Where's the Line Between Smart and Edgy Anime??

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[@Falxifer95]

The easiest tell of when something is edgy or tryhard is when you've a story with really sensitive topics and makes light of them or uses them solely for shock value without any tact or understanding why those topics are hot button issues.

[@gijskerkhof1294]

Perfect description. This puts the reason i hate deadman wonderland and mirai nikki in to words perfectly.

[@bonfist7277]

@@gijskerkhof1294 Mirai nikki be like, “every girl in the cast has been raped at least once.”

[@parkertheemoskaterdude5522]

Same with Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt. It makes all these gross, inappropriate references to important issues and just acts like all this horrible stuff is normal, acceptable, or even funny. I understand that sometimes humor is a way for survivors to cope with serious issues, but the tone of a lot of these types of shows is more for the sake of comic relief for the audience and not the victims

[@FM-dm8xj]

and your the judge of this are u?

[@josephoyek6574]

@@parkertheemoskaterdude5522 Huh??? Panty and Stocking??? That wasn't edgy, that was just Gainax being Gainax

[@ghostshrimp5006]

Joey without facial hair is putting the fear of god in me

[@lonewolf9578]

Same

[@amedeomagsumbol6629]

Joey still in bulking season

[@cheapskate9487]

Caught me off guard 😂

[@9FacedDeathEatingDeity]

Just off the thumbnail, i thought it was a guest for a split second

[@Beeranden]

Man, I love Sonny Boy for all the reasons that almost put Garnt off. It was such an intriguing show that did things only possible with animation and amazing direction. It sticks with you for sure.

[@shyguy5473]

Weird thing is that Garnt put it in his top 15 list of best anime of 2021

[@silverfan9611]

@@shyguy5473 perhaps he's just going with the flow here so as to not heat up the discussion. he do has his own set of "do's and dont's" when it comes to podcasting

[@shariqueraza4409]

@@silverfan9611 tru thatzs what i do when my friends start talking about sonny boy in a negative sense

[@shadowomegax]

Personally, I don't know what to think about it. I didn't dislike it, but there were times it bored me. I still have 3 episodes left, and I know someday I will finish it, just not in the near future. That's my overall feeling with the show.

[@Moist_patato]

Thing with sonny boy is that when i heard about it i had the exact first impression as it being super pseudo intellectual show to boost your ego and even watching the first couple of eps the feelings remained the same . It took me some time to pick up the subtle messages presented through heavy symbolism which were extremely hard to decode which would leave me with an un explainable feeling that’s exactly what garnt was talking about “ i dont know if i liked it but something stuck with me” . Plus the characters are unique flawed realistic . Overall people might be trying abit too hard to find meaning in the show which results in making the show unmeaningful .

[@jmiquelmb]

Pretentious is a word that is way overused by some people. Sonny Boy is not pretentious, it just has a very unique vision. Being different and not in your face is not the same as being pretentious

[@namlester2382]

Agreed, though I’d say lots of people that like sonny boy could be described as pretentious, coming from someone who absolutely loved it lol

[@cheapskate9487]

​@@namlester2382oh 100%

[@vikram2688]

Sonny boy never tried to be pretentious neither edgy. It didn't even tried preaching a message. It's one of the wierd show where you don't understand all the bits but still end up feeling nostalgic once you finished it. I don't think you can or cannot understand Sonny boy because there's nothing to understand. I have talked with 5-6 people about Sonny boy and literally all of them had their own interpretation.

[@rumfordc]

its actually pretentious people that rag on it because they're mad they can't figure out what its about which prevents them from being their usual pretentious selves.

[@OntiCastro7]

Anime fans don't deserve actual good anime

[@Ash_Wen-li]

I think that's just the nature of "art house" or very philosophical shows. They aren't made to appeal to a big audience. They're made for a specific message or artistic vision. By their nature they aren't going to be as well regarded as shows made to be conventionally entertaining Some shows manage to do both incredibly well though. Mushishi is a perfect example

[@luketfer]

Angel's Egg is another example, plot is virtually non-existent, minimal dialogue, incredibly beautiful looking but...my god does it *feel* pretentious, like when you're watching it you're like "This is clearly an art house piece...is it pretentious though?" like to this day I'm honestly still not sure if it is or isn't.

[@Ash_Wen-li]

@@luketfer It's definitely an arthouse piece but I don't think it's pretentious. At least at face value it seems to be a movie you experience and interpret on its own. Meant to be largely subjective. In this case I think it would be more of a case of the fans being pretentious rather than the show (like Evangelion)

[@luketfer]

@@Ash_Wen-li That makes sense. A lot of people go on like it's an 'underrated gem' of a movie and it is visually stunning and was even some of the visual inspiration towards Soulsborne games. I can see its merit but it definitely feels like people make it out to be waaaay more pretentious than it is.

[@Ash_Wen-li]

@@luketfer I think it's a must watch for people interested in film. But yeah I wouldn't go out of my way to try to tell people to watch it cause it's a masterpiece. Just a great ethereal experience

[@kichz.7694]

mushishi is kino

[@neouma5382]

Yeah sonny boy really left you with an empty feeling, and I don't know if that was a good thing or a bad thing. But that empty feeling sticks with you and when I listen to the soundtracks it really resonates with me, for me I think it deserved to be nominated, it's the anime I remember the most from 2021

[@scottgimple8107]

It was supposed to make u feel empty. The Mc arc was learning to not run away from his problems and instead face them, regardless of the consequences in doing so So when he made it back to earth, and risked his life, he faced his problems. Then the last ep is just showing the consequence of that decision and how everything just goes on and your life is just worse. It’s bitter sweet. He faced his problems and is also in turn facing the consequences which he was to scared to do at the start of the show

[@makotomachiyuki]

don't think feel it

[@TheTonVeron]

I felt the show was good initially, then as it went on I started liking it more, and by the end I kept thinking about it after it was done. I realized it stuck with me enough that I think it's great.

[@MisterDillPickle]

​@@scottgimple8107 sonny boy is just evangelion but for music nerds

[@Flomen01]

​@@MisterDillPickle Evangelion doesn't really have any messages or meaning beyond the story told tho. Not that it's a bad thing, but most of the philosophical and religious references in Eva are purely superficial. Sonny Boy delves a lot more into social commentary, albeit in a very weird way (I personally really like the trippy tone they go for). I don't think the two shows are comparable.

[@stanchern3796]

Call it what you may - pretentious or what - yet Sunny Boy was clearly one of the strongest and unique shows in recent years. It was a fresh air filled with symbolism and surreal storytelling - one of the best and sincere worldview exploration experiences you may find by this day. Yes, the final revelation was not the BEST and the most UNIQUE in the ending, however the journey and the exploration was what made it worthwhile. I was glad I could know Natsume Shingo as a creator and a person a bit deeper thanks to his genuous direction in that show.

[@F1ll1nTh3Blanks]

For me edgy is when all the points to the plot or personality, ride on being smart, gory, deep, dark etc etc and that's it, they're no other dynamic, it's basically when it feels forced or beating you over the head with it. I, think works if it's done for irony in comedy but other than that, idk about it personally.

[@ChaseR206]

so death note is edgy?

[@Ash_Wen-li]

@@ChaseR206 It's got a little edginess and pretentiousness to it but I don't think it's bad enough to hurt enjoyment of it

[@bonfist7277]

What do you think of Re: Zero

[@bananawithaknife]

@Edgy Purple Ferdinand INVINCIBLE Von Aegir Metal Gear Rising was So over the top with its edginess that it loops back around to just being fun and cool again.

[@theguywhoasked-r7e]

@@ChaseR206 Yes it is, it doesnt mean if its edgy its bad

[@papawedge7396]

The line is in Death Note, the perfect balance between edgyness and smart writing.

[@RaiyanNazif]

I have a objection , it's my opinion just but the psycho laugh of light kinda felt cringe to me

[@papawedge7396]

@@RaiyanNazif I think it makes perfect sense as it is his emotional breakdown from being exposed after years of hiding in plain sight.

[@seraphiim444]

i’ll just say this about sonny boy. i don’t think it’s some incredibly smart show, nor do i think it was trying to be, but what i can say for sure is that even now after it’s been a while since i’ve watched it, just remembering some moments of that show are enough to bring me to the brink of tears

[@ruffybon3z]

I honestly do not understand how someone can not enjoy Sonny boy. It’s just genuinely good. It’s very interesting and different. It’s not pretentious at all.

[@mysmallnoman]

Lol

[@OntiCastro7]

The boys can be really stupid sometimes, well most of the times

[@nidohime6233]

The line between "smart", which I think they're meant mature, and just being edgy has to do on how events affect to the whole of the story. If you say "someone kill a person" you wouldn't care, but if you took time to develop the characters, their backgrounds, what kind of relationships they have, how there ended like this and what consequences affect in the long run of the series then you could say the show is smart. Most edgy shows have the fault of not taking care on what happends, you could have a scene where a truck kills hundreds of people but just 5 minutes later no one makes a big deal on it, or even not talking about it again in the rest of the story. If it was something that doesn't change anything about the plot if you remove it entirelly then is just edgy for the sake of being edgy.

[@FM-dm8xj]

all of this is very subjective.

[@FM-dm8xj]

@Edgy Purple Ferdinand INVINCIBLE Von Aegir NANI.

[@FM-dm8xj]

@Edgy Purple Ferdinand INVINCIBLE Von Aegir bot please.

[@frankwest5388]

In my experience one can easily feel the difference. Because edgy show makers tend to be massively insecure and instead having confidence in their own creative vision, they try to imitate what they have seen before. Meaning that it feels like they try to make you think that they are deep and mature. It’s like how many awful shows have drugs, r”pe, or murder in their stories but it always feels off and weirdly highlighted with little connection to the rest of the world.

[@thanosnoctem4473]

@@frankwest5388 Edgy isn't necessarily bad imo but when they bring up such topics and don't elaborate or show its consequence is when it fails.

[@builder4578]

Sonny Boy i enjoyed without needing to think too deeply about things.I just enjoyed the ride and story never predicting whats happening next ep.Only after finishing i saw ppl have different perspective and theories and it was interesting and stucked with me once in a while.8.5/10

[@chillypepperjr]

I love how 86 is boring, war is mainly sitting around and waiting/prepping, even in obscenely active units, the waiting really gave space to hammer home the cruelty of what was being done to them which I thought was really well done

[@suisusenidsub6000]

IDK if I can agree to that. if you wanna showcase the boredom of some themes(ex: war), it doesn't necessarily mean there's no other way than making the show as boring. Like no hate, I still stand with Connor's opinion that 86's boring. It's the same feeling as when I watched Demon Slayer season 1, pure introduction, mediocre shonen, gorgeous animation but no emotion.

[@apuapustaja1]

@@suisusenidsub6000 I have never gotten demon slayer hype considering its just a very mediocre 5/10 storywise series which is only popular because of animation.

[@jsdndksmdkds]

@@apuapustaja1 You obviously do understand. It’s the animation man.

[@apuapustaja1]

​@@jsdndksmdkds I dont think of myself as an elitist jerk but animation alone shouldnt make people mad to give it a 9 or 10 score on review websites. If thats the case, then michael bay movies should be 10/10 too for the good cinematography despite having shitty stories.

[@kingdoom5022]

@@suisusenidsub6000 I don't know why you find 86 is boring , its amazing

[@uglyhippos]

I loved sonny boy. It was an anime that marched to a drum of it's own beats. There is no inner monologue so it does make you pay attention more because it was more about show not tell but when you let your mind wonder it goes in deeper then the intent of the show, novel movie or any medium its presented in. I love anime but sometimes you feel burnt out on the tropes and the stereotypical storyline. Sonny boy was a fresh of breath air so I can get back into anime with new energy.

[@SpiderJAAM]

*Smart:* The story it's executed in a way that you didn't expect, makes you (and/or most people) appreciate certain things and think of stuff in a different way & gives you an experience you're rarely ever gonna re-experience on another medium the same way. *Edgy:* Let's throw shit at the story without any set up, backstory or clue that's gonna happen, completely unrelated to what's happening and make it only to attract morbid curiosity instead of also using it as a tool to expand upon the main story and give it a new perspective.

[@MrBonzeMedal]

Edgy is just darker subject matter that doesn’t serve any purpose. Or at least doesn’t pay proper “respect” to the magnitude of what’s happening. Smart properly dissects all sides of it.

[@HearMeLearn]

this. The line between edgy and serious but good is a small one

[@frankwest5388]

Edgy isn’t bad but it can become cringy. That’s what happens when the author tries to imitate something highly regarded by others, without understanding it and it’s place in the story.

[@thegamerfe8751]

It honestly depends on the story, it's edgy if it is edgy for the sake of being edgy with no real importance to the story and being pretty much forced in. However it's not edgy if it's important to the story and helps drive the themes and generally makes the story work.

[@G.F.SF55]

Even with that definition I'm not sure if Tokyo ghoul is edgy or not

[@shi-chan5779]

@@G.F.SF55 its in the middle. I think its edgy but also not Idk

[@user-zc2hz3yj2k]

@@G.F.SF55 both.. it does move the story. But, some of the gore is straight up unnecessary lol

[@fictionalcharactermov7471]

@@user-zc2hz3yj2k I disagree the gore is needed it's literally dealing with man eating vampires

[@chrispolo25]

@@G.F.SF55Trashruto is a definition of an edgy anime

[@aminsoussi2354]

Mirai nikki is basically the example of an abysmal show that tries to be cool and deep by revealing some nonsensical plot twists every now and then. The plot, characters and storyline were shit but for some reason, some people think it's good because they somehow think it's deep.

[@KingHasian]

It was a burning mess that was very fun

[@dramaking9559]

Its one of those shows as a teenager it was awsome but looking back it is not good

[@saddocatto9245]

the opening is banger tho

[@walterHonwana]

No one thinks Mirai nikki is deep, it's just fun. Stupid, yes. But also fun. Like Guilty Crown, but Guilty Crown is fun/funny for the wrong reasons, so bad example

[@andrewgoehring9108]

ya what Walter Honwana said. It's not deep but I still like it cause....yandere. 1 character sold me on the whole show, and that's not wrong. Even if it's a bad story. Edit: Oh and the music, damn I love that.

[@CrossfeetGaming]

Sonny Boy asked a lot of questions, didn't answer most of them, and yet I'm left satisfied by the end.

[@mirroredhour]

It's up to you to find the answers. It was probably left open-ended on purpose.

[@CrossfeetGaming]

@@mirroredhour Yeah, I know. The thing is that most "open-ended" series are so obviously done because of writers' cop-outs (looking at you, harem LNs) that it comes up as shallow and an insult to those who spent time with the series. This one actually ended in a satisfying way despite (or even because) the lack of proper answers.

[@williamwang9154]

I love Sonny Boy!! It’s a show you have to feel through. Every episode has a really strong self contained theme that dictates the logic behind every event.

[@SurfsUp-cw9rv]

I think the line really sets itself in different places for different people. No one opinion's the same as another, so its always going to be blurred to a certain extent, from person to person. They're also not mutually exclusive either. That's where the beauty of entertainment media comes from, in my humble opinion.

[@bashdeasy]

At the beginning I thought they were gonna discuss "Smart or Edgy" with Made in Abyss and i was like 'yeah makes sense' but then they choose Sonny Boy lmao

[@otomeleifu]

I couldn’t get behind Dunkey not curbing the enthusiasm of his fans when they went after jrpg fans whenever he drops a review bc they take his words as gospel. Folks were getting negged constantly especially after his KH3 review. Which is fair that he didn’t like it since it was absolutely bonkers even for me as a fan. But he went out of his way to retweet folks who had any criticism against him for his fans to annoy the life out of them. It was a disaster.

[@mrhoapro1]

I'm a fan of Assassin's creed and Dunkey hate it too. Don't remember did he do that with ac or not either

[@huntzxc]

after his last of us 2 review, I just had enough

[@Hebrngr]

@@huntzxc what was bad about it?

[@keinen.0824]

@@Hebrngr golfing joel

[@shrek3747]

I get the feeling of not wanting to watch snobby shows but like, not watching it cause of that also comes off as weirdly insecure.

[@eldiablosmurf]

Sonny boy is a really special show and it makes me sad to hear trash taste talking about it like this. It really focuses on its visual storytelling, and just does that so well. It feels comfortable and sad to watch. Its a show that isnt really trying to say or preach anything, its just about what you end up feeling after you watch it. Its just a show meant to make people feel something, whatever that is will be different for everyone. Sonny boy is a really weird one. I only ended up watching or knowing about it because of ging nang boyz lmao.

[@spiderdude2099]

Pretentiousness and edgy shit can be sensed by just asking yourself this simple question: “For whatever thing/event just happened, did it feel like a natural consequence of cause and effect built up over time? Or did it feel like it was done to illicit a reaction or emotional response that doesn’t feel earned?” Imo, you can always tell shows that try to kill off a character, or have some massive twist, just for the sake of killing or twisting. It’s meant to subvert expectations but in a really artificial way. It almost seems like as you’re watching it, this was a show made by someone who started making a show with the philosophy of “I want to shock people, I want to throw things at them they won’t expect.” And you can FEEL that design philosophy seep into the show and make it feel just so artificial and staged. Akame ga kill was a perfect example of this. Episode 1, the little rich girl is getting attacked by the rebel people and she’s presented as innocent and the rebels are these brutish assassins. Then near the end she literally flips a switch and becomes a comically evil yandere and actually this innocent girl is fucked up and evil as shit. It’s shock for the sake of shock, and subversion for the sake of subversion. It’s immediately jarring and corny.

[@bonfist7277]

Idk, I think that was just a subversion and explanation. It sort of sets the motivations and unites the main characters. I guess it could still be classified as edgy, because it introduces character’s that it just killed off as if they mattered to the main character, then acted like they no-longer existed. I don’t really intend to defend Akame Ga Kill, cause I didn’t really enjoy it at all.

[@makotomachiyuki]

yandere is edgy lmao

[@openaardvark419]

The first episode isn’t that good of an example, since you could make an argument that the switch was just her realizing that she couldn’t keep up the pretense of being kind. The presentation is the problem, not the content being presented. A better example would be Sheele’s death. There is no reason Pumpkin shouldn’t have had enough firepower to incapacitate Koro for long enough to get Sheele free, and Mine would definitely thought about that. The same with Lubbock’s death, since we had never had any indication that he had a finite amount of string, given the sheer amount that he uses in the series, he would have run out long before the time he died.

[@andrewgoehring9108]

To start with I did like.....parts of akame ga kill, but yes the show has a lot of edgy BULLSHIT that I still cannot accept. The rich girl was a somewhat lazy way to show how evil, manipulative, and corrupt the "city" was to this obviously innocent and ignorant country boy. A lot of the good guy assassins died in stupid ways just to drive home how anyone can die at anytime because they are at war. In concept it should have been fine, it's a good part of narrative to remind the characters and viewers that, this isn't a classic story where good guys always win. It just did it so badly. I will defend akame's many remarks that "we are not good guys" and "we can die at anytime" she is right and I think it was good writing for her character, but when they did "not good guy things" or died it still felt like bullshit just to prove the point. The later bad guys were kinda interesting too, bols and run and I guess wave too. They were "bad guys" but a little more understandably so. They did really bad things, but they had reasons for it. So good and bad here. I will not forget how they did sheele and lubbock dirty like that.

[@bonfist7277]

@@andrewgoehring9108 the one character that survives is the most boring character in the whole show, and it’s also named after her.

[@halkun7191]

Ranking of Kings is a great show for even non anime watchers. Like the Ghibli films. Wish it got more attention

[@ArsalanAnsari77]

Atleast its popular in jp

[@uglyhippos]

It's popular with the "critics". I am watching the show right now and it's sooo good so far.

[@janisir4529]

It's pretty overrated already.

[@Ljeva]

You think so even after the 2nd cour/castle raid? It went downhill in the second half for me

[@TheClassicPug]

Everyone calls beserk edgy writing with shock as it's main strength, which in my opinion is wrong

[@Ash_Wen-li]

Maybe the first arc. But even then you'd have to ignore a lot of hints to conclude that

[@Slendysis]

@@Ash_Wen-li Black Swordsman is the first arc, right?

[@Ash_Wen-li]

@@Slendysis Yes

[@willlowry2288]

To be fair Berserk does like to spam Casca rape scenes a little too much.

[@Slendysis]

@@Ash_Wen-li Alright, cool. Yeah, even Black Swordsman is more than just edgy shock writing if you're paying attention

[@AriVersace]

Nahh Sonny Boy is truly special no debate absolutley loved it

[@voicedrewxyz]

Holy shit they talked about anime

[@nihilistictanuki6947]

Just saw Sonny Boy last week and that's only because it was in Garnt's "Best of Anime 2021" video and what he said about it appealed to me. Went in with zero expectations and binged the series in one day. This feast for the senses and brain felt more like a philosophical novella than a typical anime. Like a weird, trippy take on Albert Camus absurdism. I absolutely loved it, one of the best series in recent years.

[@ComeTseMe2]

Eighty-Six was definitely worth it, especially the ending of part 2; it's a combination of Iron Blooded Orphans with elements of Code Geass and Attack On Titan

[@janisir4529]

I honestly found part 2 unwatchable, despite liking season 1. Immediately all the fake out deaths ruined it from the get go

[@chaotic_cassie7915]

Honestly I didn’t expect to like Sonny boy but I loved it even if I don’t understand all of it, I liked thinking about it. definitely agree about the soundtrack, absolutely amazing

[@jeehoonoh]

I'm not gonna pretend like I fully understood Sonny Boy but I was still able to follow the story beats and I kind of loved the development of the characters. And yes, the OST is very good and it definitely hits different for the last episode. It's a shame that people that enjoy this show are grouped into being pretentious or edgy and not because it's just a pretty solid show.

[@MegalordMarcus]

When a show is deep it shows you something crazy impactful and lets you sit and reflect on it. When it's edgy it'll never shut up about the big thing and shove it in your face 3 times every episode for shock value

[@chrispolo25]

Trashruto in a nutshell, the king of edginess

[@inevitablelevity3137]

Sonny boy for me is like the show that leaves you with that melancholy feeling and is not for everyone. it keeps your brain stimulated coz of its indirect delivery of its plot making you think of certain things, theorize bout shit to satisfy the lingering curiosity of that empty feeling your having after you finish a certain episode

[@mr.applejuice8546]

In my opinion edgy is really just when the authors want the characters to act smarter and cooler than they are. Authors arn't idiots and they know and this shit sells otherwise trash isekai light novels would be a dying platform. They make them seem cringy lines with a cool atmosphere and make the characters around the MC act like it was the coolest shit they have seen in their entire life. Edgy animes also tend to not build up to the "smart" reveal at the end of a mystery if it is supposed to be a psychological show or if its an action show, delves too much into character deaths and needless bloodshed (akame ga kill). Meanwhile a smart anime is one that builds up the the end of the mystery or shows how a characters tries to get out of a situation. Just look at death note, many may call it edgy and yeah for certain there are many points where death note does feel pretty edgy. But overall i would consider it a smart show, light and L are smart, we know that they are and throughout the show they take generally smart actions that fit their characters. L's investigation on who kira is has build up all the way up to the end. Meanwhile Light's avoidance on the police finding out who he is downright fits his character. When he killed that investigator right in front of him, it ws risky for sure, he honestly couldve written her name after he got home and out of sight. But, he didn't because we also know that Light is arrogant as fuck and as such that very act fitted his character to a tee. Another smart show would be obviously detective conan, it already gives you all the clues in the episodes with cases its just up to you to connect the dotes or rely on conan to tell you how they connect in the end. This is the like where i feel many animes fail at. With a most recent example being tomodachi game. While reading the manga i honestly cannot fucking tell which it should be. There are many arcs where it feels like a smart anime with some edgy mixed in our main character. But the most recent last 2 just made me feel like it was edgy. In the first few arcs, there are reasons why the main character do the things that they do alongside the fact that he uses actual psychological affects to twist a situation into his favor but the recent arcs dont do that at all or very minimally

[@fictionalcharactermov7471]

I don't agree with Akame ga kill example

[@chrispolo25]

Like Trashruto edginess

[@FlutterSwag]

I feel like ill be rewatching sonny boy every couple years like i can binge flcl in a day or 2

[@stephensmithvids]

I had the same feeling as Joey when I watched Donny Darko for the first time, I've only seen it once, and I had no idea what was going on

[@boringbone]

If the struggle and misery has a meaning, philosophically or plot-wise, other than an attempt to shock an audience, then it's smart. Otherwise it's just edgy. Writing execution also plays a part in dividing the two

[@TheAnimeMangaClub2121]

Connor talking about the Valhalla Bloody Halloween fight is so real. I love Tokyo Revengers but that part was a huge drag, my friend and I had spent all afternoon from No Pain, No Gain till the very last episode, and I thought that arc was cool and interesting because it was about Mikey, throwing out all sense of teenage logic in the show for me by that point. But it just dragged a little to long, I thought that fight would never end Joey saying that this show is a read the manga show is so real for that to be honest

[@hostedbysimples5416]

Sonny Boy is a fever dream that just happened to have a budget to get animated.

[@shyguy5473]

Re zero is an edgy show but it has a right amount of balance because it contrasts with the colourful world it's set in. It didn't feel over the top when Subaru was dying or him watching someone die. That's why when Subaru dies the audience does suffer. It doesn't feel pretentious and is not even trying to be.

[@bonfist7277]

The series takes death more serious than anybody that watches it. It’s edgy due to brutality, but it is still written in a very aware way and has wholesome messages amongst the struggle.

[@fili0938]

Re Zero's edginess doesn't feel out of place because the story takes every death seriously.

[@kingdoom5022]

Re zero isn't edgy lol

[@fictionalcharactermov7471]

I wouldn't classify rezero as edgy

[@TrillyThough]

I gotta finish 86 Part 2. It was off to a good start.

[@ComeTseMe2]

I just finished it and it's DEFINITELY worth it

[@arifjawadalam1777]

Yes bro. It’s on my top 10. And the LN 👌🏻

[@neerajn376]

I think Death Note is one of the shows that draws the line between smart and edgy anime

[@TheCreepypro]

being a good critic means despite your bias you can still point out the good and bad to others

[@redv.402]

smart is when you’re allowing everyone to understand the subject, edgy is when no one else is allowed to understand because you’re the superior

[@fictionalcharactermov7471]

yh no

[@Darcmagikan1]

Sonny Boy became my favorite anime of all time, because it's themes of eternal existence and dreamlike worlds are smth i think about all the time, as the end of my existence is my biggest fear. Connor just calling it shit without having seen it, that looks pretentious to me: "What no i didn't watch that riffraff, i am above these anime that just wanna look deep. of corse i can see a trailer and know everything about it! not prb with just not being interested, but acting like this just makes you look rather stupid.

[@gh0st6762]

Damn sonny boy got done dirty

[@iamawatcher9201]

9:30 Grant does the pen spinning thing again

[@palegrey444]

problem w/ sonny boy and shows like it its all about directing and presentation. I think FLCL is a masterpiece, and shows like Texhnolyze, Haibane Renmei, Mushishi and the like are all amazing and have great directing but Sonny Boys presentation really didn't help me immerse myself into the story and tried way too hard to look profound rather than just be like the other shows I listed

[@megagamingrayquaza7137]

The naked face podcast

[@ironny2419]

sonny boy is one of the best things to consume out there

[@Low_Tier_Elf]

The good example to explain the line: Smart- Puella Magi Madoka Magica Edgy- Magical Girl Site

[@mysmallnoman]

" a show i like is edgy, a show I don't like isn't " Lol

[@sirhellsing]

@@mysmallnoman tbh I think I agree with this guy. There's a reason why MGS is not that popular, because it's edge for the sake of edge

[@mysmallnoman]

@@sirhellsing again, that literally means nothing

[@roudxh3268]

i didn't understand shit when i finished sonny boy but still love the show anyway. It has a lot of charm and cool ideas that i haven't seen being used in anime before

[@FlamasNegras]

I really like dark shows, in general, so it usually depends for me if there is a point to the violence and gore. For example, Parasyte use it very well to tell the point of survival. So does the Tokyo Ghoul manga. But, I usually see people talking down on shows like Akame Ga Kill, but I actually believe that show is pretty good, though it is not the most philosophical show there is. It is a show about emotion and corruption, so it gets pretty extreme, but sometimes the world is as broken as the world of Akame Ga Kill, so there is a point to this. It is a show about the emotions you feel when you deal with really broken or corrupt people or systems. And it is good at that. It is not flawless in anyway, but it is good enough at what it does. Akame Ga Kill feels honest and that is actually its strongest point.

[@FlamasNegras]

@Pedro Ortega I do prefer the manga also, overall.

[@Ektuma]

Akame Ga kill is just like a fun ride the best way i can say about the show is it gave me a feeling that AoT s1 gave me.. The show just shoved you in with characters that you barely have a connection and just killed them the next moment. Protagonist child hood friends Big brother guy,scissor girl dead before i could care about them the same goes for every other character i felt like the villains had more characterization than the main cast...but I kinda get what the writer was trying to do with the world and characters(thier jobs were dangerous and they could die in any job they took) but it felt way too quick that by the end i was completely desensitized of thier death

[@theresnothinghere1745]

@Pedro Ortega The manga is definitely much better, IMO the best example of why is Wave, Kurome and Run. In the anime there really isn't much to them besides making them all sad from kurome dying. While the manga instead kills Run but uses that death to push Wave towards saving Kurome both via the death itself but also via Run's puppet corpse and ends up using the bond between the 3 of them to stop Akame and Kurome's fight in stark contrast to what everyone else had believed was possible. Which I feel goes back to link to Wave role as a reflection of Tatsumi and their difference in approach to changing the empire. While for the show Tatsumi's approach is shown to be more necessary, Wave's approach is given value as only by being in the jaegers as Kurome's companion was he able to stop her. Something that both Akame and Tatsumi could never have done by directly opposing her and infact both believed was impossible.

[@boshwa20]

Wasn't there a guy in the manga that kept on piling terrible traits on him to the point of hilarity? Think he was a clown or something. He was a serial killer, but he was also a child experimenter, a pedophile, AND a necrophiliac.

[@Skeleton20133]

Except Akame Ga Kill is edgy for the sake of being one

[@Le_Samourai]

Just because the author says he didn't intend for something to be analyzed in X way doesn't mean it's invalid to analyze it in X way. author's intent isn't everything

[@fictionalcharactermov7471]

yes and no

[@Le_Samourai]

@@fictionalcharactermov7471 ?

[@nihilistictanuki6947]

The point about the critics was very, very important. This hypocritical objectivity, which is propagated again and again, simply does not exist, especially in media and art. Usually those responsible just don't have enough edge and shy away from scaring away consumers and their patrons (sponsors or publishers who provide their review copies or invite to the premiere). It's important to me to know the taste of a reviewer, because I can use this to roughly estimate how I would like it, provided he can articulate himself accordingly.

[@Revealingstorm.]

Sunny boy is like Lain but it doesn't have many of the things that Lain has that gripped me

[@lawanimeshorts]

The answer to the question is always gonna be personal interpretation.

[@theworldsmostplagiarizedma2436]

FLCL is so comprehensive, despite it's absolute bonkers nature.

[@michaeljames9548]

The movie is adapted from an Audio drama that accompanied the manga.

[@aalalagikun5492]

I have watched some shows just for the soundtrack like K project. The whole show has such a good soundtrack.

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

LOVE THIS DISCUSSIONS SO MUCH!!!

[@tedhaidydei8261]

Garnt definitely deserves his title as the protagonist of trash taste.

[@TrillyThough]

I didn't finish Sonny Boy because I fell off of anime last year in general. I got to episode 10 do I'm gonna finish it soon. I was really, really digging it. Great show.

[@DeathXtremeHaseo]

I love 86 BUT there were times I just let the episodes build up binge them. Like I have a relatively short attention span for most things, so the moment I get 2 episodes back to back of just exposition/world building etc, my "stamina" meter starts dropping heavily. Another anime that happened that I remember was Re Creators (I think it legit had like 5 episodes back to back of just exposition). Some anime like Overlord just don't interest me though. I did binge Tokyo Revengers in like 2 or 3 days but I understand what Conner said about the last eps.

[@jimjimson6208]

bro you are doing yourself a favour not watching the overlord anime. I don't know how it is getting another season after the travesty that was the finale of the most recent one. My eyes still burn to this day. I don't think overlord is particularly good in the first place, but my god does the anime have some of the worst production I have seen. That finale is probably hands down the ugliest piece of """animation"""" I have ever seen in my life. Shit literally looks like mfers played with ps2 models in gmod for a few hours and then said "aight, drop it"

[@DeathXtremeHaseo]

@@jimjimson6208 Oh yeah, I saw those

[@Arassar]

I'm one of the people who really didn't like Tokyo Revengers - by the end of episode 2, it had become so dumb that I couldn't take it anymore.

[@nelisezpasce]

What did you expect? Something similar to one of your favorites?

[@anggakarapreviandana2877]

Smart and Edgy is really - really different and has no correlation towards each other. However Edgy can also be smart, it depends on the quality of the writing or storytelling. It is a shame most media I see or hear are trying too hard to be either pretentious, edgy, or both (especially in the early 2000). Feel free to reply (Though I can't reply back due to the reply button not working (Unfortunately) on my part).

[@jonnyOysters]

I'm not really sure how they're mutually exclusive TBH Something can be edgy and smart or neither.

[@shawnatlast]

Pretty much. They're not opposites either. Simply descriptors of xyz thing that can vary in quality

[@ianfinrir8724]

I love how Made In Abyss starts out sorta cute and happy and then almost immediately punches you in the face with a brick wrapped in tinfoil.

[@Ektuma]

In the topic of smart and edgy i feel like Vinland Saga anime nails the balance pretty well considering the place and time in which the story takes place the story never shoves it into your face.

[@Ash_Wen-li]

Thorfinn is just edgy because it's part of his character arc. I wouldn't say the rest of the story is edgy

[@karnakua8054]

The line is there. Right between Tokyo Ghoul and Parasyte, the former on the more edgy side. Granted, I did give them a 6 and a 7 respectively on MAL, but its evident where the differences are between the two shows

[@oz9220]

Parasyte had a theme going on and and it felt very mature, their execution was amazing IMHO! Not sure if tokyo ghoul had that, So that comparison is unfair lmao!

[@karnakua8054]

@@oz9220 it may just come down to peraonal preference, but I honestly didn't enjoy Parasyte as much as others did. Acc I may just copy and paste what I said about it a year ago: "The storyline felt underdeveloped/rushed, especially toward the end with the final battle between Shinichi and Gotou - the fight ended with migi basically doing the exact same thing it had done all series, protecting shin while shin himself was a passenger. I don't think there was a single well-written prevalent character apart from Tamura and Shin at sporadic points during the show and his personality felt forced and cliché to keep the story running. I mean he began as a nerd/Poindexter with a phobia of bugs, parasyte hits him and BOOM, he almost Instantaneously becomes this überzügig, stoic, cold-faced, ball of swagger who forgets basic human emotion. Granted, he gets it back with clever writing and a decent moral/theme to go alongside, but it really seemed like they focused more on a 'self-insert character' image as a sacrifice for better character writing. The entire second half of the show really just felt like a mess though - no cohesion at all between certain scenes and even entire arcs at one point. It was the part where the dialogue and plot/character progression should have been at its VERY best, and it just wasn't, which is a shame, because despite its flaws, the first half was a pretty good setup for the climax of the series. I did like that there was very little plot armour (except that one girl right at the very end), and that the premise and theme the show tackled was unique and excecuted to a decent degree. I think the peak of this show was the Pregnancy arc and that one scene at the school where the buff parasyte Dude runs loose - the depth of emotion portrayed in this scene was so good. Shin's Relationship with Migi was great from a psychological standpoint but on a physical front, it was mainly Migi doing the work, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I just feel it didn't live up to its potential, unfortunately, which I think is the biggest issue hampering it. There was so much potential to be found, but it couldn't latch onto it. There were points in this anime that were brilliant, its just a shame that its troughs were deep as fuck. Between 6/7 out of 10, leaning more toward 7."

[@tarunganesg9700]

I mean for tokyo ghoul are you talking about manga or anime, I felt like the manga for tokyo ghoul was really good, probably better than parasyte.

[@Dagowit]

2:47 they're doing it again

[@makkunn5929]

tf is this dude talking about lol no fight in tokyo revengers lasted more than 3-4 eps , infact they don't even last a single ep usually (except valhalla fight which was about 4 eps)

[@TrillyThough]

A student tried to get me to watch Tokyo Revengers. I made it like 4 episodes in and...yeah, maybe I will read the manga...after One Piece ends.

[@theman9773]

I haven't watch it but why do you stop at episode 4?

[@KingMufasa_8]

I also recommend the manga, season 1 is pretty tough to get into but luckily season 2 onwards will be a lot better. I started loving the series when I read ahead

[@fili0938]

I don't even know why I like Tokyo Revengers. Something about it makes me like it but I can't call it particularly good writing

[@adrianmak9680]

Whao clean shaved Joey

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

Connor, we don't enjoy Sonny Boy and shows like that because we want to be pretentious. As we're throwing gratuitous offenses around, we enjoy shows like that because we're not illiterate troglodytes with an attention span of a Marvel movie. Joey, there's no "what's it's ACTUALLY about." It's open to interpretation. Otherwise, there would be no need to watch it, just ask the creator. It's not to say you cannot wave batshit stupid theories about a work of art, you can, and it's actually rather easy and widely done. But the fact something is overinterpreted doesn't invalidate other interpretations. And often the author's is rather poorer, because the work, when it's great, is far beyond the author's apparent intentions. And one of the reasons is that, most of the time, they're not TRYING to create a work of art, but just to make a living. The fact they they DO create a work of great art despite of that is a mark of their genius. Very few people are as aware of their genius as Beethoven was, for example.

[@tedhaidydei8261]

nah, i thought sunny boy was pretty straightforward. It was exactly what it was showing.

[@Shindy117]

8:30 pretty much sums up the world of warcraft lore people

[@longphan7656]

Hot take: Tokyo Revenger is just Yakuza/Ryu Ga Gotoku lite, and for teenagers i rather go play Yakuza again

[@macmac8222]

Okay but Sonny Boy does a lot of different stuff and that originality is why I watch anime. for me its a 8.5 SONNY BOY GOOD. I get hating on pretentious is valid tho.

[@rusty02]

People really don't know the difference between edgy and smart. Smart: ayanokoji, hikigaya, oreki Edgy: sasuke, kaneki Edgy defination: An example of an edgy person is someone who is constantly annoyed. An example of an edgy person is someone with multiple tattoos and dozens of piercings. adjective.

[@yannispirou101]

That's not 100% true. Edgy is someone who's trying to be different and cool compared to everyone else.

[@hieinh]

ID Invaded makes you think but it's not so confusing once it ends

[@corincampbell2510]

Joey looks east to draw

[@lesedimokgobi7399]

One thing I can say about Sonny Boy is that it messaging is incredibly simple, but put in a complex package. Thus, most people over think the very plain points the show is making. If you take the show COMPLETELY at face value you'd understand everything that's going on. Which made it kinda boring for me compared to shows like Eureka 7

[@mysmallnoman]

It's literally a Reddit anime

[@tedhaidydei8261]

@@mysmallnoman it's really not, the show literally conveys what it is going to be about in the second episode, like you really don't have to sit there and think about it super deeply. It kind of just is what it shows.

[@ernestogonzalez8960]

CDawg liking Odd Taxi and not Sonny Boy is proof he prefers to be spoon fed his themes and plot. Try some critical analysis, Dawg.

[@keinen.0824]

And what's wrong with that though?

[@user-iy9uk3rm1o]

I feel good that those less smart people like the right guy, openly speak about their intellectual misery

[@ameenaftab2803]

I always aling towards Connor but will never understand his love towards JoJo

[@sausev]

Man I love Sonny Boy ❤

[@user-iy9uk3rm1o]

I wouldn’t think of myself as about extremely intelligent being, whose intellect is so above average human, that I am technically not a human anymore, if there weren’t people like the right guy.

[@mistah3687]

imo, smart shows know when to show restraint, edgy shows don't

[@bhavikshah6684]

the movie will be a recap with added scenes

[@f1r3hunt3rz5]

Another ones to the to be watched list

[@dramaking9559]

I honesly dont know but best i can define the two Smart: This is how we can power up the robot with solar panels here, here, and here. That way we should in theory keep it powerup fighting those demonic human eating monsters Edgy: You're a fool for thinking you could beat us. You're ego knows no bound. All your evil deeds and scheme were twarded by none other than me. You lost" *Turns around and walks as the camers turns to the bad guy on their knees and the canera slowly fading to black*

[@mermaidsabrina7896]

i mean i do love the tokyo revengers series but i can understand why people wouldn't enjoy it its not for everyone i think the series is either meant for someone who loves fighting or.........just wants to look at the hot guys

[@KittenShogun]

If these guys say something is bad or stupid, its probably good and very enjoyable.

[@KeaghanV3]

Smart and edgy… sounds like ergo proxy

[@ketsunoAna123]

the problem is how is edgy and smart is the question? edgy is not bad and theres nothing to do about being smart