When Your Client Thinks They've Outsmarted Physics

Does Adam have any tips on how to get past the "planning stage" and actually start a project? What's a good first step for a wannabe prop builder? What is a great way to start getting clientele? What is your advice for turning down a client that thinks they have outsmarted physics? In this live stream excerpt Adam answers these questions from Tested members forgottenphotographyllc, Steve Carl, alberthagi1310 and Daniel Locker, whom we thank for their questions! Join this channel to support Tested and get access to perks like asking Adam questions:
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[@lasarith2]

Is Adam going to do any cosplay 1 day builds again and the comic con in costume.

[@CaosGod]

6:36 I loved those machines, it was a small-scale experiment, but imagine the possibilities on a large scale and optimizing operation by eliminating friction in space. The only problem with those machines was friction. I imagined a hydraulic wheel driven by thermodynamics of the sun heating the containers and using dry ice in another closed compartment out of reach of the sun, exposed to coldspace spinning and colliding with each other to create electricity, (if you don't know something so basic happening all the time in the storms, ice can create electricity only by friction)

[@CaosGod]

The laws of physics have been unchanged for more than 100 years, they were written by humans but they do not agree with what happened in the real world mainly because the perception of humans is limited, if we want to advance we must see the world with non-human eyes, in a few words, rewrite the laws of physics with data collected by machines. (All people need a change in your perception, and it is difficult to change people's perception "pluto is no longer the last planet" "sarcasm" bigbang was just a theory written on a piece of paper haha ​​"not the absolute truth", but people for some strange reason call you an ignorant fool and you shows a thousand books where it says that the bigbang is 100% true haha ​​"funny" I wonder if that's how people felt, who said the earth was spherical and not flat) Do you want to know what I mean? a simple experiment to understand it. Heat water until it boils, the hotter the effect will be more visible, then place a drop, just a drop of cold mercury inside, the written laws of physics affirm that this drop of mercury will sink due to the difference in density with water, but what happens is very different, the drop of mercury turns into a sphere and bounces out of the water with an effect similar to oil jumping. This is due to the fact that the laws of physics have not been updated and do not take into consideration other factors such as the amounts of synetic energy of the electrons in constant motion of hot water and the electrons of a colder and more stable material at rest such as mercury; when both electrons collide they literally create a collision, which causes both objects in question to collide and generate energy in the form of a microexplosion that pushes the mercury out of the water. (a small scale experiment can always open your eyes to large scale phenomena that you couldn't understand, The universe and everything is based on the smallest things and ends, in something enormous, do not only see the goal and do not blind yourself only with results, observing the process is more important) Some are wondering in it point what this has to do with the video, what is this crazy guy talking about? (I'm trying to change your perception, it's difficult, right? Humans tend to convince themselves that all knowledge is true and never question it, just because they have already studied it, learned it and have a degree? They assume that being written in a book or on the internet is 100% true, they convince themselves that the truth is only one. but....... humans have never thought that there are multiple truths in this universe, or outside the universe in this existence, or different paths to reach the same goal.... so only thing you need, a change of perception and improve your understanding) You don't need to memorize 1 million documents to be smart, computers can do it, they're not smart for doing it, right? "technology is durable, but life is short" true intelligence is achieved through understanding how the universe works and your understanding of these systems. Having a great memory does not make you intelligent, it only transforms you into a simple songbird or a computer that repeats what you have memorized (current education has this big problem and has lasted many centuries in decline) to start a project, you don't need money or materials, you don't need employees, fame or wealth, start with something very small the first step, first of all, "simulate your project using a paper" just that", write your goal and list the impediments that prevent you from carrying out your project, overcome them one by one or look for alternative ways to overcome them, second, list the steps you will need to reach your goal, taking into account that some of those steps could fail, third, write down all the possible errors that will happen in your project. what is your path and have backup plans or a total backplan in case everything goes wrong caused by an external problem that is out of your control (the most important phrase "don't be too positive and don't blind yourself to believing that "everything will be okay" because what could go wrong, really will go wrong haha ​​something I really learned from the tv show "ScrapWars" lol)

[@CaosGod]

To those who read this great pamphlet up to this point, thank you. I'm sure many will hate me for my opinion, criticize me or insult me ​​for trying to change their perception, but in the end I only write one truth and honesty, there is no intention to insult you directly If anyone feels identified by this. Many people prefer beautiful lies to living in cruel reality or they look for nice flattery instead of the truth and it is strange that they feel offended by it. I always wonder. why? o,...,O

[@CaosGod]

Containers exposed to the sun filled with gas and containers exposed to the cold of space filled with ice would create a cycle without energy loss by eliminating friction and creating electricity from the constant collision of the ice. the laws of physics work differently off the planet.

[@mrsnidesmin]

I’m a coder and the outsmarting physics question reminded me of a client I had in my early career that wanted me to make some software that implemented their own design for an algorithm/strategy for baccarat (the sequential coin toss betting game). They were convinced there was some dependency between coin tosses that would lead to profitability and tried repeatedly to convince me using their own weird mathematical theory. I took the approach Adam suggests and agreed to help build it but made sure they knew i did not believe it would work. Interestingly in this case I also had to have the program simulate hundreds of runs with detailed outputs to prove that it was accurately following their algorithm design. I made sure I invoiced hourly for the work on the implementation and testing and made no promises relating to the outcome they were hoping for. Eventually they gave up but I got paid for what I did.

[@summonsays2610]

As a fellow software developer, my breaking physics moment was when they wanted 5 million piece of data to load instantly, with custom styling (so processing each one), in a website. And it was a requirement it had to all be loaded in the browser in one go, no pagination or lazy loading. (They originally wanted to do work in places without internet connections). Initial loading time was 10 minutes. I took a page out of old image processing books and got it down to 30 seconds. To this day I regard that as my biggest success. They scrapped it like 6 months after deployment because it was "too slow".

[@SeamusCameron]

Wait, if I understand correctly they'd convinced themselves that the gambler's fallacy was what, a ruse? Wild. I'm glad you got paid though!

[@aaronrachiele5521]

​@@summonsays2610 lmao, sounds like a nightmare. I hope you were well compensated.

[@summonsays2610]

@@aaronrachiele5521 well, I am/was salaried so it didn't impact my income at all. Just little sad no one outside of the dev team could appreciate what we accomplished.

[@wybren]

​@@SeamusCamerongamblers fallacy is you invest money into a thing, it fails and you keep investing hoping to get your money back. This case sounds more like the client not understanding basic bayesian math.

[@CrucibleMediaLabs]

My favorite scam-artist-adjacent story like the flying car “shop” is when Accuracy International first pitched their sniper rifle to the British military. Testing and review went well, and so the MoD sent some people down to check out their manufacturing facilities to ensure they could meet demand. AI showed them around, and took them out to lunch, during which (apparently) the inspectors joked that they just wanted to make sure AI wasn’t “just a couple of guys in a shed”. Except, that’s exactly what they were. The prototypes that had been tested were built essentially in the guy’s garage. When they got wind of the upcoming inspection, they rented a big industrial unit and basically set-dressed it with machinery and gun parts and all the rest of it, and basically herded the MoD staff through as quickly as possible so they wouldn’t look to closely at it. And the contract they got for their first rifle enabled them to actually build and staff a legitimate shop to produce the rifles.

[@ChristopherHillman]

ThAT'S a little bit like the two guys making the Guns for StarWars. (if i'm remembering the correct people) ...When the higher-ups were about to come arounD they borrowed the sculptors from NexT DooR to come and just 'make the place look busy'. ...After the tour they all went back to their own shop except the two guys doing all the work :)

[@darrylkoski529]

Fake it until you make it.

[@UtahDelaCruz]

@@darrylkoski529 You beat me to it.

[@ColonelSandersLite]

The british have a fairly long track record of 'a few guys in a shed' making substantial contributions to their military efforts. There's a good reason it was already a meme for those guys before their government went to go look at accuracy international. Sadly for them though, that kind of innovation is totally illegal over there now.

[@alexjeffrey3981]

​@@ColonelSandersLiteat the military level, sure, it's highly regulated. But we still have a strong tradition of garden shed engineering.

[@velinion1]

Had a comp sci professor who used to work in industry. His boss tasked him with optimizing an algorithm, with strict goals for performance. After struggling for a while, he suspected it might be NP-complete, and therefore getting it to the stated goals would be the biggest breakthrough in mathematics for a thousand years (and likely impossible). So he wrote out a mathematical proof. It was indeed an NP complete problem, and the goals were (almost certainly) impossible. He brought the proof and explanation to his boss. The boss said he wanted "Results, not excuses". And that was the point he decided to quit.

[@benjaminmiddaugh2729]

If the boss can't understand that a formal proof showing what he wants involves solving one of the hardest mathematical problems we know of is a result (just not a result he wants), that boss shouldn't be your boss (I mean, that boss shouldn't be anyone else's boss either, but you only have control over who you decide to work for).

[@shazmosushi]

the boss may have been willing to accept an algorithm that only provides an answer that's an approximation, something that can be solvable with a much faster algorithm.

[@jeremykothe2847]

@@shazmosushi Yeah we do map routing. It's NP complete. We still do it. In a certain number of cases we get terrible results, but 90% of the time it does fine. Business isn't about mathematical perfection, it is indeed about results.

[@benjaminmiddaugh2729]

@@shazmosushi I'd be more inclined to agree if the description of the conversation involved the boss asking useful questions after receiving the proof. If there was a conversation involving realistic expectations of what could be done to get most of the way there, I'd absolutely be in agreement. But a response of "results, not excuses" seems much more in line with a boss that's unwilling to admit that sometimes what you want has limitations imposed by factors such as reality and you can only reasonably approximate what your original goals were.

[@TheRealMarauder]

​@@jeremykothe2847 in many cases, you can provably be within a certain percent of optimal, with a polynomial time algorithm, and with some trials you can do better probabilistically. You canˋt do the best but you can get close, and thatˋs genuinely good enough.

[@Jimorian]

That "special" machine project is also a time to charge "F Off" rates. Rates that you think the client will turn down, but which are high enough if they do accept, to make it worth your while for the crap you're about to go through.

[@Hebdomad7]

That means adding two zeros the back of your normal pricing... If it worked for Bender it can work for you.

[@joefrayling9263]

I'm an electrician and used to have my own business, the amount of times over the years I've priced myself out of a job because I just didn't want to do it but couldn't turn it down because it looks bad for the business is mental. It's definitely a valuable tool and when they do go for it and some people will go for it then you can make some good money off it.

[@ColonelSandersLite]

@@joefrayling9263 There's a bad flipside to this sort of logic though. Suppose you deliberately overprice the work to make them go away but they accept anyways. Might mean that they're planning to stiff you. Or maybe it's not *totally* malicious. Maybe they're thinking "this is gonna make me a billionaire and I can pay them whatever they want once I'm rich." Then again, there always has been people with more money than sense floating around. Hard to tell which is which though.

[@loganricherson]

@@ColonelSandersLite that's why a contract is important, and why lawyers pay for themselves

[@valkyrie-randgris]

​@@ColonelSandersLite It'll also probably piss them off more when their bad plan inevitably fails through. Not that they probably needed a reason to get angry at someone else/shift the blame to you, but I'd worry about them having another bullet to use to bitch at you. Like Adam said, "you're still going to have to deal with a pissed off client". Which frankly would be my biggest headache/worry dealing with people like that, who's complaints might even follow you around and tarnish your rep not because YOU did anything wrong, but because they've got money and a voice they can use to throw their weight around and blame whoever was working with them rather then themselves. Ugh. Bad clients are such a nightmare.

[@AdamNDJ]

My favorite saying is "The best place to start, is anywhere". Meaning, of course, to just start the thing. Don't spend so much time thinking about where or when, and just do it.

[@aikumaDK]

"The best time to start was yesterday. The second best time is now"

[@parisgreen4600]

Oh, that's good, I need to apply it.

[@AdamNDJ]

@@aikumaDK That's a good one too. I like it.

[@arthurmoore9488]

@@parisgreen4600 It's something I try to do as much as possible. Especially when I don't know where to start on a larger task.

[@12fuxu2]

When you spend all your time planning instead of "doing" you can steer yourself away from surprising little "happy accidents" and chance discoveries.

[@lotharbeck71]

Regarding client expectations and physics- I was a freelance shoe shiner for many years, most recently at a barbershop. A barbershop client kept turning down my services until one day he brought in a pair of black cowboy boots. “You’re only going to have to do these ONCE because I’m going to spray these down with NevrWet when I get home!” I explained that the spray will stick to nothing but the polish, which isn’t permanent by any means… Nope, he had outsmarted physics, and his idea was going to work! It did not.

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

Did he admit it to you later, that it went as you said? Which *_if_* he did, I imagine no apology was attached, since he was likely too unhappy at being incorrect lol _(although, one could argue that the admittance is a bit of an apology in itself; at least we who are right often take it that way 😏)_

[@lotharbeck71]

The next time I saw him, he mentioned that it didn’t work, but just kind of downplayed it. He also never got the boots polished ever again, either.

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

@@lotharbeck71 Well, hey... I gotta give props to him for actually admitting it, downplayed or not!

[@DanielSultana]

​@@lotharbeck71so he was right about *you* having to do it only once

[@lotharbeck71]

You have a point 😂

[@johnmurcott1273]

"If it works and im totally wrong about physics, more power to you, thats great. But i dont think im wrong." LOL Adam

[@nichan008]

more power to you 😉

[@imdonkeykonga]

once he said, "i reject your reality and substitute my own!" it kinda sound like that haha

[@boombalabo]

'more power to you' what an understatement. UNLIMITED POWER!

[@mistabone3899]

@@imdonkeykonga Feynman.

[@TD_YT066]

" I don't know that this will work and as far as I'm concerned this is an Art project"

[@devilslamp7306]

As a physics/engineering professor, I've had local hobbyists and machinists ask my thoughts on their "free energy" machines. I charge $75/hr for consultation and have found that they never accept my answer. One guy showed me his math, and it was all correct except he didn't understand which side of a triangle is the hypotenuse, so his cosine/sine and thus x- and y-component forces were wrong. I absolutely could _NOT_ convince him what a hypotenuse is. He was convinced it was going to work and he was going to be the next billionaire. I would not take any machining work from someone like that. Their machine isn't going to work, and they're going to blame your parts.

[@DrB1900]

You should charge them $75/hr plus 1 double-A battery. That way you've created free energy :)

[@christopherreed4723]

I'm sorry...the line from Tom Lehrer's "Lobachevsky" is now firmly stuck in my mind: "...with Brigitte Bardot playing part of HYPOTENUSE!"

[@TheNewton]

ftfy: "I charge $75/hr BASE for consultation" hazard clients get the hazard rates , higher deposit minimums and sign more contracts.

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

Yep. This has also been my experience, though my clients are a bit more clever than yours.

[@ShadowDragon8685]

​@DrB1900 Adam Savage's own words, paraphrased, "it's free _to me_ energy."

[@stevenaudet]

Not only physical expectations... My gf works in VFX and a client thought she was being difficult for arguing that making a sunrise (not sunset) over the pacific ocean in a movie set in L.A made no sense.

[@ssl3546]

The movie industry has depicted ridiculous things like icebergs sinking (e.g. GI Joe movie), so which side of a country LA is on hardly matters. Would you be upset watching a movie where an ocean sunset was visible from Tokyo?

[@TheJacklikesvideos]

@@ssl3546 no, because Tokyo has some western shoreline.

[@RK-1956]

All ya got to do is to film a sunset and by running the film backwards you've got a sunrise.

[@benjaminmiddaugh2729]

@@ssl3546 My uncle stopped reading John Grisham after the first of said author's books he chose to read had a route through an area my uncle had lived in - and it made no sense (something about going through a mid-point town many, many miles out of the way). My history department chair stopped watching the movie The Patriot during the opening scenes because she's an agricultural historian and they were using shots of tobacco fields when the movie was set in the Carolinas (tobacco was not a successful crop in the Carolinas and was more of a Virginia thing; the Carolinas had rice and indigo). I'd probably still consume the media unless it was particularly egregious, but I'd definitely make it a mark against said media in terms of my evaluation. If you're going to make a thing and present parts of that thing with the expectation that it'll be taken as realistic, go to the effort of making that part not egregiously wrong. I don't expect total factual fidelity, but I do expect enough respect for the material that someone knowledgeable could say, "that might not have been completely correct but I understand why they did it the way they did."

[@Vastin]

Go watch 'The Mummy' some time and watch how light behaves in the sunrise race scene. That one is a bit mind-boggling. :D

[@petermgruhn]

I think I'd still run. Well you didn't make the bearings frictionless... Well you didn't use the massless rods... Well your lack of faith... Well you sabotage (listen, all y'all) it... If they think they can break the laws of fizziks... ...they don't think much of your contract either. These people tend to be nice people. And earnest. And you want to help them. And they want to tweak the contract/deliverables/design after it has been signed, and work has started, and substantially complete has been reached, and delivery has delivered. And you'll want to help them, because they're nice, and earnest and you'll bend the rules and you'll break the contract and you'll still not get paid because it doesn't work. And gee, thanks for your collaboration and input on my project but I'm afraid it just didn't work out. "Excuse me, um.." "What?" At least add the annoying client 100% surcharge up front. It will not have been enough. I think I'd still run.

[@petermgruhn]

A shorter way to put it might be : The client is clearly an idiot. Are you prepared to work for an idiot?

[@garagemonkeysan]

Agree. I've learned to stay away from people that make no sense. Life is short, your time is limited, spend it on things that will help, not hurt.

[@gerald5344]

Exactly -- a client like this will always convince themselves it's your fault, not theirs. I'm a lawyer and the one thing that's 100% better than trying to draft contract terms specifically to deal with a problematic person is to not sign a contract with that person in the first place.

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

I'm admittedly no expert, but I suspect you'd be safe, in a court of law, as long as you stated in the agreement: _"I guarantee my work to be to the exact specifications and to be free of flaws. This is all I ask being contracted to do and payment will be provided, regardless. If the assembled device does not function as expected, that is not on me, as my work will be performed to said specifications delivered to me; I am a machinist, not an engineer, nor a physicist."_ ANY claim to sabotage can easily be proven incorrect by any other competent machinist who can look over the specs and inspect the parts. _(mind you, said machinist will need to have no past involvement with either of you, to remain impartial)_

[@ThumpertTheFascistCottontail]

@@DUKE_of_RAMBLE that might/might not stand up in a court of law, but is it worth it? if a situation like this ends up in court, it's going cost far more money, time and attention than it's worth, even if you win. better to find a more reasonable client to work with.

[@Picoreefo]

“Wait, I have a point of view that surprises me!” I truly wish everyone on earth could demonstrate such effortless metacognition. Thanks for showing people how its done

[@mailleweaver]

The trouble with someone who wants you to build parts for a free energy machine is that they can't be reasoned with. Even if you do everything right up front to set expectations and make it clear that you're making things exactly according to the order, when it doesn't work it's going to be your fault and grounds, in their mind, to not pay you. Then they will be forever spreading false negativity about you, your skills, and your professionalism. Sometimes relieving a fool of their money at their own request isn't worth the cost.

[@harryganz1]

Using the phrase "outsmarted physics" I think is very appropriate here because, from my experience, people who genuinely attempt to build things like "free energy" machines have a personality type that they are much smarter than other people and think that they actually found some loophole that others missed. It is even worse if they are actually intelligent. I had a thesis advisor who was like this. He was incredibly intelligent, to the point that it took a very long time to realize that many of the things he said were just utter B.S. Working with him is a major part of why I ended up dropping out of my Phd.

[@jakester455]

I love the uncreative geniuses with engineering degrees. They cling to the first two laws of thermodynamics without regard to incredible leaps forward in technology and also discovery. I allow for the possibility that it's only a matter of time until a generator can run its own motor, and there is much more to be discovered beyond that. Go ahead and quote the laws again. LOL

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

@@jakester455 I actually get paid to build or verify these machines, but it gets tiring when someone insists that their machine works after I've instrumented it and found it doesn't work. Sometimes I don't even have to get that far and it flat out just doesn't run. There's a huge difference between working for someone who can accept that their idea might not work and someone who can't because their entire identity and self-worth is riding on it. There's always an excuse, usually involving mental gymnastics, as to why it's not doing what it's supposed to be doing. It's difficult to keep an open mind when someone does the same thing repeatedly with the same concept.

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

@@jakester455It's easy to say that you allow for the possibility, but have you actually had a chance to put that to the test? I get paid to build or verify and there's a huge difference between working for someone who can accept that their concept might not work versus someone who cannot because their very identity and self-worth is riding on it. There's always an excuse and mental gymnastics as to why the machine isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing, or sometimes even choosing to ignore suggestions that would accommodate instrumentation. When you do that, the only way to verify the machine is in convoluted and imprecise ways. I was hoping to see strange new things at first but it's difficult to keep an open mind for years on end when you see someone doing that repeatedly. You get to experience how people can convince themselves to see whatever it is they want to see regardless of what it is that is in front of them.

[@seigeengine]

This is the thing. If a normal person thinks they found a loophole in something like this that everyone else missed, their first thought would be "I must be wrong."

[@Gulyus]

@@jakester455 We "cling" to the laws because they work. That is why they call them "laws". The day someone manages to violate one / both of them, all of us "uncreative geniuses" will be proud for them because infinite energy is possible (and also likely the end of humanity when that energy is used to blow us up but whatever.) The truth is, you can say it is only a matter of time, but the truth is, that amount of time will not be counted in years, or generations, but millennia. Our current understanding of physics LITERALLY prevents it from happening. We can't change physics because it is not working out for us....

[@werdwerdus]

i really appreciate the thinking pauses being left in the video. it could easily be edited out but it adds to the presentation so well

[@StrengthOfADragon13]

I love the "I will gladly get paid to help you test this out" answer. It might be a very productive failure for an inquisitive mind. Dismissing a design as impossible doesn't help them at all, but if they really believe in their design enough to pay you to help make it a "reality" letting them (with fair warning and compensation) explore it is delightful

[@Trainfan1055Janathan]

As a bus driver, I've definitely had to deal with passenger that think they've outsmarted physics. Yesterday, a guy said to me, "You need to work on your braking. Every time you brake, I lean forward." I'd love to know what he thinks is supposed to happen when the brakes are applied.😂

[@ericajackson6662]

Or how one could create the perfect circumstances for smooth stop/braking every time. Unless you got a miracle up your sleeve buddy, it ain't happening.

[@Hebdomad7]

Limo drivers are often taught smooth breaking techniques that require the driver to be able to stop in traffic without spilling a wine glass on a table in the back. How you'd do this with a bus and maintain a schedule I don't know. But having been on a few buses. There's certainly a difference in ride quality between those who feel like your riding a paint mixer and those whom are smooth as silk. Its not the G forces you pull. It's how gradually you pull them. You can pull 1.5G in a jet taking off and hardly notice it because of how gradual it is. You get bashed with 0.5G stabbing the breaks with your foot every minute and it's quite uncomfortable.

[@matthewhafner962]

"The seats have seat belts for a reason"

[@bestaround3323]

​@@matthewhafner962except school busses, those have metal bars at about teeth level

[@nbartlett6538]

"Every time you brake, I lean forward" What a jerk!

[@perrybrown4985]

I am an electrical engineer and occasionally work with an industrial design company. I was discussing a new client with them and said "we need to really manage the costs on this project because the client doesn't have much money". They said "no, we absolutly shouldn't discount on this project - we need to set their expectations and if they can't afford us at this point in their project, they will definitely not have enough cash to get the product to market. If our costs stop them before this first gate, we are doing them a huge favor". Brutal but true.

[@Salgood]

One thing's for sure along with making sure your contract doesn't stipulate you have to make this machine work, you should also get paid up front! Don't be stuck trying to get them to pay you when they're disappointed and in denial about their caca mania ideas, and blaming you for the failure.

[@ShadowDragon8685]

Figure out what the job is worth to you, add on your aggrevation factor, then double it. Demand half (of double) up front. Then if they renege on the other half, sell the debt to a collections agency!

[@Salgood]

@@ShadowDragon8685 for a perpetual motion machine? Full up front.

[@ShadowDragon8685]

@@Salgood no, you're asking for that anyway; that's the point of doubling your requirement and asking for half of that. _You're only expecting to get that half._ But if you've doubled it, and you get half of double, you get what you expect; meanwhile, you don't scare them off or get into a haggle over demanding 100% up front.

[@Salgood]

@@ShadowDragon8685 see my previous comment.

[@tkreitler]

I've had many clients who have asked for technology solution that I was certain that it would not work. I have gone both routes of doing the project with a disclaimer that I don't think it will work, and refusing the project from the start. It has always been better to refuse the project. If you do the project and it doesn't work, the client will almost certainly not accept that they were wrong and will pressure you to do and endless series of tweaks to "make it work".

[@tychoMX]

Love the one about limiting your liability when engaging people with "ambitious" designs. I've done something very close to what is mentioned by Adam - "I don't think that's going to work but I'm not an expert in the manner. I'm happy to contribute and produce XXX to the spec required, at my normal rate". Fortunately my contribution was one of the early parts - nothing physics bending, just part of a longshot business idea that was pitched to my boss. We got paid, and the thing never took off. I am glad some people are ambitious and visionary to take those risks and willing to foot the bill. But that's not my risk - we didn't take any equity for that one, just a normal paid contract.

[@harryspeakup8452]

First answer is an absolute gem and I wholeheartedly agree. This is how I get moving on the sets and props I use for micro-budget filming, as well as a high proportion of ideas for household and hobby builds. Foamcore, cardboard and hot-glue are my everyday playground, to which I would add: wire coat hangers, table-tennis balls, and bamboo skewers

[@PamdaDev]

6:11 wait, i have a point of view that surprises me. Life long advice, people. If you ever find a human being that honestly says that, chain yourself to them and never let go Just being around them will make you a better human

[@user-zu1oi4wr4s]

This is SO true. The ability to recognize when one’s opinion-or even frame of reference-may(let’s be nice here) need updating is a vital basis for true intelligence. I can’t learn and grow without questioning preconceptions.

[@Moose92411]

Self-awareness in the people around you is a boon not to be easily discarded.

[@daveh7720]

Adam might be surprised that he has that point of view, but I'm not. He's already expressed it in a different context. This answer reminds me of the story he told a few weeks ago about Jamie H. and the black fence netting. (During the Archimedes Death Ray experiment.) Adam realized he didn't have to be the one to correct Jamie; the world would do it. Adam expressed his reservations, then let Jamie, um, carry on and find out.

[@user-zu1oi4wr4s]

@@daveh7720 I enjoyed that realization as well. There are times, however, when the stakes are too high to allow the lesson to go forward. Like wiring a large (we had to use a gantry!) 3-phase motor wrong: that cost iirc $5k. Or clamping off the rear circuit of a master cylinder to get a rescued car home that had rusted-out rear brake lines. I was young, dumb-and broke. At least I waited for a day when the roads were dry. I still kick myself for that one: I was a danger to the public going down that mountain even at 25mph. That’s why there are tow trucks 😐

[@alexjeffrey3981]

Absolutely, my relationship with one of my best friends is centered around us both having relatively high self awareness (not trying to brag but to agree with your point that it's a source of great mutual improvement). We often check in on each others' evolving understanding of our niche interests, and often give each other really pointed advice. It's good fun!

[@jacobbotden5641]

I'm on the admin team for a makerspace in Toronto and generally at least once a year we get someone reaching out to us for help building their free energy machine. Many times the individual has already found someone to try and build it and the entire reason it doesn't work is only because that builder didn't know how to make it as they told it to us so I really think you want to stay away much as possible.

[@tychoMX]

yikes. Just get paid for individual parts, mate :)

[@classifiedveteran9879]

Some people just don't get it. Energy and mass are two sides of the same coin. Saying _"free energy"_ sounds perfectly reasonable, but saying _"free mass,"_ sounds crazy. Edit: typo. 🥴

[@myself248]

Makerspace in Detroit here, and it's been a few years since our last one, but yeah. I had a particularly memorable one where he was explaining his idea to another member, and while I listened in, I sussed out where his mental gap was. So I whisked him into the electronics lab, grabbed a motor and gearbox, and hooked them up to a power supply. Put some drag on the output shaft, asked him to read me the display on the PSU showing it needed more power to work against the load. Yup, yup, so far so good. Then I connected the motor to a meter, and had him spin the gearbox shaft by hand, and the harder he worked, the more power the meter showed. Yup, yup, exactly. Of course. He's grinning at this point. Then I grabbed a second motor, and connected them together electrically. Spin the gearbox shaft of the first, it makes power, which powers the second motor, and it spins! IT SPINS! At this point he's, like, giddy with excitement because in the span of two minutes, I've demonstrated major parts of his idea. Then I let my finger drag on the shaft of the second motor, and asked him to keep spinning the first. With even the tiniest bit of mechanical load, it got SIGNIFICANTLY harder to turn. That was his disconnect. He had somehow missed the idea that more mechanical output would require more electrical input. It was sorta there in the first demo, but come full-circle and connected to the whole thing, it suddenly clicked into place. And I got to watch the face of a 50-year old man, who thirty seconds earlier had been convinced that he knew something nobody else knew, that he was gonna make it, that he had a ticket OUT of his station in life, that this idea which he had been sitting on for DECADES was finally going to become real, become the face of a 50-year old man whose dream he'd harbored for most of his life, had just been shattered.

[@peterclyne2480]

A client who wishes to build a free-energy machine is destined to be an unhappy client and you (who wrote to Adam) are destined to have that unhappy client (who will make you unhappy). Unless you have no other work and need to feed starving children, ask him to look elsewhere and spend your time, and be paid by, other clients whom you will make happy (and you will be happy, too).

[@dmitripogosian5084]

On the other hand, from customer perspective, I would have appreciated somebody would just fabricate things for me as requested, without giving me lectures. But I think situation Adam finds himself is somewhat different - people probably do approach specifically him and not a local shop because they are hoping for advice and insight, not just some metal work according to specs.

[@anonymes2884]

@@dmitripogosian5084 To me it's not really about them being wrong (and us lecturing them about that), it's about them being the type of wrong that never accepts it. That's not the kind of client I think is worth getting involved with because it'll _always_ be your fault.

[@tombier9170]

Yes, the client will never be happy and it will always be your fault. Decline politely; if he persists start talking about Men in Black and their flashy thingies and how you can't afford any more memory holes!

[@brucemiller1696]

Eliminate gravity and friction and then it will work.

[@dmitripogosian5084]

@@brucemiller1696 Gravity is not a problem, it is a conservative force and conserves mechanical energy. But you surely need to eliminate making your machine do any useful work. However, if your energy need from such machine it small, it can last for looong time. Take moon -Earth system as such a machine, and use tides to supply energy. One can say, for all practical reasons almost perpetual source.

[@roryoutdoors5431]

“Charlatans I’ve Met” great book title!

[@gfdia35]

Lol indeed

[@waynerussell6401]

'"BASTARDS I HAVE MET" Barry Crump Best selling author (A New Zealand classic)

[@joermnyc]

You just have to put on your best Scottish accent: “I canna break the laws of physics!”

[@AxGryndr]

When thinking about human computer interaction and software design, prototypes are built at the lowest fidelity first. I was taught that this lowest fidelity could be a drawing on a napkin. What I have come to learn is starting at this low fidelity engages our other senses in the design process. Seeing something is different than thinking about something. Building with cardboard has the same effect.

[@calebbridges4748]

This comment feels like it's gonna be useful to me in my life. Thanks for sharing this.

[@andrewstambaugh240]

Indeed, the mind can bend straight lines so things don't interfere and can think of gears driving, while ignoring interference that would cut the gear off/collide.

[@yozlet]

Deliberately lo-fi UI design toolkits like Balsamiq are great for this. I sometimes get stuck in the bad habit of endlessly tweaking the design on something instead of calling it done and moving onto the next step, but with a lo-fi toolkit there's very little opportunity to do that.

[@yootoob7048]

I believe I know who Adam referenced about the flying car. I followed the progress of that man and company for many years (even spoke to him in 2002). Then small hobby drones came onto the market while that flying car remained grounded. And to this day that flying car has flown only a couple of times and only for a few minutes while tethered to the ground.

[@jeffeppenbach]

Oh, I had the pictures in my head immediately. I knew exactly the "flying car" Adam was talking about, before he explained about it. Yeah, people are making quadcopter flying cars in their garages, and demonstrably using them, and this one still hasn't done anything. We have people doing goblin gliders through NYC. We have actual working flying suits (which Adam has demonstrated). And that one flying car still doesn't work.

[@1FatLittleMonkey]

@@jeffeppenbach But but but "insurance prevents them from flying off tether!"

[@waynerussell6401]

"The new Tesla Roadster can fly" Musk on X 2:09 AM · Jun 16, 2024 (The old Roadster is still flying - made its first close approach to Mars on Oct. 7, 2020).

[@svennoren9047]

@@waynerussell6401 Anything can fly. Briefly. If you toss it hard enough.

[@IronTiger]

@@jeffeppenbach He thought rotary engines were the ticket, but now he's waiting for fractal engines to become ubiquitous so his flying car can take off.

[@bobbuethe1477]

02:45 This works. I'm in IT, but many years ago, one of the VPs at the company I worked for found out that my hobby is cartooning. From then on, when things were slow in the off-season, he pulled me aside to do whiteboard illustrations for his annual company pep talks.

[@michielstikkel]

I was working for the marketing department. But we have a workshop where they make prototype projects (industrial automation). 3 months later I started doing small projects with the engineering team. A year later I transfered to the enginering team full time and work in CNC Milling and Turning for prototypes. Awesome Job

[@theianmce]

I've been asked to design a perpetual motion machine no less than 3 times in my professional career as a product designer and mechanical engineer

[@seigeengine]

"I can make a perpetual motion machine, no problem! Do you want batteries or a plug?"

[@1toots]

At my Grandpa's electronic supply shop, (operated from 1958-2016), every once and a while we'd get someone who "wanted to build a free energy machine"... "Time Machine on line two" we'd say if someone called, but if someone came into the shop with their "Schematic diagram". We would look at it, and promptly point out all of the potential fire hazards. And refuse to sell them parts if they were electronically clueless. We would recommend they hire an actual electrical engineer to look their project over and/or build and test it for them, because it Is a lot cheaper than replacing their home/shop when it burns down. We'd get wide-eyed reactions when we tell them that you can start a fire with a penlight AA battery... occasionally we'd demonstrate it to the non-believers.

[@MrNicoJac]

Wait, how does an AA battery start a fire? I hope they didn't put in next to steel wool in their designs, right?? 😂

[@pretzelbomb6105]

@@MrNicoJac”But the case gets all corroded! If you just take the battery innards out, they make power forever!” “Yes, it can, don’t do that, and no, they won’t.”

[@MrNicoJac]

@@pretzelbomb6105 Was that comment supposed to make sense? 😆

[@wolfyblackknight8321]

@@MrNicoJac i assuming that's a semi rhetorical question or sarcasm but I've been sleep deprived enough to not fully grasp something rammer wise despite English being my first language so my attempt at over translating it. customer: ”But the case gets all corroded! If you just take the battery innards out, they make power forever!” store owner: firstly yes battery cases can get corroded, secondly, no don't take the innards out its a horrible idea, and thirdly no taking the innards out won't make infinite power because its still going to discharge without recharging" not trying to be rude just being overly literal minded

[@MrNicoJac]

@@wolfyblackknight8321 I've been sleep deprived too, so overly literal is highly appreciated 😅🙈 I think I got thrown by the second line of the customer. Like, the case getting corroded has nothing to do with the innards (although it suggests a leak, no?) and _certainly_ does not lead to limitlesssss powerrrrr if removed 😅 That was just a total noncompute to my brain, like if someone told me the sky is usually purple and that's why pigs can fly, or something 🙄 Like, if a customer said that to me, I'd appear to be the stupid one, since I'd just be blinking for 10 solid seconds trying to figure out how this person survived life until now 🤡😆 Anyhow, thanks for the explanation :)

[@nicholastrawinski]

I instantly knew the flying car comment had to be about the Moller m200 / m400 skycar. Googled it to find pics of the shop. The shop looks like its the photocopier room from a 1980's office building that someone parked their flying car concept in.

[@LunarRed]

I grew up seeing Discovery Channel pieces and Popular Science articles on the Moller “skycar” since I was 8. The first six times I saw it mentioned I was so sure he was around the corner, but then I started having doubts. When I got into my early 20s and would see it every once in a while, I just started rolling my eyes. The last time I saw piece about it in my 30s, I finally got that it was a total scam. (I’m 48 now btw. Lol)

[@notfeedynotlazy]

@@LunarRed can confirm, adding quite a few years yo your numbers 9_9

[@SkyhawkSteve]

That was my thought too. I see that the wiki page starts out by noting the extended development period: "The Moller Skycar is a flying car with VTOL (vertical take-off and landing) capability which has been under development by Paul Moller for over fifty years.[1][2] As of 2023, the M400 has not achieved free flight. " I'm sure that they just need a few more dollars for R&D before they finish up. 😄

[@jbuck5282]

I got to tour the Moller facility back in the 90s. A relative was working there a a receptionist. I got to sit in the m400. Looked better on the outside than inside. I'd love to see a KZbinr make that thing work!

[@SkyhawkSteve]

@@jbuck5282 quote:"I'd love to see a KZbinr make that thing work!" That may run into the problem of defying physics. Back in the 80's, I have vague memories of reading an article that discussed the basic problems of hovering. It looked at the area swept by a helicopter's rotor relative to the area of the Skycar's fans. My recollection is that the Skycar had much higher disc loading per unit of area, and the conclusion was that there was no way that it could work. Or maybe the intrinsic problem was power? Or just not enough money to hire proper engineers and fund R&D for many years? KZbinr "Aging Wheels" just released a video about a group developing a combination gyrocopter/car, so there's still folks trying to solve the problem of a flying car. It certainly seems like it's not a simple matter.

[@ScornedSloth]

I have had a similar struggle with getting started on projects, and I have found it useful to create "micro-goals" that require the least amount of effort. For example, your micro-goal may be that you are going to make at least one cut today. The key is, it has to be such a simple goal that you will feel silly not accomplishing it. Of course, once I'm over the hump of starting, I will usually accomplish a lot more than my "micro-goal." "And now that you don't have to be perfect, you can be good." ~John Steinbeck

[@PanthereaLeonis]

Sounds like me doing laundry with ADHD. "Sure, all the laundry is a lot, but I sure can fold *one* shirt!" Usually I end up folding at least half the laundry once I just get started. I find that overwhelmed feeling that stops me from starting something is very rude! It doesn't matter if I have to do the other half tomorrow, that's better than doing all of it tomorrow! Rude mind!

[@everythingisterrible8862]

@@PanthereaLeonis Tell me about it. The brain cares about the inputs jammed into it. You know how media outlets have people's brains imprisoned by simply using key jangling? It's insidious. If they'd only take a few days off, they would instantly stop caring. Internet chatter is demonic, too. The feeling of being rewarded with social interaction, with little to no social interaction. It always horrifies me how much I don't want to start writing a chapter. But by the second or third sentence, the engine is primed and the chapter and an hour passes in ten subjective minutes. The brain is the enemy.

[@falconwind00]

For people who are failure adverse, the old saying “measure twice, cut once” becomes a curse that can bring challenging projects to a standstill.

[@summonsays2610]

Yeah I've been there too many times. The solution like he said is prototyping. Make something you have no intentions of ever being a part of the final project. Just get something physically out there.

[@NoobixCube]

If you take the saying literally (or even broadly), materials are often the stumbling block to a project when you don't have the money for more. Measure twice cut once is great advice to not destroy stuff, or waste materials. That said, people need to accept that sometimes materials lost in an iterative design process aren't "wasted". It's just part of the deal. Step one with any project for the more hands-on types should be to mock it up on the bench. Bodges and substitutes and smaller scale everywhere to prove to themselves it's going to work, then step two is planning the real build. Step three is doing it, and step four is going back and fixing shit that didn't work along the way. It's wasteful, sure, but if that's how you work, that's just what it takes to get the job done.

[@tsm688]

@@NoobixCube which is why you prototype in cardboard.

[@sween187]

If they are asking you to build a free energy machine, give them a solar panel 😂

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

That's the traditional working implementation. Every time one actually "worked" the builder just unknowingly build a solar powered device. Not all solar power needs to photovoltaic. The indirect heat is very harvestable too. It is just that Photovoltaic was apparently the easiest and most convenient to mass produce and use just about everywhere. Flat panels that produce electricity are very flexible in application.

[@anonymes2884]

That was genuinely the endpoint of at least one online discussion i've had about "free energy" - "But what about the Sun, that's free". Weird situation to have to explain "free energy" to a "free energy" proponent :).

[@seigeengine]

These solar babies out here thinking energy grows on stars.

[@Yonkage-ik5qb]

@@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece Reminds me of the time when I was, eh, about 9 years old or so, that I made a device that I found in a book, that supposedly could be influenced by psychic energy. It was basically a small ~1cm folded pyramid-shaped piece of paper that you balanced on top of a pin or nail, stuck upright. If you had psychic powers you could concentrate on it, and it would spin. Well, it turned out I was indeed blessed with secret unknown powers of the mind! And then a few minutes later I figured out that it was actually because of my breathing on the thing was making it spin. When I put it under a glass with some fabric to block all air flow, it would not move no matter how hard I squinted at it. Wonder how many other people made the same mistake, but were no skeptical enough to doubt that correlation does not mean causation!

[@MichaelRainey]

I've occasionally seen an entire Sterling engine as a free energy device. Other forms of thermocouple are common, even if accidental. Photovoltaic gets achieved often enough. Even once saw an induced current from an unintentional antenna.

[@gv100_blitz]

I will go start my project with corrugated cardboard! Thank you for this Adam ❤❤❤❤

[@JoshDisher]

Please post a video of you flying in your home built cardboard airplane!

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

I really appreciate that Adam pre-reads the questions. Means he's potentially given the reaper even a moment's thought, and so it's going to be more useful! Also, he can answer more, since he can double up, as seen here. I know I'm being repetitious, but I love how helpful Adam is to everyone and *_so_* willing to give away secrets, which I repeat this so often BECAUSE I applaud it and appreciate that willingness. ♥️ _(granted, the questions are coming from people who have memberships, but the amount given vs the value of info... he's giving far more than what was given.)_ Thanks for, and keep on being, a textbook case of how we should all be towards each other: *willing to help and give away knowledge that's potentially taken a lifetime to accumulate!* 🍻

[@rogerlong5585]

Wil Wheaton calls the first draft he writes for a story the "puke draft". Its purpose is the same as Adam's corrugated cardboard recommendation: to allow you to get *something* out, just so you can get past that point. Get past that point and then you can continue on with it, take a different direction, or bin it and go on to the next thing.

[@anonymes2884]

Not to take anything away from Wil Wheaton but the term's been in common use for decades among writers (at least in the more common form "vomit draft").

[@JaniceLHz]

Thank you both for the information. (​@@anonymes2884, I'm not sure why you thought there was anything to take away; I did not notice anyone claim Wheaton coined the term.)

[@rogerlong5585]

@@anonymes2884 That was first person I'd heard the term from. Still good advice, regardless of who might have originally said it.

[@kylegonewild]

@@anonymes2884 Still trying to figure out how that's any different from a rough draft.

[@pgramsey1]

Back when, our secretary called it the "ruff draft". Not even up to rough draft quality standards. It's a lot easier to upgrade that than it is to look at a blank page.

[@tylerhensley2312]

I am a mechanical engineer that leans more towards straight lines and I have an old 2000 edition of 3d AutoCAD that I picked up back in the day and is what helps me get to that actual building stage instead of trying to build things from just my head. It helps to get certain things down solid to allow your mind to focus on the puzzling part.

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

I likely know the exact version, as it was the first time I used AutoCAD, which was a Draughting highschool elective class. Wish I remembered how to use it as it'd have made me able to more easily dabble in modeling for 3D Printing. Thankfully I did/do remember what I was taught in my other electives class, where we used Photoshop! I also still have and use Photoshop CS2, from that era. I have CS6, which has more capabilities, but still prefer the older one 😊 It does all I need, after all. _(and thankfully isn't in the cloud!)_

[@aidanabregov1412]

Thank you Adam! This channel was one of your best ideas. My favorite piece of advice this episode is: “expressing your curiosity to your boss” and carry around pictures and physical builds to show people what you’re interested in. Thanks for being a genuine and kind person.

[@Scoupe400]

I love it Adam. A gem of views & ideas. I’ll try the cardboard. They say some people don’t have an inner monologue which I find hard to believe, but I’m warmly glad to hear yours unfold externally / audibly - a delight to share. Thanks

[@HemiPowah]

That "wait, i have a point of view that surprises me" is interesting to hear someone say. I always love that you actually give think through the questions youve been asked rather than just giving a short surface level answer. That's what makes your advice and stories so valuable and interesting I think

[@ReverendTed]

7:08 - This is very much a situation informed by the "F You, Pay Me" talk. The terms must be clear. Your payment must be predicated on the work you've done, and not on the machine working.

[@frankgulla2335]

Adam, you are the best at revealing yourself and your outlook on the world. I am learning something about looking at the world, even at this late point in my life. Thank you.

[@johnniemiec3286]

"The perfect being the enemy of the good." Thanks for that Adam, long time now I have been trying to define that feeling.

[@Beamer1969]

The other thing to remember is "ART" is never finished only abandoned by the creator.

[@seigeengine]

@@Beamer1969 I rather disagree with this somewhat popular notion. There are definitely times where I've felt that something I was working on was complete. Not that it's perfect, mind you, but that to do anything else would be wrong and destructive. It doesn't always happen, but my take on that is just that I failed to execute a coherent whole. In those situations, it's important to realize you're fighting a losing battle and need to strategically retreat.

[@Beamer1969]

@@seigeengine Stopping because anything else would corrupt your work could be considered abandoning your work of art

[@seigeengine]

@@Beamer1969 It could, but in order to argue that, you have abandoned your initial position in a vain attempt at winning, so you've already lost.

[@matthewhafner962]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good is commonly attributed to Voltaire

[@ArtCOOL777]

Adam I thank you for all the advice on the whole show. It's so much experience. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS CONTRIBUTION OF SCIENCE

[@ArtCOOL777]

😄

[@rodchallis8031]

I think even making parts for something like a "perpetual motion machine" risks too much in terms of potentially participating in a scam. Particularly for someone who has name recognition, and a brand to protect.

[@notfeedynotlazy]

Good point. Do it as Adam say, "I'd be remiss if I didn't tell you that my honest opinion is that this is not gonna work, but I'll gladly build you these parts to your exact specifications", then do as @Salgood above comments and inisist on getting paid up front (just in case the client tries to blame you on the failure), then do as you say and insist on your name NOT being associated with the project. Then, and only then, with uyour ass covered, take the money, do your work and grab the popcorn.

[@rodchallis8031]

@@notfeedynotlazy I suspect the main drive of a scam artist isn't the parts, more being able to use a name like Adam Savage as a hook for his whales. And sure, you can say "don't use my name on this" and have it in a contract (if you can, NDA's are getting legislated out of existence from jurisdiction to jurisdiction) but one is already dealing with a person who has a less than firm grasp on telling the truth, so what's the recourse if he or she violates that covenant? As we've seen in many cases, winning a law suit doesn't mean it can or will be collected on, meanwhile the damage to reputation is out there. I wouldn't touch that kind of work with a ten foot Pole. Or even a twelve foot Latvian.

[@RowanHawkins]

​@@rodchallis8031Its not NDA which are being regulated, its non-compete. The problem for the latter is it is an unbalanced, and thus mostly unenforceable contract. An enforceable contract has rights and risks for both parties. If all of the risks are borne by one party then it becomes unenforceable. Once you are no longer employed by a company, unless they are making severance payments, they have lost the right to dictate any of your actions. A NDA on the other hand prevents corporate secrets owned by the former company, not the employee from being stolen by the employee.

[@notfeedynotlazy]

@@rodchallis8031 Oh, how I regret that such a magnificent punt doesn't work in my mother tongue. Also, if a part violates an agreement on a contract, well, that's why they are contracts, as in, legally binding documents where you can sue their ass if needed. People with low grasp on reality may believe laws are optional, but they have an hilarious record of being proved wrong.

[@rodchallis8031]

@@notfeedynotlazy For honest people like ourselves, the threat of a law suit is enough. For seasoned grifters, there's a million ways to avoid/ delay paying a law suit, so they don't see a lawsuit as being the deterrent honest people think it is. Some people love to live in civil court.

[@b1oh1]

Adam, sometimes people that can't get started because they overthink isn't due to the project not being fully fleshed out. Sometimes it is due to anxiety/fear of failure. I'm not sure if that's what's stopping the OP, but I do know that it's often what stops me.

[@KonradTheWizzard]

If anxiety and uncertainty are holding you back: this is the normal state of operation in IT and many other engineering disciplines, so we know how to handle it. Here is how we deal with this: Write the problem down. Write down all the basics that you already know about your solution. Cut the problem up into smaller chunks. Analyze those chunks one by one and create a plan on how to handle them. If a chunk is still too intimidating or too big to formulate a simple plan: cut it up into even smaller chunks until each one can be handled by a relatively simple plan (rule of thumb: a couple of paragraphs or simple diagram). Handle all of those chunks until there are no more chunks left. If problems pop up during implementation: add them to the pile and handle them like all the rest. If something is completely unknown to you: try to reduce it to something very small and basic, do research, formulate some theory, create a (cardboard) prototype for this little uncertain thing - if it works: good; if it doesn't work: iterate. Anxiety is just your brain telling you that you didn't split a task into small enough pieces that you can handle easily. It is also a warning sign that your time and effort estimates are low by an appreciable factor. This second component is also worth considering: in a personal context it just means you need to be patient because results will be delayed significantly, but the road to the results will usually be totally worth it! In a commercial context you have to weigh your risks before committing.

[@careycondor]

As someone who suffers from anxiety, among other things, that often prevent me from getting started, and someone who works in IT, I’d say the above answer has some useful advice and some gems of wisdom and also shows a severe oversimplification and minimization of anxiety and its many causes and manifestations and the different ways we all must find to deal with it. For my part, “break it down into smaller parts” has been successful in getting started on maker or DIY projects, but it usually fuels my overthinking, and gives me my dopamine hits in solving some design challenge in a modeling app, making parts lists, buying tools-all still in that black hole of the Planning Phase. It’s a tricky thing. But I like the cardboard idea mentioned in Adam’s answer as well as this one. There’s something to be said for breaking through to the physical making space while lowering the stakes drastically, so I am going to try this one. I might have to go ask Home Depot for some fridge boxes so I can build some cardboard built-ins. Now how to get over the anxiety of going to talk to someone… 🤔

[@RowanHawkins]

Just remember that in public nobody cares. What I mean is everybody is too wrapped up in their own lives to worry about somebody around them unless they feel the person is unsafe to them. In fact being with total strangers is completely freeing for me because they don't have any expectations of anything about me. I can be anything at that point.

[@KonradTheWizzard]

@@careycondor I'm sorry I can't really help you with anxiety far beyond what everybody feels - I'm a bit of a worrier, but not at a level that would impede me. If it becomes a serious impediment to you, you may want to talk to a therapist. They are usually really nice people and easy to talk to. 😉 For the "normal" level of anxiety: we've all been in "analysis paralysis" mode at some time. We've all been afraid of tackling a seemingly insurmountable project. With over two decades of stressful IT projects in the rear view mirror: once a certain phase (idea, planning, design, implementation, test, ...) shows diminishing returns - jump to the next one and try to fill in the gaps - you can always come back if necessary. One of the benefits of experience is to know when to stop worrying and start doing. The only way to gain experience is to experiment. You'll fail on some projects and succeed on others. Plan for it and embrace the failures - they are the ones you learn the most from. My personal philosophy for my job and projects is: there are no failures, just learning experiences. It sounds like a cliché, but it's actually how I was raised. This pretty much eliminates any anxiety I might have for projects - no matter the outcome, I want to get there and learn something. Try to let curiosity be your driver, not some notion of success or failure. Especially in private projects you will always have a do-over available to you. Don't start a project as "I absolutely need to X" - formulate it as "I wonder whether I can learn to do X and enjoy it" instead - it makes things easier. If you can't do it or don't enjoy it, you simply move on to the next thing or even to a different method of doing it.

[@JohnStrain-eu6eu]

A few years bck, i mind designed a dice rolling cobstruct, but only once tried building that. Lots of cardboard collected, nothing done. Thanks for your channel, i just rethought my approach. BUILD IT. lol. Correct as problems come up, as they will!

[@bas8116]

I know a guy who makes large scale sculptures, like oversized full 3D portraits and stuff like that. Out of cardboard, old boxes and stuff. It’s amazing to see what he does with it.

[@theAkornTree]

Adam describes doing a first pass of a project with corrugated cardboard the way I write a report or email that I know is going to be long and complex: I start by getting as much as possible of the broad strokes written down, just in sentence fragments, and then I work to flesh out and edit each part. I came across the idea from an online conversation between writers about how to start writing something. Someone in the conversation said "Just write anything at all to start. It doesn't matter how crap it is. You can edit crap. You can't edit a blank page." I'm not a writer, but that advice really stuck with me, and now I'm hearing it again in a different form, from Adam

[@silvermica]

Electrical Engineer here: I'm going to add that I've, "outsmarted physics" to my resume - just to see if anyone is reading.

[@JaniceLHz]

Have you received any interesting reactions? Or has no one noticed it yet?

[@doonsbury9656]

As to "Tell your Boss what your interested jn" I devised 5 different working procedures that saved a company I was then working for quite a considerable outlay in both time and money....and my enthusiasm for doing a better job was met by the owner of the company with this response each time "These procedures are now the property of our company"!! No pay raise, not even a "Well done" Guess which company I no longer work for and make a point of telling people to avoid?

[@alan2here]

It's useful to know that over-unity doesn't work, and that "it's not magic just because you don't know how the trick is done". I thought up a design for an impossible device like that and I know it cannot work, it'd be interesting for me to find out what part of the physics I misunderstand, a good learning opportunity.

[@GigAnonymous]

The problem with the statement "over-unity doesn't exist" is that it's both fundamentally correct, and completely incorrect. The thing is - it depends on what you consider to be your input and your output. For instance, it is well known and understood that heat pumps have a R above 1. It 'heats' (or 'cools') more than it 'uses' energy - because what is measured is electric power input vs. moved thermal energy. However, if you take into account the energy pumped *from* (or *to*) the outside air, then your R is well under 1. Now, do the usual 'perpetual energy' charlatans have some place to pull energy from besides their own arses? Well typically no. But there *could* be: just like weak / strong nuclear interaction forces would be baffling to a classical Newtonian physicist, it is absolutely possible that there's energy to be tapped into out of 'thin air' and we haven't quite realized it. I mean we know our best physics models are flawed and can only stay self-consistent by dropping magical constants here and there ("dark matter", "dark energy", "zero point energy", etc.). Doubt that's doable on a milling machine tho!

[@plwadodveeefdv]

​@@GigAnonymouspretty much any electrical production would fit this "thin air" definition, but especially wind power

[@anthonyx916]

You'd need to make sure the contract states that full payment is contingent solely on the fabrication (for which you'd probably want to be paid in advance anyway), and not on the achievement of the customer's goals, and likewise, vendor is not responsible for the operational characteristics of the final machine or the functional role within the machine of any portions provided by the vendor. You'd also need to ensure the customer reads/acknowledges/specifically accepts those terms of the contract by having them initialed. By the time you're done securing payment and disclaiming any liability for the eventual failure of an over-unity outcome, probably would not have been worth the effort, and maybe best course of action would be a polite "thanks but no thanks".

[@jurjenbos228]

I remember that my company were discussing with a big client that thought they'd outsmarted mathematics (some kind of video compression). As an intern in the corner of the room, I quickly calculated that their claims were false. Everybody in the room hated me 🙂.

[@TWX1138]

I often work in CAD when I'm prototyping before cutting and welding to make custom parts for my vehicles. Cardboard-Aided Design.

[@tomhorsley6566]

Even just something as simple as building a custom shelf out of plywood for my 3D filament drybox to sit on, I enhanced "measure twice, cut once" to "measure twice, prototype in cardboard, cut once" :-).

[@EShirako]

If nothing else, my opinion on 'what to do with a client who thinks they have outsmarted physics' would be like Adam says, and even slightly different from that...offer to build to spec but leave the final result to be the responsibility of the customer for assembly and testing, OR alternatively, just write up a VERY exacting contract and include a mention that you do not believe that this makes sense with science as you understand it, "...but perhaps there is an understanding I lack. Considering this, at the insistence of the Customer, Builder will build their item to specification with the understanding that Builder is only responsible for the crafting of the parts and perhaps assembly of the 'collection of parts'. The potential violations of 'local causality' or whatever else is all the purview of the customer. If the named device TURNS ON, it is considered successfully built and remaining payment will be tendered within (whatever timeframe you were seeking to be paid in)." Also, for those of you who think a lawyer is too expensive for a contract, well...that's not always the case, and a good lawyer can help you realize other things that you might want to cover or omit, but if you are a bit brave, write the contract yourself to the best of your ability. At least, do that in the US. Other nations likely have something related to it. Here we call that a 'lay contract', and it gets 'generous assumptions' provided to it by the judge as long as it's sensible-enough for him to do so. You can enforce hand-written contracts. Our NATION (as were most, to be fair!) was FOUNDED on a (fancy but still) handwritten document. Write it well and it would be able to be enforced to some reasonable extent. If appropriate for the device, maybe specify that it will 'turn on' in the contract if it's a thing you know 'will do SOMETHING', and just make clear that you don't think it will be able to harvest free earth-rotation-energy to become 122% efficient and as long as it turns on and spins, the 'science and refinements beyond that minimal level of functionality' should be the responsibility of your customer. SOMETIMES people really think that they have a great idea and want to get it made. Occasionally, the customer truly has something figured out that we hadn't realized before! 99.999% of the time, though, they're just mistaken. If they are willing to pay you to cover the machining they don't know how to provide, well, so long as they'll pay for your SERVICE and not "Their Theory", go for it. If they want it to work like they say it will, that should be on THEM. If you are asked to make an oblong ovaloid in 'so and so' design and at an angle of 'whatever', providing that part and it fitting the spec requirement should be a payable result. Whether it allows the customer to get free energy is on them. You accurately make a part; you get paid...end-of-story. Do be mindful, though, and DEFINITELY get everything in writing, make duplicates, keep records, etc...but sometimes people just WANT you to make a 'wahoo thing' that they know won't 'operate and give us cold fusion but it made seriously-cool sparkly lights so I wanted one made anyway', so why not.

[@Yonkage-ik5qb]

One of my favorite builds on Mythbusters was the propane-tank "free energy" machine that actually worked! That is: it turned extremely slowly based on the gas inside evaporating due to the heat of the sun. One of them commented that all they had done was make a really crappy solar generator.

[@jorymil]

I love the idea of using foamcore for project mockups. Way better than sawing a bunch of plywood only to find you chose the wrong dimensions. Old cardboard boxes and excess mat board work really great for me, too.

[@ItsHyomoto]

That first answer is fun because it's similar to the advice I give people who are caught up in programming something: just open a blank project, slap down what you think you ought to be making, and in that process you'll find the good and bad and can go back to where you needed it and more effectively implement it. Trying to work in that space, the final product, is a place where perfection can feel important and vital because you have competing and important interests, but in a blank project you can just make the thing go, learn what you needed to know, and then take that back with you.

[@H0lyMoley]

I thought I'd beaten physics once. But in the end all I got was sore buttocks and a wounded ego. Don't try to beat physics, kids! Not only does it not work, it'll probably beat you right back!

[@H0lyMoley]

Oh yeah... and if you're going to do parts for someone's "free energy machine" - I'd add one other crucial piece of advice - get payment in advance!

[@Kate-uo5zv]

Friggin gravity is a harsh taskmistriss.

[@H0lyMoley]

@@Kate-uo5zv It's always bringing me down. 😞

[@melvinshaw7574]

Event Horizon had a fairly good line to that effect: "You can't fuck with the laws of physics and not expect them to fuck back."

[@LanceThumping]

There is something that is beautiful to me, hearing someone of Adam's caliber talking about using basic cardboard and hot glue to get thing started. So much of my childhood was building things with cardboard and hot glue that it seems like such an elegant thing to settle on as a first build setup.

[@Dwarg91]

Had started my arcade machine with cardboard to get a general feel for the size of the machine and see how the layout for the joystick and buttons felt in practice.

[@spacebees86]

I always felt telling people about projects would screw me because I wouldn't deliver, but you are right in that if other people know you're doing a thing, it pushes you to do it. I started in health care, moved to biology, worked in biochem, then did conservation. Then the world stopped and I started painting again. More D&D games. Then I needed holiday and birthday gifts for people while broke, and models for my games. So I did more painting, and started modelling and sculpting. After a couple years, that wall and shelf of art helped me get into a props training course, which I would have never even known about if I hadn't lost my science career and got a job, through friends, at a theatre. Perfect is the enemy of good. Work your plan. Work to use. Take risks, learn from mistakes, or better yet learn to turn mistakes into features. I never imagined I would sculpt and paint a giant dragon for a wedding gift, when I was counting river bugs. But here I am

[@TimothyFrisby]

I feel like someone commissioning an overunity device is unlikely to be a good client for other reasons, tbh. Either they're naive and will blame you for not-working parts no matter how many caveats you put in your contract, or they're a charlatan that had no intention of paying you, or expected you to be in on the scam and build a device to fool investors. None of those sound like a fun place to be in.

[@MrJechgo]

Here's a question I always wanted to ask Mr. Savage: Why did the myth "Are elephants afraid of mice?" take more than 2 years to air on Discovery? In "Jaws Special" (July 17th, 2005), the team flew to South Africa to test if punching a shark would repel it, using a mechanized Buster attached to a boat. HOWEVER, on the day of filming, the sea was too agitated, so they postponed it to the next day. In the meantime, they went to a reserve to test the elephant myth, but it aired in "Fish in a barrel" (November 27th, 2007). The thing about delaying the shark myth was explained in an interview special IIRC.

[@leXie1337_chan]

You really expect Adam to know why the execs assembled the episodes they did, how they did?

[@oasntet]

Corrugated cardboard is an amazing material to work with. It's damn near free, easy to work with using only basic tools, and it punches well above its weight class in terms of strength and even strength-to-weight (which is the whole reason it exists). Take two sheets of it and hot glue them together with the corrugations at right angles, and you've got something that exceed plywood in strength-to-weight, easily. And if you like a build and need to make it even stronger, you can use a big syringe to pump watered-down PVA glue into the space between corrugations, and you can pick how many to fill to establish the right tradeoff between flexibility and hardness. Plus it takes weather-resistant primers and paints really well. It's a great material. So great we used to build airplanes out of it!

[@pgramsey1]

Robert Pirsig in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mechanics" speaks of gumption-killers. The things that destroy your gumption to get things done. Junk is one. Adam's answer here is a great one. Start with something you don't mind throwing in the trash. But make sure you throw it in the trash when you're finished, don't let it clog up your workbench and keep you from taking the next step.

[@TBooneFisher6931]

I suggest getting good at CAD and investing in an inexpensive 3D printer. Draw up your ideas and then do a quick 3D printout/model that you can hold in your hand.

[@jamieyoung3770]

I do appreciate very much that this episode was book ended by firstly how to get around yourself and actualize something, and secondly with tales of those who think that with enough people and a little time that the impossible can be achieved (but really the end of the universe comes first).

[@Dave-hp4vh]

Corrogated Cardboard... mind blown. You are 100% right, and i am busting out the hot glue gun as i listen in. S-Tier advice.

[@FourthRoot]

"I would be very happy to construct the parts that you are requesting. However, I cannot guarantee the function of a device that functions contrary to my understanding of physics. As such, our contract can only proceed with the understanding that contract fulfillment will only depend on the dimensional specifications of the product, and not the final performance of the device you intend to build."

[@aikumaDK]

I didn't hear the first question specifying doing physical prop-making. With digital art making, I had the hurdle of starting as well, no matter how great the idea in my head was. I've since realized it's because I fear I don't have the skill to do the idea justice and that a badly executed idea is somehow a "tangible" manifestation of my lack of skill. A blank canvas can end up as great art and bad art - you won't know until you get going. If nothing's made, the list of things that can go wrong is overwhelming. Badly executed art can eventually become good, via iterations.

[@Lawrence330]

When the cost is only your time, I'd argue that the rule holds true. The cardboard mockup is excellent when dealing with expensive physical materials. One can easily waste hundreds or thousands of dollars in aluminum or steel by failing to adequately plan.

[@123moof]

I had a sewing project that I kicked off my digging out a bunch of scraps and sewing them together to make pieces big enough for the bag I was making. By using scraps I told myself it was for "practice" only, giving myself license to just get it whacked together without worrying about all the ugly bits I would leave hidden on the inside. It turned out good enough that I ended up using that "scrap" bag for over 3 years before I finally sewed up the "final" one.

[@davidgleatham9966]

Did you ever see the fold up airplane/car on the 'Love That Bob (Cummings)' tv show? I heard Mr. Cummings had investment in the craft, the car did fly when the towed trailer was deployed; and only 3 were finished. My father had met the builder, so I got to see the workshop and a vehicle in Longview, WA in 1963.

[@kevinlucas8437]

I've found not being afraid to fail makes beginning easier. Plus some confidence I'll be able to figure something out. I call it the McGyver method !!!

[@902496]

One summer I did freelance cad work for a fab shop. Some guy hired the fab shop to make this device. It was basically a motor with a plate attached to the axel at an angle. Linear generators would rest on the surface of the plate, so when it spun, the high edge would move around, and the linear generators would actuate, causing them to generate power. So I was supposed to draw up parts for this thing, and I told my boss the obvious issue that its never gonna generate more power than it takes to run the motor, and he said "we know, we told the guy, he still wants us to make it, and he's paying us, so we're making it". So thats how I ended up spending a summer drawing the blueprints for a perpetual motion machine.

[@seigeengine]

As for turning them down, just say you don't believe the machine will work, and while you "could be wrong," you don't want to risk your client being unhappy with the work you delivered.

[@blaster-zy7xx]

YES! I am a professional product designer and after sketching, we always built sketch models of some sort. Foam core is one of my past faves.

[@peterzerfass4609]

"This was not a shop - it was a shop set" Dang. That was exactly the impression I got when they did interviews at Nikola a few years back showing off their operations in the background. There were machines. There were materials. But the setup as a whole didn't make sense.

[@dodgydioramas]

I had the exact same thing happen to me around 15 years ago. My day job is as a Freelance Technical Illustrator and a client came to me with a free energy machine he had designed, some sort of torus with chambers at different pressures and he thought it would cause a flow of liquid that would never stop! I said right out this would not work and I tried my best to turn down the job of illustrating a cutaway of the machine. He was adamant it would so I did the job at the lowest price I could manage, he went away happy and surprise, I never heard from him again.

[@ka_ekim7277]

Love the advice about getting started and gaining business - curious if that changes at all for people in the middle of nowhere. I live in a village of 500, and 40 minutes away we have a college town of almost 8 thousand people. Its tough out here!!!

[@senseisecurityschool9337]

Great idea at the beginning. Dollar Tree foam board is $1 and far easier to work with than cardboard, because it's a consistent texture.

[@Alvarin_IL]

I work in a development and manufacturing place, we create production lines, and one of our best clients is in the mindset of "this is new, don't know if it works, might not, but would be great if it did" .

[@oryxandcake2011]

My advice for getting past the planning stage is stop thinking and start doing. Not saying planning isn't important but ultimately pointless if you never start. Another point of view I have is if you really wanted to do something then you would do it, put excuses aside. My number one tip for getting started is if you don't know where to start then start anywhere and you'll figure it out as you go, this may end up with you planning retrospectively but again not starting makes planning pointless.

[@KravKernow]

As a lawyer I can only advise, that if commissioned to build a perpetual motion machine, add an explicit term in the contract that you do NOT warrant the product will be "fit for purpose" (But also include a clause that you get a kick back if it *does* work; just in case you're a better builder than you think)

[@stephen3164]

The “free energy machine” comment reminded me of an idea I once had: using wind resistance that cars encounter as a source of energy. After getting a car moving, much of the energy used to go faster than say 40mph is due to wind resistance. Going 190mph vs 180mph takes a lot more power due to the wind resistance. So I thought, what if that displaced air could be channeled through “fans” (wind mills?) to generate electricity to then use in electric motors. I’m no physicist, so I never got past the back of the napkin phase. And it’s probably a lot easier to make the car more slippery in air than it is to try to harness that air to create energy. My initial thought was the fans in the wind stream would cause more drag, and thus the car would consume more energy than the wind mills produced. But maybe there could be places on the car to mount them, or to pull in air from, that would reduce the CoD and also generate electricity. We’ve figured out regen braking - instead of turning momentum in to heat (in the brake pads/discs), so maybe the massive wall of wind resistance can be useful. Maybe a thing big rigs shaped like bricks could use. I dunno. Someone run with it, and if it actually works in the smallest way, name it “Steve system” or something. 😉

[@scotthix2926]

As a former gas turbine engineer, My favorite question for free energy machines is awesome now make it do something useful, turn a valve, turn a generator, turn on a light. A no load full speed gas turbine uses about 20% of it available power. The other 80% is needed to actually turn the generator and make electricity.

[@halrager]

I worked as a bicycle mechanic in a Schwinn - Raleigh - backpacking store in the final part of my undergraduate career at a land grant college. We had a cadre of older guys who would bring us plans for various 'amazing contraptions' that were variations on perpetual motion, 'it will generate more energy than it takes to operate!', or similar. They came to us because they wanted to do a proof of concept with sprockets and chains before the inevitable partnership with the Engineering College and DARPA. Alas, we had to introduce them to friction and its physics companions. They would promise to return with a more refined concept but AFFAIK never did, Physics can be a harsh mistress.

[@secretivesquirrelstudios]

When someone new to me approaches me looking for a build I generally I spend a bit of time looking at them rather than just looking at the idea they have. In every case where I've had someone approach me with a truly fantastical plan I've had my contacts or my spidey sense tell me that I didn't want to work with that client. Thus I've never actually gotten to the point of telling a client that their plan is physically impossible. Usually it seems to me that if people don't know how the physics of their chosen field work they also don't get how the finances and relationships of their field works. I've had to explain to a bunch of people that invisible mounting isn't, really invisible, you can't suspend gravity, lighting watts isn't electrical watts and stuff like that, and I've worked with those people or they've gone to someone more enthusiastic. I generally have a reputation for delivering what I say I'll deliver. The flip side of that is that If someone has a non-negotiable desire for something that I don't think I can deliver, I'll recommend they work with someone else.

[@tje210tje]

You're totally right! I love to prototype projects with cardboard - usually tables or storage solutions. If it lives for a while then I know it has value and I make a permanent version.

[@brianjones6500]

I experienced walking into a "shop" and even got a tour. Everything was laid out perfectly with "station 1 - 16" and each station was immaculate. The guide didn't know I used to assemble airplanes at about the same scale as the set-up he was showing me and I feel he got uncomfortable with my questions and even commented that I must have had high levels of experience in production. I applied for a procurement job and was told I had to much experience then the company went through a massive lay-off. I won't comment on what company I visited because of family employment concerns.

[@brycelynch2138]

Job descriptions are more suggestions than anything else.

[@wm-dopple]

The trouble with building the parts for a free energy machine while making it clear that you don't think it will work, is that when it doesn't work, you will obviously be one of "them" who is sabotaging it to make sure it doesn't work.

[@IcarusRuthven]

Drawfee's Julia's version of corrugated cardboard for digital art is to sketch in bright green. It's an "ugly" color she won't find easy to fit into a color scheme, something she *wants* to be done with it so she can do the line work and get rid of the sketch. It's a good way to work. "Perfect" is better as a verb than as a noun. Start from "bad."

[@malvoliosf]

Famously, Thomas Edison gave one of his engineers, John Kruesi, a sketch for a fairly simple mechanism, a fat threaded cylinder with a crank to turn it and a needle that would track the groove, without telling him what it was or what it was supposed to do. Kruesi built it to spec and presented it to his boss. Edison wrapped a sheet of aluminum foil around the cylinder, set the needle against the foil, started turning the crank, and recited a nursery rhyme aloud. What Kruesi thought of this behavior is not known today, but he was likely a bit confused, but that confusion would have turned to shock when Edison rearranged the position of the needle and started cranking again, and the machine was able to, for the first time in history, play back a recording of human voice.

[@nicklang7670]

I personally, if I wanted to give you my best opinion, thought the second question was about how people want you to under engineer or solve issues that will eventually fail. I mean I guess it could be about breaking physics, but i said this to myself recently is that breaking physics technologically is more difficult to do when physics is breaking naturally. There are many technological things that will break physically under normal physical conditions and operations.