When to use which Pantograph?

[@steelbridgemodels]

As I didn't make it clear in the video, I'm mainly describing the situation in Germany. And while many countries are handling pantographs in a very similar way, this does certainly not apply to all. If you want to know more about different practices in different countries, I'd recommend going through the comments, as a good number of you took the time to write about these different practices. Thank you for that!

[@namenamename390]

This is a rare case of a new video that answers a question I had actually asked myself. I knew that modern multi system locomotives need different pantographs for running in different countries with different electrification standards, but I just didn't know why locomotives bound to a single country would have two identical pantographs. So thank you!

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

Actually for the first thing that is not always the Case, if you look at the Northeast Corridor in the United States which uses both 25 Hertz and 60 Hertz power at different Voltages locomotives and Multiple Units with Single Pantographs such as the ALP-45DP are used across the Power Change such as between Boston and New York and from the Lackawanna Suburban Lines into Penn Station

[@namenamename390]

@@IndustrialParrot2816 Interesting, good to know. The opposite exists as well, Germany and Switzerland have the same voltage and frequency, but you need different pantographs anyways because the swiss standard is narrower than the german one.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@@namenamename390 . . . Which explains why the Northeast Corridor locomotives can get away with 1 pantograph for both electrification types, since the loading gauge is the same and the voltage isn't so different as to require different pantographs. (Nevertheless, some locomotives have had dual pantographs, presumably for better availability, although in the case of the ALP-45DP, if the pantograph fails, you can just fire up the diesel engine to finish your journey and then make it back to the shop.)

[@michalg777]

On DC systems, where operating currents are higher, the drivers are usually required to raise the sencond pantograph on a locomotive at low speed while performing heavy start, or at standstill if HEP of passenger coaches is on, to avoid over-heating of contact wire. Present TSI even requires that the software of a vehicle will raise second pantograph automatically, when the vehicle is trying to draw a current over 200 A per pantograph at standstill.

[@ADDIVARTH123]

Siema, Polak!!!

[@thomasnovacek4686]

@@ADDIVARTH123 Why poles? This happens practically everywhere where there are 1500V or 3000V direct current overhead lines, i.e. France, the Benelux countries, Italy, -Croatia- Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc.! But even with alternating current overhead lines there are regulations as to when a train driver has to lower pantographs when the train is at a standstill, for example: when the train is at a standstill at the feeder area district boundaries or when driving with more than one locomotive, at the separation points, as here too correspondingly high currents can damage the overhead lines and pantographs!

[@ADDIVARTH123]

@@thomasnovacek4686 bo trafiłem na Polaków...

[@CentralJerseyRailfan]

@@thomasnovacek4686all Croatian railways are now 25kV AC

[@thomasnovacek4686]

@@CentralJerseyRailfan Oh, I saw it. I actually wanted to write Slovenia. I don't know how I made that mistake, thanks for pointing it out...

[@jonistan9268]

The double decker long distance Twindexx trains of Switzerland have a pantograph at either end and also follow these rules. The recently retired rail cars (Triebwagen, idk) that ran on the line from Grütschalp to Mürren have two pantographs. However, only one of them can be used to draw power. The other one isn't connected to the electrical system and was only used to scratch ice off the overhead wires.

[@railwayjade]

The correct answer is that it depends on the railway and country. 🙂 In South Africa, where we can have up to 5 locomotives, they state that the same pantograph on each loco must be raised to maintain equal tension in the contact wire between each panto - Yes, there are exceptions where it's not always possible for whatever reasons because life happens. EDIT: There is also the load that is being pulled like passenger or tankers, normally they will use the forward panto. Great video and EXCELLENT modelling!

[@treinenliefde]

Nice video! If I may add some fun additions not from Germany. At 3:47, a lot of Dutch locomotives also raise two pantographs, but only at standstill. Due to the low 1500 volt DC system, overhead wires can heat up too much when a locomotive that draws a lot of current is standing still. To prevent the heating of a single point, a lot of Dutch locomotives raise their second pantograph when at a station. Around 4:25. This had also been a big issue for SNCF when developing the TGV. The high speeds made the vibrations much worse, making the use of two pantographs (one on each power var) impractical. Nowadays having multiple pantographs at high speed isn't an issue due to improvements in their design, but before the vibrations were a concern for TGV trains running on the high speed line. Because of this, TGV's actually pick up power from only the rear pantograph, with high voltage cables between the carriages delivering power to the other power car (usually the front one has the pantograph down). Although other high speed trains such as the ICE do use multiple pantographs together, even the latest TGV's still only have the rear one raised in normal operation.

[@steelbridgemodels]

Very welcome additions, that show how complex this seemingly simple topic really is! Thank you!

[@dwegmull]

In parts of France that use 1500 V DC, locmotives also use both pantograph when stopped and when starting, to minimize the current at each contact point. I wonder if the same applies in Italy where 3000 V is used...

[@thomasgabler3476]

@@dwegmull Not in Italy, but in Poland they sometimes do.

[@beeble2003]

"overhead wires can heat up too much when a locomotive that draws a lot of current is standing still" When it's standing still, a locomotive isn't drawing much current at all. The issues is when the locomotive accelerates away from the station, which is when the maximum current draw happens.

[@superj8502]

​@@dwegmull yes, i've seen it done in Italy, but not always, so i don't know if there's a rule about that.

[@laju]

In Finland, while the basic arrangement is the normal "far apart" with double locomotives in front, slow freight uses rear pantograph on both locomotives. The reason is that the locomotives for slow freight are often paired up for longer times, switched between trains as pairs. Using the pantograph the most far apart, those would wear out faster than the "inner" ones. To balance out the wear, you use the rear ones on both locomotives.

[@DrSporea]

I went to the Munich Transport Museum at the weekend and a poster had the engines in the previous videos. Excellent work, keep it up please.

[@turnerdeedo4633]

I certainly did find this video informative! I've always wondered why locomotive pantographs are handled the way they are, but now I understand. Excellent video, thank you for making it!

[@eltfell]

Additional remarks on single headers: 1. When the front pantograph gets torn off, it may not only demage the back pantograph, but also the installations on the roof and dangerous or expensive fright. 2. Another case of raising the front pantograph is the first car being a cab car. In the cab can more likely be persons. In case of the pantograph being torn off, there is a higher risk of injury. 3. Rising the back pantograph looks cool.

[@homesweetgoto10]

Another excellent video! I find myself constantly looking forward to these. I would love a video in the future on how coupling works in Germany.

[@steelbridgemodels]

Thank you, and thanks for your suggestion!

[@yanhanksfzi]

I don't know about English,but in German only the diamond shaped ones are called pantographs, since they look like an actual pantograph. A sketching tool that scales movement of one pencil down to a smaller movement of another pencil. If you also want to address the "half pantographs", they are called Bügel or simply Stromabnehmer.

[@MartinVladov]

Nice bro nice love seeing content from you

[@Michaelgoestofrance]

Excellent, as always! One thing that seems to happen in France is that under the DC wires, both pantographs are raised when moving off, then the front one is lowered once the initial momentum has been achieved. I guess that must have something to do with drawing additional current being needed (or something like that!). I don't know if this is a blanket rule but it does seem to happen at times. One thing I don't understand is when a dual voltage - AC/DC - has both pantographs raised when starting out under DC. Not at all sure how the AC pantograph is used for collecting DC power... Fantastic models, too!

[@XX-nf6vb]

The AC and DC pantograph are connected together so that you can so that you can draw DC current through the AC pantograph and the other way round.

[@jeroen2535]

Both DC pantographs raised when start moving is recommended otherwise one pantograph is drawing too much current to one point and the cable/pantograph will melt.

[@StrassenbahnBen]

Nice! :) Deine Modelle sind beeindruckend! Und beim Fachwissen sind Dinge bei, die ich noch nicht wusste. :)

[@kevinl3455]

Well explained, and comprehensive video! Finally I have no more questions about pantograph use after this, thank you for posting

[@jangelbrich7056]

Another nice detail that You cannot ask ordinary people about, they would not even notice ... and those who do notice know nobody to ask. Good video!

[@thomasnovacek4686]

The pantograph topic that you are presenting here only shows pantographs from alternating current collectors. With direct current at 1500V or 3000V, as used in France, the Netherlands or Italy, the topic is completely different, since very high voltages are transmitted, especially when starting up. here a second pantograph is very often raised, or in the case of multi-system locomotives that use up to 4 power systems (1500V and 3000V direct current and 15kV 16.7hz and 25kV 50hz alternating current), the direct current collectors have up to 4 contact plates, as these would otherwise melt due to the transmitted current when starting up. This is why direct current overhead lines also have 2 contact wires so that the transmission strength is divided between several points. Italy even requires contact oil to be sprayed onto the pantograph using nozzles in the contact plate... At the end you explain the different pantographs on a 4-system locomotive, but you overlook the fact that the contact strips have different lengths. For this reason alone, no Austrian or German locomotive can drive in Switzerland, even though the 3 countries have the same power system, because the contact strips in Germany and Austria are 1950mm wide. in Switzerland they are only 950mm wide due to the different clearance profile. Other countries have different widths, and the EU standard stipulates that all routes will be electrified with 25kV/50hz in the future and that the zig-zag tensioning is designed for a contact strip width of 1600mm. Italy is converting many routes to this standard, Croatia is the only country that already fully complies with this standard, while other countries are still waiting. If EU funding is required for a construction project, then the overhead line must comply with this standard, which is why the Fehrmannbelt Tunnel is also getting an EU overhead line in Germany, but since it was decided before this standard, an Austrian 15kV/16.7hz overhead line will hang in the Brenner Base Tunnel up to the Italian tunnel portal, and from there the EU overhead line will be used... So you can't drive with the same pantographs everywhere, and each pantograph in 4-system locomotives is for a different country standard and therefore cannot be used outside of these...

[@stefan_brix]

Very good explanation, but the first "voltages" should be "currents". And the conversion of systems is only done, when you change from DC to AC, so Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Norge and Sweden will stay at 15 kV, 16,7 Hz for quite a long time.

[@MHG1023]

... but you are wrong in one regard: there are German and Austrian locomotives that can - and actually do - drive in and through Switzerland. These do have an additional shortened pantograph fitting the Swiss requirements. Same goes for Swiss and Italian (!) locomotives operated by various cargo operators running into Germany/Austria as they do have the required panthographs. There are even Italian EMU´s running the Euro City passenger services between Frankfurt (Germany) and Milan (Italy) which requires them to be equipped for German/Swiss/Italian catenary and AC/DC Voltage systems (15kV AC in Germany/Switzerland) and 3kV DC in Italy and also the different pantograph sizes ...

[@thomasnovacek4686]

@ I think you have misunderstood a few things here. Of course there are vehicles that can cross the border into the neighboring country without any problems, and multi-system locomotives that can use up to 4 power systems (1500 and 3000V direct current and 15kV/16.7hz and 25kV/50hz alternating current) are now standard. These also have the additional approvals for the other countries in which they operate. Similar multi-system solutions are also available for Emus. But: outside of the border stations with Austria, have you ever seen an ÖBB 1144 or 1016 in Switzerland? Or the DB 101? Conversely, an SBB Re 460 in Germany or Austria? No, right? And even from the series that can travel from these countries to Switzerland, e.g.: ÖBB 1116, not all locomotives are allowed into Switzerland, only those that have been equipped and approved for it. The same applies to the 4 system locomotives. Although the Siemens ES64 U4 (e.g. ÖBB 1216) can also run at 1500V DC, it will never run at this contact wire voltage because it has no approval in those countries where such a contact wire voltage exists and will not be granted approval in the future.

[@thomasnovacek4686]

@ Unfortunately, I have to admit that my written English is a bit rusty, so I use Google Translate. But as far as the system changes are concerned: they are not only necessary because of the overhead lines and the power systems, but also because of the different train protection systems. Not even in Germany and Austria is everything the same, and so there is a system change at every border for vehicles that continue on to the respective neighboring country. So also between Germany and Austria... In addition, a system change on the existing routes is currently not planned anywhere except in Croatia, which has already completely changed over, and Italy, as far as I know, because that means that major changes have to be made here. For example: a 25kV overhead line must hang at least 0.5m higher than one for 15kV. This is a protective regulation.... It is not cost-effective to just change over like that...

[@obelic71]

Their are also some differences in use of pantographs on DC and AC systems. The DC 1.5 and 3.0 KV systems can only have 2 locomotives max in front of a train because of the amps drop when current is pulled out of the overhead wire. Also the distance between trains on the line has to be increased to compensate the amps drop in the section. Thats why you saw often 3-4 diesel engines pulling a heavy freight train under DC wires from the port of Rotterdam into Germany. There was also the normaly rarely used in railway operations in Europe mixed traction (electric and diesel locomotives) used in heavier freighttrains. When the heavy freight 25KV AC railwayline from Rotterdam to Germany came into service those heavy freighttrains could often be pulled with 1 modern electric locomotive. Both pantographs up on a DC line is only used to preheat a passenger train before service at slow speeds when overheadlines are iced up and when the locomotve is used for frequent shunting passenger trains ( platform - yard / yard - platform) at a major final destination station. Also DC systems have "lighter" passengertrain railwaystock to AC systems so less power is needed so trains can run closer to each other in normal service on a line. An example is the SGM sprinter emu trains build by Talbot Aachen for the National Dutch railways

[@00Zy99]

What do you mean by DC systems having "lighter" passenger trains? This does explain why Paris went with 1.5 KV DC for its new Express Metro system, but could you please clarify how they are lighter? Are they drawing less current? Is this an inherent trait, or just a tendency in design? I am asking because I am thinking about Japan and its 1.5 KV DC system. While they do have relatively lightweight stock in general, there are some rather hefty trains (most notably sleeper services), both EMU and loco-hauled (though the latter are all but dead due to competition from night buses. Also, Japan did its own thing with pantographs: The VERY steep Usui Pass (6.67% grade!) required helpers/pushers going up, even with EMUs. Going down also used braking assistance. In both cases, a pair of EF63 locomotives (nicknamed "Sherpas") would be placed on the downhill end of the train. BOTH EF63s kept both of their pantographs raised at all times. This meant that they would also be running next to a conventional locomotive, with ITS pantograph up. All on 1.5 KV DC!! Sadly, they were retired in September 1997 when the Nagano Shinkansen opened and the remaining local traffic was not enough to keep the line open.

[@obelic71]

@@00Zy99 Due to the fact DC can't give so much power as an AC system, they started way earlier constructing more lightweight railwaystock. f.e. wellded instead of rivited carriages what did result in 10 metric ton weight reduction on each carriage. On one type of carriage (W stock) they went to far and they had a more unstable ride then other type's of carriages. DC systems were at first used early adopters due to the fact AC systems had serious difficulties to accelerate electric motors, thats why the German railways uses that strange 15KV 15-2/3 Hz system so the electric motors didn't burn out. The Italian railways had and even weirder AC system a multifase system with several overhead wires. Each powering a seperate wiring in the electro motors.

[@jordikuijt1004]

In France some locomotives used on snow clearing duty are fitted with a special pantograph (painted yellow) to clear icing form the catenary, currently fitted on some bi-voltage loco's of the BB22200 class, making them unable to run on 25kV lines. To my knowledge these pantographs are also fitted with different/reinforced carbon strips. As mentioned by others in France and other DC networks you will see them use 2 pantographs at startup and at standstill under 1500V, to prevent localised overheating of the wire. Few French locomotives (eg BB36000) can have a narrow 25kV panto and a wide 1500V panto. The 25kV being more narrow and for this reason is not allowed to be raised on 1500V lines where the Midi type catenary is used, because the Midi catenary has a bigger zigzag and the pantograph could end up next to the wire. On non Midi type 1500V catenary this narrow 25kV pantograph can be used without issues and will be used at standstill and start-up. Most bi-voltage French locomotive's (eg. class BB22200 and 26000) however are only equipped with a narrow 1500V and a narrow 25kV panto thus not allowed to go on lines with Midi catenary at all. For multi-system locomotive's often the wrong pantograph may be used with restriction in case the correct one fails so the locomotive can continue to a safe place. SNCF has some great video's about development of the pantograph for the TGV and the national railway museum in Mullhouse has a great exhibit piece of the TGV pantograph too, explaining the multitude of problems faced for power collection at high speeds.

[@Xantec]

DC powered locomotives, such as Japanese electric locomotives and the ones operated by NS in Holland, both pantographs are always used, even when double heading. Old woodhead route DC locomotives used both diamonds and were often double headed.

[@fbonnie6894]

The panto setup when in mu (multiple unit) service can be different in each country for example in germany they have the two last panto up (up,down-down,up) but in hungaty they have the last panto up (up,down-up,down) on each loco by the direction its going and in case if its going in tripple mu or more loco together then only the two end locos can have the panto up (up,down-down,down-down,down-etc-up,down)

[@Jytami]

Awesome video about great topic! I really like the slight German accent too, very authentic and original! Either way, you earned yourself a new sub, lookin forward to your next vid!

[@beeble2003]

Um. He has a German accent because he's German.

[@Jytami]

@beeble2003 🤓

[@pigeon_the_mighty]

​@@Jytami lmao you don't get to dish out the nerd emoji after calling someone else's real accent "authentic"

[@Jytami]

@@pigeon_the_mighty 🤓

[@Jytami]

I think there's a small misunderstanding here, I'm just complimenting a cool accent which just stood out lol. Ofc I know that he's German and yeah thats it. I'm just doing funny stuff with the 🤓

[@mountainmanpedro]

Very useful. Thank you.

[@Sacto1654]

What’s even more interesting is the number of active pantographs on a Shinkansen train. I know modern Shinkansen train sets only raise one pantograph for the whole train set even on a train with as many as 16 cars!

[@ZK5120A1]

The pantographs themselves are able to run in both ways. However, bow collectors are required to operate in only one direction, so they need to be reversed when trams change direction. For AC catenary systems, using multiple pantographs can cause problems when going through a neutral zone. For a single pantograph situation, I heard that the rear pantograph is preferred because carbon dust won't pollute the electrical equipments at the top of the locomotive. But for some EMUs, there are multiple power units, each isolated from each other, so one pantograph per each unit is allowed. But I heard that in some cases, even isolated pantographs can cause short circuit between phases, for example the 1st pantograph is shorting the neutral zone and the phase 1, and the 2nd pantograph is shorting the neutral zone and the phase 2, so phase 1&2 are shorted through pantograph1-neutral wire-pantograph2.

[@pupcalis6460]

A verry nieche Pantograph configuration are with the Jungfraubahnen in Bern, Switzerland. They have two small pantographs *side to side*, as they draw two phases of a 3-phase system from two overhead wires, giving the motors greater power and torque. Or the SZU (Uetlibergbahn) in Zorich, that has it's pantographs displaced to the side, as it used DC, while sharing some track with the SiTB (Sihltalbahn) that was directly connected to the SBB network that uses AC current. So instead oh needing to change electrification depending on what type of train was using the tracks, they just used double-electrification.

[@Brickticks]

Cool! Very cool! Now if I could just figure out which pantographs to raise on my Lego Horizon Express French TGV, which as two arm pantographs at the back of each engine. Come to think of it, the old Metroliner has single arm pantographs on both its lead locomotive and it’s rear cabbage car. Which one should I raise then? Like the Horizon Express, the Metroliner has dual contacts on each pantograph shoe. Rockatoa, a going to pace around my L-Gauge layout and ponder these things Brickticks out!

[@thomasgabler3476]

TGV power cars have two pantographs because they are multi-current. One for 25kV AC (the one nearer to the coupling, also used on the high speed lines) and one for 1.5kV DC (the one nearer to the cab)

[@steelbridgemodels]

Which new models and liveries could you spot in this video? There are a few!

[@mravecsk1]

They also use both pantographs when they start moving while pulling heavy cargo trains because of spreading high currents/amps...

[@Steven_Rowe]

A couple of anomalies here. In the UK on the form Woodhead route which closed in 1981 both diamond pantographs were raised, even when double heading 4 pantographs were used. The line was 1500DC so obviously this drew much more current thanx25 KV I also notice that in France on there large 1500DC network locos only use one pantograph but when braking to stop at a station both pans are raised. Once the train leaves the front pan is lowered after about 150 metres from the station.

[@alexhajnal107]

Some trainsets such as the TGV take this further by typically using only the a single pantograph on the rear locomotive of the consist [usually the trailing one]; power is then distributed to the traction motors on the lead locomotive (or throughout the train, when applicable). On the TGV the power cables can be clearly seen running along the centerline of the car roofs. [IIRC]

[@uncipaws7643]

Schönes modell der 184 (E410). Davon gab es zwar wenige loks, aber viele kleine bauartunterschiede und modifikationen über die jahre. Eine lok aus der zeit, als mehrsystem-elektrotechnik noch ein abenteuer war.

[@lukasilskens2051]

So much ne stuff to enjoy, and still Informativ as ever. Love it

[@muelleroliver4007]

As far as I know in Germany double headers of locomotives with only a single contaktpoint per pantograph, the leading locomotive raises only its first pantograph, the second one uses both pantographs, i.e. exactly the other way round

[@filanfyretracker]

you can however switch different AC systems without different pantographs, The US NEC trains do this on the fly with auto switching transformers. Due to three different AC systems. 12Kv@25hz, 12.5Kv@60hz, 25KV@60hz. The New Haven line EMUs for Metro North commuter RR can do the two overhead 60hz systems and 750VDC third rail. The reason for three different AC systems is they all date back to the beginnings of railroad electrification the 25hz system is from 1915 and was built by the Pennsylvania RR, It was cheaper for Amtrak to just buy locomotives that could handle all three systems that to rebuild the whole power grid for the rail line. The interesting thing I notice with EMUs is every car will have its collector raised.

[@Misophist]

The reason for using two different sets of pantographs for the dual system loco like the class 181 shown here, isn't just the different voltage and current, but also the different height and tension of the overhead catenary. The catenary in France is lower compared to the one in Germany. That is the reason why the class 181 has such a low profile, the taller German locos wouldn't even fit below the SNCF's catenary. As a result, the pantographs for the German catenary sits lower than on a typical German loco, and has to bridge a bigger distance to the catenary - which means, the mechanism holding pressing it upright would exert a bigger force. As the force is even higher, if you would try to compress the pantograph even more for use in France, the wear on both, the pantograph and the catenary would become detrimental.

[@abelsuisse9671]

6:53 it's not so much the different current that determines the fact that some locomotives have pantographs for different countries, but the fact that there are different prescriptions when it comes to their sizes. For example trains crossing the border over from Switzerland to France can change current on the go using the same pantograph, but between Switzerland and Germany the pantographs are different. Otherwise very good summary. They're not common anymore, but panoramic passenger coaches also require in Switzerland to lift the front pantograph to protect the windows. Speed restrictions are numerous depending on the distance between pantographs. For example for Switzerland, a distance of less than 13m between them will automatically reduce the top speed to 125km/h; between 13 and 40m, to 140km/h, more than 40m 160km/h, but the speed limit will be lower if there's more than two up by train (for example with 3, or 4), and they also vary depending on the rail line, high speed lines in general are built to better standards. Checking the pantograph distance, number of them, and the tracks that will be taken by the train, is therefore one main job of the train preparator, which can be the train driver

[@WillemvanderHouven]

In fact DC pantos'on a 4 panto multtisystem locomotive are always situated in the midd position. The outher ones are AC .

[@MattijsVandebroek]

There are locs which have 2 for the netherlands and 2 for Belgium. Then they also have to chose by the direcvtion of travel etc. The dutch pantograph is wider, as the overhead wires "zigzag" a bit more than the belgian one

[@Julia_and_the_City]

This is really cool! At Breda station (NL) I often see these Traxx locomotives on the Intercity Amsterdam-Brussels change the pantographs at the platform. I always supposed it has to do with Breda station being on a tiny terminus branch of 1.5kv with the mainline being on 30kv, but now it makes more sense: when changing voltage midway the route, one would want the rearmost 1.5kv pantograph in use, and since the train changes direction at this station...

[@Renard380]

Very informative video! As a belgian train driver i will add that belgian passengers trains with locomotives are required to use the leading pantograph when two are available. I was unable to obtain an explanation as to why. We use both while the train sits idle with passenger cars under locomotive power.

[@mattiasthorslund6467]

In Sweden, some older types of electric locomotive are normally used with the front pantograph. The F class (electric) and the Ra class are two that I know of, and it's supposedly for aerodynamic reasons.

[@iosson]

A lot more interesting and complex than I thought it would be! Great video.

[@MatthewGeier]

Multi system locomotives have multiple pantographs not just for the different voltages - voltage differences can be handled inside, but different systems use different geometry overhead. Germany and Switzerland use the same voltage, but different overhead geometry, so border-crossing locomotives need a different pantograph even though the voltage is the same. I can't remember which way around they are, but one country requires a wider pantograph head than the other. The narrow head may come off the wire in the country that uses a more pronounced 'stagger' of the contact wire, and the wider head risks hitting overhead fixtures in the region that uses the less pronounced stagger. DC locomotives often had two as the current required to start a train moving was too high for one pantograph, so they would raise both and then drop one once the speed increased and the power demand dropped. I've seen many multisystem locomotives with two identical DC pantographs at each end (two raised for starting heavy loads) and two different 'AC' pantographs, the AC pantographs being set up for different overhead geometry. I assume it's usually up to the crew's diligence to ensure the correct pantograph is selected when crossing borders.

[@MervynPartin]

Very interesting. I am glad that you mentioned Great Britain. 25kVac locos were originally fitted with 2 pantographs, but as only one would be used, later locos were only fitted with one. Earlier locos had one pantograph removed. I think this was for economy reasons. On the subsequently closed Manchester-Sheffield 1500Vdc system, double headed locos usually had all pantographs raised, but line speeds were quite low.

[@drstrangelove4998]

That was fascinating, I have wondered!

[@Genius_at_Work]

Regarding the "Single Point of Contact": Triple Phase AC Electrification would be an interesting Topic. Today, it can only be found on four Rack Railways (Jungfraubahn and Gornergratbahn in Switzerland, Chemin de Fer de la Rhune in the French Pyrenees, and one more in Brasil) but it used to be much more widespread, Italy even had an extensive Mainline Network until the 1970ies. Triple Phase AC uses a bipolar Catenary, like a Trolleybus. Two Phases are in the Wires, and the Third Phase is in the Rails. The Rails are grounded like on any other Electric Train, so there is no Voltage between Rails and Ground. This is a little odd compared to "regular" Triple Phase AC, where the Neutral Point between the three Phases mostly is grounded. Meaning to say in Triple Phase AC Rail Electrification, the Pointer Diagram rotates around one Phase instead of the Neutral Point, and accordingly the Neutral Point has a Single Phase AC Voltage relative to Ground to ensure that there is no Voltage from Rails to Ground.

[@antonionunes9525]

Always the back one. In case of catenary accident it's possible to use the front one to move the train.

[@briancooper562]

Very high speed trains using one pantograph due to its induced vibration in the overhead wire up down and side to side will cause problems to any second pantograph. Requires special design in overhead wire systems to dampen wire movements.

[@nottelling8129]

I’d honestly love to see a video on the Köf II shunter. A lot of people see that it’s unusually low to the ground, but i know it’s to keep it within the loading gauge limits when they’re being transported on a flatbed from one yard to another.

[@huibertlandzaat1889]

Realy interesting topic. I did not know this. Thank you for uploading.

[@stefan_brix]

As always: Really good video with wonderful renderings and of course comprehensive and interesting facts!

[@seesaw41]

That's a really good explanation. Thank you for the insight!

[@BurlingtonBuck]

Very informative video! Never knew about all the possible combinations of pantograph usage and they all make sense!

[@Trainman10715]

the British rail class 76 locomotives of the woodhead line always ran with both pantographs raised from the late 1950s onwards, including when they were double headed

[@petrfedor1851]

And than you have some trams with two pantographs where the one in front is used usually (thou I saw opposite once)

[@Filip7370]

This is smashing topic, I love it, cant want to see an episode about the beautiful Mitteleinsteig coaches:)

[@catfish552]

That is indeed a question I have asked myself, thank you for the video! Of course, now I'm wondering about the benefits of diamond-shaped vs single-arm pantographs... 😄

[@beeble2003]

I think it's just that it took a while to get single-arm pantographs working, so older locomotives have diamonds and newer ones have single arms.

[@steelbridgemodels]

Single-arm pantographs - besides taking up less space - perform much better at higher speeds, as my next video will illustrate!

[@SabotsLibres]

What you say is true that the pick-up is only the supply, since the return goes through the rails; except!!! there is still a number of 3-phase railways (Le petit train de la Rhune in France, for example) where TWO pick-ups are needed to access two of the three phases...

[@MaxScheibenpflug]

Interesting. With modern (non-diamond-shaped) pantographs, I always assumed that the "knee" should face in the direction of travel - for mechanical reasons; it just feels logical to me. So you raise the pantograph that points the knee in the according direction. Apparently, however, that is absolutely not a factor.

[@rolfchristensen8350]

Can you do a video, on German express trains 1970/80. Which cars go with what? Did Pop cars have car transport wagons on them? Being in NZ this info is not easy to find even on the net.

[@andrewduffin9216]

I am led to believe that some trains or locomotives will raise their rear pantograph to give a buffer should the train accidentally end up on an unwired line. The extra distance might be enough to stop before the wire runs out so to speak.

[@ZugTheDragon]

Thank you for this video! Nice to finally get correct and detailed answers to this, before this video there was a lot of conflicting stuff about drag and pressure being different.. This explains the actual reasons very nicely! :D

[@timo9934]

You havent talked about which way a non diamond pantorgaph should be facing if that even matters 😂 love the videos ❤

[@bahnspotterEU]

It doesn’t matter. Compare the DB Br 101 and ÖBB Rh 1116, their pantographs face in opposite directions yet they still raise the same one (the rear one) while performing all passenger duties, at up to 200 kph for the 101 and 230 for the 1116.

[@timo9934]

@ so it doesn’t matter if it drags like this > or like this < ?

[@bahnspotterEU]

@@timo9934 Correct

[@meandwhoism]

I wonder about the thoughts behind the ever so advanced Shinkansen pantographs and the differences between the JR companies and rolling stock over the years

[@Noah-hx2px]

cool, i learned some new facts today!

[@tomseaman1108]

Very interesting, thanks!

[@railwaystuff]

thank you, always wondered about this

[@jappedut9009]

Sehr interessant und informativ ❤❤❤

[@That_One_Guy_In_A_Band]

Out of curiosity, will you one day do a video on the Deutsche Reichsbahn BR130 "Ludmilla" family of diesels? They're probably my favourite European diesel locomotives, and from what I've heard, they were quite popular with their crews, and a video on why they were so beloved would be very interesting, at least to me.

[@steelbridgemodels]

Some day certainly! After all, they are quite important to railway history and their unique appearance would make for a wonderful 3D-model. Unfortunately, however, it will probably be a while until I get around to them.

[@Waskotorowy]

We in poland have locomotives and EMUs with diamond pantographs built until the end of the 20th century

[@WisnuAji-Benjamin]

i had some question, first here we have commuter train, consist of either 12 or 10 cars. the cars usually come with 4 set, with power-trailing-trailing(pantograph)-power configuration. for 10 cars, the extra 2 usually trailing in some cases is trailing(pantograph). i live in equator, there's no ice here 1. sometimes only 2 pantograph were up for 12 cars, but some had 3 and or even 4. what condition apply so they decided to use all pantograph? 2. for 10 cars, usually it's only 1 up, but in some route, they use all pantograph 3. i realized, the more pantograph they used, the rougher it gets when accelerating

[@markst.germain9286]

Good job .

[@maxspezialbauag9745]

Switzerlands Bernina Bahn uses the second pantograph one both railcars when double heading seemingly not caring about having to clean the windscreen. Why they do it like that is a mistery to me...

[@EuroScot2023]

Probably because it's against the law for anything in Switzerland to be dirty so the pantograph just wouldn't dare!

[@maxspezialbauag9745]

@EuroScot2023 but they are making the windscreen on the second railcar dirty wich makes no sense to me...

[@beeble2003]

Europe: For proper operation, you must do this, and this, and this, and also this, and these things, too. Britain: Each locomotive has one pantograph. If you need a double-header, just put two locomotives together. If the windscreen gets dirty, wash it. Everything works fine. Actually, I suspect the real issue is ice on the overhead wires. The UK doesn't generally get very cold, so ice isn't a big deal and one pantograph is enough. Parts of Europe get much colder, so two pantographs are needed. Once you have two pantographs, you may as well optimize their use in different situations.

[@stepankoor]

In russia, you use the rear pantograph since if the pantograph breaks it falls onto the couppler and not on important locomotive equipment. However, on 3kV = current, you use both pantographs when starting to move to distributev large anmounts of electricity

[@ehsnils]

Sweden is a bit odd when it comes to overhead lines on trains. It's 15kV with 16 2/3Hz frequency.

[@stefan_brix]

No, it is a very common system in Europe which is used in Norge, Germany, Switzerland and Austria. - But yes, it was a historical decision, that was made at a time, when electrical motors (of a size for trains) where not available for 50 Hz and the idea was to use AC, because you can transform it and therefore use high voltages and low currents.

[@peter_s]

Hammer Video, super erklärt und durch deine schönen 3D Modelle auch richtig gut illustriert. Gibt es Pläne deine Videos nochmal auf deutsch rauszubringen? Ich komme zwar ganz gut mit Englisch zurecht bevorzuge aber dann gerade bei komplexeren Themen doch auch gerne mal meine Muttersprache. Aber alles in allem wirklich großartig gemacht. Mein Abo hast du auf jedenfall. Gruß Peter

[@TheStickCollector]

Most wouldn't think about this casually, especially in America where a large portion of people dismiss trains entirely outside of the northeast corridor. Nice to hear about.

[@thatrandomguy8124]

Isn't there significantly less wind resistance if you use the rear pantograph as well?

[@rachelpurity1]

Why would having only one contact point be less of an issue in slower locomotives? It seems to me, the opposite would be the case intuitively, as the fast moving train could use its momentum to bridge a sort of "hole" in the connection.

[@Lightning_Mike]

Ooooh, an E410!

[@Tsass0]

I found this interesting

[@H0Fidelity-rq4ry]

So, how do they make the transition between electrical systems?

[@osmanpasha_diy]

While renders are really cool, for factual videos it would be nice to have photos of real things as much as possible.

[@ImieNazwiskoOK]

Aside from 2 pantographs giving redundancy, why not just use electrical switches instead of having up to 4 of them? For example turning a switch so current from the same pantograph goes to the 1500V- input and circuitry instead of the 3000V- one, instead of changing the pantograph.

[@steelbridgemodels]

Many locomotives even have those switches in case the required pantograph is defective. But this is only an emergency solution, as different electric systems often come with a different geometry of the overhead wire, too. E.g. a system with a stronger zig-zag of the wire requires a wider pantograph head.

[@GenX-Gamore]

I watched a video a while ago, and it explained that the rear pantograph was the choice to use due to aerodynamics. Can you elaborate on this?

[@dapje2002]

Very interesting video! I subbed. You didn't address the difference between the diamond shaped and the single arm pantograph though...

[@owencarlstrand1945]

Inherently it feels better to pull something along a wire rather than push it.

[@silverfox2358]

I thought it was to power *2 transformers then *2 horse power or *2 watts of power to the locos driving wheels?

[@Killerspieler0815]

Interesting ... but you made a mistake, Switzerland has 15kV 16,7 Hz like Germany & Austria & Sweden ...

[@stekra3159]

Dont get me started on Vectorn they have 4 pantorgraph

[@thefuturelineman9384]

I wonder what would happen if it was a double header, sensitive cargo and there was ice

[@thefuturelineman9384]

Or even a Triple header

[@DiegoTheGreenCowcatcherBoi]

Where tf did you get these models?

[@bahnspotterEU]

He makes them himself

[@DiegoTheGreenCowcatcherBoi]

@bahnspotterEU oh wahh

[@maxrburgess]

Seems strange to me than AC and DC need different pantographs. Can't they just flick a switch? Why is this?

[@TheFrenchPlayer]

peak

[@Xanthopteryx]

The worlds strongest electric locomotive is paired in the Swedish Malmbanan, and they seem to use rear one on both units. Also in the summer. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5eZqIN_odl3pbs

[@alt8620]

7:09 average locomotive in romania

[@yuvanshhariramani9685]

diesel engine in the corner

[@HardKickinGroupGermany]

I want to say, that those rules don't apply to every country.

[@InevitableMe]

It is interesting to note that this does not apply universally. In NSW, Australia, until the end of electric freight haulage in 2001, our 1500v DC locomotives would usually operate in sets of 2-3, with every single pantograph raised. Additionally, although the first of the class 46s used diamond pantographs, later locomotives used a design I have heard reffered to as a "Comeng box pantograph" which has a shape sort of like this, but rotated 90 degrees to the left: >. Any idea why they operatef that way?

[@thomasgabler3476]

I guess they raised both because of low speeds and high current. The comeng pantograph is more compact and needs less space on the roof when lowered.

[@InevitableMe]

@thomasgabler3476 Yes, the speeds were slower, usually 60-75 kilometres per hour, although they could theoretically go up to 115-120 kilometres per hour.