When Whiff Punishing Is Wrong | Reaction To Bonchan's Advice (Chris_F Translation)

[@dhayris160]

I'm commenting before I watch the video. Whatever your stance is, it's wrong.

[@protodevilin]

Classic option select.

[@kunnu_4]

@@protodevilin this is so good

[@downrightfiercerare1565]

Dude I started clapping when you said the round count is more important than the life bar

[@TheAce1183]

Just to comment on Bonchans video (I've been watching alot of his streams where he coaches players/vtubers and I understand japanese aswell.) All the pro players teach the master rank players about the "triangle of options". おき aka putting a button out to take space, 差し返し aka whiff punishing (which beats the previous option), 差し込み aka attacking with moves that will reach the opponent (like cr mk drive rush in sf6). So purely focusing on just whiff punishing is weak since you're missing the other parts of the triangle so to speak.

[@JiBbo]

Thank you

[@vincentFGC]

could you expand on that last one?

[@alexisc.7887]

​​@@vincentFGCthe last option in the triangle is basically just going on the offensive. Hitting a button you know won't whiff because your opponent is already in range, drive rushing at them, etc... all stuff that beat the second option aka the defensive/reactive opponent who's looking for a whiff punish. Then to beat that you have to use the first option, aka pre-emptively occupying space with your buttons to prevent your opponent from just doing stuff to you, making you vulnerable again to the second option, defensive/whiff-punish style play. A good player is able to freely switch between these 3 playstyles depending on the situation or the opponent. Hope it's clearer to you.

[@vincentFGC]

@@alexisc.7887 yes it is! thank you so much

[@vincentFGC]

@@alexisc.7887 im still low master, ive somewhat "earned" neutral aka I can handle most gimmicks which forces neutral, but my footsies game still isnt there yet, I whiff a lot or buttons in neutral, and good neutral players will whiff punish me, this made me realize I dont use raw dr nearly enough

[@fernandocepeda1719]

this is exactly what is happening to me, i got to 1700MR and i notice now ppl dont commit THAT much to random things, so playing passive adds so much mental stack; you end up being mixed.

[@JiBbo]

SALSA VERDE!

[@shymera]

i blame sajam when he jokingly said "you can whiff punish with walk forward"

[@remigengogakusha]

I already knew this truth months ago from your video "How To SKIP Neutral with Jamie" 😸👍

[@fodolocraigo8426]

I'm watching this just to repeat these thoughts to my local tourney

[@Zachary_Sweis]

Yeah I know that language changes and there's nothing I can do about it, but it is annoying that the term "whiff punish" is now used as a catch-all term for almost any kind of hit you achieve in neutral while your opponent is in the middle of any kind of animation. For instance, people use it to describe counter-poking now.

[@SparkyForce]

You have to call it a “reaction” whiff punish even though that’s supposed to be implied

[@luderzuckerfan6990]

I think thr broadening of the term whiff punish started with sf4 people doing option select sweeps whenever they saw a button

[@TelvanniWizardMoneyGang]

thats not how that works, option selects let you not even have to see a button, you just time the sweep with another cr. jab or short so that if it whiffs on the invulnerability of backdash, the recovery is short enough that your sweep comes out and automatically punishes the backdash, whereas if it hits, it just chains into another jab or short and your sweep never comes out. You could also OS a lot of Ultras with this, or on safejumps where the same logic applies, the block or hitstun of landing a jump in doesn't allow for the inputted Ultra to come out, whereas if there's any invulnerability on their wakeup, your jumping attack recovers and Ultra comes out.

[@luderzuckerfan6990]

@@TelvanniWizardMoneyGang I didn't mean the backdash select, I just meant the act of e.g. seeing a sweep and hitting ur own without confirming wether it was blocked.

[@TelvanniWizardMoneyGang]

@@luderzuckerfan6990 okay well that's not an option select, you said option select so I got confused.

[@duxnihilo]

I like that I'm watching you watching a bloke watch Bonchan.

[@AMNON489]

That thumbnail had me crying 😂😂

[@PomadaGaming]

1:13 nah i would hope not

[@sawyersimpkins9428]

In short: It's difficult to whiff punish normals, even more so as you look at faster normals, even more so under pressure in tournament. Are you really good enough to blame any loss on whiff punishing mediums alone? There are many other aspects of fighting games that are easier to implement, which will provide a bigger improvement to your game.

[@xyz39808]

drive system is sick lol Amazing tool for the low low cost of 1 gauge

[@PomadaGaming]

Chris F got it

[@DragonflySwamp]

From a Guilty Gear perspective, rhythm is an EXTREMELY important factor in the neutral game and pressure. Giving your opponent total control over both your rhythms is a very bad idea. It's also practically impossible to reaction whiff punish any normal, and the game is full of disjointed red blocks like Ky 2S and Raven 5H, but... 😅

[@DarkSynth]

What video playback are you using to draw?

[@vincentFGC]

ayyy mentioning my homie adrian riven!

[@jpVari]

To me, whiff punishing I've heard of as part of a triangle with pre emotive attacking and trying to walk forward to make contact. So in any game it'd be risky to rely on, altho I see how sfv is more suited to it. But this game surely if anything leads to the advance and making contact part of the triangle... And that beats whiff punishing.

[@MarkoLomovic]

you can't play by just using one thing if you are only doing one thing that you are into extremes where if you are only doing whiff punishing then you are to passive and opponent is going to abuse that.

[@RompecuelloPR]

When’s sagat?

[@DUBSDADEVILL]

This is true unless you "whiff punish" the absence of a button or movement this gives you the momentum.In neautral i crouch block to "take a picture" then punish your whiffs but i also punush your absence of whiff this is my strategy for Third Strike by the way.

[@RompecuelloPR]

Elaborate

[@DUBSDADEVILL]

@@RompecuelloPR So in thirdstrike whith Ken i have neautral routines.I walk into the range of your furthest reaching poke and crouch block for 1 frame (if i notice you reading me i crouch twice).If you whiff a normal i have safe routines.Fireball standing Hard kick low medium kick (i hit confirm even without special).If you do nothing i also use safe normals but 1 out of 3 times i have risky attacks dash throw,dash medium hard punch into hard punch special walk up throw dash low lite kick lite kick into special.This insures i dictate a highspeed pace and that i am actively reacting and not predicting your descision i also only jump in after a whiff normal this means your reaction anti air times have to be that little quicker.

[@booce6969]

how do you counter someone who whiffs at an awkward spacing and then presses again

[@ghiidra__]

try jumping in maybe. players doing this intentionally will be looking for your whiffed whiff punish and won't be as ready to aa

[@Dr.Faustus.]

Depends who you're playing and how bad the recovery on the next button they press. Recreate the scenario in practice with recording and find option that works best for you

[@IytrrvItru]

Simple really , bait them out with a jab so they press a button again, then you punish their attempt at whiff punishing . What they are doing is called a "space trap" or some ppl call it a frame trap although that's wrong , a frametrap is a you pressing another button when you are on plus frames so you catch them if they press anything .

[@RompecuelloPR]

I can bet your talking about marissa

[@unpalette8732]

search engine optimization

[@MrDadumbo1]

Whiff punish is part of high level game play…do you need it, no. Do most pro use it or know how to….they pretty much can do everything you can do and better. Guess, footsie, whiff punish, spacing, change of style, set up, meaty, mental, patience etc. you need everything to be great.

[@Forse702]

26-9=17

[@RashaEX]

most dashes in sf3 are faster than drive rush but without the giant green flash... DR cancel for mix is strong and can make for braindead confirms but with a big meter investment. By comparison the only resource investment in 3s is super which is typically only spent on hit if we're talking strong players, and then largely reclaimed by the followup combo. The risk to sitting in block & reacting in sf6 can often be lower too with 3s having presence like sa2 makoto or generally just letting your opponent build meter. Seems to me like if sf6 went patchless for 10+ years instead of 1 then it really wouldn't be too dissimilar.

[@joedelafro4629]

Mhmm

[@JiBbo]

yup

[@SquidwardProfilePic]

This is why I say that street fighter 6 is a game starting your BS before they start their own. This is not a game about waiting and baiting, it’s fundamentally the opposite. It’s way better to focus on what YOU want to do rather than try to anticipate what THEY wanna do. I think this game needs to have 5 rounds maximum instead of 3, because getting 2’0d in this game can easily be 60 secs worth of gameplay if you just guess wrong 4 or 5 times. Not to mention it gives you more time adapt to whatever crackhead playstyle you have to deal with.