Where Did Rapture Theology Come From? Ben Witherington III

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Where did Rapture theology come from? In this Seven Minute Seminary, Ben Witherington III explains that Rapture theology and its parent, Dispensationalism, are new ideas that were birthed in 19th century. He continues to work through the history of the belief and explains how it became a popular movement in the United States.
Watch Part II, dealing with the biblical passages on the Rapture, here: • Where Did Rapture Theo...
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[@JamesJohnson-re9zw]

Seedbed Rapture theology came from 1st Thessalonians 4:16-18 . Margaret MacDonald was post Tribulation, read her actual words

[@gregtowle8830]

read 2nd thess , maybe you will find out more. also read ather books in the bible.

[@SpotterVideo]

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. .

[@SpotterVideo]

Genesis of Dispensational Theology kzbin.info/www/bejne/e5aXg4ZrpamhqrM

[@W.451]

@@JamesJohnson-re9zw You are correct. And Darby pronounced her channeling of spirits was demonic. Demonically run people are everywhere lying to people who just take their word for the meaning of a scripture and think they have been scholarly. Even the sermons of early the Church fathers preached the Pre-Trib rapture.

[@jueneturner8331]

I so agree that the "Left behind Theology needs to be left behind". Please Lord, open your people's hearts and minds to your Truth!

[@Michael--12]

Amen.

[@kennethstalley351]

So where do you place Matt 25:10.?

[@jueneturner8331]

I place it with the other parables in chps 24 & 25, describing the End of the Age. I know of no where that it says His Coming Parousia will be a SECRET. ​@kennethstalley351

[@Michael--12]

@@kennethstalley351 ,, Those foolish virgins didn't have enough oil in their lamps ; ( they did not have enough biblical truth sealed in their minds ) , so they will end up believing the rapture lie, and thus will worship satan, the antichrist when he comes claiming to be Jesus returned, really believing that he is Jesus. They quit watching for the true Christ, because they thought He had already come to rapture them away. When the true Christ, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ returns at the last trumpet, he is coming here to the earth, and expecting a virgin bride when he returns. God Himself in Ezekiel chapter 13 KJV, tells us that He is against those that teach His children to fly to save their souls. Why ? Because those being taught that lie, are being led to worship the first Christ to arrive on scene , the antichrist. So the door will be shut, and Jesus will say, " I never knew you, depart from me ye worker of inequity. "

[@EminentSeafarerGIO]

You are brainwashed, no less! Wake up, O sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ shall shine on you! Paul te Apostle said, that he was speaking this "BY THE WORD OF THE LORD" ans NOT hru his own preplanned forecasts! read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 carefully, and may The Lord help you!

[@paulbaxter430]

I belong to a couple of Facebook groups about the rapture (just to see what's going on and to provide some challenging ideas) and I have to say it's horrendous what people are putting themselves through and the hope they have for the rapture. I constantly read people actually saying" Things are so bad, I can't take it anymore, get me out of here, I want the rapture to happen now" It's like a doomsday cult at times, and also another thing that really upsets me is that, while they don't like to call it date setting (high watch days instead) they constantly search and search for the day that the rapture is likely to happen, it's like an addiction where someone says it will be this day, and they all agree and they look for the signs and wait excitedly for that day. Then, when it doesn't happen, they immediately search for the next date. It's frankly awful and very worrying behaviour.

[@Michael--12]

I know, it breaks my heart too. We can only keep praying for them, and when felt led by the Holy Spirit, share biblical truths that disprove the rapture deception.

[@Christmas-dg5xc]

"Things are so bad, I can't take it anymore, get me out of here, I want the rapture to happen now" While the rest of the world is actually trying to build a future, as Christians used to do.

[@leviserafimlevi]

@@Michael--12 The devil liked your comment.

[@Christmas-dg5xc]

@@leviserafimlevi You mean that in the past God had wanted Christians to believe they wouldn't be living out their lives when he *knew* it wasn't going to be so?

[@leviserafimlevi]

Facebook? You are looking in all the wrong places. By now you have to unlearn everything and start anew with the Bible.

[@DavidNoach65]

I’ve struggled with Rapture, having gone back and forth. What I do know, which upsets most people solidly into Rapture, is at some point we will have to go through some sort of persecution or other distress even if we are caught up. I live in the US. People are soft. Forgetting the discussion for a moment, I believe many believe in Rapture as a promise to escape the hard times ahead. If we go up, great. If not, we will have some degree of protection from our God and the strength to endure.

[@nickma71]

9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him....Paul is speaking of Jacob's trouble, called "Tribulation" in Matthew 24.

[@trallfraz]

best explaination I've heard yet!!!@@nickma71

[@aubrey1008]

AMEN!@@nickma71

[@nickma71]

@@aubrey1008 Translation problems don't help. There are 2 very different meanings for the word "faith". And Apostasy is often wrong too. It means to leave a place, to depart. Not change your mind. The man of sin is not revealed until the departure of the church.

[@sarahchan5604]

To understand rapture :please read :1Corinthians 15: 50- 58, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, rapture will be happened after seventh trumpet was blown . When rapture happens, Christians will be up in air and meet Jesus Christ then stay with Him forever.Second coming of Christ is : Christ will land on Mount of Olive,that will happen after seven bowls of wrath were thrown to earth and will be on a latter date than rapture, When the seven bowls of wrath were thrown, Christians were raptured already and will not suffer from the bowls of wrath from the Lord

[@DarkPaladin1130]

People just LOVE to complicate things. Just keep focus on Jesus. What happens, happens. I dont know if we are in the end times or not, Im right now just trying to live to Jesus teachings and hopefully when I die, Jesus has mercy on me.

[@kazer4040]

And have that relationship with Jesus too. Knowing that Jesus has forgiven us and we have His grace.

[@jeph33]

Not complicated, and I don't hear any preparation in 'what happens, happens'. You best take a serious look @ Scripture. Do you see what's happening?? Look at 2 Timothy ch. 3, then look around you. Or what Jesus said: Because iniquity is increased, 'the love of many grows cold' See Matthew ch. 24, 2 Peter 3. As Jesus says, Be on the alert, for MANY false prophets will arise, and deceive MANY. Are you deceived?

[@BT3701]

Ask yourself this question; Did you first learn about the pre-tribulation rapture through reading the Bible, or through some preacher or book author? Any NORMAL person simply left alone to read the Bible would never come away from it seeing any pre-tribulation rapture theology.

[@graceambassador65]

Grace And Peace, BT. Actually, I am ABnormal, because I have "left ALL religions," and now am "simply Left ALONE With *God's Holy Word, And The **_Teacher!_** (1 Corinthians 2 : 13 KJB!)* Now, Exactly HOW is it that, *After Prayerful/Careful Examination Of ALL Of God's **_Evidence,_* I "would NEVER come away," with: *Great GRACE PRE-TOJT Departure!* {aka rapture}? {see "Previous Post" to Mary} God Bless! Saint Christopher

[@yqafree]

Dispensationalism came from theosophy!

[@keithstewart934]

@@mimisgirls1 Some of Christ's first words in the Olivet Discourse are, "...see to it that no one deceive you...".

[@InLivingWater]

Mary Nunnally Jesus spoke in parables... indeed it is a mystery... there is no mystery or hope in a post tribulation rapture... how is it that the Thessalonians thought they missed it if Paul taught them it was at the very end. Besides it is a custom for the bridegroom to go away and build a place fire his bride... and then to come back unexpectedly with the blowing off the shofar... also the harvest cycle is clear picture of how the Father will harvest his people from the field...

[@shanerishell2761]

Amen, Ezekiel 13:17 says the God is against the false teachers that teach his children to fly to save their souls. The 7th Trump is called his 2nd coming, His birth was his first coming.

[@marksantostefano1637]

I was brought up in this theology in the late 60s when I became a Christian through the Jesus movement. Everyone I knew seemed to carry a Schofield Bible and all the discussions about eschatology came from the Schofield notes. But I began to wonder about this teaching, as I simply read the Bible and saw that what was being taught, wasn’t necessarily what the Bible actually said. It wasn’t till I went to seminary, Gorden - Conwell, And learned hermeneutics and exegesis, that I was able to simply let the text speak for its self, without coming to it, and forcing presuppositions on it. Unfortunately, I see this false theology, becoming more and more popular with Christians today as the times get more evil. I think Christians love the idea of not having to suffer and not having to go through tribulation. But this has never been God’s pattern throughout the history of his people.

[@dixiesedgwick89]

So true, that's right.

[@KJKP]

I never read notes. I never read the subtitles. They all attempt to usurp our relationship with the Holy Spirit. He teaches us. Not some man’s notes. * The problem with the teaching in the video is that he relates it as if it all transpired as random events, ,chance. Really, the men involved are satanists. Everything they did, they plotted. It is possible the story about the little girl’s dream is also fabricated.

[@Orange6921]

Mark, rapture theology and pre minimalism are extremely well documented to have been around for the entire church age. People have got to stop trying to pretend they are modern or late theologies when we have so many documented examples of these things in the early church fathers. In fact the early chruch in the first 2-3 centuries was UNIVERSALLY pre millennial and much more in line with that wing of eschatology then you are apparently aware. There were varying views on the exact timing of the rapture but not so much on most eschatological views. Christians have been suffering for 2000 years, Christians have dealt with persecution and suffering for the entire Church age. Its never stopped, its just varied based on where you lived. The notion that Christians would rather escape suffering has been a universal with of all Christians for 2000 years. The only people who desire special suffering and persecution are those who have far deeper issues that just how they read the Bible. What your view really espouses is a SPECIAL suffering just for the last generation of saved Christians that the previous 2000 years did not have to experience. If they are already saved by faith and do not have to "earn" salvation as the gospel teaches, then why would they have to go through a special testing the previous generations did not? Otherwise you are just arguing for the same persecution Christians have endured for the last 2000 years.

[@williamward9278]

except that the church is the bride of Christ. The church is not mentioned in Revelation after chapter 4 until chapter 19. In His Olivet discourse Matthew 24:40 Jesus said 1 will be taken and the other left. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ SHALL rise first. 17 Then we which are alive and remain SHALL be caught up together (raptured) with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. No interpretation needed, it is VERY plain. Revelation 4:1 Jesus told the apostle John to "come up here" and I will show you what MUST take place. In the OT Enoch was raptured, Elijah was raptured. Revelation 3:10 tells us that we will be saved from God's wrath which will come upon the whole world. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath. JESUS WILL NOT BEAT UP HIS BRIDE BEFORE HE COMES FOR HER!! That is simple logic. Good day and God bless!!

[@williamward9278]

@@Orange6921 AMEN, AMEN and AMEN!!

[@7nflgirl]

The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.

[@jimunderwood9801]

And?

[@jeph33]

Good. Parousia?

[@frankgordon8829]

I found Christ in the early 70s in California when I was in the military. I had no car, so I was at the mercy of other Christians who did. So, I visited the Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa & embraced the rapture theology. The more mature in the Lord I became & the more I read scripture I questioned a lot of what I was taught. Against the tide of what was popular, I changed my direction into a more realistic, grounded in scripture Eschatology.

[@sammygomes7381]

Christ told us what it would be like when He returned, like the days of Noah. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, Mat.24:38. It sounds like life as normal. I am not sure about you, but when I read about the tribulation life is anything but normal with a good percentage of the population being taken killed I doubt life is normal. I'll stick with the rapture.

[@mkovis8587]

IDK what this video claimed, probably something about Darby starting the rapture thing... But pre-trib rapture was part of the early church teachings; check "Explosive Pretrib Info - Irenaeus Was Pretrib - Irenaeus Linked to the Apostles - KZbin"

[@sammygomes7381]

@@mkovis8587 Paul speaks to the church who thought they missed the rapture, not to mention Christ gave the apostles hints that they did not understand at the time.

[@AdventureSMBW]

I love Calvary Chapel, but that is their biggest doctrinal blunder for sure.

[@W.451]

@@mkovis8587 Polycarps writings says he was taught by Apostl John the pre-trib and more wrtings recently found in the old archives and being translated say more on that. Polycarp was Johns student and co-minister fro the last 20 years of Johns life. Funny how all this is avoided by some "teachers" Scroll down through these resources. www.youtube.com/@prophecywatchers/search?query=rapture

[@markschneider8103]

You stated that “only a minority of Protestants have embraced this theology”. Wow, my experience is that many in America embrace it.

[@rickdalbey6009]

Witherington is not accurate about many things. Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD. On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist. In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation. Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine. Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776) Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.

[@markschneider8103]

@@rickdalbey6009 While I truly appreciate your research on this topic. I simply cannot find proof in scripture that: Jesus will descend from heaven to the clouds above the earth, rapture his church to himself. Reverse direction, and take the church to heaven for seven years while tribulation plays out on earth. And then after seven years Christ returns to earth with the Church. Then sets up his millennial kingdom on earth. Scripture is clear, Christ will return one time, at his physical second coming. Nowhere in scripture are told to expect Jesus to appear twice. God Bless You Brother !

[@rickdalbey6009]

@@markschneider8103 The Harpazo, the "snatching away" is a coming for Christians only. Jesus does not set foot on earth, instead we are caught up in the clouds to meet Him in the air and proceed on to heaven as 1st Thessalonians teaches. This is the thief in the night, the silent burglar who comes in the window and removes the valuables before anyone notices. When that which restrains is removed (spirit filled Christians, the Church) evil escalates rapidly during a 7 year period. The wrath of the lamb is visited on the earth. Christians do not undergo the wrath of the Lamb. God pivots to revive Israel. Finally at the great world war of Armageddon Jesus returns to earth with his saints and He stays on earth to rule. This time He is not a thief in the night but every eye can see him. This what the early church fathers Until Augustine who treated the book of revelation as Metaphorical instead of future history. With the reformation, truth was restored and this is now what most evangelicals believe and teach, including most Baptists, Assembly of God, etc.

[@marcusonesimus3400]

Yes, but the USA accounts for about 5 percent of the world's population, and despite the wealth of its megachurches it is only one among several countries or regions where Christianity exerts powerful influence. It could also be that Christians who advance this theology also tend to be quite vocal in expressing their views. I happen to be quite vocal online, and i was once accused of promoting Dispensationalism when I was doing nothing of the kind. I live next door to the US, and in the churches I've known well the subject is never mentioned. However i do hear Christ's Second Coming mentioned every Sunday. Now isn't that curious?

[@framboise595]

@@marcusonesimus3400 Christ said that HIS generation would see his coming. He did say that in his Olivet discourse. So , whether Jesus is a liar or we have to seriously reconsider our eschatology . In Revelation , when adressing the sevan Asian churches , he said that he WAS coming SOON. That the time was NEAR and John was told not to seal the prophecies of the book contrary to Daniel who was told to seal them because the time was NOT yet. What on earth do words mean ? Nothing ? Soon does not mean soon , near does not mean near , at hand does not mean at hand ? So , why are those words used ?

[@pathumus8093]

I totally agree. No where in the Bible states that Christ returns twice after the resurrection.

[@jennijones1532]

Jesus returns once. After the Battle of Armageddon. The two raptures are not to be mixed up with Jesus returning to earth to clean it up. He does this after ALL things are fulfilled. With the two raptures the bride of Christ goes up. When Jesus returns He comes down to earth to clean it up. This is after the reign of the AC and God's wrath.

[@oz9680]

Jesus came first as the lamb of God.And he will come again as the conquering lion of Judae.But before he does he will come in the air and those who have bern watching and ready will be caught up to meet him in the twinkling of an eye after the saints that are sleeping go up to meet him. firstThis is not considered the second coming.Rememberthe parable of the 7 wise and 7 foolish virgins this.When Jesus appears in the second coming he will have the saints that were raised in the twinkle of an eye. The bible say unless we are like children will shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven.I believe it is real and if it doesn't happen we will be going through it just like if i didn't believe.So Believing and being ready for the best and preparing for the worst.

[@HarpazoReady2022]

Jesus' first coming ON EARTH was his birth. Jesus' second coming ON EARTH will be at the end of the 7-year Tribulation. The rapture happens in between these events - in the AIR in the CLOUDS. Not on earth. That's what Jesus revealed to Paul in his letters. Daniel 9:24 tells us WHO the 7-year Tribulation is for and WHY. It reads: "Seventy weeks are determined for thy people." God is talking to Daniel. Who are Daniel's people? The Jews. Daniel was Jewish. Gentiles weren't Daniel's people. The church did not exist in the Old Testament. There are zero Old Testament prophecies for the Church. This seventy weeks is an everlasting prophecy still sitting out there. It hasn't happened yet. But it will for Israel to fulfill this prophecy. The church will be gone. God Bless

[@richardwooten7657]

YOU ARE BELIEVING I LIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RESEARCH YOUR RESEARCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Genexus8]

If people understood Matthew 25 they would understand when the door is shut it's shut no one can enter in afterwards. If they understand this one thing then they'll understand it contradicts any notion of a pretrib rapture. Further more if we look at the harvest and what the scriptures say about it then we should all conclude that evil is what's taken out of the way we are left behind. This is why I hold psalm 37 close to my heart. Anyhow liked what you had to say in your comment totally agree.

[@mordecaialivanallenoshea7532]

I went to a Christian school from 5th - 12th. I always got in trouble by questioning the pre-trib rapture. Even churches I've been a member of viewed me as a trouble maker for doubting it.

[@misha-elministries5246]

The phase pre-trib should be pre-wrath. Jesus said . (And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 The bible says (For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.) Do not be left behind! Ben Witherington is mistaken.

[@Captain7484]

If you read Revelation, you find that this "Rapture" that is spoken of is referring to what happens when Jesus comes back. We will be Raptured with him in the Clouds and will be with him as he Descends to the Mount of Olives and proceeds to do battle in the Valley of Megeddo (I hope I spelled that correct)..... The thing about the Pre-Trib Rapture theology that always baffled me was that this was inconsistent with the way in which God has operated through history, this includes the persecution of the church. I saw no reason or indication in scripture that would indicate that all of a sudden, God would change is approach to allowing the church to endure persecution for Christ's sake and in order to ensure our sacrifices are used to draw the unsaved to Himself. Again, God's desire, according to scripture, is that none should perish but that all would come to have knowledge of Him and follow Him. @@misha-elministries5246

[@K-ManTheHebrew]

@@misha-elministries5246 Pre-rapture LIARS and DECEIVERS, you all will pay a very high price for your FALSE TEACHINGS...There is no such thing as a pre-rapture crap, child of satan. When you READ and COMPREHEND The Word of The Most High, the word "AFTER" is present in the events. The "AFTER, AFTER, AFTER" appears then The King and Saviour will appear. The King of Kings will not be coming 3 times. Only twice will he appear, Once, to be the ultimate scarifice and once to bring final judgement upon these worlds or countries. LIAR and DECEIVER...There is no such thing as a pre-rapture crap, child of satan. When you READ and COMPREHEND The Word of The Most High, the word "AFTER" is present in the events. The "AFTER, AFTER, AFTER" appears then The King and Saviour will appear. The King of Kings will not be coming 3 times. Only twice will he appear, Once, to be the ultimate scarifice and once to bring final judgement upon these worlds or countries.

[@UncleLincoln]

Yes but that is after all the plagues that god brings to the earth . Just like in egypt but we have the blood of jesus on us instead of on the door like in exodus

[@housemorgan4668]

I first learned of pre trib rapture from other believers/preachers. I never saw it in scripture. Read scripture and let scripture teach you…not some man. I believe we go thru the tribulation. Just read the 7 letters to the 7 churches….repeating them in the letters says to endure…endure….endure. So we must endure thru suffering. Stay prayed up.

[@rickcasual]

Christ himself in Rev 3:10 says the church of Philidalphia will be kept from the hour of temptation. Paul says in 1 Thess 5:9 that we are not meant for wrath. 1 Thess 4:16-17 speaks to the direct event. You cant honestly say the language is not there.

[@strongbada.4709]

I remember at a previous church questioning pre-trib rapture and my pastor was like “you’re just confused”. I was like, I’m not confused, I’m just reading the Bible and saying I’m not so sure it says what you say it says. He didn’t want to hear it. Needless to say, years later I left over something way more serious than differences in eschatology.

[@darnellpistachio2991]

Isnt much worse than incorrect eschatology to an end times individual.

[@lionheartmerrill1069]

@ StrongBad A I get "you're just confused" all over YT pretrib rapture channels. I try to plant seeds of Biblical Truth to these people but we're dealing with people who have been a spirit of strong delusion. My sister many years ago approached Hal Lindsey to question his nonsense, got in a few words before he told his people to escort her out of the building.

[@t-bonet-bone713]

@@lionheartmerrill1069 Wow! Hal Lindsay. That’s a blast from the past. That must have been in the 70’s?

[@samueljennings4809]

Unless the Pastor was taking his congregation into a very dangerous direction either regarding or fundamental doctrine or into cult-like activity.

[@williamward9278]

SO you think that Jesus will beat up His bride before He comes for her?

[@dreamgina]

Irenaeus, a second century author wrote of the rapture. The second century church fathers were teaching the rapture. The NT writings were written in greek. The Greek word harpazo translates to rapturo in Latin and means “caught up”

[@michelle1078]

Thank you!

[@francotenor]

Truth

[@ibperson7765]

Well this comment varies dramatically from what the video said

[@mcgeorgerl]

Would you please provide citations regarding which Early Church Fathers from any era who wrote about a pre-tribulation removal of saints? If you cannot, why assert such a thing as you have done in your first two sentences?

[@rayhill5767]

Hmmm but still no Rapture. Good luck with that

[@garryperrin2408]

I have abandoned this belief in recent years. This video explains so much of my biblical (mis)understanding since the late 70’s. For instance, the Rapture, Plymouth Brethren, Moody Bible Institute and the plethora of preachers on Moody Bible. Also, Ryrie study bible. Steeped in all until abt 3 yrs ago.

[@redfrozenseven]

Where did you go from there? I agree, I really like GK Beale, Sam Storms, Sam Waldron

[@maxxomega6599]

Ah yes....the Rapture argument again. When I got saved, I was 22 years old. I was taught about the Rapture. I was terrified I would miss it due to my shortcomings and was also terrified I wouldn't live up to expectations of living in the Tribulation. But.....that was then, now I am almost 70 years old. Time is passing me by, and it is getting late. What does it matter to me at all if there be any rapture? How much longer will I live anyway? 10 years? 20 years? 2 weeks? If I die tomorrow, praise Jesus, I will be with him and won't worry about anything anymore anyway...

[@jmcdowell1972]

I feel like Matthew 24 sums up everything nicely. As far as the rapture goes - versus 40-41 describes some will be taken and some will be left.

[@K-ManTheHebrew]

@@jmcdowell1972 Pre-rapture LIARS and DECEIVERS, you all will pay a very high price for your FALSE TEACHINGS...There is no such thing as a pre-rapture crap, child of satan. When you READ and COMPREHEND The Word of The Most High, the word "AFTER" is present in the events. The "AFTER, AFTER, AFTER" appears then The King and Saviour will appear. The King of Kings will not be coming 3 times. Only twice will he appear, Once, to be the ultimate scarifice and once to bring final judgement upon these worlds or countries. LIAR and DECEIVER...There is no such thing as a pre-rapture crap, child of satan. When you READ and COMPREHEND The Word of The Most High, the word "AFTER" is present in the events. The "AFTER, AFTER, AFTER" appears then The King and Saviour will appear. The King of Kings will not be coming 3 times. Only twice will he appear, Once, to be the ultimate scarifice and once to bring final judgement upon these worlds or countries.

[@marykathaight4948]

@@jmcdowell1972 Maybe we aren't the ones taken. Maybe it's the evil ones

[@halfulford3081]

Exactly the left behind theology needs to be left behind.

[@icypirate11]

The _Left Behind Series_ is an embarrassment to the Church. The world is laughing at us now and I believe it's led people astray.

[@margiechism]

PREACH...I am having to learn what harpazo fully means. I get "caught up" when someone even drives in my driveway, or get snatched taken from my work if I receive a delivery at my front door. There will be a loud sound, a great Earthquake, the dead in Christ will Resurrect, and that is a catching; and the Remainers in Christ will be changed at Jesus's arrival with his Army to wage War with the Nations and their Armies. The Supper is fowl eatting all the Flesh of Jesus's enemies. Revelation Chapter 19 plainly states and supports Book of Daniel to and through Revelation.

[@SteveWV]

Indeed pre-tribulation Rapture and the dispensationalist view is a lie. Even back in Abraham's time for example it says Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness there's several areas throughout the Bible especially in the New Testament where it talks about this. There's no dispensationalism as it is preached among many today

[@thelionofjudah77u82]

@@SteveWV But now we believe in Jesus to be saved as Abraham did not know the name of our Lord Jesus. How can one not believe in dispensation when the word is used by Paul several times

[@thelionofjudah77u82]

@@SteveWV and no the pretrib rapture is not a lie

[@PeterGarofalo]

Hallelujah , more need to hear this. Corrie Ten Boom found the chinese church suffering unprepared because american evangelists had told them they would escape tribulation. She spent her years helping churches prepare for tribulation & Praise God the Chinese church are growing, suffering & ready. Thank God for this brother explaining..

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

Corrie Ten Boom said that some preachers told the Chinese they would be raptured before being harmed, but that's NOT the pre-trib rapture doctrine. The actual pre-trib doctrine says the church will be raptured before the 7-Year Tribulation not before tribulation. And she would have had that straw man understanding in her head because she was taught by Calvinists. What Corrie Ten Boom described was the post-trib straw man version of the pre-trib doctrine in which the church will not suffer tribulation, but that conflates tribulation with the 7-Year Tribulation. To be clear, pre-tribers know that Jesus said the church would have tribulation and it has had, but the church will be raptured before the 7-Year Tribulation.

[@thelionofjudah77u82]

@@biblehistoryscience3530 Jesus said no such thing as the church going thru tribulation. Scripture please. We are not appointed to wrath but salvation thru Christ Jesus. The 7 year tribulation is wrath. All 7 years

[@thelionofjudah77u82]

There is no preparation for going thru tribulation. How do you prepare for pestilence, famine, massive earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and tsunamis? There is no tribulation for the church.

[@jasonwolfe920]

@@thelionofjudah77u82 SEPERATING THE FINAL 7 YEARS FROM THE 70 WEEK PROPHECY OF DANIEL 9:24-27 IS UNSOUND EXEGESIS & ABSOLUTELY UNBIBLICAL...& YET THE MAJORITY BELIEVE IT...SO THIS MAN IS RIGHT,"IF ITS NEW IT CANT BE TRUE!..."THIS METHOD OF PROPHETIC INTERPRETATION WAS WHOLLY UNKNOWN FOR 18 CENTURIES...IT IS A JESUIT CONSTRUCT INTENDED TO MUTE THE TRUTH THAT THE PROTESTANT REFORMERS WERE PREACHING...THAT ROME IS ANTI-CHRIST...JUST AS MARTIN LUTHER,(& ALL OF THE OTHER PROTESTANT REFORMERS,)TESTIFIED...

[@jasonwolfe920]

THE MOST SIGNIFICANT REASON I MUST REJECT DISPENSATIONALISM/FUTURISM IS BECAUSE OF "WHY" IT WAS DEVELOPED & CAME INTO EXISTENCE...AFTER THE COUNCIL OF TRENT,(1546-1563,)IT WAS DETERMINED BY THE PAPAL HEIRARCHY THAT THE JESUITS WOULD BE COMMISSIONED TO INVENT NEW FORMS OF PROPHETIC INTERPRETATION,(IN ORDER TO LEAD PROTESTANTS AWAY FROM THEIR "HISTORICIST" CONCLUSIONS ABOUT ROME BEING ANTI-CHRIST...)SO THE JESUIT ALCAZAR INVENTED PRAETERISM & THE JESUIT RIBERA INVENTED FUTURISM...THIS IS THE TRUE ORIGINATION POINT OF THE DISPENSATIONALISM/FUTURISM OF TODAY...IT WAS INVENTED AS A MEANS OF MISLEADING & DECEIVING PROTESTANTS...FOR EVERYTHING GOD HAS,SATAN HAS A VERY CLOSELY CRAFTED COUNTERFEIT...

[@sarahfaith6531]

Thank you so much for talking about this!

[@KB-xt3cp]

Mr. Witherington, I have looked and looked at Matthew 24 and 1 Thess 4 in the Schofield Bible and cannot find the heading "Jesus Predicts the Rapture" in any of the editions I have researched. Could you please direct me to the page in the Schofield Bible that says that? This is important for me. Thank you. Ken

[@leefury7]

For those who argue that pretrib rapturism is a bane on the church because its natural child is inactivity, (2 Thes 3:10), you need to take a closer look at the teachings and life of Paul (and Peter). Because of the disciples living with the expectancy of the imminent return of Christ, (even Peter believed this though he also clearly understood he was going to die first) it encouraged them on to greater works so as not be made ashamed at His sudden coming. "Work while it is yet called day." All of this debate can be traced back to Origen and Augustine's implementing his hermeneutic. An immeasurable injustice has taken place all down through history to the Jews because of it both in the RC as well as many Reformational churches. Is it any wonder so many dispatch dispensationalism off hand when they believe the Church has replaced Israel in the economy of God? The first 69 wks of Daniel's prophecy were oriented toward and fulfilled entirely by national Israel. Why then should we dismiss the 70th week or even include in the Church Age? (saying it occurred in 70AD. SMH) Like the first 69 wks, the 70th week exclusively involves God's purification of national Israel to where they accept Jesus as the long promised Messiah who come to setup His sovereign rule in Jerusalem for 1000 yrs. We, the Church, are not appointed unto wrath. (Rom 8:1) Rev 6-19 is the outplaying of the wrath of God on the ungodly, even Israel when 2/3rd of Israel is killed. Eschatological doctrine is gleaned from ALL scripture, not a verse here or a verse there. And it is understood in context. Therefore Mt 25 does NOT include the Church. Christ is answering the specific question of the disciples in regards to God's promises made to Israel being fulfilled. i.e. establishment of the Davidic Kingdom rule

[@wowmomjls]

Well said!!! Maranatha!!!

[@yafois988]

LOL, you're a false prophet failing in your catholic logic to interpret Hebraic scriptures with a satanic WORN OUT rhetoric pre-canned script. NO We did NOT once even claim Christ returns before the fall feasts then the Jewish wedding CLEARLY demonstrate the LOUD Final herald TRUMP at the very "hours and DAY" the Bride thinks NOT he will show JUST like a man does to the WOMAN on earth WELL know aways have. A Loud final TRUMP to CALL her to HOM!! See you can't EVEN get that one point correct whatsoever! It's In the DARK then "bride" is called, the ones that is ALL whom graft INTO the TZEMACK Root Christ. He said NOBODY including his own countrymen 12 tribes, Get to YHVH Unless they go thru HIM First! Thus ALL Nations as YHVH prophesied to Abraham "MANY NATIONS" means ALL on earth NOT just jews, Which ARE part of this prophetic Bride collective!! AKA N"Israel" which is a Nation NOT a dirt floor rock mountain element land mass! It certainly does NOT show it you have ANY real understanding of whom or WHAT Israel is. . I Just slaughtered your heresy Perry stone satanic Lies AGAIN!! ALL the prophets before the 1st century Clearly spoke about the Jewish wedding event and Daniels 1335 days is 45 longer then Joels 3 /2 years or 1290 days OR Time TIMES and Half a TIMES ", etc etc. The return is in the Darkness of the WRA under Armageddon. THEN Yeshua takes HIS bride" off earth to Administer WRATH Upon earth and destroy the evil doers. THATS the ONY time humans leave too escape when HE administers his WRATH targeted for the evil ones NOT his Bride. Good grief will you ppl EVER learn what the Bible actually DOES say?? Removing his For the 1/24 of a year = 15 days when HALF that equals the ONE Hour of a half hour of SILENCE like it clearly says. Revelation 8:1 says this!! When the 7-Days Jewish feast occurs so he silences everything after he destroys earth once and for all. You're as ignorant of the scriptures as it gets!

[@amyparker4538]

Thank you!!! Christians lean toward thinking it is ALL about the church & completely dismiss Israel. They miss the heart of the story & the apple of God’s eye. This is what happens when you interpret the Bible through your own eyes & not God’s eyes.

[@josephd2059]

Well put, their issue is they cannot distinguish between Israel and the Church. It is their sloppy study of the Bible and and false doctrine of replacement theology that is the source of this position they take. They always say that the Church never taught this doctrine before as their main point. They have a weak position when held up to scripture.

[@leefury7]

@@josephd2059 Recent discoveries had shown, while dispensationalism was never systematically developed until mid 1600's, pretrib rapturism is documented in the 2nd and 3rd C. You cannot say that about the other schools which did not begin to develope until mid to late 400's.

[@ChoznandBeloved]

I grew up in a church that taught the rapture was true. Even as a teenager, whenever they taught from the scriptures that supposedly supported that idea, I was never convinced that was what the scripture meant. I’d see so many heads nodding in agreement around me as they listened to the preacher and I’d be sitting there, looking at my bible thinking, how did he extrapolate that from this? When I’d discuss my concerns with others in the fellowship, they’d use the man’s extensive theological training at seminary as the support for why he was right… which is NOT a reason to support anyone’s doctrine.

[@williamward9278]

those nodding heads were correct. Satan has deceived you

[@G1stGBless]

The head nodding in this comment section is very much bc they believe Dr Witheringtons theological bonafides. It literally what you described in reverse application.

[@censured-again]

Not much different than bill gates being knowledgeable about health.

[@trallfraz]

in all these 'comments' I've not heard any verses or facts to contradict the pre-trib 'rapture'

[@williamward9278]

@@trallfraz you won't because the pre-trib rapture is FACT

[@777whitestone]

After I came to Christ in the 90ths I read the Bible and came alone to the truth of the rapture. Without any theology, simply through reading the Bible. Nobody could unterstand me at this time.

[@awoj51]

Read Kafka. Better nonsense than bible.

[@rickcasual]

Exactly, i dont know where these people get off pretending rapture scripture doesnt exist. When you find the question presented on catholic answers from 1 Thess 16-17, they immediately refer to the catechism and talk about how it could just mean we rush to meet Christ when he returns. Only satan would have you reject and twist the word.

[@marieeab01]

@@rickcasual The ‘We who are alive and remain’ in 1 Thes 4:15… speaks to me of those left standing, meaning those who have not been martyred before Christs coming, those who have managed to hang on through great persecution and are looking up eagerly for their redemption. Is it your belief that the dead will also be raised in a pre tribulation rapture?

[@Spirit-Truth53]

Thank you‼️Please keep speaking His Truth--The Word🙌

[@lilacook921]

Thank you brother ! I have always questioned why we Christians should get out of the tribulation when the early church martyrs had to give their lives for Christ Jesus ❤️ and ✝️🛐 s

[@rickdalbey6009]

Ben Witherington is wrong is dating the rapture to an 1820 date. Consider Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD. On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist. In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation. Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine. Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776) Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.

[@franklatona2667]

I completely agree with you. Jesus was beaten to a bloody pulp and nailed to a cross FOR US I believe it's an honor to suffer for him I don't think there's a rapture but if there is I'm NOT going I'll stay and suffer and who cares if they kill us

[@herbzah5405]

Me too

[@rickdalbey6009]

@@herbzah5405 Because it is called the "Great Tribulation. It is not local persecution, not Roman persecution. A tribulation that has never been seen before. World-wide. Matt. 24:21 "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now-and never to be equaled again.“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. " In fact it is called the "wrath of the lamb" and the world is pelted with asteroids that kill 1/4 of the population of the world. That is 2 billion people. The seas are poisoned, a world wide earthquake happens. No earlier tribulation even compares. That is why the church is snatched up or Harpozed.

[@eekay5710]

@@rickdalbey6009 The great tribulation was for the people of Israel only.

[@AshFoxx]

Finally... someone else that "gets it..." Thanks for sharing. ✌

[@UN1VERS3S]

Rapture doctrine = Blueprint for cults Rapture brainwashes people, that there is no future in this world. They instill fear on their members. Uses the doctrine to think lowly of others. Removes hope and happiness. They use scriptures out of the context, twist and pervert it to mean that a person's life here should be focused on making it to heaven. Infact it's all about loving, enjoying and being free! Stop Fundamentalist Conservative Christianity! I'm a victim and I know how hard it is. I learned about it only through online. What more for the people who grew up with these doctrines being fed on them? It seeps the life out of someone! It steals, kills and destroys! God bless us all!❤️🕊️

[@debramichigan1356]

@seedbed I’ve listened to several (from Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Protestant and non-denominational teachers and preachers), but this is best and most succinct explanation and debunking of the idea of rapture (as invented by Darby). Thank you

[@Seedbed]

We aim for clarity as well as brevity! :) We're glad you found it helpful.

[@leftrevolution7]

I too am studying the end of days, with the focus on studying. And by what I have found so far, I haven't found anything that supports the rapture. With this study, several matters came to surface, which did not gave me the thought of where the rapture theology originated from. This explanation really helps and do confirm what I have found so far (I am not finished with my study, not even close).

[@casey8726]

Do you read the Bible in your study of the end of days? The event of the rapture is in the NT. A couple of times

[@leftrevolution7]

​@@casey8726 No, it is not. As what is explained, there are interpretations of the original word of God that wants to confirm the rapture. Another happening that does not support the rapture; When the children of Israel lived in Egypt and were in the same land that was plagued by God. The final plague, the children of Israel were not protected. Only when blood of the lamb was smeared on the doorposts, the first born would not be killed by God. In the OT, there are at least two persons that went to heaven, while being alive; Henoch and Elijah. Two persons, not a crowd of people, or a group of people. Also, God gave ten tribes away. What the children of God have endured, during the OT, does not show any moment where God took away his people, due to extreme danger, warfare or bloodshed in the land of Israel or thru out the land of Israel. It shows actually quite the opposite. A good example is the 40 years, dwelling in the desert because the children of Israel did not believe that they could take the land that was promised to Abraham.

[@casey8726]

@@leftrevolution7 Did you read the Bible in your study of the end times? Its in the NT, actually, three times. Please don't call me wrong, when you are wrong

[@casey8726]

@@leftrevolution7 duh I Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 14-18 duh

[@leftrevolution7]

@@casey8726 Try not to convince me, you are not the author as I am not the author. If you believe in the rapture, then believe it, I won't stop you nor convince you. Reading the bible is the only way, however, it is the Holy Spirit that reveals. Because the word of God is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

[@graceambassador65]

Better to be a diligent student of *1st Century SCRIPTURE!* than 19-21st century sayings of men! Amen?

[@Dullbot]

Either understand the systematizing of doctrine in history, or get ready to discard your Trinitarianism and Covenant Theology as well.

[@ChaplainBobWalkerBTh]

WHEN IS THE RAPTURE / RESURRECTION? In Revelation 20:4-6 the last book of the Bible there are only 2 more FUTURE Resurrections (Raptures) spoken of: (after the 2 witnesses appear) 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION. or rapture 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the SECOND DEATH hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. In the above scriptures, these are the Martyrs. John said "this is the first resurrection." John didn't say this is the "second phase of the first resurrection," as pre-tribbers claim. If this is the FIRST resurrection, can there be a resurrection before this one? Of course not, unless you want to ADD to the bible which is forbidden! The First Resurrection is of the dead in Christ and the Second is after 1000 years. Paul wrote that the Dead in Christ MUST rise FIRST, THEN we who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 ...and the dead in Christ shall RISE FIRST 17 THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them... In Rev. 20:4-5, John sees the souls of Saints who were BEHEADED for refusing the Mark of the Antichrist during the Great Tribulation. John writes that they will rise and reign with Christ for 1000 years and that this is the FIRST RESURRECTION! If according to John, the beheaded rise in the FIRST resurrection and Paul said those who are alive and remain are not caught up until AFTER the dead in Christ are resurrected, then this means the catching up or rapture takes place AFTER tribulation! Now compare the above with 1 CORINTHIANS 15:20-23: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of those who slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first-fruits; AFTERWARDS THOSE WHO ARE CHRIST'S AT HIS COMING. Notice only one resurrection of the dead in Christ is mentioned here! Which, according to Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 must take place BEFORE we who are alive and remain are "caught up" with them! When did Jesus say the dead in Christ would be resurrected? John 6:39-40: Jesus said, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up ON THE LAST DAY. John 6:44: Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY." Is the LAST DAY the thousand year reign of Christ? I believe so....then it is eternity and time is counted no more So if Jesus himself said the dead in Christ will be raised on the LAST DAY, and Paul said we who are alive and remain will not be caught up (raptured) until AFTER the dead are raised, then where does secret pre-trib rapture fit in? Paul in 1 Cor 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. We are changed at the LAST TRUMP and where is this found? Revelation 8:2 - And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. Revelation 8:6 - And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. In REVELATION, the LAST BOOK of the Bible there are 7 trumps and the 7th trump is the LAST ONE and is at the end of the tribulation

[@scwheeler24]

Chaplain Bob Walker B. Th. You wrote quite a bit there it would take a lot of typing to answer all your questions. I’ll point to 2. One is the Great Tribulation already happened in 70 AD just as Christ predicted. An event like no other to ever happen like it again. Revelations is now dated to have been written around 68 AD not after 79AD as previously dated. Most of the book was written to those churches at THAT time. Wouldn’t that make sense? There is no secret rapture only CHrists return on the last day in judgment and to restore the earth back to EDen where we will live eternity here, not in heaven

[@ayekaye8055]

Cheeky Nonconformist preach

[@W.451]

@@scwheeler24 You're listening to cults.

[@Habanero212]

Ultimately is believing in the rapture or not a necessary element for salvation? I say no. Then let's agree to disagree but remain loving each other and caring for each other. And stay studying and worshiping our God! Much love to all.

[@deanhil3978]

Daniel, gives a perfect sequence of events. Thank you for telling it the way it is. Coming from one who has experienced a faith failure, its hard to comprehend what could possibly happen to ones faith when they realise that tribulation has begun, and they are here to witness it.. May His will be done, and may these days be shortened. May His peace, be your closest companion!

[@G1stGBless]

It would change nothing in my faith to be wrong. I’m fully capable of being wrong and God will always be right and worthy of our praise regardless. However I see absolutely no reason to believe Jesus will beat up his bride and deliver his wrath to her same as he does the unbelieving world. If he does, im wrong and he had higher reasons. However i DO NOT believe He will. Amen 🙏 brother

[@deanhil3978]

@@G1stGBless Read on, we shall be protected from the evil that surrounds us. Also, we will perform amazing feats that draw others to Him. Not my words. I struggle some with recall, I can find the second reference fairly easy, in Daniel. I'm not asking folks to change what they believe, just be prepared. Trust me, I don't relish the thought, but I'm not able to find where it says folks will be taken before His return. I'm willing to keep looking,I'll read up on the parts that leave you believing as you do, I'll share where my beliefs are coming from. If it keeps our noses in the book, it's not a bad challenge. . Peace my new friend, Proverbs 27:17. Thank you

[@donnawatson7686]

I believed in the rapture wholeheartedly until my belief was lovingly challenged by a friend. In researching and studying the Bible, I was caused to change my belief. think that believing in the rapture theology will leave a lot of Christians unprepared when they face trials if they have lived their life believing that Jesus will rapture them out of the tribulation to come. Noah wasn’t taken out of the flood, but he and his family were protected through it. Daniel’s 3 friends did not escape the fiery furnace, but Jesus was with them in it. None of the disciples escaped persecution because of their faith in Jesus, so I don’t see how we can expect to. Jesus tells us plainly, “In this world, you will have tribulation”. Just be prepared.

[@misha-elministries5246]

Hello brother , if you will please read this . If you add Daniels 62 weeks to when Israel became a nation on May 14th 1948 weeks being years you come to 2010 . In that time Barack Obama who was the leader of the Free World announced he approved of Homosexual marriage . Daniel 11:37 He does not regard the God of women . He also said he was a Christian . Jesus Christ called him by name . Barack Obama translated to english is (Lightening from the heights of heaven) Jesus said " I saw Satan fall as lightening from heaven . Luke 10:18 New King James Version And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. if you add Daniels 7 weeks to his 62 weeks being years you have Daniels 69 weeks being the year 2017 in which Donald Trump Leader of the free world was in office . (The Last Trump) King James Bible 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last TRUMP. If you add Daniels Last week . A week being 7 years to 2017 you will come to the End of Daniels timeline ; May 14th 2024 .(Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, ) One month before May 14th 2024 on "April 8th" a total eclipse will happen (The sun will be darkened) over America signaling the End of the World . We the children of God have about 7 months left before the Rapture and the (The End of The World) .

[@rdelrosso1973]

@@deanhil3978 Revelation 3:10

[@stevekerp1]

The rapture case hangs firmly on Rev. 3:10 - unless you have any other viable explanation for some group of people (who?) being saved from (and not "preserved through") an "hour of trial" which is coming upon the WHOLE WORLD to try those who dwell upon the earth. This does not seem to be some local misery, but something much larger. If this promise is not for us, then who does it apply to? If this is not the period of global misery described in the following chapters of Revelation, then just what time period is in view?

[@stevo19911991]

I’ve always believed this. And I’ve gone to Baptist and Mennonite churches my whole life. Never understood why so many people think Jesus will come back 2 more times. If the tribulation were true, then everyone would give their hearts to God the day before he came the next time. Too easy

[@bigscarysteve]

The tribulation is true. The rapture is true. The only false part is that Jesus will return twice.

[@shawnalLovesJesus]

@@bigscarysteve He has come already and He will come in the end meaning His feet will touch the Earth. Rapture involves us being taken up into the clouds to be with Him. We leave Earth. Then wrath happens.

[@marcusonesimus3400]

I sympathize with your less-than-rapturous skepticism but find your reasoning difficult to accept. 1. So what if people are saved under sub-optimal conditions or for 'selfish' reasons (as though our salvation were a gift from us to God, perish the thought)? Please read 1st Timothy 2:4 and take note of God's mercy, in contrast with our own grudging acceptance of fellow-sinners. Too easy, you say? I hope you were joking. Let's put on hairshirts and self-flagellate, to be assured of our salvation. 2. Waiting is a dangerous game. Mostly we do not know the moment of our death, so as to calculate how late will be 'too late'. Sometimes we underestimate the perversity of human rebellion, the stubbornness of sin. Where does it say that they gnawed their tongues with pain, yet would not repent? They blasphemed all the more. Revelation 16:10-11.

[@lesliehiatt8959]

@@marcusonesimus3400 can you reason these 3 things and prove him wrong? 1 Jesus Christ came to earth in the flesh and suffered trial, persecution, and tribulation(death) for our sin. 2 Jesus said: you call him Lord and master. No man is greater than the Lord. 3 1Peter 2:21 For even here unto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow in his steps. Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

[@framboise595]

@@bigscarysteve The tribulation WAS true 2000 years ago and predicted by JESUS in HIS generation. Please stop adding things to Revelation because it is strictly forbidden by the Lord.

[@PaidforinFull]

oddly, recently I have been grappling with this belief. The issue kept coming forward in my thinking, until I finally searched out what was behind the thinking, only to immediately see why it's a false belief. But I needed to investigate why would I latch onto such a false teaching. The answer came just as quickly, part of me was afraid of the prospect of going through such a painful time, and this theology was a mental escape. I have given it up, and confessed my sin before Jesus, and what a relief it is to have let it go.

[@Mrcrisis2012]

where didthis guy come from....Hes a complete clueless moron....the bible only teaches a pre trib rapture....read it !!

[@Mrcrisis2012]

God's word only teaches a pretrib RAPTURE 1 Cor 15:52...which is Part 1 of a 2 part 3rd coming...part 2 when he steps on Mt of Olives...after his resurrection 2nd coming ✝️✝️

[@edkay3601]

Revelation 3:10 proves a pre-trib rapture! Any non Scripture source is irrelevant!

[@Mrcrisis2012]

@@edkay3601 yes all of scripture proves a pretrib RAPTURE....these people need to know their Lord ✝️✝️

[@W.451]

@@Mrcrisis2012 Realize that Jesus does not come to Earth at the rapture. A "window" opens to heaven and Jesus appears out of it and calls the Ekklesia up unto himself. The Matt 24 gathering are ANGELS carrying Jews to Jerusalem to meet the returned king who's name they called out to. Jesus said he would not return until Israel calls on him. They do so at the end of JACOB"s TROUBLE. All these post tribbers carefully void the details like that.

[@magprob]

I knew this but needed a refresher. Thank you!!!

[@left0verture]

I’ve (mostly) been in pre-trib/rapture teaching churches all my life. I agree - nowhere does Scripture come right out and teach a pre-trib rapture in just so many words, but I think you can make a good case for it regardless. This video is an historical perspective, but I don’t see why it being a relatively recent teaching should necessarily be a disqualification, as long as it doesn’t contradict clear Scripture. I’d like to hear more from the opposing viewpoint. Subscribing and looking for some thoughtful stuff on this and other subjects. 👍

[@nickma71]

You won't get a reply from scripture, only strawmen, red herrings and other logical fallacies. Paul comes right out and says we will be caught up with him, saved from wrath, and that it was not taught in scripture. The Body of Christ is a mystery, not in scripture.

[@GregoryJByrne]

Go get another depopulation Rapture, Passover, Final Solution, ETERNAL SIN covidiot quackzine. God want's that none shall perish but that all shall repent & follow his new commandment new covenant delivered by his son Jesus to the vineyard keepers.

[@mikejohn0088]

Jesus had 12 disciples. Judas hung himself after he betrayed Jesus. John of Patmos, author of Revelation, died a natural old age death. The other 10 disciples were murdered in horrific manners for preaching the word of Christ. They received no free passes.

[@W.451]

1 and 2 thess. It does and quite clearly. Theywere asking Paul if they missed the rapture because liars forged letters claiming to be from Paul that the tribulation had begun then. ( the Roman persecution ) scroll down though these resources. www.youtube.com/@prophecywatchers/search?query=rapture

[@lovemyhoney1352]

In Revelation Jesus says to expect tribulation (of man and satan), but we will not suffer God’s wrath. God’s wrath is reserved for those who work against Him. Tribulation of man and satan is totally different than God’s wrath. Pray you stay vigilant, refuse the mark of the beast, be prepared to suffer some tribulation. God’s wrath is nothing to take lightly.

[@GoodNews-px2im]

Thank you! I’ve been taught the “rapture” at every church and have always questioned it, you know, considering it’s not in the Bible. How can so many denominations agree on and teach something that is not in scripture, but have complete opposite ideas and beliefs on scriptural facts? Blows my mind 1-year Edit: I can see this is a hot topic and apparently is causing a lot of discussion (some good, some not). Honestly, I believe we need to be able to have open discussions about our disagreements (and agreements) over doctrinal statements. I probably should have been more clear in my original post, I absolutely believe that Jesus is coming back for us (nobody knows when, so y’all need to stop bickering over “pre/post tribulation”. My original post was about not basing an entire doctrine on someone’s dream. Rather, we need to carefully examine scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. The idea of some secret rapture, like in the girl’s dream, is NOT in the Bible. What the Bible DOES teach is that when we are ENraptured (caught up in the clouds with Jesus) it is going to be a very public and exciting event! Whether it happens before, during, or after the tribulation, who knows? And honestly, who cares? What we DO know is that He is coming and we need to be ready! We also need to help others be ready, by sharing the Gospel with them and making disciples of all nations! It’s ok to disagree on certain things. When that happens, we mustn’t attack each other (like some of you seem to be doing in the replies) but we must humbly come together, have open discussions, and seek God and search His Word TOGETHER. Remember, we share one common enemy, and that’s NOT other people (especially other believers). Our war is NOT against flesh and blood, so let’s stop fighting each other and be united in spirit and truth, and stand firm together against the real enemy! Love and blessings!

[@richardrogers156]

Check out smryna christian church, Just Thoughts studies, Eagle's wings ministries,The shepherds chapel 💪😇🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@margiechism]

| REVELATION CHAPTER 19 | STATES IT ALL. Jesus comes like a ●thief, the ●Day of the LORD, The ●First Resurrection and the ●Remainers in Christ are changed. ●Jesus with ●his Army ●wage War with the Nations, they War against Jesus and Jesus's Army. The ●SUPPER is ●fowl eating all the flesh of Jesus's enemies. The ●Antichrist and ●False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, and ●Lucifer is chain locked in Hell for 1000 years...this appointed Day Kicks off the ●Rod of Iron Judicial System with Jesus...THE MILLENNIUM.

[@GoodNews-px2im]

@@margiechism I’m aware what Revelation says, but this video is specifically about the concept of a “rapture” which is not even a word in the Bible. This “doctrine” is based off of a dream some girl had in the 19th Century.

[@thereasonablecreationist]

@@GoodNews-px2im Perhaps the Rapture isn't a word in the Bible, but neither did Jesus explicitly say "I am God." But he implicitly said he was God when he claimed the Godly authority to forgive sins, that anyone who has seen him has seen the Father, etc. Perhaps God inspired her dream, in order to reveal a proper understanding of certain biblical passages as the End Times draw closer, so people of our time would have an in-depth knowledge of what is to occur.

[@ladyb6513]

Read Matthew 24. Explains it all. Also this is for everyone not just for the Jews as most pastors teach. Pray God gives you discernment.

[@full_metal_troy8394]

This is a special topic for me. I was told long ago that I would never be able to teach in the body I was a part of or be in the ministry whatsoever if I didn't adopt pre tribulation rapture. You see people were trying to teach the body that idea, and I was personally convicted because of study in the word to pay attention to pre wrath and mid and post tribulation taking up as well. The point is that noone knows the day or the hour and we can't believe in what the word doesn't say, we have to believe in what it does say. Personally I see more of a post tribulation joining with the Lord, but I would never teach absolutes in any of this prophecy because it isn't for us to know. We will see the signs, we are seeing them now. More than ever. What is important is Christ crucified, and the salvation that gives us. What is important is our relationship with Jesus. Now I will be one to say one hundred percent that my relationship is not good, because of my own sin at this time, but I will never deny Christ in my lifetime. So who are we to divide the body because of different beliefs in this part of prophecy? How can we in good confidence divide the body because of differences?? It is the teacher who will be judged more intensely, not the student, but Judgment is for THE LORD. None of us have the authority to spread rumors or division amongst ourselves. If you fear the Lord, love Him, and your neighbor, and repent of your sin just as I need to, in MEEKNESS AND HUMILITY. With fear and reverence work out your salvation with God between you and the Almighty. Do not judge, do not become haughty-self righteous thinking that you are without sin. He is coming back when He deems fit, not when we choose it to happen. Praise the Lord God and may peace be with all of you in the new year in Jesus' name.

[@sonnyreeves8123]

Amen not for us to know the hour

[@alexanderkapsiotis8050]

The thing is that if you don't believe (and do) everything the denomination teaches, you are not accepted as a trusted member of the congregation.

[@full_metal_troy8394]

@@alexanderkapsiotis8050 that isn't biblical.

[@alexanderkapsiotis8050]

@@full_metal_troy8394 It is not but it is how christian denominations operate.

[@wbl5649]

calvary chapel ?

[@malissiajones7761]

I once knew a man who felt he had done well. He thought he knew it all and he had no fear of hell. He went to face the devil, and said, "I have the key. I've been to seminary and I've earned my degree." But the devil didn't mind. He gets diplomas all the time. No, the devil didn't mind. He gets diplomas all the time.

[@P1959H]

I agree. I was brought up with this rapture theology. Remarkable that it is believed by people who like to think they hold to authentic, early-church doctrine, but on this (and other) matters cling to a modern notion - but most of them do not appreciate that.

[@RanierMedic]

I don't hang my faith on the rapture. Events will come to pass as God intends them, whether He takes the church home early or not. I am, as I like to say, a pan-tribulationist; it will pan out they way God intends it.

[@MrTwige]

my LORD will make a way, for me to endure, any tribulation..and if my life is required, i freely give it. may it bring glory to the Father, in my death...that is faith...

[@W.451]

John saw the the REDEEMED CHURCH IN CHRIST in HEAVEN throwing their crowns at Jesus"s feet say he was worthy to open the seal judgments BEFORE the first 7 judgments were open to start the Tribulation. Try actually reading the Bible.

[@MrTwige]

@@W.451 so you have no faith than?...is that what your saying friend?

[@W.451]

@@MrTwige I'm not getting into any of your scybala as Paul said. Look up that greek word.

[@MrTwige]

@@W.451 lol...so many of you are nuts and do not know a Holy Spirit!

[@W.451]

@@MrTwige I expected such a response and you show to be a religious spirit rejecting truth. Be Gone.

[@user-fk8hr6gv6g]

I had a friend who followed Harold Camping and had a rapture picnic, I got all the leftover food and soda, because they didn't think they would need it!

[@ecstaticeclectic]

To abandon anything that is unbelievable is truly eclectic, thank you.

[@joelblackford7802]

As a recovering Methodist PK, I’ve Left Behind the Methodist Church. My father was a wonderful conservative man (Asbury Theological). He fought hard to keep the Methodist Church on a godly path. It’s sad to see it falling apart.

[@royknight5107]

Please note that no form of Methodisim officially emraces dispensationalism. I am a retired UM pastor

[@J-PLeigh8409]

If only all denominationall churches would know & understand this, its not from the early church & w/ The Holy Spirit guiding us in The Word are eyes are opened to the correct exegesis. Praise to The King of Glory Christ Yeshua

[@eveevolution1607]

Glad you understand that!!!

[@Barbara-cr5zj]

Actually the oldest denominations and the majority of Christians do NOT teach the Rapture Theology. The Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodoxy, Lutheran, Anglican, and Calvinism do NOT teach the Rapture. The churches with most history do NOT teach rapture. Hollywood seemed to make the Rapture popular. The Apostles Creed teaches the resurrection of the dead and that Christ will come again.

[@J-PLeigh8409]

@@Barbara-cr5zj your right, but it does seem to be a widespread belief especially in the Baptist Church, def fundamentalist, which is an awful alot of people esp in America. I've even attended one for past year, putting it aside as non essential & more focus on essentials & fellowship, but it influences more teaching & biblical understanding/interpreting than I can bear

[@Barbara-cr5zj]

@@J-PLeigh8409 I understand. I grew up Catholic (not anymore but still think it has many doctrines right where Protestantism is wrong). I have many scars from people in other denominations implying Catholicism is totally evil and wrong and Protestantism is 100 percent correct. They say Catholics aren't Christians and some even go so far as to say that Catholics are Satanists. I am not over the pain. I need prayers and help. I pray for those who are so arrogant and under false doctrines from all denominations. No denomination has all the truth. Please pray for me and for my scars to heal. It hurts being called a Satanist.

[@J-PLeigh8409]

@@Barbara-cr5zj I know exactly what your talking about, as I grew up Catholic but went after the world & away from all religion young. Many years later when God opened the eye of my heart & I was regenerated, w/ a love for scripture, I had a problem w/ what I saw in the Roman Catholic Church & went to Protestant denom, Presbyterian then Baptist but the more I grow in the knowledge of the truth the more I see Protestant churches have their own issues & plenty that doesnt line up w/ scripture, of course as well w/ Catholicism its up for interpretation, Im almost coming 360 but issues w/ Pope & some of the added teachings worship of Mary the mother of Christ, prevent it. I've recently attended & looking into Lutheran. I believe Holy Communion should be every week & Eschatology proves to be very important & of course Essentials & Fellowship. I Never wanted to hop around looking for a church but its easier said than done, whether location, like minded believers, liberal churches, scriptural interpretation etc, its a journey of sorts. Peace & grace to you in the name of Christ Jesus

[@user-hl4ic9kc5y]

I still enjoy hearing my ol# North Carolina and methodist Ashland seminary professor- David Barrett class of 1986.

[@garyollett]

Very good intro on dispensationalism and rapture theory, but left off the late 19th century acceptance by most all "new" denominations starting with AB Simpson / C&MA in 1885, the 1880 Niagara Bible Conference, the 1900 Bible Conference where Wily Cyrus" / C.I. Scofield got the idea of putting these very complicated and confusing notes in a study bible. The pentecostal denominations which started in the early 20th century including the Assembly of God, etc. not to mention taking over most all Baptist Churches, but Ben only had 7 minutes, he did a good intro.

[@m.d.d4250]

This quick overview will be so helpful to share with people not willing to watch something else much longer. Hopefully it exposes enough if the error for people to be willing to do further research

[@SpotterVideo]

The following also reveals many of the errors of the doctrine. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. ============= Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the KZbin video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church: “The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?

[@rickdalbey6009]

Witherington is wrong. Many of the early church fathers taught a pre tribulation rapture. Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD. On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist. In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation. Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine. Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776) Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.

[@stephenszucs8439]

@@rickdalbey6009 No, someone has CLAIMED That Ephriam wrote a pre-trib statement. That was PSEUDO Ephriam (fake) and he stated that the believers are gathered and thus escape...but the Pretribbles left out the rest of the statement (a text out of context is a pretext.) What Pseudo Ephriam actually said was that the elect escape BY DYING! The other newly discovered pretribble statements by early church fathers are also random lines taken out of a context which clearly demonstrates an expectation that the church will be here during the tribulation. There are a couple of statements by a couple of people who were in the early church, which can be interpreted to lean toward a pre-wrath stance. These statements have been grasped by pretribbles and are claimed to "prove pretrib." I guess one must go to great lengths to support a position which is not in the Bible.

[@W.451]

@@SpotterVideo You sure are in love with the lies of false teachers. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYaxYqtsm7isn5Y

[@ClintonSinclair]

what are you shooting at f1.8?

[@sowingandreaping7871]

If the left behind theology should be left behind then when jesus returns who does he return with and who is here during the great tribulation?

[@user-cm7zh1wh8x]

This is the absolute truth. Thank you God.

[@EBRoyJr]

Minority of protestants have embraced rapture theology? Nearly everyone I know believes and adheres to it. I'm the odd man out because I don't. I did believe in the rapture most of my life, but was shown the truth a few years ago.

[@rolledsocks5167]

Same. Shows how those who so desperately think they believe the truth can also believe a lie just because it sounds cool.

[@fed99harmony]

Agreed..

[@DTurner168]

I believed the rapture theology all my life because that’s what I was told and taught growing up in church. After 52 years, and praying for revelation and truth in all things, I have studied and longer believe in the futurism rapture theology. And I have a clear vision of the Antichrist and what the “mark of the beast” is.

[@jamiek1714]

Hey friends. I too am a former rapture believer until I finally read the Bible throughly. There is not one verse that supports the rapture.

[@rickdalbey6009]

Witherington is wrong about many things. Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD. On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist. In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation. Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine. Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776) Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.

[@user-hd2um7pd4e]

2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears" Thank you, Ben, for your enlghtenng comments on this subject.

[@williamward9278]

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is VERY clear. Read it. Matthew 24:40 is VERY clear and Jesus himself talking. Read it. I love the verse you quoted but it isn't telling who is not enduring sound doctrine now is it?

[@squirreljones3595]

​@@williamward9278 John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is truth It doesn't seem like sound doctrine for you to add 1007 years after the day Jesus calls the Last day 1 Corinthians 15 Paul says the resurrection of the dead four times before verse 51 Dead in Christ means saints that overcome the Mark of the beast You don't have one Bible verse that promised white robes or the thousand year reign of Jesus to the church The saints have those Bible verses Revelation 7 14 Revelation 20 4

[@williamward9278]

@@squirreljones3595 those that refuse the mark are mentioned in that exact way. You speak of the tribulation saints. The church saints are already raptured.

[@squirreljones3595]

@@williamward9278 No, the church rapture is at judgement day John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times 1 Corinthians 15 Paul says the resurrection of the dead four times before verse 51 Daniel 12 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. John 5 29 Revelation 20 12-15 both sound exactly like Daniel 12 2 Four verses after judgement day Revelation 21 4 God wipes away the Bride's tears The church is in old heaven and in the dust of the earth during the thousand year reign of Jesus Revelation 4 old heaven is spirit world Revelation 21 New heaven New earth New Jerusalem with no more days

[@williamward9278]

@@squirreljones3595 No, we will not go through the tribulation. Revelation 3:10, 1 Thessalonians 5:9. Revelation is NOT Chronological. Your first mistake is thinking that it is. The redeemed return with Christ. We can't return if we never left. We enjoy the marriage supper of the lamb in heaven while the tribulation occurs on earth. TRUTH!!

[@Parkeri1313]

well stated. you are now the 3rd theologian I've heard this exact story/history from. well done sir. my main concern is that there are people out there who put their hope in being "raptured before things get bad". this is very concerning as our hope is supposed to be in person and the finished work of Jesus and not a rapture.

[@treefellonya]

That is an excellent way to put it. A person, not an event.

[@toddarcand6002]

This theology gives people an idea as well that they get a second chance. They negate God's eternal law which is the standard of judgement, and figure well if I am left behind I have another chance, and because they accept this theology, that is when the Lord comes upon them like a thief. God bless.

[@justsumname]

plus it has the effect of giving people a 'reason' to not be involved in politics -- why bother, I will be zapped away before anything bad happens ... The fact is, everyone will be here for the long haul and since govt 'controls' the world we live in, we all need to be informed and involved. Our futures depend upon it. Enslavement, anyone ?

[@christiansaint716]

I agree. Look at my comment to pkoden19. Unfortunately, people who hold fast to this often will retort w/something like "enjoy the wrath!" That type of response also says false doctrine!

[@keithknechg3217]

Christ said "We are to make his enemies his footstool" ...probably would be difficult if we are not here amongst the enemy.

[@lesliecrawford1336]

💯 correct! Ezekiel 23:17-22 God is against those that teach His people to fly away to save their souls.

[@SteveVoros]

Left Behind? More like Carried Away.....

[@ayekaye8055]

Steve Voros haha

[@1969cmp]

Rapture theology is in Thessalonians.

[@pcjenkin]

@@1969cmp Yeah, and Cyrus Scofield added it.

[@W.451]

@@pcjenkin That is just stupid.

[@yqafree]

@@1969cmp True there is a sort of rapture so to speak, but it's either pre-wrath or perhaps post-trib when earth is being put to fire The bible doesn't make the "rapture" out to be some "I declared Christ so therefore I will have no persecution or tribulation" That of which is a sort of wishful pre-trib ideology that comes from this dispensationalism crap And the bible declares it! Israel is a spiritual people not a nation-state, it never was I truly believe when true and faithful Christians i.e. Israel are gathered by God is when we'll know the end is soon and that's when they make a way out of the temptress of Babylon (the geopolitics of today) they will keep to all His ways without sinning at the frequency that believers in the name of Jesus are doing currently Please check the source languages the bible has been consistent in this claim Liberties have been made in English and every language, careful with your investments of belief, Jesus said doctrines of man/demons will lead many until destruction Judean blood are not simply Israelites, they're descendants of the culture and can be now if they choose, but like any other individual can pervert, twist, add or subtract to scripture, beware Nor are all Israelites ever going to set foot in the nation-state made by the Talmudic Zionistic Phariseeical Ashkenazi some borders declared in 1948 God is not of fornication, nor adultery, nor death, He says they're the world, He will not break His laws, He doesn't have two brides nor has He given up one for another Please tell me that you know what I mean, otherwise I implore you to vastly read your bible

[@JWCFB]

What difference does it make when? All that matters is that you are ready to meet Jesus. I have my own doctrine, it's called the "Be Ready Freddy" doctrine.

[@delilahsorensen855]

It does make a difference because Satan will impersonate Jesus' Second Coming and if you don't know this fact, you will fall for this false coming.

[@robertkrysmalski5911]

Yes, it does make a difference. Satan appears first; see 2 Thessalonians 2: 3, 4 The Antichrist (Satan) is disguised as Christ, see 2 Corinthians 11: 14 The fake Christ just might say, I’ve come to rapture you away. Just want you to Be more Ready Freddy. btw, I like your doctrine 🙏

[@alvinjohnson773]

It makes a difference if you think that by being a believer God won't allow you to suffer. Cause I can tell you this is not always the case. Jesus said in this world we will have tribulation and this can take many forms. Secret rapture think lulls us into a false sense of comfort and security, yes its a nice idea but won't help when crisis come.

[@cassiebennet4262]

@@alvinjohnson773 No one who believes in the rapture thinks it's "secret." What in the world are you talking about?

[@alvinjohnson773]

@@cassiebennet4262 Hi Cassie, thanks for the question. The "secret rapture" is a common term used to describe the pre-millennial idea that Jesus will come and rescue his church prior to the Tribulation. This idea was first introduced by Nelson Darby in the early 1800's (He also was involved in establishing the cult of the Closed Brethren). However, the more commonly held view is that the rapture of believers and the coming of Jesus will be at the same time after the Tribulation. Apart from the weak support from the Bible, the idea of a rapture where Jesus comes in secret prior to his second coming is also dangerous because it implies that God won't allow suffering to happen to us. (Try explaining that to Christians in North Korea). It is dangerous because when difficulties and challenges arise in our live we won't be able to cope with it if we hold to this idea. I hope this helps explain things.

[@rapunzelz5520]

Thanks for the historical timeline. It is amazing how one or two individuals can create a belief system and if it is in church or an annotated Bible, people just accept it. I came to Christ partly through the Late Great Planet Earth book-and so have many others-and until recently I never thought to question it!

[@wwj14]

pre trib is the earliest history if you do a deep dive in study

[@doylegaines1319]

I find it amazing that you can accept this video as PROOF of anything! You must be a very trusting soul. If you pay attention you'll see that he gave his opinion and offered NO proof. As to when and if the rapture will occur, that's another issue - but if you accept this video as offered, then you're simply believing an opinion. And opinions are not the same as proof. Instead of relying on Hal Lindsay or Mr. Wetherington, why not anchor your faith with The Word? The Holy Spirit is the best teacher.

[@wwj14]

@@doylegaines1319 doyle you make no sense, WHO is not relying on the bible? Lindsay relied on the bible, if you interpret adverse to pre trib/disp that is your right, but why malign hundreds of millions of pre trib/disp Chritsians?

[@doylegaines1319]

@@wwj14 You're not paying attention.

[@wwj14]

@@doylegaines1319 hmm LIndsay said pandemics/diseases, when a Dr. friend said these would be cured,(in his original manuscript) the Isreal restoration prophecies cont. to be fulfilled apace, incl. world hating jews, preacing of gspel in every tongue with transl. tech etc etc... I think I am paying attn!!!

[@vicvancouver3123]

Interesting, thanks. Admittedly I find myself leaning one way and then the other since studying the topic more often lately. One point I've not encountered during my studies ~ Given that the Bible as we know to be available today (numerous versions of course, and even e-copies), was mostly not widely available until when? 1800 to 1950? or something like that? So then wouldn't that somewhat discount the "not taught for 1800 years" line of reasoning? (Knowledge will increase) Anyway, I'll continue listening to both sides of the discussion. Thanks, and God bless.

[@Andrei-sg7lu]

Not widely available until the 1800 or 1900s?? What are you talking about? I think you got your literacy time-line mixed up a bit. Furthermore, even if that were true, which it isn't, the greatest theologians in history who did read and study the Bible did not teach the rapture.

[@vicvancouver3123]

What I intended to convey was that not just anyone (the common person) could go out and purchase a copy of the Bible as we can today, until and I'm guessing, about what 1800 or later? From my understanding William Tyndale is credited with translating the Bible into the English language about 1525, and even then, it wasn't like the Bible was available to the common person and available right away. That took time of course, and my thought is that more study of the Bible by a far wider audience was possible once modern means of replicating the Bible as we know it today evolved. Now today of course the Bible can be accessed through many other languages and not just English. All theory including of course Eschatological can be studied by a larger group and not left in the hands of theologians, preachers, and ministers only. Thanks for responding to my comment.@@Andrei-sg7lu

[@drummerboynz]

Wow hearing this history is so fascinating. I grew up absolutely indoctrinated with the rapture, and watched the Left Behind series in youth group etc. Quite terrifying and I was never convinced. Interesting hearing how this has all unfolded.

[@edkay3601]

Revelation 3:10 proves a pre-trib rapture! Any non Scripture source is irrelevant!

[@yafois988]

Stephen, Because the Spirit of Truth was keeping you from the Lie it IS, like he did many of us whom walk in truth and Light. Many of us were imposed upon by this sweeping satanic lie from TBN that flooded the airwaves, flooded most ppl's houses and minds confounding & polluting many ppl's minds with that sorcery notion.

[@seekingtruth2157]

@@edkay3601 "I will also keep you from the hour of testing" Keep is translated from tēreō, which means, to watch over, guard, or preserve. No one will escape the tribulation

[@edkay3601]

@@seekingtruth2157 The Greek word translated "from" is ek, meaning "out of." Proof of a pre-trib rapture.

[@edkay3601]

@@seekingtruth2157 "tēreō" means "to keep", look it up.

[@manasavuibaubatiwale3593]

I have to agree with his explanation based solely on what the angels said to the disciples about the manner of Jesus would return (Acts 1:11) and of what Paul reminded the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18. I used to believe in the rapture and was always terrified at the thought of waking up one morning alone because my family had been "raptured" but thank God and His Holy Spirit for really helping us to understand by the very simple words of the scripture that there is no such thing as a rapture - that it is just a man made doctrine not having a firm foundation on the Bible. It testifies to how powerful the Bible is, God's Word just knocks down this whole branch of "Christian theology" that was based on a "vision" that was not verified by it. Dear brethren and sisters, let us first verify all that we believe according to the Bible (Isaiah 8:20) or else our faith is just based upon shifty sand. God bless :)

[@firepatriot42]

IT was the same for me also. One night I read a verse, don't remember the reference, that helped dispel the fear and anxiety I'd had most of my life about its veracity.

[@leviserafimlevi]

@@firepatriot42 Doctrine of Imminent rapture will do two things: Prepare or scare. Jesus said that believers have no reason to fear or be troubled for the reason of his promise: “I will come and take you to live with me.” Is he coming after all? Don’t be rapture denier, be rapture ready, say, come Lord Jesus, come. Now, those who miss the rapture have all reason to fear. You don’t want to be on earth for the tribulation.

[@Sanslab-wu8tv]

I was saved into a church that believed and still believes this unscriptural teaching. I find that many individuals secretly reject it and many of the denomination’s scholars hold to it so lightly (I attended seminary) that it seems they have intellectual difficulty with it. Still, traditions are very hard to overcome, and I believe this false teaching will prevail for many years to come in our group. Please keep telling the truth on this issue!

[@Kman.]

We'll let's see...this video didn't put up a/thing that refutes the position, so what can you offer up that validates the position YOU subscribe to, and what can you provide that debunks the pre-trib rapture position?

[@Kman.]

@@Sanslab-wu8tv Your opening statement is simply flat out incorrect. Now, you may want to double down on your claim, but had you taken the few SECONDS to search it out, you'd find NUMEROUS sites that refute the tired, worn out, & flat out claim about the rapture being "INVENTED" in the 19th century, *SMH.* *Jan 24, 1848* probably means nothing to you, as it's clear you're no student of history, but that's the date that is attributed to INVENTING gold! That's right, gold was INVENTED that day, right? I mean, it never was in _them thar hills_ till that day, RIGHT? Pfft...we both know that gold was *D I S C O V E R E D* in California that day, not when it was invented, but look... The argument isn't when a doctrine became POPULAR, rather it's whether or not it is grounded in the WORD. With your opening salvo, you would think that this is to be your silver bullet or s/thing, 'eh? *SMH* =====> Truth is discovered, not invented, & you basically are guilty of chronological snobbery of sorts to even come UP with that nonsense. Hey...do we toss out justification by faith due to it not being taught till the Reformation? I would move on to take down your other nonsensical statements, but right now, I'm heading over to our son's to watch the Carolina Gamecocks take on the Clemson Tigers...far more important right now than dealing with posts such as yours. Hey, I may entertain the thought at some other time, but meanwhile, study up my brother, for you've got a *LOT* to learn as far as end times doctrine, just sayin'. I don't say that to be condescending, but seriously my friend...that falsehood has hoisted up over, & over, & over, & over ad nauseam. *MARANATHA!*

[@Sanslab-wu8tv]

@@Kman. Thanks for your question. Since pre-trib teaching is a recent (19th century) invention, the burden is on the innovators to try to show that their novel teaching harmonizes with Scripture which clearly contradicts it. “Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." -- Matthew 24:31 ESV "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the FIRST resurrection." -- Revelation 20:5 ESV Compare to the verse below. "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." -- 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ESV "Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes FIRST, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 ESV "Also it was allowed to make war on the SAINTS [MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH] and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation." -- Revelation 13:7 ESV The fact that the word "church" is not used after Revelation 4 is insignificant (as insignificant as its omission from 1 John) since it is described ("saints"). The Church is not destined for eternal wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9) and in spite of the persecution endured, will doubtless be spared from God's outpouring of wrath much as the Israelites were during the plagues prior to the exodus. Since the Bible so clearly refutes the new pre-trib teaching, it is no surprise that no one believed it before Darby. The denomination with which I am ordained (and from whose seminary I graduated) inherited this teaching, largely from the influence of the Scofield Reference Bible. I do not make an issue in the church of this minor issue even though I know my brethren are wrong. I love my pre-trib brethren very much even though they are mistaken.

[@rms-vp6hf]

Darby was able to become quite wealthy for a Pastor from preaching “the end is nigh!” Dispensationalism. It brought many people into the tents and filled his plates.

[@ronbo30]

Amen. I use to be pretrib. But after reading scripture myself, I changed to post trib.

[@richardwooten7657]

"" JOHN DARBY DID NOT INVENT THE PRETRIBE RAPTURE "" "" THEO HEARTSILL ,JEWISH WEDDING ""

[@larrybedouin2921]

@@richardwooten7657 ⚠️The pre-tribulation rapture is counter reformation false theology spawned from the pen of Francisco Ribera; Jesuit monk, circa 1585 A.D. And the strange bedfellow of this false teaching is the seven year tribulation. A so called gap in the 70 weeks.

[@larrybedouin2921]

@viviane truyen Liar!

[@larrybedouin2921]

@viviane truyen And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until *their fellowservants* also and their brethren, that *should be killed as they were* should be fulfilled. {Revelation 6:11} ^ There are two dispensations of tribulation, first for 1,260 years, before the beast from out of the sea received a deadly wound, and after the deadly wound has been healed, and the false prophet (the beast from out of the earth) has made an image to the first beast, and he shall ascend out of the bottomless pit (the grave) and go onto perdition. (In so doing satan is mocking the death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as it is his nature to do.) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had *not worshipped the beast* neither *his image* neither had received *his mark* upon their foreheads, [cognitive] or in their hands; [actions] and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {Revelation 20:4} -->No second chances. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give *every man* according as his work shall be." {Revelation 22:11-12} Judgment has already been made in heaven, where Jesus is our advocate (stands for his saints) in judgment with the Father.

[@larrybedouin2921]

@viviane truyen For my people are foolish, *they have not known me* they are sottish children, and *they have no understanding* they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. I beheld the earth, and, lo, *it was without form and void* and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, *there was no man* and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and *all the cities thereof were broken down* at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, *The whole land shall be desolate* yet will I not make a full end. For this shall *the earth mourn* and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. {Jeremiah 4:22-28}

[@gb3304]

The rapture concept is relatively new. It started with an Anglo-Irish theologian, who in the 1830s invented the concept. This may come as a shocker to many, but it’s a fact: Before John Nelson Darby imagined this scenario in the clouds, no Christian had ever heard of the rapture.

[@suga9875]

Rapture is an end time delusion my friend for those who love to be seduced and believe a lie..

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

G B, “Dispensationalism Before Darby” by Dr William C Watson proves that Dispensationalism and the Rapture were rediscovered during the Protestant Reformation when Englishmen disobeyed their leaders by translating the Bible into English and spreading them around. That's when people started learning what God actually said rather than what popes and kings claimed that God said. And the book cites hundreds of archival records to prove this.

[@brad7100]

@@suga9875 I'm glad people aren't believing the left behind nonsense, but now I'm reading them saying things like theres no rapture theres no tribulation both of those are biblical its the dispensational hal lyndsey, left behind nonsense that says it will be invisible and/or multiple, there is a tribulation and there is a rapture.

[@thelionofjudah77u82]

If there is no rapture, please explain what Paul meant saying we would be caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds?

[@ssweat1963]

@@thelionofjudah77u82 rapture is not the same as second coming. You quite words referring to post tribulation second coming.

[@LAHarder7]

Tech tip: PLEASE use a compressor and/or limiter to even out the audio volume!

[@trayhits]

Chuck Missler has some very good teachings on revelations and the rapture

[@darkknightsds]

Wow, thank you! I grew up evangelical and in the past couple years have had a reawakening of my faith within a more Anglican/ Episcopal tradition. You can imagine my shock when I learned the vast majority of Christians do not believe in a rapture, and that all the horror stories I were told would happen aren't rooted in real Biblical knowledge. I've learned the truth before this video, but this is the best summary of it that I've heard. Gonna share this!

[@justinamusyoka4986]

Is Christmas,Easter and New year rooted in the Bible? Just asking.

[@blazinga1200]

@@justinamusyoka4986 Those are all pagan holidays. Christians mean well, but these holidays are Satan’s mockery of God’s holy days.

[@SpotterVideo]

What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.

[@quonyoung1280]

Oh its going to be bad but unless you die you should be here for it, be prepared to fight the good fight of faith and with the sword of your mouth the word of god.😑

[@shawnalLovesJesus]

@@SpotterVideo Thank you. I'll look into 1 Thess 4 and 5.

[@dajw7540]

I've just recently come to realize, through restudying the scriptures, that pre-trubulation and mid-tribulation theology is simply wrong. It's not in the Bible. We Saints are here until the second coming of Jesus, so look busy and work for the Kingdom until he comes.

[@tedherold9887]

Don't "look" busy... be busy in getting as close to Jesus and doing His will.

[@markanthony3275]

But if you say that...you contradict Jesus when he said "night is coming when no man can work" (John) and when he said "pray that you might escape these things" (Luke). If the church is tasked with the Great commission...how come it says in Revelation "I saw an angel flying in mid-air and he had the eternal gospel to preach to every nation tribe and tongue. How come the Church isn't doing it? There's only one reason ...cause they aren't there to do it. This guy doesn't have a good grasp of scripture on this topic...but his real failing is in Christian Doctrine. The Bible does teach the rapture as something real...but you have to know where to start , because if you start in the wrong place you will get every reference to the Tribulation and rapture, wrong. here's where you start ...1st John 4: 1-3 which says.... " Dear friends, don't believe every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they are from God because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God but every spirit that does not acknowledge that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist which you have heard is coming, and even now is in the world." OK...what does acknowledging that Jesus came in the flesh have to do with the rapture you ask ? First, understand that the Tribulation is the WRATH of God poured out on sinful humanity...in Revelation , even the evil doers know this when they cry out " who will save us from the lamb because the day of his WRATH has come". We are flesh, and Jesus Christ came and took on himself our flesh, so that he could take upon himself our sin...and our WRATH...the WRATH of God which we deserved . This then , is SALVATION , Jesus Christ taking upon himself our sin and GOD"S WRATH when he died on the cross. When anyone teaches that the rapture is a false teaching they are in effect saying that Christians will experience the WRATH of God. This takes away from the work of Jesus on the cross...diminishes our salvation and is therefore a denial that Jesus came in the flesh. So you see how serious this is ? So according to the warning John gave us, what spirit is behind the teaching that the rapture is false? Once you understand the IMPLICATIONS of Jesus coming in the flesh, you can then start making sense of these words Paul wrote in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians..."Jesus who saves us from the WRATH that is to come"...and..."You are not appointed unto WRATH". There are many other scriptures I could point to and explain how they show that the nation of Israel plays the important role in the Tribulation, because the church is not present and God said he had unfinished business with his people Israel.

[@tammywatson5238]

@@markanthony3275 You are deceived. Please please please pray that the Lord will open you eyes before it is too late

[@markanthony3275]

@@tammywatson5238 No...because I've read and understood the Bible. And...I've explained VERY CLEARLY from the Bible why anyone teaching that there is no pre-trib rapture is under the influence of the "spirit of the antichrist" by using the measuring stick that John gave us in his 1st letter.

[@allencunningham8605]

I for many years was taught pre trib but was never ever settled. Upon searching and studying the scripture for myself found that all that I was taught was unbiblical

[@heknows5418]

Sir being you so well informed, maybe you should read Polycarp he was the bishop over the churches in Turkey appointed by the Apostle John and Ireanaus these two men knew John the Apostle and they taught the Rapture, and others just do so research

[@donp1088]

Ben, I appreciate your method of ‘unpacking’ the subject, and how the ‘rapture’ theology gets ‘left behind’ after you sum up your points, but it still leaves me with a thought that demands attention. That thought is regarding how, over the centuries, God has purposefully opened man’s mind by revealing a more intimate understanding of His word, such that theology itself has seen some major revisions even though the words of the scripture never changed. Principally, Protestantism would never have begun without a re-think by one mind after reading the same verses he had always read. The belief of a triune God-head also fits that narrative. And now, the same prophecies we are seeing unfold, we’re never understood until God opened certain minds to bring clarity and understanding.

[@edkay3601]

1 Thess 4:18 It is hard to see how we can be comforted with the knowledge that we are going through the tribulation period.

[@barbaramahan364]

John 16:33

[@rickcasual]

@@barbaramahan364 Rev 3:10, 1 Thess 5:9, you cannot twist these verses

[@johncollins6755]

...I am sooo pleased to find a traditional perspective/theology of the scriptures. I was raised in this dispensational type of perspective...and it was in 2002, give or take, that I came to understand differently. I now see the scriptures as they reflect Christ, his work, the things that he completed and the things that he brought into existence. That overarching concept, while it has not answered all the questions I have regarding the scriptures...it has had the effect of not causing any conflict either. Taking just the account where Christ makes reference to both Noah and Lot.....I have come to accept that Christ is referencing...Judgement and Deliverance (Salvation)....this fits precisely what Jesus did with his death, burial and resurrection.... The key, for me, in coming to seeing Christ in these events, was that the time element of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, was revealed to me What a blessing it has been...thanking GOD. Bless.... John Collins

[@crumble527]

Are you the same Mr. Collins from historical research? I’ve been hearing it. And it has opened my eyes to so many things. It’s a painful process.

[@Mrcrisis2012]

where didthis guy come from....Hes a complete clueless moron....the bible only teaches a pre trib rapture....read it !!

[@AlaskanMissions]

Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130-202) was a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John). Irenaeus moved to Rome and studied under Justin Martyr. He was a strong opponent of heresy, and an influential witness concerning the development of the biblical canon. The significance of Irenaeus is found in his writings. There are fragments of many works, but two major works survive intact: Against Heresies and Proof of Apostolic Preaching. Many of his writings have not yet been translated into English. Some of his writings support the rapture of the church. This being so Darby can not be said to be the beginning of teaching or the originator of the doctrine. If even one person taught it prior to Darby then he can't be the originator.

[@mayorrodgers7446]

What you’re saying is just simply not true. I challenged you to source your comment.

[@russellspeer3989]

@@mayorrodgers7446 Morgan Edwards (a Baptist preacher) was clearly teaching the Rapture in America 100 years before Darby...

[@raymondmurray1192]

What Bible do you use.NKJ,NIV other ? please.I have always trouble with "The Rapture"

[@williamredfield6006]

As soon as one starts with Darby, you can conclude they have not truly done their homework...

[@kimmykimko]

Lol😂 it's not Biblical no matter where it started.

[@williamredfield6006]

@@kimmykimko The Stewardship of God is definitely taught in the Bible as is the catching up of the believers ~

[@drnobody7934]

When the sun is darkened and the moon turned to blood, that’s when we will see the son of man shining like lightning from the East to the west and return to send his angels to gather us who are alive and remain.

[@johnramirez3247]

Where was he then after all the eclipses and the blood moon occurences that happened from past years? Nowhere go be found because its all foolishness.

[@framboise595]

@ Dr Nobody Do you realise the HISTORICAL CONTEXT when Jesus said this ? He was asked by his diciples about something that would happen in 3050 ??? He was asked by his disciples about the DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE in Jerusalem ! When was the temple destroyed ? Please do some historical research !

[@donschweitzer3045]

I learned about what you were speaking to while I was at seminary that was 50 years ago. I cannot believe the canvas that I see every day on Facebook and other social media about this idea of a rapture your historical knowledge parallels mine and it’s sad that so much junk is being disseminated. Thank you for your work. I’ll sign up for your channel. May God bless you.

[@misha-elministries5246]

The phase pre-trib should be pre-wrath. Jesus said . (And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 The bible says (For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.) Do not be left behind! Ben Witherington is mistaken

[@Gee-xb7rt]

About 1/3 of the US is Evangelical/Christian Zionist. It kind of amazes me that Christians idol worship Israel while Christians are bombed same as Muslims in Gaza. I really don't get it, unless the Israeli rabbis are behind the promotion of this stuff, it certainly benefits them. Netanyahu has mentioned them as Christian Zionists and how much they aid Israel.

[@L5player]

When I was first saved in 1970, I was given a Scofield and I used it for years. But I eventually set it down after it was suggested that I ran the risk of conflating what I see in the text with what I've actually seen in a footnote. And guess whose advice that was? Harold Camping. Yes, THAT Harold Camping. Until his famous descent into "end-time guessing" and becoming famous for pronouncements of Jesus' pending return in the early 1990s, he was actually a very conservative and careful Bible teacher that I learned a lot from. And to this day, I believe his advice on the Scofield Bible was good. It's a useful study resource, true; but be careful to read it alongside other versions. You just might fuse a biblical text to a comment at the bottom of the page.

[@JasonPSchafer]

Reading revelations never gave me the sense of near dread and terror that ive heard from so many dispensationalists. Its unfortunate that this has been argued so hard because i hear it from so many people who hold it to it so hard so we can just wait and avoid the world we live in entirely.

[@Kissypooh]

The purpose of the book of Revelation is not to instill fear into believers, but the opposite, to encourage and strengthen believers who are already suffering at the hands of the Romans. Revelation declares that God is the winner of all battles: history, the present, the future, both in the physical world and in the spiritual world. Revelation is encouragement and strength while suffering. God is victorious and so are all Christians, past, present, and future.

[@leviserafimlevi]

The purpose of the book of revelation is to prepare, not to scare. Chapter 1: Meet Jesus on an island (The end of self confidence). If you avoid the bad practices of chapter 2 and 3, and practice the good of the same chapters, you will be ready to be taken up on chapter 4 and be present at the great service of chapter 5. On chapter 6 the wrath of God will fall on earth but you don’t have to worry; You won’t be here. Tribulation is for earth dwellers. Believers are pilgrims and will be taken out of this world. There is more comfort on John 14:1-3.

[@flittedacrossmybrain8584]

At 1:18, the speaker makes a categorically false statement: The Vulgate Bible does indeed refer to the notion of a rapture of the church in the actual language used (Latin), which was translated from Greek, and which predates Darby's time by CENTURIES. Taking a dim view of Moody and his works, especially those The Moody Church rendered on behalf of children, is either fatuous or flippant; either way, it distorts the truth. I'm a dissatisfied member of The United Methodist Church, and am astonished at its tendency to exalt its "Weslyan heritage" above the plain sense of Scripture. Furthermore, in its teachings regarding The Revelation, there is a persistent insistence that John's words are basically a coded message to the church of that day, and that this was done so as to baffle any Roman elements that might obtain the manuscript and seek to use it to further persecute the church. This is silly: Revelation 17:9 makes clear reference to the seven hills upon which sat the great whore, and the whole of this chapter deals not only with things past and present, but also those which are to come. Any imperial agents reading the text would instantly recognize Rome by its ancient moniker as The City that Sits on Seven Hills. So the question becomes, Why would such a book of intricate symbolism make such an obvious gaffe by giving away this critical element of detail? It simply doesn't hold water. We are to live in anticipation of The Second Coming of Christ, and not to content ourselves only with the elements of his First Coming. Finally, a special blessing is promised to all who take into themselves The Revelation of St John the Divine, yet the United Methodist Church dismisses it in large measure. My own pastor told me that the reason the United Methodist Church doesn't concern itself more than it does with these prophecies is that "the [United Methodist] church doesn't want to look foolish." Yes, indeed--how very Scriptural: We must always avoid being fools for Christ, that we might be wise in this world.

[@keithknechg3217]

Thankyou for historical clarity. God knew this was coming Ezekiel 13: 8..i am against those who teach my children to fly to save their souls.( paraphrased a bit but close enough ,my memory isn,t what it was).

[@chapmaned24]

We fly away after our souls are saved, because our souls are saved...not to save our souls.

[@mervjb809]

As a youngster, i was warned about the Scofield Bible. I have never believed all the rapture crap. Thank you for shedding light on its origin

[@FreddyZierau-zv8qx]

That’s weird to say “I don’t believe this rapture crap” considering it’s literally in the Bible. Are you not a Christian?

[@vieiradosreismariadelurdes9105]

​@@FreddyZierau-zv8qx IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE!

[@nocompromise704]

I totally agree with what you have shared, but you really need to prove this with scripture so people can know sound doctrine.

[@captainkirk7676]

Why? You kidding? Prove a lie by scripture. Come on, really???

[@marcusonesimus3400]

@@captainkirk7676 How about trying to discern what Scripture says, with the help of the Holy Spirit? And if we cannot be certain, how about admitting ignorance? There is no point in brother going to war against brother over this.

[@captainkirk7676]

@marcusonesimus3400 true! Don't unsave a brother through arguments. Let it be. Thanks my friend! Take care

[@marcusonesimus3400]

@@captainkirk7676 Thank you for writing back in such an encouraging way. I needed this, being involved in some tough discussions with unbelievers. God bless you and yours.

[@kimmykimko]

How about people open their Bibles themselves instead of having to be spoon-fed info. That's how we got in this mess in the first place. Dead church members lacking the Spirit and understanding and not able to interpret clear scripture!

[@flintymcduff5417]

Good, simple and accurate explanation.

[@corywiebe8008]

Simple and accurate with no Bible verses given. Sounds like Catholicism. I have heard both sides explain it with examples from the Bible and the rapture sounds a lot more believable if you go and study the scriptures they give.

[@sadiejones7991]

Not many folks could read until the 20th century, and relied on preachers, but now folks can read about the rapture clear as day

[@chapmaned24]

You think schools teach kids to read today? How do they have time with them greed haird idiots?

[@okiedean1112]

The English language has become Babble words change English is not a fixed language.

[@rickcasual]

@@okiedean1112 That has nothing to do with being able to READ like the comment states. We are more literate than ever and can read scripture for ourselves. The Greek itself has stronger evidence for the rapture than the english anyway.

[@ivanscott2367]

I was raised in this eschatology. However, I had the blessing of cleaning out the library of a Sr. Pastor. He was a pack rat, but I found many tracts, periodicals, and books written in the 19th and revised from the 18th century. NONE of them mentioned dispensationalism, rapture, nor special place for a new Israeli state. That was 27 years ago and I've been diligently studying the Bible ever since.

[@FreddyZierau-zv8qx]

So what? Those books aren’t the Bible, who cares what the opinions of men were? They lived 200 or so years before Isreal became a nation again, like the book of Daniel says “knowledge shall be increased”. They don’t have the benefit of the last 300 years where we see Isreal as a nation, facing opposition from the exact countries predicted in Ezekiel.

[@ivanscott2367]

@@FreddyZierau-zv8qx we're going on what men have been telling us about the Bible since it was compiled and a NEW doctrine has to be put to the scriptures and earlier doctrines. Btb, knowledge and wisdom are very different things.

[@FreddyZierau-zv8qx]

@@ivanscott2367there is no new doctrine, Paul appeared to believe in his lifetime that he would be “harpazo’d” Thanks to nearly 1000 years of the Catholic Church preventing any honest discussion, people rejected pre millennialism. However, a pre trib rapture has been taught since 100 AD, although not in the mainstream (ie: the pope)

[@brunosutherland6219]

I have read the Bible and left alone, I do see the rapture in it , in several types and as a promise of Jesus. Also in doctrines .

[@censured-again]

I think you were deliberately looking for references to tie into your belief. I am sure that you could chop up the bible, throw in a little from the Torah, some from the Quran, a little bit of Buddhist thought and establish a faith. Then you could start another fellowship of believers. At that point, think of the money you could make.

[@censured-again]

Forgot to add the following: maybe some Shakespeare, Sherlock Holmes, L Ron Hubbard, Mary White, Joseph Smith and others.

[@censured-again]

Maybe you don't like my opinion, but I have not been brainwashed to the point others have control.

[@whittakerdanielj]

It is so sad to see Christians arguing over this rather than searching scriptures and questioning what they are being taught to see if it is true. I will just stick with what I keep finding through studying, the Day of the Lord Gathering.

[@1969cmp]

".....in the twinkling of an eye..." 😁

[@kareizaamune429]

@@1969cmp At the last trump, after the tribulation. Yeah.

[@1969cmp]

@@kareizaamune429 ...and for what purpose are believers required to go through the Great Tribulation?

[@kareizaamune429]

@@1969cmp I wouldn't claim to know. I think it is the ultimate test of our allegiance, as Christ is coming for a church without spot or wrinkle. It is not a pleasant idea, but church history is replete with records of people (including 11 of the apostles) that laid down their lives for their faith. I believe our readiness to face the tribulation will be in proportion to our closeness to Christ. And if we choose to build up our faith, we can actually look forward to it with anticipation.

[@1969cmp]

@@kareizaamune429 Everyday life is a test. And people are either saved or not at any given time.

[@bacoda58]

For at or about 1500 years,due to catholocism, unless one could understand Latin, most were at the mercy of the "priethood' for interpretation of scripture. Guttenberg changed all of that and scripture began to be open to the common believer. So there is about 1500 of the 1800 years that your thesis falls back on. A quick critical assessment of the avenues of thought that were closed , by Roman Catholic "theology", will reveal PLENTY of light that was blocked only to be revealed by the full opening of the scripture via the printing press!

[@rickcasual]

I wish this was more obvious to people. More people can read today than any time in history as well. How many people could actually read just in the 1800s, not many.

[@thesonsarefree]

I remember a home group where everyone was discussing the "rapture" with excitement and expectations of an imminent departure. I casually pointed out that the scripture says it will be like the days of Noah and Sodom and Gamorrah and asked "who during those times were removed from the world?" It was the wicked and the righteous were left to start over or continue bearing fruit. I also pointed out the scripture where it says we are a planting for the display of the Lord's splendor and it was a garden God originally set us in to bear fruit - then asked what gardener in His right mind pulls up all the fruit bearing plants and leaves the garden to the weeds? Several people at that home group got sudden severe headaches ... apparently they were so conditioned to the idea of Christian escapism they couldn't handle simple commentary and observation about what the scripture actually says. Admittedly, I was influenced in the 1970s by Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth". But the rapture has never set right with me. Note, that I do see some evidence for it in Matthew 25:31-46 ... most people just see the sheep and goats in that passage ... but there's a 3rd group who are with Jesus "these BROTHERS of mine" - to be a brother of Jesus one must be born again. The sheep and goats are gathered from the "nations" which by definition and their own confessions, not saved and do not know Jesus. It is in showing love, compassion, charity to "these brothers of mine" that they are saved - Jesus loving them because they loved on His brothers. If that's a valid observation of the passage, how do "these brothers of mine" come to be WITH Jesus for that final judgement and are no longer "among the nations". I haven't worked it out - but see the potential for believers being removed before that judgement of the nations. No idea about the timing. I don't fear standing judgement before Him, because I'm saved and His righteousness has been imputed to me by His blood - likewise brotherhood. Still working it out with fear and trembling. PS - in Matthew 25, the word "nations" (greek Ethnos) means by definition "a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people." The "nations" are unsaved, by definition. Contrast that with "these brothers of mine" who to be a brother of Christ must be saved and born again. So there's 3 groups of people there - sheep from the "nations", goats from the "nations", and "these brothers of mine". Oh, and the holy angels.

[@rayhill5767]

Imagine if you put all that studious insight into something useful.

[@Emundas455]

In Revelation 9, after 70ish% of the world has been killed, who is left? Is it the Righteous? No, it is not. "The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands so as not to worship demons and the idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; and they did not repent of their murders, nor of their witchcraft, nor of their sexual immorality, nor of their thefts."

[@doncleveland1245]

Yes! The rapture delusion! The one where 4 year olds get raptured before the mark, and don't burn in the lake of fire for eternity! The one where Matthew 19:14 says "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Do you know what the kingdom of heaven is?? Apparently you missed out on that lesson at church. You are welcome, sir. Grace to you.

[@thesonsarefree]

@@rayhill5767 Same back at you - if you considered your own salvation.

[@prestigeprestiges8311]

You should begin with a definition of dispensationalism probably

[@W.451]

It is what Paul said it is. Was Adam under the adminstration/dispesation of LAW??? NO! you can't see that? Catholic/Orthodox ect. poison denies the different ways that God dealt with people at different times. very simple.

[@PastorStOnge]

Please tell me, is this word in the Bible " dispensationalism "? If so please give me scripture

[@W.451]

@@PastorStOnge First of all a lot of words we use regarding doctrine are not in the Bible as they are self evident like the Trinity of God, The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. The three intelligent cross communicating beings of God yet all one. Faulty western logic is not eastern logic. We are made in that image which most people don't know because of incompetent self called preachers that ought to keep their mouths shut and go work in a shop or something. That image is our eternal spirit, soul and body. Definition: ( A dispensation of the gospel is a period of time in which the Lord has at least one authorized servant on the earth who bears the holy priesthood and the keys, and who has a divine commission to dispense the gospel to the inhabitants of the earth ). Also called stewardships or administrations. Scripture... and WHY do you half to ask that?? No excuse. Paul said, "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward" Ephesians 3:2. Grace goes for a period of two days of a God week or 2,000 years since the cross.

[@W.451]

@@PastorStOnge Don't know Paul's letters? He wrote 3/4 of the New Testament. Dispensing of a time in different terms: Ephesians 3:9 and to illuminate for everyone the ( stewardship } of this mystery, which for ages past was hidden in God, who created all things. Colossians 1:25 I became its servant by the ( commission ) God gave me to fully proclaim to you the word of God, Many other verses all mean the same. Abraham had his commission of conscience and Moses had his dispensation of LAW. There are seven total. God's plan. 1 Corinthians 9:17 If my preaching is voluntary, I have a reward. But if it is not voluntary, I am still entrusted with a responsibility. Ephesians 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. Ephesians 3:7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace, given me through the working of His power. Ephesians 3:9 and to illuminate for everyone the stewardship of this mystery, which for ages past was hidden in God, who created all things. Ephesians 4:7 Now to each one of us grace has been given according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Colossians 1:25 I became its servant by the commission God gave me to fully proclaim to you the word of God, 1 Timothy 1:4 or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God's work, which is by faith.

[@PastorStOnge]

@@W.451 We need to make Every Minute Count There are those here actually hungry for god's truth and they are why I am here.. There are people, Christians and non-Christian, who will challenge you on every word you will share about the Bible. And there are Christians and non-Christians who will receive it like water to a thirsty man... Make sure the ones you are giving all your time to is the one the Lord has bought your way. And shake off the leeches. Proverbs said this about a Fools; they despise wisdom 1:7,22 10:21 23:9...right in their own eyes 12:15...deceitful 14:8...scornful 10:23 14:9...speech is full of foolishness 15:2, 14...does not want wisdom and understanding 18:2. Proverbs said this about a Wise man; The wise inherit honor, delights in wisdom, will hear and increase in learning. DO NOT FORSAKE WISDOM, AND SHE WILL PROTECT YOU...4:6 HE THAT WALK WITH WISE MEN SHALL BE WISE...13:20

[@claudiaholmes8468]

The only “rapture” in the Bible is when Jesus returns after the final trumpet. Upon His return; the dead in Christ will rise up first, then those Christians on earth will be ‘caught up’... There is no removing anyone from the tribulation. God’s Grace is sufficient, He won’t take us from it, He will take us through it.

[@markanthony3275]

You mistake the final trump with the final trumpet judgement in Revelation...the two are not the same thing. Jesus himself said "Pray that you might escape..." Luke 21:34-36.

[@Itsmeagain828]

@Tomas So you won't trust the savior if he makes you go thru tribulation?! Your words not mine. See thats one of the problems I have with this false doctrine of yours. And that is what it is. I guess all of the people who have been persecuted for Christ over the centuries aren't as important as this generation, hence why we are saved from tribulation, right? Makes no sense. I know pretrib rapture. I grew up with it. Didn't make sense then and it still doesn't now. Our blessed hope is eternity with Christ not a hasty escape before trib. The saints are the church in revelation. No where are they called tribulation saints. Thats just people like Barry Scarborough and 2434 generation tickling your ears. If you want to believe that fine but stop trying to convince other people. Stay in your groups. Your fig tree prophecy interpretation should be proven wrong by May of next year. I hope most of you give it up then and prepare your hearts for whats to come. But if I know you like I think I do you will just move the goal post yet again. We will face persecution. Many of us will die. Thats scary stuff but not scarier than living eternity without Christ. Faith will be all we have left and maybe thats a good thing. In the meantime I prepare to stand or to run if need be. One thing we can agree on. The end is nigh.

[@tammywatson5238]

AAMMMEEENNN

[@tammywatson5238]

@Tomas Claudi understands perfectly...she has obviously read Revelation and guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth.

[@mdelaney9008]

Margaret Macdonald was her name. In those days there were theological debaters just like today and just like today, they didn’t really understand the scripture. But these debaters were considered by their peers to be “ authorities” when in fact they were pretty ignorant of facts.

[@FiggsNeughton]

What you say makes sense, however, what about the part in the Gospel (can't remember, maybe Matthew?) where Jesus mentions that two women will be walking in a field, one will be taken and one will be left behind? What is that referring to? I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. Any help would be appreciated!

[@sarahchan5604]

Matthew chapter 24

[@FiggsNeughton]

@@sarahchan5604 Thanks! But that verse makes it seem like there really will be a literal disappearance of God's people.

[@MK-mv3lu]

I've been taught that this is a reference to the Second Coming and those "taken" are actually taken to condemnation. Interesting topic for sure!

[@charlesrogers822]

"Jesus is coming again just don'r say when!" Barbara Brown Taylor para phrased.

[@dafflad1]

He has come

[@jennijones1532]

There is a timeline given. Provided time runs in a linear fashion. Judgment started on Aug 21 2017. With the total solar eclipse. Another total solar eclipse with hit America in April 2024. Almost 7 years later. Before that we were given many tetrads of blood moons to warn us that judgment was coming. There are 7 seals light sentence for the house of God, 7 trumpets for the world and lukewarm believers, and 7 vials which is the wrath of God. 7+7+7= 21 period of pure judgment and tribulation. And with time for the two pauses, reign of the Ac, and battle of Armageddon it works out to a 33 year period of judgment. Jesus will not touch down until after the battle of Armageddon around 2050.

[@jennijones1532]

There is a timeline given. Provided time runs in a linear fashion. Judgment started on Aug 21 2017. With the total solar eclipse. Another total solar eclipse with hit America in April 2024. Almost 7 years later. Before that we were given many tetrads of blood moons to warn us that judgment was coming. There are 7 seals light sentence for the house of God, 7 trumpets for the world and lukewarm believers, and 7 vials which is the wrath of God. 7+7+7= 21 period of pure judgment and tribulation. And with time for the two pauses, reign of the Ac, and battle of Armageddon it works out to a 33 year period of judgment. Jesus will not touch down until after the battle of Armageddon around 2050.

[@DellaDykeborn]

Exactly! The "rapture" teaching is very new to Christianity. I will say that Clarence Larkin made some great maps illustrating dispensationalism.

[@biblehistoryscience3530]

DellaDykeborn, the rapture rescue was suppressed for most of church history because the Roman Catholic Church enforced Augustine's new Amillennial doctrine. The rapture began to be rediscovered in the 1500-1600s when English Protestants disobeyed their reformed leaders by translating the Bible into English and spreading God's word around. Then people started believing God's word rather than what their leaders wanted them to think God had said, which was actually what Augustine wrote.

[@HarpazoReady2022]

@@biblehistoryscience3530 Oh my *thank you* for explaining that. So many people just don’t know history & the repercussions of it. Videos like this have created the apostasy in our churches. People don’t know what dispensations are & that it’s in the Bible (Ephesians 3:2) They listen to these false teachers so they think the rapture isn’t true. The original Greek word for it found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 . It’s Harpazo. It means to snatch upward. We know it will happen. We just don’t know exactly when. However, Jesus told us in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 we will be rescued from his coming wrath on the ungodly and again in Revelation 3:10. These are indicators of the season it will happen in. We see right now the judgement seals listed through Revelation 6 are ready to start: war, economic collapse, famine & plagues. And the church has to be gone before that officially starts with the signing of the covenant by the Antichrist (Daniel 9:27) So many good prophecy teachers on KZbin that comb through the verses are Chuck Missler, John MacArthur, Tom Hughes, Jan Markell, Jimmy Evans, David Jeremiah, Don Stewart, Mark Henry, Brandon Holthaus, Jack Hibbs. & Brett Meador, to name a few. Prophecy is talked about in the Bible, too. 2 Peter 1:19 refers to the prophetic word of God as reliable. Revelation 1:3 says blessed is the one that reads aloud the words of this prophecy. Revelation 22:7 in conclusion of the book, John closes by repeating what the angel says to him, Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book. Look upward, our deliverance draws near- Luke 21:28 ✝️🎺

[@rickdalbey6009]

Many of the early church fathers taught the rapture including Eusebius, Irenaeus, Cyprian and Efraem of Nisibis. "“The coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see it with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: "Woe to those who desire to see the Day of the Lord!" Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins. And so brothers, most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of this world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early.” Efraem 373 AD. On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies, Church Father Irenaeus describes the pre-tribulation Rapture when he writes: And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” In 1200 Brother Dolcino taught that "the Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist. And that then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth for the purpose of preaching against Antichrist. In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit scholar, taught that the Revelation of John was in the future, the “end times” and also taught that a Rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation. Increase Mather (1639-1723), was a pastor, scholar, and was the first President of Harvard College. Paul Boyer has noted that this Puritan scholar proved "that the saints would be caught up into the air beforehand, thereby escaping the final conflagration." This teaching from Increase Mather was an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine. Joseph Mede, (1586-1683) called the “Father of modern interpretation” wrote in 1672, "I will add this more, namely, what may be conceived to be the cause of this RAPTURE of the saints on high to meet the Lord in the clouds, rather than to wait His coming to earth....What if it be, that they may be PRESERVED during the Conflagration of the earth and the works thereof, 2 Pet.3:10, that as Noah and his family were preserved from the Deluge by being lift up above the waters in the Ark; so should the saints at the Conflagration be lift up in the clouds unto their Ark, Christ, to be preserved there from the deluge of fire, wherein the wicked shall be consumed?" ("The Works of Joseph Mede," 1672, London edition, Book IV, p.776) Witherington is not accurate in claiming that the rapture originated with John Darby.

[@Jesus_is_Lord_316]

lol. the Rapture was taught by Jesus, Paul, James, Peter and John. Nothing new about it!

[@doncleveland1245]

Yes! The rapture delusion! The one where 4 year olds get raptured before the mark, and don't burn in the lake of fire for eternity! The one where Matthew 19:14 says "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Do you know what the kingdom of heaven is?? Apparently you missed out on that lesson at church. You are welcome, sir. Grace to you.

[@donnafacha967]

Have you read 1 Thessalonians 4? Especially verse 17 - where it states "then we who are alive and remain will be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.