Where is China? | Zhang Weiwei & Kishore Mahbubani 当“中国模式”遇上“印度自信”，亚洲能携手征服未来吗？

#一勺思想圆桌会
620思想圆桌会的上半场来啦！中国研究院院长张维为老师对话新加坡前驻联合国大使马凯硕，全程字幕，还有之后的嘉宾互动、观众提问部分。两位学者本场针对政治制度、国际形势等等各个方面进行了非常深入的对话。当然，尤其是“中印”携手崛起、拥抱未来的愿景，会实现吗？

[@sysfunc8851]

Definitely, the peace between China and India is of the greastest importance for the collective rise of Asian countries. Prof Mahbubani has a good point.

[@yuxuanqin9011]

India has great culture and movies. China and India will have great culture connection with each other.

[@sint2548]

As 74 years old Thai, I have the opportunity to see two great Asian cultures transplanted and grown in Thailand. I am an atheist, respect Buddha as a great teacher but never worship him as God. I read very limited Indian literatures, only Ramayana, Mahabharata and Tagore books. But I do read more Chinese literatures. Despite the deep superstition in Hindu religion, there are a lot of wisdom behind which will be too long to write here. Before Tang Dynasty, Buddhism came to China who could open heartedly accept this new philosophy. During the various Chinese imperial dynasties, the Chinese even put Buddhism above their own Confucianism and Taoism, 釋 儒 道. Kalama Sutta of Buddhism and 儒家的格物致知 幾乎同出一轍。I hope China and India will find more common understanding to build a prosperous Asia. But we must always remind ourselves never to be arrogant and behave like a bully.

[@quanfung5958]

Not at current Indian Mind-Set of politicians ...they are just rubish , they learned how to lie, cheat in democratic elections as the western ...but took it to another blevel !!!

[@carly9702]

Chinese don't want war with Indian, But indian's leaders always breaks the balance as western power told him to.

[@mozart4128]

I am Indian and reside in Austria. I saw your nice words. I wish to communicate with you. My regards from Vienna

[@sint2548]

mozart4128 I will be pleased to communicate with you.

[@sint2548]

108 In Thailand, we use Buddhist calendar. This year is 2563 after his passing away. Buddha lived to 80. My limited knowledge told me he was born in Lumbini Garden, Kabinlapat Country (สวนลุมพินี กรุงกบิลพัสดุ). Today geographical position is near southern Nepal. In those days, there was no India. The whole sub continent was called Pink Continent, consisting of many small countries, very similar to ancient China being called 中原，春秋戰國. Buddha achieved enlightenment when he was 36, so this philosophy should begin in the 44th year before BE (Buddhist Era 0) or 587 BC. Pardon me if my calculation is wrong.

[@liyanpeng2604]

来自新加坡印度裔的马凯硕教授让这个讨论会变得有意思多了。他没有跪舔中国模式，而是友善提醒我们国人他几个重要的观点：1）不要小看印度民族。印度人长期活在混乱当中，生命力顽强，一但找准机会就咸鱼翻身 2）亚洲各国不要只盯着美国，也要学习欧洲战后各国如何友好相处，避免和邻国开战。这观点很有启发性 3）不要轻易宣传 新加坡/中国 这种好的独裁权威/选贤举能 管治模式。近代历史里有不少国家领袖学着学着就学坏了（这里马凯硕教授通过反例间接默认了新加坡/中国是独裁权威的，但是历史证明是好的，高效的，适合国情的）张维为老师好几次在外国公开论坛里被问到这个问题，可以参考参考马凯硕的答案 4）重视中印关系，要了解中印矛盾的历史心结，积极创造条件解开心结 5）尊重自己文化和语言之余，也要阅读外来文化，学习外来语言，有勇气聆听外来反对的声音，不然以后也会变成今天的西方不可一世走向衰落

[@ggwu2487]

第三点理解不透彻。 意思是在独裁和民主中要找平衡，不过要平衡很难，但目前中国和新加坡就做得还不错。

[@ggwu2487]

独裁有糟糕的，民主也有糟糕的。 所以重点是平衡，但做到很难。 并在后面说了，我大力拥护选贤任能的政治模式。 最后的关键是这句话的前面一两句。

[@liyanpeng2604]

我当然知道找平衡很难，但人类是求进步的，我们不能安逸地吃着老本，领导人有政治条件（人气高+经济好）就必须主动往前走往前试探。 举个例子吧：康熙以后封建统治者不思进取吃着老本（选拔不选举），导致传统封建制度下的选贤举能被西方民主打败了。而我们现在本着“取其糟粕取其精华”的原则把西方的民主选举制度掺进老本里，变成新时代的选贤举能（先选拔后选举），并将其与西方民主制度摆在全球市场里一较高下。

[@gooeycheung7952]

你说的一切，中国都在推进了，就印度在那里不进反退

[@fuck817]

西方今天所謂的民主其實不是古希臘的民主，已經是閹割過了。古希臘的城邦民主是直接民主，不是玩選舉。所以選舉其實客觀上是已經找了平衡了。古希臘的民主也是民主集中制，因爲只有奴隸主享有民主，奴隸們根本沒有民主。如果用馬克思主義的階級理論分析一下，所有階級社會都不可能有民主，否則就不能叫階級社會了。經濟決定政治，只有先實現了共產主義，消滅了階級和國家，才有可能有真民主。西方的代議制選舉，其實就是爲了資產階級服務的，金錢捲入政治，意味着政治就是有錢人在玩的，同樣印證了馬克思說的階級的侷限性。民主就是跟共產主義一樣魔幻的東西，張偉維說民主可能是曇花一現，這不是現在進行時，這是已經發生過了。古希臘的民主早就曇花一現了，今天的代議制“民主”跟古希臘不是一回事。

[@tradingwithtornada123]

Professor Zhang made an amazing speech: Together for humanity!

[@zaijiezhu6303]

😂

[@kohsoosiah]

Truly great speakers, I am proud that one is from Singapore. Many indigenous intellectuals worldwide can’t see the forest from the trees🤣

[@mojobodo3256]

I see one intelligent man and one psuedo intellectual on stage. The latter being from my country :D

[@nanoshka7484]

Singapore really has produced many great politicians, did great things for the Singaporean people. And the Singaporean way of government gives great influence to China as well. Many more country should learn a thing or two from Singapore.

[@parnamsaini4751]

@@nanoshka7484 Really???

[@user-th2lx3wl6s]

Singapore is going great

[@stanzhao3606]

看过马凯硕的一些演讲，很喜欢这位老先生，即深刻有见地，还非常礼貌的考虑到听众的接受程度，非常智慧和婉转的表达自己的观点。可以看出他对中国的很多建言还是非常真诚的。他提到的几点，我觉得是需要我们中国人好好思考的。第一，正视印度的发展，学着了解、研究印度。从历史出发处理好和印度的关系；第二，随着亚洲的崛起，尤其是中国的崛起，但是在欧美还很强大的前提下，如何保护自己的胜利果实，安抚欧美不要让他们走上极端的路上去。

[@sinjie8131]

可怕的是，有不少网络键盘侠看到 ”正视印度” 或者 ”应该摒弃过度骄傲的心态” 就跳出来问候别人全家...

[@TheSummeryly]

我觉得很很难

[@edwardtanchoolok5707]

👍😀

[@thebestevertherewas]

@@sinjie8131 True, I must many of my own countrymen are guilty of this ( I'm Indian). And i sincerely apologise for them. Let peace prevail.

[@wongwaiman5266]

That's amazing,!I as a Chinese, am pleased to know that my Motherland is getting better and better in many areas and so as in India. Recalling my study in UK,the most hardworking students are Chinese and Indians. This shows that both countries are great again after decades of persistence,patience and determination to succeed,

[@privateconfidential7056]

china today is a country that have no hope and no fututre. lay flat monement . it is not a bad thing.

[@thewitcher8658]

India is not getting better. It's still the same, poor country.

[@privateconfidential7056]

@@thewitcher8658 - who cares

[@jianyuhua]

作为中国人，我希望希望咱们不要像当初西方看中国的眼光看印度。

[@ezioguo6274]

讲实话，现实不是说中国人怎么蔑视印度，而是印度天天自己搞笑。不知道你有没有了解过印度的国防，基本上还是万国造，虽然不会被一家卡死脖子，但是那个装备真的是看着让人揪心，但凡是印度人自己造的国防工程最后都是闹笑话，一艘军舰能在造船厂摆几年，造到一半被推下水，后来又弄上来，造不成又搞下去，这真的不是我们看不起。。。是他们自己搞不成啊

[@jianyuhua]

一百年前中国其实也差不多，但是咱们奋斗过来了啊！哈哈

[@ezioguo6274]

真的不一样，你知道新中国建国初期的时候的那批领导人到底有多实干吗？新中国一直是坚持自己的武器体系，所有的能自己造的都要自己造，印度则是能凑合就凑合。。。理念都不同

[@ezioguo6274]

@@xggong8261 最起码在国防这一块，他们真的很差，印度政府的各种体系比我国差了不是一星半点

[@jianyuhua]

ezio guo 我的意思是，现状是很烂没错，但是他有潜力，他的人口红利还没有吃起来。

[@Brian-cc5ur]

In fact, I really admire Mr.Zhang, cause I can get so many from his speech, and I am really looking forward to more new opinions and angles from him.

[@shonnyNOR]

Professor Zhang has a lot of videos on KZbin, all well worth a view. Essential viewing for understanding China, especially combined with his books, two of which are out in English versions, 'China Wave' and China Horizon'.

[@danieldalewongjinfatt9617]

Great speeches by both professors, eloquent and spot on. Great audience, fantastic MC n moderator may I call her. Fantastic forum with meaningful dialogue. Great minds, Great show. Keep it up.

[@privateconfidential7056]

china today is a country that have no hope and no fututre. lay flat monement . it is not a bad thing.

[@wongcw08]

An ethnic Indian and ethnic Chinese speaks perfect English on a complex topic. Applause.

[@user-og7dp3ht3f]

this India professor is very wise man, and excellent speech. Professor Zheng also excellent and will give you a different view of the idea .

[@samliew6610]

Professor Kishore is a Singaporean scholar.

[@frank7007]

He is not Indian professor, rather, he is 100% Singaporean - born in Singapore and lives in Singapore and working as a senior official for Singapore government.

[@Sketcher86]

@@frank7007 Ethnically he is a Sindhi.

[@CP-ne2md]

He is not wise but he is useful idiots for communist propaganda, its practice of communism use such as a political prostitute

[@angepower2386]

Mahbubani is a thorough Singaporean! He’s undoubtedly excellent in his speech but I often wonder some of his figures! When giving a lecture, it is always best to have the latest figures n updated information rather than the off the cuff old data!

[@teckchuonting4582]

It is my dream to see China and India working together with other Asian nations , rising up together for the benefit of the human race. May African nations and other third world nations rise up together, for peace and greater prosperity together. Thank you for this wonderful discussions by 2 great minds

[@udhayakumarMN]

But sorry india take different route..

[@TravelerS4ever]

@@udhayakumarMN Shhh.. CCP is watching you. Long live CCP 🇨🇳

[@user-kz9sc8jh6o]

a great forum to get a current and holistic view of Asia, and the world. i totally agreed with Prof Mahbubani that it is extremely important for India & China to get along, to shape a better world

[@paulmaking1980]

Great talk from professors Kishore Mahbubani & Zhang Weiwei, I respect & admire both of them. Without doubt China & India will lead the Asian century, Asia will become the centre of the world politically, economically, militarily & culturally. GO ASIA!

[@manleyliu7975]

国内也开始制作这类良心之作了，一个多小时的讲桌视频，太爽了。

[@shengchuangfeng227]

FYI. 主持人叫潘小瓅，是中国研究院特邀研究员，“观视频”CEO、制片人、主持人，上海春秋发展战略研究院研究员。 按科研院所职称看的话，研究员相当于教授职称。

[@leesophie2678]

Shengchuang Feng 口音一下英一下美，有點不習慣

[@nigelnevinfreesnowdenandas3895]

@@leesophie2678 听得懂就行，管他大陆口音还是台湾口音！

[@user-ko3hj8sq1b]

Lee Sophie 貌似英音多一些

[@jazzilyntong3476]

YONG LI 这个女人的英文非常行。 不会输给刘心

[@luyan2263]

研究员是聘任制

[@jimwuhan5336]

I 've been watching so many debate about China success, I have to say just Chinese expert knows much better than westerners experts about China.

[@vincenttheo8841]

Yes, he is very scholastic. Western "experts" on China don't even understand their own system, let alone understand China's.

[@shonnyNOR]

Those two speeches should be a compulsory part of education in ALL Western countries, as the depth of understanding to create a better future for all is very much laid bare. Great stuff!!!!

[@gohoc163]

Jonn Mero, Yes n no. These two guys r seeing the world from history.it doesn’t work that way coz Technology has a paradigm game.

[@anselxiong4921]

能看到幾位熟悉的老師都在，感覺好開心

[@elena16350]

Thank you I’m English, and our country is STILL arrogant, when all it’s to be arrogant about is the fact that China is still talking to us despite trying to thwart China at every turn. In the discussion it was said about the west’s arrogance, how long will it be before the west loses that arrogance, because the west hasn’t had reason to be pompous.

[@sammy0722]

West never keeps the option of losing and there in lies the danger for it. At the final wake up call when the curtains are finally drawn on western domination.. it will be a very rude awakening for them.

[@wenyu637]

bacause of AI translation, chinese language is rising soon. It is good for the world.

[@privateconfidential7056]

china today is a country that have no hope and no fututre. lay flat monement . it is not a bad thing.

[@Jeffrey2323]

Thank you Mr Kishore to tell your Chinese audience the importance of English. You are so right.

[@quantumyu7968]

主持人不仅主持功底好，英语更是没话说，最最关键的是超级漂亮，真的是秀外慧中。

[@pohkhui]

Chao-Hua Yu 听了她的英语，超好。She speaks extremely well and clearly understand.

[@quantumyu7968]

pohkhui exactly!

[@shengchuangfeng227]

关键是人家还是中国研究院特邀研究员，上海春秋发展战略研究院研究员。 按科研院所职称看的话，研究员相当于教授职称。

[@hongfanzhan8260]

主持人的英语接近英国或澳洲的学院派英语{academic english}, 不像现在大多数年轻人说的英语都带有浓厚的美国口音。

[@limlim4251]

中国人本身要有自信。

[@FiasaPower]

A real world top-level class. Both participants are brilliant in their own fashion. Cheers from Brazil.

[@user-dx2hn3qy3v]

Arealworldtoblevelclass,cheer Sirlanknangoodme Amslrsadmoulana looks great youbook100 Seetmeyou

[@eastcharm]

很荣幸，我在现场聆听了演讲，一直等待此视频的出现，多听几遍。

[@xxxrobert5542]

查一下大麦网？

[@alexsolosm]

Can you even imagine Americans holding a dialogue in a foreign language? Definitely not... But just look at how the Chinese are able to do this with such eloquence.

[@susanohara4274]

India and Singapore can also hold dialogues in English

[@TravelerS4ever]

And can you imagine that English is still global language. Just saying 😜

[@giacomocapodellago3246]

WOW! Bravo, what a brilliant conversation. Historical, and so much has changed to today. Prof Mahbubani seems to have captured his balance.

[@privateconfidential7056]

china today is a country that have no hope and no fututre. lay flat monement . it is not a bad thing.

[@madmanjshum]

Awesome, two best minds from Asia and so please I found it.

[@souffled]

Wonderfully stimulating by two great and eloquent thinkers. Very proud of these two human beings from Singapore and China. Almost like watching a Bruce Lee movie, so exciting and scintillating. Good job boys !!

[@privateconfidential7056]

china today is a country that have no hope and no fututre. lay flat monement . it is not a bad thing.

[@nullpointer123456]

Great talk from both brightest minds. Mr Zang Weiwei bought a very unique and insightful views. I hope our country leaders and people, Vietnam, will learn the best lessons from China and Singapore, strive the country ahead.

[@madmanjshum]

The two Smartest people in the world giving lecture together in the same forum is a rare unique occasion miss at your own peril. Thank you for sharing. Cheers

[@joylove8693]

Mr. 张维为, many thanks for your sharing, many thanks for introducing China and Chinese model to the world. It is grateful that we have you. Bless you and your loved one

[@huamok7088]

I forwarded this video to my children. Hopefully they learn about China the right way.

[@privateconfidential7056]

china today is a country that have no hope and no fututre. lay flat monement . it is not a bad thing.

[@user-ky2cl4ku1q]

一直很喜欢张维为教授的节目，经常在其平静的语气中感受到祖国发展中的不凡。是不是只有我一个人发现了张教授说英文的时候比说母语的时候更加的有力量有节奏，这是为啥呢？哈哈！

[@lightsmiler]

我也觉得，他的英文讲演更有说服力

[@SaiMeng-fx3qx]

英语中本身就有重读音节，中文太强了可能会觉得怪怪的

[@hungmanxxxx2462]

Wooooooooowww.....Great production. Great job to the MC and the 2 professors ......learnt so much in 1 hr. Inspired and optimistic for the future of Asia.

[@peterwong513]

Great video - A government with a focus on substantive benefits of the people is great governance.

[@tyme5837]

Prof. Mahbubani is very kind to China. Let us strive to be worthy of it.

[@justdoit787ak]

great discussion between two interesting and inspiring personalities..

[@privateconfidential7056]

china today is a country that have no hope and no fututre. lay flat monement . it is not a bad thing.

[@user-zj8ve9jl1w]

捷克前总统瓦茨拉夫·克劳斯在他的作品《环保的暴力》一书中说，极端环保主义是专制主义的意识形态。 我认为这个用于形容任何极端主义者都适用，唯民主论也是一种专制主义的意识形态。

[@qinyin9147]

任何唯论都是专职。容不下不一样的思想和形式哪还有自由民主。

[@davidlaw2595]

棒棒棒，銓釋中國與外國制度的對比。更誏世人看見中國的未來憧憬及人民的期許與展望！非常好，張維為講的真好！充滿自信與樂觀，讃！

[@chufang50]

Numbers speak for itself!🤔 keep up the good job China 🇨🇳 👍👌🙏

[@raymondzhang7428]

我更同意张维为老师的分析，用数据和理论说话。这位新加坡的学者说中国在前1800年都是老大，所以重回老大很正常。咱中国人心里肯定都有这个情怀，但是他不应该拿这个当论据，历史只能用来参考。

[@user-lz1sn8mz3r]

Raymond Zhang 他是新加坡副总理，主持外交，印度裔

[@shimeiqiu5757]

Raymond Zhang 我觉得可以拿这个历史当论据 我们在被西方国家甩在后面的那么几百年时间 是生产力决定的 那时我们和他们算是不同维度的世界里 西方国家已是大机器生产时代而我们还是落后的农业 没科技 而那时他们已有很多系统知识 如果我们都是农业时代或都是现代 只要政策不出现错误 那么就会回到原来的位置 就像以前西方在全球殖民其他地区 有些还是原始社会 这个就是降级打架 完全不是一个等级 在同样政治正确的情况下 科技差不多的情况下 决定强大的是人口 有素质的人口 而中国有那么多人 这是个事实 每个人都有活得很好的愿望 这就是动力

[@hazelnut1824]

@ok66 lkl 說話小心點。中國成功也不需太高傲

[@yulinwei2082]

@ok66 lkl 呃，过了

[@lllaj3960]

@ok66 lkl 你有毒吧

[@jimmyliu3218]

中国少有的高质量节目, 主持人和嘉宾都是超一流的.

[@hungmanxxxx2462]

So much wisdoms from both professors !!!!

[@_seola_]

Ikr, I really wish US professors/scholars have these kind of mind set, when talk regards to foreign nations.

[@molehu8589]

有关印度的部分马教授说的很有道理，在我来印度之前，我对印度的看法和国内大部分朋友一样，但是我现在在印度的感受是，在城里里，男女是平等的，女性是开放的，贱民的地位有待提高，最不可小觑的是印度人和中国人一样在拼命工作，而且每个月里有两周是单休，当然印度还有很多问题，比如贫困差距太大，城市治理混乱，污染严重以及马教授说的62战争是的确是印度人的心魔！但是总的来说我觉得印度将是下一个崛起的大国！另外有一点真的值得我们学习的是，印度人很爱国！

[@xinqiuzhang2082]

mole hu 中国人也很爱国！

[@molehu8589]

Xinqiu Zhang 嗯是的，但是有一部分特别崇洋媚外！

[@chaoxiong8964]

不知阁下在印度从事哪方面的工作。印度人和中国人一样拼命工作这点表示存疑。我来这边一年多了，多没发现印度人有这种特点。谢谢

[@NangongReng1973]

印度人会讨厌你吗？

[@melopc]

印度最大的問題是不同省的人之間沒有共同的身分認同。我們中國是靠漢文化把國家凝聚起來的，而印度不同州之間都有不同的語言，而且書寫系統也不統一。雖然說我們中國也有地域黑，地圖炮，但在民族認同上還是很強的。比如說經常南北的爭論是誰的方言是正宗漢語。但是印度卻不是，他們南北之間就是把大家看作異族。我一個印度朋友跟我說，我很驚訝為什麼印度到現在還是個統一國家，因為它的傾向就是分裂的。加上民主制度的催化，只能增加各個省之間的各自為政。其實現在歐盟也是一樣，每逢開會就是大家用20種語言，通過400個翻譯互相吵！什麼都做不成，

[@GZJDM]

感谢观视频和张教授！中国需要这样的媒体和这样的学者，把中国故事中国人的思想讲给外国人听。中国需要在国际上有更多的话语权和发生的地方。

[@lucaswong2167]

是的，生病了该去看医生，而不是询问大众，专家会告诉你怎么做 我之前也思考过这个问题，要使一个国家真正走在科学正确的道路上，这和由大众来决定一切事物，本质上是不是矛盾的？ 在我看来，至少一定程度上是的，后者就是西方式民主。因为首先大众不是理性的，大众也很容易被煽动，比如民粹。其次很多国家层面的大事，需要极高的专业素养，各领域专业知识和高端视野，而这些显然是一般大众不具备的。 所以西方式民主有一个明显的错误，就是把全民投票和选举等同于民主，但这只是先贤们为了实现民主而设计的工具。使用了工具不代表做成了事情，就像套用了公式不代表你解出了题目。而现在看来这个工具甚至都有设计上的问题，当它走到极端，国家就会和科学发展的道路背道而驰。因为说到底科学的发展需要的是“医生”，也就是专家精英的决策，而不是大众。那民主的也必须找到一个新的定义和模式。

[@davdav2963]

你提出的工具說,很有意思. 我剛剛想這個問題的時候,首先看的是細節. 醫生, 一般來說用了非常理性的分析角度,來系統地整理和歸類所能收集到的病例. 大眾,則會依據自己接觸到的案例,做為治療的根基. 本質上而言, 前者用的是比較理性的角度, 後者則是感性的去選則居多的論調. 但是,感性的論點,也許本來就不該用理性的態度解讀? 醫生碰上盲點時, 也還是得重新去眾人觀點中去再次取材(醫生代表經驗的話, 眾人也許能代表創意,但是經驗是創意的殺手,創意是經驗的斷章取義...). 如果兩者本來就是相輔相成的, 好比陰陽共存(synergy of positive and negative),那麼, 工具說的論點上, 是不是也能稍微修改工具,然後找到更能相互助益的模式?

[@lucaswong2167]

@@davdav2963 我同意你的观点，决策过程最好由“医生们”来做，但这并不代表民众的主观反馈是没有意义的。就好比真正的医生做诊断的时候，和患者的交流是必要的，因为患者会提供一些医生通过其它手段无法获取的关键信息。这也说明主观观点的反馈并不是没有意义的，因为感性观点也是客观事实的一种侧面体现，而提炼出真相，也就是“病因”，这则是“医生们”的职责了，这也是不具备医学知识的患者本人所做不到的。 所以吸收民众的观点，就像你说的，从众人中去取材，这也是必要的。但是这需要控制一个度，或者说带有全局观的目的性去做，而不能把大众的观点放大成“处方”，而现在西方式民主恰恰就是这么做的，所以问题频出。 你说的没错，工具亟待修改，突破意识形态，以达成目的（实质上的民主）为导向的修改。这最好能够继承西方制度和中国模式各自的优点，又能排除掉各自缺点，而我认为最重要的还是让民主有一个更加全新而精准定义，使得高度的科学发展和高度民主之间的不再产生冲突。

[@Jordan-Chan]

民生议题可以公投，这是百姓的权利，也是真正意义上的民主。但是国家长期的发展，国际事务是高阶政治，需要精英决策。这个时候如果由百姓来决策那就不叫民主，而是推卸责任，精英领导层把本该自己的责任推给了民众。所以说现在民主的真正问题是没有分清楚责任和义务的界限。

[@user-ve2tx3dh3o]

我很喜欢会思考的人 下面我谈谈我的深入思考 民主=尊重人权 而最基本人权是：公平公开公正的阶级流动，人人机会平等。 这是大纲，执行的话，有一些细节问题，可以探讨解决。 也就是说：只要阶级固化，或变相阶级固化=独裁 根据上面的理论，全世界没有一个是民主国家。 大家都走在民主的路上 西方的制度目标→从来不是为了公平公开公正的阶级流动。 西方的制度是为了分蛋糕🎂 而不是为了制作更大的蛋糕🎂 科举制是最完美的民主制度 我说的科举制，不是古代科举制 而是基于古代的科举制，扩展延伸。 全国各岗位，包括领导层 都要考试 考试内容要以人为本、以全国人为本、以发展为本。 理论考试（以唯物辩证为指导思想）＋环境、经济、人民满意度等等为指标。 考试公平公开公正，全民人人机会平等。 如果选举制＋阶级固化（变相固化：也就是看着有流动性，但是不够公平、公开、公正）=独裁体制。

[@user-ve2tx3dh3o]

dav dav 各岗位的阶级流动 包括医生这种岗位 医生是怎么产生的？ 我们设计一套公平公开公正的阶级流动大纲（是大纲，欢迎补充，当然细节不足，得在实践中总结，找出问题，解决问题） 理论考试＋基础操作实践 怎么升职？ 理论考试＋具体治疗人数＋……等等一些医学 也就是说 大家都有机会当医生 医生来源于国民 国民通过良性竞争而升职 过程要公平公开公正 给人民可信度 就好像高升大 别人成绩好，去了好大学 你不可能不服，是吧？ 你难道要去抗议 上大学大家选举？ 成绩不算数？

[@nicoletteuy8455]

I salute to both of you sirs !

[@xiao-rongpeng9804]

So much in agreement with the speakers, good leaders find common ground rather than provoke hate and conflict.

[@privateconfidential7056]

china today is a country that have no hope and no fututre. lay flat monement . it is not a bad thing.

[@HeresMyView]

Excellent speakers and forward thinking mentality. Great presentation and still relevant 2 yrs later, today. Bravo!!👍👍 Today, China is not a communist country. It had reformed its political system into a central Chinese cultured democracy theme based on meritocracy. This unique Chinese democracy system then transformed its economic system into a mixed market economy with central planning and Capitalism hybrid of the people, for the people, and by the people of China.

[@RLsoundoost]

Very logical and beautiful argument in professor Zhang's speech.

[@victorkmlee]

Great speeches , insights and discussions from both speakers. Truly objective, factual but also visionary and prophetic.

[@shixiaodan1024]

观视频是个非常有水平的节目。非常感谢🙏。也非常高兴能有幸看到这么好的节目。

[@liwenupton8470]

讲的真很感人！给张教授点赞👍👍👍

[@Alex-mm5fm]

用历史来解释甚至预测未来是没有错的，但是现在的生产力，科技发展如此迅猛是过去两千年无法比拟的。中印历史上为什么没有打过仗，因为喜马拉雅山把两国分隔来了。今后两国会怎么样还有待考量，以小见大，东西方哪方将更强大，更先进，有待考察。中国的民主模式好还是西方的民主模式好也有待考察。中国有些人觉得西方的好也是因为看到了西方的各种社会，经济成就才说西方的民主好。现在中国在短短三十年内赶上了，甚至有些方面超过了，就有人开始说中国的民主模式的先进性。个人觉得为时过早。改革开放的第一步是承认落后，中国全面赶超的前提也是在不带位的领域承认落后。就像张老师说的，如果西方不承认，不在某些方面向中国学习，那将进一步衰落下去。

[@mojobodo3256]

Kishore Mahbubani has given a valuable insight into America decline; the injection of Indian 'chaos' in the form of CEOs of major American corporations. Lol!

[@brunoxu559]

质量很高的对话和视频

[@OscarWrightZenTANGO]

Excellent program !

[@user-mc5zj4bo1l]

一次非常有建设性的对话，希望这样的理性、智慧的声音更多一些。

[@winstonsheng1936]

As a Christian I can state that God did not encourage Democracy .. God chooses1 man who respect & obeys Him i.e. the Fear of the Lord!

[@channc5627]

great talk ~ professor Zhang he said so touchable

[@TravelerS4ever]

Very emotional, right?

[@user-cf8yr2sm3p]

拿在美印度人的收入在證明印度很牽強，因為美國的文化環境跟印度對比根本就是天壤之別，印度本土還有很多根深蒂固的內部矛盾，即使是莫迪也無法撼動，印度想要真正的崛起目前是不可能的，語言和度量衡都沒有解決，還有強大的地方部族勢力，嚴重的父權主義社會，封建土地所有制，種姓制度，宗教矛盾，官僚腐敗，沒有一個是莫迪能夠實際解決的

[@youngdavid8068]

这头像让我望而生畏，退避三舍...

[@zzzstl6371]

@@youngdavid8068 我看到只有默哀，他 走了

[@linyezhou2183]

还是共产党牛逼

[@fanfanlin8806]

不过这一点证明了三哥是有希望的，不像非洲的智商，无可救药

[@ciugat6139]

拿在没印度人CEO数量说话也很搞笑，算上印度自己的公司，世界500强里只有不超过15个印度CEO，然后世界500强里有120个中国企业，CEO全是中国人。。。

[@victorhuo9016]

主持人英语说得真好，羡慕

[@user-dd9bb9du8v]

有一點不能改變的是，各國為了自己國家利益，不論什麼制度。那些什麼為了你國人民怎樣怎樣的，都帶有目的的，帶有懷疑心態看待其他國家輿論是沒錯的了！一國領導人太天真會滅國。

[@jz6581]

你是在说 马娘娘？

[@user-xd2jz6xs8r]

可我觉得台湾人正好如你所说

[@user-dd9bb9du8v]

逍遥鸿 活生生的例子，利比亞，烏克蘭！給打的變廢墟，放棄蘑菇的後果！

[@user-wd2rv2cw1r]

我不想以恶来推测别人，但是为了自己，还是要小心啊。刘邦和韩信是很典型的例子

[@user-ku1qi3kk4f]

学英语绝对是好事，但是非英语国家要把它当做一个工具，千万别让它深入骨髓

[@mariamo9766]

始终坚持鲁迅先生的拿来主义，有用的就拿来，没用的就不要，用英语也这样，

[@rickshao1276]

语言怎么深入骨髓？

[@haopeiyang3443]

I understand what you mean. 我是1987年在中国出生的。1994年出国去南方的国家长大。从那时候都一直说英文说的二十年多了。刚刚在孔子大学学了5年的汉语。有一种投生感。慢慢恢复着在我里边的本土休眠的精神。

[@TheSummeryly]

@@haopeiyang3443 你中文说的不错诶

[@haopeiyang3443]

@@TheSummeryly 谢谢。都是要用一点词典写的。

[@yzhang2008]

Dr. Kishore 是位高人！ 张维维也很不错！

[@calvinwong7615]

Keep upload more!

[@lepeiyan2341]

哇，马教授成功回避了最尖锐的性别歧视问题和种姓制度问题。就是说不用国家出面，发展经济这些问题就能自动解决了。 好印度心态哦！！

[@user-gq8bf6gz8c]

🤣🤣

[@vincentwhite6245]

这节目真好！

[@shuhuazhang3523]

" Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a Democracy yet that did not commit suicide." -John Adams, The works of John Adams, second President of the United States.

[@raghavnandyal]

If there were only ONE wish I could make to the Good Lord to grant ... it would be: "Wish COVID19 never happened"! In 2021, it seems like the whole world has completely gone off rails and the speeding train of life is heading directionless.

[@exas4791]

Moving forward, a possible danger seems to be increasing Asian chauvinism or superiority complex.

[@TheMia8686]

张老师的很多观点过于强调中国的强大以及中国文化优于其他各种文化的一种优越感，我个人感觉中国虽然较之前强大起来了，但是韬光养晦仍然不应该轻易放弃。

[@ghosthunter5107]

中國的文化歷史悠久，但是我覺得民主 民生 民享 才是主要的

[@tiansummer4243]

现在韬是韬不住了，不管是西方还是发展中穷兄弟都看着你呢，你已经被推到舞台中央了。“天予不取，反受其咎；时至不迎，必受其殃”，中国不能再做鸵鸟，当是有所作为的时代了！中国人必须迎难而上，敢于面对挑战和前面的危险，要敢于为自己的利益、全人类的公益拍案而起，要有敢于胜利的勇气！

[@gingchungmok2540]

套用一路张教授的话，中国如今是大象站在蚂蚁后面，韬光养晦已经不太可能了

[@Brian-cc5ur]

I don't think so, I think he just wants to mean the confidence of the Chinese model, which may be so helpful for the world. On the other hand, he said China has learned the western model for many many years, and if he can find some problems for the western model and provide his wisdom, which is really helpful for the world. after all, his opinion is a win-win solution for the world.

[@temai6066]

金灿荣教授的观点我比较赞成--现在这个时候，再提“韬光养晦”，反倒显得躲躲藏藏容易引起更大冲突，不如摊牌打明牌，开诚布公说清楚核心利益、边缘利益等等，然后更好的竞争+合作发展。

[@hellomynameishello6500]

I'm really impressed by Chinese legacy

[@blaiterekbord8094]

优政与劣政取代 民主还是专制的对比。这点我觉得比较好。

[@DONGDAQIAO]

民主并不能直接推导出良治。这一点越来越确定

[@zl66666]

@@DONGDAQIAO 直接说民主就是劣治都没问题。我只看结果，吹的天花乱坠都没用的

[@oiyincheng5248]

非常感謝舉辦一種演講会，讓世界更多人類更加了解全世界未來人類應該互相相愛和採用大愛來合作發展未來路向來保護這個美麗地球，我們需要感謝〈馬教授和張教授〉這類正能量丶正面思想的人勇敢站出來說出事實來改善改變阻止有些壞思維壞思想的人物來欺凌和打壓弱勢国家及損害人類的不好関係。

[@mozart4128]

Words of Chinece professors enhanced my knowledge. Regards from An Indian from Vienna.

[@Tekhelet75]

I wish larger chairs had been available for Zhang Weiwei. He looks like he’s fill out out the chair.

[@elvinccw]

Larger chairs for both of them

[@pauloyih1]

It is my hope and wishes in view of these two great thinkers here -- If and when China and India can team up to move both nations forward -- with this one particular focus -- The collaboration of these two nations. This will lead to the stability in Asia as well as to no longer to have us, Asians to be fallen to the plot of the West, namely the American in their divide and conquer, which is an obsolete concept !!

[@kishi9508]

You see what Trump is doing now... Ameica is trying what you said, yet hope he will not succeed.

[@SwainLeungSewingMachines]

Indian friends are more confident and postive than me, I am very interested in such culture difference.

[@danielpang9358]

Professor Zhang talks are more to tell how good China is comparing to the rest of the world. And Kishore speech are more on neutral propectives. But to me it is more important to find one shortcoming , plan and find solutions to counter it. Kishore speech are more in depth. 人无远虑，必有近忧。

[@peterwilliams7335]

It would be even more interesting to have an anti-China speaker or two of them.

[@neenav1999]

True. One from USA and the other from EU.

[@TravelerS4ever]

No way 😜

[@user-gu3mj3qy6x]

不错，很棒

[@oilenglai4128]

Excellent presentation & Q&A Asia onward! Let's compete vigorously and war not 🎈

[@MrGanbat84]

You are great man telling the truth against western media

[@hschen6341]

有张教授一定精彩。✊✊✊

[@user-yp9ub6ni4x]

中国人清楚的知道中国的历史 以及导致 崛起的一些历史因素 ，而我非常好奇的是印度没有经历这些 为什么依旧自信 马的说法有些没有说服力 ，比如妇女平等问题 我一直持实事求是也就是中共的观点 中国初期在政治号召下的妇女运动 改革开放后开始回潮说明政治正确和印度 所谓女权辩论运动 不能持久不是实质稳定可持续的办法 没有经济基础即使成功了 也和美国黑人一样口惠而心不实 而发动千千万万的妇女就业 取得经济地位 一技之长 自食其力 才是最持久有效的， 再比如种姓制度 在中国即封建遗毒 毛 一向认为垃圾不扫 自己不会走 思念观念的革命是最难的 而马 认为资本主义的发展 能自然而热 冲破这些束缚 那在欧洲可是经历了几百年时间啊 印度这么多人 能快的了吗 。 再就是 即使印度人人有手机 资讯爆炸 但是没有相应的信息基础建设 如何产生中国这样的互联网革命呢 电子商务 手机支付 物流 那一样不依靠庞大的基础建设呢 。

[@shadowwzz1619]

中国各大信息商已经在帮忙印度建咯

[@supahsmashbro]

Such a good video. I love Zhang WeiWei's point about mental colonization. It's profound and very important to understand

[@wulung5943]

Totally agree with Professor Zhang. Land reform is the most important issue in India

[@shopkedai]

In one video, in an interview with Teng personal interpreter, he said Teng admired how developed Singapore was in 1978. He said, Lee Kuan Yew replied to Teng, China could do better than Singapore. It is the replication of Singapore model in coastal provinces of China. Unfortunately, the Chinese government did not go far enough in providing government housing for it's urbanites. This has implication on China birth rate in major cities. Chinese would not have large family size if housing and educational take more than 3/4 the parent life income. There is also a tendency rich parents prefered less children.

[@larryh1038]

这才是正能量 有文化的就是不一样

[@henrytay1706]

Wonderful comprehensive insights!

[@pengyang128]

真精彩

[@hel8770]

日常黑福山哈哈哈哈，这回请了外援来黑

[@liyanpeng2604]

其实张维为是想借福山来提高他自己在国际上的知名度，福山的著作在西方学界影响实在很大

[@user-go4sk8yy4t]

Sheldon Lee 那是西方人在自我洗脑

[@hel8770]

Sheldon Lee 张这么做也无可厚非啊，大家都是这么做的，一般立flag都会挑战有名的学者

[@xxxrobert5542]

福山其实有个秘密身份是战忽局的副局长，一般人不知道的

[@ageiuabv]

听智者对话感觉自己都智慧了！

[@lemanlie2356]

Two leader top "👍in the world

[@titot2370]

2 years on, we see how far international relations have deteriorated as a result of this trade war.

[@autumnleaves9917]

比胡锡进的英语好多啦

[@user-nf4ub3sg7i]

Lang Gao 你开玩笑，张维为是邓小平高级翻译

[@linyezhou2183]

哈哈哈，不知道高到哪里去了

[@glengreyjoy7915]

老胡不是学俄语的么

[@tupolevi]

@@linyezhou2183 His choice of words were clear and concise, that was even better than a average native speaker. FYI, not any fluent english speaker can be a good interpreter.

[@linyezhou2183]

@@tupolevi exactly

[@luxi2701]

主持人太棒啦！

[@change1481]

为什么没有评论提到这位漂亮的主持人？非常棒的主持人，让人很舒服的感觉

[@yy-tu4fo]

感谢这个节目让我从在台湾节目上学到的教授学者定义中走出来了。

[@saradu8471]

我有同感。