Where Do We Go From Here? - What's Next for Star Wars X-Wing

Let's talk a little bit about the next steps forward for X-Wing.
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[@petervonbleichert9688]

I would like the community to go back to 2.0, start from there, take what they like from 2.5, and continue on

[@bombber123]

That would have my vote and probably have the vote of my local group since 2.5 killed a lot of interest.

[@RickAntilles]

Mean while you can try out 2.0 Legacy. We have been here all along and there is a lot of resurgence in 2.0 interest.

[@nicholasmiller1909]

As long the objective stuff is kept, I'd be on board for that. As much the general dogfighting has always been enjoyable it did become stale for my play group

[@compel6552]

As someone who only started rebuying stuff after the announcement, I think my ideal send-off would be, "tarot sized standard loadouts with points pdf for pretty much all the ships and as many pilots as viable." That would just allow a continuing 'sit down and play a game' forever, just like it was a board game.

[@Myrrden]

My support for any future Asmodee/AMG products died when they killed off X-wing/Armada.

[@markcalhoun8219]

Yeah Netrunner dying killed my enthusiasm, X-wing dying earned my contempt. But then FFG died a while ago being absorbed by a behemoth like Asmodee which itself has been bought and sold.

[@HeadCannonPrime]

I have a very bad taste in my mouth for ALL of Asmodee/AMG products. They bought out Fantasy Flight and just outright murdered almost all their games. Its the kind of thing you would expect in the video game market, not the board game.

[@markcalhoun8219]

@@HeadCannonPrime venture capital knows no boundaries nor shame.

[@mandomerlie1997]

I’m not going to call AMG malicious but if you wanted to be I think changing the rules to divide the community right before you cut it loose would be the way to do it. Hopefully we can come together and lead X wing better than they did. Thanks for the video!

[@greywarden1393]

That's what upsets me the most. AMG split the player base in half and then abandoned the game. If they weren't going to continue it they should have just left it alone at 2.0. Now like you said its going to be significantly harder agreeing on a rule set going forward.

[@ABarbarian93]

Agree. I stopped playing at 2.5 because I didnt enjoy the new rule set but loved 1.0 and 2.0

[@lyianx]

To me, that, above all else.. invalidates the 2.5 rule set.

[@Squirl513]

I vote 2.0 personally. 👍

[@Zanollo5]

I thing the community deserved it. Who accepted the stupid game 2.5 version is, deserved all this shit.

[@superblue1971]

With Paul Heaver leading the charge it will be a 2.5 rule set since he’s an AMG boy.

[@jmcyncousineau1316]

The peak of X-Wing popularity was right when The Force Awakens came out. When they released that new TFA starter set, they were flying off the shelves, 64 player events occured every week and several times a year we would see 256+ player events. It was riht after that we got the System Open Series of events. It was the 'good old days' and I am happy I took part in it as it will very likely never get back to being so popular.

[@badgerwildgaming6908]

Well this game had something for all three groups of starwars players four if you count ledgers fans.

[@big16joe]

X-wing died after 1.0

[@Loxen86]

Im more of a 2.0 guy, since thats what i joined. 2.0 refined would be nice, if i knew what it was

[@dblevins343]

While XWA is figuring out what's happening, you may want to consider joining the X-Wing Legacy community in the meantime since we don't know how long XWA will take to set up and get going. Legacy is essentially 2.0 with the points for the new stuff included.

[@HairyNick]

Very well said. Unity is the key thing here. I'm worried that too many players are just prepping themselves for dissapointment by wishing too hard that their exact version of preferred X-wing is what get's supported. Compromise will be needed all round.

[@TheThoughtDonor]

So glad you've shared your thoughts.

[@petervonbleichert9688]

Glad your back and still hairy

[@petervonbleichert9688]

Word

[@wscrivner]

I read that in your voice. 😂 Glad you're back!

[@dblevins343]

It's a tough time for sure. As someone who loves 2.0, I've honestly had a blast these past 2 years. I've been happy for the 2.5 players and have always wished them well. But I know I personally never clicked with 2.5 despite liking a lot of the ideas 2.5 had. I'm just hoping the communities unite, even if we play slightly different variation of the game. I plan to keep playing, but I don't want to lose the fun I've been having with Legacy these past 2 years. If XWA makes a version I can enjoy, I may be there. But, I know I'll still always enjoy Legacy too unless it's changed drastically.

[@BUChiAlpha]

I still love the game. I wish there would be new product, but I have what I need to play for years. I'm not going to junk a great game just because production has stopped.

[@Puzzu]

Agreed. Have so much content from all 7 factions since 1.0 days to play diff combos of ships forever and the existing points are good enough to go by esp since I don’t do tournaments. Love this game, not thinking of selling any of it.

[@njh113]

Imperial Assault still has a presence at Adepticon through a community-lead group, named the Imperial Assault Continuity Project IACP. I don't think X-Wing had the balance issues IA did, but the IACP has gone about rebalancing some neglected models, with months of community testing, feedback, and voting. They've also added new models to help keep the game and META fresh. Playing virtually in Vassa, proxies and 3d printers have all made it possible to keep playing with representative models. I think it's totally viable for the community to rally behind an organization, keep playing, and hopefully enjoying new content.

[@dblevins343]

As someone who's enjoyed playing X-Wing Legacy (2.0) for the past 2 years, I applaud you for not listing either group by name. Like you said, there is no rush. As a Legacy player, IDK if they plan on conjoining with X-Wing Alliance or not but I know there is a discussion going on. Heres to waiting and seeing.

[@mrfusion3342]

I’ve not played X-Wing before, but have been interested in picking it up once I saw AMG had the licence, I was waiting for the first AMG branded boxes to buy in, so I at least knew I was getting the ‘right’ expansions. Reading comments here - I’m a bit more pragmatic and really think that all that happened here was the game was becoming less profitable. Asmodee took it from FFG handed it to AMG along with Armada and Legion, right as they were releasing their Starwars miniature game. I can’t really blame AMG for it. I really feel like they were also screwed over a little. The Xwing and Armada communities really didn’t like them almost instantly, with what seemed like no fault of AMG decisions that they had to carry out. From the comments here; I stopped playing when it moved to 2.0 because I already had all the ships, or; I stopped playing when 2.0 was changed because I already had all the ships. Seems like the reason it ended. It really is limited IP, the fact that it lasted son long shows how popular it is. But my experience differed, it was AMG has X-Wing… oh cool, I looked at that when I saw it on Table Top, but all the rules and versions was confusing. Ok now it’s being refreshed, maybe I’ll try it…. Watched heaps of Crabbok - cool sort of makes sense. Oh. Wait. I can’t buy the Han Millennium falcon? I don’t want Landos. Can I buy some X-Wings? No. I don’t want Poe’s X-Wing. Why can’t I buy the ships I want? New Star Wars was all that is left. I’m old and don’t have connection to the new stuff, All the old IP has been printed and is now out of stock. I guess they don’t re-print it because the community all already have it. So AMG are tasked by Asmodee to make it profitable again. Maybe we do ships on sprues? me- sounds good community- NO how dare you even take this from FFG Maybe we can clean up the rules and all the cards? Me- oh yes please this is super confusing looking at 10 years worth of meta. Community - No leave it as 2.0, also Community - No go back to 1.0, also Community no update the rules! me- ummm… what do I buy? Maybe we can sell you scenario boxes? Me - ooh that sounds interesting, the ship combat is cool, but then I know what to buy. Community - No! Only dogfights. Me- can I buy red team X-wings? How do I do that? AMG- Ok so we have a community that wants things to stay the same, or go back, which is totally fair. But that community has already bought the ‘good’ ships from the popular Star Wars, we can’t get new players in and the costs to print are high. Reprinting things is risky, because most of the community already owns it anyways. Wait… how many more people do we need to hire to support this!? We can’t expand that fast! No one is buying that much of the new things anyway. Me (and other potential new players) - oh hey what are all these weird shape tie fighters? Jango Fetts ship? Where is Bobas? Oh. Razor crest - cool I know that one… but it doesn’t fight the Death Star. What other options are there? It sucks, but games based in IP like this all have an expiration. Imperial Assault- first few expansions Jabba, Boba, Chewie…then… people from the star was I haven’t watched. Great game, but it’s great because I got to use Vader. Legion will tap out too, it has a bit more legs, but how many variations of storm troopers can there be? You do 4 versions of Luke, 3 of Vader/Anakin, 3 of Obi Wan, hair bun Leia, Endor Leia, General Lia and then… diminishing returns. Shatter Point already has cantina R2 MCP also has its days numbered, I think there is more IP potential, but there is already doubles of the most popular characters, and they are moving to dioramas and terrain packs. I’d totally buy a Mojo-verse faction, but that would sell at 1/10 the amount as a Civil War Captain America, or a Stark Houseparty Protocol box that allows you to run multiple versions of Tony Stark in a single team… now here’s Rescue! But in the version of the suit in that one scene in that movie that was out 8 years ago! Ehhh… I think the saddest thing here is the splintered rules, and yes, it’s on AMG to fix that, leave the game in a viable state. Do a swan song rules re-write officially ‘undo’ 2.5 if that’s the case, do it with FFG as consultants - not everyone will be happy, but at least you are left with the ‘offical’ rules. But the community will still likely always be split between v1 and v2

[@michaelriley1118]

I bought into X-Wing/Armada because of the pre-painted models (aside from enjoying the game). Whole shelves dedicated to displaying the models. I've avoided buying into other games because of the need to paint (not a skill I desire to develop).

[@fullmetalgamers1276]

Welcome to the realm of fan made releases and local meta discussions. Us wizkids clicky tech players have kept our hobby going loooooong after ot died with new releases, cards and dials, now with 3d printing the sky is the limit. I wish you all the best

[@michaelcalabretta8158]

I’m personally rooting to go back to a 2.0ish system. I really don’t like ROAD or 20pt list buildingz

[@Squirl513]

Same.

[@ghostapi874]

I’m glad armada doesn’t have as many competing rule changes as x-wing. I was positively surprised by how respectful members and leaders are towards feedback on the main armada community effort discord. Give’s me Hope that people will be willing to sacrifice a few preferences for greater unity.

[@MasterJediDude]

I’ll never support AMG again. They did these games a huge disservice and never truly supported the line. I’ve already thrown my Marvel CP on eBay to clear my palette. I look forward to what the community can do with X-Wing.

[@ignaccolofab2664]

The reason why I didn’t get Shatterpoint when it came out…poor support to X-Wing.

[@scopedog9197]

It must go the way of Battletech and StarFleet Battles...fan maintened, fan curated...

[@Slurgical_3D_Terrain_Channel]

Probably will. I’m not selling my x-wing, love the game and model fits for RPG space combat

[@jmcyncousineau1316]

@@Slurgical_3D_Terrain_Channel RPG space combat was how I was introduced to the game. My buddy was running a SW RPG and he bought a handful of X-Wings, YWings and A-Wings in 2013-14 to use in space combat. My buddy did a few events, since they were happening every week at the time. I got curious and the dove in and bought all the Empire Stuff and completed the Rebel ships he was missing. Year later he told me he was selling his xwing stuff as he felt the game was going to peter out... I bought his stuff. Little did he know the game was just getting started and it peaked in 2015-17.

[@Slurgical_3D_Terrain_Channel]

@@jmcyncousineau1316 my story is a bit similar to yours. My friend stopped playing x-wing and was also using it for RPG. He switched to Armada. I bought all his x-wing collection to add to my starter box

[@Hedgehobbit]

Starfleet Battles is still alive. There are new products every couple of years.

[@GreyG88479]

My X-Wing community died with the introduction of 2.0 unfortunately. Many people in my FLGS has plenty of the old stuff.

[@matthewlaxon828]

thats about what happened with my old group. a lot of them moved onto legion, and then from there to 40k

[@marcethington3942]

Please can you do one for Armada because it's been a hard time for me with Star Wars.

[@ghostapi874]

He said at the start he will be doing a follow up video for armada. We will get a better perspective from his next video but from what I’ve seen armada is more unified than X-Wing. The armada community members are either already engaging with the community effort discord or they’re waiting for worlds 2025 before deciding. But there doesn’t seem to be another big competing community effort other than the main one.

[@toxiccandy7888]

I think to bring the community together you have to include both sides heavy hitters, which it kinda sounds like is not going to happen, but is a must. My Road fix roll once, or bid once and go every other round after that.

[@dblevins343]

I know a lot of players who hate ROAD who are more than fine with ROBD or even Alternating. So there is a good chance for a neutral ground there I think.

[@toxiccandy7888]

@@dblevins343 I think the more competitive people want as little randomness as possible. So having One extra dice roll a game is better then one every round.

[@dblevins343]

@toxiccandy7888 agreed. The most competitive players I've talked to still like the bid system the most. However, most of them seem fine with a compromise of ROBD or Alternating. I personally always play ROBD but I'm a casual player. It's kind of funny, because I absolutely hate ROAD and yet I love ROBD.

[@Zanollo5]

​@@dblevins343me too, always played casual robd with 2.0 rules. Never bid, 2.5 list, rules or road.

[@mattlberge]

We had a great community around wave 4 through the jumpmasters around 2014-2016 too and we all kind of went our separate ways. Thinking about having a one time 1.0 reunion tournament at the FLGS with the old crew, just to give the game a send off and relive our old stories.

[@lexington476]

I've been out since the change to 2.0. Same for STAW. Still have both collections, but have not played in many years at this point.

[@coolhandscoot68]

I know a local gaming store near me is still moving forward with play with both standard and extended for x wing

[@thursty4boardgames944]

A few months ago i moved out of a black mold infested apartment to a new one and had to leave my x wing stuff behind. I never played it competitively but was a more casual thing for my friends family and I. It sounds like my hope of buying my 2.0 rebel and empire collection of ships back to be absent. I hope this community keeps this game alive. With the incoming game of heroscape bringing the option of painted vs. unpainted minis, maybe they could do a model like that. Battletech was always a cheaper alternative but it’s a shame because I love the design of x wing so much, so clean and fun. I hope people keep playing as long as they have their ships.

[@refreshdaemon]

My local playgroup has only been playing 2.0 since none of us play competitively at tournaments (and don't even know where we'd find those) and our ships didn't come with 2.5 material, so we're probably going to stick with that. We sometimes do retro 1.0 nights here and there too. I do think that if we get new players we are going to 100% allow as much proxy ships and cards. We already basically allow that anyway, although it was currently only allowed for testing, but since we're not getting new product, I guess we're 100% for proxies now as it's the only way to get new players involved.

[@Jonathan-zo4bf]

I look forward to a ruleset that takes the experiences of the last few years into account and uses that to make something good. I'm not really invested in 2.0 or 2.5, but do hope that a ruleset will enable using huge ships, epic play rules (including formations), but also the scenario packs. I play at home, casually, and I just want to have a good, tried and tested basis for a fun and varied game.

[@donjuandon]

Great video! As a long-time x-wing player I was sad to hear the news, but it's been pretty clear that it quietly died awhile ago. I appreciate the closure and hope that the community can unify and turn this into a community-driven game. 3D printed ships, scenarios, co-op campaigns, a rules committee of some sort for competitive play, etc. Bring it on!!

[@josephmoberly2109]

I’m interested to find what the community decides. Depending on that I might even hop back in to x wing

[@ralfn9629]

Can't wait for the Armada-equivalent of this video. (And very sorry I address this here, but I bought all in on Armada and never played X-Wing.) But I like to address maybe some thoughts for your upcoming Armada stream-equivalent: The main 2 problems of Armada are: B) only one super-duper large ship and A) (The main problem) Two factions have hardly ANY ships (Separatist and Republican). I had high hope that the Rapid Reinforcements would address the main problem; to through 4 factions back into two and play more or less with the ships across all 4 factions as you like. Even this minor glimmer of hope has now been extinguished. As you said many times, we have everything we need to keep on playing -- including official rules -- but we need to be able to choose different ships from (4) different factions to play with in ONE fleet (to just be more flexible). For this there only need to be some minor rule changes (if we cannot come up with more future Rapid Reinforcements for ships): Ships can be (captured and) used across all factions BUT SPECIAL commanders need to be faction specific. What do you think? Would this work? As for the "B"-problem more/new -- and very large ships -- I have NO solution. Gloomhaven-fans were able to create a non-official Kickstarter-campaign for a whole other new main box game, even this whole think wasn't dead (as we know with JotL and Frosthaven), but someone has to pick this up and produce new ships/cardboard and cards.

[@misomiso8228]

If you could do a video on the differences between 2.0 and 2.5 that would be very helpful. ty

[@warwolf383]

I'm going in sorta between I'm down for anything so long as there's printed pdf's that we can save on like a flash drive, and sorta at this... well, seeing as the jig is up, it's gonna be up to us to really preserve it as the stewards of the game... like you said (as well as a couple cheesy action movie lines would echo) its not over until we stop playing...

[@Nihilp]

proxy and 3d printed stuff will save the party, it will be fun if they release a sort of book with all the stuff needed to play a new last version of the game

[@yendub]

As someone who has seen games die and picked up with community support, it truly needs to be COMMUNITY support and lead. Having known faces in groups is fine, but then it becomes an elitist gatekept boys club. Until the COMMUNITY has a fair shake at deciding where/how to proceed, the game will be fractured.

[@RaptureVtM]

Unfortunately, it's human nature to be divided. Unification is very rare these days. Even with something as simple as agreeing on a unified rules system.

[@Slurgical_3D_Terrain_Channel]

I have a lot of homebrew rules and making 3D terrain with special rules for multi level combat to work with terrain, like ravine, city and such. Will be releasing terrain with those homebrew rules in the fall

[@TabletopUpgrades]

It’s potentially a really exciting time, look at bull signal games and what they have done with NetRunner, the same could happen with X wing. Imagine a world where every card is available for free you are allowed to freely proxy ships and that are a menagerie of 3-D print partners along with a collective of people who love the game and I’m not driven by profit. I’m thankful to people like you who are thinking about the options seriously and I can’t wait to see what is in the pipeline . ❤

[@thearmoredferaligatr3130]

Thank you for this information, I was thinking on starting one of these types of games, the Star Wars ones I mean, with these two being canceled I’ll start getting some stuff for legion

[@stevensherry4993]

Very well said, however a point could be made that bringing 2.0 back, maybe would bring back more than 1/2 the player base. I know of more people that have left because of negative experiences with 2.5 play than people who have stayed because the 2.5 rules are “official”. I think this is better handled in a format way, much like Magic. Magic has so many formats and yet they don’t bicker over which is better. I think 1.0, legacy 2.0 and 2.5 should be treated as complete formats and let’s bring some locally supported tournaments. Forget the OP kits the stores will never see them anyways. Plus I would rather win a ship or get store credit anyway. Or maybe a Star Wars related something (trophy)

[@MrLofwyr]

1 year after the 2.0 came out, almost every single x-wing community and event had a drop of about 50% on the number of players. The problem with x-wing, was 2.0. The only solution to x-wing would be a x-wing 1.0 with some corrections, not a 2.0. 2.0 changed the game more than it should and didn't changed for the better.

[@christopherhicks2396]

Remember folks, we don’t need big corporations permission to ENJOY our games and KEEP playing. We are free to support each other, use our imagination and HAVE FUN! Keep the Force Alive! 😃You are all awesome 😎

[@Devgal89]

I'm mainly just upset we don't get standard load out cards for the rest of the ships. That was the only thing AMG did that I liked.

[@kaisquared90]

I reckon xwa will come up with more standard load outs. And they'll probably be more balanced compared to the ones AMG released

[@dominicsevilla1189]

Proxies are what our playgroup will move too probably. Though Im going to keep getting as much official stuff as I can. I am almost done buying CIS stuff and then will be moving onto a different faction and keep going until I cant anymore lol

[@electricfootballhero1349]

The harder players attempt to impose their will and "unify" the community, the more it will fracture. All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.

[@sloths-df3gf]

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more players will slip through your fingers."

[@javierbeverido4579]

the first thing is a momentary rules set (that gets rid of the ugly objectives approach, reintegrates generic pilots and picks the best from 1 and 2.0 rules), paper-wing was crucial to the promotion of the game overseas when it's publishing started, papercraft is pure creativity and FUN (I know its controversial in it's "officialty" but to imbue interest new ships are URGENT), so paper and 3dprints must be in; some sort of new starting point for new and old players it has to be built by the community: major companies now give away their core book (Corvus Belli kinda started this, for good, and now other publishers do it. FREE but consolidated, clear rules, available for everyone are a must); schedule to integrate missing content, aka ships, scenarios and may be, but hope not, game modes i.e: 2-4 waves a year should be community approved new ships (thus offering ship card and dial designed by the community, while the players are free to go scratch, paper or printed builds by their own here), and eventually plan and coordinate limited runs of printed-molded prepainted model ships to be sold at major events. "Available for everyone" should be the approach, it's what the current IP holder never did... Just sayin': Count me in.

[@whittaker007]

There is an "official" X-Wing Alliance made up of long standing members of the community who will be managing decisions for the future of the competitive format going forward. Rest assured there will be a single ruleset decided on before the end of AMG support. Until then AMG 2.5 ruleset remains the official one. Of course there will continue to be splinter groups continuing to play 1.0, 2.0 rulesets, and they will live under the homebrew umbrella along with casual formats for multi-player, RPG style campaigns etc. Heroes of the Aturi Cluster for example has been a long-standing fan favourite, and I personally am intending to contribute to that project with expansions, making it more accessible to casual audiences.

[@steveisaak4320]

I have x wing and armada, will you be doing this for armada as well?

[@Crabbok]

Yes

[@AJRAR1979]

AMG and Asmodde don't deserve any trust in future games. specially Star wars games. I'll try to get the few ships I'm missing from X-Wing and Armada, and I'll continue to 3d print the ships they don't cover. the game will continue to exist and be played, but it's AMG loss in the end. FFG should have kept both games. they were the best

[@derekromero2331]

Is TFA starter set the 2.0 set? Or is the red Luke and 2 ties starter 2.0?

[@breadguytv]

In my town it was big.. I purchased a bunch of ships and it died shortly after.. always made me sad it was such a fun game

[@nittneylion84]

Not sure what else was really needed to play the games. I stopped collecting for X-Wing when it “upgraded” from 1.0 to 2.0. I never really could get the conversion packages to “work”. They messed it up for me.

[@flyingtosave]

would you suggest that I buy a large collection of X-Wing now? I believe it's worth around $600.

[@skiprayable]

I'd be surprised if AMG does anything else for X-wing / Armada. The product is no longer in print, any updates that shake up the meta will just make people upset because you won't be able to go to the store and buy the ships to play the new meta.

[@Ch3f81]

I'd like to think AMG looked at unpainted/sprue based options for both X-Wing and Armada, but I'm not holding my breath. While it's great for homes to host games with 3d printed models, even updated cards from AMG would have been nice

[@vev4104]

Sadly News! It would be wonderful if it would convert this two (X-wing and Armada) games into PC video games. (Like for example: Axis & Allies 1942 Online.)

[@signatus00]

There's already a standard, GTs are played in AMG points until Worlds. Imho the ideal is to have a points review done by The Alliance adopted by AMG for the remaining competitive season. After that, we should move forward, respecting the input that Legacy players might have.

[@Wimma77]

Thankfully we still have HOTAC!

[@shaunkrogulski9619]

While disappointing it isn't surprising and I prefer that they just admit to the communities that they can't support these games any longer instead of stringing them along etc.

[@Dack24]

I have a demo game scheduled with my friend. He is excited to fly the Millenium Falcon. Local meta is small and still 2.0, but we are open to a new comunity standard in the future.

[@johntate1360]

Maybe the new star trek game you was talking about will take x-wings place.

[@dblevins343]

It won't. While I think it's a cool game, it's nothing like X-Wing or Armada. It's not trying to replace these games, it's trying to be something very unique which is pretty cool.

[@danepatterson8107]

Any of you who bought into Shatter Point and MCP helped betray the X-Wing and Armada communities. Supporting AMG helped destroy those two titles. You could SEE this coming when they forced missions into a dogfight game - they didn't understand the game or the player base.

[@lloydpowell5683]

‘…slaughter…’ 😂 ‘..I sense…AMG…3.0…the dark side has never been stronger…’

[@scubaguymi]

Actually the community should completely abandon amg and asmodee. No one should play in anything they organize. The community shoukd come together, plan the tourney season, create swag and run with it. Screw amg. Give them nothing. Edit: come on Crabbock. You saying we should let amg give us anything else has me wanting to unsubscribe... Give. Them. Nothing.

[@Checker123-j4z]

and here I thought I was alone in this way of thinking, considering development of new models stopping is no different from outright leaving the game system to die. Like the community kinda needs to get a foothold on organizing events and playgroups now, not in the future after the world tournament is over since by then it's too late to organize properly without major breakaway of major tribes within X-wing

[@Dstinct]

Good luck using any SW trademarks and iconography. Once Disney gets a whiff its done.

[@scubaguymi]

@@Dstinct no leg to stand on for a discontinued product. Have you not seen al lthe 3d prints available? disney can eat it, too.

[@dblevins343]

To my understanding, Asmodee isn't exactly happy about Armada and X-Wing going down hill either. I do not think their intentions when they passed these games onto AMG was for them to be dumped. I also don't think they saw the self sabotage AMG would (I believe) accidentally perform on X-Wing. Heck, I don't even think AMG meant to kill X-Wing. Armada, they never gave it a chance. X-Wing though, they did try. Unfortunately, despite having a lot of the talking points on ways to possibly improve the game, their execution in what they provided as 2.5 was worse in most regards (IMO). I don't think AMG realizes how controversial their changes to X-Wing would be. I think that's in large part due to them not really understanding X-Wing all that well. Once 2.5 killed sales, I think AMG decided to mostly give up on it because they care more about their other games and really wanted to focus on them. Not to mention X-Wing and Armada were probably about to have more cost increases and they didn't want to invest their effort into games they already deemed dead. At the end of the day, I don't think Asmodee or AMG truly wanted these games to fail. I do think AMG screwed up X-Wing big time but I think it was a mostly due to ignorance and a lack of care (they'd do anything to save MCP or Shatterpoint).

[@scubaguymi]

Probably valid points. No company wants a decent sales game to tank. Good luck keeping mcp and sh!tterpoint alive. All the ill-will they have garnered won't help gain new players,and the decision to go a different scale from Legion ia just another sign they could two flying f@cks about the community.

[@brianjones3321]

I'm in Legion so probably still play AMG for now.

[@exxeshobbytisch]

I‘ve been playing Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition until „Old World“ came out. Now I will still play my beloved X-Wing as the 2.0 legacy edition. At the moment I am even buying ships that I don’t own. I like the idea of having a complete collection without fear of missing out. Hail to OUR hobby. 🧙🏼‍♂️🍀👍🏼

[@exxeshobbytisch]

…and @Crabbok „community brewed“ rules may be better for the game because it „misses“ the financial driven imbalances.

[@littleurnofarabia6458]

I hate to be that guy but here it goes. All this community support is awesome only if you have a community to support. My local Xwing group died years ago. None of this community generated support will bring the old players back nor will it bring in new players. Yes, I could play on TTS or something similar, but it just isn't the same.

[@lyianx]

Community is divided. And i feel like, while yes, a fair number of players didn't want the 2E rule set revamp, i feel like i heard most of them quit entirely and sell their collection over continuing to run 1E rule set (tho some did do that). I feel like i heard maaaany more discontent when 2.5 happened than i heard over 2E and thats where the real split happened. 2E was an advancement and "remaster" of 1E rules, where as 2.5 felt more like a complete shift or "re-imagining", retaining little of the original rule set (see Witcher books vs Witcher Netflix series).

[@coolhandscoot68]

I am excited for worlds 25 because I live just outside of Milwaukee

[@arkhamwarden]

If the community wants to continue to play, they'll have to accept proxies at some point in the near future

[@CommanderDread]

If any new rules comes out all generics need to be dropped by at least 1pt and maybe an increase in loadout points for most pilots across the board. I also think 3D printing and custom cards are fine.

[@johnperrine7510]

The game still exists as long as people still play. Great point.

[@misomiso8228]

ELI5: What were the main differences in the rules between 2.0 and 2.5?

[@joegroves2517]

I expect the group with the past champs et al. will come to be dominant but I really hope they converge towards the 2.0 rules after worlds. I'll gladly play whatever version actually can get me some games though. I'm not sure that there were many people who were particularly invested and kept playing 1.0. We definitely lost people back then, but I expect most who would care enough about the game to keep going now were people who were invested enough to make that switch. X-wing was always a bit lacking in missions and I loved the ones they packed in with larger ships and sets in the early days, but AMG broke more than they added. But it's already been a lot of work to play if you weren't in a large city after 2.5 nuked the smaller communities, but guess it's time to learn TTS. I'd gone hard into Vassal and never really made the switch but I guess it's time to get with the times. Also, on the cost issue, wasn't one of the reasons that WizKids gave back in the day for mostly reprinting really old molds from a previous game for Attack Wing and never hitting the X-wing quality that they were paying licensing to FFG, who themselves licensed the flight path system from that previous warbird game? I'm quite excited for the new Star Trek game and hoping that'll fill some of the gap. For X-wing the amount of different products creating a store-shelf backlog could be part of the profitability problem, especially for reprints. If you're sending out new reprints to all the stores, not every place is going to have a player or two who've been trying to get any given oop item no matter how much global demand there is, so there's probably some inbuilt inefficiency there, though the lack of new players being brought in by dynamic support does make that a self-fulfilling prophecy of unprofitability.

[@fredbecerra1608]

Can the community leverage the license at AMG to print their own or crowdfund the Ahsoka's Jedi T-6, The Bad Batch's Omicron Class Attack Cruiser & Mando's N-1?

[@Tsotanga2]

We need to explore the exact reasons people like initiative control & bidding vs ROAD, what kind of granularity is good, what makes it easier/harder for newbies, how to improve loadouts, etc. There's no need to pick a winner, but we do need to comb through the rulesets and figure out exactly what's easy to agree on and what isn't. There is a timetable in place (worlds) and we should be talking ASAP because as much sense as it makes to continue 2.5 to that point, it'll also be the perfect place to 'announce' the consensus community project(s) in whatever form it takes. Those 'many months' are going to blow by before we know it and we need to have the hard conversations sooner than later.

[@toxiccandy7888]

My Guess is that ROAD creates more randomness, which most competitive players do not like. More dice rolls = more randomness. In casual games, randomness is fine. I always found it to be a funny juxtaposition that you try to precisely measure out your movements, but randomly decide what pilot goes first after you made your decisions on movement.

[@Tsotanga2]

@@toxiccandy7888 Yeah, I've heard the ROAD randomness claim a lot, but I don't think it's really accurate. ROAD only affects same-ini pilots and I think a bunch of people forget that your 6-skill ace will always fly after 5-skill pilots. Bidding low to get a pretty massive initiative bonus in game was definitely imperfect and unsatisfying. In the worst case scenario of a full 200 point list or a same-bid instance, you *still* had to flip a coin to determine initiative order. The variance was happening on a game-level rather than a movement-level. I can kind of understand why folks wouldn't want to have to worry about an additional axis of 'risky vs safe' initiative movements, but to claim that the game is less competitive because you have to consider a bigger, more risky play space doesn't jive with me. The game is already full of hidden dials and dice rolls and I don't think the overall influence of ROAD is any bigger than the bidding advantage roll-off randomness. What we're missing with initiative is player agency over initiative order. In 2.0 we had imperfect bidding that sets permanent initiative or a 'balanced' roll-off. In 2.5, we have more of that 'balanced' roll-off approach, just with more granularity and higher frequency in game. In neither 2.0 or 2.5 do players have a way to influence that initiative order within the game itself and I think that's where most of the 'bad feels' due to initiative consequences come from. I'd love to see options to allow players to either gain or lose initiative within the match as a result of player's flying/shooting skill. Two ideas: (1) The player who uses the fewest squad points determines only the starting initiative. If the last revealed maneuver in the round is not fully executed, the initiative must change hands. Poor flying can have consequences and the second player can try to position defensively in order to win that initiative boon. (2) Make ROAD rules default for most ships except single-ship initiative token holders (per skill level), with no ships starting with initiative tokens. First blood damage to a hull of a same-ini ship grants initiative token. Subsequent damage to the initiative holder by a different same-ini ship transfers the token. This simultaneously gives an incentive to engage first as well as provides a push-pull mechanism for same-ini pilots to fight over an initiative token. Another variant could allow you to lose initiative token for a variety of reasons (failed maneuver, crits, depletes, etc.) Honestly, I think there's good competitive gravy that we should try to preserve from both formats. Increasing the possible flight play space is not a bad thing. Neither is gaining more perfect information. My aim is to try and squeeze both aspects into a manageable mouthful. My biggest concern with these ideas is that it actually increases game complexity (and skill level) quite a bit and may make the game more obtuse for casual players. Having basic and 'advanced' (for tourney play) rules might be a good idea - I mean people have been homebrewing this kind of stuff already.

[@toxiccandy7888]

@@Tsotanga2 I do know that it applies to ships with same initiative, but choosing your dials then rolling for initiative removes perfect information. I prefer alternating first player, who wins ties, by round. How you determine the first is either bid, or as suggested by someone else, doing 1 roll before dials, say at the beginning of the game. so you have perfect information when doing your dials. Either seems to me better then every round after you have made your selections.

[@Tsotanga2]

@@toxiccandy7888 Yes, sorry wasn't saying 'you' didn't know, just that it's generally an oversight in the community. I know that I was confused in the early 2.0/2.5 discussions. 'Perfect information' is such a strange way to describe what's really 'partial perfect information'. The opponent's dials are hidden. The dice variance always exists in attacks/defense. It's true that you do know which ships are going to move by initiative order, but you don't know which ships of the same initiative will move first, and you don't have any idea what actions they'll take on their turn. In my view, that's hardly perfect information. But sure, you do have *less* information with a ROAD format. And I hear people who say that they enjoy having the most information possible before dials. But clearly the 2.5 folks feel like it's not a huge cost to enjoyment and I do wonder if in 3.0 we can do even more with initiative to make it earned rather than random (or alternating, which is similar). 2.0 folks also don't seem to recognize that 2.5 has increased the total number of possible viable moves in the game by decreasing the amount of known information. There are fewer 'best' moves in the 2.5 framework - and I can get that some people don't prefer that flavor, but I do think it objectively opens up the game to more possibilities, more risk-reward-payoff interactions. So I just hope that we can distill the best of both worlds: (1) Recognize that initiative is a huge information advantage and that assigning it randomly is improvable. (2) Increasing the possible dial/action play space makes for more exciting gameplay with risk-reward-payoff interactions. The exact solution can vary, but IF the 2.5+/3.0 community can agree on those two ideas I think we could come up with some interesting new rulesets. Personally, I think the solution is linked to in-game player agency in initiative determination, as described above. By all means if that's not interesting to you, stick to Legacy 2.0. Wild Space has been pretty awesome, after all. But I still think there are greener pastures if we look hard enough.

[@red9mm]

Personally I'm crushed that xwing is ending. There's so many ships that I wanted to come out. Epic could have gotten badass. Just genuinely sucks.

[@radamescorujo5578]

I aways felt FFG SHOULD HAVE used their own IP in twilight Imperium for a mini spaceship game.

[@PersonlApocalypz]

I think it’s inevitable that the community will fracture the different rule sets. Sadly, the community where I live has basically disappeared so it’s going to be a crapshoot here.

[@ryangreene338]

Man this sucks. I loved x wing back in the day and was just getting all my old stuff out again. So question. What do i use as a list builder now?

[@dblevins343]

I recommend YASB still. Depending on which format you play (2.5 or 2.0 Legacy) it supports both. You just have to seach for the exact version you want.

[@brianjones3321]

Love Hairy Nick!

[@arkhamwarden]

Is it still an X-Wing scene in Orlando?

[@fabi4867]

Hey bro, I'm in Orlando if you ever wanna catch a game at a game store or something

[@timthurston3877]

We are already playing legacy xwing with 3d printed ships that neither company wanted to make. We play with 3 main rules set's , 1. The original 1.0 rules, 2. The 2.0 rule set, 3. The 2.5 rule set, and 4. A hybrid that contains a mix of 2.0 and 2.5 and 3d printed ships. Our version of legacy is the fairest game system going forward.

[@johnvrolijk2582]

@crabbock do you think yasb Will keep the site going? I use it for my List building. Perhaps a community point adaption back to 2.0 for all the ships that came after the 2.5.

[@ignaccolofab2664]

It seems so.

[@dblevins343]

Point adaptations for all the ships post 2.5 back into 2.0 already exists. It uses the Legacy project's points. It's just in a different YASB website called YASB Legacy.

[@keithbuckner8157]

I'm not sure how printed ships will work. Disney is notorious for sending cease and desist letters for properties they own. Even for people doing things on a small scale. I wonder if they would allow 3d printed ships. Hopefully one day another company will pick up this game and continue production. For now, I'm now trying to fill my collection with the ships I've been wanting. Getting harder to find them though.

[@Helmsknight1]

I am keeping my fleets so that I can continue to play with my family.

[@badgerwildgaming6908]

Same me and my daughter bought this game by accident thinking it was a board game. Loved it ever sence.

[@lazerpearl1990]

It's probably just as well. Disney is destroying the Star Wars franchise anyway. With so much disappointment in the Star Wars fan base, I don't see many people wanting to purchase any Star Wars merchandise. It's sad.

[@big16joe]

X-wing took a severe hit to its community when 1.0 died. When they forced players to have to buy all new cardboard and cards to play, a lot of players left and never came back.

[@AJRAR1979]

How about creating a pool for the community to decide if 3d print ships should be allowed in official games?!

[@chadnine3432]

I switched to Legacy and never looked back. Stopped watching the big events because I have no interest in 2.5.

[@ltcwinger3123]

Star Wars CCG Players Committee already has the formula to keep this game going. Don't reinvent the wheel.

[@Ironbudha23]

The models are great and even if I cannot play, I can at least enjoy the models.

[@badgerwildgaming6908]

Ready the token coffers and fire the 3d printers. We will expand this game into the best table top around.

[@43jayboe]

What I hope we begin to see is more fan created content. OPR is an example but would just love to see what the fanbase does. My trust in companies like this is all but spent.

[@totalvoid6234]

You have to account for economies of scale remember. Most of the ships Star Wars fans are most interested in are already out.They might not be able to afford to make minis or reprints because not many x wing players would buy into it.

[@thebatei1186]

Sad to come to an end with so much left bring to the table.

[@Checker123-j4z]

My day was ok thanks. XD The way I see it, if development has already been cut, the community needs to begin organizing around the most popular rule set, don't try to compromise between three major rulesets because to be frank, X-wing was already divided, It's not like Warhammer or Legion where there is realistically only one ruleset. Warhammer Fantasy survived because they decide to stick to one ruleset and rallied those still interested in it. Not try to satisfy everyone that was in Warhammer Fantasy at the time, granted, those communities were much more centralized than say X-wing. Ironically Amada is actually in a better position since that community already gave up on support from the main company and organized under a unified group. I mean hell, I wanted to get into X-wing, but with the already divided nature of the game in NZ it was hard to find a unified set of rules to learn from, a decent chunk of people liked 1.0 way more and really broke any way to unify those interested in X-wing. X-wing sadly had the chance to redo themselves and ended up dooming itself, no wonder AMG gave up trying to fix the divide. DX I wouldn't be surprised if AMG comes out with an Epic size warships and fighters much like what GW's Horus Heresy Legion Titan size models so they can get the models onto a sprue, be unpainted so they can put less effort into the product line, and try to merge the Amada players with X-wing players.

[@AcheronBlade]

AMG could really screw things up with a last update before finally shutting down. Probably best to just leave it be.

[@nikator8097]

Why should the community still bother about AMG, their tournaments, and their communication? From a corporate viewpoint they are interested in a dying X-Wing (and Armada) if they have plans to publish new Star Wars spaceship games. Maybe next year at Adepticon they will present a new game alongside the end of X-Wing/Armada, so what we see now is an optimized communication to squeeze the last money out of X-Wing/Armada and constructing a rampart towards new games.

[@4seasonsmusic142]

Keep playing 2.0 for those who have invested. Keep Armada as is. Keep Legion as is. Play on.

[@altontheiss1861]

Do you think there is any chance Fantasy Flight Games might purchase X-Wing back ?

[@scubaguymi]

It's not about buying it back. Asmodee holds the liscence. They took these ganes from FFG and gave them to a company that had no.budiness getting them. Corporate weenies brought this disaster on us. Corporate weenies and marvel fanboys.

[@skyworthy1]

Maverick squadron plans to keep going