Where Are Laid Off Tech Employees Going? | The Rise of Tech Layoffs

[@DecisionForest]

Hope you enjoy this new format, let me know what you think 🤔

[@cryptic8043]

Tech is like any market: invest time or money when no ones and thinks is a waste of time, then move on from taht market when everyone is trying to get in.

[@DecisionForest]

@@cryptic8043 I was lucky to start in 2009 and back then not many paid attention (at least in Europe). But since 2018 it’s been going downhill (except for the short pump in 2020)

[@charliedallachie3539]

@@cryptic8043but if you’ve invested 10+ years in it and it’s your career…..where do you go? It’s not easy to start completely over in your 30s…and if so …what field?

[@cryptic8043]

@@DecisionForest That is the name of the game, sir. Quantum is the nest narrative. Right now, it is too hard to delve into it right now.

[@IamAWESOME3980]

Laidoff software engineer here. I will tell you where I am going. Straight to McDonald's to work as a crew member or Amazon warehouse to be abused on the packing line. Good luck you all.

[@RolopIsHere]

I spent 7 months training 4 engineers in India to "help me", in the one on one meeting with my manager I told him I was afraid I was training my replacements, and he told me "don't worry no one is getting replaced"... 2 months after that conversation my manager got laid off and replaced by a manager in India, and I got the notice that I will be let go in 6 months. I had 4 rounds of interviews at Amazon and they offered me a very low salary, I accepted it but I am looking for something I don't want to work for amazon, they are soul crushers. The dude that interview me, said he was 30 years old and he looked close to 60.

[@DecisionForest]

@@RolopIsHere the writing was on the wall, it’s good that you realised that’s what will happen. What did you end up doing after you got the notice? Hope you did some “quiet quitting”

[@RolopIsHere]

@@DecisionForest I definetly did quiet quiting, I been "sick" for a few weeks now. While I am having interviews. But sadlythis market is wild, about ~960 applications and only got 6 calls/interviews so far. I only have an offer from Amazon but the salary is low compared to what they usually offer ( I think they are testing how low they can go now). I saw another position where they were paying 40% less for my same rol. So I am preparing mentally to have a lower salary since it seems the competition is crazy for now.

[@lance8080]

Don’t work for Indians , they are cheap and hard to understand 🙄

[@gauloise6442]

Seriously, it would be cheaper to move to india, work remote and travel back to the states to visit family a couple times a year.

[@NobodySomebody-cr4qb]

Work in one of these tech companies, many of the higher ups are giddy with happiness to under cut and give low ball offers. Raises are same < 3% if you are lucky to get one. Fools don't realize once they are done with plebs like me, they will also get the same treatment, only the C-level folks and their yes-men/women will survive.

[@dsinghr]

Laid off guys are living off their wives salary and raising kids at home while saving on day care cost. They sold their luxury vehicles for cheap used Toyotas and cancelled all future holidays and travel. In some cases, they have to sell their house for a loss and moved to smaller apartments.

[@DecisionForest]

You're right, for example daycare in the UK is so expensive that you're better off having one person stay home. So the one that gets laid off takes this on.

[@lance8080]

Who cares , move back to India and buy American cars 🇺🇸

[@lance8080]

@@dsinghr move back to India

[@HOWARD963_]

Sadly, 80 percent of the wives will initiate divorce.

[@pawelhyzopski6456]

​@@DecisionForestbut this fuels divorce rates too. I doubt they will want to come back after they find their place elsewhere.

[@macverishe3480]

I figured out after years of being in tech and would be considered "old", is that these people that run these companies are trend followers and have little to no original ideas or innovation, they just chase what others are doing and they make a ton of horrible decisions and are never held accountable for those terrible decisions, the problem is with the system as a whole, companies have way to much power over the employee, so of course they are going to abuse it.

[@SurpriseMeJT]

Exactly. The business “leaders” just copy what other people do.

[@ismaeljrp1]

@@macverishe3480 thats why it’s better to work for non tech companies doing tech things. Banks, Insurance, Education, utilities companies etc… the market is over saturated with talent and there isn’t enough demand for it in reality. This is because college is pressured onto kids more than it should be when there is hardly demand for what they’re learning.

[@pradyumnanayak9844]

Amen.

[@TheElectronicaman]

Can you tell exactly what horrible decisions they make?

[@ismaeljrp1]

@ overspend on underutilized tools, resources. Decisions made by senior level management. But, the consequences are paid by middle management and lower. Hence layoffs + bonuses for senior management for “saving the company money” when really they are just saving face by firing others.

[@elsah3339]

Lots of words for just, "Where have all the laid off workers gone?!" Then at the end, "We don't know, tell us in the comments!"

[@DecisionForest]

I did talk about what some have done but yes, only a small portion. But the question is: Where did they go? :)

[@stephenhookings1985]

Same place that the ballpoint pens and teaspoons goto ....see what it did there!

[@mexifry222]

Hundreds of these videos with no substance. Bunch of grown men who want to make KZbin videos at home.

[@klyetruman7285]

​@@mexifry222I agree, it's annoying af. No substance nor talent

[@warrenlewis3977]

​@DecisionForest You just babbled on and on and didn't even answer your own question.

[@tobindrake2767]

I worked for Microsoft and got laid off. Zero prospects for anywhere near the same salary. The only saving grace I had was Microsoft acquired the company I was working at before so I got a huge pay-off when that happened and Microsoft had to employ me for 5 years. As soon as that term ended that was it. I still send out the industrial LinkedIn resumes for every job available, but that is going nowhere fast. However, since the pay-off from my former employer being bought by Microsoft was so large, my passive income off my investments is actually higher than my salary at Microsoft was so I really don't care if I ever find another job in the field again.

[@pradyumnanayak9844]

Amen

[@dennisburdick682]

Congratulations! You discovered the key to leave the rat race behind. Be frugal and happy.

[@nikkis8102]

Congrats! What do you do for passive income?

[@Falcon900EX]

I’m betting he’s joined the 4% club and living within his means.

[@kyokushinfighter78]

When Elon cut 80% of the tech workers in Twitter, and things were going fine, if not better, then I knew that this industry had been over.

[@DecisionForest]

We have a long way to go to get to that 20% that’s the remaining demand

[@pradyumnanayak9844]

Amen

[@johnd9031]

They were deadwood so of course everything was fine.

[@Indyy67]

When the layoffs at Twitter happened, everything is not and was not going fine. They are still in technical trouble and that move was not some kind of flex. The people who left went to work for other social media startups like Thread. The remaining people are you H1B works who had no option to go. They are basically technical hostages. I'm sick of this propaganda being thrown around about what musk did. He's a facist shit and needs his illegal ass thrown out the country.

[@patricescattolin43]

What we don't know, is what project and new features that got tossed into the garbage can. Sure, you can keep a website running with a skeleton crew, but that won't grow the business. Case and point. Twitter is a shadow of it's former self.

[@ferslash82]

I was laid off 5 times in the last 2 years. The tech market is dead now.

[@DecisionForest]

@@ferslash82 oh man, sorry to hear that. How come so many times?

[@CuriousPhilosopurr]

Asking the wrong question when you made this video, no?🤔 One of the videos I’ve watched about laid-off employees and jobs was saying that companies are not really looking to promote as well. I also had an interesting personal experience where they gave us job training, but cut us off after 2~3 months and I was doing a pretty good job based on the data I checked (I was able to check how many tasks I was clearing (personally) and there were other records to indicate my efficiency. The sum total of tasks a day divided by my personal handlings and no extra hours. So, I handled everything within the working hours most of the time). One of the supervisors even told me I was a quick learner and I was great at handling new systems. But when I still got laid off it made me think after all the job training we received, they cut us off and what a waste of money and effort (of the supervisors) it was (we were receiving payments during that training). My personal experience sounds a little different from the rest, but I saw the data and still got let go.🤷🏻‍♀️ Posting this because someone out there might relate to my personal experience.👍🏻

[@airborneranger-ret]

Ouch

[@AP-te6mk]

Damn that sucks bro. I hope you get something stable in the days to come :)

[@thzene4967]

Sorry to hear you experienced that and also shocked you landed that many jobs in the last 2 years wow

[@denniszenanywhere]

My father who's an OG programmer recounted to me his experience working for a big company decades before. They were 300 then 80 then 3. He said what he realized back in the days is that programmers make themselves obsolete for this type of job. That is the nature of the job -- the way companies see programmers like him.

[@DecisionForest]

We certainly do, and we feel great about automating processes. But we forget about our own interests

[@denniszenanywhere]

@@DecisionForest Yes, software engineers need to be mindful that if they are working to automate something, it's just a matter of time when companies will think of removing some people.

[@FullStacker-dev]

the indian's CEO ( google, microsoft, ...) sending jobs home

[@DecisionForest]

@@FullStacker-dev 😂

[@wjpyle]

It begs the question...do y'all really want a 2nd generation Indian as effective CEO of the entire country? She tries to sell herself as something else but that's what she is, look it up...

[@matheus.tecchio]

That's actually true, IBM has an Indian CEO as well, and they just laid off 5 thousand people from multiple projects and now is an Indian company (third-party) that is carrying over these projects

[@sankkham]

Bt In India there is more layoff than USA.

[@ctjmaughs]

Gotta cut costs somehow

[@augustoliver2779]

The same thing is happening to accountants. Companies are hiring CPA-ready accountants abroad and certifying their work here in the US. Life sucks for Americans right now.

[@DecisionForest]

Oh really? It makes sense that they're doing this across the board unfortunately

[@zmkarakas]

vote TRUMP

[@lukus-alexeileonard2678]

that should honestly be illegal

[@acounttemporary5017]

CPAs here in our country are in demand because US companies are all over the job sites looking to outsource their accounting at a cost less than $1,000. 😏. Eat that whities! 👊

[@calicoesblue4703]

@@zmkarakas No, hell no

[@ludwikd]

It's insane, for a help desk position they have 100 candidates fighting for it lol...the system is broken.

[@DecisionForest]

insane, although if 98 of them are taxi drivers then it's just fake competition

[@Adixon5]

How many of them are actually qualified though and aren’t just random people vying to get into the tech industry because some influencer told them to?

[@jaehparrk]

era of software jobs is over. skilled physical jobs involving aerospace, ocean, outer space, drilling, mining, and skyscraper construction are growing ultra fast

[@lukus-alexeileonard2678]

that’s incredibly boom bust as well even globally. you can drive thru major cities in parts of Asia and see dozens of half built skyscrapers.

[@jaehparrk]

@@lukus-alexeileonard2678 tats why to finish those projects or skilled demolition team is needed. this era will not be easy for comfort seeking deskjob office ex-employees

[@catdaddy5192]

Who needs skyscrapers now that the commercial real estate market is almost dead?

[@pradyumnanayak9844]

Amen

[@catdaddy5192]

Drilling? With oil demand dwindling across the globe, I don’t expect drilling to become a hot sector any time soon

[@commandersprocket]

The quality of code I’ve seen developed in India on the five projects I’ve seen outsourced has meant the end of four of the five companies I’ve been involved with that outsourced work in the early 2000s. There is an enormous gulf between Indian grads trained with rote memorization and grads elsewhere. The type of cost cutting or seeing is going to have the same impact on software that we have seen with Boeing creating planes to drop out of the air. Sacrificing quality has deferred cost, but those costs are still real. Over the last decade and a half. I’ve already seen the quality of software collapse. European and Russian programmers are great and lower cost than the US, but they are considered too expensive by these companies, Indian programmers that have gone to grad school in the US are great as well. The issue here is India’s degree mills, and the mountain of nepotism that seems to fuel hiring in India.

[@DecisionForest]

I completely agree, I worked in various companies with outsourced workers from both India and China and the quality of work and the communication was awful across all projects. Having said this, it's a culture, language and communication barrier that companies still refuse to understand it exists. It's not just about the difference in pay, the higher pay in developed countries comes from the little extra things that you get from that workforce. But that's something that multinational companies cannot understand.

[@velocirapture89]

Oh yeah. I saw this too.

[@Kenone1988]

Indians are just 'Yes, Sir' people. You can't expect creative solutions from such people.

[@bubbasanches4591]

Yes, India is not talented.

[@calicoesblue4703]

@@Kenone1988 That is not true. Their country is led by bad governance. They have a lot of poverty they are dealing with.

[@MrBranh0913]

I was laid off in May and got a job in July. Then got another offer a few weeks later. Since I was remote i decided I would work both temporarily to catch up on bills. Then one job let me go within the first month. Despite delivering my first project on time. A friend told me that they were going to fire me no matter how well I did. And that it’s just cheaper to bring in a full time employee for a month to get something done than to hire a contractor and have to pay them. Luckily the 2nd job is still around. And I’m loving it there. I have taken the dive into low level and systems programming. It feels more laid back to me. And more niche . Not as many jobs but also not as many applicants.

[@BigBrother04]

By low level you mean Linux or c/c++?I did elec eng back in the day and I often think I should go back and learn embedded programming 😂

[@hijackhypergamy]

​@@BigBrother04low level is going to have very minimal abstraction layers, so c, c++, rust. And system programming could be in those low-level languages or higher level languages rather than an application that often provide services to a user, system programming provides those services to other systems.

[@DecisionForest]

That’s crazy that they did that just to save a bit of money for a month.

[@rdkrussel]

I would find another 2nd job just for security reasons

[@BigBrother04]

@rdkrussel always good to have a second job, maybe a part time gig. Often when you check deeply your skills, you might discover there are skills you can use for a gig like tutoring if u r good at stem or interpreting if u r speak more than one language, which is what I do atm. Pays me enough to cover energy bills and more, working less than 10 hours a week on the phone. I am also thinking of doing a course required to register as immigration advisor. Something I think I have a lot of knowledge with and could do part time, remote and for myself in the future. Still pondering whether it's worth investing the 6k for the course. ...but I have blown over 10k on stupid cars or stupid trips overseas, investing in education and licensing shouldn't be that bad. Plus who knows, I could eventually land a cushy job in government with all immigration going on these days.. 😆 🤣

[@peternorthrup6274]

Now retired I've been through 4 plant shut downs. I was highly skilled labor. Each time I had a new job in a matter of days. Each time we had to move to another state. I never trusted anyone. Always, always live within your means. Be prepared to be canned at anytime. Do the best you can your reputation is everything. Nothing lasts forever. Work hard and get out early. Have fun.

[@DecisionForest]

@@peternorthrup6274 great advice, it’s important to be flexible and adjust. I share similar thinking and don’t have an expensive life although costs in the last years are increasing

[@kevinforshey9259]

I got laid off and now I can't even get a fast food job, I can't make it past the 3rd interview because I don't have a PHD or something like that. So since it's pointless to even try to get a job anymore I'm working on a startup pretty much full time..

[@stephenhookings1985]

On UK radio today there was a discussion about end of life care. It has started to become about cost. When The State becomes like a Corporate CEO it's a real problem!

[@DecisionForest]

Your business is the only thing you have control over. Applying and interviewing is just wasted time and effort and the ROI on that is not worth it

[@VAIBHAVMALHOTRA19]

I can relate myself with you. As an IT person I am geting rejected from BPO interviews even though I speak very well. Infact I would be happy to work there. The reason they give is "everything is fine but you're an engineer so you should apply for tech field". I'm like if I would want to work as an IT guy then why would I apply here 😒?

[@pusabodhisattva2183]

you mean you are building a startup yourself? Otherwise, working for a startup definitely can be a good full time job

[@kevinforshey9259]

​@@pusabodhisattva2183Yes I'm building it myself. I've created a mental health management app that can predict suicide risk at 95% accuracy

[@johnvonachen1672]

My career as SE and SWQA has never been stable enough to have a family. I now drive Uber full time in a college town and I’m pretty happy doing it. I work on my own software in my spare time. I make between 20 and 30 dph. Last night I made more than 30 dph average over the night. Any week I want I can make 1k in the span of a week while taking care of my Mom.

[@callmeishmaelk767]

I wouldn't want to be starting out as a SE these days. I'm 55 and been doing it for over 30 years, 😆 ks like a nightmare now. Thankfully I'm towards the end of my career and have everything paid off so if I get laid off or fired and have to finish out the final few years making 30% less that's doable. But damn this is a shit show for anyone starting out and then keeping it going for the next 30+ years while being harassed with Agile, not worth it.

[@Kenone1988]

STOP training your replacements in india.

[@ji-wonseong1623]

Where are we going? We're either forced to scramble for low wage jobs, work multiple mediocre jobs, or move back in with our families (if we even have that luxury).

[@DecisionForest]

This, unfortunately for so many people

[@gauloise6442]

Visit the third world. That is our future.

[@marvin6016]

@@DecisionForest This is good for inflation. Most high paid tech people were entitled.

[@dennisburdick682]

Well, that's because your skills are not in demand. Look for other jobs that are in demand.

[@adventuretai]

I'm a senior sysadmin and its getting insanely hard in our field too. I've had to add electrician, engineering for both software and hardware, network architect and AI development just to stay relevant in my job position and I'm barely making $74k in cali where my rent is around $3,200 a month.

[@dennisburdick682]

Calishithole is VERY antagonistic to business. Get rid of democrats if you want to keep your job.

[@CuriousPhilosopurr]

They should get together and set up a company.

[@DecisionForest]

Think it's happening everywhere

[@CuriousPhilosopurr]

@@DecisionForest I hope you mean people getting together to start their own companies…🫣

[@topgxpert]

Yes I call it make even the same company and cut into the markets. That’s what Europeans do when mass job loss happen it creates what’s call the shop mentality where a lot of small shops are setting doing the same job the big company is doing

[@bubbasanches4591]

It would fail, these people got fired for a reason. They're the lowest performers and didn't add value to their companies.

[@Kokopellli]

I saw a guy in microsoft t shirt checking receipts in costco, not joking 😢

[@DecisionForest]

that's what he got as a parting gift probably. but seriously, prices are through the roof

[@Kokopellli]

@@DecisionForest he was a 45 - 50 years old guy with a beard

[@virgilbierschwale5001]

Happened to me 22 years ago. Never recovered

[@jeanah685]

The jobs are in the trades now. It would be smart to learn a trade. Plumber, electrician, locksmith, carpenter, welder, forklift driver, etc.

[@dennisburdick682]

Or wiping butts in a nursing home?!

[@newmobile1455]

plumer charged me $800 to replace a metal pipe for a plastic pipe electrician charge $150 to fix a light switch

[@nikitachirich7985]

B.S to this day, I was an electrician before getting an education in software decades ago. A 3-4 year apprentice in Denver ( top 5 expensive city market) makes $21/hr right now. That is deep into your apprentice training. If you're just getting in, you still will need classroom time and 50,000 hours to test for Journeyman. C'mon man. Most trades unless you own a licensed business, DO NOT make a living wage in their market.

[@newmobile1455]

@@nikitachirich7985 you said you you can barely afford to live where you do then move to a cheaper city/town rent in my small city is $750 a month for a two bedroom

[@mochalatte3547]

The laid off employees are shifting from private to public sector. The pay is lower but job security and benefits are higher than that of private companies. That being said, it does take longer for govt jobs to shift through 1000's of candidates and finally get to you..assuming you qualifed for that role, pass the exam and the specific case questions. Then you are on the eligible list and wait another while for local govt depts to select you. Then wait for a panel interview and IF THEY LIKE YOU, then you are in.

[@lightowl4345]

I saw a job that had 21000 applicants. Unemployment is probably at 10%

[@DecisionForest]

Most probably

[@Adixon5]

That’s nuts…. I think the most I saw was like 10k or something, and it was a simple help desk job

[@ifeoluwaadeoye6557]

"Congratulations! You have been promoted to customer!!". You know what happens when every other company promotes their workers? No one has any money to buy your shit.

[@CantoniaCustoms]

I think companies don't bother even selling to customers anymore. The only customers with money to pay are the government and investors.

[@newmobile1455]

if companies fire their customers who will buy their products workers are the customers

[@389293912]

One big benefit of hiring In-Amerca is the R&D tax credit is only available for work done in the U.S. That means the entire cost of the engineer can be deducted from tax whereas hiring offshore is only a business expense.

[@Hmoney0]

Not anymore the tax code changed in 2022

[@nikkis8102]

I heard that the R&D tax credit did not get renewed and that was part of the reason for the layoffs.

[@Wrighjj]

I worked at a company that would almost yearly (4th quarter) massively layoff tech even put the project temporarily on hold. In their bean counter minds they could switch it on and off with no harm done. Well, when you go to restart you aren't going to get the same people coming back. They've found other work in the meantime even leaving the industry. You bring in a work force with no handoff from the prior team. They will spend time spinning up. They will do a bunch of reinventing the wheel. There is a huge waste of time and budget. Of course, the stock boost at the end of the year paid out a bunch of bonuses to execs. Let's do the same thing next year.

[@bobzeepl]

I am a laid off tech guy (by the big G). I didnt apply for thousands of jobs, took pretty much a year off, sent my CV maybe once a month for remote jobs only, got one really low level but super happy with it.

[@MarioMeyrelles]

I will sell pizza or other foods in my restaurant. No AI will replace the need for eating.

[@QmdVJ4KrCjUk888]

Robot can make the pizza and the customers can just pay for it. No more human workers!

[@MarioMeyrelles]

@QmdVJ4KrCjUk888 if the customer really needs to go to my restaurant in this hypothetical world of robot workers, it would still be nice for me. Using AI to avoid hiring people looks good. Well, thinking about it, we can use AI in 2024 to do a lot of developer work to create our saas or startup. Maybe, this is the best time ever to create a software company. Or not.

[@DecisionForest]

This is definitely the easiest time to create a startup. But the hardest to turn it to profit organically, not through raising funds. The pizza idea is evergreen though, people will want to eat in places where they get HUMAN interaction. Look how sad those automated places are where you don't get served by a person

[@MarioMeyrelles]

​@@DecisionForest I tend to agree with the idea that "we should sell what we would also buy." I would never go out for pizza in a restaurant with only robots. :) Regarding startup or micro-saas ideas, it takes a lot of time and investment to make a good living from it alone. But honestly, it's better to start storing water before getting thirsty. So I agree with you, and it is better to start making some online presence to sell knowledge, influence or a product so that, in some years, we can be independent of the 9-5 Ponzi scheme.

[@Wesley-rn7oc]

They definitely have human-less pizza shops. One tried to recruit me as an engineer.

[@AaronBlox-h2t]

Some historical perspective guys, to put the current tech Depression into its proper context: in 2000, during the Dot Com crash, I was job hunting as a jr. Webmaster, aka Web Dev in those days, and still got 3 job offers from 6 interviews in 1 or 2 months. I did have the latest tech, JavaScript at that time, so that was a factor but still.....

[@cocoblac]

India is now taking the software programming and IT work because their living standards are in deplorable conditions and companies can thus exploit them for their high skill however these companies will be susceptible to scamming, hacking, IT blockages due to the fact that the Indian workers are being paid extremely abysmal wages and thus will become disgruntled and envious.

[@midlifecarsis6420]

Huge shortages in skilled physical jobs in the UK. I know scaffolders earning £100k.

[@lukus-alexeileonard2678]

who wants to live in the uk with all those refugees 😢

[@HiddenAdept]

I really hope the working class learn from this. Learn that the shareholders don't care about us. They only care about quarterly growth and stock buybacks. I'm hopeful we'll have more employee owned companies. Where ordinary workers can have a say in the direction of a company.

[@cryptopunk888]

There are no jobs because all the internet websites and iPhone/Android app features is 99% completed. AI is a tiny area of tech and every developer trying to squeezed into. Bottom line, no new platform to develop in means software engineers are dime a dozen. Salary grinds lower and jobs are very difficult to get

[@zell863]

Yeah original thinking. Can be that is all developed that need to be.

[@sib431]

I am one of those developers that got caught up in the layoffs. What I am doing now is mostly panic applying to jobs and making content online.

[@mmeeozzzaaa3421]

Don't panic apply. That's the way of diminishing returns. Try and find someone you know who works at the company. Also if you happen to be using AI to create your resume, DON"T. Use that as a starting point and then rewrite it in your voice.

[@calicoesblue4703]

Have you ever tried asking Christ Jesus to help you?

[@newmobile1455]

learning to code payed off uh

[@samsohn3045]

Great video that gives deeper-than-superficial insight and answers questions than many other videos out there in the recent days that are simply skewed towards a general feeling of despair/outrage. 10/10, +1 subscriber

[@DecisionForest]

Thank you, appreciate your support 🙏

[@spacecats3649]

My brother in law got fired 8 months ago - he's just living off his savings. He's had a ton of interviews and no offers. Hubby also was working in the semiconductor industry - massive lay offs too. Lucky, I still have a decent paying job low 6 figs but we're struggle a little bit because of inflation, our mortage, and we have a new roof and fix our HVAC system. I'm glad I stayed in my field (health/safety industrial hygiene, microbiology) instead of SE -- dodge a bullet there!

[@labyrinth242]

That’s why everyone is getting hacked. We need to make corporations pay higher fees for layoffs.

[@isfk]

This will import a lower standard of living in the long run. Companies are basically racing to the bottom until a global market brings everyone country to the same economic level.

[@WeekendsOutsideFL]

Domestic companies Offshoring and the tech automation consolidation will eventually eliminate so many well-paying domestic incomes that Americans won’t have adequate income for their products. Will prices fall to meet this improved automation and reduced domestic income? Or will the companies just uproot and entirely move to those other emerging countries to perform the same long term wealth extraction they performed here first?

[@Johndnguyen1982]

My American company layoff many coworker and start investing international and hire international. Making me so mad.

[@biform13]

You nailed it in the beginning: for the cost of one software engineer here in the US, you can outsource and have 8 in India.

[@Adixon5]

Sure, but the quality of work is not the same which can cost more. Companies have horrible foresight and visions nowadays it seems

[@MrShrejo]

@@Adixon5 that’s a myth tbh, there are a few examples where you can say that quality is not good. But companies can have 8 people for the price of 1 here and have 3 of them ensure the quality and in most cases design is still driven through the senior engineers in the US and in India they do mostly grunt work.

[@DecisionForest]

Wouldn’t say it’s a myth based on my experience but it’s different from company to company

[@dendi1076]

they become youtubers, like u

[@DecisionForest]

😁 Probably so, although don’t see many new faces in my feed

[@cryptic8043]

They become youtubers who talk about how the tech industry isnt pumping seven figures anymore....lol

[@DecisionForest]

@@cryptic8043 wish I made 7 figures in the good times, unfortunately in the UK we were a bit less fortunate

[@catdaddy5192]

Enough with tech. We need cheap energy and cheap food and not another model of iPhone with ten cameras!

[@novarem9828]

Laid off a few months ago. Gonna take my savings and try to start a business while im doing that I'm gonna go into plumbing or something. I like building my own projects but working on other peoples codebases is very painful. Every job I've had I had to deal with lots of tech debt, spatting code everywhere I had to fix.

[@DecisionForest]

Starting a business is the best thing you can do and if it doesn't work at least you have real experience and you can compete at a different level

[@devinaudette9770]

I definitely can’t find a job in tech. I have a Bachelors and three years experience. I would accept anything and am not particular. I’m getting calls for contract roles with no benefits that pay minimum wage and want to be on call.

[@XXAI-1]

Watching this video reminds me of what I saw on the news earlier. The brain drain at openai also seems to be severe. The current environment does not seem very good。how do you feel

[@tincustefanlucian7495]

There are many non IT industries where the software developers were way too expensive in the past. Now those industries are certainly are profiting and hiring cheaper and competent developers.

[@cbaesemanai]

I am no longer working for big tech companies and its amazing.

[@DecisionForest]

That’s the way to go

[@mrbanditos3583]

Doing EE feels like a god send in this economy, it seems. Not only you can do trades but also major stuff like Computer Engineering, Automative Engineering and more. And not many gonna push themselves to Automative, for integration work and PLC programming.

[@snipelite94]

The bubble burst. Wonder what the next bubble is going to be ?

[@Bladorage]

How many companies' made money with AI? Video games in general as in nearly all of them because it by in large a default requirement.

[@DecisionForest]

From what I read lately, video games sales aren’t doing too well, I may be wrong though. Can you detail or share a resource so I can look into it?

[@gauloise6442]

AI is really affecting the creative and content industries, also translation.

[@bubbasanches4591]

Game dev is bloated with noobs who think because they enjoy games, they should make them. I've worked at AAA company, it's not as great as it appears. 12 hour days with no overtime pay and often no bonus. they are meatgrinders.

[@rdm5547]

​@@DecisionForestGame companies are infested with dei and woke hires who are promoting propaganda in the name of game with abysmal quality. that's causing sales to plummet.

[@thenatureboy1837]

Hardware support is where it's at.

[@greglane3978]

Remember when Tech workers made a nice six figure salary, got everything paid for (in house meals, game rooms, message chairs), etc.) and were living high and mighty. Pepperidge farms remembers. And those times are not ever coming back. Learn to mine coal.

[@DecisionForest]

@@greglane3978 😂

[@emletai119]

Applying occasionally, but honestly, it's a ghost town and recruiter are a joke. I have three recruiters with no hits. So im starting a business online

[@Adixon5]

What kind of business?

[@emletai119]

​@@Adixon5 Digital product consulting

[@Adixon5]

@@emletai119 what does that entail?

[@CarlosAlvarado04]

Real AI is quite costly. Not much companies can afford a data center to fine tune a model. RAG models are not enough on some quite specialized cases.

[@DecisionForest]

100%, now they're just implementing AI accelerators from these cloud providers, not realising how much money they're burning without any ROI. At least the compute companies make money

[@mujkocka]

Even internal transfer, some girl approached me and told she wanted to go into cloud. I wasn’t impressed with when she worked for me. Just having a few basic certificates is not sufficient. Not knowing that we’ll just tell me how little she understand about cloud

[@TheBlackManMythLegend]

its really simple the invest money goes to xai and openai and no those companies so they act like they want to hire people but they actually cant and try to have lower salary to pay.... also who is profitable?

[@DecisionForest]

@@TheBlackManMythLegend exactly Rob, who is profitable directly from AI except for the foundational LLM providers

[@downtomars6268]

None of the presidential or parties are talking about tech layoffs, they talk about dirty manufacturing jobs. They don't talk about the outsourcing to India, in fact the US government is promising tech jobs to India without saying at America's expense.

[@dadada486]

The reason people want tech jobs as well is that they have the best chances of being 100% remote and everyone want to stick to wfh as much as possible due to covid!

[@AronKim-h6c]

this was a perfect explanation of whats going on in the moment, 10/10. So true, i feel all this as an aspiring tech job pursuer, tech job opportunities are not as glamorous as it seems

[@DecisionForest]

@@AronKim-h6c thank you, just keep in mind that if you’re really passionate about this, the market conditions don’t matter. Being employed in tech is just one avenue

[@ChristinaFrieburg]

Indeed and WorkDay huge problem

[@FritzSmith-h4g]

So, how come all the layoffs aren't reflected in "consumer spending", and the stock market is at new highs?

[@ChiCityLady]

Generative AI is over hyped, but predictive AI has more potential. Users need more skills to get good results rn, tho.

[@DecisionForest]

Yes, but that’s been going on for some time and it’s actually useful. But Gen AI.. It’s new.. it’s untapped :)

[@alpha3305]

Transition into another industry or taking roles abroad in countries that lack the talent. That's the advice I hear.

[@michaniewiadomski7911]

As for me (I was a junior software engineer in Poland), I heard that there is a trend in the West for tremendous lack of blue collar specialists, so I started up a second specialization - and became industrial welder. The job is tough as shit (was especially at the beginning) but I get to pay the bills and buy food, so I'm buying time and continue to send resumes for IT. By gaining exp as welder it's possible I will move to more profitable place in some time if there's no place in IT.

[@victorlee9428]

My son got laid off from a semiconductor company. That company has 90% H1b and L1 works. Why american tech workers got laid off first and H1b and L1 workers still have a steady job. In fact He has been looking for job almost five months and got 0 job interview. He has very good education and experience. I just do not know if company prefer to use India H1b workers why stays in this country?

[@andrea2007andrea2007]

Laid off tech employees already started to fight for minimum wage jobs in physical industries, or left to cheaper countries to get a tech lead job for far less pay. Some are trying to get into the start-up scene. But there's no end in sight. Western business leader have failed to (didn't want to) force governments level up poor countries, through investment, to become consumers, savers and investors based on the baby boomer recipe, instead they went for levelling down. Offshoring reduces cost, and increases profit, in the short term, but destroys local communities, local investment, savings, 401ks. This will lead to lower quality in everything, food, housing, medical services, and will lead without a doubt to a financial bubble burst, which will happen everywhere at the same time with a frightening speed, making look the GR of 2008, a Disney movie for kids. The only way out of this, is onshoring, nationalisation of all critical services, housing included, and investment grants into green production, locally. products and services must be produced locally. And the only way globalisation will ever work, is through LEVELING UP, just like Bill Gates talked about a uniform and unitary global health care service, during the pandemic.

[@DecisionForest]

I completely agree with all your points, great write up

[@fruitypebblez4309]

It seems like it's best to work for local company. I was working for a payment processor and they are sending jobs to india. Most of the employees are from India now as well. Hardly see any US born citizens at the office anymore. I got laid off 2 months ago. There are 2 things I have learned in this: 1. The older languages on the mainframe Aseembler and cobol are not going anywhere. Learn those old languages. Still millions of lines of code out there for those languages. They can always find a java, python, C# programmer. But they cannot always find an assembler or cobol programmer and they throw money at you if you know those. 2. Find a company that's local. The IT team will be alot less like 10 to 20 people but if it's local they are less likely to send jobs overseas.

[@mfanakithi2002]

Very true, it feels like guys are putting up roles but aren’t interested in closing the gap

[@kcwidman]

What is the circular “paint brush stroke” like tattoo on your right bicep? I’ve seen it before and am curious what it’s from.

[@DecisionForest]

It’s called an enso, it’s a zen symbol

[@nco_gets_it]

most of those being laid off are not "tech" employees, but employees of tech companies. These companies overhired for years and now the bill is due.

[@nco_gets_it]

Don't forget, you voted for this.

[@Rich-NH]

And we have no union, no unity, and no backbone to push back. Honestly, tech workers are the easiest people to exploit in the workforce.

[@kaicooper9421]

We're still here, just waiting. I'm with you haven't seen a usecase out of a chatbot were AI actually bring something to thte table. It can write code but it still has to be debugged. I'm just waiting in the wings

[@AlwaysHopeful87]

Digital "Black Sunday" of Youngstown, OH in the early 80s.

[@sparty837]

This always happen with hot new technologies. If you back 30yrs, the PC industry was exploding and hiring like mad. Then 20 yrs ago the PC became a commodity with the $500 pc and the layoffs came along with offshoring. Stock options disappeared for all except for those with a P in their title. Now you are seeing with the internet companies and it is just beginning, Musk fired 75% of the employes at Twitter and it actually improved. Meta, Microsoft, Google will be firing more than 500K employees over the next several year.

[@yanasosnovskaya864]

funny thing that openAI is really non-profitable company, they got investors money, but profit is quite low to compare with operation cost.

[@JT-mr3db]

The VC money honeymoon period is over in tech and it’s made entering the space very difficult no doubt. It’s a dangerous time for a lot of companies however. There’s an awful lot of very pissed off experienced tech workers with a bunch of free time. Time to build that idea and take control.

[@MagarethWoods]

Last year, I was working full time, budgeting groceries, unable to afford date nights, and missing time with my kids. Now I learned how to make money online. Now am a SAHM, homeschooling, and making profits every week.

[@mexifry222]

Liar. Shut up bot

[@gauloise6442]

Great group of spam comments!

[@DecisionForest]

Sorted them out, thank you for pointing it out as I haven’t seen them

[@charlie64x2]

I was laid off in Jan 2023. Enjoyed a sabbatical with my severance package. Came back to a crazy market in 2024 and took 6 months for a company to hire me for around 60% of my former salary. The market will fix itself and go up again. And will crash again in 5-15 years. These cycles will continue to repeat. I’m just waiting for the big offers to come up once money is free and the next hype show up at the door.

[@DecisionForest]

Hope you’ll get back to it soon. Cycle wise, not sure this time will be the same though

[@994pt4]

Yep...you need the FED to start printing TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of free dollars so we can all have a job again!

[@DecisionForest]

@ funny how QE became necessary for us to be “successful”

[@CarlosAlvarado04]

Not everything is programming. I'm on infrastructure side and jobs are fine.

[@DecisionForest]

True, that's all we have left :) but the crowds will come in

[@matheus.tecchio]

I am studying software development, and I am really think about focus on SysAdmin stuffs, perhaps change my degree for an Information Technology indeed

[@ChristinaFrieburg]

worked on Chatbots and LLM and the AI (hype) Stinks

[@Hummer999xx]

There were layoffs from Texas Instruments over a week ago.

[@ViceCoin]

Enjoying freedom.😊 investing, working out, lifelong learning, shopping during 9-5.

[@DecisionForest]

That’s the good life

[@bubbasanches4591]

Crypto scammer? based on your profile

[@ViceCoin]

@@bubbasanches4591 Read a book.

[@ajett5081]

Where is the money? It is in the money ink, the rolls of money paper waiting to go to press machines.

[@mattanderson6672]

Fantastic analysis Thank you Sir Brilliant discussion

[@DecisionForest]

@@mattanderson6672 glad you enjoyed it 🫡

[@razvancoca1472]

next expect lousy quality, bugs, software that underperforms. on my computer - and on yours

[@DecisionForest]

Are you Razvan from Ioteo from back in the day? Mate, how the world changed

[@razvancoca1472]

@@DecisionForest Same Razvan, yes 🙂

[@DecisionForest]

@@razvancoca1472 wow, it’s great to hear from you. Happy to see the good no nonsense attitude 🫡

[@fmguillory]

Reality: Companies lay off necessary engineers. Release software without regression testing and remove fundamental functionality while doubling prices.

[@DecisionForest]

It works in the short term for those quarterly reports. In the long term not so much

[@Truckngirl]

They're still in tech, just on the user end driving Uber and delivering Door Dash.

[@tylermckinley8651]

The machine learning algorithms that drive today's AI were developed in the 70s. Those were some of the smartest people to have ever lived. There are very few people today who actually understand AI.

[@DecisionForest]

Unfortunately yes. But when you understand it, you can’t hype it up like they do

[@scepticalbeliever]

Even the very first registered domain belonged to the AI company

[@dennisburdick682]

To truly understand A.I., a degree in Neurology and/or Psychology is required. But we older Computer Scienctists are retired now. Adaptive algorithms was fun to develop. I miss those days.

[@nikitachirich7985]

I am a laid off senior technology manager, now I am a commercial lic driver doing uber taxi, black and turo garage with a medallion. I don't compete with India anymore for jobs outsource, I compete with east African drivers for airport fares.

[@DecisionForest]

Why did you decide to leave the industry? Or are you still looking?

[@nikitachirich7985]

@@DecisionForest Not really looking I was laid off 18 months ago, then 4801 applications in, I made 50 network connections, only had 5 interviews two of which went 8 rounds, and no offers. Said the jobs weren't in budget. Recruiters lie too, ALOT. I'm basically done right now, unless someone offers a role from my networking.

[@DecisionForest]

@ sorry to hear that, this is the reality for two years now. I hope it will recover but until then applying is just wasting time. Hope your network will help

[@johnd9031]

Years ago when I was in programming the laid off workers entered many different fields from taxi driver, IRS to dentist.

[@sergiocarmona7238]

if you have this level of intelect and skill. you should abandon tech. make you own thing or other industry. its not worth anymore. its a waste of life

[@DecisionForest]

@@sergiocarmona7238 I agree that in the foreseeable future, we will all need to move into entrepreneurship, not necessarily huge projects but something that we can grow and develop.

[@dendi1076]

agree, tech is not worth anymore, it's better to do your own thing since u are already smart and dedicated enough to do tech

[@DecisionForest]

@@dendi1076 this is the only thing to do nowadays if you love tech. The low hanging fruit has been picked but smaller projects that can be maintained easier can be a way

[@Adixon5]

If everybody is “making their own thing” the country cannot properly function

[@dendi1076]

@@Adixon5 you either make your own thing or become a slave for your country

[@Zhenya0516]

You go to jobs that offshore can’t touch , us citizens only or hybrid positions that require on-site presence . Industry nitch jobs that require business knowledge. Offshore is technical but they are nulls in understanding how business is done and run in the US.

[@DecisionForest]

Good points, I agree the onsite requirements will help weed out offshore applications. But it won't be enough as even within the US, clueless candidates will still apply for anything even if it doesn't match their skills.

[@FrankTheTank-fg3xq]

Situation in UK is no better, its been an employer driven market for over a year with no end yet in sight. Salaries are eroding, jobs are being lost to offshoring yet we still keep being flooded with bootcampers hot of the COVID hype boom. Nobody knows if this is a permanant thing or a bad period we will overcome which makes planning for your career difficult.

[@DecisionForest]

I’d say it’s been dead-ish since the end of 22. On the offshoring aspect I haven’t seen such an appetite from companies for more than a decade, think it was like this in 2009-2010 for a while but now it feels a lot more attractive for them.

[@FrankTheTank-fg3xq]

@@DecisionForest After COVID companies learnt that they didnt need staff to be located in the office to keep the company afloat. Due to this many reservations that once existed were removed and offshoring became on the rise again. Great outcome for some, bad outcome for others.

[@JJSeattle]

I'm not into sales, but got sales team 50+ years worth of leads with Ai. They normally gain about 200 leads a year going to shows and conventions...their CRM is mass busy 😊

[@Swanzo]

I'm glad I work in a cheaper cost of living part of the United States. Makes the salary I ask for more competitive.