existed at least on the Earth, and if we consider this point, life has persevered through so much on Earth, so many changes and extremes, and was born in a supposedly VASTLY different Earth than the one we recognize today… so it’s entirely possible and even LIKELY that this universe is full of life and that intelligence is a rare but existing in other places trait of life… I mean, we look for aliens by listening to radio signals… that limits us to about 10,000 light years of spacetime and 10,000 years of time in the past during which this civilization has to not only exist but also be using extremely powerful radio broadcasting for us to hear a single signal… looking at that and saying “oh, we haven’t heard anything definitive yet” when considering not only the extremely limited range we are listening to, and the tens of assumptions based off of our own civilization we put into SETI (such as the tiny minuscule portion of the frequencies we even listen to based on mathematical assumptions made through observing our own radio standards), and combined with all the other factors, we are searching for a tiny pin 📌 WITH a tiny pin 📌 in an ocean of hay larger than the size of Earth itself… that is the reality, AND we have only been doing this for only like 70-ish years if not less… so for us humans to go and claim “nawhhh man we are the only ones! Just look at us and how special we are!” is so diabolically unsupported in the reality of the cosmos that we might as well claim ourselves to be non-intelligent if we are to claim ourselves the true “owners of the universe”… to claim something like this is almost as bogus as claiming we are the end-all-be-all of the universe… which is so hilarious if we think about the fact that our entire existence is not even visible by the space probe that has barely even left our tiny solar system and which will take 70,000 years to reach the nearest star system… I mean… come on lol. We are DEFINITELY not alone in a universe comprised of something like a quintillion star systems, which almost all have multiple orbiting planets and follow the same physics and chemistry as our own solar system… it would literally not surprise me if there is a different human civilization somewhere out there in the great expanse that evolved completely separately simply due to chance… I mean, roll the dice enough times and you are bound to land on the same combination of factors our Earth landed on… then do this for billions of years with a quintillion stars, if that is even a correct figure and it isn’t even more than that. Somewhere out there as I am typing this, a strange little alien frog is chilling in a warm pool of water watching the alien version of aurora borealis, and then the alien equivalent of a drunk driver drives through its little pool of water ruining its bath.

[@logicbehind8653]

@@poloska9471 @sunspot42: Thanks for your commentsvery interesting analyses!

[@tonyppe]

we can barely detect now, the civilisations that existed in south america prior to Columbus a few hundred years ago.

[@unnamedchannel1237]

Didn’t get past the third line

[@matt92hun]

There are also conspiracy theories like this. One I remember was called out of place artifacts and talked about ancient nuclear wars and what not.

[@kingvinoda3896]

I like how Dr. Who is what inspires scientists to actually look into these out there concepts instead of just dismissing them without a second thought.

[@gyrogearloose1345]

Dr. Who?

[@CmdrPinkiePie]

If any species had evolved to a certain level (say like our early agricultural civilizations) but did not advance very far past that, it could be impossible for us to even know they had been there at all.

[@mikkokarjalainen6480]

Not really. Finding a dinosaur, with stone tools, ring in a finger or any kind of bracelet around the neck, would definitely still be there within the rock. Sure, they might not have used such items, but anything artificial would have been found already. If they used organic tools, like sticks used by monkeys, that would have been gone already. But that's no civilization either.

[@expendablewater7474]

I believe the moon Gravitational effect of rising the sea levels up and down half a meter plays a Huge part on how life formed

[@SchoolforHackers]

Good thought: all that constant washing and turnover.

[@HattySav]

Don't you know? The moon isn't real!

[@taintbrush237]

The moon is interesting, nasa found deposits of titanium on the surface and BROKE a few drill bits trying to sample the surface material during the Apollo days. Scientists claimed that the moon "rings like a bell" sometimes for hours after they dropped a heavy piece of equipment on the surface and measured its effect with seismometers. Some tests showing that it ringed for hours before stopping suggesting the moon is hollow or the dry composition of materials that make up the moon don't have the same sponge like sound deadening effect we see with earth quakes. Very odd phenomenon for just a "space rock"

[@barblc3202]

Beyond chemical markers, there will be a lot of weird unconformities in the stratigraphic record that are not naturally made - like all the removal of ground for levelling the ground for development, huge right-angled breaks in slope where we dug holes for building foundations to buildings, infilling of whole valleys with industrial waste which happened on many mined areas, etc.

[@xtatic5640]

I have watched for 5 years now Anton and recently I have been getting into archeology so seeing you also talk about its is very intruiging

[@unOrigiNik]

Really compelling conclusion regarding the links to sheikh, gerudo and twili. Keep it up 😊

[@dprphoto]

We have only been around for a short time so this could have happened many times plus there is Mars. When Mars was more habitable there may have been advanced life there and they could have come to Earth to do experiments and leave an outpost there. Perhaps we are ancestors of those explorers! Who knows? Another great video, Anton.

[@purplehaze658]

There was a civilisation on mars. There is also nuclear glass on the surface. Along with a lot more anomaly’s.

[@permanentvisitor2460]

@@purplehaze658 Trinitite? Unless it has decay products from a nuclear origin, it is fusion glass. Meteor strikes can form it pretty easily when there's almost no atmosphere to ablate the impact.

[@AtomicSquirrelHunter]

I think Rh Negative blood type is from Mars.

[@permanentvisitor2460]

@@AtomicSquirrelHunter no I'm not

[@jochem688]

@@permanentvisitor2460 2 hotspots of cesium 123 on mars...

[@anonymous_protagonist]

Harry Harrison, in his 1984 novel "West of Eden," also explored this subject. He proposed an ancient non-human civilization whose technology was organically-based, utilizing husbandry to genetically modify plants and animals to accomplish their wonders much in the same way we use metallurgy and chemistry.

[@freddynovember5842]

Thank you for that knowledge. I gotta check that out!

[@anonymous_protagonist]

@@freddynovember5842 You're welcome! I remember it being a good scfi read when I was teen. Hopefully it's withstood the test of time.

[@bobertjones2300]

Yes, this was the basis for the Flintstones.

[@andreibaciu7518]

if a civilization resembling ours ever existed we can assume it reached the same understanding of earth's geologic activity and would likely try to preserve artifacts outside its influence. Perhaps an ancient civilization has left such artifacts of its own somewhere in the vicinity of earth.

[@boiboiboi1419]

What would last 1 million year? I can only imagine Egypt and all the dispute over the spinx

[@PaulZyCZ]

@@boiboiboi1419 Voyager's golden plate, large strangely shaped boulder of gold in place of Fort Knox, some pyramids buried under all the sand, everything else would be like bones of hominids. Most of the modern civilization would disappear in centuries, if the humanity disappeared overnight. Some stone monuments would fare for millennia unless buried deep underground. Sphinx and her ancient Lioness hypothesis is good example of that.

[@reggienotorious6824]

They probably thought they’d still be here kinda like we do

[@ThePaulv12]

Maybe - UAPs are message beacons. When we have the tech to catch one then the secrets of the Silurian elder race will be revealed. Obviously I don't believe what I just wrote but it did occur to me LOL.

[@hipsig]

@@boiboiboi1419 Andrei is saying "somewhere in the vicinity of earth." On the moon, craters from more than 3 billion years ago can be identified as such because hardly any weathering occurs and there is currently no plate tectonics. On Mars scientists are baffled by a xenon isotope signature that can only come from nuclear fission explosions, completely different from nuclear fission reactions that occur in nature like the one example we are aware of on earth from a billion or so years ago. They think that these explosions on Mars may have occurred 300 million years ago (search brandenburg, mars, nukes). Who knows? Maybe "silurians" from earth might have had something to do with this?

[@dougsheldon5560]

Back in the 60's there was an episode of "Voyage to the bottom of the sea" episode that had that idea. Yes, I'm old

[@idyeditbymyself]

I’m not sure I buy into it, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility either. It’s always been a very interesting topic, and fun even just to think about.

[@bearcubdaycare]

I'm skeptical. The mass of my things (house, car, etc.) greatly exceeds my own mass. So, why would skeletons be fossilized, but no other material that an advanced society uses, many in prodigious quantities? Glaciation? Sure...in glaciated areas. But even if one's meaning prior to Snowball Earth, there are fossils from prior to then. Show me the ancient obelisk on the moon, then maybe.

[@scottabc72]

Of course we should be skeptical but keep in mind that fossilization only happens rarely and in very specific conditions, this is why Anton was pointing out that typically only one fossil is found for any 10000 year time period.

[@DrRyan82994]

humans have left evidence that will practically never go away until the end… maybe if they never got to our level

[@ethorii]

I agree. There would be some evidence of an advanced race from millions of years ago. Something metal or some fossil of a new species with useful appendages, like hands, and a large skull to body ratio, would have been found by now. We're the first. Amazing that we are here. 4 billion years of life and one truly aware and intelligent species. Not even that if the dino-killer rock hadn't hit.

[@bahramsalik8174]

satellites in high earth orbit and geostationary orbit remain there for hundreds of millions of years. We even put time capsule there for future species in case we go extinct. But we haven’t found any time capsules from other species there.

[@jimcurtis569]

Well thought out video. Our success in finding evidence of "intelligent" life out in the universe, or in Earth's past, may be dependent on letting go of our human centered, prejudiced definitions of "intelligence" and "civilization". Looking for evidence of cities, metal working, electronics, atomic technology, etc may be causing us to miss different evidence of other sentient beings. I don't know what that evidence would be, but then I'm only human. 😁

[@abhishekpas]

Our ancient Indian scriptures indicate we are the offspring of intelligent civilization from other planets.

[@menkros1]

No satellites, no advanced civilization.

[@Stevo1361]

I'm very pleased to see you covering this topic. The marvels of ancient megalithic structures featuring stones that weigh many hundreds of tonnes and which have been positioned with great accuracy and have often travelled many hundreds of kilometres from the quarry site have boggled my mind. How did these people who as far as we know had no electrical power, create these structures? What did they use for the structures, ropes and pulleys which supported and manipulated 1000 tonne stones? How did they carve sharp details and "perfect" angles into granite and the like with "soft" metals, sand and water? The conclusive theory is that what is left of these sites around the world is only a small portion and the end result of their "technology".

[@fuzzywumble]

Anton, once again you've filled my mind with wonderful questions I would have never thought to ask without your videos. You are a wonderful person and I love you to bits!

[@ugiswrong]

Gratuliere!!! Now DONATE TO UKRAINE if you really wanna simp. Donate again next paycheck.

[@jaykrizzle]

There's also probably a long term upward slope of encephalization (life in general becoming more intelligent over time) that acts as a foundational floor for any evolutionary spike in the intelligence attribute across clades. So I think it's logical that intelligent civilizations become more and more likely to arise the longer life is on a planet.

[@paulg3336]

Not really, brains are very expensive to maintain. If a species can exist without a large brain it will follow that evolutionary route. The most successful organisms on earth are bacteria and viruses

[@jaykrizzle]

@@paulg3336Yes thats a theory I'm aware of and think is more applicable to the path of an individual species than evolution of life overall. Brains are expensive, yet mammals are generally more intelligent than reptiles, which are generally more intelligent than amphibians, etc. Moreover, within a clade the trend is upward; the most intelligent representatives tend to be the later additions (Apes, corvids, varanids, manta rays). Therefore isnt the actual slope of life an upward one?

[@ethorii]

Intelligence is a clear advantage but the cost is a huge energy hungry brain. It must be barely possible to pay for such a brain and still survive or many mammals would have evolved high intelligence to outdo their rivals. I'd love to know what the change was in our ancestry that began the upward tick in our brain development. Was it walking on two legs? Was it controlling fire and pre-digesting our food by cooking it? Being forced to try new ways of living when the savanna dried out? Whatever it was it's obviously a one in a billion combination since it happened once.

[@ethorii]

@@jaykrizzle I see what you mean. But even the smartest animal is immeasurably less intelligent than us. We are freaks, obviously. No other animal is anywhere near competition with us for millions of years of evolution. The trend may be upward, but it's still relatively very simple intelligence everywhere but us, excepting maybe dolphins or porpoises.

[@Gyrae]

@@ethorii Mushrooms

[@stuffnuns]

The whole breadth of Archeology is undergoing quite a radical change, due to the many discoveries through our newest technologies like carbon dating and Lidar. There appears to be a Much older history of humankind than we assumed. The existence of civilization has been pushed back from 3k to over 20k years ago in just the last decade. It’s getting pushed back even more, as we make more discoveries of our Real history.

[@Ranzoe813]

The bible has been hard setting a certain date for as long as I can remember...about 12k years ago give or take 1k..

[@RadagastBrown420]

​@@Ranzoe813 The Bible is a book of fairy tales that has been edited and translated dozens of times.

[@alexiskiri9693]

​@@Ranzoe813 you really are on the wrong channel if you think 12k is the extent of life on earth.

[@alexiskiri9693]

Mitchel even people on google earth have been making new and unusual discoveries.

[@Ranzoe813]

@@alexiskiri9693 thats not what i stated noir is the op. If you want a "when modern man showed well thats about 190 to 250,000 years ago give or take..12k is the birth of civilization..something also i dont believe..just stating what most scholars and religious groups say is all...life on earth is several million years...im not sure im the one lost @ channels reading comprehension should be a priority if your calling ouy antons viewer's*

[@rowdysgirlalways]

Not only Dr. Who, but Andre Norton, who is one of my favorite authors; my respect for you has increased exponentially! And I already really respected you!

[@petrairene]

Yeah, just imagine that some raptor type dinosaurs were on the cusp of becoming human level intelligent just before the asteriod hit. To just be wiped off right before their civilisation had a chance to thrive.

[@TheJeremyKentBGross]

Raptors built the pyramids using advanced technology that didn't require hands to move super giant stones, obviously. But what you don't know is that some of them survive and secretly rule the world by disguising themselves as people. True story. 😄

[@robertschlesinger1342]

Very interesting and worthwhile video. The Silurian Hypothesis seems extremely unlikely on Earth, but such a sequence of evolved intelligent species may someday be discovered elsewhere. This search would be somewhat similar to one of the premises of the Galileo Project.

[@granolapancake]

What is the 'Galileo Project' that you are referencing?

[@danielburke911]

I don’t know, there have been plenty of species and lots of time for intelligent life to develop and die out. Humans have only been an actual civilization for a couple thousand years which is literally a fraction of a fraction of a second in terms of the overall timeline of the earth. Who is the say some sweet to the dinosaurs in develop technology and then wipe themselves out or some mammal species 50 million years ago could have become super smart And then wiped themselves out

[@therealb888]

I don’t see it being extremely unlikely but it is unlikely from what we know.

[@robertcartier5088]

There was also a "Star Trek: Voyager" episode that covered something similar. They encounter a species that are descendants of sentient dinosaurs on Earth... (The episode is called, "Distant Origin" Season 3 - Episode 23)

[@qjo]

I came to post the same thing, then I saw your post. It was a really good episode.

[@crabby7668]

Doctor Who did a similar thing with the silurians, believe it or not.

[@qjo]

@@crabby7668 I'm gonna go with, believe it. Not just because I've seen the episodes in question, but because Anton mentions this directly in the video.

[@crabby7668]

@@qjo oh OK thanks for pointing that out, I must have missed it somehow. Cheers

[@Brandon-mw8pk]

Not only that, the Voth were one of the most advanced species the Federation had ever encountered up to that point. Their technology made Voyager look like a toy. One of my favorite episodes, had to look it up but it's "Distant Origin"!

[@colinbarnard6512]

Star Trek Voyager- Distant Origin. Fantastic vid by Mr Petrov. Thank you very much!

[@daless3526]

I think the reason we haven't found signs of intelligent life is that regardless of how intelligent we think we are, we might be the morons of the galaxy and no one wants to interact with us or we so dumb that can't recognize something artificial when we are staring right at it. In no way do I believe we are alone in the universe or the galaxy.

[@patrickdurham8393]

There was an old reader's digest article that was rather tongue in cheek describing what archaeologists in the far future found while digging in a 1950s post-apocalyptic City and the trouble they were having identifying what they found. I wish I could find it again

[@LinksQuest]

I have the entire readers digest library. Do you remember about what year it was or any other stories in it or anything else about the issue?

[@ricf9592]

Old toilet bowls. Thats what they'll find.

[@tonydagostino6158]

It's interesting you mention the PETM. As incomplete as the geological record is Paleocene-Eocene and younger sediments are very well preserved and extremely well imaged. The continental shelves of North and South America, shallow seas like the North Sea, and similar areas are covered by multiple generations of seismic surveys produced by the oil industry and science. Those shelf deposits include the ancient coastlines which presumably would include coastal settlements, dare I say ancient port cities. These sediments aren't buried all that deep and have been penetrated by literally 100's of thousands of wells. Considering all the generations of geologists studying the Earth for hundreds of years it seems unlikely we've missed signs of an ancient technological civilization

[@NaatClark]

And yet we only just discovered accepted proof of humans in the Americas from 24,000 years ago in the 90's in Monte Verde, Chile. If you don't count the Blue Fish cave site(Personally I do) that was found in 1977 but only got radio carbon dated for a second time in like 2017. For all we think we know about the past we still don't even know how many archaic human species there were let alone what could've come before

[@ruthanneseven]

"Hundreds of years"? Not really that long. What scientists call 'proof' is debatable, imo. Religion got in the way of entrepreneurial scientific research for at least 1.5k years. Our ancient ancestors were far smarter than we give them credit for. Solar and lunar Gods don't sound so stupid, compared to the idea of a single, sexless conception of a human 2k years ago. There IS the matter of the ancient computer that was discovered in a shipwreck...

[@tonydagostino6158]

@@ruthanneseven Yes, Ruthanne, hundreds of years. Really. The "ancient computer" Antikythera device has been completely explained in terms of the tech of it's era. You need to keep up

[@tonydagostino6158]

@@NaatClark I give ancient humans plenty of credit so I'm not surprised there are artifacts 10's of 1000's of years old in N. America but the hypothesis is about ancient technological civilizations.

[@NaatClark]

@@tonydagostino6158 I now, I was just saying that we're still figuring out how advanced our own species was les than 50,000 years ago. It's the height of arrogance to assume we have a clear picture of what was going on 50,000,000 years back. Especially considering there's already bacteria evolving right now that are eating and digesting plastics. I'm not saying one way or the other(but I lean towards no Silurians, heavily) but that's because I don't believe there's enough evidence either way to make a firm decision.

[@johncouriermeh]

First of all I must say I do enjoy your channel Anton. However though, with the vast amount of stars in the whole universe and with the majority of those stars having planets within the goldilocks zone, it is very probable that there is life out there with a small amount becoming intelligent. This will mean that there must be a large amount of intelligent life, due to the fantastic size of the whole universe. Nobody should ever dismiss this.

[@johnbowman476]

Yes, it's quite arrogant of scientists to state because we have not seen any other intelligent life in the universe it does not exist.

[@52_Pickup]

I mean, the US government has already declassified footage of UFOs and other incredibly advanced ships that I cannot sit here and say are from humanity. Aliens have to be real LOL

[@kashmiria1461]

@@52_Pickup Just over a 100 years ago, we couldnt even tell that there was germs in the air. Whose to say that the earth we live in, is not inhabited by a civilization out of sight from ours in another parrallel existence? Or even somewhere in the sea...we have only explored 5% of the Earths waters.

[@cameronspence4977]

@@52_Pickup they dont have to be

[@jlt131]

and the non-existence of intelligent life before us here on earth doesn't necessarily mean there won't be elsewhere - even if life works that way, in cycles, becoming intelligent then reverting back to square one... well someone had to be the first cycle - perhaps it is us!

[@iamslf]

i feel finding significant evidence of a past technologically advanced civilization on earth would be a lot more exciting than making contact with life on another planet.

[@sbrazenor2]

It should at least be more accessible.

[@Vicus_of_Utrecht]

Earth harbors the first instances, or last vestiges, of Life in the Universe.

[@tely5]

I have long thought that if we ever found hard evidence of UFO's (UAP's) to be of intelligent, non-human origin, that the more likely candidate would be some hidden remnant of a past civilization occasionally inspecting or touring the Earth, rather than something that journeyed here across the vastness of interstellar space.

[@Vicus_of_Utrecht]

@@tely5 Hard to accept that no other Life other than us ever left Earth's surface. The "lizard people" could easily be dinos from 65 MILLION YEARS AGO coming back. But that's just me.

[@Jayme_Roy]

I think both are in plain site.

[@brucemibus9523]

I firmly believe that we are not the only intelligent life to develop in the universe. We could be self destructive and die out within only 200 years of development of radio communication. This means that we are unlikely to exist at the same effective time (including the delay of transmission between remote galaxies) . It is possible that we have missed the communications from previous life forms, as they were before us or after us . No overlap in time means that we will never know answers to the intelligence questions.

[@markjackson5806]

I agree, pondering ideas like the Anthropic Cosmological Principal or the Rare Earth Hypothesis do tend to show how technically evident intelligence may be very rare. However the probability of any of these (temporary?) Intelligences ever detecting each other in the vastness of spacetime must be orders of magnitude less likely. I can't see any conflict between the idea that there have been/will be other intelligences elsewhere and the idea that none of them will ever prove it.

[@avon8794]

There are some other options than extinction. I think the most likely is that they either stopped sending out signals, or they haven't reached us yet because they developed too recently and are too far away. If other intelligent life exists they likely took a long time to evolve, as we did. We could even be among the early ones. A Dyson sphere is also an interesting option which would make them nearly impossible to detect without sending out signals. All in all, knowing that life exists on earth, it seems much more probable that it can exist other places as well, rather than earth being the only one. The basic building blocks are there. But I think it is extremely unlikely an alien race would travel far away, just doesn't seem worth the effort, at least not until the sun is about to explode. I think it is more likely that the population would drop down to a pretty low amount, makes more sense as it would give more resources to each individual. I think it is likely this will happen for humans too, and there is a good reason to believe this. Up until this moment in time, because of how many we are now, you are more likely to be born a human now than at any point earlier in the history of the human race. So we aren't necessarily "extremely lucky" to live in this age of wealth and technology. The problem is, if the human race continues to grow and live for billions of years, the probability of being born later would be much higher, and we would be pretty unlucky after all. Therefore, the most likely possibility is that the human race either goes extinct, or the population goes drastically down. The optimistic option is that we might not be that far from immortality, in which case the need to create new humans goes drastically down. If the human race goes down to about 100,000, and the life span increases to 1000+ years, then even if it continues to exist for billions of years the probability of being born later becomes pretty low. I see this as more likely than going extinct, though global warming could contribute to drastically lower the human population.

[@wpherigo1]

Great vein of thought. There has been much more use of this in Science Fiction than you may have realized and is certainly where the scientists got the ideas they are only recently researching. Also worth mentioning is the persistent idea of lost civilizations and technologies (often to explain ancient architectural features we don’t understand, and thus think more primitive peoples couldn’t have created.).

[@petervilla6228]

Firs time visiting this channel and I liked it, you just got yourself a new subscriber. Thanks for the work and dedication 👍👍👍👍👍

[@patrickradvanyi6390]

this is an interesting idea that i also thought of a few years ago when i saw a dinosaur documentary and they kept talking about their lack of intelligence. at the time i thought of a way i might be able to prove it and resorted to trying to find the remains of a modern city. I realized that all the concrete would turn to sediment, the wood would decompose, the plastics would probably breakdown or oxidize, and the metals would all corrode. based on this i tried to find a mine site that had iron, copper, and aluminum with gold or other precious metals as a bonus. I chose these because they are all used in almost everything today and the oxides are quite heavy so they are more likely to stay in one place, and a civilization that could control fire would probably discover quite quickly how to smelt ore. I ran into a dead end when i couldnt find many maps of mines and the ones i could find only told me their main output. this is as far as i got with my limited resources and time but i would love to get in contact with someone who might have more resources to explore it further. if this helps or inspires anyone else please feel free to use any of it

[@Zorro9129]

If a house or car got buried before it had the chance to decay, wouldn't it be preserved like a fossil might?

[@patrickradvanyi6390]

@@Zorro9129 doubt it. oxygen is everywhere even in soil and rock. over millions of years it would break down and rain water running through the soil would speed it up. the only way i see it getting preserved is in something like ice or tar. remember we are talking about 65 000 000 years, most cars start rusting after 10-20 and are usually un usable after 50-100

[@peppermintgal4302]

Not necessarily true. Batholiths and similar structures last a LONG time. Structures like hydroelectric dams would, as well. They'd also leave a lot of sediment around them to the degree they do break down, (and if they get buried in other sediments, they might not break down really at all,) and these sediments would be very distinctly unnatural. Some wood could end up fossilizing, retaining any artificial forms. (Fossil wood does exist, and even from the time wood probably first *evolved.*) Plastics are an unknown, but they would probably decompose eventually, though its possible they could fossilize, as well. Metals don't all corrode at all, gold in particular is almost entirely chemically inert and will last forever. Some sediments mineralize before ever seeing rainwater. Some places are deserts, and some deserts remain so for long periods of time. Sediments buried under lava often end up dry as bones long enough, as well. The thing about fossilization is that it only requires something to last long enough that when it does corrode or breakdown, the sediment around it has solidified enough that it leaves just empty space, which water eventually fills in with minerals, which, being... rock... last virtually forever. (Oldest rocks are billions upon billions of years old.) The major thing is, a species as *capable* as us of industrializing might simply never do so. It takes some very specific discoveries that are statistically not terribly likely, hence why it took us so long. Once you make these basal discoveries, technological advancement can go off the rails, but before then, you're stuck.

[@Theutus2]

Brian Foerester, Graham Hancock, and others discuss lost civilization frequently. They have some good videos of ancient megalithic sites, like Macu Pichu, where they show newer subpar construction by the Incan lain ontop of masterful megalithic construction. Pretty interesting stuff.

[@SoManyRandomRamblings]

Side note.....being that oil is not a renewable resource, and besides being around for us to use (meaning they didn't use it much, if at all)....it takes time for FOSSIL fuels to be created, meaning depending on how long ago the other civilization was they may not have even had it as an option. Then when looking for those specific metals, that is based on our use/priorities with them. I am not well versed in each of those metals (do any require something that would need a petroleum product?) thus eliminating them. Then....what if that ancient civilization had more respect for the planet...so they built their houses out of more natural items (like the Hobbits or Dwarves....or shoot even the humans nowadays who love those "earthship" type of structures) then the metals used wouldn't be as abundant if they aren't building tall structures that need large support beams. So less metal in each possible area for us to locate. Then we also need to take into account the changes in the planet itself (i.e. plate tectonics, sea level changes) and what chunks of earth would have been quality places to build and survive back then, but are still accessible to us nowadays. So your available options to look changes according to the timeline as well. Because let's say, Pangaea (just for example) was when you thought they might have lived......weather simulations have shown that the center of a super large land mass wouldn't be very hospitable, so then you would have to track the location of those ancient coastlines, not just in movement across the globe and sea level, but also if subduction zones may have literally swallowed the evidence (even ancient zones that may no longer be moving so we don't realize they were once). And as you know Pangaea wasn't the only shape our landmasses once held.....so you would have to track each hospitable zone through time to see where they would be now and then conduct your checks for metals. And then to throw a really wild wrench in the works.....let's pretend they saw some apocalyptic event on the horizon and (since we do know that solar systems and galaxies were closer in the past) what if they saw a way to a planet they deemed a safer world, or decided to live on ships forever...and as such used every piece of available metal to construct ships to get them there.....using what is already around them would be quicker than just mining new stuff, especially if they were facing an existential crisis. They wouldn't want to waste time/effort nor resources if facing an apocalypse, especially if they thought they had a legitimate solution. And i could see people be willing to sacrifice their buildings to accomplish something on that grand a scale as saving a population. After all any modern humams who lived during the major wars back in the day have tales of the government taking all items that had certain materials they deemed they needed and people having to change up how they lived life sometimes completely, since they were suddenly without a lot of different things...and that was "just a war" imagine if it was a world ending event they were trying to avoid, what they would be willing to go without. Especially if their species didn't fight amongst themselves as much as we do and they collectively agreed to band together and use everything to escape the apocalyptic disaster they saw coming......then that type of situation would make locating them through metal deposits even harder as then it would only be the most remote or most difficult to move/disassemble areas that had metal left or bits too small to bother smelting for the escape vessels. Or the small fringe groups that didn't want to leave/contribute. Making the possible locations not only smaller in size but possibly in locations less likely to be considered. Also let's say any groups that did leave decided to move things to a different location after the mass exodus, they the dispersal pattern could be really strange. So many things make the search from our end more difficult and less obvious. I have also wondered the same wonderings as you have......but no geological expertise here, just kinda good at seeing alternative possibilities.

[@adyatv]

Awesome Anton! Your mission to keep abreast and share research findings in space & sciences with at least a million of us on a daily basis is commendable. You bring knowledge, peace & 'serinity' to me everyday! Even during an 'expansive' topic like this one, you did not overlook mentioning, 'slime' one of life's extrordinary masterpieces of evolutionary achievement, one often overlooked but a cornerstone for survival and protection against a hostile environment and making possible the very preservation and further evolution of life. From the most ancient Archea - Halomucin which is beyond comprehension 9159 amino acids long to relatively homologus mammalian mucin, this one single protein has been key to survival of almost every living thing. Forget the mystery of all else, forget multiple layers of civilizations, just the mystery how such a complex molecule came to be, by trial and error, in such an ancient lifeform at the dawn of our Solar system is beyond comprehension of the sum total of all human knowledge and understanding. What are the odds of just random stringing of 9000+ amino acids in exact order, the statistical probability doesn't make any real world sense in the time the universe has been in supposed existence! What da Math??

[@whatdamath]

I love slime!

[@bertrc2569]

Also, the film 'planet of the apes' was premised on a short term wipe out and re alignment of civilisation. A scenario that could play out easily and often.

[@fractalelf7760]

Given the worlds population crisis it is about to turn into Planet of the Apes in about 100 years.

[@nightglide_]

@@fractalelf7760💀

[@kebab1535]

Would be awesome if there was intelligence life before us humans. But where al the bones, fossils etc? There are bones from dinosaurs en plants but not from the Silurians?

[@wdiggs1744]

Just wanted to say that I appreciate and love your videos In my opinion you're up there with pbs space time and scishow space Keep up the intriguing content and keep moving forward

[@anthonyberent4611]

Two thoughts; if intelligent life caused hyperthermals it seems surprising that we found easily accessible fossil fuels. One sign we will leave behind that would be difficult to explain without assuming some technology is a massive redistribution of species between continents, for example the introduction of placental mammals into Australia. This should remain obvious in the fossil record even if no humans are found

[@michaeljarvis5489]

If there is a civilization eons in the future and it is not continuous with ours, the fossil record by then will be confusing at least.

[@vasimir3183]

In the study they take your “fossil fuel” issue into consideration, they determined back in the Carboniferous era there would have been sufficient fossil fuels available to lifeforms *back then* to generate energy from. That’s a different source than we use today

[@hecanseeme8210]

Rare earth hypothesis is just silly. The fact that bacteria on the outside of the space station can survive leads me to believe that life is a law of nature. I.e. life will exist where ever there’s a niche. Doesn’t really matter how the bacteria got there, the simple fact it can live in a vacuum is really all you need to know.

[@haroldnowak2042]

@@hecanseeme8210 The bacteria on the outside of the space station that survived bears no similarity to the original life forms that started on Earth. These bacteria are the result of billions of years of evolution and that is the reason that they could survive. I have no idea if the original life forms that started on Earth could survive in space but I rather doubt it.

[@everything777]

​@@hecanseeme8210watch Cool Worlds channel video called something like "why we might be alone in the universe" and you may change your level of certainly

[@_4200h]

South Park was so ahead of it’s time lmaooo 🎶crab people, crab people, walk like crab, talk like people, crrrraaaaab people🎶

[@jonaslasater4784]

i love you

[@KevDaly]

If it was a technological civilisation in some way like our own you'd expect that it would modify its biosphere - for instance, we couldn't hope to find evidence of cities or technology over such a vast period of time, but we wouldn't expect large predators and so on to be abundant where they had been. But then the fossil record imposes an arbitrary sampling bias. Some species of animals and plants might show evidence of domestication (in both form and distribution) but once again they might be absent from the fossil record.

[@nophoto6875]

Not a bad idea. Bones last awhile and if there could be found an observable change to bone structure over a short period of time that was different from other similar species in the area, without any reason to discern that the environment in that particular area where they were found had changed, you may have something.

[@Yezpahr]

Lystrosaurus could have been pets, they were so abundant haha. This scientific paper serves a purpose of deduction. Evidence doesn't always match a prewritten theory, but here's the kicker: Humans are so disastrous to this planet that we show up in any and all graphs as an extinction event. Modified biosphere / atmosphere / genetics / weather / food / waste. All of this is affecting the planet more than anyone can imagine. We killed it already.

[@peppermintgal4302]

Well, I would argue that a *technological* civilization would *definitively* leave evidence of cities and technology over such a vast period of time. We know hydroelectric dams, for instance, will stay standing for untold millenia if we suddenly disappear, and their remains, when they do finally collapse, will definitely get buried and then become preserved virtually forever in rock. The things are essentially akin to small batholiths. And the turbines will probably end up entombed in rocks, they'll stick around for a looooong time.

[@wizzolo]

I believe if we are looking for advanced technologicl civilizations, we should focus on the time periods coinciding with mass extinctions.

[@ThistlesGarden]

Reminds me of when Dr. Philip Currie came to speak after winning the Roy Chapman Andrews Society Distinguished Explorer Award for 2022. One question he was asked was what dinosaur he most wanted to excavate, and his response was a complete Troodon (Troodon formosus) skeleton ideally at a nesting site. The species is only known from a handful of partial skeletons but appears to have had a proportionally large brain and partially opposable thumbs. Finding a complete skeleton has the potential to upset everything we know about dinosaur evolution.

[@regex74]

I have a very hard time believing there would be zero evidence of another technological civilization before us. And to the Fermi Paradox, even if Earth is a one-in-a-quadrillion event that would indicate something like 10^7 Earth events in the universe at the very least.

[@SUHIHJsdb]

If we disappeared right now, after about 100 thousand years there’d be no sign of us. Look at Chernobyl, after about only 40 years natures already retaken it. Add a couple asteroids into the mix and it would almost guarantee our small footprint disappearing forever

[@regex74]

There's bound to be some sort of chemical signature or indication in the geologic column, especially from a civilization of our technological level. Not to mention fossils. Quite frankly thought experiments like the Silurian hypothesis are just fuel for conspiracy theorists and their Younger Dryas fetishes. I don't think they should be paid any mind unless real evidence can be shown.

[@neverlistentome]

Distributed through a 92 billion light year wide observable universe, and spread over a 13 billion year timeline. That puts 9200 light years between civilizations, and who knows when...

[@M167A1]

The old line "there are lies, damn lies and statistics" seems appropriate. We're just going to have to wait on astronomy to advance to a point where we can at least make reasonable guesses instead of statistical thought experiments. Although at the moment as much as it pains me, I'm thinking rare earth looks quite plausible.

[@barquerojuancarlos7253]

Yeah, it does seem early in the day to make conclusions about ET life. After all, we've studied just over 5000 planets thus far and in our galaxy alone there are estimated 100B planets, according to NASA. 5000 divided by 100B equals a rather small fraction.

[@christopherdaffron8115]

For a possible cause of the PETM, I would go with the large asteroid that we have no evidence for rather than the dinosaur civilization that we have no evidence for.

[@mikekeenan8450]

Asteroid or maybe volcanic activity. But if it were a previous civilization 55 million years ago that was big enough to cause that amount of climate change, I'd expect that they'd have used up the fossil fuels we're burning now.

[@christopherdaffron8115]

@@mikekeenan8450 Good Point. Although some of the fossil fuels we are consuming today did not exist yet 55 million years ago.

[@kennethfeagins1414]

If we are indeed the only intelligent life in the universe, I feel we have a duty to spread life. Not in the harmful ways we use our planet today, but to seed for evolution to continue.

[@DrMackSplackem]

I think we should regardless. Every other intelligent species ought to do the same, wherever they may be. One property shared by all successful forms of life is the alteration of their physical environments in the interest of their future prosperity, and this is as true of bacteria as it is for humankind. Overall, the effect of the spreading of life into novel niches is a net positive, and I don't buy the idea of mankind (or any other organism for that matter) as some vaguely-defined scourge plaguing an otherwise pristine planet.

[@michaelmcconnell7302]

I think we should spread intelligence. Von Neumann probes or something similar.

[@HomeyDaClown]

Like how people feel the "need" to reproduce and just have offspring to extend their legacy? Tell me more about why this species should spread its cancer to other places?

[@thirdlawofmotion]

People need to wake up if you think we're alone.

[@phoenixsixxrising]

At the very least, once we confirm a planet is sterile, we should design new lifeforms that will thrive in that particular environment, that way, even when we go extinct, we will know there is other life out there carrying the torch for the future!

[@AuntLizzie]

When we discover remains such as at Goblecki Tepi that take our own history back thousands of years, it is so exciting, and I have no doubt we may one day find proof of much much earlier intelligent life, as you say, millions of years ago. Thanks for a great in-depth discussion on this subject.

[@commodoor6549]

The thing is that we've already found signs of life from millions of years ago, and there are no signs of a species that fits the description of an intelligent being.

[@wingedhussar1453]

​@@commodoor6549where

[@bspenn]

Anton, your stuff is great! If you want an interesting twist on this notion, read The Many-Colored Land: Saga of Pliocene Exile by Julian May. It's a great read that posits one-way time travel to the Pliocene.

[@joh22293]

One of my all-time favourites.

[@coweatsman]

I disagree with Anton saying there are only 2 alternatives to intelligent alien life, none or everywhere. I take the middle between unique and common. Being rare and short lived.

[@Emprivan]

Well also, why does it have to be space aliens when more than likly they are from here and are still here, just at some point went deep underground or the sea for the free energy and not get hit by mountains from space all the time. Maybe they would have found a way to travel around using the magnetic field lines. I will say The Ant, lizard, and star peoples were real and maybe still around.

[@coweatsman]

@@Emprivan No such thing as "free energy". All energy utilisation comes with a thermodynamic tax.

[@TheGeenat]

@@coweatsman thanks God 👍🏼

[@Zorro9129]

Why would intelligent life be short-lived? Intelligent life by its nature is better suited to adapting and persisting in adverse conditions. Even with the natural disasters that we aren't prepared for, civilization might collapse but some of humanity would survive. And if intelligent life achieves interstellar travel, it's essentially unkillable except through deliberate means by some greater power.

[@Emprivan]

@@coweatsman Oh, guess they would have to pay for geothermal connections. I mean if it was like a Steampunk underworld. Workers wearing white overalls that don't get dirty.

[@sparkmanuk]

Anton really fires these videos out!

[@Gort-Marvin0Martian]

Mary Alice, "Andre" Norton. She was the first science fiction I ever read back in the early 60's. Followed by Asimov. Who could forget the Foundation Trilogy. Very interesting conjecture in the hypothesis. As we say here in Texas; Y'all be safe.

[@Adaminthematrix]

I love your channel bro. Your such a solid human being. I also love science, space, and the possibilities. Thank you

[@davesabra4320]

Silurain. I recall reading a book about Lemuria in 1986. A time when I believed everything that was published !

[@SchoolforHackers]

Thongor?

[@davesabra4320]

@@SchoolforHackers nice but not that. I found it. Lost Continents: The Atlantis Theme in History, Science, and Literature (1954) by L. Sprague de Camp.

[@yeroca]

The Silurian hypothesis finally provides a theory for the existence of the Yugo. I always had a feeling that it was designed by dinosaurs for dinosaurs.

[@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999]

What is the Yugo

[@SeanBZA]

@@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999 The car in the picture.....

[@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999]

@@SeanBZA what picture???

[@ericpode6095]

@@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999 I think he means at 16:10 They were made in Yugoslavia in the late1970s up to the early 2000s

[@drmartinyoung3761]

Another excellent video. My broad take on all of this is that we are applying all these ideas, theories and insights to one reality, which itself we cannot understand or explain with any confidence. And we can safely assume the existence of ‘other’ realities, other forms of consciousness, which are easily accessed by psychedelics or other forms of spirituality like meditation. Other parallel realities or universes if you like … I don’t believe we will find the answers to the questions posed in this video until we consider all realities, ie that our universe is far stranger than the little bit of it that we can see or even conceptualise, and that the questions have to be far broader. And perhaps we cannot even begin to understand the answers because we are simply not intelligent enough.

[@SG-tx1fz]

Unfortunately "physical evidence" is needed to prove any of this so even if people have this kind of experiences and have had contact with other beings for thousands of years trugh meditation/astral projection/any other esoteric practice it won't be accepted in society unless someone finds a way to somehow measure or/and bring evidence.

[@itwasaliens]

I cant believe im hearing this for the first time. Ive always wondered why no one seemed interested in entertaining the idea that intelligent life may have existed in the distant past.

[@craigpardy6204]

I'm more surprised that this is the first time you heard of this.

[@mickwilson99]

Two related sci-fi thought-starters: "No Connection" by Isaac Asimov (1950s?) and the "West of Eden" pair of books by Harry Harrison. Both worth finding.

[@edsloan8535]

Asimov was a pedo.

[@abelis644]

Lol just wrote the same thing!!! I still have my Eden trilogy... I can never get rid of books...

[@johngulsen8636]

It seems to me we should be discussing life capable of developing technology and not just intelligent. If Silurians existed and had technology equal or better than our own, the evidence will be found on the moon. The moon has no erosion by my understanding as some features are billions of years old and still there.

[@kunalsingh4418]

That's not really necessary. If we had not had some extremely intelligent people like Newton Einstein etc, intelligent as we are we probably would not have made it into space. Or maybe they simply might not have discovered flight the way Wright Brothers did. That doesn't mean they were less intelligent than humans. Maybe they developed in the direction of underground or underwater civilizations. And since we have really only gone above and not below, we never really developed the tech that they were probably using and are thus incapable of detecting it. It's equally possible imo. And similarly many other similar ideas. It just makes it extremely hard to guess if an intelligent lifeform really did exist in the past.

[@halfbee7886]

Good point, although some asteroids might have been responsible for the destruction of those evidence on the Moon.

Satellites are so incredibly vital to our technologies today. I feel like any sufficiently advanced civilization would have an array of space based tech. Due to the incredibly low decay rate of basically all orbits but LEO, with geo and further basically orbiting indefinitely, I would certainly expect to see remnants of an advanced civilization there if one had existed previously on earth. Very interesting topic though, thanks for the video!

[@peppapigsmostbiggestfan5130]

flips in the magnet poles would throw them out of orbit im pretty sure, not 100% tho

[@skygge1006]

@@peppapigsmostbiggestfan5130how would that affect the gravity though

[@lhaviland8602]

The fact that we found mineral resource deposits that were easily accessible with pre-industrial technology and then very quickly exhausted them all once we did develop industry should be a pretty big clue that we are indeed the first (and probably only since these deposits take hundreds of millions of years to form).

[@gooberclown]

This is a very stimulating and provocative presentation. However, my own feeling on the matter of alien artifacts is that any alien society worth it's salt could easily manufacture highly technical artifacts that could endure for millions of years. Heck, our own lunar missions left artifacts on the moon that will easily endure, in recognizable form, for countless thousands of years.

[@theflame5919]

Will not. The moon is peppered with impact craters. Whatever we have on the moon, will eventually be destroyed by some rock hitting it, and pulverizing it in extreme heat of the impact, given enough time.

[@futurestoryteller]

He specifically mentioned the moon and it's barren surface as a uniquely static environment, and countless thousands is hardly definitively "hundreds of millions" any objects we know to be created specifically to last indefinitely are, for one thing, _indefinite_ and exist only in a small handful. You try banking on the idea that we're going to find the Silurian Crystal Skull JUST because they made it to last, and not miss it because it's like trying to find a unique speck of dust a thousand years after a hurricane.

[@stevenscott2136]

We can't do that, so how much salt are we worth? And your experience with better-than-human materials science is what?

[@amentco8445]

@@stevenscott2136 "we can't do that" op already stated how we've done that.

[@guysmiley4830]

I cant help but wonder if impact events wouldn't eventually remove evidence of humans on the moon. The space Tesla might be the only trace of us in 100,000,000 years

[@shannonelizabethmorgan1416]

There could be an argument that there actually would be more fossils for this period than others. If another industrial civilisation did exist at sometime in the past, you would assume that not only did they have massive populations similar to ours. But also the same problems with crime such as murder, if thats the case and this civilisations murderers buried victims in remote locations could this not increase the liklyhood of fossils remaining.

[@boneybone8123]

Maybe they ate their victims completely, instead of burying them.

[@eindalton2638]

Not quite, as fossils form in specific circumstances, form rarely and also a lot of them are lost. But since we know how fossils form, we could hedge our bets.

[@boneybone8123]

@@eindalton2638 Correct. Also, it's impossible for a fossil to form if something with digestive system ate it piece by piece. It might be preserved if it got eaten as a whole and the thing ate it also died before completing digestive cycle but that is a different topic.

[@wanderingfool6312]

Have you heard of the “evidence horizon”, it’s an interesting study into the propagation and demise of galactic civilisations, and ultimately how long evidence for them persists after they’re gone. It touches on the sterilising effect time can have, which you mention in this video.

[@paulbennett7021]

That concept is also part of the famous Drake equation

[@wanderingfool6312]

@@paulbennett7021 L is the length of civilisations, but this study simulates how these empires propagate out in waves of concentric rings like ripples, with various mechanisms degrading the interconnection behind the wave, leading to L. But there’s also a window of time when evidence exists, after the fall.

[@pemberwick]

Love this channel for reliable and intelligent reportage. That said - We're very close to April 1.