How to diagnose Toyota Timing Chain Rattle or Knock troubleshoot 22R 22RE 22RET

[@kenxiong6830]

9yrs and still helping fellow Toyota owners!!! Thanks

[@laurahall9794]

Wheelie pete you by far makethe most understandable and useful toyota videos. Im a 61 yr female working on my 86 toyota and i wish you made more toyota repair videos. You are the shiznik!!!!

[@DanielJones-nv3my]

Thanks buddy I have a 91 Toyota pickup truck with the 22re. This is exactly what is the matter with mine to the T. I believe its worth me doing the job since I bought it for $500 without a title, but got 1 in my name for it. This same thing happened when it had 85,000 miles on it and was fixed then but at 116,000 Mi I started hearing the BANGING in the top end once again. This was back in 2004 so I was discouraged and just parked it. I decided to pop the hood last weekend since one of my 4 children grew interest in it. I thought maybe I just had to adjust the valves, but once I took the valve cover off I found the broken plastic tensioner guide from the driver side laying down on my crank sprocket. WISH ME LUCK and thank you.

[@moonshine528i]

I just bought a Toyota pick-up with this motor and that's the exact noise I hear loudest on start and constantly in 4th gear at about 2000 rpm.Thanks so much great help

[@WheeliePete]

No, your engine will start and run with a broken guide. It will just rattle. Now, if your chain breaks, then your engine won't start. To tell if you have broken chain, just take the distributor cap off and crank the engine over. If the rotor doesn't move you most likely have a broken chain (because the chain turns the cam which drives the distributor drive gear and turns the rotor.)

[@jawnjmedeiros]

Pete, Thanks for the video. My little brother just purchased a 93 Pickup with the 22RE and the seller told us up front that the obnoxiously loud slapping noise was just the engine needing a valvetrain adjustment. Said he was going for SAE certification and was in school to be a mechanic. It sucks that he'll be the type of person working on others' cars. We'll be pulling the valve cover off to take a look at the guides. Thanks again.

[@123GoBrits]

Cost of the job has gone way up but this video is accurate. At 111k the death rattle has appeared and I have driven the truck 2000 highway miles with this problem but I am not rolling the dice any more. A broken chain on this can fatally damage the cylinder head Tomorrow it gets taken apart . The plastic guide has completely vanished on the driver's side

[@guyreefer7086]

thx for the tips, i dont' work on cars for a living, so i take your word for it. i only did the one about 8 years ago and it's still running fine. i just asked a few mechanics and they all told me to always CHECK and resurface resurface any aluminum head everytime you remove one... mine did need to be resurfaced... maybe i didn't remove it properly, don't remember. and by the way if you use TOYOTA oil filters YOU will avoid timing chaing problems on the long run......

[@lesgooley]

Thank you so much for posting this! I had no idea where to start looking for the noise. Pulled the valve cover off and sure enough, broken guide.

[@erikbalanza]

Thanks for the video, just purchased a 88' 4x4 toyota 22re.. wish i would have known to check this before i purchased it, anyways i went ahead and checked it out after the fact just for piece of mind, I was told the engine has been rebuilt 198k now. Well after taking a look under the valve cover, it looks to have had the timing guides replaced so that definetly made me happy and now i have a little more piece of mind!

[@danerachaelgustafson5941]

Well made video, thanks for the helpful tips. I appreciate your clear speaking and to the point information. My 1984 22R does not have this marble in a box sounds but the valve cover does leak like a siv. Will check the tensioner once the cover is off.

[@WheeliePete]

Both the crankshaft gear and the cam gear have marks on them that correspond colored links on the timing chain. You put the single bright link on the corresponding mark on the crankshaft gear and put the mark on the camshaft gear between the two bright links of the chain. It can be done if there are not marked links on the chain, but it requires more though to get it right.

[@aerialrescuesolutions3277]

Excellent video, very well done and edited. One thing to note. If you're upgrading to a dual row or using a different cover then the one taken off the engine, then it's very, very important to ascertain that the height of the timing cover is exactly the same as the deck height. They are most likely taller, this is not good at all. Jim

[@WheeliePete]

Yep. This is why I tell anyone asking about rebuilding to make sure and send the timing cover along with the engine block for machining. If the block gets surfaced, the timing cover top edge needs to be matched to it.

[@skhochay]

who are the bone heads that gives dislikes, this dude is doing a very good deed by fixing and video mortgaging video so you can learn. Thank you Pete.

[@WheeliePete]

If you pull the head it's really easy to replace the stuff. If you unbolt the 22R series head correctly in a stepped sequence you can get away without having to resurface the head. Any time you remove material from the bottom of the head you shorten the distance between the cam and the crank as well as the piston / valve clearance. This can necessitate the use of an extra thick head gasket to set the distance back in spec.

[@WheeliePete]

1998 Toyota 4x4 4cyl 5spd rated at 16 city 20 hwy. The auto rated the same, but had a 1mpg better in the combined. The 3RZ has waaaaaay more power than the old 22R series ever did and it's a great engine!

[@RandoPandaSmiles]

Thank you, sir. You know, I've scoured the forums and not heard that answer given before. I like it. I'm going to look into this. I'm new to Toyota, but it's a sweet little truck and I want to do it justice. The rattling I'm hearing is not cyclical. It it ever-present, just louder at times, depending on the RPM's/vibration of the rig. If I hit that sweet spot before upshifting, while at high RPM's, it can drown out the radio and my thought process. Definitely an ugly metallic sound...

[@hunterfox4474]

2:15 It can be done with the vehicle in the truck.

[@rebel4ever38127]

Was listening to him say it as I was reading this.

[@WheeliePete]

As long as it's not worn through I would run the original. One consderation about replacing the timing cover is that if you have surfaced the engine block before, a new timing cover may be taller than the engine block. This creates a big problem in that the head gasket will not seal properly if the timing cover is taller than the block. When you have a block surfaced you should have the timing cover bolted to it so they are match ground.

[@JMunn55]

Mine did the coolant/oil mix but I didn’t notice abnormal ticking or running rough beforehand. Idk how long it was mixed so I’m just replacing with a lower mileage 22RE, I’ll check the guides first

[@jeanb5895]

Really good quality audio and video. There's way to many shop guys shaking the camera around like a kite theses days. I have 03 Corolla 136,700 kms on it and replaced valve gasket with friends but now I find myself really wanting a Toyota 4x4. Will try to find one with this prob fixed though as my strengths are with body work, tires and oil change. You really know your stuff, Cheers from Ottawa!

[@MrHurricaneFloyd]

$40 in 2014 with parts from eBay counting a revised front oil seal, use a 7mm thick seal instead of a sleeve or new pulley, BECK/ARNLEY 052-2144, it lets the new seal lip run 4mm farther back than the worn groove. BTW, the chains can go 200k without a problem, it is random. The only bad one I ever had made a much worse sound than loose valves, drove 10,000 miles and still managed to save the timing cover when I did change it.

[@chrispease6939]

i am rebuilding a 1994 22re 4x4 and everything is done I'm just at the last part of the engine. originally was sitting for 10 ten years and so I'm fixing it for a friend and he said it needed new gas tank put in. so once new tank was in we started it and it blew white smoke so we took it apart to change head gasket but it turned out to be multiple issues. long story short its all done except for timing. we put new guides in along with both timing gears. with the haynes book it says to read the tag on inside of the hood to find the correct degree to set the cylinders at I'm pretty sure. but the tag isn't there because its an aftermarket hood with no tags and so it won't start but we slowly advance the timing but i was told that if u advance it too much it can potentially hurt the engine without knowing the right degree mark. but my friend said if it's an interference engine then u don't have to worry about it but i read some people say it is and it isn't. what degree is the timing supposed to be set at. then after that its a matter of adjusting the distributor. please help!!!

[@jamisonlgolonka]

Pete, great video. I haven't seen the 22r engine yet and while looking for timing parts, it asked if was a belt or chain. At first looking at a picture of the engine on-line, i thought it was a chain (which it is), but the fact i was asked belt or chain made me doubted myself. But this video proved to me it was a chain and it has a problematic chain guide issue (very nice to know). Lastly, i've heard of the broken timing cover due to the hidden bolt, now i know which one to look out for.

[@GreenThumbEngines]

Even though you said you heard a bit of knocking and then half way into the video you put everything back together and showed us how it sounded like, and also gave it a few revs. That engine sounds really good. When I rev my engine up it does not sound that good and it’s a 22re too. When I rev mine, I hear like a squeal down by the distributor, almost sounds like it’s coming from under the valve cover. And I also hear some ticking too. I replaced the distributor cap/rotor and wires and the engine is still cutting off on me while I’m driving like 40mph in the night time. Not sure what it could be but I’m going to check under the valve cover tomorrow

[@WheeliePete]

He never did replace the guides in that engine. It's still running and has over 300K on the clock now, still runs good, even with that busted guide flopping around on the driver's side...lol... No idea on you're engine cutting out at 40mph. That could be a lot of things but it's probably ignition related. I once had a chevy that would start cutting out and what that turned out to be was a cracked coil body that was allowing spark to occasionally escape out the side of the coil tower and ground to the block instead of going to the cap. If it's only happening at night that might also indicate ignition/electrical as your lights are on and the draw on the system is going to be at it's greatest. Electrical gremlins are the worst to chase...especially on old rigs...

[@WheeliePete]

continued from above... and if you don't find anything obvious, try replacing the knock sensor any way. When you do, disconnect the battery for a few minutes and let the computer totally reset, then go out and drive it at varrying speeds and let it reprogram. The good news is that there aren't "that" many sensors on a '94 22RE so you should be able to chase down the culprit. The knock sensor is there to detect pre-detonation, so you might try the next octane of fuel up also.

[@l4j3]

Wow. Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to make this great video WheeliePete. I’m a mediocre back-yard mechanic (at best), so I really like the idea of replacing my timing chain on my 2001 Tacoma (22rz-fe) without removing the head. Is there any ‘tricks/hints’ you could pass along about getting the Timing Chain Cover off without damaging the head gasket? Thank you --Larry

[@Ironmike965]

Awesome info. Pete ! I'm about to embark on replacing my '92 Toyota pickup timing set, and you answered most of the questions I had about it. Thanks for the high def. and well lit pictures as well. They are a great help ! Mike

[@gildardosantacruz5791]

Thanks Pete really helpful video. I'm getting ready to replace mine, I didn't relize that I had to remove the oil pan.

[@siulumlion]

Good information and steady camera work. Nice job. I shared this on Yotatech forum in a timing chain discussion.

[@edristalbert2094]

Excellent bought a 1994 last night and I was wondering what that clicking noise was and now I know.

[@rmnjp07]

thanks man. I have a 93 pickup with the same problem but could never figure out the problem. I always thought it was the rocker arms tapping. didn't know about the timing chain guide was made of plastic. lol n tnx for that website. now I can purchase one of thows metal ones.

[@SigurdtheRyder]

I have a 93 4x4 truck tat I purchased from a farmer...no maintenance and so many things were going to get in trouble very soon. I went with the dual row chain and steel guides...I got everything from LC Engineering. got a new timing cover with the kit as the old one had a groove as you described.

[@WheeliePete]

That's a pretty nice conversion kit they make for upgrading the single row to a double row. That should take care of your timing system for a LONG time.

[@SigurdtheRyder]

@@WheeliePete I agree

[@WheeliePete]

Just be sure to follow whatever recommendation they (LCE) have for the toque spec on the oil-driven chain tensioner mounting bolts. If you over-torque the two mounting bolts you can deform the body of the tensioner which will bind the tensioner piston and keep it from extending/retracting properly. That leads to early death in the system. I don't quite remember off the top of my head, but the torque value wasn't that high, like somewhere around 12-14 ft-lb, but please double check that in the instructions, call LCE, etc.

[@SigurdtheRyder]

@@WheeliePete I akready have all the specs, including the chain timing. BTW, I purchased a street stroker kit, longtube stainless exhaust system, new cam and rocker assembly, 35# flywheel and stage 3 clutch...along with a new billet throttle body and their ceramic coated oil pump and egr/air innecrion delete kit...arp studs etc etc etc.....Right now the engine block is being machined at a local shop I trust. This truck is going to have many upgrades and new replacement parts. I have been posting short vids as I go along if you are interested. I was a mechanic for some 30 years or so. I am 60 now so some of the heavier jobs like the engine will require help or outside labor...it is what it is at my age....

[@WheeliePete]

@@SigurdtheRyder That sounds like it's going to be a great ending when it's all said and done! Did you send the timing chain cover with the block to be machined also? If they are going to machine the top of the block flat, it's good to have the timing cover top edge machined to match the deck height. I'll head over to your channel and sub so I can follow the progress!

[@WheeliePete]

I wouldn't worry about it unless you start hearing something out of the ordinary. It's really pretty easy to pop the valve cover off and take a quick look which tell you for sure. The service interval on the single row chain is around 90,000 miles.

[@K4rt80y]

Enginebldr is top notch. The timing kit is totally worth it.

[@WheeliePete]

Hi Larry, the 2RZ and 3RZ class of engines that are in the tacoma's are an entirely differernt animal. This video is for the 22R series engine class that were produced from 1979 - mid-1995 prior to the Tacoma's being introduced. But those 2RZ and 3RZ engines are great engines!

[@brucebacon6507]

Thank you for this informative sequence, good dialogue, clear and easy to follow-super!

[@WheeliePete]

If your valve adjustment keep creeping around it's because your rocker arm studs that you adjust the valve clearance with are old and are stretching when you adjust them. This really isn't that common, but it can happen. You'd have to buy new adjusting studs and locknuts. Get a set of go-no-go feeler gauges too, they work awesome. (The tip of the gauge is .006 and the next section is .008 which means if it slips in, but stops at the step, you have .007, I love those things for valve adj.)

[@Franker420]

keep up the good work.i have a 91 yota 4runner v6 5spd just got it a few months back it was a real nice little truck till the 4x4 quit on me.i haven't had a chance yet to look at it yet n figure it out but they are some tough trucks

[@ironheadpat86]

Thanks for the video. I knew there were problems with those plastic guides but haven't been able to find the metal ones at any local parts house.

[@jgr144]

Wow thanks at first i was thinking "forcing the chain on??? that's madness!! i gave it a little upward nudge and it slipped right on. awesome job man thanks agian

[@WheeliePete]

The Toyota 22R series engine is a non-interference engine, which means the piston will not contact the valve even if the valve is completely open and the piston is at top dead center (TDC). In theory you could have a shaved head and decked block that would allow contact, but that's a long shot. Some engines (like your ducati) don't have enough clearance (interference engine) so skipping a few teeth on the timing chain can destroy the valve-train or worse if the piston contacts the valve.

[@cbh148]

I'm in the middle of changing out my broken guides now on my '94 4x4 DLX. Pulled the engine to make it easier and to reseal the leaky oil pan and give it a new clutch as well. I've cleaned the front of the block so much where the timing gaskets touch but I'm not sure if it's enough. Also been flossing brake cleaner on a paper towel between the head gasket and the head to try to get all the oil off of them so that I can apply some Ultra Grey on both sides of the head gasket right there on the front. Really don't want any leaks after this. Got a new Aisin oil pump to go on too, but so many parts to clean before they can go back on!

[@snippits75]

You don't need to put any sealer on the top or bottom of the head gasket. The proper head gasket has a rubber/silicone bead on the bottom side of the gasket, and that will seal the front of the gasket to the top of the timing cover. I used a Toyota factory head gasket, and it comes with the sealant bead on the bottom front of the gasket.

[@WheeliePete]

Toyota recommends 90-100K replacement, not because of the chain, but the plastic guides. Even if the plastic guides are still intact, chain stretch at 208K will be substantial. As the chain stretches, the teeth of the cam and crank gears wear to match. I'd pull that thing out pronto and replace. If the chain breaks while the engine is running it will probably break the oil slinger casting in the timing cover.The 22R is a non-interference engine so a broken chain won't destroy your valve train.

[@WheeliePete]

When you take off the timing cover, you need to check and make sure the chain didn't rub a hole through that driver's side of the timing cover. There is a water jacket right in that spot and if the guide has completely broken off and the chain is slapping the side of the timing cover it can wear a hole through the cover and let oil into the coolant. If your billowing clouds of white smoke though, that mean's coolant is getting into the combustion chamber and you've got a blown head gasket.

[@shineperishingrepublic]

Very thorough and informative videos Pete. I appreciate them.

[@mattschutt2340]

Really love your Toyota videos! Doing this project now, and would love to see a good video on oil pan removal!

[@BAHRAMCR]

Great video, I have a 1986 toyota extra cab pickup with that engine. No problems yet except some minor oil leak, it has 124k miles on it, so I assume this will come soon.

[@WheeliePete]

If you pull a 22R series head (carefully in a stepped-sequence removal of the bolts), put in a new head gasket, torque it in sequence, run the engine, and then re-torque it, you'll be fine, it will torque back into square with the block. Don't forget to put some sealance at the junction of the timing cover, head, and block. That's the spot that oil leaks develope on this engine. Now if you're replacing the HG because it blew out, you need to identify why it blew. If it was because of

[@johnbrowne2173]

OK... I had just gotten the milled head back, & new gasket in place and was ready to button this 22R up, after finding water in the oil. I came to You Tube to look for some tips about getting the cam gear back on the shaft, and found this one here... and had a look. When I went back to the rig and looked inside, found that broken guide in there... and I cussed a little, then pulled the head (no bolts yet) & gasket out, and removed the timing cover... and, yes-- a pain in the keister. When I had it off and looked inside, there were two grooves- like a little track- running along the chain cover... right on the water pump housing! Looking in from that side showed me a very prominent little ridge... and, I believe, the Source of my problem (could have left the head & gasket alone, most likely). So NOW it's a new cover, new chain, new guides, gaskets, etc... and it's ALL YOUR FAULT! (Thanks, man!) ^..^

[@WheeliePete]

John Browne You only need to replace the timing cover if the chain managed to eat all the way through to the water jacket and water is leaking into the timing cover and then down into the pan. The problem with replacing the timing cover, is that if the block has ever been rebuilt and the surface milled the timing cover will be too tall and will need to also be milled to match the level of the block. When I rebuild a 22R series I bolt the timing cover to the block and have them mill them both at the same time (making them a matched surface.) The reason it's important to make sure the timing cover is dead level with the block is because the head overlaps the block and the timing cover and if the timing cover is slightly higher than the block you get a sealing issue at that joint which results in an oil leak at best or a blown headgasket. If you have to get a new timing cover, dry fit it to the front of the engine with no headgasket and then take a straight edge on the block and make sure the timing cover is dead level with the block's head gasket surface. If it's not, take a measurement and then have that much milled off the top of the timing cover. When you do go to put the head gasket on, it's always a good idea (no matter how perfect the fit) to put a little smear of RTV across that junction of the block and the timing cover before you put the gasket down. Keeps any oil from sneaking across that fitment line of the head and timing cover.

[@WheeliePete]

Yes. Pull the valve cover off and look down in there and see if that guide is broken or missing (broke all the way off and fell to the oil pan...

[@WheeliePete]

Yeah, that's the reason you'll hear seller's saying "It just needs a valve adjustment"...B.S. the timing guide is probably broken. Always pull the valve cover and shine a flashlight in there.

[@WheeliePete]

With the engine cold, put the heater control to the hot side, take the radiator cap off, squeeze the lower radiator hose a few time to see if the system burps. start the engine and let it warm up with the radiator cap off. That coolant is flowing and once the engine is warm verify that you are getting heat through the vents. If it persists in being hot, try putting a backflush "T" into one of the heater core hoses at the high point and then fill coolant until it comes out the top of the "T"

[@WheeliePete]

That's a 1985 toyota with the ORIGINAL chain in it after about 275,000 miles. I'm pretty sure that's the definition of never-break-down. It's now over a year since that video was made and it's still going. We still haven't replaced the chain/guide since the guide hasn't broken off all the way yet.

[@WheeliePete]

And don't forget to take out the hidden bolt in the puddle of oil under the distributor drive gear that pins the head to the timing cover. I've seen plenty of folks that forgot that one and snapped the timing cover trying to force it off after they think they've removed all the bolts holding the cover to the engine.

[@chadpaul9799]

Great video. My 94 recently started making a loud pinging noise under load and my friend thought it may be the timing chain. But wouldn't it make the sound always or would it do it just under load? Also the noise started right after turning on the heater, not sure if that was a coincidence. It does have 250,000 miles on it.

[@Raevenswood]

I just got back with an 86 4runner 22re and the dude swore up and down it was rebuilt 15kago with a metal timing guide ...of course the receipts were "in storage" somewhere he "couldn't find" ... I drove from San Francisco to San Diego to make the deal and when I arrived there were issues not mentioned even when I asked on the phone and he said it ran like a top and no issues or leaks. Reality is if he did rebuild this engine he used the cheapest Chinese rebuild kit available because after getting home I looked under the hood and the front of the engine has a seep Looks like the crank seal or maybe just the timing cover anyway I would have just walked when I heard the tick tick tick tick tick of the poorly adjusted valves but it was/is so clean otherwise I figured it was totally worth the price and it totally is worth it ...interior is original and not all ruined the back window rolls down just fine and it's a rust free CA vehicle. So, with that said, this isn't my first rodeo with the 22re I had two previous trucks go over 300k one almost reached 390k but was totalled while parked... the 300k truck was rear ended and totaled before I got the other one ... willing to bet either of them would have gone hundreds of thousands of miles more too. One of them had a broken timing chain guide at one point in its life so I knew what it was when 50 miles outside of where I purchased the runner I noticed the clatter at peak rpm just as I pressed in the clutch peddal to shift ...seems to happen most at the top of 1st and 3rd gears when under a load like a slight grade up hill. I didn't hear much noise at all during test drive other than the tick tick tick of lifters but the guy was talking my ear off probably to distract me ... whatever though like I said I plan to rebuild anyway. As a warning to anyone looking for a 22re equipped vehicle, they are amazing engines but if you aren't someone willing to do the work yourself or pay for it and are just looking for a turn key vehicle MAKE SURE THERE IS PROOF of the claims the seller is making because people lie and like the video states it's about an 800$ job at a shop maybe even more at the stealership. If there isn't proof but you still want to go for it I'd use that as leverage to get a discounted price to cover parts an labor, depending on which direction you plan to take.

[@WheeliePete]

Yeah...if I had $1 for every craigslist seller that I've ever talked to claiming a "rebuild"...I feel your pain. The front main seal is a pretty easy one to fix. I did a video on that one to you might want to check out. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5bSq5mCpap9mtU

[@Raevenswood]

WheeliePete it's not bad fixing the front main but I feel like I'll just be plugging holes in the dam if I don't address the overall issue of the engine not being rebuilt at all or being rebuilt with crappy seals. I'll be pulling the valve cover later today to confirm the chain guide issue and see if I can adjust the valves and timing to correct some of the top end clatter... Separate issues from the timing chain but I have a smog paper from the guy showing it passed yesterday with flying colors ... I don't k ow how it could be running so rich and still pass ... I suspect they messed with the timing to get it to pass. Anyhow thanks for your video and the reply! I'll check out your other vids and I subbed

[@Raevenswood]

WheeliePete So just an update on this. The head is cracked and it was dumping coolant into cylinder number 4 from the passage between cylinder 3 and 4. That wasn't the rattle sound though... after removing the head I easily diagnosed a knock in piston 2 either a loose wrist pin or bearing. Also the Ahole poured several bottles (at least) of that liquid leak sealer into the coolant system to cover up the crack long enough for me to buy it. All the coolant pasages in the head and block are full of this crud. also it was obviously never rebuilt properly if at all. Still has OEM pistons and valves and I highly doubt this guy splurged on those parts for a rebuild. Guy said he got the block at the pick n pull and had the engine rebuilt ... reality is he got a complete block at pick n pull and just slapped on a new gasket and his old head and called it a day. Irony is the timing chain was the only new thing I found. Full rebuild is underway. Glad this isn't my daily driver : )

[@WheeliePete]

Ah man, that sucks. At least by having to do it yourself you'll be your own best quality control.

[@Raevenswood]

WheeliePete indeed and I'll know this truck inside and out by the time I'm done going through it which is a bonus if a thing goes wrong in the wild. Thanks for the vids! The Aisin hub rebuild vid was helpful to me as well.

[@WheeliePete]

Unless you are going to tear the engine down and resurface the block you need to reuse the timing cover. If the engine has been rebuilt they should have surfaced the head with the timing cover bolted to it so they are the same height. If you slap a new timing cover onto the front of an engine that has been surfaced you will create a leak at the spot where the head/timing cover/block all overlap because the new timing cover will be slightly higher then the height of the block.

[@JoelzombieThomas]

I talked to Ted at Engnbldr.com personally here in Portland and since I have the 1983 engine, I was only offered one kit, which had another all-plastic driver's side guide. I begged if there were a way to get a metal one in there, but he said all those kits would only fit the '84 or '85 (I forget which) and up 22r series. Once I saw this video, I knew I had to take off the valve cover and look down. Although my TCROD sounded different, I couldn't locate it's origin until I saw my broken guide.

[@WheeliePete]

Tough one to diagnose on the web. Is it rattling when you lock into gear (load) or between the shift (unloaded)? If it's under load check the timing and see if it's too far advanced (pre-detonation). The steel guide has a plastic/rubber face so it shouldn't be metal to metal contact. Another (scary) possiblilty is that the oil-pressure driven chain tensioner is binding if you over-torqued the bolts holding it on. They only get 14ftlbs, any more and it can torque the body and bind the piston.

[@DavidWilliams-xg4in]

I have a 1991 toyota extended cab 4x4 with a 22re that just turned over 200,000 miles. I was driving about 65mph when I started to smell hot antifreeze. I pulled over immediately and found that my freeze plug block heater had blown out. I towed the truck home,checked my oil for antifreeze (just changed it and it looked new) replaced the block heater, fired up the engine, heard a "new" ticking noise, noticed white smoke from the tail pipe and shut it down. I checked the oil again and found antifreeze mixed with the oil. The body, interior and drive train is in exceptional shape. I have owned this Toyota for 20 years and always serviced it on time. Is it time to buy a rebuilt high performance long block OR change the head gasket and timing chain (+ cover if bad) - or just sell the truck as is. If I sell, they seem to be in demand and I wonder what a fair price would be. Any suggestions??

[@WheeliePete]

David Williams If the truck's got a nice body and interior and you still enjoy driving it I would do the engine work and keep on driving it. You'll never get enough out of a used truck with a bad engine to put a dent in the cost of a newer one. The only people looking for a clean truck with a bad engine are people like me who are just trolling for a deal that we can put back together for cheap. Now, I get a little paranoid about coolant in the oil. A blown head gasket is one thing, but if you were driving with coolant mixing with the oil and it got into the rod and main bearings, I'd probably pull the whole engine and tear it all the way down...but that's just me. You could probably get away with pulling the head, new head gasket, new timing, metal guides, new oil pump and probably a new timing cover if the chain chewed through it and let the coolant in. If you can do the work yourself it's just time and probably less than $600 depending on what you have to have machined (new timing cover to match the deck height of the block and having the head milled flat.) If you are going to have to pay someone to do it, a reman long block with a warranty might be the way to go.

[@WheeliePete]

You should be able to horse it onto the cam, it may take two people. CAREFULLY pry the cam gear and chain up onto the cam. You may need to roll the crank a little in either direction to get some wiggle room in the chain. I've had some tight ones before, an extra set of hands will probably help. You can also roll the cam around with a wrench on the flats of the camshaft trying to help line things up.

[@trung617]

thanks wheeliepete this vidoe help me alot...never thought bout the timing guide...i myself is trying to replace my head gasket cause coolant is coming in the engin... saw this video and what u know my timing guide is broken....im guessing that where the knocking noise come from lol.... thanks again...

[@WheeliePete]

I couldn't tell you on that engine. It's radically different from the 22R series. I'm not even sure if that engine in that year of celica has a chain or a belt. Probably be worth getting it looked at though. Engine knocks don't go away on their own and they are almost never a minor thing....

[@Napalmstrike4466]

Thank you WheeliePete for the video! It really helped me!

[@WheeliePete]

There's enough room to loosen the oil pan to drop it down a bit I think. It's been a long time since I worked on the early Celica, but I think there is enough room ro R&R the oil pan without having to remove the sub-frame, either that or you can loosen the motor mounts and use a floor jack to lift up the engine from the lip of the transmission. You don't "have" to fully remove the pan, but it's a good idea if you have guide pieces down in it to get them out.

[@WheeliePete]

I don't have a more detailed video...yet. I'm in the process of buying a 1,750 square foot shop right now that will allow me to shoot some better videos in the near future. If you have a 1981 truck with the original 1981 engine you don't have anything to worry about because you should have a double row timing chain and metal guides from the factory. Those systems are nearly bullet-proof. They changed to the single row chain and plastic in 83~ish to increase dealer maintenance revenue (my theory)

[@XB3rider]

about 10yrs ago a friend and i adjusted valve clearance, removed and cleaned the oil pan and filter screen on my 93' 22RE. We found plastic debris in the oil pan. My buudy and i tried to figure where it came from so he took it to a Toyota dealer to have it checked but my buddy relocated for his aviation mechanic job and never got 2 find out. I guess it may be the the plastic chain guide..you think? I never had this clicking or noise in that area until recently this past couple months. Thanks!

[@WheeliePete]

As long as you're not leaking coolant though the timing cover I would say re-use the cover. If you replace the cover with a new one there is a chance (especially if the engine has been rebuilt) it will NOT have the same surface height as the block which will create and oil leak at the block-head-timing cover junction. When you rebuild a 22R series engine you want to have the block surfaced WITH the Timing cover bolted to it so they are both the EXACT same height. If it's not leaking, run it.

[@mets23q]

I think i have this problem, and the way you describe the noise when i let go of the throttle is spot on, it sounds like a ticking, it only does it when i really hit the throttle over 4000rpm, how long can i drive it like this, the noise is faint though not real loud (2GRFE)

[@WheeliePete]

I'm sorry, I don't have any experience in the 2G series engines. They are a very different animal than the 22r series. I do know they have VVTI (variable valve timing) and that the early versions of that in Toyota had some issues that resulting in ticking at different engine loads/speeds.

[@mets23q]

@@WheeliePete thanks for your reply, should i be worried i really hope it is not a bad timing chain tensioner but from what you describe the noise does sound like a faint rattle and is only noticeable when car is warmed up and when i let go off the gas, are there any other causes that are a cheaper alternative i really don't want to change the tensioner only as a last resort

[@WheeliePete]

Here's another possiblity that happens some times. If your V belts on your pulleys are worn too much or not seating property you can get a rattle. It's the damndest thing, sounds like a knock. If you have the valves adjusted properly and the guides aren't broken and the oil tensioner is in place (you can push on it with a long screwdriver to see if it is going back and forth) you might hit the belts with a bit of belt dressing spray to see if the noise goes away. If it does, get new belts.

[@benjaminwatson8043]

i have had this happen years ago with my first 22r, where the timing chain chewed thru the guide and timing cover and created a lovely cappucino colored mess. i just bought another 22r and this will be the first thing i look at when we take the cover off.

[@MOBx986]

Wish i knew this much sooner. Now i need a rebuild.

[@nicparker3809]

(I got air tools bro...

[@WheeliePete]

It can be difficult. Sometimes rolling the crank or the cam around a little to help get it back on. I've had some tight ones before. Sometimes a second set of hands can really help.

[@WheeliePete]

I suppose it could break at the bottom, but you should be able to see that pretty clearly with the valve cover off and a flashlight. Another possibility is that the oil tensioner has failed and is allowing chain slap. A common mistake is for people to put on the oil tensioner bolts on too tight and tweak the body of the oil tensioner so that the tensioner's piston binds and doesn't function. 12-14 ftlbs MAX on the oil tensioner bolts.

[@WheeliePete]

If I don't have good information as to how long the parts have been on there (when they were last replaced) then I will replace all the stuff while I'm in there. Oil pump, chain guides, chain, upper/lower timing gears, oil tensioner, oil pump, waterpump. Most timing kits come with the guides, chain, upper and lower gears, and oil tensioner. The timing gears and chain wear together so you HAVE to replace them together. They are essentially a matched set.

[@WheeliePete]

Make sure you take the hidden bolt out from under the distributor drive gear (it's covered by an oil puddle and bolts the top edge of the timing cover to the head. From there you just have to be sure not to fawk up the head gasket when you remove the timing cover. The timing cover has some dowels in it too so you can't force it down, you have to pull it straight off and then getting it back on is a trick. Don't try to be a hero, just drop the oil pan, you probably need to clean it out anyway.

[@thenomadrhodes]

@WheeliePete Wow, all of those sound really pricey to fix.. Thank you WheeliePete, I'll jump on that this weekend.

[@dfields9511]

I had a 77 Celica with 20R, duel Row timing chain. it was good for about 300K before it needed changing.

[@WheeliePete]

The dual row chain setup was bomber strong. Probably why they went to a single row chain as the dual row would last so long it cut down on repairs. I'm sure there's probably some other explanation like lower rotational mass with the single = a slightly higher horsepower, but the conspiracy theorist in me thinks the switch it was probably money-driven to get the Toyota dealership some more scheduled service work. I have a 1981 Truck with a 22R in it that has the dual row chain. Honestly, the oil pressure driven chain tensioner face will wear out before that chain does... You can still get a dual row conversion for single row 22R and 22RE motors from LCE engineering. : www.lceperformance.com/22R-RE-RTE-LCE-Dual-Row-Timing-Chain-Conversion-Ki-p/1015012.htm

[@TheLBCSublime]

Just saying a of people would never consider taking part of the engine off just to check a timing guide for a "potential" buyer. Its like asking can I drop your oil pan and check your crank? I'd say never mind, its not for sale

[@WheeliePete]

@RAJSTA81 I wouldn't go any thicker than 10W40 in the engine. That 20W50 is pretty thick stuff and is hard to pump. That's probably why the early rattle. You might have a leak in the vac lines to the vac advance diagphram. Not sure why the timing would be slipping. Maybe you don't have the hold down bolt tight enough on the distributor? It also might be time to block off all the EGR crap. That stuff really kills mileage when it starts to get old.

[@WheeliePete]

If you're distributor isn't off a tooth in the engagement with the Cam gear, then your chain is off one tooth most likely. You can fix that by CAREFULLY removing the timing gear from the cam, then lower the cam in the chain and rotate it one tooth in the direction you need and then rotate the engine a little at the crank and put the gear and chain back on the camshaft. It's a pain in the ass, but can be done. Goes better if you get a second pair of hands in there.

[@WheeliePete]

You will at least have to drop it a little bit because when you go to put the timing cover back on you need a bit of room to come up and into the head. You can probably get by on 1/4 to 1/2" if you can get the pan down a little. But then you have issues sealing the pan back up. Check the procedure on dropping the pan. Usually you can get oil pans out without having to lift the engine. You want to get the broken guides out of the pan anyway. You don't want the pieces blocking the oil pickup.

[@felplayvina]

Hi Wheeliepete I have 95 Nissan 240 and sound like you say marbles inside, thank for the good info..

[@tennwhitetrash]

Thanks for all the info! I ordered the timing kit w/ oil pump from engnbldr Monday. One more question. You said in your video that replacing that guide without removing the head is kinda tricky. How so? I am going to try and do this Saturday and I just wanna make sure that I don't screw the head gasket up

[@thenomadrhodes]

Hey Mr Pete, first time viewer and I would like to know what could cause a chattering sound out of the front of the engine, just started the other day out of blue, It sorta goes away after the engine starts and runs for a little bit. this is why I came looking on youtube and found your videos, I'll be visiting your channel a lot more in the future. THank you for making these :)

[@WheeliePete]

Another one of those hard-to-diagnose on the web ones... Sounds related to oil pressure are always a bit sketchy. Could be a seal dragging (did you grease the seal lips on the front main before you put it on? Could be timing chain related as the chain tensioner works off of oil pressure. Tough to tell without being able to listen to it. Oh, wait, might be the power steering pump. I've had the PS pumps make some weird noises when they get old, or when they aren't bled properly...

[@WheeliePete]

The 98 tacoma will have the 2RZ or 3RZ (if it's a 4cylinder) engine in it which is a totally different animal from the 22R series. Replacing an exhaust manifold on the 4 cylinder trucks is pretty straight forward. Shouldn't be too hard if you have some basic experience around automotive.

[@justdave4972]

Sorry some good info but I think u made it way more drama then needed. Those plastic guides are famous for breaking and replacing timing chain is super easy to replace, no idea why u would even think about worrying about taking head off. You simple buy timing chain set that comes with steal guides. You take off cover put on new guides and tensioner replace with no brainer Mark's to line up gear sprocket put new one back on. Done! 2hrs tops if that. And that's with a hang over!.. kit comes with both guides (each side) replace all. Done ! I've put 300,000 mi on them after with never another problem. Why on earth would u only replace just 1 guide. Or even mention head as issue. Not bad video but there timing chain issues are well known and well known to be super easy. But u make it sound like half assing it was normal or ok. When u get everything to totally redo with little to no drama.. the biggest beauty of the 20 and 22r engine. Decent video but over dramatized

[@WheeliePete]

What's happening is that whatever is tripping the check engine light is throwing your fuel injection computer into whas is called "limp-mode" which basically means it's gone into default programming and is not making adjustments based on sensors, it's literally letting you limp home, hence the power loss. The problem is that a 94 truck is prior to the OBDII standardization of computer codes so it can be difficult to track down the cause. I would check the knock sensor wiring for good connection

[@WheeliePete]

Unfortunately, the only way to stop that leak at this point is to pull the head and replace the gasket again, this time making sure to put a dab of sealant across the line where the timing cover and the block meet on both sides. As for the filters go, most of the major manufacturers now put the check valve in the filters (even the el-cheapo wal-mart filters have it.) But Toyota Filters are cheap if you buy them in multiples.

[@Art-jl6pt]

.attn: used car buyer.the PVC pipe check would be most beneficial for locating the noise.

[@69roadr]

i think this is the problem with my 84 Toyota Celica (165,000 mi). thanx for the vid

[@WheeliePete]

I should also add, going back to the first reply, that having a timing cover that has a higher deck height than the block may cause your head gasket to fail prematurely because the head isn't cranking down flat if the timing cover is taller than the surface of the block. Again, if you are having an engine block surfaced make sure the timing cover is bolted to it so the block and timing cover are EXACTLY the same height.

[@WheeliePete]

@RAJSTA81 Yeah, the chain tensioner is hydraulically run off of oil pressure. I wouldn't worry about it too much if the rattle gows away that quickly. With the broken guides the rattle is pretty much always there (worse under deceleration.) If the prior owner never changed the oil the oil passages to the tensioner may be partially blocked and is making it take longer to build pressure to the tensioner.

[@gabrielsons1]

great video, the only thing, i wish you could hear the noise more, like you said it just sounds like valves

[@WheeliePete]

You know, I'm not sure if the older steel guides from a dual row chain would work on a later model block. If you're that far into an engine and the guides are broken, chances are the engine has enough miles on it you should be replacing the chain, guides, cam and crank gears, and oil tensioner any way. It would suck to have to go back in there if something else failed. To get the guides you you have to strip the whole front of the block off regardless so you might as well replace the chain.

[@toxiclullaby86]

great video i just got a 88 4x4 toyota and i have the same noise im going to pull the cover and check it out your video helped a lot thanks

[@WheeliePete]

I think it probably has to do with the deck height of the of the 1983 block. I bet it's the early block, but using the single row chain. The steel backed guides are for 1984 and up. I checked over at LC Engineering's page and they have the same thing. You *might* be able to get an early dual row chain on there (steel backed guides), but you'd have to switch out the timing cover and some other parts. (cont. next comment...)

[@Landybandy1]

Ha ha "it can be done with the vehicle in the truck". This cracked me up when I heard him say this.

[@WheeliePete]

@NightHowl92 I can get it done in a Saturday (all day) by myself start to finish. Depends on how much time you spend cleaning stuff up and how careful you are. I'm a neat freak, and I will not tolerate oil leaks so I spend a lot of time cleaning old gasket material off and being meticulous. You also need to know what you are doing with Toyota stuff because you have that ENTIRE front of the engine torn apart. There's a lot of subtle knowledge that goes into that job.