WHEN THINGS GO WRONG! Making Scaffold Board Dining Table & Bench Seats

[@dannyradjkoemar580]

A tip, make allot of different scraps with different colors. Write on the back what you have applied, en done. after a while you can show this in the future to your customers. good luck. Danny from Holland

[@robgoodsight6216]

Exactly good advice...a couple of samples are worth 1000 words!!!

[@felixreali7101]

@@robgoodsight6216 yeah, that way you take away the arguments with customers

The final product is really solidly nice. You learned various lessons which usually isn't free. And you did create some handsome work

[@LeeLocke]

There's no substitute for experience. It's a world where mistakes are the only way to learn sometimes. Good on you for sharing this one with us.

[@bobbonham4823]

Great job. And getting a happy client too. Good postmortem analysis. Good luck with the shop setup. I'm looking forward to the next video.

[@damienmcardle5734]

This has to be the best most helpful video on KZbin. I've been looking to do my own project and as a novice I wanted to know things like the type of sandpaper, varnish and how to join the boards. I am so glad I found this video.

[@jakecarter2414]

The make what's called a pre-stain conditioner and it works very well to get rid of the blotchy spots in pine lumber, it's made by minwax. Thanks for sharing your wins and fails. Keep up the good work!

[@MoranGuyVideos]

Love your true and honest videos! Hope you will enjoy your new shop and share more projects with us

[@ianvicedomini2648]

I think the dining set turned out really nice in the end Keith but as the saying goes, you can’t please everyone mate. Great video mate 👍🏼👍🏼

[@pmck7559]

The finish you created with the dark oak and French polish shellac was fantastic! Keep that one in the memory bank for future.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Yeah I’m still discovering the magic of shellac, it is awesome 👍

[@peterpanassow7814]

The color the client is exactly what u had for him in the beginning! He's a dope.

[@Cradley684]

You did a good job Keith, no pleasing some people, rather you than me Mate, have a nice day you deserve it after that lot !!!!

[@davep5829]

Very good to see your honesty about the challenges you faced, and they were happy with the end result. I do think the lessons you've learned will be valuable though. Nailing down the specification at the beginning is absolutely key - you may also then want to make it clear in your terms that any variation from that specification will add additional cost at £x per hour. Not only does that protect you, it focusses the clients attention on how important the decisions they are making are.

[@justintaylor5045]

Brilliant info. Im making mine tomorrow and glad ive seen your video. Lol. Im building the legs too. 🤣 .thanks again. ⚒⚒

[@BSMikkel]

As someone's already mentioned the Terms & Conditions part is a good place to start. I've only recently taken a couple of wood working comissions and I have already gotten to the point that you describe where things just needs to be finished. I also ran a small 3D business for 10+ years and that's where I learned to be very specific in my offers. This I will need to learn to implement (better) in my to-be wood working business :)

[@jeremyhardacre7539]

Great to watch a video that shows that not everything goes to plan and how you overcame the issues. One very big problem you introduced right at the end was the use of spray furniture polish. Spray polish is very nasty stuff full of silicon that will result in problems when the table is used such as rings when hot/cold cups are placed on the surface, difficulty in cleaning with mid soap solutions and god forbid you used it on the bench seats as it will transfer to clothes.

[@TheWardagh]

Beautiful work and exceptional patience. Well done 👍🏼

[@jeffroberts760]

One of my favorites of your videos. That is a lovely table, I will be showing it to my wife, as I will be making our next dining table. Sorry to hear you took a loss on it! I think that stinks that your customer wouldn’t agree to at least meet you halfway on the extra cost.

[@MrZimmaframe]

1. Always take 50% of the agreed cost 2. Always send the client samples of their "chosen" colour of wood finish to them before a big job (then if they change their mind at that point you discuss an increase in cost, or if they don't want to it gives you the option to walk. Projects like these are the best sort because a lot of the time it gives you a good life lesson and hopefully saves a repeat situation.

[@negotiableaffections]

You stuck it out and came through it well. And [finally] a happy customer too. My guys and I had a bad experience, due to a less than hard edged brief [incl. black lettering on a black background] - yeah! We know! Still they went away happy and I got them to pay for the extra paint. A big "PHEW!" put it behind us and off down the pub. It costs, it stings but you came through with flying colours, proud of you, Keith.

[@negotiableaffections]

p.s. And in every finish it was still a great table!

[@JackCliffordWilliams]

Massive kudos for being so open about the challenges of this job. 👍

[@davidprentice4805]

Great video, it's refreshingly honest. I laughed out loud when you said you didn't want to sand anything ever again! Keep posting, I'm always learning something from your projects, many thanks.

[@kathrinekerns8398]

Glad you was able to persevere to completion. Some lessons take patience. Always enjoy watching your projects.

[@toucanproductions2935]

Great video, I appreciate that you covered dealing with a stressful situation. Also the animation at the beginning on how to flatten the cupped boards was on point.

[@Noidentityism]

An excellent project and so sorry with the enormous difficulties that you had, mainly with a demanding customer. My scaffold benches from a builder on ebay just arrived. I was disappointed with all the splinters but having seen your video, I am aware of the amount of work something like this takes so I will just be appreciative and not complain!

[@kscheuerman5378]

The most valuable lessons always come to us the hard way. The truth is you learned so much from these not so good experiences!! The right and moral thing would be just as you did everything, the customer is not responsible for any extras you had to purchase. Also, as you said you learned how important it is to work out things with a client more in advance. Yes, it was stressful for you, but not a failure. You learned so much & you will never have to earn this knowledge the hard way ever again. You did a good thing by passing on your experiences her as well. Great table, great work, thanks for sharing everything! Take care.

[@davidm3225]

"A satisfied customer. We should have him stuffed." - Basil Fawlty

[@scott21171]

Customers can be strange beasts....I swear some just change their minds because they can,others seem to think that you are a mind reader!....Having two difficult commissions so close together can be a bit disheartening,but as you said,it's a learning experience.. I'll bet you won't be caught out like this again!.. Really looking forward to seeing the new workshop come together mate.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Cheers Scott! To be fair his original reference picture was what he had in mind, but the colour of those boards wasn’t really achievable with the wood I had especially because I needed to plane so much off them to get them flat. Certainly was disheartening though doing those two commissions next to each other - good job I won’t have another one in a while 👍

[@alanbritton9896]

It is good to see someone be honest, I make these tables and have gone through similar difficulties but everyone makes it look easy because they are not honest, that you

[@keithconway4567]

These soul crushing experiences are hard to recover from.. they always make me want to do projects on Speculation and then find a customer that likes it and hands over the cash.. I know that is ideal and not always in the cards. You do however get an A for perseverance and having it come out really well.

[@ConiferProject]

Thanks for your honesty, pretty important to get insides and learn something 👍 thanks for sharing

[@michaelevans1658]

Your always get jobs like that ,little tip Keith do a worksheet stating the brief the customer wants including colour get them to read it and sign it along with the overall cost . Jacobean dark oak dye is a nice dark colour ,fitted all new skirtings at home in this colour looks great ,and a bonus unlike white does not look dirty after a couple of years. As regards your huge workshop {not jealous } much . Have you thought about office partitioning the metal stuff ?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I hadn’t thought of that - may be worth looking in to - thanks

[@anirishwoodworkersdiary2137]

Hi Keith I enjoyed your video it was a good and honest video of your work cheers lad

[@MsRmaclaren]

Good job! Thanks for being honest and letting us know. I have done the same thing when I had a commission for a RV replacement table. I had to suck it up and move on. Thumbs up.

[@bougie86]

I don't like to stain timber for customer because it's very personal perspective. I usually stain 3-5 different samples using the same off cut of the workpiece and request meet up with my customer for an agreement. Just for me I think it's worth the extra charge on these sample work and eliminate the stressful part later. Color correction over photo is the worst since it's too vary. I've been on your situation before. Btw, thank you very much for sharing this video and experience. Love your channel. From Australia

[@markgoode4109]

The table looks great. A trying situation with your client, but you got it sorted in the end; time to move on now. Good luck in the new shop. Best wishes.

[@MissLady-pq4hc]

Beautiful table + seats👍🏼👍🏼🙂

[@Landruman2002]

Quite a challenging project to work through, during an already stressful moving time. Difficult, but you made it through to the other side and are better for it. Thanks for sharing your struggle.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thank you!

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Glad it is over! 😀

[@HeikeWoolard]

Sometimes you have to make mistakes to learn from them. Thank you for sharing this though, so we can all learn from it. I am glad that you have moved and now have a nice spacious workshop.

[@NomadMakes]

Ah well. It is all a learning process. Great vid as always though. Nice to see you breaking out that track saw, by the way. And, as always; looking forward to the next one.

[@mb2776]

Happy Client is the best advertisment!

[@zulfiqarali7656]

Thanks for your advice. Learnt a lot

[@PieterF]

Good work, Keith. I think it looks great.

[@johnfithian-franks8276]

It just goes to show how you have to get the details sorted before you even start a job. I am proud that you did not lose your temper (I know I would mid-way through) and the customer would never have seen the end product.

[@joelegrand5903]

Lot of good points, thanks for telling all. Great video!

[@hansdegroot8549]

Very good and honest video. Thanks for sharing. You've learnt a lot of it and so did we. They problem with commissions is that the customer is always right. Even when he isn't. Good luck with organizing your new shop and I'm looking forward to see videos on that.

[@ΚΑΤΕΡΙΝΑΠΙΤΣΙΟΥ]

If we didnt make mistakes we would be gods of perfection (which unfortunatelly is this is not the case in the lives of people) and yes sometimes there will be less profit or no profit and problems But eventually you made your client happy , it means that your mission accomplished !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great dining table and seat of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello there. pier board dining table and armchairs was great. Sometimes something can go wrong. we correct them. Thank you for sharing. nice work..

[@caesarpota8818]

Respect for the tips 👊🏾

[@leedobson30]

Very honest and informative - oddly encouraging. Thnx

[@303dg]

Great job! Really like the way how you shown all mistakes and problems you had and how you solve them. I'm looking for some ideas how to make a office desk for my customer and I love your project. the only thing is I have no idea how to charge for that kind of projects.

[@anzorsworkshop3941]

You did everything good. Final product also looks amazing. Good job! ^_^

[@rhysevans7903]

I bet it was smooth tho!!! Nice job 👍👍

[@theweepinghunter]

fab vid and nice to see the prob you had Thank you

[@adammono1839]

Chin up Keith. Looking forward to the future projects on the horizon. You can take solace in the positive commissions you've had like the barber's!

[@AMG63]

Everytime you said "had to sand it again" I could feel the pain haha .. anyways it's done and finished now so we are all excited for the new workshop of yours 😄👍

[@chrisharrison6532]

Well Keith another good character builder on your part you went overboard on every aspect to please a customer who wanted to get his way at any cost, a fair man would have compromised and at least met some of the extra costs involved he surely knows labour and materials aren't free on trial and I think from the outset any extra cost and changes to the job caused by the customer in future should be highlighted at the beginning or it will be you ending up in the soft and smelly and most important nobody else cares. Just another brick in your wall well done mate life's a tough learning curve.

[@peterellis5765]

I fully understand your frustration and stress.

[@pmacedo6778]

Great work! Thxs for the finishing tips! Cheers 🍻

[@andrewroberts6158]

very honest, it happens to the best of us.

[@Craftsman1984]

I learned that lesson now, thanks =)

[@IEnjoyCreatingVideos]

Nice work Keith! Thank you for sharing the video.👍👌😎JP

[@stunningmisadventures]

This is awesome!! I want one!! 😍😍 It’s unfortunate that it didn’t turn out the way you wanted.

[@STICKYHOUSE]

Brilliant!!! cant wait to see your new workshop when its all finished (",)

[@GosforthHandyman]

Aww man I feel your pain! These sort of projects can be an absolute nightmare. Looked fantastic though! 👍👌

[@mike130557]

It’s a bitter pill to swallow, when you make a loss on a commission, but at least you have gained some valuable knowledge regarding the application and mixing of different finishes, coupled with the painful experience of trying to please a ‘difficult’ client. It reminds me of an old comedy character created by Viv Stanshall (sadly no longer with us), Sir Henry Rawlinson, who said “I don’t know what I want, but I want it NOW”.

[@davedale3305]

hi great vid and advice ,i'm making 4 tables the same way ,to go in a pub ,some one also advised me to also split the planks making four into 8,but watching ur vid i won't be doing that.

[@mikedeman5351]

Keith, I really admire your honesty about the difficulties and problems you have encountered with this project. Maybe you need to write something in to your 'terms and conditions' to cover client-inspired extra work . . . .One thing, on finishes I like the Chestnut range of products (chestnutproducts.co.uk) and they have a newsletter put out by their finishes expert Terry Smart which I have found to be very useful.Keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing what you do with the new workshop. Slightly envious but in a good way :)

[@stephenmcphillips6118]

You'll learn a lot from this one mate

[@polifem4831]

Amazing video. Ive been there a couple of times and its really depressing and stressfull. Nice to see you Got through it wholeskinned.

[@normanboyes4983]

Nice job and well done for posting what went ‘wrong’. As to making a loss on the job - that’s the price or cost for the experience gained and as long as it informs how you tackle future commissions and particularly extracting customer specifications it is ‘money well spent’.😀👍

[@azza1793]

Shellac is a sealer (knot sealer etc) so it will not allow any other coatings/finishes to penetrate

[@RagnBoneBrown]

It was a shellac sanding sealer which is recommended for preventing blotchiness in soft woods

[@KingAndaval]

Thank you for this video. I am about to try the same for my wife’s Christmas present and I’ll update you with the result :-) New to joining, but hoping to be a bit of a hobbyist. I have 6 planks all in fairly decent condition :)

[@raysmith1992]

Hi a frustrating project for you, I had a similar project where the colour of the finish was important, I use OSMO and their finishes come in a range of colours and finish from Matt, Satin etc and they also do samples and they are a joy to work with as they are a wax and oil finish. I always give a final beeswax finish with 0000 grade wire wool and then buff with a duster. Thanks for the video love the table legs, at least in your new workshop it's big enough to plane the planks.

[@tonyalways7174]

I know exactly where you’re coming from on this. I made a garden dining table for a guy. He was very happy and asked for a matching coffee table. So far so good. I did them on the cheap because he was an acquaintance then he asked if I’d do one for someone he knew at the same price. I had the materials already so said OK. Word spread. After having made another 4 tables for different folk I was sorely tempted to set fire to my worship and give up the ghost because I’d made myself into production line worker and hated every minute by the end of it. Never again. Slowly I regained some enthusiasm but it took a while and lesson learned....

[@davidmurray1928]

Best off cutting your losses as you you did and get past it. I do quite a lot of staining Scandinavian Red Pine and I use Meths Based stain from Morrells. it soaks in evenly and dries quickly. can be waxed, lacquered etc afterwards. Hope that helps. Regards from Ireland. Dave.

[@vinnyreid5442]

Great job Keith thanks for the insights. It looks awesome even though it didn't work out money wise. Hope the new shop is going well.

[@teresaparker3559]

Hard learned lesson. Turned out amazing tho. Love the videos. Teresa from Indiana

[@tjacksonwoodworker3726]

Been there; done rhat.. Turned out very nice..

[@tekviper9]

Had a similar problem with a client. Thank you for sharing.

[@foxglovemead]

It went really wrong but nothing wrong with that when you're watching and learning, so, QED - a fantastic result! There was lots about the project that did go well e.g. the legs, mounting them and jointing the boards and even the finish that flaked off - would have been worse if the client had seen it - but they didn't! Clients that don't know what they want are always going to be your problem if you are to avoid overruns. Like choosing a carpet (over a wood floor) - would you try one out e.g. your whole sitting room (or house) and then ask for feedback, only to replace it with the next, and the next etc. at great expense? Wood finish samples e.g. like carpet samples, built up (honed) over several job proposals would be the way to go. Even a range of samples e.g. to quote £600, £625 or £650 to "leverage" (ratchet up) to a final price... So again, a fantastic result when learning - thanks.

[@thewoodworker1703]

Been there and i can expect to be there again ! 1 out of 5 commissions can be just like that for me. Although this new fad that is rustic/reclaimed is mostly my business on and offline. From the initial pic the customer sent you my ears pricked up , i was interested to see how you handled the finish as i had the same problem at the beginning of this craze, and i have got it down to a fine art (to a degree). Hearing of your problem didn't surprise me , working on scaffold boards (with them being mostly pine) they can be soft and a concern for durability when it comes to finish, especially when it will be used as a kitchen table or the like. Danish oil Jacobean dark oak is your friend for a few reasons , the finish is what most clients want when they see the rustic pinterest type pics of rustic kitchen tables, coffee tables and shelving with metal work etc Anyway back to the jacobean , i wouldn't worry about the blotches as most of the clients want that imperfection look, when applying the first coat this drys to a light finish and the more you apply the darker it gets. So what i do is apply the first coat , send a pic to the client and apply as needed (how dark i need to go) if you over stain then sanding lightly brings it back a shade which works a treat. I have worked with many stains and as i have stated the danish oil dark oak seems to be the colour that most are looking for , its all down to how dark or light they want it. Get your self 5 lengths of scrap pine and go from one coat and work your way up to say 5 coats and you have a ready made pallet of finishes that the customer can choose from before committing. It works a treat on my part and i have yet to have to sand right back due to the stain being totally off. There is a lot of work out there for the rustic reclaimed look , i wouldn't write if off totally if i was you. Ohh i almost forgot , the durable finish , i use danish oil clear finish and add multiple coats (sanding in-between) which gives it real nice durable finish with little chance on leaving marks unless its really bashed about. I also have been testing a yacht varnish which at the minute is coming out very very well as it sets real hard and gives the look that you have really worked on the finish and dare i say looks like you have applied an epoxy resin ! Anyways sorry to ramble but i have felt your pain, and as i make a good solid living from making what you have just made i thought id share. Your finished table and benches looked great by the way !

[@adammono1839]

I was thinking the same with a set of samples. You could even make a small finish sample you could post to the client!

[@thewoodworker1703]

Adam Monaghan thats it 👍🏻

[@dazlarg]

Hi which yacht varnish do you use?

[@thewoodworker1703]

@@dazlarg since writing this post I wouldn’t go back to yacht varnish , I would recommend ronseal’s diamond hard polyurethane clear coat , far superior to yacht varnish !

[@dazlarg]

@@thewoodworker1703 nice one thanks buddy 👍🏻

[@Karlb7426]

Looks great, brilliant video. I have made a table top very similar, not as good but I am a novice. I also have bought these legs which arrived today. I am concerned about the table swaying and also the bench. Can you give me some advice on how I can help prevent this please? I am worried that if I just screw the boxed legs in they won’t hold and the bench doesn’t have any central support either. Thanks

[@toastersock]

What I took from your experience a) have confidence in your wood work skills you will win out in the end b) understanding what the customer wants is not always easy for them to explain, especially with finishes. Maybe experiment with some finishes on a length of board you will be using first, keeping careful note of what you used, then let customer choose from what you have available before you even start. c) a job is a job, the customer assumes you know how long it will take being a pro, and your quote accounts for that, mistakes included! Interesting video thank you.

[@TNgrandee3]

Nevertheless, it is a beautiful table. Hope you are enjoying your new home and shop.

[@David-xu3yk]

Well the end result was worth it in the end!!! You were in a difficult situation... I dont know what I'd have done (apart from loose the will to live haha)

[@MrBez007]

great patience Keith. Its a cliché but you really do learn from your mistakes. If you have never made any mistakes you probably have very little knowledge !

[@Jamtastical]

Thanks for this. I also make this kind of decor/furniture and today I had a bad day for similar reasons. I also just want to make things that I want rather than a commission. I’m in exactly the same boat and I often feel like it’s not worth the hassle and wonder if this is the way forward for me. Your vid helped me feel a little better knowing it’s not just me if you know what mean haha. But genuinely thanks. Also, warped wood... pain in the a#*e. (Subscribed)

[@LonghornWorkshop]

Someone may have said this already but try a wood conditioner prior to staining. That was tough mate, I feel for you. But you are right sometimes it's best to just get it done and move on.

[@mandyleeson1]

Maybe a selection of sample finishes could be shown to the client next time and once chosen, there's no going back...? Good luck with the new shop.

[@robjwebb]

Pot noodle pot. You never let me down ❤

[@helenlynne172]

Can you advise a supplier for your "small carbide scraper" as seen in a previous video? It looks like a great tool to have on hand!

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Check the “my tools” link in the description box

[@peterpoertner7042]

And in the end, send the bill for the extra finishes to the client. Yes, you quoted two days of work, but with the understanding that when you complete it the first time, the job is done. Just because the client doesn't like the finish doesn't mean you have to eat the cost, that's called a 'change order' and becomes the clients responsibility to pay for it. Certainly lesson learned here is to be absolutely clear with any client on expectations,. But also let the client know that if they are unhappy with the finished product, you will do your best to make it right if it is your error at your cost. But they get to pay extra if they 'just don't like the way it looks' and you did it to their specs. Great job as usual, love your 'work arounds' with limited space, all of the finishes you did where wonderful, and the client was lucky to have found such an understanding person such as yourself! Looking forward to watching the new chapter in your life in your new shop! Hope all is well with you and yours!

[@HaysieBoy]

0:13 clients request pic looks like rustic oak. 8:05 finished project looks more like mahogany 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@cobberpete1]

Your right Keith, It should have been a simple job. Having experienced the blotchy stain, I too would have thought the shellac would have worked and was nodding.. 'That makes sense' while watching. I too have a regular client from hell.. I want a thingamagig about such n such size with a pretty pastel finish. Vague does not describe the dimensions, colour etc. So when it's built, it is nothing like the aforementioned design concept.... You guessed it, the Wife. LOL. I would not be without her :)

[@kevinmurrell9779]

Well done for pushing on through with this. Customers eh?

[@MrF3ED]

Done the right thing even know your out of pocket the work will stand the test of time.

[@Bardy20101]

hi there, i am sorry that you had a hard time with your client. some people can be so fussy and as you say it takes all the fun out of the experience. but dont let it get to you, if you put a higher quote in for the job that then allows for any unforseen issues and if the job goes well then that extra can go towards any job that goes awry in the future. i look forward to your moving house and setting up your new workshop and wish you all the best. tony.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thank you, yeah it’s that challenge of trying to be competitive but also trying to earn some money... live and learn 👍

[@Hand-i-Craft]

Great finish Keith and sorry to hear about the client ‘disagreement’. Strange thing I find is they are so particular about how it should look, but aren’t bothered to see the finished product in person? If they want something specific, it should be made absolutely crystal clear at the start, otherwise it should be down to your interpretation of their brief, and money on top if their vague vision has not been interpreted correctly

[@hasanabdullah141]

Hi there, great video, a lot of useful tips. Im hoping to make a custom fit scaffold desk with a second layer underneath as a shelf. Its to fit an awkward off square corner of the room. I was wondering what wood glue would you recommend? Thanks

[@chrism2966]

A good education is not cheap ! You have a very constructive and positive attitude, so any cash loss on such a job is a good investment for future custom jobs. Always good to get as important things agreed in advance though. I have made bigger losses and bigger cock-ups so it forces you to learn ! Good luck.

[@davidallison2559]

Hi, thank you for the informative video. As a novice, can I ask whether I should make slot holes and use washers in the battens under the table top? I'm using scaffold pipes for legs so will be using wooden battens. Also, how come your scaffold boards don't appear to have any cracks!? I can't seem to stop mine from cracking, even with kiln dried boards! Thank you again