Where Are Stealth Games Hiding? - A Rant

When your stealth skill is so high you no longer exist.
Join us for the Thief II stream here: / raz0rfist
Check RazörFist on Twitter: / raz0rfist
Join the RazörFist Force: steamcommunity....

[@johnnywilkerson8834]

Stealth games are fine. Forced stealth sections in other games suck

[@CecilTheDarkKnight234]

spider man on ps4, evil with in 1-2 come to mind has having shitty forced in stealth sections.

[@kjemradio]

Worse is stealth with quick time events. You know because reasons.

[@unncommonsense]

Stealth in a non-stealth game is bullshit. The mechanics are never right because they didn't put them in the damn game to begin with.

[@shawklan27]

Agreed with this

[@flyboy6392]

@@CecilTheDarkKnight234 In reference to the MJ and Miles sequences, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but stealth as Spidey is something I actively enjoy being a stealth-focused superhero

[@HPSmugscraft]

Note on Razor's ending comment on marketing: "Did you know marketing is only legal because 90% of the time it doesn't work?" -Dilbert

[@handsomebrick]

Marketing is often conflated with advertising, but they aren't really the same.

[@landonhagan450]

People sleep on Dilbert, man. It's easily the greatest Sunday comic strip of all time.

[@HPSmugscraft]

@@handsomebrick marketing is much more broad than simple advertising or sales.

[@jick408]

@@landonhagan450 dilbert had a cartoon series that was awesome as well.

[@gnarkillguch]

Stealth games don't make ALL of the money, so they're not considered "viable" anymore by the companies that used to make them. I'd rather have an indie spiritual successor to Splinter Cell, than whatever Ubisoft would do to the franchise nowadays anyway.

[@Johno1992]

He was in the ghost reacon wildlands and is coming to breakpoint on the 24th

[@SwallowFury]

Yeah, at this point, I'd rather either new IPs or at least Rayman and South Park from Ubisoft.

[@Fickji]

To be fair, it's hard packing loot boxes full of power armor and Uzis into a game about sneaking past your enemies. And microtransactioned cosmetics consisting of fuchsia T-shirts aren't really immersive for a character that is trying to blend into the darkness to not be seen.

[@rando4523]

Peace Ecaep syphon filter was the shit, got the first 3 games for PlayStation still.

[@SUPERULTRAMAGNUM]

An indie spiritual successor to Splinter Cell sounds like a good idea to me. Would be cool if they could get Michael Ironside on board to voice the main character.

[@CountArtha]

Not only is Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory the _perfect_ stealth game, it has a better story than most movies.

[@ElTigre12024]

Chaos Theory is a masterpiece. For a game released in 2005 the graphics were ahead of it's time. Best game of the franchise, which went into a slow decline afterwards.

[@jackdaone6469]

I still wish that Ubi would go back to the Chaos Theory formula, because damn was it sublime. I still love going back and playing it specifically so I can play and have fun pursuing the optional objectives with each level.

[@mikethemaniac1]

not to mention they finally managed to balance the line between overly clunky and overly fluid. Conviction was too fluid and streamlined.'

[@mattmill7892]

yup

[@DudeInOhio85]

It's not really hard to beat Hollywood in story telling. Let's be honest.

[@LordB-dg8ks]

Stealth games take patience, foresight, the ability to plan ahead and maybe a bit of creativity in the players. All of which is in sharp decline when it comes to the people video games are being marketed towards

[@dragonaut7338]

I met Terry Pratchett at a book signing in 2001 as a young, obsessive lover of all games Point & Click. Asking him with great enthusiasm whether or not there would ever be another Discworld game, he unfortunately replied, of course, in the negative. He did, however, suggest that I pick up Thief, as in his words it was the "closest thing we will ever have to another game set in that universe". I ran off the next day and picked up Thief, and I am pleased to say that I have never looked back. Incredible game, incredible sequel.

[@constantin5509]

Wow, that is a badass story. Terry Pratchett was a great writer.

[@zlodrim9284]

That-s a great story!

[@DrShaym]

I'm trying to eat chicken wings with a fork and knife so my hands don't get dirty.

[@Bacillus4]

I always thought a game based on HG Wells' "The Invisible Man" would make a great stealth game. Imagine it, you're a genius in 1897 Britain who managed to turn himself invisible, and are now on the run from the criminal organization who funded your illicit experiments. Like in the novel, you're physically robust, but you're also running about naked and with no weapons. So, you have to rely on your invisibility to steal resources, gather intelligence, and kill those who are coming after you, all the while avoiding hazards which might give you away like rain, mud, and mist. A game which really makes you think in order to win.

[@jeesusmeesuss5247]

Dude, so glad you gave tenchu a mention.

[@oOBulletsponge]

The original was the most legit ninja game of it's time.

[@_XR40_]

@@oOBulletsponge _Only_ legit ninja game of it's time...

[@cloudtx]

Tenchu is so freaking good. I've played it several times already. Also the soundtrack is just brilliant. The theme when you fight against Onikage is pure badass.

[@ajsingh4545]

The ps2 game and z were awesome

[@constantin5509]

Thief: The Dark Project was an absolute masterpiece. And I say this as someone who played the game for the first time in freaking 2016. With a graphic mod this game puts to shame a lot of modern AAA titles. The atmosphere, the levels, the story... it was quite unforgettable. I completed it 3 times before feeling satisfied enough to move on to Thief II. Now THAT'S the mark of a great game.

[@zlodrim9284]

Even the vanilla blows most games out of water nowadays and that is a testament of how ahead of their time Looking Glass Studios was and what a Greek tragedy their story ultimately proved to be.

[@crossbones116]

Unfortunately if your game can't make the GDP of an average sized nation in sales, a lot of the main developers don't want to know about it. At best you'll get a shooter where you're expected to crouch in the shadows a little more often. Or where the 'stealth' has been violently lobotomized. The current Hitman games aren't perfect, but they're at least breaking rank.

[@Prich319]

One of my favorite stealth games is an old Xbox game Called WWII: Prisoner of War. The whole game revolves around escaping from several Nazi prison camps. It's different from a lot of other stealth games because as a prisoner, you have a daily schedule that you are expected to follow, from reporting for morning muster to lights out, and in order successfully to acquire the tools you need to plan your escape, you may have to learn the guard shifts, or even bribe a guard with "currency" you find around the camp. Aside from that, I was also pretty big into the original Splinter Cell.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

The statement "not commercially viable" is what is known as a cop-out. Something is only as economically viable as the size of its budget. The smaller the budget allocated, the more viable risk-taking becomes and is allowed. Interestingly enough, just this last Sunday, Ben Shapiro had on his Sunday podcast Jason Blum, of Paranormal Activity, the Purge, Get Out, Tooth Fairy Starring Vin Diesel, and The Hunt fame. Jason Blum is a unique Hollywood producer, as he's actively refused to leave independent film-house filmmaking and stuck to low-budget independent films. He spent some time earlier in his career working with big Hollywood studios, and he's noted the reason why modern films are so homogeneous in subject matter and style. They're designed by committee because as budgets balloon, you have to allow more and more control of the film to go over to the investors and the corporate leadership. When a film has a giant budget, it has to try to appeal to every demographic in order to try to recoup all costs. This means all niche films (something Jason Blum as ironically enough a horror and thriller producer is passionate about) are pushed out of consideration by big studios. We've seen something very similar happen in video games with the nearly complete death of the AA studios. Looking Glass, Psynosis, Incognito, Zipper Interactive, Westwood, Pandemic, and dozens of other classic mid-range developers have died off (or been shot and dumped in the corporate graveyard), and former AA studios like Insomniac and Naughty Dog have had to change from being platformer mascot makers to focusing on artsy critic-bait games to survive. Stealth as a unique genre alongside my favored combat flight simulators have died out as a result of their niche appeal.

[@crocidile90]

Well, Ace Combat is still kickin so there is still hope (though that is arcade "simulator" which more "realistic" would be WarThunder but, I can see why you would have reservations with that game and not include it).

[@666kingdrummer]

Remember when people "just didn't want horror games anymore" ? Then Dead Space shocked EA's stockholders, and then Amnesia and Outlast became indie hits. And now remasters of old Resident Evil games are basically out selling everything on the market. AAA game companies are so clueless.

[@llamadasinrespuesta4631]

@@666kingdrummer horror, stealth and singleplayer games are not viable because we said it. -EA and Ubisoft.

[@666kingdrummer]

@@llamadasinrespuesta4631 Yeah pretty much. and "Not Viable" is just corporate-speak for, "We don't want to make those games, because we can't find a way to cram in a ton of DLC and Micro-transactions without pissing everyone off."

[@chaosgyro]

You can't say that the publishers aren't doing it, then give recent examples of where they did it and were rewarded with cash. Times are changing. I'm not declaring victory, but horror, sim, and single player are on the rise while idiotic loot boxes and worthless micro transactions are on the way out. (Not counting persistent multiplayer games here) To use the Hollywood example: major studios are focusing heavily on brands with massive budgets and similarly massive box office hauls, but we're also seeing a continuous offering of other "enthusiast fare". You can pick any random year from the last decade or so and find a couple small budget films that wound up wildly popular.

[@webbrowser6454]

"The stealth genre didn't just die.... IT WAS MURDERED"

[@mathis8210]

You mean, it was ... stealth killed

[@grantsamson2384]

Stealth games are about a patient, thoughtful approach to solving an encounter; you have to sneak around because you'll be killed if you don't. Most modern games seem to be more about empowering players and constant dopamine hits, and stealth games really run counter to that.

[@sarodinian7089]

Eh, I’d say they’re more concerned with selling dopamine hits and empowerment one micro transaction at a time.

[@sethz91]

Now wait just a minute, I'm in marketing. I'll have you know that I only devour the blood of the innocent in my free time... on the weekends. They wont pay me to do that M-F 9 to 5.

[@TGNXAR]

Don't they allow you lunch breaks, though?

[@tbirddddd]

If you're good at something never do it for free.

[@alexkogan9755]

Last game with good stealth I played was Deus Ex Mankind Divided. Last of Us’s stealth was flatter than balsa wood and Horizon Zero Dawn (while enjoyable at times) was Ass Creed stealth done worse.

[@corporateshill7473]

I replayed MD last year and my love for it increased.

[@Tuberculosis_Man]

Alex Kogan Try our Styx: shards of darkness.

[@alexkogan9755]

Tuberculosis Man Need to play the Styx games at some point.

[@ElTigre12024]

Deus Ex Mankind Divided is phenomenal, but could have had a lot more meat on its bones because the campaign was significantly shorter than Human Revolution.

[@alexkogan9755]

Ray LaFleur it needed to be longer than how it ultimately ended up. I mostly blame SquEnix for how stupidly they mishandled it. Not helped by how terrible the DLCs were also implemented.

[@TheSaskOtaku]

Oh God I can see Cleanprincegaming ripping this video off for a “The Stealth Genre was Murdered!” piece.

[@fakegeek5462]

The hack of all youtube and gaming.

[@yokai1235]

didn't he made one last year

[@Rokiriko]

He is still around?

[@chillhour6155]

@@gerinx3994 he's an ex GameStop employee

[@shawklan27]

@@fakegeek5462 agreed

[@DaMaster012]

So Razor's theory as to why the stealth genre has slipped away into the shadows of obscurity sounds like my speculation as to why rock and metal have been pushed to hole-in-the-wall venues while pop and hollow rap are given center stage in stadiums; if the public at large developes a taste for quality content that the soulless corporate industry doesn't control, the public might realize that corporate has been feeding them grey slop, and corporate would actually have to start putting work and effort into making products that can't be made by computers just to compete.

[@_XR40_]

Wow, look at you. Talking about "...rock and metal..." and "...quality content..." in the same paragraph...

[@horvathbenedek3596]

@@_XR40_ Let me guess. "Metal music is just noise".

[@_XR40_]

@@horvathbenedek3596 No, just casually trolling....

[@Sellipsis]

What pisses me off is that Pop music has the potential to be fucking gorgeous music but it’s a genre squandered by trends that corporations have imposed upon it. My evidence to my case consists primarily of the Japanese Artist known as Aimer. Go and listen to some of her stuff like Re: I am, Broken Night, Am2:00, and Fuyunodaiyamondo (re-echoed) Nemuri No Mori for a good sampling. This wouldn’t be an issue if people who worked in the genre had an actual love for it. But it’s all soulless atp.

[@Sellipsis]

Shemsuh0r how does any of that negate what I said about the current state of pop versus what an artist across the pacific is and has been doing with pop since 2012? 2009 could be argued to be the last good year for mainstream pop music in the west (need a refresher? Listen to DJ earworm’s “blame it on the pop”) and yes some bangers still cone out here and there. But it’s a shadow of what it is capable of. Seriously, go listen to some of Aimer’s stuff and then read the lyrics. Fuyunadaiamondo is a song about a prayer to god as she tries to understand events that have unfolded as she is clearly in deep mourning. I can’t think of a single song from pop in the west the not only sounds as beautiful as it does but has as deep of lyrics in the past decade. If it exists, I want to hear it and stand corrected.

[@pongomb]

Razor, please do more stealth retrospectives and deep dives into the genre. They are great

[@விஷ்ணு_கார்த்திக்]

I Love how Razor still calls it "Hitman Abomination" after all these years.

[@666kingdrummer]

Replace Stealth with Horror, and its almost identical to how the AAA games industry was 10 years ago. And seeing how much better horror is doing these days, there is defidently hope for stealth.

[@JoesGuy]

While horror games are doing well commercially, they've all been shit since the 2010s.

[@domehammer]

Horror was doing great until AAA smelled green. Now its kinda meh.

[@cloudtx]

@evan achter There are rumors that Sony is looking to buy the Silent Hill IP from Konami. Now, you may like or dislike Sony but I'd find it hard to argue that any developer could handle the IP better than piece of crap Konami.

[@CP-uw4ts]

@@JoesGuy indie horror is different

[@jackburton1455]

Currently, I'm avoiding people. Not because of Kung Flu. I've just dusted off my old copy of Chaos Theory.

[@adrianshephard378]

@Iron Hands Terminator the Shanghai shivers

[@jackburton1455]

Yellow fever?

[@zlodrim9284]

I found my old disc of the game as well.

[@enginear663]

This sweet and sour sicken no gud.

[@bloodking73]

Look up the video called "i have covid 19" from cokeman and skip to 2:25 for a good list of names

[@adonizi]

Sniper Elite is an underrated stealth series.

[@tehFozzeY]

Isn't it basically Uncharted with Nazis now?

[@forresttheroman7225]

I doubt you ever see this Razorfist but i would like to say that you got me trough very painful times in my life like when i broke my ankle but managed to hobble my way back inside and of course right now when i broke the same ankle a second time and i want you know that the content you make is great and is helping through a rough time my life and how much better you made life in general. So I wanted to thank you for everything. Thank you for reading this essay id you did With great respect and love a Razorforce fan in a Bad Way P.S. i wish i could have done in a superchat or something that supports the channel.

[@TecknoNinja]

Me, its always gotta be Tenchu Wrath of heaven or its original xbox version Return from Darkness that i would say without a doubt is on part to Thief 2, that and Shinobido way of the Ninja being a close second just with the amount of creativity and ingenuity with its stealth mechanics and creating your own items to suit your playstyle. Also you can build a kickass backyard when the ninja factions or bandits try and attack you.

[@mrfivegold]

Well if the rumours are true will be getting a new stealth game in 2020, Styx 3, the search for more fourth wall jokes.

[@Cultureghost]

Styx 3: It's just the Styx 2 levels again

[@mrfivegold]

Cultureghost shh.

[@HenryIVth]

Got a link for any of these rumors?

[@mrfivegold]

Oskar Fekonja just friends who work in the industry. Apparently their planning a 2020 reveal with a possible release for 2022. But they might delay it since E3 is cancelled and the last game didn’t sell to expectations.

[@HenryIVth]

@@mrfivegold That's great to hear, hope Cyanide Studios pulls through! I'd love another Styx game, not even with improvements or new features, just more levels.

[@TheSaskOtaku]

“Sacre bleu Saskatchewan” okay this did make me laugh but I’ll have you know we resent the French over there at Great Value Fra- I mean, Quebec.

[@Bluehawk2008]

It's like making a joke about Cajuns in New Mexico, it doesn't make any sense.

[@seinfan9]

I need a Chaos Theory spiritual successor.

[@CaitiffFTW]

There is a part of me that is legit upset that you didn't mention the absolute majesty that is Mark of the Ninja.

[@SuperBuckleMan]

You know what's an example of bad stealth in video games? Those Mary Jane missions in Spider Man PS4.

[@DovahKanye]

If only Kojima didn't make his switch to the delivery sim genre.

[@MrWill9894]

Ironically, after “how pretentious can you get” at the end of the video I got a Tom Morello ad.

[@comicsans1689]

Start using an ad blocker.

[@kungfuman82]

You mean the communist guitar lessons that you have to pay for? I always laugh at that shit.

[@weldsj8847]

May have to try Thief 2 sometime. The whole stealth thing has eluded me for 20 years. Gotta give it another try.

[@FFFan3445]

Splinter Cells 1 through Chaos Theory are the peak of the genre for me, but Deus Ex did it really well, too. Each Deus Ex game, minus spinoffs. I've tried Thief 2 a few times, but I've developed a garbage attention span over time; need to hunker down and really give it a serious go sometime.

[@AsianTheDomination]

I found thief 1 and 2 better the second playthrough. Running around in circles is pretty tedious in thief 1. thief 3 is also really good. it is streamlined a little but it surpasses the first game to me and its much easier to recommend

[@JamesGhodbane]

Metal Gear Solid (PS1) and Splinter Cell Chaos theory are my all time favorites stealth games I miss this kind of games

[@jackharpe3rd233]

I never really was a fan of stealth growing up but I definitely agree it still deserves more recognition then it gets in today's gaming culture.

[@jcbailey1112]

Keep an eye out for Gloomwood by Taffer King. It's still in early development, but looks a lot like the Dusk of Thief.

[@susano7135]

Mark of the Ninja certainly didn't reinvigorate the stealth genre, or anything even close to that, but it was and is a breath of fresh air for stealth games. If no one here has checked it out, I highly recommend it.

[@merritt2014]

Because they're basically impossible to monetize.

[@archfriend]

I think this is true. Selling your game as "stealth" or "stealth elements" conjures a feeling of a niche genre that was a fad for a while, and for people who are into broad action or competitive games (fighting, racing, shooters, sports) it kind of means "slowing down the pace".

[@HolyknightVader999]

And that's part of the reason why game studios have turned their backs on them.

[@simplegarak]

Happy Birthday T2! Unlike my children, you were never a disappointment. (also, thx for some of the recommends, Raz0r, I'm always looking for new Tenchus and Thiefs to enjoy)

[@joesomebody3365]

Some people have been mentioning it's because stealth games are much harder to monetize (as by nature they are single player), hence modern triple A publishers don't want much to do with them because they can't turn them into a cash stream. That's probably one reason we haven't seen many of them lately.

[@Gillymonster18]

Something I noticed about stealth: it’s largely for show. I just picked up “Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines” and it is ridiculously hard. Put simply, if you don’t use your gadgets and focus on being phantom-esque after capping someone you’re going to lose. The only other two stealth games I played in any real quantity was Deus-Ex HR and Splinter Cell Double Agent. From what I’ve experienced in non-stealth focused games that incorporate stealth elements they’re really only a thin veneer to cover up the typical in your face action like with Assassin’s Creed, Uncharted, Call of Duty, Elder Scrolls and Fallout. While they may be there still, they aren’t really much of a juggernaut anymore because the gaming industry has shifted towards short-term twitch reaction rewards (instant gratification) and people have gone along with that. Games that reward patience and planning simply aren’t in the majority or at least anywhere near as profitable as Call of Duty, Overwatch etc because that’s the way gaming society is being groomed.

[@elLooto]

"From what I’ve experienced in non-stealth focused games that incorporate stealth elements they’re really only a thin veneer to cover up the typical in your face action like with Assassin’s Creed, Uncharted, Call of Duty, Elder Scrolls and Fallout." Its called "dynamic shift" and is used in every entertainment form (music, books, movies, et al) so the producers can give you another adrenaline/dopamine hit with high energy content. usually a game with "steal elements" is just using it to provide the low energy content. Sometimes it is used more creatively, like the Pixies song Gouge Away (eg), other times less so.

[@Tuberculosis_Man]

The stealth genre didn’t just die! It was murdered!

[@jackdaone6469]

Tenchu: Stealth Assassins still has one of the best soundtracks of all time. Tenchu Z’s biggest failing, aside from its lack of an English dub, is the soundtrack being very generic, overall.

[@comicsans1689]

>lack of an English dub You say that like it's a bad thing.

[@UkraineJames2000]

@@comicsans1689 based

[@thahjosh]

Yes, the song in the opening movie was great.

[@Evision5]

Splinter Cell Chaos Theory to this day is still my favorite stealth game of all time. Damn shame there's nothing recent that lives up to it in my book.

[@zlodrim9284]

Play both Styx games if you haven-t, they-re great.

[@GreatSmithanon]

I've been playing a lot of Metro: Last Light lately, and stealthing through that game is actually pretty fun, especially in the DLC that has you playing as characters other than Artyom. Highly recommend the Anna mission and the one that has you searching for artifacts as a Polis ranger

[@LynnJynh9315]

I really need more of the cat-and-mouse sniper battles in MGS3 and MGS4.

[@EastsideShowSCP]

Damn, you mentioned Betrayal at Krondor.... now THAT takes me back!

[@swirlershark-dragon8393]

I loved the Syphon Filter games and characters including the VAs.

[@Aaron-vn5fd]

Offensive, entertaining, informational. Subscribed.

[@btdarmstad5815]

I didn't play Thief 1 and 2 until 2016 or something, and I was kinda blown away by them. That stream starts at 2AM here, but I wish I could stop by.

[@Vorpal_Wit]

I dont care what anyone says - Dishonored was one of my fav games of all time, and I really enjoyed Styx as well (especially the humor).

[@dynamo4543]

stealth games are awesome & they really need to come back especially the splinter cell series,i do like the stealth games that give you a choice thou aswell of being stealthy or going in guns a blazing or little bit of both in the game,id love to see stealth games make a big return

[@joshuapreston7170]

The last time I was this early for a razor video, the DNC actually had a platform

[@iamhungey12345]

Last time I was this early, the Democrats were worth voting for.

[@peposo7]

@@iamhungey12345 Wow. Raz0rfist wasn't born yet then...

[@marker9196]

I think the main problem stealth as a genre is facing these days in regards to it's 'popularity' is attached to the fact that as a genre that very heavily depends on notions such as patience, subtlety and restraint it not only has a somewhat higher bar for entry in regards to players (you can't just crank the difficulty down to minimum and brute force your way through the game as you can with something like an FPS, for example) but those are also qualities which are very hard to sell to the mythical 'wider audience', compared to other genres you typically don't have things like action set pieces, explosions or other flashy visuals to immediately grab people's attention (and in fact, the inclusion of these things in the game not only tends to clash with the tone and mechanics but in cases where they do crop up, they tend to be the worst parts of it for the same reason forced stealth sections in action games are widely loathed). Stealth absolutely has a lot of promise as a genre (as you correctly point out, it's had some absolute gems in the past and will no doubt continue to do so) but in the current industry climate of many companies needing a project to either become the next big thing or be deemed a failure the comparatively niche stylings of the stealth genre are at an inherent disadvantage. The other genres mentioned, rythem games, turn based games, horror games etc. are all distinctively different in that these are all genres that either can be mutated to accommodate this 'bigger, harder, faster' mindset inherently or are games that were simplified and streamlined in order to accomplish it (resulting in commercial success but in a lot of fan backlash).

[@anime-mun]

I have found that there is a budget title on the Switch called Thief Simulator. It shows so far to me to include driving escape concepts, lockpicking and working on how to hock your targets. For a small company attempt its pretty neat so far.

[@an2qzavok]

[clears throat] third-person open-world action-adventure with stealth elements~

[@Snyperwolf91]

This reminds me about Top hats and champaign . I miss that cool bastard....

[@Vladi_AK47]

I still play Chaos Theory and enjoy new Hitman 2.

[@lavitzbass6666]

i remember playing Syphon Filter wen i was young and i think that you could play that stealth in a ways

[@MaxResolve]

Hey Razor, keep your eye on upcoming indie stealth game Gloomwood. Still in its early development stages, but taking HEAVY inspiration from the original Thief games.

[@orionslaver432]

Stealth games: *pop out of carboard box, snap your neck, strike a pose, go back into hiding*

[@robv.johnson6360]

I enjoyed Mark of the Ninja quite a bit, too bad that didn't get a mention but boy do I miss Tenchu. Loved those games.

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

Thief and Hitman were good shit back in the day. Side note- ON POINT with the HORNA shirt, hellyes.

[@TimmyTantrum]

Speaking of the rideout song, a Mythos showing our Nipponese brothers Loudness or Anthem some love would be a very welcome thing, just to add to the massive queue of video ideas, I'm sure.

[@12bfost]

Great video! I agree with all your points, however, there is one (I think)you overlooked. As a former Marine who served from 2003-2007, I experienced firsthand the industry's shift from stealth (MGS3 & SPLINTER CELL 1-3) to FPS's like CALL OF DUTY as the Iraq war progressed. From a marketing perspective, I wasn't surprised but, it saddens me to see how the stealth genre has fallen to the wayside. Like you, it is (and always will be) my favorite. Keep up the good work, GODFUCKING SPEED!

[@garfieldwithissuez]

I couldn't agree more. I would love to see a modern sequel or even reboot of tenshu but. Not unless the studios does it right.

[@TheBlackJester]

That's the problem. A lot of businesses today is marketing decides what they want to sell, and then the company makes it. Rather than the other way around.

[@n7troopern795]

Seriously don't want my next splinter cell open world side quests and xp boosters

[@CP-uw4ts]

@evan achter except Sam isn't a spy, he's essentially CIA black ops going by real world comparisons.

[@CP-uw4ts]

@evan achter Except CIA black ops is known in particular for guys who stealthily kill their way for information, they don't waste with talking or pulling the wool over people's eyes. Those who are recruited to CIA black ops are usually navy seals(like Sam was), green berets, rangers, marine recon etc etc.........there is a difference between the agents who spy and the agents who kill.

[@ARTalive01]

Great use of that Thief quote at the end!

[@Chevalier_knight]

Splitercell chaos theory is my fav stealth game and metal gear solid 2 is my fav game

[@CompoundInterest-SG]

Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun is an amazing stealth game. If you all miss stealth games, then you should go and try that one.

[@MultiRokusho]

Stealth in elder scrolls online for thieves guild and dark brotherhood dlc was difficult if only because of its online and doing heists the AI had lanterns that saw everything and you didn’t have the bag of spells you had in even Skyrim to use. Weirdly enough playing oblivion afterwards I became a master of stealth because I kept expecting the npcs to be omnipotent.

[@hudsonsirheshicks2653]

It’s so good to see someone keep the small flickering flame of Looking Glass alive, I know of no one else doing so. I’d love to see a career retrospective. If you’ve done one, do another please. Lol

[@punishercork]

Splinter Cell as a series, made me a better gamer. it changed my approach to things and I went from struggling to excelling overall. The training videos in Chaos Theory give you examples of how to think rather than what to do. It was there that I saw the competition of trying to kill the least amount possible as success. Now with large open worlds and the 7 feet visual detection range of AI, Stealth is too easy instead of challenging.

[@Tony-ol9ru]

MGSV was nothing more than a wasteland simulator masquerading as a "stealth" title with AI the equivalent of a celery stick.

[@HolyknightVader999]

Let's be honest: MGS4 wasn't a stealth title either. You could completely ignore stealth and kill every last mofo between you and the exit.

[@darkpuppetlordful]

@@HolyknightVader999 so just because you CAN means 4 has no stealth? Alright man seems kind of dumb

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@darkpuppetlordful A stealth game forces you to sneak around. Having stealth be an optional thing makes MGS4 about as much a stealth game as Halo is. Halo gives you the option for stealth but allows you to ignore it and kill every last man between you and the exit.

[@ccrispy4828]

HolyknightVader999 And not to mention the ridiculous story trying to tie up every lose end🤦‍♂️. When you try to please everybody you end up pleasing nobody

[@HolyknightVader999]

@@ccrispy4828 That's the point. Either make it a stealth game or an action game. Or make Snake pick a class to stick to so he can either be action or stealth oriented.

[@Tiberon674]

I like you Razorfist. You're a throwback and remind me of guys that I used to know in the late 80's. Back when kicking ass and being loud was the thing to do. I also think that it's no mistake that the stealth genre has been taken off the shelves. I think it worries the elite of the world that these type of games can almost be used as training to sneak into their guarded mansions and take them out.

[@dragonandavatarfan8865]

"I think it worries the elite of the world that this types of games can almost be used for training to sneak into their guarded mansion and take them out" Ah yes, if there's one thing that your average obese american gamer is known for is their terrifying potential to be the next Solid Snake.

[@Tiberon674]

@@dragonandavatarfan8865 I know that doesn't sound plausible and even a little funny. However I don't think it's just a coincidence that that entire genre of video games has been taken off the market when it still has a large fan base to profit from. Why do you think that is?

[@dragonandavatarfan8865]

@@Tiberon674 indeed that's the question isn't it. Of course this comment section is full of all sorts of theories but among I found two reasonings to be the most logical ones, 1). Stealth games by their very nature requires heavy patience, understanding a situation, having awareness of enemy patterns and planning ahead efficiently, basically stealth games makes you actually think and use your brain a little which let's be honest is still too much for your modern tiktok induced AAA audience who have such short attention spans that any game that doesn't give them that sweet sweet dopamine triggering action gameplay within the first 10 seconds is deemed "boring" by them. 2). While stealth games do have a somewhat huge fanbase, just like fighting games and grand rts strategy games the complexity of stealth games as mentioned in (1) makes it very less accessible and is unfortunately fated to be a niece category now and if there is one thing that you can confidently state about modern AAA greedy game companies is that they would rather spend millions on the next call of duty or generic third-person over the shoulders action adventure games than actually taking a risk and making something new and original. Maybe one day stealth games will make a huge comeback hopefully but I am not holding my breath, for now AA and indie studios are your best bet. Also there is a nice video titled "Stealth games are getting old" from a channel called Lextorias who explains all this issues in a much nicer way so you can check that out if you like.

[@Tiberon674]

@@dragonandavatarfan8865 I agree with your first point about the nature of stealth games. Having patience, situational awareness and effective planning are integral to being successful at that particular game genre and at life in general. Why else end a entire popular and profitable genre of gaming geared at older boys and men? They don't want men to exercise their minds in that way. Not every genre is supposed to be "accessible" to every person. "Niche" categories are still very popular and profitable. That's why different genres of gaming exists. To give people with different interests, different gaming experiences. Not to make all genres "accessible" to everyone. If someone is not intelligent and patient enough to play stealth games, because they have the attention span of a flea then there are plenty of other options available.

[@dubiousprime2021]

tenchu is a masterpiece in my opinion. what a wild silent ride.

[@Mythronies]

Deadly shadows is my fave and I keep the box on my desk...with the rest of the Thief games. I do miss grand stealth and strategy games, a lot of good stealth and strategy are out there as Indi games like The Messenger and Mark of the Ninja. But its hard to deny, if its not A open world RPG, shooter, or a sequel to a well established franchise like Pokemon it just wont be marketed. Most games I hear of today is through word of mouth or Reddit.

[@Ghost_Text]

Imagine a spiritual successor to Splinter Cell, with all the wall crawling and jiu jitsu, but the patrol units instead of typical henchmen with far too limited peripheral vision are stalkers like the Ceph from Crysis.

[@peposo7]

I could imagine a game like Crysis were instead of an armored soldier, you play using a Splinter Cell agent: crawling and also using vegetation/environment to hide your presence in 1st person!

[@johnyendrey5590]

Mark of the Ninja. Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun. Styx. Thief Simulator. If we wanna look at games with stealth as a primary focus in them: Prey and Receiver 2. We could even throw in Void Bastards if you're feeling generous. Any of Frictional's games could could too (Amnesia/ SOMA) And that's just what's in my library. I think stealth games still have a pulse in the indie market. Fewer titles, but more passion behind them. We are due for a new Thief-like game though.

[@CyborgWolf]

Never been a "fan" of stealth game & yet I remember early 2000s playing the shit out of every stealth game.

[@adzi6164]

hmmm... who remembers the Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun, and the upcoming Desperados III? They are not *typical* stealth *action* games, but, even if they are mechanically RTS games, they have some relatively logical stealth mechanics, and stealth is almost always the way to go.

[@juleswinnfield9097]

I was but a child of 10 when Zelda OoT dropped on N64. And thanks to the Razor's saying of its age I feel an old age senior has swept upon me.

[@johnwenzel2756]

The closest we get to stealth games these days are the immersive sims and I haven't even seen one of them in a while being made

[@spencer7815]

Neon Struct, Styx, and thief simulator are pretty solid stealth games released pretty recently.

[@5persondude]

That clip at the end was pure gold

[@experiment0789]

Rip Garrett from the Theif series (1998 - 2014)

[@TDragonus]

Have you played GTFO, razorfist? It is arguably a co-op stealth game and a really thrilling one at that. Its gameplay hinges on stealth so much that you can't really say its thrown into the list of features but rather is the one feature it is built around. Fantastic game.

[@sheldoncooper8199]

Rule No 2 at Skyrim EVERY character build Eventually Sooner or later turns into a Stealth Assassin Kajiit

[@jonesinator47]

Here’s an idea I think Razorfist would probably enjoy, a stealth game set in WW1

[@TheRageaholic]

A stealth game featuring The Shadow.

[@JackoX901]

​@@TheRageaholic An excellent idea. But only if we can get an exclusive Alec Baldwin skin. Scratch that, probably won't be much left once that grand jury begins flaying it from his bones.

[@elliottvaughn700]

The PS1 game created as a movie tie in for the film "Chicken Run" was all stealth, try it!

[@wariodude128]

I remember years ago when game publishers declared horror games to be "dead". Then, games like Amnesia: The Dark Descent and other such titles became popular and all of a sudden horror games became big again. Hell, Resident Evil 7 was likely made due to indie horror games proving there was a market for it. So if I had to guess, I'd say all we need is for about three or four indie studios to make new and popular stealth games before the rest of the industry wakes up and realizes people want them. Could just be me, though.

[@MaxHarden]

"A Plague Tale: Innocence" is good.

[@joyfuldude4538]

I may not like stealth games but I’ll be glad to say I enjoyed Splinter Cell Conviction. Definitely see why folk like those type of games.

[@merritt2014]

That's why you gotta give respect to 4A games with Metro keeping the Thief style light/dark and sound based stealth alive.

[@wyntr1903]

I actually enjoy the stealth in Metro Exodus. The Skyrim stealth system was far from perfect but a huge improvement over Oblivion's. I could write an essay, but this is just a KZbin comment

[@RaiosSephi]

They are called "Stealth Games" for a reason, Rage.

[@tylerchristensen1484]

The Last of Us and Days Gone make sense that they have stealth mechanics because those games are about taking away the “superhuman power fantasy” and making the character human.

[@J3f3R20n]

There's an indie game in development called Gloomwood, seems like a "tribute" to OG Thief, with sound propagation and all that jazz (Graphics included)...It's promising, but in the same way other "retro-shooters" like Dusk, Amid Evil or Wrath....

[@anaximander66]

"Kingdom Come: Deliverance" is a very underrated stealth game. While it has many approaches its stealth is second to none. I'm every bit of a stealth fan as anyone else too, I've played almost all of them.

[@TheRageaholic]

I agree. And actually, in a roundabout way, Kingdom Come: Deliverance inspired this rant. I actually had a chance to ask the devs - because of how good their stealth system was - if they'd ever consider making a full dedicated stealth game. They laughed and said no. It was in that moment I asked myself the question of why that attitude exists in developer circles.