When the British almost sank their own ships - The Battle of Heligoland Bight

[@korben600]

The British Empire: No, we cannot identify our own ships. Luckily we have enough ships to overcome that failing.

[@Septimus_ii]

But the more ships you make, the more friendly fire targets you're providing

[@jacobrudder7582]

@@Septimus_ii and so the vicious cycle continues

[@andrewstackpool4911]

Stupid comment; as I have said poor C3 including from the Admiralty over primitive systems inclusing navigational and as shown a poor tactical environment. Tell me. What would you have done.

[@connoroneill9406]

@@andrewstackpool4911 are you stupid?

[@JackDevight]

@@andrewstackpool4911 use intelligible grammar for one

[@MrMedievalLord]

This just goes to show: Sometimes goodenough is just not good enough.

[@Marinealver]

Name was changed to itsmeitsme

[@ericdickison7995]

He redeemed himself at Jutland, his scouting was second to none

[@nikitaostrovsky8416]

What a counter-prophecy

[@boyteebah3794]

from what i heard, goodenough studied to become a clown but was recruited by the RN

[@warhistory1895]

Hey, my joke.

[@jdotoz]

Gentlemen, as you know, the objective of this mission is to attack heavy cruisers. I'd like to express my personal gratitude to the Grand Fleet for providing some in the event that the enemy doesn't cooperate.

[@wildewaffle9790]

“Tyrwhitt ordered 20 destroyers to begin torpedo runs on the light cruiser.” World of Warships players: 😳😳😳😳

[@alexalbrecht5768]

Pain, agony even

[@matthewbadley5063]

Engage torpedo beats

[@Akren905]

Its about to get foamy fast lol

[@pickeljarsforhillary102]

Chat was screaming: Mainz Mainz Mainz Mainz

[@Fish1701A]

3 T6, 4 T7 and 13 T8 DDs. Who needs balancing,....

[@decentish8546]

You know things are bad when Beaty is the most competent one present.

[@jannestiemes4328]

I thought it went Goodenough Padoemtsss

[@rob5944]

The real criticism lies with the staff officers surely, misdirection and woeful communication, plus a certain degree of arrogance.

[@pickeljarsforhillary102]

Captain Mightaswell was present as well as he cousin (twice removed) Surewhynot.

[@omnipotence8826]

Beatty*

[@hmsrenown7801]

@@omnipotence8826 Fam, you know its him. This isnt grammar school.

[@Hoddevik92]

In Norway we have a expression saying: go to helgoland. It means that you wish someone to go to a remote nasty place and its sounds simular to go to hell in norwegian so its nicer way to tell someone to go to hell.

[@keegs1996]

The Royal Navy's days since last cock up counter has reset to 0

[@historigraph]

'Days since our last nonsense - 0'

[@Admiral_Jezza]

K-Class Submarine Moment

[@Noah_Levy]

A bit of a happy comedy, compared to Frederik Knudsen's video on the "Battle" of May Island last month. Quality, but utterly maddening.

[@Marinealver]

They are now on par with the British Army.

[@riograndedosulball248]

@@Noah_Levy I got unbelievably anxious with that video. It's the text example of "but wait, there's more!"

[@hmsrenown7801]

I haven't watched this video yet, but I'm assuming the general thing is that the British are incompetent, and are saved due to the germans thinking that they are playing 4th dimension chess

[@artanarchist]

on point

[@Ronald98]

spot on mate...

[@obiwankenobi4252]

Yeah, pretty much

[@DidMyGrandfatherMakeThis]

There's a distinct difference between "incompetent" and "almost laughably useless", especially this early in the war I believe it is fair to say that Royal Naval high-ups were steaming smugly towards the latter territory.

[@PHDarren]

Add fog for fun.

[@danielorr8070]

Hmm, it seems that our ships have trouble communicating with each other, and officers lower down do not speak unless spoken to. I sure hope this doesn't bite us in the ass in a future engagement.

[@sfs2040]

Beaty was asked several times by Jellico to give info on the High Seas Fleet but didn't. Otherwise this is hella accurate. 😂

[@dr.vikyll7466]

And they never fixed this! Even in North Africa during WW2 they lost Cyraneica and the Egyptian desert to the DEK and Italians because of this.

[@andrewstackpool4911]

You will find that C4 and the input of officers has changed significantly since then though your comments for then are pretty correct. Ships these days tend to involve input from all levels and training programs are far more sophisticated involving simulators ashore and exercises at sea.

[@lolasdm6959]

Why have you not informed you were underfire? I do not speak unless spoken to.

[@andrewstackpool4911]

@Críostóir Ashtin Negative C3. Command, control, communications. Jellucoe had sound command but scattered control (Beatty very dubious) and appalling communications at all levels, including Admiralty. The combination apart generally from Goodenough, failed to give Jellicoe the intelligence he needed.

[@historigraph]

Today's video has been a great change of pace from the Malaya series, so I hope you enjoyed it. The Malayan campaign will return and conclude later in the summer- so stay tuned! If you like my content, please consider supporting on patreon, it makes a world of difference to me: www.patreon.com/historigraph Notes and corrections for the video: - I misidentified the battlecruiser New Zealand as Australia

[@joelmontgomery4837]

Can we get a short video on the 2nd battle of heligoland bight. As there isnt much content on it.

[@GeneralThargor]

confuses Australia with NZ, but they are pretty much the same anyway!

[@LordInter]

Germany; "deploy all the cruisers" British Empire; "deploy part of that one Squadron, that little one over there" this is in reference to the general numbers not so much this one battle

[@sam74mumm]

The battle was on edge when Goodenough was ordered to hunt down himself. Luckily he couldn´t find himself xp

[@Robert399]

"For the next hour or so, there was a lull in the battle, as the British had run out of friendly ships to attack." Edit: Wow the British were lucky. I kept waiting for a British submarine to torpedo one of their battlecruisers.

[@Alejandro_One_and_Only]

keys: i see two cruisers goodenough: ok im gonna go help you with my four cruisers keys: oh my god now there are six cruisers goodenough: damn ill get every ship i have there keys: *screaming intensifies*

[@andrewstackpool4911]

You slander a very professional and competent officer. But I guess Socialist sums it

[@Luke.Skywodka]

Best comment!

[@saturnv2419]

You know your communication is terrible when Beaty is the one that know the most.

[@cogidubnus1953]

You might have imagined Beatty learning from this the paramount importance of close communication between all units, and particularly between forward units and their parent fleets...well, you might have imagined...

[@untruelie2640]

Fun Fact: The Heligoland Bight is called "Deutsche Bucht" (German Bight) in German. However, the german name of this battle is "Seegefecht bei Helgoland" (Sea-Skirmish near Heligoland).

[@recklessroges]

The area is also called "German Bite" in the English shipping forecast. www.fatbadgers.co.uk/britain/shipping.htm

[@Septimus_ii]

The British called it a battle, the Germans called it a Gefecht :D

[@paprizio1073]

@@Septimus_ii I'm sure the same can be said about the Indian Ocean raid, or how the Japanese saw it, a "battle" of Ceylon.

[@Dylan-lw1xc]

The toughest enemy the Royal Navy faces is often themselves and there own officers.

[@gaffalstudios3617]

thats true for the entire brittish military for ww1 and 2

[@youraveragescotsman7119]

@@gaffalstudios3617 It was better in WWII, since I'm pretty sure most Officers had the shit kicked out of them for being dumb.

[@DidMyGrandfatherMakeThis]

Isn't that the same with most militaries? The US, French, German and Italians can't at all claim to be without useless or reckless officers and high ups.

[@Dylan-lw1xc]

@@DidMyGrandfatherMakeThis I would say they did have some bad apples by for the most part showed higher competency then Britain in most cases, other than Italy maybe.

[@gaffalstudios3617]

@@DidMyGrandfatherMakeThis In many cases true but in generall it is bafeling how many examples of brittish officers being incompitent there is. Of course every military have some incompititent ones but since the brittish aswell as the french often recruted officers based on social class and not skill (atleast during ww1), you can see the catastrofic effect, with exaples like the battle of the somme where overconfident officers led thier units strait into machinegun traps and as a result the incredidable casualties of the battle.

[@benlaskowski357]

The German BCs Seydlitz, Von der Tann, Derfflinger and Moltke were stuck in the Jade Estuary due to low tide during the battle. Had they been able to sail the fight would have been dramatic.

[@untruelie2640]

Yeah, Hipper made the mistake to assume that the whole bight was clear because there was no fog in Wilhelmshaven. When he learned that the opposite was true, the tide was already too low.

[@benlaskowski357]

@@untruelie2640 😳 Didn't know that!!

[@andrewstackpool4911]

It would have been a precursor to Jutland but I suggest Beatty would have taken the field.

[@sfs2040]

"Yeah that's ok, we don't need the help of the most powerful battleship fleet in history for this. That's ok."

[@notsopointlessblogs9420]

Imagine being informed about who is in your op? Why would you need that, just shoot at everyone

[@jamiengo2343]

We didn’t exactly have officers the like of Nelson and Collingwood did we.

[@boobah5643]

No, you had Beatty. And while he didn't manage to make _this_ battle a disaster, the undeserved reputation he earned here would haunt the Royal Navy for the rest of his career.

[@PaulfromChicago]

Jellicoe basically did the impossible at Jutland. However, Churchill had saddled him with Beatty, which made pretty much everything worse.

[@Banginyermamsince93]

When WW1 began our officers spent the last 15 years cleaning and painting their ships

[@grlt23]

no, but they were Goodenough ;)

[@jimmymullen3016]

@@boobah5643 Although with all the action taking place at under 5,000yds and the battlecruiser squadron being so effective here you can kind of see why he placed such importance on rate of fire over accuracy.

[@thommunistmanifesto]

I just bought "The great war at sea, naval atlas" and was very confused as to what was going on, made me smile to see that same exact page im looking at on your end screen. Great video, cheers.

[@kingofburgundy6323]

A topic that I find interesting is the fall of Saigon. And how US personnel and 5,000 south Vietnamese civilians were evacuated while the NVA were fighting in the city itself.

[@johnlavery3433]

Beaty intensifies

[@roberthara1603]

"The battle's result was Goodenough" - British Admiralty (Probably)

[@xxnightdriverxx9576]

You are really pumping the videos out at enormous speed now that you are doing this full time. Thank you Historigraph. Your videos are really awesome!

[@Warmaster_24]

In all honesty who else loves the artwork that’s put on the thumbnails of each video.

[@distinctjackal9016]

Looks like the British forgot to turn friendly fire off

[@sinnerdegarah1952]

I must have said “thank god” every other minute when friendly fire was avoided or you said survivors were picked up. A extraordinarily lucky and sadly bleak story. Thank you for covering it!

[@napoleonibonaparte7198]

In other words, another normal day in southern England.

[@iainmalcolm9583]

Great video. Animation & narration spot on.

[@B61Mod12]

That was wholesome, thank you Historiograph and fallen sailors.

[@dracorex426]

Commodore fucking Goodenough. What a name.

[@victoriacyunczyk]

The actions of HMS Lurcher show that heroic acts are not only committed in battle, but after as well.

[@Dog.soldier1950]

Fleet Communication skills suitable for Trafalgar for the 20th century, not so much

[@Will_CH1]

"Respectfully submitt that i may be supported. Am hard pressed."

[@QurikyBark32919]

The last name ‘goodenough’ is the most British thing I’ve ever seen.

[@Tuning3434]

Pretty sure it was HMS New Zealand instead of HMAS Australia: the latter was stationed in the South East in the latter half of 1914 (to Spee's chagrin), while HMS New Zealand together with HMS Lion was host to a Tsar party in June 1914 in the Baltic. Nevertheless, great video. I was just reading up on this action in 'Castles of Steel' by Massie last night and was interested to get a bit of a visual overview. Unfortunately records of positions where spotty due to mist and the fact all units where forced to depend on depend on '3 days worth of dead reckoning'.

[@redtob2119]

you deserve so many more views you’re one of my favourite channels

[@EdungeonLOL]

I thought I heard you before and then searched and you were a paradox caster on some streams. Nice to see another work from you man. Good video.

[@historigraph]

Thanks. Yeah I was the HOI4 community manager until a couple of weeks ago

[@rob5944]

Beatty did rather well I think, this is in contrast to his perceived performance at Jutland. Perhaps the above account illustrates how much the fog of war can affect events and that we should not judge anything or anyone too harshly (particularly when analysing matters that happened long ago). What is clear however is the splendid performance of the British battle cruisers when they are used in the way in which their design intended.

[@Alex_Guy1011]

The largest navy in the world, and couldn't even identify their own ships properly. They would probably hold fire on German ships instead of engaging them too, but i don't blame them. It was World War 1, the weather was poor, the optics weren't as advanced back then, and the crews themselves weren't as experienced. There were also communication problems between the officers and enlisted men.

[@bensnowden2540]

“But sir! When we have this many ships it’s difficult to know which are ours!” -admiralty probably

[@DidMyGrandfatherMakeThis]

Modern weaponry and battle weapon technology let down by Napoleonic era limitations and training. Thank God we had Jackie Fisher in charge of the admiralty for a few years before the start of the war.

[@JTA1961]

Upstairs / Downstairs & all that.

[@looinrims]

There’s no excuse for involved units to not be given the full plan and belligerents of an operation they’re supposed to conduct

[@neilwilson5785]

A naval world without radar or efficient air recce. what a nightmare. The radios were not great either.

[@centurymemes1208]

i love it. its all about luck and intelligence. radar made things boring af

[@keiranallcott1515]

I think you’ll find that hmas Australia was actually operating in the pacific at that time, HMS New Zealand did participate in the battle

[@andrewstackpool4911]

No, Australia was with the bc fleet. She missed Jutland as she was in drydock.

[@keiranallcott1515]

@@andrewstackpool4911 you are aware that this is about the battle of heligoland bite .?, not the battle of Jutland , hmas Australian was in dry dock at the time of Jutland as she had a collision with New Zealand

[@keiranallcott1515]

And hmas Australian was operating at the beginning of 1914 in the pacific , mainly off Rabaul and the Solomons after the occupation of German New Guinea and in response to the German pacific fleet escaping from Tsingtao to Germany

[@keiranallcott1515]

And she didn’t arrive in England until December 1914

[@thepuncakian2024]

8:23 This is literally that scene from SpongeBob where SpongeBob is a hall monitor and Patrick is yelling at him over walkie talkie

[@month32]

Repeat after me kids! "Light Cruisers are made of Citadels!"

[@lordofvapor9476]

I just found your channel today and you upload how great

[@miguelmontenegro3520]

How are your commanding skills? You know? They're Goodenough

[@rob5944]

One battle in which Beatty gave a good a account of himself it seems.

[@Dylan-lw1xc]

Have you ever considered do a video with the channel, operations room?

[@willek1335]

How about they cover a battle together. Each channel provide a point of view from either side of the conflict, but is limited by fog of war. That wound be cool.

[@Dylan-lw1xc]

@@willek1335 yes like montemayors videos from Japanese POV

[@micahistory]

Great video. Really enjoyed it

[@mafiousbj]

I wonder how many jokes Commodore Goodenough had throughout his career...I bet even his wife mocked him with a name like that ^^

[@regidelthegeneralthatzappe4469]

Amazing content as always.

[@geordiedog1749]

Great video. Keep it up!!

[@--Dani]

Excellent content as always 👍

[@johne7100]

Poor and negligent communication seems to have been a hallmark of British operations: witness the scuttling of the German High Seas Fleet when Fremantle didn't bother telling the German commander that the deadline for handing over his ships, preferring to go for a cruise instead.

[@momchilandonov]

12:12 funny pronunciation of Koln :D. It's more like Kyoln.

[@jere9maz]

been looking forward all week!

[@mikeotero9838]

Thanks!

[@davidlees2963]

HMAS Australia was in the Pacific at this time looking for the German Far Eastern squadron (which ended up being sunk at the Battle of the Falklands). HMS New Zealand was in Force K.

[@zetectic7968]

Very interesting & highlights the lack of co-ordination. Bristish submarines,mostly just observing. Btw Tyrwhitt has a silent W.

[@bloodrave9578]

You'd think the Royal Navy would fix the shortfall in communication exposed here by Jutland nearly 2 years later. They didn't, what's it with Beatty and fiascos?

[@untruelie2640]

The crazy thing is that Beatty wasn't really the incompetent one here. Shocking, I know.

[@EdMcF1]

It took the Admiralty over 50 years (IIRC longer) to get the benefits of lime juice.

[@user-sc9oy1kz8g]

@@EdMcF1 To be fair they didnt have the scientific knowledge we have today and it was less thsn obvious. The lemon juice didnt keep its anti scurvy juice forever and on top of that sailors would still get scurvy after a certain point. They were also misled because seal meat also stopped scurvy so all they saw was sailors not drinking lemon yet still not getting scurvy on the long Arctic voyages. Easy to be confused.

[@davidwolfberg8453]

9:11 Task failed successfully

[@angusdeadman6425]

Another amazing video! Keep it up

[@stevenjelinek5716]

The amount of times in your videos I’ve heard you say “amazingly, the British didn’t communicate this to _____” is uncanny.

[@williaml.]

Amazing vid as always !

[@thewingedporpoise]

Commodore William Goodenough??? why hasn't a ship been named after him

[@ELCADAROSA]

What happened to the subs? It was established they weren’t in contact with the surface fleet, and therefore would not have received the “Retire” order, so ... 🤔

[@historigraph]

They'll have had certain times to stay on station until before returning to base

[@ELCADAROSA]

@@historigraph, thank you for the explanation.

[@Hollows1997]

A textbook definition of the phrase cake and arse party.

[@lonelychameleon3595]

Goodenough wasn’t a great commander, but he was good enough

[@wedgeantillies66]

Good job that jellico send the battle cruisers anyways and that the German admiral was just as incompetent to responding to the British attack as the execution of the initial British attack was. Or things might have turned out a lot worse for the royal navy than it actually did.

[@20mmGamer]

Kia ora. Ngā mihi, thanks for the video. One thing, I'm pretty sure one of the Battle Cruisers was HMS New Zealand, not the Australia. Cheers, Nick.

[@teuntjerk1008]

Collab with Mark felton?

[@skoniramont]

and Drachinifel and Operations Room

[@boireally8042]

Good vid I really like the world war 1 content

[@sode07]

Diffrent music POG

[@Marinealver]

Funny thing is I don't remember this in The Great War Series. I am going to have to look it up.

[@izab3ru]

We do a little miscommunication.

[@Korporaal1]

The title says 'When the British almost sank their own ships...' But apparently some light cruisers were chasing themselves! And didn't know it! Dashing initiative and flair the Royal Navy had; but command and control were sorely missing.

[@MatsLM]

I wasn’t expecting miscommunication from the British.

[@untruelie2640]

Come again, old chap?

[@MatsLM]

@@untruelie2640 I was expecting some communication but not that much with the British, since they’ve had 100 - 200 + years of Naval Dominance, it’s kind of embarrassing in a way.

[@untruelie2640]

@@MatsLM That was a joke. Miscommunication - "Come again" - Do you get it?

[@MatsLM]

@@untruelie2640 OOHHHH I get it

[@untruelie2640]

@@MatsLM "Sorry Humphrey, I can't hear your radio transmission over the sound of our magnificent navy ruling the seas."

[@Cloud7050]

8:13 I thought Keyes didn't know of the Battlecruisers up north either? How did he know to turn noth into their safe cover?

[@historigraph]

There were two battlecruiser who he did know would be there, but was unaware of the additional ships Beatty had brought

[@Cloud7050]

​@@historigraph Ah thanks, I see. I got the impression that he was still entirely unaware of the backup coming from the north, unlike the others who found out earlier.

[@Speedster___]

Would you consider doing more pacific USS IJN battles such as Samar etc and the Bismarck as I can’t find anything with your details. Half of them don’t even mention Suffolk and Norfolk. But Battle off Samar is my clear 1st choice

[@brianspendelow840]

The battlecruiser HMAS Australia was not present at this battle. You're thinking of her sister ship HMS New Zealand who definitely was.

[@historigraph]

Weird. It looks like you are right - not one but two of the sources I used appear to have written the wrong ship

[@NM-wd7kx]

@@historigraph is she an 'Australia class' ship perhaps?

[@Dave_Sisson]

I was wondering how HMAS Australia could be in the North Sea so quickly after its presence in its home country scared the German East Asia Squadron to try and get home via Cape Horn rather than the quicker route to the south west. Shortly after that they won the Battle of Coronel off the coast of Chile and then lost the Battle of the Falklands. So I suspect the battlecruiser at Heligoland might have been HMS New Zealand.

[@historigraph]

@@Dave_Sisson Yeah it emphatically was New Zealand. I've checked now and for some reason I have written Australia in my notes, and I can't work out why

[@rickkennett3192]

@@historigraph Australia ... New Zealand. Not to worry. All those colonials look alike.

[@Matakshaman]

Could you please cover the 1676 Battle of Öland? :D

[@chasemurraychristopherdola7108]

Can you do a video on the battle for Lake Tanganyika and what happened there was a British/Belgian navy force Composed of 3 steamers 4 armored boats 1 armed barge 1 whaler and 4 aircraft under Captain Geoffrey Spicer Simon defeated a superior German force composed of 2 steamers 1 ferry and 1 fort under the command of Gustav Zimmer and during this battle the triple entente lost 1 steamer sunk which would be refloated and assigned to the British navy and 1 armed boat damaged compared to the German losses of 12 killed 2 wounded 32 captured 1 steamer sunk 1 ferry scuttled and 1 steamer captured and it would later be assigned to the British flotilla but I am really interested in this battle because the exploits on lake Tanganyika caught the public imagination and were adapted into a book by English Novelist C. S. Forester and the book was called the African Queen which was published in 1935 but then in 1951 the book was adapted into a movie staring Katherine Hepburn and Humphrey Bogart and he won his only Oscar for this movie.

[@dad2827]

They are just testing their Friendly fire

[@coffeeandchill2788]

that mf really was named "good enough"

[@NeoZondix]

This is gonna be epic

[@erikjohansson4275]

I want more about the war against japan during ww2.

[@KiljiArslan]

Have you thought of creating a playlist for WW1?

[@ScreechingPossum]

All of these years, and the assumption shows from the History Channel had us believe was the Jutland was the *only* duel between the British and German fleets in the North Sea These videos are *MUCH* appreciated

[@grugbug4313]

Solid! Top KEK!

[@toplobster740]

The last time I was this early there was no British navy.

[@robbabcock_]

Great stuff!

[@ryanelliott71698]

7:20 lol

[@p.d8423]

Who walks through life with the name Goodenough. ?? Wow.

[@old_guard2431]

We have met the enemy and they are us.

[@thomasmarren2354]

I remember playing this battle in the WW1 video game Battlefield 1. So the Royal Navy didn't land Royal Marines on Heligoland Bight (the island part) itself?

[@Tom-2142]

Could have also been based off of the second battle, in 1917.

[@philipeanthonybattung3860]

Does anyone know what the music was in the beginning. I have been searching for it for a year.

[@OceanHedgehog]

British communication and intelligence during WWI was atrocious.

[@Marinealver]

I say chap, why are we not having Tea and Biscuits in Berlin by now? You need to whip up those lazy lads and get them moving. I got medals to give out, most of them to myself. 🐴🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁

[@Th0ughtf0rce]

Imagine if Jutland were a match in World of Warships. The chat would have been a glorious trainwreck.

[@riograndedosulball248]

@@Th0ughtf0rce "what do you mean the Germans turned around? They cannot possibly engage so fast..."

[@Th0ughtf0rce]

@@riograndedosulball248 SMS VON DER TANN =>/ HMS INDEFATIGABLE Hipper: rekt :) Beatty: f u SMS DERFFLINGER =>/ HMS QUEEN MARY Hipper: LOL. Nub Beatty: cheater Beatty: “Need backup!” Evan-Thomas: “Affirmative!” Jellicoe: “Affirmative!” Jellicoe: where? Beatty: “Need backup!” Jellicoe: where? Beatty: “Need backup!” Beatty: “Need backup!” Beatty: “Need backup!” Jellicoe: bruh… Evan-Thomas: how dafuq you got to this tier?!

[@s.31.l50]

Communication was indeed bad, but intelligence was frankly brilliant. Read up on room 40 🙂