When Will MMORPGs Become Popular Again? | Asmongold Reacts to TheLazyPeon

When Will The MMORPG Glory Days Return? Is Blizzard the last to create a legendary MMO or will the Riot MMO resurrect the genre?
Original Video by TheLazyPeon: • When Will The MMORPG G...
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[@Edvardas96]

You know why the worlds felt like mystery back then? Because you didn't start your playthrough after watching videos/streams/reviews of it and googling guides to follow... going into a game blindly is what we miss these days

[@Donkyelburro]

I dont do it and hace a life a outside of mmorpg. Im never gonna first first anything but everytime y log in i still enjoy every bit of it for the short time i have to play.

[@matjazpreksavec2681]

So true. I specifically hate early release

[@juroph7]

Guides and “meta builds” ruin every game nowadays. It sucks

[@DsgSleazy]

@@juroph7 Fuck that shit, I love meta builds, not everyone wants to test a bunch of bullshit to find what works, some people like to get the meta shit to get to the fun shit.

[@PeterDB90]

This happens if a) the video game company itself releases guides b) the video game company provides early game access/information to companies that write guides so they can write a guide for it, or to players who also test all builds and let you know which one is the best c) the video game itself is easily resolved and the players can figure out quickly which builds are the best within a week of the game's release. World of Warcraft was released when internet was already a thing - there WERE guides online, but they didn't appear as quickly and they weren't always easy to find or were inaccurate. But World of Warcraft also designed their game in a way that it was difficult to test which builds were most optimal without actually playing the game, so people discovered "meta builds" naturally, and gradually as the game was played. There was no issue with this formula - people knew certain builds were ineffective pretty much during the first raid, and by then they were playing for a WHILE just to get to the level cap and get the gear/attunements to raids.

[@JbMuz]

Obviously it's not just some single thing that has caused mmo's to drop in popularity but people always talk about the games themselves when one of the biggest changes in MMO has been the playerbase itself. The prevelance and ease of access for info/guides in places like KZbin has had a massive effect on the playerbase. Multiplayer games are inherently competitive to a degree and no one wants to be the one who falls behind or holds back their guild/friendgroup so the majority of players today use guides for raids/dungeons/specs/rotation which sucks some of the mystery and adventure out of the experience. I am only speaking for myself but I don't think im alone in the feeling that mmo's have just lost there sense of adventure for many people.

[@bravepotatoe7513]

I remember back in the days you didn't copy a build because it was mathematically the best on a website you copied the build of that 1 guy that was kicking everyone's ass in duels for an hour straight in front of stormwind

[@katbat2379]

Its the necessity to do grinding, raids and dungeons that MMORPGs died because they are not really suitable in MMORPGs. The original MMORPGs did not have them at all :). You levelled through time spent in the game itself. This gave you skill points to assign in your combat meter. You bought your weapons from third party creators but none gave an advantage over the other. You had different races with different skill sets, weakness and strengths and of course their worlds were different as well but the combat meters were active where ever you went. There were so many factions and guilds. So much roleplay and combat. It was the best gaming experience ever. They were born in the first 3D simulators. The gaming world is different now and so are the MMORPGs.

[@sillafu8595]

I think what people consider 'grinding' was core gameplay back then. I remember being excited in vanilla wow to group up and kill an elite mob. Sure it got grindy after a while but you were drip fed enough to keep going. In raids this is just referred to as trash mobs. i.e. trash gameplay. so a new mmo needs to turn the grinding and trash back into fun somehow as well as the end game.

[@torrix_4595]

I've decided that whenever Ashes of Creation and the Riot MMOcomes out (whenever that will be). I will not be gluing my eyes to guides and builds. Only thing i'll do is check out the gist of the different classes to know which one I would play and look at solutions if theres a bugged quest or similar issue. I think those two games are the only games (as far as I'm aware) that even have a shot of becoming the big successful MMOand seem promising. Ashes of Creation for how open they seem to be about development and Riot MMO just for their track records of not being pay to win and having pretty consistent good lore and appreciation for their games. And if they fail I'll give up on a new MMOs having good potential.

[@wasacotte]

A look a youtuber blaming the gaming business they ruined gaming. Anyways...

[@mattemattics5667]

I don’t think they’ll ever be. The early 2000s were a different time in the world. We had less mass communication resources. Online games were how we played together. There weren’t theorycrafting sources. We all just discovered everything together through collaborative gameplay. And of course, it was all new. We hadn’t all played 20 different MMOs. It was a brand new experience for all of us. We are far beyond those days.

[@Little_Beggar]

Yeah I feel like the rest of the internet ruined MMOs in a way. Even for single player games like elden ring / dark souls or something you have to go out of your way to avoid spoiling the experience. Not to mention it's almost instinct now, as an adult, to look up solutions instead of banging my head against a wall because of time limitations. I'm not a wide eyed child anymore either so the magic is mostly gone anyways, as at this age everything feels like a reiteration of something that I've already seen before.

[@xalderin3838]

I'd have to disagree. I have a sneaking suspicion that once we have the technology and tools to do it, VR will likely be what it takes to revive the MMORPG genre. And it will revive it in a way no one expects (minus a few that have been waiting for it). But, we're easily a good 5-15 years away from this. Right now, the tech isn't good enough, as of yet. But it will certainly get there, and it'll restart the genre, massively.

[@Merilirem]

@@xalderin3838 My expectation is that a combination of AI generation with VR and growing computing power will create something magical in the coming decades. Its advancing faster than people realize and soon enough every game could become Minecraft AIDs.

[@eclipse369.]

@@xalderin3838 at this rate the world is going to go to hell with government forced starvation before that happens lol

[@logirex]

Teens spend an average of seven hours and 22 minutes on their phones a day. So we are not getting mmo games popular like we did 20 years ago ever again.

[@imaqt3.14]

How is FF14 AND CLASSIC WOW not a good example. Classic felt like I was in the mid 2000s.

[@paullin4393]

for PvP, BattleRoyale games (Apex Legend) gives me the same thrill without the hassle to collect pvp gears.

[@aeggeska1]

When they start respecting the customers time. When they stop filling their game with microtransactions and P2W. When you feel like your time spent in the game matters.

[@ekuda]

so just play final fantasy 14

[@DoffyDogg]

@@ekuda hard pass. The game is filled with ppl with huge booba chars.

[@intensellylit4100]

@@DoffyDogg do you want them replaced with bowls of fruit?

[@scottscott3463]

My friend recently got me back into WoW again, and while I'm enjoying it. Ultimately the game mechanics are still pretty simple. Quests are usually fetch quests or kill this number or people, while pressing the keys and clicks hundreds of thousands of time. Much like other people have said, the hardware needs to grow, to be more like Sword Art Online, so the immersion will be there. But also, the game mechanics need to be far better. For example, Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. The times of day made the townspeople do specific things at certain times. It made the people feel more alive. Imagine that in an MMORPG, it would make that digital world feel far more real.

[@vokuhila6913]

when riots mmo comes out

[@Knsy]

Mmorpweebs

[@lordwiszniewski4857]

@@Knsy ok boomer

[@Knsy]

Ahaha got em raging already lel

[@lordwiszniewski4857]

@@Knsy lel

[@shakeweller]

"There is missing something from these games to make them truly immersive again..." Yes, and we will NEVER get that back. It's the lack of information. The mystery. The internet has ruined that. WOTLK is basicly where spreading information became so easy that it affected the magic of any online or even offline videogame to a point where gaming as a whole changed forever. And you can not go back. It's impossible. WoW was simply lucky to be the big game right before social media and wikis kicked in. That's why games like FFXIV and ESO take a different and also successful approach. You're not chasing the best gear or items anymore as the primary feature, you're chasing the story. And you will come back for it, even if you're not subbed all the time. It works and playing each story arc blind is a magical experience in both games.

[@sosiaty]

and for FFXIV, its not just the great story. you can do so much stuff besides challenges or chasing biS gear - there is this huge RP community, glamour as the true endgame, you can spend hours and hours in gold saucer or you can just do random or stupid shit with ppl in cities. it feels somewhat like "the old days". FFXIV is probably the peak of mmorpgs right now

[@shakeweller]

BTW im not simping for eso or ffxiv. Especially ffxiv is completly trash in the job design part and it gets worse and worse. But the story is 10/10

[@ToyokaX]

My GF and I started playing BotW recently and although I am more of a gamer than her, she enjoys just exploring and doing random stuff. So I made it a point for myself to not look at any guides or anything, and I have also enjoyed it much more than I would otherwise have just min-maxing an open world singleplayer game. The problem when doing that in an MMO is that you aren't the only one playing. There will never be a time where people will not have access to information, unless google/the internet collectively wipes itself out/restarts and we start from scratch again. MMOs that focus more on social aspects or gameplay loops that require less knowledge will win out over the more "hardcore" ones that keep trying to pop up and stay alive.

[@shakeweller]

@@ToyokaX Lucky you're not single like me lmao. If I had a partner they have to beat me in Mario Kart consistently to be worthy 😁

[@narue2840]

This doomer aproach is getting annoying. That's not true at all.

[@pieking911]

It was also great back when there were legendary characters(players) in the game that were only known for the avatar and not the streamer.

[@TheBrick534]

THIS! It added a sense of immersion that the world you were playing in was entirely it’s own, separate from real life. MMOs were once the perfect escape from the real world for that exact reason. They had their own social structure/hierarchy, their own economies, their own dangers and motivations. Now, most mmos seem like cut and paste dogshit that is dry of any real character or sense of self-identity.

[@gachigasm3210]

MMORPG's are stuck in the same type of gameplay loop from 20 years ago, it was immersive back then but now, not so much. At best modern MMORPG feels like a scuffed singleplayer game with some people running around. MMORPG's were ahead of their time in early 2000s, now they're 10 years behind.

[@XnarozX]

The problem with mmos is that the games fucking suck lol, sure I could waste time falling asleep to ffxiv combat or etc, but why? Many other games have better stories, combat, graphics and overall gameplay than mmos, and without the massive grind that comes along with mmos, why would I grind just to experience an inferior gameplay to something I can find in another game? only real remaining appeal mmos have is the massively multiplayer part.

[@velDANTe]

and new games are immersive how?

[@elementalgolem5498]

When AI becomes so advanced that it can recreate real life in a fantasy setting. MMORPGs would not only take over but become the only game(s) out there because they allow for all types of gameplay within the game

[@rivernovell7742]

@@arohk4415 i think they mean like recreate interactions with npcs like how a person irl would react when you walk up in full armor and a sword asking them if they have any quests. More immersion than the same preset line/s every time you interact with the same npc.

[@freezerness]

Take never played final fantasy 11, bots players created, beyond speak

[@elementalgolem5498]

@@arohk4415 mate when it comes to "future AI Gameplay" people tend to mean as realistic as real life. And immersive, but instead of student loans raging fire down on you from up above it's a dragon.

[@11th_defender51]

I really don't think this is a good thing. What happens later when every player can make their own game by just asking the ai to make it? That'll mean single-player developers will lose their job and you'll only need a team of designers for a multiplayer game to be made. And if everyone has their perfect single player game for them, you can't have shared stories about how you solved some problem or something else. Just scary.

[@elementalgolem5498]

@@11th_defender51 did you not get the MMO part of the game? It wouldn't be the perfect single player game. It would be essentially the perfect multiplayer game. Have you seen ready player one? Sort of that style. All games can be played from within the MMO

[@omny6686]

When a small developer somehow gets enough funding to care about the details of their game, rather than how many ways they can profit from the game, that is when you'll get your fun MMO.

[@jeffsanders5444]

@@DeeFourCee that game is going to be awful , they are just gonna keep pushing back release date and release Sumthing similar 2 New World.

[@BlackCreater]

​@@DeeFourCee I hate how AOC has such a small but vocal group of supporters so I can't even tell if a comment is satire or not. because if it's not satire, you just recommended a game that got funded all of it's NEEDED budget + found huge investors and is STILL trying to suck dry it's funders for a game that is still not out. You also still pre-order shit dont u

[@janitorizamped]

Small developers can't make good mmo's

[@mnamethonk]

@@DeeFourCee That game isn't even out yet...

[@johntthurmon]

Pantheon!!

[@cloudsipper4209]

It's nice hearing the EQ2 character selection music in the video. Brings back so many memories that I wish I would have enjoyed longer than I did.

[@michaelreid5307]

MMOs will never be "massively multiplayer" again because of apps such as Discord that take the community & the conversations out of the game world.

[@noahlederer8587]

its just an extra layer. in new world each big community-built company/server had discord and it made room for spies and made planning possible. but you would still text the people you encounter ingame righht now and maybe even invite them to join voice

[@beyondtriggered]

I don't think that takes away the multiplayer part at all... if anything it allows people to communicate more easily and makes the community more accessible

[@andreostermann8453]

Will never forget how we hung out in the Bank of Orgrimmar 3 people dressed as Bankiers greeting the people with different Makros we made, while manhunt our taure would sweep the floor in the background, ultimately recruiting for the guild. But for a hole day people came around cause they heard there were some crazy dudes in the bank of og. Simply that's the point because even wow sucks now, everything is about min max getting to the finish line asap, when was the last time in a mmo where u even recognized a wonderful place during running to all these question marks that weren't there in the first place.

[@stewarde17]

The big thing is the lore and story that will keep you coming back each expansion. If you look at the ones that stayed around you will see this trend. Also one the biggest things that hurt mmo today is it take longer to develop good content and at same time take far less time to reach max level in a mmo.

[@oldsoldier3972]

@4:36 "I complete the game before I move on." He started FFXIV over a year ago and is about 1/3rd of the way through Stormblood 4.0 when he returned on June 22nd of this year. Instead of finishing Stormblood, Asmon opted to play a Genshin wannabe P2W game and now a "game he completed in 2010" after returning to streaming somewhat regularly. He says he completes games, but I see some inconsistency in that statement. Unless of course he intends to finish FFXIV when 7.0 is due to be released. LOL

[@oldsoldier3972]

@@Zantetsudex Indeed, he is a WoW addict. Nothing wrong with that. I know a lot of people are like that, I used to be one of them before they burned that bridge for me with the endless borrowed power grinds. I won't ever go back, the time we have is finite.

[@plac1197]

I'm surprised he made it as far into FFXIV as he did. I really didn't think he'd enjoy it. I think he'd have more fun with it playing it off stream at his leisure. Too many spergs following him around in game when he streams it.

[@Riku2005]

i dont think he wants to play it anymore, just a one off for him.

[@oldsoldier3972]

@@Riku2005 Only he knows the answer to that. He certainly hasn't given any indication one way or another. It's his stream, his time, he can do whatever gives him the happy chemicals.

[@oldsoldier3972]

@@whitecoffee05 I would like to see him finish it too and his reaction to 4.3 - 4.5, which I really enjoyed playing through. The dungeons and trials got much better, and the cliff hanger is a chef's kiss ending/beginning for ShB. The combat with the GCD is what it is. I like it with the way the dungeons and trials are designed. But that's just me.

[@deviilzz666]

I think one of the problems is that MMO players, more than any other type of genre, are divided into various groups. Casual players, hardcore players, people that want change, people that don't want change, and then a mix and match of all of them. And I'm not saying this is all the consumers' fault, but they play a massive part. Back when MMO's first started coming out I feel like they were a lot less divisive because it was fresh and exciting to everyone, but over time they've had to make changes and implement different systems etc to prevent it becoming stale, and with that the division started growing. Toss in a few shady business practices here and there and now basically nobody is happy. I think the companies have become more neglectful and money hungry over time, and the players have become too picky. Of course the rise of other popular game genres like Battle Royales don't help, as they draw attention away from other genres. I also just think the wonderlust of diving into a fantasy world has dissipated as both MMO's and fantasy have become oversaturated, overplayed, and a lot of people have just accepted it as the norm rather than something new and exciting.

[@stepbackletgo]

To be fair every genre has that combination of players. Casuals, hardcore players, people who desperately need updates and others who don't.

[@antongrigoryev6381]

@@stepbackletgo Yes, but MMOs rely on player interaction much more than other games, so such division of the playerbase affects them much more.

[@stephenc-s7642]

I started playing WoW in Classic and I've seen the game change so much since then. The graphics are an order of magnitude better than they used to be, the engine is so much faster and more responsive, the story telling has (mostly) become much more immersive, there many more quests than there used to be. So why is it losing players? I believe it's because the player base itself has changed. Many enhancements have been made to the game to cater for the changes that the changing player base has demanded. Some of those enhancements have been extremely popular, such as Mythics plus, but those enhancements have also introduced new problems too. The original WoW was designed from the roots up to give each class it's own unique flavour, with different abilities and drawbacks for each spec. Now it's all about that mythical thing called 'balance', meaning that all classes have to do about the same dps in mythic runs. Compare that to the original Blackwing Lair, where you needed a wide range of classes and specs to be able to clear it. The sense of 'community' has also been downgraded considerably over the years. Back then if you wanted to raid successfully you had to be in a raiding guild. It was also a social tool - it was where you hung out with your friends. Nowadays you can use Group Finder to find raids or dungeons you're interested in, but doing so removes the social stuff that you got in the original guilds. The players nowadays are also much more independent. It feels to me like the young adults nowadays believe "it's all about me", so guilds and other sources of social interactions are much less important. That also gives them a lot less reason to chill out in the game. I don't know what can be done to give players good reasons to stay in a MMORGP, but the changes to modern society would have to be addressed and catered for in order to bring back the "Glory Days".

[@riverhunter21226]

BOOMER MOMENT

[@Devin7Eleven]

Never. MMOs require social interaction and our current culture is incredibly fragile, toxic, or brain dead. Say something remotely offensive to your average Twitter user and your gonzo

[@oldmanskin8554]

Don’t forget the zoomies and there massive adhd.

[@Devin7Eleven]

@@oldmanskin8554 yeah, my generation can't pay attention to anything that lasts longer than a Twitter post

[@Erickhetfield]

The MMO community is sad. It feels like everybody is trapped in their childhood and refusing to move on. Crying for the next big MMO, failing to realize that what they really want is to be able to feel like they did the first time they played WoW. Is just nostalgia and it is pathetic.

[@dreamer6737]

Playing my first mmo was such a magical experience back then. It was Final Fantasy 11, and it really felt like another world. Gameplay was rough but extremely rewarding. Meeting other players and traveling and battling together was so much fun.

[@merovingee1]

I still think that the only era when MMORPGs will be good again is when we will have Ready Player One-like technology to go on the adventures in a high tech VR-like environment. Until then everything is doomed

[@ZekethePhoenix]

I think my biggest issue with VR MMOs is they are all first person. I think 3rd person games will continue having their places in the industry.

[@Plamler]

@@ZekethePhoenix Yeah, but if we get the VRMMO that tricks all your senses and your brain into thinking that you are in the game is so incredibly immersive. Personally, I think you just need to look at military sim technology to see the real future of VR. After all, they are already using that stuff to train drone pilots to do missions.

[@taylorcliff6609]

@@Plamler VR has a massive problem with motion simulation causing artificial vertigo and motion sickness, including military VRs. few research papers coming out atm explaining that VR attached to the head without any resistance causes miscommunications, miss firings and over stimulation of the brain. people who spend a long time playing VR have reported dizziness, vomiting, vertigo whilst trying to sleep, head aches, loss sense of direction, loss of time, the list goes on. VR is not viable, and probably wont be viable for anything intense for a while. AR and VR 2 different things. AR will be everywhere well before things become fully VR.

[@txmits507]

Choices were impactful and choices were meaningful aren't the same thing. Not being able to redo talents isn't meaningful. Rolling a new character just to get redo stats is garbo.

[@armagedonshoes]

Probably when RIOT's MMO comes out and loads of people who have played LoR, LoL, or watched Arcane will get into it - along with a vast amount of MMO fans. (my opinion)

[@Absinthexx7]

I think the state of mmo games is fine. They might not catch as much with the younger crowd as they used to because games have evolved, and I think that's fine. No matter how good an mmo is, it's going to be hard to compete with games like fortnite or league of legends because those games are naturally going to be much faster paced. People who prefer those kinds of games will stick to their genre and that's okay, but lots of younger people still play mmo games if they enjoy roleplaying games and it's interesting. Additionally with how many people have quit WoW it feels like more games are being considered a real game when back in TBC or wrath, probably all the way up to legion, it felt like any new game was going to die with the next wow expansion because of how big wow's playerbase was and how much money goes into making an mmorpg and consistently updating it. I actually love the state of mmos right now

[@Loockerz01]

I think the main reason behind the decline of MMORPG is the advance of technology, internet access specially. Back then consoles games had no internet connection. Almost all of them was made for the singleplayer/couch co-op experience. So the only options left to have a multiplayer experience was to call your friends to your house or go to theirs, or....PC online games, and MMORPGs was all we got. Nowadays, everything is online, everything is "multiplayer" someway, MMORPGs got competition on this aspect, too fucking much competition.

[@zlan1684]

Never, too many games out there for mmo’s to be popular again. You all have blinders on if you think otherwise. Unless VR tech comes close to Ready player One and I don’t see that in our gaming lifetime

[@Ruzzky_Bly4t]

The tech from ready player one is literally impossible. You're on some treadmill, or sitting inside a seat, while you're running and jumping in the game. Brain implants would be the way to go, but that does seem very far-fetched, if it would even become legal.

[@DatMasterHunts]

Now know people will argue the question of VRMMORPGs, you have to understand that people have to not only have a PC that can run it, but you also need to buy the Headset. I'm strictly not mentioning Quest since the technology has more limitations for a game of that size. I would like a see a full AAA MMORPG like say WoW, FFXIV, etc as a VR version, but the demand isn't there and isn't going to be there for a while. However, I feel like being in VR, it might revitalize the feeling like how WoW use to be when it came out.

[@Zarocaz]

The way MMOs impacted me and my friend group will never be experienced again, same with many groups before me with prior older gamers, the thing that changes the playing field these days is how prevalent it already all is - I don't think it's difficult for younger kids to focus, but their friend groups are more than likely online more often and thus discover more than one major main game. Many younger people can communicate in what seems like hundreds of different avenues, games are plenty. Games like RuneScape (which was my primary MMO with my friends) felt much more alive when you could see people running about and make easy friends. I loved logging in and completing quests getting lost in a world and actually playing with my friends who would be on most of the time, real actual friends in my life i went to school with and saw often. I had a much larger emotional investment in it in good part because of that. It would take a focus of gamers young and old alike to help revive and foster something as impactful of a scale, it would really have to have an enticing platform and I think the game culture of the community and developers would have to transform and meet a much more respected standard. Right now it is a vapid, fleeting micro-transactional wasteland of poorly structured stories with glitzy graphics and alluring characters which fizzle and fade as fast as they appear. For a truly titanic MMO to staple itself in, you have to bring something timeless that'll capture many people to adventure forth and feel the sense of belonging within the community. Things similar to Final Fantasy's community would be a good direction here, I feel that their community is a representation of the average Final Fantasy fan, and it provides their users with a interconnected world that a broad spectrum of people enjoy and already know of. I feel that Riot's upcoming MMO could achieve this, with many of its' former Moba players having played League before, and with its' current MMO news in the public's collective gaze, it could rally and reignite an already actively gaming age group. On the upside, while the MOBA's community itself is unquestionably toxic at competitive levels, the lore behind many of the characters is quite rich and the world is very well designed and accessible even now on their supported web pages. I look forward to it as long as it doesn't follow the WoW-type formula. That method approach probably won't succeed in today's saturated market. Perhaps a scaled-back UI and a console-type MMO/open world experience. Something that doesn't have a hundred different clickables on screen and has a beautifully written overall story with compelling ideas to later build on into the future.

[@TheFatCarpBaitCo]

I'm a grumpy 40yr old whose been playing MMOs for ever I can think back to simply ganging up with 20 or so guildies and just hunting the maps for a cool place to sit and hang out. It was that level of social interaction that made older MMOs a cool place to hang out for hours not just the grinding of gears or PvP. 1 thing I would add is that most MMOs bust on release or close to it getting a smooth release limited server wait times bugs glitches broken mechanisms people now won't hive games time or a second chance they will just log into something else so I think launching a game that has a really solid start which makes leveling and gearing fun and then stage releases and ramp up the content as players progress could help a lot.

[@BaconNDCheese]

to your point on viewing steam charts for ff14. Alot of people in my FC play on console and some of them don't even go through the game on steam. With that being said though, I only go back to the game when expansions come out and play for a few weeks and finish the raids and stop until more content comes out.

[@saulosilva1236]

The game Asmon wants for so long exists and it is called TIBIA. There is a TON of social interaction, you can benefit a lot from hunting together with your friends (and you can/will die from PVE! Crazy isnt it?), PVP is great, etc. Questing still by far the best we have ever seen. Even your "transmogs" are hard as fck to do so people value how you look in the game. Too bad that any guild content related became P2W after Tibia Coins were released. Still a great MMO if you have like 2hrs to play per day.

[@eclipse369.]

Tibia was awesome

[@BerkKayhan]

shit looks worse than realm of the mad god though

[@Vilde321]

It was great... now its just a race to pay to win for level 1000+ people.. a shame

[@saulosilva1236]

@@sparkofcuriousity thats the biggest problem, but after you got into that you just love it, thing is nowadays people will just look and say "thats not for me" without trying but i completely get it

[@FreeLooK]

I think that RIOT MMO is probably gonna be the most successful one just because their story spreads between different types of games. The story behind the Moba can affect the MMO and vice versa for every game they have. That alone has a HUGE potential to make people conected.

[@taylorcliff6609]

and its not like riot are going to be using it as a cash grab considering they have other IPs that are generating them more than enough. thats most of the problem with studios that are developing mmos; that mmo is their only project and if it fails they have nothing to generate any money. League been the most consistently played game since like 09. the LoL community doesnt give a shit about the micro transactions because its not forced on them to play the game and works completely in Riots favor. people complain about micro transactions when they feel like they don't have a choice. by giving people the choice, they increase the amount of transactions. people are buying skins because they want to and not because they have to and that's more addicting.

[@HackerArmy03]

@@taylorcliff6609 This. Riot's free to play is LITERALLY free to play. If you're a card gamer, check out LoR (Legends of Runeterra) and you'll see how you won't even need to spend a dollar to get all the cards. This is why I have high hopes in regards to their MMORPG.

[@taylorcliff6609]

@@HackerArmy03 see ive never been into LoR, but i have been a massive league fan since it came out (it got me to quit wow after a 6 year addiction) and im looking forward to their fighting game also. this is exactly where riot are well ahead of most studios, they cater to such a massive audience. you don't need to like all of their games, each game has its own community and generally those communities get a long. say what you want about leagues toxic culture, but i love that shit, everyone toxic so no one cares. its like the old CoD days where you heard the most insane shit over coms. now i sound like a dick rider for riot, but the truth is in the numbers and long term, riot has stayed winning and i hope their mmo isnt just genre defining but genre creating.

[@SawtoothGrin1986]

MMOs will never be as popular as they were. Most people can't sink time into them like they used to and nothing will catch that old wow nostalgia

[@inscription8099]

Never because not enough people have enough free time to fully appreciate an mmo, and developers can't even create good single player experiences anymore, let alone a fun open world MMO.

[@ramencakes5196]

The only MMO I seriously play is RuneScape on mobile.

[@LyubenVassilev]

Technically, if you look at Yggdrasil (the game from Overlord), it was a full on gacha with a cash shop. Ainz Ooal Gown only accepted players who had a job and contributed to society because it was expected for them to buy stuff with real money to benefit the guild.

[@xLuis89x]

yeah In the the fight against shalltear he used a bunch of cash Items to win the fight, lmao. So it is another case in which the game looks better as an anime / something to watch, instead of an actual game, since it is p2w with heavy pvp / lack of non pvp areas

[@sirottovonbismarck6776]

Also, wasn't Momonga's IRL world set in a kinda dystopian future IIRC?

[@LyubenVassilev]

@@sirottovonbismarck6776 Yeah, I would say so. We don't know much about Earth at that time. What we do know is that China no longer exists, and there are no forests with living trees left on the planet. Maybe something else too but I don't remember right now.

[@toileet]

MMOs are popular but I don't think any one particular MMO is nailing it right now. They all are lacking and its all been done before.

[@Chittysushi]

What's different about final fantasy 14 is it gives you that choice to not participate in group activities (most of the time) and hell Yoshi P and the development team are slowly but surely making it more accessible to solo players. Eventually all story dungeons will be able to run with an NPC squadron. Not sure if they will do that to other content like trials or required alliance raids (probably not the latter) but at least Square is trying to accommodate all sorts of folks' play styles.

[@haldenzguard]

I disagree. Out of the larger mmos I’ve played: eso, wow, ff14, guild wars 2. Ff14 forces the dungeons into the story so you’re required to go through them. Heck, you have to go through at least 2 full raids just to get out of ARR. in eso, you never have to touch a dungeon. Guild wars 2 takes you forever to even realize dungeons exist.

[@haldenzguard]

@@Evadann crystal tower no longer a raid??

[@raxidy3350]

Personally I think MMORPG have always been known by gamers but the average gamer can’t invest a lot of time into them. It’s not really dying it’s just that people have less time to grind or don’t want to.

[@XnarozX]

It has nothing to do with the amount of time lol, for example even fortnite league or etc these massive games people still grind then, still spends massive amounts of time on these games. Maybe you personally don’t have the time, that’s ok, many people do they just spend that time on other games because people don’t want to play shit games like what most mmos are

[@XnarozX]

@@seanwilliams7655 yeah that is true aswell

[@sunn-nie]

Just.. play final fantasy XIV. I was really not trying to leave WoW, but I gave in. Left it for FF14 this year and never looked back. Just finished shadow bringers and it’s phenomenal.

[@XnarozX]

The problem with ffxiv is that the game sucks dick

[@striker5955]

Here's my hot take. I think one of the biggest problems is that developers are designing MMORPG with zero build up. Warcraft had 3 games + expansions addons before becoming a MMORPG. This is just my opinion, but I feel like one of the biggest problems is that these companies are biting off a huge bullet before building up a story, get people invested, and want to enjoy the world with others.

[@Cian1312]

That is one reason I think the riot mmo will be a success, there is enough build up for it to be the new age of mmos, but we will have to see.

[@striker5955]

@@seanwilliams7655 Oh really? I thought Everquest had games that weren't MMORPGs. That one was a little before my time. (:

[@GiRR007]

I mean... while it's true that if VR technology did advance enough to the point where it actually felt like you were in the game then MMOs would increase in popularity, but so would literally every other game. The bigger problem is what things can be solved NOW gameplay wise to actually entice people into playing MMOs more. Alot of the reasons MMOs have fallen off is simply due to the internet advancing. Such as the aforementioned guides affecting how the game is play and alternative social networking systems outside of the game. Stuff like that would need to be replaced with something new for MMOs to be in a better state. MMO as a genre is kind of a product of its time. Their was a kind of novelty back then for what was essentially revolutionary gameplay mechanics but that novelty has worn off in modern day as those revolutionary features are common place at this point. Otherwise even if VR did advance other game genres would still just have tons more people than the mmo genre.

[@macatony7610]

Personally I think the biggest way to make mmos popular or atleast increase popularity is to make your mmo on console as well really broadens the audience. Ff14 is a good example.of this wow needs to do this and I can only imagine if ashes of creation made it to next gen consoles. Just a smarter route imo

[@Mr-R.R.]

For however much people hate on Star Citizen (a lot of it is warranted) they are one of the few (if not only at this scale) creating the tools that future MMOs will need so they can thrive on. IF they are able to pull it off, it's gonna be one of the biggest advancements in gaming.

[@miked3723]

The 2002 MMORPG Ragnarok Online should be looked to for design philosophy. It's God Item system which made best in slot items only attainable by winning weekly guild vs guild battles for the chance to get 1 of the 20-25 peices of the crafting recipe meant only a couple per year per server could be produced. Also the MVP card system which an elite boss would spawn once every couple hours and have a 0.01% drop chance. They were open world spawns where the person to do the most damage would get loot rights, not simply the best ping and reaction time. These ultra rare items meant you would never actually reach end game and for any realistic chance to play with end game items you would need to play with a dedicated guild for years.

[@saytne8622]

Imo every new Mmorpg feels the same there is no new ideas, concepts. We are in 2022 and still there is no new Mmorpg where we are the evil guys and trying to destroy the world or something like that we are always the hero/savior

[@ForeverFridayVideo]

I feel like social media killed traditional mmos. That’s why people want it to feel more arcadey in game.

[@Kitsune10060]

funny he should mention Overlord after talking about Pay2Win in MMOs cause Yggdrasil was supposed to be P2W AF if I recall right from the LNs

[@HenrikLarssonArt]

One thing with "todays" mmo's i think people miss, is the feeling of exploration, today's mmo's don't have that, neither did the old ones (but the illusion was there). So i think they have to get the feeling/illusion of real exploration back to get a successful mmo today, and to get that back will need much more work today then it has in the past - Its about creating a world, not a game.

[@themaughan3378]

I would say that FF14 & GW2 are both the outliers that both approach the MMORPG experience very differently with proven models of success. FF14 & GW2 are both super successful while providing new and original content, no nostalgia required for success. I personally am biased towards GW2 because of the formula in this game was and is revolutionary within the MMORPG industry. Every other MMO is copying different aspects of this game. The only reason why it’s not so well known is because the marketing team sucks.

[@Catrell]

Let's be real. MMO players are just waiting for full dive. 🙏

[@benwallychow]

I know this is super controversial but the only MMOs I actually go/have gone hard in (pve) were those with dps meters... There is something so rewarding about perfecting your dps and rotation. It doesn't matter how much gear you have or how big your crits are, I always judge my progress by my dps. Heading into a mythic in wow under-geared and crushing the damage charts and getting whispered "yoo, what is your build" feels so good! Even personal damage only though is still great. Long story short - As long as MMOs keep being scared of dps meters, I'm a short term player. I hope I am not alone in this!

[@maxwell4322]

MMO Rpgs will be popular again with VR. If you ever played the Game "Headmaster" a soccer Game for VR. You will know what I mean. There's a Map where you play outside and look at the stars and look at the ground and buildings in the distance. And the grass. It was well done and such an immersive feelin.. all I could think of was of the possibilities. The biggest thing holding VR back rn is Cordless VR Headset and an epic hand controls that are intuitive. Apart from the obvious investment.

[@ragnarbaron6090]

The problem with mmorpgs, or specifically raiding, is delayed gratification. You have to wait your turn to acquire that piece of loot or this thing. The current generation is use to instant gratification and thus a majority don’t appreciate it

[@CHARLESGTX]

Hey Asmond! Please upload the reaction to the new Necrit video regarding potential Raid bosses of the new Riot MMO ;)

[@roberttirpak5447]

Invest 100mil into a game during a time spam of 6-7years, make sure you are doing a good job and you will have the player base you dreamed about. Make a good game, update it frequently and the money will "come your way on its own". By word of mouth, youtube and different websites people will get to know that there is an interesting and promising game "out there" and they will flock towards it. That should be the business plan of every company, make the players / customers happy and not just look at the rate or returns while neglecting the quality of the produced game...

[@martinstephenson9801]

MMORPG's developers need to build interest in their IP's and create additional transmedia content for their world, story and character, with books, comic, animation, music, they live and die by using just the one medium, and like it or not we live in a world where an awful lot of consumers like to consume content from multiple sources, this can be done in-between expansions while the developer spend years creating new content for the world, writers/artist and musicians can fill that void, keep some fans interested in what else is happening with additional content from different mediums, all can be produced a lot cheaper and faster several times a year; for those interested in knowing more, read Houston Howard's "You're Gonna Need a Bigger Story".

[@zalimrrantcherguizov3068]

also, the thing about subscription-type MMORPGs is that not everyone can pay for them, same goes for one-time buy MMORPGs, even tho lots of people would actually want to play it and enjoy it, most of the time they can't because it's not like they can afford for a game that they might or they might not enjoy, so a system based like a riot that only makes u pay for things that won't make the game unfair like cosmetics and at that point, most ppl who actually spent money on getting in-game purchases won't quit because they already invested on the game they like, they may take a break but won't leave the game permanently, there are lots of people in LoL community that is like that, they already invested so much so they won't just suddenly quit one day.

[@ChopperFromHell]

Never again. This is all about time. Actual society is to "fast" to spend that much time on a high demanding time videogame like a mmo.

[@Ruzzky_Bly4t]

There is still a big market for it though. Sure, percentage-wise mobile games dominate everything, but the number of players that are spending hundreds/thausands of hours in a game is higher than in 2007, simply due to the growth of the gaming industry.

[@ChopperFromHell]

​@@Ruzzky_Bly4t We can talk about dopamine and all that shiet and how a mmo is less "addictive" nowadays than before, precisely because of that "urge" of the nowadays people to play something fast, with quick rewards, even if they do for 10 hours straight. Sure there will be mmo players, but I highly doubt those will be as massive and consistent like some years ago. They have to change things, people don't have all that time and patience anymore.

[@chainsov]

for me, VR or better graphics would just add a pretty layer over immersion breaking game mechanics. Like NPCs / mobs standing in one spot 24/7. Give them a night / day cycle, give them paths to follow, sensible tasks to pursue, create an illusion of them having an actual life. The aggro radius concept is also immersion breaking for me. killing a mob while another stands in place 20m away, showing zero reaction. While it would be harder to balance, a LOS / hearing based approach would do wonders for immersion imho

[@cfagrimspecter]

Mmos are popular. Its just that system requirements of newer mmo are higher and most of the gamers could not afford a descent pc to match the specs to play in a satisfying settings

[@DrunkAlKrn]

With Blizzard basically just a shell of itself, I don't think any company out there is willing to risk putting in the necessary resources to make the next WoW. We also have to factor in the fact that nowadays - everything has a cash shop, people don't like to pay subscriptions anymore - and gaming as a whole has changed. I think MMOs will always be around - I don't think there will ever be an MMO as large as WoW. Gaming has changed too much.

[@OnBrandRP]

SWTOR you feel very powerful when you hit 60 or max level. You feel powerful throughout the experience until around level 30-45 because that's when you have to start getting your armor mods setup or you're gonna have a rough experience. Though you should have earned a few hundred thousand credits through questing by then. Once you hit 50 and have the armor mods setup in your adaptive gear.. you feel unstoppable until you start the expansions, which imo is good. Makes you build your character to be a bit more versatile. Adds challenge but go to any planet 10-20 levels below you and you'll stomp everything.

[@beardedhippo8528]

Even tho I think the MMO time most of us is used to is gone. I do believe there is still potential. Imagine if a game like Genshin Impact was a true MMORPG and had a true endgame. Farming events for primo's, imagine if the domains were realy hard and real 5man content which you needed to do multiple times a day, , the world bosses needing organised groups, things like that. All to beat a multi layered abyss with different modifiers and rewards and modes for solo and multiplayer. With cities where you can interact with each other, pvp, and more. I think this would be massive succesfull. Genshin already makes milions per banner, and thats because people like the characters. If there was a true endgame, more people would be spending money for it I think. And I know there are people saying 'sounds like wow'. But its the design direction whats important. WoW was designed to be an 'epic and mystical experience'. Genshin is designed to enjoy story and have fun. Tbh I think people don't want an MMO thats 'an epic and mystical experience'. They just want action. They wanna build their characters and do fun stuff with friends. Because if they do want this experience..they just look for a single player game that delivers this better than an MMO ever could.

[@garydose129]

I think games lack social aspects and need to reduce friction when communicating. The best MMO stories ar player interactions. Contextual dialogue, like in Deeprock Galactic or Sea of Thieves, makes social interaction easy. Typing is slow and hard during combat, and VOIP is hard to moderate and some people are shy or play in a shared space.

[@Kikkia2018]

Before Legion I used to play WoW casually without doing any dungeons or raids aside from the random dungeon/raid finder - I honestly didn't know higher content existed until friends I met through the game got me into raiding and Mythic+. I started college around the beginning of BFA and ever since then I've gone back to the casual mentality. I'm one of those people that only has a few hours of free time & only does LFR. I used to be able to play WoW all day every day in middle/high school (when I wasn't in school) because I didn't do my homework and still was able to pass each class. I think MMOs are definitely more popular for kids and young adults that don't have irl priorities and are able to keep up with the expectations of (most) games in the genre. Now that all the old MMO players are adults, it's hard for us to get into these new MMOs because it's more time sinks that we don't have time for. This isn't a problem for everyone, of course, but it's definitely one of the reasons I don't play WoW anymore.

[@Marzaries]

Two things need to happen first. Innovation at the micro level (combat mechanics, immersive in-game economies etc), and a way to make the development of mmo cost efficient. So efficient that your average joe can make one.

[@skeletorrulerofeternia7141]

This is why I went back to OSRS, and hoo boy is there more to the game than I remember, it’s like a new experience, even if it’s a game I had a ton of time in.

[@daviddamasiewicz5954]

I think you need a pre existing story, maybe 1-2 Movies, (maybe a series) maybe a mobile game as a "short" version to gain money and through that build a mmorpg with a fan base

[@Slammy555]

There was a big influx of people playing video games on their PC when FB and MySpace started getting popular in the early 2000s, they were simple so anyone could play them and they were all about how much time you spent playing. This trained people into the next level of difficulty above browser games. Just my opinion.

[@Zhiroc]

I think part of the problem is that very few games that were able to maintain the subscription model in the 2010s. Some of the last that tried were SWTOR and ESO. And going F2P arguably saved those from shuttering. And so if sub is off the table, that's why games went with cash shops. I think B2P is not so easy to do too. And I think this tied into AAA MMO development dying, as those companies couldn't see the same potential payday. Of couse, games like Genshin may be showing folks that the aggressive mobile-model of monetization may work for mainstream PC games (maybe Diablo Immortal is doing so as well... though I really can't be sure how well it's doing financially).

[@Fjerid]

3:20 very unpopular, but Knight Online was the MMORPG that sucked me into this online gaming world. This was like 15 years ago for me and I still get vietnam flashbacks to that game. Good times though. Waking up in the morning before school and setting up merchant to sell my stuff online whilest being AFK. Going in parties and grind EXP or go to Ardream and PK people... man good times.

[@_Jashawuh]

Imagine a game that you play like osrs or another sandbox mmo, but your player is also a "HERO" that can be used in a league of legends/ war craft 3 game.

[@mikalmu]

as someone who has no friends to play with, MMOs was THE place to make friends even if you dont want to, but yeah, discord communities and social media in general absolutely killed that part, i can’t play 1 MMO right now and actually make friends in game, now its either playing with irl friends or join someones discord. Which really makes me sad playing solo all the time.

[@erictyler3259]

I think the original concept of "Star Wars Galaxies" had the right idea. SOE just pulled it off poorly. There we mechanics in that MMORPG that established close knit communities in the game. Mechanics like battle fatigue which was removed by being entertained by players. This entertainment also provided buffs. Player housing was also the best I've ever seen in a game. You could collect trophies around the galaxy and display them in your house. You could also create shops with NPC vendors to sell your goods. Your guild could put all put their houses together and create player cities/communities. There were some changes I would've made, like separating the crafting and entertaining skills from the combat skills, adding instanced dungeons, etc. But the base game had some great ideas.

[@xingore30]

The tech is here but if they gave you everything you wanted in a mmorpg they wouldn't make money! They would never need to make new games if they had one game they gave you everything! We know this!

[@webnplay]

Boomers are people born from 1946 to 1964, people that are 43 years old now are not called boomers, just saying as a guy that is 44 years old now 😉

[@lestachio801]

Hearing TSW world music in the background takes me back 😂 had to check if YT music was on in the background haha damn I miss that game

[@a.o.skurtt]

I also think some kind of cyberpunk next gen MMO would be pretty cool, but ofc itd have to be made well and have good story ect

[@Zankaroo]

Even though I haven't played in a very long time, I still think EVE Online is one of the best MMORPGs ever. Outside of my RL friends that played with me I never knew anybodies except for Vile Rat aka Sean Smith (R.I.P.) and that was only after he was killed in the Benghazi attack. And I was in a corp that was in an alliance that was in the coalition he was the diplomat for. Grant it he was far above my pay grade and I barely talked to people outside of my corp when I lived in null sec.

[@martijnraven1823]

Yes same here. Played on and off for 9 or so years. A true Sandbox MMORPG and where you can see true human nature virtually. The constant people trying to kill or scam you, carebears , pirates. Its too bad i dont have time for it anymore. No MMO comes near it.

[@MaleficArken]

I think the possibility of an MMO being so good that you want to dump your life on can still exist. It is just that people cannot execute the ideas they have properly. Not because of technology but because of the sheer scope and lack of understanding with their consumer base. If I had the capital and knowledge to put together the ultimate MMORPG I would. While simultaneously bringing in influential figures that dumped thousands upon thousands of hours into games that knew mechanics inside and out. At the same time polling the community before something is ever released to get an understanding of reception and functionality. Runescape already does something *a tiny bit* similar with their polling. Individuals creating these MMO's simply don't look to their intended audiences enough and just make them for the sake of making them.

[@MaleficArken]

@@cynthiahembree3957 I agree. We've seen a ton of mmo's out of the asian sphere. But that it typically where most MMO's come from because their consumer base like grind based games. Which is why the asian market is FLOODED with various types of MMO's that we've also never even had the chance to play here in the west. Execution is definitely an issue. Another issue is not listening to your consumers when they say something is grossly wrong or bad design (ergo putting unique mounts in the shop rather than have them be behind achievements in game or terrible systems that get discarded the following expansion. etc). Right now the only major MMO that i pray is all that its hyped up to be is Ashes of Creation if it fails I'll be incredibly disappointed.

[@thirsty3719]

runescape social interaction was killed with the GE, WOW social interaciton was killed with the raid finder. just my opinion.

[@MannyBrum]

I wonder if Asmon has played a TTRPG on an actual tabletop. I know he's played D&D on stream but the dynamic is so different when you play around an actual table. Tabletop D&D is like vanilla WoW in 2005 vs online D&D being like WoW in 2022. Yeah, you can do the same things, but it's way less social, and a lot of things that make you feel more connected to the game (like being able to receive an actual letter when your character finds a letter in game) are replaced by less immersive methods for convenience. Online tabletops also kill the imagination because the DM is limited to what scenes and maps they can create or find for display on the screen while at the table they can quickly draw a sketch on a piece of paper and let the players' imaginations fill it in. One of the reasons we like games less today is we know everything about them early on because of all the stuff we see online. There is no room for us to imagine what may lie ahead for us in the game. In the early days the online information was less exhaustive and limited to fewer sites, it wasn't something you'd constantly get presented to you on various news feeds and social media sites without asking for it.

[@gubzs]

They need to capture that feeling of a game being "unsolved" it's an almost impossible problem. The #1 thing that kills MMOs is a wiki page.

[@dionysius3738]

Not until they update the mmo formula, feels like most mmo just sell off setting not the world or experience cause when it comes down to it, everything’s an mmo now but “mmorpgs” think they need to copy old style mmorpgs to be one

[@Krash2o]

26:28 This robot is more expressive then some people I've seen.

[@leessoon]

I think you should take a look at Deepwoken. It's technically an mmorpg format that's done insanely well, has retained, and has obtained many new players. I sink hours into this game despite it literally being a Roblox game, and out of all the mmorpg's i've played like Lost ark, Pso2, Pso2 NGS (trash btw dont play it), GW2, Maplestory 1 and 2, Kritika Online, BDO, Elsword it has managed to retain my interest the most.

[@XxAchilles24xX]

In my opinion, the problem is that there is WAY too much content to consume anymore to capture someone's attention long term or their full attention at all honestly to give them immersion

[@GuitarJester89]

Steam is only 1 of 4 places FF14 is played. And all the original players were given the regular windows version. Not steam.

[@ecryptic9754]

im 17, and i grew up on wow. No MMO has ever felt the same. but I do want a strong MMO that has that impact

[@joaquimmanuelneves2522]

I have the answer. When? -Just wait forma Riot Games MMO. All LoL, Valorant and RoR players and MMO players will test or try it. And lot of players will stay and lot of them will leave, something like Pokemon GO release. But I'm sure that then, will start a new era. Remember my words.

[@MrFunnyCloud]

It's not simply that game knowledge has increased on the player side. The problem is that mmorpgs didn't develope alongside players. They do things differently, but not diversely. FFXIV blew up because it's just as easy/difficult as the rest, but has variety. On top of that you can experience the full game with one character.

[@cooller8888]

Star Citizen is going to change the game WHENEVER it comes out....5 years from now? 10? I don't know, but THIS is the gamechanger I'm telling you and I'm willing to bet on it

[@clericneokun]

Asmon basically nailed it on the first minute alone. MMOs initially gained their momentum back in the early 2000s because of the goldilocks zone between accessibility and novelty that internet-based multiplayer gaming existed in during those days. We don't have that anymore. Everything is so commonplace now that we just take it all for granted. That's why it's not really that farfetched when someone brings up Sword Art Online as the next level in MMO design. We truly need a tech innovation that drastic for MMOs (as a genre) to actually feel special again.

[@2xvexes]

I think Mmorpg’s have always been popular, it just depends on whether or not you choose to acknowledge it.

[@Psiilocybe]

.

[@MaskofAgamemnon]

But they've lost relative popularity. They used to be the biggest thing around but haven't for a long time now.

[@2xvexes]

@@MaskofAgamemnon Yeah, your right about that. That’s probably why when people play MMORPG’s, they’d choose Genshin over something like World of Warcraft.

[@jeffsanders5444]

@@deminisis ?? every single xpac for wow has several million active subs.

[@Alessia_Bridge]

The issue with mmos is there's been like 5-10 that have been worth the time investment and were wonderful. Wow, eso, tera, etc were all so fucking good but lost all innovation a couple years after creation because of devs throwing player opinion to the wind

[@HalalJoker]

The reason why some people don't play MMORPG and instead switched to PVP is because of time. With PVP I can just jump in a game 1 hour per day and be okay. With MMORPG you need 5hours+ everyday to just be average, which is too much time consuming.

[@wyattderp9719]

MMOs before microtransactions and pay to win were the great equalizer. If you were a janitor irl with skill you could be a guild leader with people who were managers, small business owners and CEOs irl as subordinate guild members. Pay to win kind of makes sure that the best players are the people who make the most money irl who are willing to spend it and so MMOs with microtransactions are no longer a great equalizer based on skill.