When A Low Tier Changed Melee Forever

[@ax0l297]

>ditches main >mains a ''bad'' character >makes his username ''DontTestMe'' as a provocation >destroys the enitre tournament >makes the grand finalist rage quit chad

[@Galdr]

Indeed. A Gigachad imo. This was so awesome to watch ngl. Also your comment is just perfect.

[@yams7355]

Then grandfinalist literally be like "I'm not mad" hehehe

[@queuedjar4578]

@@yams7355 To ginger's credit, This rona rumble was played on delay based netcode, which does give Roy a lot of advantage over Falco especially since inputs would get dropped and lag spikes would be a lot more unpredictable. As someone who did play a lot of Roy on anther's ladder with delay based netcode, and has cheesed a lot of Falcos, I can actually understand completely if one were salty. Ginger took it well.

[@yams7355]

@@queuedjar4578 fair

[@prw56]

@@queuedjar4578 Knowing that doesn't change how happy I was that roy won. I don't know how that disadvantage compares to the low tier character disadvantage, but its really boring seeing the same characters play and win every time. Anyone who mixes it up and actually manages to go the distance feels like a fuckin hero.

[@MitchBurns]

Ginger did the calmest most polite and respectful rage quit I’ve ever seen.

[@LikelyHexoadine]

Not really a rage quit anymore then! Just a forefit lmao

[@queuedjar4578]

8:30 to clarify this interaction, DTM did actually get the correct hitbox of reverse up B (the first hitbox is the one that kills puff), though it's a hitbox with set knockback, meaning that at any percent, this move won't actually kill puff on battlefield off the floor (barring some very bad DI). The percentage is completely irrelevant, even at 999% the reverse up B still sends puff at the same height. It will only kill off the floor at 0% on stages with low ceilings (FD, Yoshi's, Stadium).

[@SimbyDimby]

I used this tactic to get the Mr Resetti 5 cruel melee ko's back in the day. Nice to know why it worked!

[@Khan-bq8qc]

He proved that a skilled Roy can beat any Fox

[@Khan-bq8qc]

also really well done vid deserves more views

[@YungLilBoii]

It wasn't a meme. It was a prophecy...

[@MoistMarsupial]

And that... is destiny fulfilled

[@carnage0685]

It makes me wonder if he actually meant like, when both are played at their maximum potential, Roy will almost always win, like, the character just naturally beats Fox or something.

[@memekip7499]

The year Is no longer 20XX...

[@RisingRevengeance]

Always fun to see "bad" characters do well

[@marlen0308]

DK gang rise up

[@beauhendershot7911]

Hey all im saying is that the bad did not have to be in quotation’s, Roy is indeed horrible

[@GatorOne-in7hk]

@@beauhendershot7911 He has disadvantages but he can’t be the sixth worst character if you can potentially win with him.

[@beauhendershot7911]

@@GatorOne-in7hk roy is way more exploitable than the other low tiers imo, his moves are just way too weak and other characters like young link, game and watch, mewtwo, dk, and big link are all way better than him

[@LemmyCetay]

@@GatorOne-in7hk We are talking about one of (if not) the best player in the game, this win isn't bc of roy, it's just that zain is a fucking good player

[@vampenga9277]

Growing up I played a lot of Roy. I wasn't aware/cared about the competitive side and the whole tiers thing back then so I just played for fun. I just liked him as a character. So all these years later seeing someone put genuine time and effort into practicing Roy and having it pay off is just phenomenal. Mad props to Don'tTestMe.

[@Icemario87]

same, here

[@spudsbuchlaw]

Things i've learned from this video: -Roy is the best character in melee -Zain is untestable, and therefore, unscientific

[@Icemario87]

the only things that matter in life are untestable.

[@Prod.4D]

@@Icemario87no cap

[@ladygeneveve3805]

​@@Icemario87i dunno, food tastes pretty good

[@Icemario87]

@@ladygeneveve3805 Cannibals say people taste like pork.

[@BiTreeFrog]

​ @Icemario87 I'd try it if given a legal chance.

[@andrew-coronel-9016]

ROY'S OUR BOY.

[@rosheafan]

the juxtaposition of Marth against Roy in Melee is pretty accurate to their games, lol Marth solos his game while Roy eats dirt and does 3 damage a hit

[@gonegone963]

ROY’S OUR BOY.

[@EverythingArchived703]

ROY'S OUR BOY.

[@jajajaun]

BOY’S OUR ROY.

[@Captaincookie_yt]

I CANT BELIVE DONT TEST ME THE ROY HAS BEATEN BOBBY BIG BALLLS

[@StanleySophana]

As someone who mains Roy, seeing DontTestMe win a tourney with Roy was the best thing to happen in Melee history

[@fangzgaming5510]

I main Luigi and Roy, seeing others play these two is awesome. Glad my mains finally getting respect.

[@fangzgaming5510]

*our mains getting respect*

[@kamariz3153]

🥲

[@Styxz__]

Same

[@simplyhoodie]

I main Link, so I love seeing low teirs do well in any form.

[@Kpsla]

Imagine being Ginger in what could have been the greatest comeback victory in Melee history and losing it all to a bottom 5 character.

[@IToastMySocks]

Eh, it could still be seen as a good comeback. Zain just overcame all the obstacles in his path and came out on top.

[@ghoulbuster1]

RIP BOZO

[@themangbro]

It's beautiful, poetic even.

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

​@@themangbro😂😂

[@ClassicBentobox]

I’ve always believed Roy is a slightly underrated character greatly overshadowed by how op Marth is

[@FFKonoko]

That is a pretty accurate summation. He is only slightly underrated. But the contrast to Marth makes the difference so palpable and painful.

[@bluedistortions]

Same

[@dinospumoni5611]

nah Roy is absolute fucking ass, Zain is just that good

[@ClassicBentobox]

@@dinospumoni5611 Say what you will even a year later I can’t in good faith say he’s in the same tier as Zelda and Bowser but maybe I’ll be shown wrong when someone pushes them this far

[@matthewzakrzewski1797]

When you were explaining the reverse up-b, zain did hit the right hit of it. It's just that the kill only works on stages with lower ceilings, particularly yoshi story and pokemon stadium.

[@OhSoSnake]

But with more % racked up, the kill potential DOES return: on medium stages, I'd wager that Roy UpB starts to kill around 20-30%, and maybe at like 50% on Dreamland and Fountain, but yeh.

[@amadora48]

it either kills at 0 or it doesnt kill you can maybe kill from a plattfrom tho @@OhSoSnake

[@tetermc]

​​@@OhSoSnake Yeah, this is completely false. The first hit of Roy's up B, which is the only one that connects when doing this trick, has insane upward knockbock to make sure it combos with the other hits. It's completely set knockback though, it will always send opponents the exact same distance regardless of percent. Super light characters like puff can be OHKO'd on certain stages guaranteed but only from platforms on others.

[@sipinosapa]

Finally. A skilled Roy

[@gravity_cow]

finally, Fox is no more

[@aicunix]

i think that this is a testament to the fact that the most important skill of melee is not wave-shining or being frame perfect. it's being able to adapt

[@MasterHeropon]

Low tier characters can lead to some fun match ups. If you win, you get people interested in that character and feel like a badass for your skill. If you lose, it's because you were using a low tier character for fun.

[@newjumpcityjosh9333]

This is how majority of DK players in Ultimate feel Lmao it’s always a win win for them 😂

[@Alexrun902]

Zain's truly earned the title of best player in the world since he's able to dominate tournaments with his Marth and be a low tier legend with Roy at the same time.

[@VestedUTuber]

I'm not surprised that this happened. Roy always felt like a character who could have been good, but was held back by just three significant issues - particularly, his questionable recovery, combo bait fast fall and his terrible range. If you ignore that he's basically just a rushdown-focused version of Marth. It takes a lot of effort, but if you can get around his flaws Roy _can_ be pretty solid, it's just that the difficulty of working around those flaws is the problem.

[@Appletank8]

I feel like the devs forgot to give Roy an actual sweet spot around his hand, it’s just not a sour spot. It’s so sad seeing that pool noodle of a sword get aerials that barely stun or knock back.

[@Bigzthegreat]

nah this is fox coppeium, because he played such a bad character he just got better

[@VestedUTuber]

@@Bigzthegreat Right, because obviously top tiers are "just good" and bottom tiers are "just bad", no other reason for it. Dumbass.

[@YyNRCyY]

I disagree. the one thing no one has commented on is the caliber of players in this tournament. U switch ginger with Hbox, Cody schwab, moky, jmook, mang0, amsa… literally any top 10 and he’s getting beat Roy is shit marth. Even with all the experience he has on a similar character he barely won. Testament to zains skills and Roy’s shitness

[@VestedUTuber]

@@YyNRCyY Yeah, that's an is-aught fallacy and a fallacy of four terms all wrapped up into a single argument. You've made no actually statements about Roy, all you've basically tried to say is that "the character is bad because the player would be beaten by other players if they were competing".

[@Pixel_Drip]

You can't even blame Ginger for the quit. He won 5 consecutive games AND reset the loser bracket just for it to all be gone in the blink of an eye. He still had the courtesy to admit defeat and say ggs to Zain. Amazing.

[@flameblade3]

This, to me, isn’t just a message to Roy mains, but to low tier players everywhere. Melee is one of the more tier heavy fighting games I know of, and seeing a near bottom tier take home a hard fought victory against both top tiers and bad matchups is such a strong message of “low tier doesn’t mean shit if you don’t let it”

[@tigerwarrior1787]

As Abridged Vegeta once said: "Powerlevels are Bullsh**!"

[@TheBrimmyRat]

@@tigerwarrior1787 “Come on, Roy, with your tier list placement? You are no Jigglypuff, you are no Marth, and you are CERTAINLY no spacie. You are just Roy.” “Well, you know what? FUCK TIER LIST PLACEMENTS, FUCK SPACIES. AND FUCK YOU.”

[@rayzuke1232]

This message should have always been clear since H-Box took championships with Jigglypuff.

[@FFKonoko]

​@Rayzuke I feel like people forgot that jigglypuff used to be rated way lower.

[@rayzuke1232]

@@FFKonoko For real. Only H-Box manages it to get into the top 10 with Jigglypuff consistently . No one else displayed that amount skill. But now seemingly no one seems to acknowledge that Jigglipuff is a low Tier character even when said character has only 2 viable moves as oppose to half of the moveset to be viable.

[@milesprower6110]

Is this the consequences of people ignoring a characters because of a table that the day they end up facing such character, it's unknown for them?

[@vocalcalibration8033]

Basically. A lack of matchup knowledge, not knowing what they need to do against a character with their own. It is low tier characters greatest strength at a competitive level.

[@Spiffyo]

Yeah a friend whose a pretty costant ultimate player doesn't really expect me to go in with Link to attack with my sword since he's generally considered a spacey. Hell I like playing Isabelle and trounch swordfighters as she and villager have a unique playstyle that they aren't used to.

[@bradfjord]

People quit out against low tiers most of the time. Makes it harder to learn to play and learn to fight the wacky low tiers.

[@thegamingguy1]

It's not like it's hubris that people don't know this matchup like that, there are just literally no other Roy players close to Zains skill. It's not that people are under cutting bad characters, Zain is just on a different level. I've been going to my local like 2 years and never played a Roy. Theyre just not out there, it's not that people ignore the matchup.

[@redhand8836]

@@thegamingguy1 actually it's a self fulfilling prophecy situation, happens in a lot of fighting games. Tier lists get made, usually early on before any tech or strats are heavily labbed. People focus on the higher tiers to lab, as the meta evolves it becomes based around the high tiers that were picked out early on(unless some wildcard shenanigans happen and a low tier gets bumped up due to someone actually developing tech for it early on instead of sleeping on it), after a while people only play the characters that got heavily labbed as high tiers in the games beginning, and the low tiers are now justified as such due to not having the same tools as the characters the meta is based off of now, so no one plays them because they're low tier. It's not necessarily hubris, or even a flawed system, it's just one of those quirks of the format. They're low tier so no one plays them, and no one plays them because they're low tier.

[@joeysummers8830]

How come Bobby gets his butt shown and everyone else gets a respectable face shot 😂

[@Masaru_kun]

Nice i appreciate you pointing out how impressive Ginger's loser's run was, beating Dawson, Aklo, KJH, Reeve, and BBB all in convincing manner.

[@typicalchris1941]

Just so you know Roy’s reverse up b only has one hit box the only reason why Jigglypuff didn’t die is because battlefield has a high ceiling. Yoshis story FD and PS are the only Tournament Legal stages where it will kill on the ground at Zero

[@apleb7605]

The prophecy of a Skilled Roy has been fulfilled.

[@canofcancer]

"Anyone can cook.... at melee."-the guy from the rat movie

[@ghoulbuster1]

Fear the man who practices one character 1000 times...

[@FantasyZoneGaming]

the charactors that can hurt themselves always seemed like they were hiding a secoret power. it looks tough, but he actually did it.

[@sonsauvage]

Any man with a Shiba as a pet has unlimited patience and dedication, and when it comes to training them, a sheer force of will. So I'm not surprised at the result at all 😂

[@juuseu4083]

As someone who never played professionally, but played Roy all the time as a kid, this really warms my heart to see an underrated character kick ass. 😎

[@Kmn483]

As a once hardcore dedicated roy main, it's nice that he finally got a tourney win. People really don't expect much out of him.

[@MushokuShiro]

Bro, thank you for this video. This needed to be documented, someone had to do it, and you did it. Here's a sub

[@MushokuShiro]

Man's even got a fresh cut to make the video. That's how you know he's committed.

[@keksidy]

It finally happened A skilled Roy beat Fox

[@lucaswickmansound]

“DontTestMe” has the same exact energy as “I’m not gonna sugarcoat it”

[@GoldenDeerGuy]

I was literally laughing about that meme last night 💀

[@twobrosgamers8426]

Falco: Give up low tier scum! Roy: I made a promise to take this trophy to Lilina, and I'm gonna keep it!

[@chipi4179]

Hector: TO WHO?

[@im50yearsold]

The same can be said for a lot of low tier/trash strategies in games with established metas when played at a high level. Bring in something really weird and throw your opponents off who are only used to playing within meta constraints

[@amiboking1178]

0:01 Red Yoshi, the sign of aMSa

[@SPMask]

Roy didn't change the meta, Zain did, still waiting on him to go back to him :/

[@Larsthecool]

The way this video is edited is as if Roy is some creepypasta 😭

[@jon630]

I'm not upset, I just don't want to have to deal with whatever I'm about to experience.

[@leogonzalez6751]

Congrats man ❤️ I know you were working hard on this

[@chillmadude]

i feel like "killed at this percent, which is like someone else killing at that percent" is really obvious to the point of being redundant for those who already play melee, while being an unintelligible string of gibberish for those who dont

[@PikangsFutaba]

The irony of the situation is that we usually underestimate those low tiers and end up paying the price big time for that, the lesson here is always think that you need to take the fight seriously right from the get-go, no matter what.

[@YyNRCyY]

I think rather it shows it’s the player not the character to some degree. Players like Armada arguably the goat on a character that hasn’t seen any high placings since his retirement. kinda strange with how dominant he was that none of the top players even tried to pick her up as even a secondary. Or players like Hbox who was on a crazy run several years ago and made people mald and rethink matchups as well as garner so much hate and bitching (Leffen when anything isn’t going his way or to his little goblin ass liking)

[@auraguard0212]

Isn't Roy just Marth with an enigmatic sweet spot?

[@arbytimber]

I LOVE this video format. You pitched the story together so perfectly. Like a melee summoning salt. Keep it up dude👍

[@DrDeez-do9zo]

Seeing people just wreck the competition with characters many would see as "bad" just makes melee feel so much more fun in a way i cant fully describe. Its also nice to know that playing these unvonventional characters started with hungrybox's jigglypuff.

[@hannibal8810]

mang0 was winning tourneys with puff before hbox, and the idea that a top tier like her is at all comparable to roy is ridiculous

[@bctalicorn809]

This was a very entertaining video, engaging all the way through, you should be proud! I've always loved Melee Roy, even if he's not good. He's just so janky so when you take a stock, it feels great. Plus, I just like seeing the fire effects :3

[@t-wrexgamer6294]

If you want to know how Roy’s reverse up b works it’s because the move is a multi hit, however in order to make it connect properly the first hit has a fixed knockback that is absurdly high, reversing the up b can let you hit that one hitbox without anything else and the fixed knockback is so high that the lighter characters in the game just straight out die to it, this includes puff who’s really the only one it matters against.

[@shocker7570]

it turns out roy is really our boy

[@Piggles64099]

This video was an absolute masterpiece and such a treat to watch! Keep on keep’n on!

[@eddiestilll]

i remember when the pandemic first started, this was like the craziest thing to happen to melee when donttestme dropped LOL

[@Nixdigo]

My biggest issue with your videos is I feel like you have three different introductions that all convey the same information. Words are a lot like photographs one photo is better than a whole album. Subscribed

[@milk-dq7fu]

Shoutouts to ginger. Took the loss well. Even if he was actually upset he did the right thing. The goat

[@zogbogbean2464]

He cried and ran, that’s not takin it well.

[@Cainb23]

in what world is that taking it well? taking it well is letting the game play out, congratulating the opponent, and not instantly getting of stream. not rage quitting and passive aggressively saying gg nd leaving stream instantly lmao

[@TheIrrelevantYT]

Zain, Round 2: "Then something just snapped, something inside of me." (DEADLY GUITAR RIFF)

[@samuelrodrigues9071]

_I didn't care anymore._

[@comagreeny7194]

8:30 It was not the hitbox, it was the map and jigglypuffs DI. Pretty sure Roy only has 1 hitbox with that huge of a set knockback.

[@BlueRadium]

ROY'S MY BOY! He was my main for my entire childhood. Glad little me' getting vilified

[@dogindagrass]

Roy was my main when I was a kid! Love seeing this stuff!

[@QuintBlitz]

As a true Roy main, this video instantly warms my heart, thanks for the upload!

[@QuintBlitz]

@@brothir Someone who plays Roy for fun in game 1, but switches to a higher tier should they lose.

[@SpeakerofWhispers]

You mean to tell me that Roy is, in fact, our boy?

[@sleepdrowsy7286]

Love these videos Nice to have a consistent melee channel to watch

[@MarMaxGaming]

Roy's smash attack is unreal, was always blown away by what it does to somebody not even at 40%

[@silaspq]

unless its the noodle hitbox which dosent even kill puff at 150 which is insanly sad

[@MarMaxGaming]

@@silaspq so true, I just remember getting blasted by some friends back in the day.. the noodle hit box is a damn shame. I saw that puff moment in the vid too, very sad!

[@GatorOne-in7hk]

I don’t think you can call Roy a low tier if he was able to do this. Don’tTestMe is a freaking hero to Roy mains everywhere!

[@chrispo7610]

P sure zain himself calls roy bad lol

[@kirbyfreakyt4695]

Also his hitboxes are broken and end early He's most certainly bad... But just like Little Mac, it always feels like he has a CHANCE when used right.

[@Non-disjunction]

Roy is incredible bad, but shares some neutral options with Marth, in which Zain is incredibly good with

[@tezereth]

He’s low because of some weakness in how he’s design, but never forget that he still do the work if you play properly.

[@Left4Cake]

I don't think characters are teired based on 1 guy getting insanely good with them.

[@hibernate44]

Videos like these are so important for getting new players. Great work.

[@Known_as_The_Ghost]

Incredible. We have found the skilled Roy. The Roy who can beat any Fox.

[@jimmygarza8896]

Can't wait for someone to roflstomp a tournament with Pichu/Kirby/Bowser.

[@mytinsaw]

Melee documentary creators are on a completely different level than any game documentary creators I've seen, and so is the Melee scene. As someone who lurks in the Ultimate scene sometimes, and by that I mean watching a tournament every so often, it's crazy to me that there are stories as recent as 2020 that are just LEGENDARY like this. You'd think this is a more popular story since it's about one of the WORST characters in the game being used close to perfection. Awesome video man, loved it.

[@Ryanzba]

I love the background music I feel like im making a venture through the sahara

[@JanaRucker-t3h]

(a Roy winning a tourney and everyone being impressed) Amsa:😐

[@eneruem]

Roy is way worse than Yoshi

[@kaded_]

I love this new era of melee video essays

[@Rouseable]

a png image of roy would be a crazy motivational poster.

[@budbear4127]

"I'm not upset" MAN LITERALLY RAGEQUIT THE GRAND FINAL LOL

[@MorphBall1]

8:35 he did get the correct hitbox, it just doesn't kill on that stage, BF ceiling is too high

[@cherryb0ng]

I totally understand Ginger's rage quit. Because I just rage quit in another game. But he sort of kept his composure about it.

[@carlosfromearth]

I have waited so many years for a player to show off Roy. Finally here.

[@GioGiotaro]

That was the most anime tournament I've ever seen, and I loved it!

[@xilencered7788]

Watching this and the story of the red Yoshi 👌

[@nicung4946]

The horribly stretched melee gives this such a retro melee feel

[@MitchBurns]

I love how at 3:30 you show a clip of Zane where he is literally in Ludwig’s steaming room helping him cheat. Lol

[@auraguard0212]

Roy ducking under attacks because he's so small is actually fairly accurate to the source material.

[@rosheafan]

Well, yeah. Melee IS the source material. Melee released before The Binding Blade.

[@auraguard0212]

@@rosheafan WHAT

[@totalphantasm]

I thought that pause-no context input was going to be followed with much much more rage lmao

[@GinkgoPete]

Roys sword isnt a noodle because you can still stab someone with a noodle. Its a POOL noodle.

[@ausdorian3252]

Roy is like Gohan absolute crap till you git gud and unlock it's potential

[@Arcademan09]

Rage quits an online tournament live "I'm not angry" He's seething so hard

[@LCDRformat]

"Proved that any Roy could win any tournament," "ANY" Roy?!? You sure bout that

[@Leuhim]

Brother, specialists are menaces, they be pulling up with a "bad" character and destroy the competition

[@gmanji909]

Bobby got bopped so bad he didn't even make it in the video 😂

[@TaylorSnitch-uk3fk]

it is so nice to see that one mand did it something people wil never forget the yoshi god

[@robinthebird6421]

When you make it to grand finals on losers side, its harder because you have to win 2 sets, in other words 6 games.

[@k-boi420]

There are two types of bad characters: Ones that are legitimately terrible to play as and are a crutch And those that most are extremely resourceful if used correctly.

[@KindaKaon]

Completely mad to me you’re only at 3k subs. Keep at it man, you have such a talent

[@Riako]

I'm convinced that characters are only low tier because no one has truly used them to their full potential. (...excluding the times when the character, genuinely, actually and definitely sucks...)

[@BananaMana69]

Roys our boy! Roys our boy! Roys our boy!

[@gamesincharacter5106]

Roy’s our boy! Roy’s our boy! Roy ‘s our boy!

[@ComebackGAWD]

Roy been underrated since melee cuz he was so hard to get. He went so hard he made the main cast

[@cameronsmith9562]

I haven't seen HMW so silent on the commentary before. Astonishing feat from Zain.

[@DuskoftheTwilight]

Roy's our boy! Roy's our boy!

[@ash1yn]

Playing Roy in ultimate and then playing him in melee feels like: “wait this isn’t Roy it’s just bad marth wut”

[@Prikense]

the reverse upb only kills jiggly and G&W at 0% with no DI from the floor on pokemon stadium and yoshis, so even with bad DI at 8:15 on that stage at that height it would have never killed

[@runningdecadeix4780]

I see this as pretty simple. He warned them not to test him, and they tested him. So they lost and he won. Shouldn't have tested him, that's all

[@muaaadib]

bro made an entire doc on zain's roy in slippi ranked

[@darkwalkervisiondominguez1691]

That’s why melee never die