When all you have is Hype (Kickstarter Video Followup)

A long-delayed followup due to an upcoming move. Here I discuss not just the nature of Kickstarter, but the nature of card games, hype bubbles, and what happens when they burst.
Please comment regarding if you want me to look more at the production side or design side of games.
Follow my Patreon!: / kohdok
Follow me on Twitter!: / kohdok
#tcg #tradingcardgame #gamedev #kickstarter

[@RolandTitan]

Absolutely production side is worth making videos about! Everything from art to factories to marketing budgets. Personally I'm still learning so I'm avoiding making that kind of content right now.

[@babybuussj4]

I like all aspects of card games you cover. From opening boxes and showing a large batch of cards, the artwork, and how they work, to the mechanics and gameplay of an individual game, to the business side of things (kickstarter, hype, printing, building social media presence, when a game looks to be unsustainable in the long term, etc.) It's all cool stuff, I like basically of it and hope you keep it up.

[@ianmcguire5231]

From my limited point of view, given enough time, gumption, and iteration, anyone can stumble through the basics of game design through a flurry of design and playtest. But information on the production side of our hobby is often held under lock and key. So more videos aimed at explaining manufacturing, supply-chains, distribution, enlisting artists, and more would be quite beneficial.

[@Buzterer]

A video about the production side every now and then would actually be nice

[@magusofthebargain]

for anyone who wants to know, I have calculated the average SorceryTCG pledge as 4.5 boxes (a little less than a case of 6 boxes). It seems that most backers wanted to try playing the game but were on the fence about spending too much on a new game.

[@iamcup7356]

Both are interesting topics! From game design and mechanics, to manufacturing and production, It's always nice too dive into the details behind the hobby. Good luck with the move!

[@fennecfoxfanatic]

I'd love to hear about more of the production side of things! It has never occurred to me that there are specialized card game programs. Here I was thinking everything was compiled in photoshop and excel spreadsheets lol

[@TayyabTV]

Hi Kohdok! If you'd like a run through of our workflow we'd love to show you some of the software we use to develop our upcoming TCG! We use NANDeck which is the best open source software for this. The dev behind NANDeck is awesome too, he's constantly answering questions on his forums to this day. Also I wanted to add, you're 100% right about these printing companies being overrun with huge print runs for big games, its the same in the UK too. I spoke to a few European printers that are doing print runs for alot of the big TCG's and they just did not have the printing capacity for around a year. Apologies if this is a duplicate comment, for some reason comments are being weird and returning an error for me. Thanks!

[@OneWetWombat]

Hi there! So Fabled Sagas has actually been doing cards through Patreon for a year, sending out over tens of thousands of cards to our patrons. Not only that but we had a successful run with our Sample Packs as well selling 2000 of them. I am sorry you feel that way about our game but it also feels rather uninformative as well because we have been around for some time. As a game that doesn’t have the backing of someone like Alpha investments and missing the boom of indi TCG’s we have strived to deliver a quality product and consistently deliver to our buyers. Thank you though for at least noticing us!

[@TempoLOOKING]

Just like air powered cars

[@Unormalism]

Hey Kohdok, I like both! Your game design advice is great and what drew me in but your advice on business is invaluable for people entering the community. I'd say make what feels right.

[@Berzerkarin]

I just love hearing you talk about card games from any aspect

[@Schmoltis]

For the comment you made on the average spent on Fabled Sagas being high, it's not uncommon lately for people who like to both play and sell. The average on Grand Archive was about $600 and both me and my friend bought into that as well as Fabled Sagas. We open some, play with it, and sell what we don't want. A lot of the kick starters go up so it really helps fund the hobby and reward the first time owners. But I definitely understand the concern with those who are just planning to sell or invest.

[@jascat7297]

So that's why Shadow Era felt familiar! It was a Wow clone!.. I wonder if the digital version still exists.

[@ShadowEclipex]

I like how you cover all aspects of card games. From game design to production..

[@kainhighwind2]

Back when Universus was "Universal Fighting System", they used a bunch of artists from DeviantArt.

[@shawnjavery]

Its really hard to design a tcg that will take off at this point. It has to be intuitive enough to play that its easy to spread, complicated enough that there's enough depth to keep a hard core player base, and unique enough that it doesn't drive the player base back to any of the bigger card games. Really just an impossible task, you'd need years of trial and error to get a decent result I think.

[@josephpurdy8390]

The on set of choice paralysis. When players attempt to build a custom deck, or the cards they play on a turn. Then, there is also length of time it takes for a player to complete their turns. The more unique a TCG becomes the longer the learning curve becomes. People may either adore, or hate games that are vastly different from ones they have experience playing.

[@WesJFin]

I JUST busted out my ShadowEra physical cards haha!! How funny how much things changes but stay the exact same. It was Pre-Hearthstone, and I believe it was a part of the presentation to higher-ups at Blizzard to say "look what we could do with the dying WoWTCG on a digital platform." ITs been so long since that one but I don't remember any Hype anywhere outside of the community and maybe on the kickstart site itself. nothing in the other TCG communities i was in at the time(MtG/Yugioh)

[@zutubetiles]

I like your game design critiques.

[@iandegiovani4703]

Wait.... Neopets is still a thing? :0 Haven't heard of it in almost 2 decades :0

[@lawrencetyrpa]

A video about different aspects of the production would be great. And thank you for this one!

[@TheIronicRaven]

A great video and tons of great points! Gotta have a good game, hype can't keep the train going. Also for videos, I far prefer the videos on game design, but I thoroughly enjoy and appreciate the production videos too! A card game needs both sides.

[@byronswain7569]

The cardmaking software look would be neat. I think your experience both with design and production would make that very useful :)

[@foyoGames]

Fabled Sagas - i havent even heard of that 1

[@mamiff1019]

I recommend checking it out! Though I may be a little biased as I am on the team for it.

[@foyoGames]

@@mamiff1019 will do

[@jared8439]

1000% please make more video's about the production side of things. The different steps, market pricings for each step, etc.

[@Drunkninja101]

Been working on a game for years. I really appreciate your content. One day maybe I'll see mine cross the finish line

[@-l-2377]

I can't speak for everyone else, but I really like Fabled Sagas. I've been in the community for a bit and it's always been super personable and friendly. I've followed you for awhile Kohdok, always liked your content, surprised you haven't checked them out yet.

[@FerraticaTheBard]

Genuinely think it's probably for the best Kohdok is the one who has that pitch bible - he may not like the show, but he's ALL ABOUT preservation and archiving this stuff, so it's in good hands.

[@zepharcher]

I'd love more production-based content! I've always been interested in all types of game design, and TCGs are no different.

[@wingmage1]

I'm interested in hearing what your take is on grand archive. It's another Kickstarter game that seemed like it should have been a failure, but the game seems to bounce back strong from every mistake. I've been really impressed with how they've handled their launch, especially since the devs don't seem experienced in this industry.

[@MrZer093]

Oh I’m just waiting for its death. I was interested until I heard about their “collection tournaments”. They’re being gassed up as a “different way to enjoy competition” when it’s quite literally pay to win. You show off your collection of cards that you acquired and judges grade it and the prizes get rewarded based on it. It’s absurd

[@wingmage1]

@@MrZer093 1. If you don't want to enter the collection contests, don't enter it. The majority of their events are still normal gameplay focused tournaments 2. It's not about who spends the most money, as at most, you'd only need one copy of every card. The competition is selecting (or trading for) 30 cards from your collection to maximize points based on bonuses that aren't revealed until the day of 3. What's wrong with having a contest for people who choose to be collectors rather than players? As long as it doesn't alienate the playing side, let them have their own way to interact with the community.

[@torondin]

Honestly, I was hyped for BSS, but then I found that I couldn't find anywhere that actually stocks even booster packs in... Probably my entire province. I wanted to pick it up (did get each of the four initial starter decks) and try and drum up some local support for the game, but I feel like it's probably going to die on the vine, just like the original game. Ironically the original Battle Spirits was a bit of an inspiration for my own game, to the point I stopped working on mine when I heard about BSS.

[@JakeCosplays]

my friends game got showcased at a convention called " #factions " a few years back, im not sure of much more info but what ive seen him post. you might want to message him about factions.

[@majoukrahe1437]

I'm really interested in hearing about the art site! I know a few artists who might like to know about that sort of thing. :)

[@UnderTheSkin13]

I know the world's most famous TCG is called "Magic" but "Shadow Era" just sounds so generic it would never stick.

[@PutoMedicoBrujo]

if im not mistaken Shadow Era was an online card game first and one that got kind of popular like about 7years(?) i remember playing it online back then and juat recently heard about it becoming a physical game idk

[@admiralcasperr]

One of my qualms with the TCG model is that if you're looking to play constructed, each pack is 1 maybe playable card and 14 small recyclable paper rectangles. This is what Magic was degraded to. If any common has a more powerful version as a rare, any generally open Friday game night in an LGS will only be truly fun if you deck is all rares, keeping in mind that you print 14 chaff cards for 1 actual card.

[@PeanutButterSteve]

I think videos on production and software are valuable. Introducing those tools to people who are passionate about card games may inspire them, or make their game idea seem more achievable and move forward with it. This could give us some great games!

[@nZektor]

Your comment about certain cards being scarce and forcing a community via cooperative trading reminded me of world of warcraft. Before dungeon finder people were forced to make friends to have consistent dungeon/questing parties. Server communities felt tighter with people knowing names about who'd help and who'd steal. I think thats why I like TCGs so much, it forces us to set certain dates to meet up, trade, play and socialize.

[@EnordAreven]

I'd love your advice on production because I'd love to make my own games for game night

[@eg_nova9197]

🎉 THE PRODUCTION ELEMENTS! 🎉 PLEASE.

[@Lcngopher]

The expensive mtg cards from alpha are the powerful ones that would be played in any deck with that color. Cards that are bad and just dont see play are actually fairly cheap. Alpha healing salves, the white member of the boon cycle, are about $35 market price on tcg player. Other versions can be bought for less than a dollar

[@MassiveSwordAndCards]

"Pre-shuffling" your print files is not really a thing. You could do it, but you would have to manually make your booster packs yourself like I do. This is because you would have to order all your cards in one huge deck/brick and break it apart after it ships.

[@0penthaughtz]

Kohdok you could write a few books about card games, with the knowledge you have shared over the years.

[@joespooner3057]

When did they announce a new neopets game I must of completely missed that

[@corvusblackfeather456]

ah, the tulip craze from the Dutch(?), where they would trade acres of land or a year's worth of pay for a dang bulb. granted, i am exaggerating.

[@Milagro_Man]

Ah, back in my day we called those games Metazoo

[@davidv2002]

that’s what disney lorcana is, all hype

[@ccggenius]

Technically it didn't happen to tulips, it happened to contracts that PROMISED tulips.

[@thefollowingisatest4579]

The reason the loot box comparison is accurate and has become more accurate due to the ever increasing avarice of conpanies is that it relies on the same exact paychological mechanisms and scarcity culture of the loot box. Like, sure, you always get something and you can potentially trade stuff away, but you also always get something at an "every spin a winner" slot machine. I have a deep love of card games but i do not think ignoring the seedier aspects is helpful.

[@Kohdok]

I've addressed this before. What you are describing totally discounts the collaborative aspect. You can stop buying packs any time and use your supply and remaining funds to get the cards you want directly. You can't collaborate in gambling. The table cannot conspire to build a perfect Poker hand, and you cannot sell your winning Poker hand to someone else. There are games that push more loot-boxey elements in their pack design, and I have called that game out (MTG, because of course it's MTG)

[@retektereptest]

Hey I remember shadow era, our group mucked about with it after wow got discontinued but then just lost interest.

[@chepawam]

Caan you send me the link wher you buy the case for 25 dollars? I really want this D:

[@SkylerLinux]

I have seen an ancient, as in late 90s early 00s Card Maker program

[@RyokoYoichi]

Production aspect is interresting and it would be fresh set of new videos

[@BaronKrool]

I've been against the booster model for a long time, but your defense on it is very clear headed and I respect it. Maybe one day the model can be allowed to exist in a place where it can't become exploitative, or directly appeal to the people who like exploiting.

[@pyredynasty]

I think you should cover all aspects of game design and the business of it. One part of printing in China that has tripped up a lot of Kickstarters I've backed it that China takes the months of December, January, and sometimes February off. They don't tell you this because it's just assumed common knowledge. So they'll give you an estimate of 2 months but really it's 5.

[@TeamWonderland0]

Production for sure!

[@philobskera334]

A video about production and other aspects of card games would be cool

[@richie2101]

I watched your Video but all i could concentrate on was Ina. Are you a Takodachi?

[@Azurite_D]

He’s mentioned watching other hololive members (I think Noel) in the past

[@stevengracey5061]

All of it. Game design thru production....all of it is interesting

[@mattcanters]

I have all the more respect for you after realizing you are a Takodachi.

[@blightyfrogs]

I would like to give a shoutout to Algomancy, a game that is about to enter kickstarter. Its going to be a buy-it-you're done product where you draft a deck as you play the game.

[@stresseddude]

How does one partner with Upper Deck? I thought they print and distribute?

[@ismaelrodriguez1240]

Hello

[@alfblack2]

I am more a gamer / collector ( dabble in game design). I will be interested in topics of ccg production. Not that I have plans to do so commercial. Only PnP or fan expansions.

[@MajinRaviel]

Yes! everything! I wanna know everything

[@badwrongfun5541]

Could you maybe do scans of the Redekai pitch bible and upload them to Internet Archive or something? I'm not a Redekaki fan, but I'm sure even a non-destructive scan would be greatly appreciated by them.

[@ethanc1121]

What is that switch game on the left?

[@chaoticjexak]

'the game has to be a hit!' me with my 3 boxes of accleracers collectable card game cards that are apparently rare and sought after now and fetch a reasonable price per card.

[@Kohdok]

I guarantee you it is because they are hotwheels.

[@chaoticjexak]

@@Kohdok to an extent, sure. maybe it also just has something to do with availibility? like i recall they never had booster boxes of packs, only 1 pack blisters and 1 pack in each car box. but i wish they werent so epensive. i kinda wanna build enough of a collection of them to either build a pod's worth of decks for multiplayer, or maybe a draft cube of some sort.

[@TempoLOOKING]

​@@Kohdok.hack, and wyvern too for boxes. As a Stargate fan seeing the prices on the CCG hurt.

[@Ratstail91]

I tried kickstarter once. People took one look at my page and said "Ya dun goofed!" I've since released Potion School without KS (Sent you a copy, actually)

[@user-ix3yh9pi4k]

Are you going to review new upcoming tcg Grotto Beasts ?

[@alfblack2]

Dang. Love how cheap dead ccgs are there. people here dont know how to discount. there was a seller of a Guardians booster box, and they still wanted retail SRP for it. Jez..

[@ameryaser3987]

Design or production? Why not both. I especially like the former.

[@mathuasher9184]

Positive comment

[@Arkonu]

I kinda wish you'd open a box of Shadow Era. You know, just for fun.

[@lightningtiger13]

Both, but do gameplay and do production as you learn.

[@agentcairney1802]

Is there a card game that has all the sins of flawed card games?

[@prodigiousthetarnished198]

Both, both is good

[@gregmartell1235]

Do video of Medabots 🤖 Toys, Game and Anime. Pleeeeeeease! 🙏

[@RealLockheedMartin]

MetaZoo!

[@MrZacchery]

My favorite card game is cribbage; much better than all these gimmicky wasteful products. You might as well be shilling shampoo Kodak! At least it is meant to dissappear after use, less to regret.

[@MrZer093]

Your comments remind me of all those “pay to earn games” people kept trying to hype up all through 2022. They all talked about how it’s gonna make everybody money with the use of sellable assets and the like when the game isn’t fun so no one buys in except people who planned to sell “when it gets big” when it never does. And this is assuming the game ever releases to begin with and wasn’t just a blatant scam rather than a legal one like the rest are

[@Rayquaza894]

Where the SVE videos at? Man ignoring all these new tcgs

[@Kohdok]

Where’s the watching the whole video before posting at? Man ignoring all this new video.