Where Star Trek Picard Went Wrong

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Rowan J Coleman

Rowan J Coleman

Күн бұрын

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@Christobanistan
@Christobanistan Жыл бұрын
"Season two was largely disliked" holy fuck that's the greatest understatement in the history of Star Trek.
@DamonCzanik
@DamonCzanik Жыл бұрын
😆 Right? That's like saying "Adolf Hitler has widely been considered an unpleasant person." While true, you'd hope a writer could come up with something more descriptive to the actual sentiment.
@TrekTrav
@TrekTrav Жыл бұрын
I actually liked it.
@darqen666
@darqen666 9 ай бұрын
I just finished it and it was hard going. It's a shame because i thought the first episode was great. It reminded me of 24 season 6, just lurching from one unlikely situation and place to another each episode.
@INKSTARS1138
@INKSTARS1138 7 ай бұрын
@@TrekTrav me too, actually. I actually liked it more than s1. (Not that I ddin't like s1 but it was less graphically gory, which was nice). I have yet to see s3, I was worried it was too "TNG lite". I also can't afford paramount plus rn lmao
@losmosquitos1108
@losmosquitos1108 6 ай бұрын
@404TVfrstop trolling or hating. Since when is a personal opinion wrong or right? It is neither and only subjective.
@existentialselkath1264
@existentialselkath1264 Жыл бұрын
If they wanted their cliche big bad universe ending threat, they could have pulled a mass effect reaper situation. Have archeologist Picard slowly discover the remains of an ancient threat over the course of a season or the whole show 🤷‍♂️
@georgezachos7322
@georgezachos7322 Жыл бұрын
I'd like that. A missed opportunity...
@noneed4me2n7
@noneed4me2n7 Жыл бұрын
So many better sci-fi stories they could’ve ripped off, I mean played homage to.
@Kujakuseki01
@Kujakuseki01 Жыл бұрын
Except Mass Effect’s biggest mistake was focusing the entire series on the reapers instead of having them just be the villains in the first game. After preventing them coming through the citadel, they were supposed to have been tens of thousands of years away. The universe was so rich that it would’ve been great to have different villains every game. #2 found the balance perfectly by having the villains be the collectors with the reapers lurking in the background. ME3 undermines all of it. “Oh, the reapers can just get to the Galaxy somehow anyway even without ftl travel so what Shepard achieved in the first two games ultimately was meaningless.
@existentialselkath1264
@existentialselkath1264 Жыл бұрын
@@Kujakuseki01 I have to disagree. But first, to clarify, the reapers have FTL travel, everyone does, just not effectively instantaneous travel that the mass relays provide. They slowly make their way with standard ftl and reach the galaxy by the end of me2 and it'll still take them 6 months just to travel from one side of the galaxy to the other without a relay (arrival DLC). I do think ME1 nailed the reapers in a way they never recaptured since, but I think that comes down to lazy writing in me2 where the harbinger acts more like a Saturday morning cartoon villain than the eldritch horror of Sovereign. As for ME3, the introduction was incredible. That completely nailed the threat of the reapers. As the game went on, and even earth hadn't fallen yet, you realise that the galaxy kinda has plot armor that's waiting until you reach the ending for the reapers to do anything. They didn't even wipe out earth, one of the first planets hit. Then the whole end of the game was just lazy. I don't think the concept was bad at all though, that constant threat made the series so memorable for me.
@jack1701e
@jack1701e Жыл бұрын
That's a really good concept! Doing Galen proud and also saving the galaxy, bringing his crew back together and finding new friends along the way, all to save the galaxy once more!
@BruceLeedar
@BruceLeedar Жыл бұрын
What you wanted was well beyond the capabilities of the writing/producing team on Picard. The type of person who is both deeply familiar with the Star Trek universe and ethos but also enthusiastic about charting a new course while somehow maintaining a consistency with prior media, a very difficult needle to thread, is a rare person to find, especially limiting yourself to Hollywood. RLM's comic book concepts (at the start of the Mr Plinkett Picard review) probably came close, although they are niche and narrow appeal. Matalas's 'retreat' into TNG was the best you were ever going to get.
@petekwando
@petekwando Жыл бұрын
I am now more sad about the missed potential of the first two seasons than I was before. A Star Trek archeology/tomb raider focused show would have been so terrific.
@Sword5x
@Sword5x Жыл бұрын
There are two other ideas that kind of explain why Picard was a mess. In interviews, Patrick Stewart mentioned his reaction to Brexit and how that influenced the plot. You can also read Picard as a bizarre reaction to his time on Logan. With season one playing like a weird twist of Logan meets Star Trek. The archaeology season would have been fun.
@paulpatton5994
@paulpatton5994 Жыл бұрын
It also occurred to me that Picard should have been an archeologist, out on the frontier studying the ruins of a dead civilization, and experiencing Indiana Jones type adventures.
@v.sandrone4268
@v.sandrone4268 Жыл бұрын
You could call it "Picard: The away missions"
@AJPMUSIC_OFFICIAL
@AJPMUSIC_OFFICIAL Жыл бұрын
Opportunity wasted, same as star wars.
@punksci6879
@punksci6879 Жыл бұрын
I think the scope is the big issue, not every story needs to be the end of the universe, and I blame the budget and CGI. When you're spending that much money it I think it feels like you need to justify it in universe with an event that matches the budget. The story I wanted to see would have been Picard at the Romulan refugee town trying to win them over and build something new.
@Nostripe361
@Nostripe361 Жыл бұрын
This is a problem in almost all fantasy and scifi series now a day. Everything needs to be world ending. Not only does everything need to be the worst but they don't let you have some buildup as most stories are written so that the main threat can be identified in like the second chapter.
@Zenn3k
@Zenn3k Жыл бұрын
Unless that budget needs to be spent on having different ships on screen at once...the copy/pasted ships at the end Picard S1 was some of the laziest shit ever seen in Trek.
@ArchOfWinter
@ArchOfWinter Жыл бұрын
I agree! Season 1's galactic ending threat felt too shoe horned in. It should have stayed personal about Data. If they wanted a conspiracy, it should have been kept as political one, not demi-god robo related one.
@mhoppy6639
@mhoppy6639 Жыл бұрын
Plus one. Every cliff has to be a biiiig one. Every black hole the one that needs to will destroy “everything” every situation world ending. It’s not just Picard it’s avengers, it’s All. Of. Them. Just tone it down and let’s examine the characters. That’s what Black mirror seems to get right and others get so wrong. It’s reduced to the emotional effect on people. And that’s compelling.
@riogrande5761
@riogrande5761 Жыл бұрын
I agree. This is a pit that has repeated too many times with Star Trek. It's why I disliked the TOS movies. Each one had to be a bombastic story rather than just good writing.
@TheDominatorT100
@TheDominatorT100 Жыл бұрын
Your pitch for the alternate Picard show sounds a lot like the novel The Buried Age, where Picard leaves Starfleet after the Stargazer incident to become a lecturer and ends up going on an adventure to uncover ancient alien data storage facilities with a ragtag crew of archaeologists and butting heads with Starfleet when requesting their assistance. It also deals with him working through a lot of his past trauma, losing faith in his abilities, and unsure of his place in the Federation, and would've worked really well tweaked to fit the post-Nemesis era.
@null6634
@null6634 4 ай бұрын
That would have been perfect. Instead we got Mass Effect in season 1. I'm glad I binged the first two seasons before season 3. I don't think I could have gotten through a weekly series. I did enjoy 3. But it was a extinction level event by the Borg. Didn't we get a friendly Borg Queen in S2? Oh, she was busy somewhere doing stuff.
@marktimothysmith3981
@marktimothysmith3981 Жыл бұрын
I think a big issue with trying to do Picard-focused series is that the seven main TNG characters are still such an iconic crew, and so some fans will have wanted all of those characters back within the first season. Basically, they're too beloved to *not* return. It's a bit like if Red Dwarf came back as just 'Red Dwarf: Lister' and the other three characters were no longer main cast members. I'd personally want Rimmer, Cat and Kryten to continue being part of the main cast - I'd miss them too much otherwise :)
@ajayrious
@ajayrious Жыл бұрын
Agreed. As much as characters like Picard and Data were such standouts, one of TNGs strengths was its ensemble cast. (and this was again taken further with DS9)
@dosmastrify
@dosmastrify Жыл бұрын
That's part of it but it's the same thing as Luke Skywalker's progression, this is not an ending we could ever see for this character without it being a far worse descent then was portrayed. Yes and human can get beat down to the point where they just don't care anymore but these two characters it would have taken a lot more
@Its__Good
@Its__Good Жыл бұрын
I appreciate what you're saying, that TNG was so iconic that fans couldn't help but want it to return properly over a new Picard show. But then that's also a bit like the argument against TNG when fans said that Star Trek had to have Kirk, Spock and Bones otherwise it wasn't Trek. I think we can all accept that DS9, and (to varying degrees) Voyager and Enterprise showed that you can make extremely good Trek that moved beyond TNG. It should have been possible to write a story containing only Picard that we could still all enjoy - the same way that they could do a TNG episode that spent all it's time with Picard. But I appreciate that I feel about this stuff a bit differently to the average fan, I don't really care about member berries - I don't care about ships or seeing familiar faces, I care about the stories, the world building and the character arcs.
@user-yv4mm6bx3c
@user-yv4mm6bx3c Жыл бұрын
I would have liked season three to be season one and then branch off and do the Indiana Picard story after that. Hell have him meet another archeology colleague played by Harrison Ford lol, but seriously, I like the Archeoloist idea way better than that vomit we got in the first two seasons.
@KaleRylan
@KaleRylan Жыл бұрын
@@Its__Good I think kind of poo-pooing nostalgia in a project about an actor returning to a role after 20 years is a bit... something. It's a nostalgia project. It's NOT the same as the kirk, spock, and bones thing to a lot of people, because I'm perfectly fine with doing new trek with new crews (I actually WISH they would make a new trek with a new crew, even Legacy while I hope it gets made I would have liked more if it has stayed on a ship called Titan with Captain Shaw, a new character, rather than if it does get made being another enterprise show with a captain we already know). That's not the issue here. The issue here is doing new PICARD trek without the characters that traditionally surrounded him, especially given that the actors are, blessedly, still alive and healthy. Now, that said, I DO think you could do a picard solo project, but I think the right answer would have been to make it more fun. Someone mentioned archaeology and that could have worked. I think fun would have disguised the fact that you're missing these other characters. By making it so dark you're left being depressed AND missing the crew.
@BaseOfOperations2
@BaseOfOperations2 Жыл бұрын
Honestly I think a major issue was just that the three seasons were poorly written. The writers looked up TNG and cherry-picked fan favourite elements without ever really attempting to understand what made them special. I don’t think very much research was done beyond a cursory surface level, and I don’t think the writers much cared about Star Trek’s legacy, getting anything accurate or making sure everything made sense. What we got was a lot of waffling dialogue about the characters’ feelings like a tween drama, a *lot* of reusing sets (Jesus, the Picard mansion *again?*) and lots of dramatic reveals that turned out to be the same old villains. The whole endeavour was a huge missed opportunity that better writers could have capitalised on. The saving grace though, was having the old crew back together on the Enterprise for those last couple of episodes. Contrived, absolutely, but damn did it hit the nostalgia.
@ForlornCreature
@ForlornCreature Жыл бұрын
I wish they had all the characters crying hugging each other and saying "because we're starfleet" and then lots of lasers shot at things I think that would be great
@awesomedayz3465
@awesomedayz3465 Жыл бұрын
"The Chase" is one of my go-to episodes. Another well thought out essay. Bravo sir.
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle 9 ай бұрын
Oh...well, I think I enjoyed it up until the ending. I mean the species in the show mostly looked similar for budgetary reasons. And everyone knows that. And I just thought it was kind of lame. (Maybe I should rewatch it.)
@Eazy-ERyder
@Eazy-ERyder Жыл бұрын
Where it went wrong was with the first TWO whole SEASONS - largely because of the lack of his original crew. But season 3 was absolutely spectacular and left the door open for one more conclusion. Patrick Stewart has already said he would sign on to a possible "Picard" movie that would once more include the rest of the TNG cast.
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle 9 ай бұрын
Yes I agree spectacular.
@blueray15
@blueray15 Жыл бұрын
I like your idea so much better then what we got. I feel like they almost could have Picard try to get a ship (well shuttle) from Starfleet and get turned down. So he decides to form his own crew. The crew he hires is a bunch of misfits that at first are just in it for the money but find a cause they rally against. I'm kind thinking Leverage in space. Maybe ending with them chasing after something for the greater good probably some artifact. So basically an adventures story but somewhat low stakes (at least at first).
@Redrally
@Redrally Жыл бұрын
Same honestly. Would've made it stand apart from Discovery much more easily.
@volters9561
@volters9561 Жыл бұрын
There is no money in that universe.
@krixpop
@krixpop Жыл бұрын
@@volters9561 Ferengi left the chat ...
@volters9561
@volters9561 Жыл бұрын
In Federation there is no money. You are right its not so much in other parts of galaxy.@@krixpop
@krixpop
@krixpop Жыл бұрын
@@volters9561 👍🍻
@reddblackjack
@reddblackjack Жыл бұрын
I completely agree with you. Back in the 90's, I came up with an idea for a star trek spin off about a retired star fleet admiral going around helping people on different planets with different problems. Kinda Columbo/ McGyver in space. I even thought of a forensic tricorder he could carry around. Your idea about Indiana Jones in space is totally what they should have done. Maybe something in between these ideas would have been even better. I have always thought that a mostly starfleet free star trek show is a workable idea!
@progKansas
@progKansas Жыл бұрын
I think something similar to Route 66 or The Fugitive, the 60s tv series would be more like it.
@joaopedroalves6777
@joaopedroalves6777 Жыл бұрын
Can you give any details about this "forensic tricorder", what would be the difference between it and a standard medical or regular tricorder?
@reddblackjack
@reddblackjack Жыл бұрын
@@joaopedroalves6777 well it was just an idea. It would be specialized like a medical tricorder. Useful in DNA scanning, fingerprinting, remain analysis, identity identification, all the stuff that was a dream to forensic analysts back in the 90's and stuff that they wish they had now. Like this new thing, forensic genetic genealogy. What if instead of weeks of work by many people, it just took seconds with a button press on a forensic tricorder?
@reddblackjack
@reddblackjack Жыл бұрын
So, check this. You're a 24th century investigator and you're on an alien planet. You're called to investigate a murder at an alien hotel. Nothing looks anything like what you as a 21rst century human would recognize, but you're intelligent enough to realize that someone has died in a rentable room. You go up to the door of the room, hit a button on your FT(forensic tricorder), six fingerprints: two housekeepers, the guest, the manager, an alien hooker and a room service attendant. You go in and scan. There's a couple footprints on your tricorder and guests DNA. Then the bathroom: victim lying on the floor, walls bloodied. Push a button on the FT. Most of that blood belongs to the vic, but there are two spots on the sink, not the Vic's. Another button on the FT. This guy's maternal grandmother has her DNA scanned for an exam 120 years ago on Risa and that he might paternally be related to colonel Green, though distantly. Another button press tells you the suspect is part Klingon on his father's side and that his DNA suggests a propensity for psychopathy and violence. Then another button on your FT tells you that you actually met a cousin of his at a crime prevention conference on Casperia Prime twelve years ago and that reaching out to him is your first, best chance of catching this killer. All in a few seconds on the FT.
@SurasshuBlue
@SurasshuBlue Жыл бұрын
A better idea instead of "We ran out of villains, so how about the Borg? For three seasons? Sounds like a plan."
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle 9 ай бұрын
I was surprised by that twist, because I expected to see the Changelings. (Though sadly we know Odo would not have been available.) Anyway, yeah it was total fan service. And I ate it up actually.
@opinionateddrone
@opinionateddrone Жыл бұрын
I've been quietly wondering why Picard seemed to have completely forgotten his passion for archeology. Before Picard came out, I honestly thought he would be spelunking in alien ruins, and it was really disappointing that this wasn't the case
@ReaverLordTonus
@ReaverLordTonus Жыл бұрын
While I find the concept of Picard leaving the chair and becoming the old wise professor on an intergalactic archeological adventure. We forget the words of wisdom from one of his predecessors, Captain Kirk, "don't let them promote you, don't let them transfer you, don't let them do anything, that takes you off the bridge of that ship because while you're there, you can really make a difference." Picard leaving starfleet would be the antithesis of all that. So in a way the writers locked themselves into a difficult spot, where the captain place is always on the bridge of a starship, it's why DS9 had to introduce the Defiant to the series, so the captain wouldn't always be behind a desk.
@ManOutofTime913
@ManOutofTime913 22 күн бұрын
Kirk was also in love with his ship, though. Picard didn't have such a personal attachment to the Enterprise D and he was past the age of Kirk's cowboy command style when TNG started. He certainly loved exploration and cared about doing the right thing, but he never seemed the type to mind getting promoted. That's why it was so baffling in Season 1 where Riker treats him like a lovable rogue.
@Razorgeist
@Razorgeist Жыл бұрын
I think you make an excellent point and I do like your concept better than what we got. The whole archeology angle could have made an excellent Borg origin story. Picard discovers the ancient Borg homeworld and we see stuff similar to the giger-esque Borg concepts that Ricardo Delgado did for First Contact. That being said... goddamn did I love season 3! And the return of the Enterprise-D
@Keithustus
@Keithustus Жыл бұрын
“V’ger” will eliminate the contamination of the carbon units.
@arthurward2067
@arthurward2067 Жыл бұрын
These are great ideas which would have greatly benefited the show. However there was one more obstacle that the writers needed to move past. And that's the idea that they were making 10 hour long films, which caused massive structural issues, especially in season 2, when they should have been thinking more in terms of how you might structure a novel with each episode acting as a chapter.
@IsiahTomas
@IsiahTomas Жыл бұрын
The structure always did bother me a bit there.
@ManOutofTime913
@ManOutofTime913 22 күн бұрын
That's what Season 3 did correctly. The whole show was split into three acts like a film, but each episode had a purpose and told its own story that was part of the larger sequence of events going on.
@ShaunWGibson
@ShaunWGibson Жыл бұрын
A big problem for me was each series hinging on a two-parter plot spread over an entire series.
@mahatmarandy5977
@mahatmarandy5977 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I agree with your assessment. And if they wanted to do universe ending threats, that is really a very easy thing to do with an archaeologist. There are no shortage of Lovecraft in stories, in which someone uncover some ancient unspeakable horror or problem, or even opportunity. And hell, Stargate SG one got 214 episodes out of an archaeologist in space. I agree that would have been a much wiser road to travel.
@thulyblu5486
@thulyblu5486 Жыл бұрын
I'm thinking of "the great filter" that is often discussed when it comes to Fermi's paradox which is: Why aren't there Aliens? If the Universe is billions of years old and space travel is possible, aliens had time to spread and should be everywhere and easy to find (like in Star Trek), but they aren't easy to find for us, so what's that about - that problem is the "Fermi paradox". Often it is proposed that there is some kind of "great filter" that kills off civilizations and the earth might be about to encounter that filter. A Star Trek universe archeologist could find loads of dead civilizations and find clues about a great filter approaching for most life forms, warning all Star Trek races that it's about to get nasty! But nobody listens, they question the archeologist's findings etc. You could get plenty of drama out of that one! I'd watch it. The great filter could also be many smaller filters, one for each season. Borg-like replicators eating all life, a galaxy wide gamma ray burst, the rediscovery of hyper-destructive weapons (like nukes for earth), Q Shenanigans, So many possibilities.
@mahatmarandy5977
@mahatmarandy5977 Жыл бұрын
@@thulyblu5486 agreed. But there’ve been, I think, nine Trek shows now, and all but two of them have been basically the exact same thing with minor variations. They basically don’t like taking chances as a franchise, and since Picard was one of those two differences, and it was wildly unpopular until they decided to turn it into TNG Season 8, I don’t think they’ll be in any great hurry to try something substantially new again any time soon
@thulyblu5486
@thulyblu5486 Жыл бұрын
@@mahatmarandy5977 Maybe you're right. Still, I'll try to remain hopeful. I'll pitch the idea in my next meeting with film producers. All I gotta do before is start my career because I have none.
@thatotherted3555
@thatotherted3555 10 ай бұрын
The weirdest part is that there was still an archaeological mystery involved in the plot of season 1-the ring-thingie in the middle of the 8-star system that imparted a message to anyone who touched it. They still could've worked that in.
@ManOutofTime913
@ManOutofTime913 22 күн бұрын
@@mahatmarandy5977 You can place a lot of the blame for that on Rick Berman. He had an unnecessarily rigid view of what Roddenberry's vision of the franchise was, even though the man had plenty of off-kilter ideas which didn't conform to the exploratory angle, and limited what the other producers could do with it. Of course, that trained fans to only expect one certain type of show from Star Trek, and any deviation from the formula has been viewed as largely negative even when competently written and produced.
@sleepeybunney
@sleepeybunney Жыл бұрын
I really liked the first season premise of trying to have a big space adventure but as a civilian. The specific story had its ups & downs of course, but sticking with that overall vibe could have worked well. Instead it comes across like they panicked at the mixed reception & started flailing around. It's like 3 first seasons for different shows getting retooled before they can find their feet.
@woogywips
@woogywips Жыл бұрын
The problem I had with the "Sheer F*cking Hubris" scene was that it only works if Picard is being unreasonable. The season wanted us to, at the same time we see Picard as past his prime and out of touch (as with the classist comments from Raffi), still see him as the same character we've always known and loved. They were too afraid to commit to any one idea and just split the baby the whole time until the third season where they finally committed to being TNG 2.0 and went full fan-service. Surprise surprise, the one season where they had a clear vision for what they wanted to accomplish was by far the one that received the most universal praise.
@TheDrewThornton
@TheDrewThornton Жыл бұрын
One of the cringiest most pretentious moments in the history of television
Жыл бұрын
​@@TheDrewThornton The only good thing about it is the meme potential :)
@shaggyalonso
@shaggyalonso Жыл бұрын
That line wouldn’t have worked in any show, it was that cringe.
@bradkrekelberg8624
@bradkrekelberg8624 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, the only way new Trek knows how to do "exciting" is to put the whole galaxy at risk. It got to a point, especially in Discovery, where you're left asking "Really? Again?". At least in Picard season 3 we were interested in the interpersonal parts of the story too. In the first two seasons, I didn't care for most of the retcons to Picard's background.
@alexbarrett3832
@alexbarrett3832 Жыл бұрын
That would have been amazing. I wish they'd riffed more on Picard's regrets in family and generations about never having had children. That would have set up S3 much better and added depth an nuance to his mentoring of Elnor. I feel too many people dislike Generations, and so that part of Picard was unfairly overlooked. ( I said the same thing when he encountered a cloned son in Nemesis, and they just kept going on about mirrors.)
@michaellewis1545
@michaellewis1545 Жыл бұрын
I understand why some people didn't like the first season, I personally found it interesting since we got to see Picard deal with the fall out of his actions. That is something we didn't really see in TNG since it was always off to the next planet. Where I fell off was in season two where they did the whole time travel that was going back to the well one to many times for me.
@NextWorldVR
@NextWorldVR Жыл бұрын
The fall out of his actions according to woke supertards. The whole d*** thing is disgusting and ridiculous. Everything from Discovery on, every second has just been straight white male bashing. It all comes from a place of extreme weakness.
@robwalsh9843
@robwalsh9843 Жыл бұрын
Honestly, the main idea of a retired Picard going on an adventure or quest with a ragtag crew had a lot of promise. That wasn't a bad concept at all.
@Varitok1
@Varitok1 Жыл бұрын
What actions exactly? Him trying his hardest but Starfleet refusing to help? Not really his actions, he did all he could. It was just a clear vanity project.
@michaellewis1545
@michaellewis1545 Жыл бұрын
@@Varitok1 The whole evacuate Romulans , even if you think he did the right thing. We still explore the good and I'll of that.
@Lia-uf1ir
@Lia-uf1ir Жыл бұрын
I was initially excited that we were going to the 2020s in s2 because it's in this decade that WW3 starts. That could've been used to expand the lore and use it to comment on issues we have right now.
@damenwhelan3236
@damenwhelan3236 Жыл бұрын
You actually put my finger to what it was I couldn't. It seemed too defeated of picard to slink off to his chateau and wait to die. Makes more sense he'd bury his rage in his passion for archaeology and then through this be dragged back to the captains chair.
@cleversonsutil4495
@cleversonsutil4495 Жыл бұрын
I was expecting something new, then I got exactly what you said: Romulan Conspirancy, Time Travel shaningans, BORG Threath, Q's Games! WTF!!!
@rickj.392
@rickj.392 Жыл бұрын
I cant say i enjoyed the first two seasons , the first starting out somewhat well but then becoming a bigger mess with just unnecessary violence and jaded characters just for the sake of grittiness, the second season going into another time travel loop just to sort out Picards childhood drama and hold it as a mystery box sort of thing. As for S3 as great as it was to see the crew back together, i felt they missed the mark completely. The season starts off well, Beverly at the edge of federation space coming across a new menace, finally we are getting new enemies new worlds to explore and discover i thought , but no, just the same shapeshifters from before and the borg from before. The federation infiltration not even making much sense in the end. Might as well have brought back the worms from the first season.
@pelegsap
@pelegsap Жыл бұрын
This is actually a great point. Thank you for this video!
@dyne313
@dyne313 Жыл бұрын
There are so many great things they could have done. Instead, the show existed to milk nostalgia for maximum profit. And one thing that cuts into profits? Paying good writers. It's cheaper to pay bad writers.
@prismpyre7653
@prismpyre7653 Жыл бұрын
season 3 did. Season 1 and 2 very much did NOT do that, and toxic fanboys screamed and cried about it until we got this mess.
@dyne313
@dyne313 Жыл бұрын
@@prismpyre7653 Season's 1 and 2 were just bad. Straight up stinky. People didn't hate those seasons because not enough Nostalgia. They hated them because they were poopy. The entire show however was based on Picard Nostalgia, and cutting costs to make maximum profit was always the goal.
@quantumvideoscz2052
@quantumvideoscz2052 8 ай бұрын
@@prismpyre7653 "toxic fanboys". You mean people who actually cared about quality? Sure...
@suburbansamurai3560
@suburbansamurai3560 Жыл бұрын
Would've loved a Picard archeologist show, although I was under the impression Stewart wanted a story that was a commentary on Brexit? Either way, even though the third season was more of a re-wrap up to TNG post all the movies, I still had a great time watching it. Sure, it was a lot of the same stuff we've seen before, but it felt true to the characters as I remembered them, and provided a new happy ending after all the misery they'd gone through post All Good Things.
@mamba101
@mamba101 11 ай бұрын
You don’t remember them very well because this Picard was nothing like TNG Picard.
@michaelmurley487
@michaelmurley487 Жыл бұрын
I understand what Coleman is saying, but I'm extremely happy that PIC didn't end with a bad taste in my mouth. In addition, it didn't try to redo or rehash an existing storyline from a TOS movie that was a one on one ship to ship battle, or another Khan-type villain (say what you will about Vadic), but the story of season 3 seemed to me to pertain specifically to the TNG characters, and was a big, grand, and coherent (second) ending to the TNG cast. I don't really have a big problem with Nemesis as an ending, regardless of how the show ended, but I don't like where Nemesis left the TNG cast. I may need to watch it again to develop my point of view. Either way, great video essay; I love listening to your stuff, because your effectively the only Trek youtuber that I disagree with often. It allows me to think about your side of the argument and mine a little better.
@sleepinglionarchives
@sleepinglionarchives Жыл бұрын
The show went wrong from its opening scene of Soji and her boyfriend talking to each other with modern slang. It never got better. Season 3 was a blast, though, which shows in the right hands, this entire series could have really been something
@thedudeabides3138
@thedudeabides3138 Жыл бұрын
Superb essay, as always, Rowan, thank you.
@jackdubz4247
@jackdubz4247 Жыл бұрын
I can't call it a mixed bag, Rowan. It was just shite. All three seasons of it. What we got was fundamentally not what Patrick Stewart promised us Picard would be back in 2018. Maybe it's just that, when it comes to Star Trek, I am far too conservative in my tastes. I wanted hope, humanity, and an optimistic vision of the future. Instead what I got was sheer fucking hubris.
@hrothgar014
@hrothgar014 Жыл бұрын
I would have loved Indiana Picard. That would have been perfect. There also wasn’t enough meat to the stories to go ten episodes. Season three was a slog to get through. They watered down an idea that could have been told in two hours to get to ten. Had some good points - the LaForges and Capt Shaw - but the rest was like ‘it’s the Borg. Get on with it already!’
@neesi1570
@neesi1570 Жыл бұрын
The insistence on treating every season of New Trek like a 10-13 hour movie is really hurting it (especially Discovery). SNW is getting by far the best fan response and it's not afraid to tell episodic stories that can stand by themselves; I'm sure that's not a coincidence.
@hrothgar014
@hrothgar014 Жыл бұрын
@@neesi1570 SNW is the best if the new Trek by far for that reason. You can have a season long story arc, but you need to get a story done in one episode too.
@JaimeBabb-s3k
@JaimeBabb-s3k Жыл бұрын
Story arcs have just become an excuse not to have satisfying endings.
@killwalker
@killwalker Жыл бұрын
My problem with STP was two-fold. 1. Dark n Gritty/low lighting everywhere. Doesnt feel optimistic or even "Trek like". (One of my many issues with the STD that is STD) 2. I can very easily imagine a scenario in the Writer's Room where someone asked: "Ok, we got all these ideas, lots of potential for great stories. Which main plots and twists do we want to throw in?" Someone jokingly replied "Let's do ALL OF IT!" And here we are.
@georgelionon9050
@georgelionon9050 Жыл бұрын
Also in S1 they even admitted they wanted it too look&feel like Game of Thrones.. which accounted for so many scenes that just werent necessary. Like the Icheb one, or some of the discussions that were shot as bed scene.. like why in bed? Doesnt feel like ST at all.
@roystonsbailey
@roystonsbailey Жыл бұрын
Klutztrek is hopeless. Picard season 3 was showrun by a different team left alone with little budget which was why we got a semi-decent Star Trek show.
@KayleighBourquin
@KayleighBourquin Жыл бұрын
When Patrick Stewart announced that Picard was returning in a new series, my reaction "Oh god, WHY!?" And that reaction remained fixed throughout all of the three seasons. Why does this show exist? What is the point? What are we exploring here that we haven't already seen before? As it turns out, nothing. It retread old ground with such pointless vigor that it wore a trench right into the deck plating.
@michaeldemarco9950
@michaeldemarco9950 Жыл бұрын
I thought Picard at his vineyard was the perfect (and expected) setup. Then the story started . . .
@stonebaxter
@stonebaxter Жыл бұрын
Personally, I feel what went wrong was that Stewart and others believed the masses wanted a show just about Jean-Luc Picard. Star Trek is an ensemble. While I am not against solo explorations of characters, limiting the entire show (initially) to just one facet of an ensemble is contrary to the storytelling inherent in Star Trek. Multiple viewpoints from multiple characters. I no more want to see a "just Jean-Luc" show than I want to see a "just Kirk show" (or Generations). Same with Spock in STAR TREK 2009. These characters, TNG included, do not work as solo pieces. They have been developed over decades within an ensemble. Some of their very best characteristics are defined by that ensemble nature. What is the point of having "formal Captain Picard" with all of his reserved nuances, if you don't have a Will Riker or a Worf to bounce them off of? What's the point of having "wild bill Kirk" in GENERATIONS, if you don't have Spock there to balance his extremes? They even have to reference Spock in those scene so Kirk can be seen as Kirk taking a reckless chance. Same with Picard. The other choice is to change the character to function as a solo piece. But then, you have changed the point of using a known character at that point. Then why not create a completely new character to tell the stories you want to tell? No one cares about the non-Starfleet adventures of Jean-Luc. That's not Star Trek. Notice it took bringing back the old crew to actually get people invested? There's a reason for that, and it's not because Picard abandoned archaeology, imo.
@ChipsNCellos
@ChipsNCellos Жыл бұрын
I had a dream months ago where Picard went on an archeological mission on the Borg homeworld. Wish we had gotten something like that!
@skdub22
@skdub22 6 ай бұрын
I'm genuinely looking forward to your Universe retrospective, I've really been enjoying these.
@scottleespence752
@scottleespence752 Жыл бұрын
I agree wholeheartedly. I liked the end of season 1, where this group of people, all outcast in some way, seemed ready to travel off and have new adventures. Instead at the beginning of season two, everybody is back in Star Fleet. And don't get me started on all the continuity errors across all 3 seasons.
@gargoylestories
@gargoylestories Жыл бұрын
I'm a hard core Trekkie, but you gave me some information that I didn't know, which is great. I think you should extend this out to one of your prolific longer videos!
@AncestorEmpire1
@AncestorEmpire1 Жыл бұрын
I’m beginning to think that studios make crap come first so the quality of standard is lowered so much that even drying paint can be seen as a masterpiece in the coming sequels.
@PlayNiceFolks
@PlayNiceFolks Жыл бұрын
I haven't watched S3 yet. But I'm fine to settle into some basic nostalgic driven fan service. Whatever. The ending of All Good Things... is profoundly perfect.
@ManOutofTime913
@ManOutofTime913 22 күн бұрын
That's the good thing about S3 is that it takes us right back to All Good Things by the end after Nemesis had such a downer ending and the first two seasons of Picard wallowed in cynicism.
@thomasgrimm1664
@thomasgrimm1664 Жыл бұрын
Love your idea! The archeology plot could have beaten everything we've seen after Indy3.
@Azrael__
@Azrael__ Жыл бұрын
Picard: Season 2, Episode 9 was the first time I've ever felt viscerally angry watching something, the way they kept cutting away from the actual story every other minute to show pointless flashbacks of him as a kid with his mother when it's been obvious what happened to his mother for like 2 episodes already and it isn't even all that interesting of a 'reveal' and had little impact on the plot.
@bensneb360
@bensneb360 Жыл бұрын
Those are some good ideas, I hope you get to make your own sci-fi movie or show some day, you have the creativity and definitely the passion for it
@NextWorldVR
@NextWorldVR Жыл бұрын
Just because someone is 'good' at being critical about others work doesn't mean he is good at actual content creation. I don't know many critics that are also (successful) filmmakers. . .
@RowanJColeman
@RowanJColeman Жыл бұрын
​@@NextWorldVRYou're absolutely right in a general sense, but I was and still am a filmmaker before I was a "critic."
@NemFX
@NemFX Жыл бұрын
You know the part, where they took a look at TNG, and decided 'hey what if we do the opposite' Yeah, that part.
@dennisud
@dennisud Жыл бұрын
You are right in that the Showrunners for whatever reason didn't take the Archeology route and instead had their plan already in their heads before getting Sir Patrick to come on board, yet he did have some sway as well here, BTW, with what you have stated here, what is your view for a future Star Trek: Legacy based in the early 25th Century?
@blaire4115
@blaire4115 Жыл бұрын
It's sad how it all turned out. Even season 3, as nostalgic as it is, turned out to be way too much fanservice, often to the detriment for the plot.
@SergioMartinez-rg6xr
@SergioMartinez-rg6xr Жыл бұрын
Thanks for yet another thought-provoking video. What do you think Star Trek needs to do in order to persevere. What guidelines would you suggest for new Star Trek shows? I would like to hear your opinions on this topic. Thank you for continuing to deliver us great videos. May you live long and prosper!🖖
@georgelionon9050
@georgelionon9050 Жыл бұрын
You didnt ask me, but anyway.. IMO a good understanding of the Roddenberry vision that made the show different. Yes Roddenberry is a bit overhyped and he had his wrongs too, but all new trek IMO didn't understand the basic ideas, ST to work is not a show with a given techno status q (warp/beam etc.) but a show with a social vision. And within this you can do whatever, and I agree might go beyond the classic star fleet and "planet of the week" trope. PS: I'd like for example an "earth 2" like show, a Starfleet ship crash lands on a strange planet.. and the whole show is on that planet, trying to survive on the one hand, discover its secrets on the other and deal with each other.
@kasterborous1701
@kasterborous1701 Жыл бұрын
My brain fully understands and agrees with this argument. However, my heart absolutely loves that my crew and my ship got to fly together one final time in PIC S3.
@Its__Good
@Its__Good Жыл бұрын
One thing that we should all acknowledge is the huge challenge that writers/show runners face when trying to create a new entry in a beloved franchise. I mean, we do tend to remember the good over the bad, as bad as season 2 of Picard was, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as Code of Honor. To be honest, failure is always going to be the most likely outcome. It's like bands trying to recreate the brilliance of earlier albums, you can't force genius, it's just a case of getting the right people with the right ideas at the right time. I think there's a version of Picard season 1 - with better ideas, writing and character development, that works as it is. You don't have to turn the man into Indiana Jones or Tomb Raider.
@startrekmike
@startrekmike Ай бұрын
At least 'Code of Honor' was only forty-five minutes long and not an entire season of a show...
@Mallory-Malkovich
@Mallory-Malkovich Жыл бұрын
I do not understand why people were so into season 3. It made little sense, it was poorly paced, and it didn't tell an interesting story. Maybe "Oops! All Member-Berries" is entertainment to some, but to me it was just a lot of wanking over nostalgia. It was, however, a one thousand percent improvement on season 2.
Жыл бұрын
Simple, the first two seasons were so bad, that the third one looks like a masterpiece in comparison.
@fiktivhistoriker345
@fiktivhistoriker345 Жыл бұрын
When i first heard the news about "Picard" i thought about something like "Picards Angels" or "The PicArd Team". And i really like the idea about Picard as an archeologist. In "Lower Decks" they spoke about him as supporting a seemingly rogue tomb raider for retrieving stolen artifacts. But what have we got? Picards bad dreams. Missing any logic and showing all his traumas. I just would like to see Beverly coming out of the shower, asking "Oh my dear Jean Luc, have you had a bad dream again?" Perhaps like in the old "Little Nemo" comics. Maybe one could cut this show new and give it new dubbing, so we can see real adventure and likable characters?
@colt5189
@colt5189 Жыл бұрын
Dang, I thought Patrick Stewart was in his late 60's when he started Next Gen.
@watchncarry9593
@watchncarry9593 Жыл бұрын
Excellent video as always. Thank you. I have 3 favorite episodes from TNG that showed a different side to Picard: Lessons, Inner Light, and Chain of Comman. Lessons depicts his romantic interests and attractions, Inner Light shows us his portrayal as a husband and father, and Chain of Command reveals a vulnerable yet strong Picard stripped of rank. The new Picard series would have benefited from using those themes as guiding lights to craft their script I think.
@AudiophileTommy
@AudiophileTommy Жыл бұрын
Where Picard went wrong is from the very start when they REFUSED to light the damn set !!! It is dark in space but ships have more than candlelight to see where they are walking !!! Also that first season was a trainwreck in itself !
@TheRadioAteMyTV
@TheRadioAteMyTV Жыл бұрын
I hated that in the Next Gen movies too. From Generations on, I kept asking,who didn't pay the light bill?
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle 9 ай бұрын
They lowered the lighting, because it was more "dynamic". At least that's what they said in regards to the lighting in Generations. I kind of agree with them. That said, when seeing the Enterprise D bridge brightly lit as it almost always was, I lost it. (I mean it made me very happy.)
@edibleapeman
@edibleapeman Жыл бұрын
The concept of Archeologist-Picard is DOA because the showrunners/execs know the population has grown too stupid and vapid for such themes. Hence, pew-pew battles, sword fights, retread of conspiracy plots, etc.
@edibleapeman
@edibleapeman Жыл бұрын
@@marcelo3939 It would be more accurate to say that the people no longer know what they're missing. It's sad.
@DAOzz83
@DAOzz83 7 ай бұрын
I mean, adventure archeologist stories usually have plenty of room for pew-pew battles, sword fights, and conspiracies. You could have had all that AND an overall direction that felt at home in the established Star Trek universe, stayed true to the character of Picard as we knew him, and brought him forward into a new and interesting phase of his life at the same time. Everyone (network execs, the vapid public, and more cerebral fans) could have won. Alas.
@easyesky6646
@easyesky6646 Жыл бұрын
When he turned up with the eye-patch and ascent, I got the idea that Patrick really wanted to be Biggles of Camel Squadron - not Capt. Picard.
@DCMarvelMultiverse
@DCMarvelMultiverse Жыл бұрын
Hmm. The more I think about it then the series would have been something like this: Twenty + years ago, Picard is on Romulus, saving a little boy - Elnor - whose mother has been crushed by a panic. He gets back to Enterprise where he is told by Starfleet Command that if he continues to evacuate Romulus, he will experience court marshall. Enterprise and the other ships - each commanded by a different Next Gen character, continue to evacuate. Picard holds Elnor and refuses. He tells Commander Sela and the other Romulan ships he will ignore Starfleet. The Federation fleet - except for the Next Gen character commanded ones - retreats to fight some enemy elsewhere. Twenty-plus later, Picard is at the chateau being interviewed. Elnor is grown and the two servants are there, too. Picard says during the interview that Starfleet renegged on a lot of promises, not just to Romulus. Afterward, Elnor professes he wants to be in Starfleet, like Picard. He tells Elnor to not, mirroring the issues Picard had with his family. Meanwhile, Captain Raffi escorts Seven and Hugh to an archaeological discovery. There, Rios is a lead archaeologist, a cynical one at that. Turns out the discovery is a primitive Borg Cube. It is ancient and rudimentary. A sub space signal is activated. Picard hears it, giving him nightmares. Starfleet protocol reaches out to any ExB when incomplete Borg data is found somewhere. Picard packs up with Elnor as his assisant and he goes to the dig. Turns out something is answering the signal. It is not a distress signal. It is a report. As the series progresses, we discover that the Borg we have seen so far in Trek were earlier field tests. They were each testing new things to evolve - a queen, a unimatrix zero, etc. to evolve. All data was being sent to the Original Borg planet to evolve the Final Form. More dangerous Borg come for the artifact, which is in Old Romulan space. Picard ventures to the Borg World to destroy the Final Form.
@jediknight131
@jediknight131 Жыл бұрын
The Star Trek :Picard show is like what TNG was in it's first 3 seasons: Star Trek: The Original Series stories trying to be updated for the (then) current 1980's. The creators of Picard wanted the Next Generation love of over 30 years ago, but times have changed, and that era has passed. Picard needed to be a show looking forward, not back. The show needed fully rounded characters, not just the cardboard cutouts with one major trait that we got.
@ComradeMarlow
@ComradeMarlow Жыл бұрын
Been saying for decades they need to make a ST series where starfleet is only a tangental part of the story, possibly even as an obstacle maybe... like, was sorta inagining something similar-ish to what you described for Picard, but then using the cyberpunk-ish city settings. The lives of a transport crew or something, sometimes smuggling and all, even. Or something. But we've all seen how paramount reacts to fan projects anymore lol
@1978rharris
@1978rharris Жыл бұрын
And as soon as you do that the vocal detractors will cry “Firefly” ripoff!!
@hypotheticalaxolotl
@hypotheticalaxolotl Жыл бұрын
I'd love to see a Star Trek series set on an alien vessel. Hell, even a Star Fleet or Federation vessel crewed all by aliens (like that All Vulcan ship on DS9), though I'd prefer one set on a Klingon or Romulan vessel, something *outside* the Federation.
@ComradeMarlow
@ComradeMarlow Жыл бұрын
@1978rharris yeah, I know. First off, similarities and inspirations don't make something a ripoff. Secondly, it wouldn't be a good criticism of what I'm actually imagining and shit. But yeah, no, you aren't wrong at all. Edit: also when I was defending myself from the accusation, it wasn't to you. I understand what you meant--it would be an easy strawman kinda argument should such an idea ever get far enough
@ComradeMarlow
@ComradeMarlow Жыл бұрын
@bearlytamed5553 there could def be room for that kinda thing in what I'm imagining. Like, not every episode... I mean, lol. I haven't written any of it yet, I just know what I'm imagining because I've been considering it since ds9. I saw how fun the ferengi episodes were and many had nothing to do with starfleet. Then as I grew so did the idea and stuff. Idk, maybe I can find some time to at least toss together a concept and rough idea of an episode or something. I did go to school in part for screenwriting, but I doubt the idea is good enough to make it that far. Like, I'm imagining the fan base and producers would be like "lol nope, starfleet is money"
@ComradeMarlow
@ComradeMarlow Жыл бұрын
Also ds9 introduced me to the maquis and why a lot of people have legit issues with the federation and starfleet. That also helped fuel the idea. I'm actually considering maybe writing something now so I don't wanna say toomuch, incase I decide to
@Dave175
@Dave175 Жыл бұрын
Finally, the Picard retrospective episode!
@lenk8374
@lenk8374 Жыл бұрын
The feeling of Picard was completely wrong. There was no longer star trek diction and it was replaced with a very 2020's feel. Nothing like star trek at all
@grey7513
@grey7513 Жыл бұрын
This is what happens in a world where corpo greed rules, and writers are not paid enough. Exemplary writers deserve far more fanfare and recognition.
@nothingness863
@nothingness863 Жыл бұрын
low quality of picard show is for sure not because of the underpaid writers, it's because of talentless writers and producers who fail upwards.
@grey7513
@grey7513 Жыл бұрын
@@nothingness863 You get what you pay for.
@Scottlp2
@Scottlp2 Жыл бұрын
@@grey7513 In 2023 you get (mostly) what the zeitgeist demands. From Dr Who, Star Wars, Marvel, etc. leaving a trail of ruined franchises behind. Fringe was very good character driven SF, showing what those people can do. Picard S3 and ST SNW show what can be done when likable characters, good plots and fan desires are given priority.
@grey7513
@grey7513 Жыл бұрын
@@Scottlp2 SNW was boring. Couldn't even finish it. Some half decent characters desperately seeking a story IMO. Im lucky we have other IPs.
@Scottlp2
@Scottlp2 Жыл бұрын
@@grey7513 SNW has 80% fan approval rating similar to Orville. Are you under 35? Perhaps SNW works less well for younger viewers--it does imitate TOS including TOS like humor.
@phillipleavenworth
@phillipleavenworth Жыл бұрын
I think you are speaking to an issue about modern Trek: the desire to regurgitate safe ideas without risking anything.
@daveharrenburg7670
@daveharrenburg7670 Жыл бұрын
I see Picard S3 moreso as more TNG films rather than more TNG. It's split up into 3 clearly defined arcs that is generally comparable to how a trilogy of movies is laid out. It follows a lot of the things that the best of the TOS movies did as well. TOS had its trilogy of movies and a nice sendoff and I see this as TNG's trilogy of movies with a nice sendoff.
@Tychoxi
@Tychoxi Жыл бұрын
Picard the archaelogist woulda been a perfectly fine concept. I've been especially hoping for a non-starfleet trek series to explore more of the civilian life under the federation (e.g. jake sisko adventurous field journalist with starfleet sometimes showing up to save the day but sometimes being the annoying bureaucrats getting in the way)... but i dont think the current caretakers woulda been able to do anything good with the concept anyway.
@paulpatton5994
@paulpatton5994 Жыл бұрын
My biggest problem with Star Trek Picard is that, in many ways, it undermined Star Trek's utopian, optimistic vision of the future. Twenty fourth century Earth is supposed to be a post-scarcity society where advanced technology and enlightened social policies have eliminated poverty, crime, and war, money is seldom or never used, where the pursuit of wealth is no longer the driving force of our lives, and people work to improve themselves and benefit humanity. The first season portrays Tal Shiar assassins operating--not on the frontier outskirts of the Federation--but on Earth itself. Has Star Fleet become so ineffectual that it can't even defend a core world of the Federation from such alien incursions? Imagine how upset the populace of Earth would be at such an unheard of event. Star Trek Picard didn't. Also in the first season, we see a planet called 'Freecloud' where humans---not Ferengi, but humans-- were living according to free market capitalism. Given an alternative, why would any human choose to live in such a world? Would anybody from our society choose instead to live in service to a feudal lord, growing crops on his estate, turning most of them over to the lord as tribute, and living in grinding poverty? When given an alternative, it's just as unlikely that anybody would choose capitalism over Star Trek's post-scarcity techno-utopia. Worst of all is the portrayal of Picard's mother in the third season. It seems highly likely that the kind of society portrayed on Star Trek would understand neurochemistry well enough to cure schizophrenia. Even if they couldn't, they would surely have a more enlightened way of dealing with the incurably mentally ill than locking them in the basement of Chateau Picard. This seems like something from the nineteenth century. The worst part of Star Trek Picard is its depressing view of Picard's future after the Enterprise. Instead of a swashbuckling archeologist off to new adventures among alien ruins on the Federation frontier (with his wife and companion Beverly Crusher at his side, while their son attends StarFleet Academy back on Earth), he his just a disgruntled hermit hanging out at Chateau Picard. Picard and Crusher didn't get married, and Beverly didn't even tell Jean Luc about his son (and we are supposed to believe that 24th century birth control technology hasn't made unwanted pregnancy a thing of the past). Beverly and her son are just some sort of lawless vigilantes smuggling medical supplies. Then there's Seven of Nine. You'd think that with all the time she spent in the astrometric lab on Voyager, when she got back to Earth she would go on to become one of the Federation's top astronomers, and maybe also, on the side, fulfill Anika Hansen's childhood wish to become a ballerina. Instead, she's just a vigilante fighter. It's a disappointing depressing and distopian future for all of the characters, and that's what ruined it for me.
@cagesound
@cagesound Жыл бұрын
I think both Patrick Stewart and the show's creatives wanted to focus upon current day political and social issues, and even though Star Trek done this type of thing in the past, in seasons 1 and 2 it was so heavy handed, the message the show wanted to send superceded the quality of the script and the screenplay and so the story suffered. It could have been done far more subtly, but I don't think modern tv creatives do subtlety very well. Yes they did throw in the towel and the show was better for it.
@Carabas72
@Carabas72 Жыл бұрын
Star Trek done this type of thing in the past? Really? That's underselling things a bit?. Current day political and social issues has always been Star Trek's bread and butter from day 1. And Trek has never even attempted subtlety. Roddenberry practically invented the Anvilicious trope.
@cagesound
@cagesound Жыл бұрын
@@Carabas72 I agree but in the past it never seemed to get in the way of the story or the characters.
@tardiscommand1812
@tardiscommand1812 Жыл бұрын
The Jean Luc I knew would never have left Star Fleet. Imagine Season 3 Picard pulling those stunts?
@breengreg
@breengreg Жыл бұрын
This was such a great idea. I’ve heard others come up with this too, and it is what they should have done. The new shows, especially Picard and Discovery are also obsessed with end of the universe doomsday plots, that just don’t seem to work well for this universe.
@breengreg
@breengreg Жыл бұрын
And moving away from Starfleet is key. One of the things that bothered me about S3 was everyone joining Starfleet. Seven, Ro, Jack. SF will solve all our problems.
@mattblom3990
@mattblom3990 Жыл бұрын
It's notable how after all the confusion between seasons, Picard Season 3 keeps Raffi and like lightning in a bottle, it's a total home run with Worf.
@BenVaserlan
@BenVaserlan Жыл бұрын
I recall your commitment to publish a Caprica video this month. :)
@xedalpha1
@xedalpha1 Жыл бұрын
It went right when season 3 came round. Seasons 1 felt like an extended Picard TNG episode where he spends most of it separated from the crew. Unfortunately that would have been fine but instead they made half of it about a bunch of characters we didn't come to see or care for barring 7 of 9. Now Season 3 got sh1t back on track.
@XKS99
@XKS99 Жыл бұрын
Stewart was far too old to play a swashbuckling archaeologist by the time this show started production.
@Dreamfox-df6bg
@Dreamfox-df6bg Жыл бұрын
Considering the relics that the Star Trek shows have left behind, from the Doomsday Machine, the Dyson Sphere, the Iconians and so on you'd assume an archaeologist would have more than enough to research and discover. Throw in the real Guardian of Forever to explore history by recording images from the Guardian to going there and then (many such voyages possible) if necessary.
@admiralpercy
@admiralpercy Жыл бұрын
as soon as we learned that nobody from the Enterprise crew tried to save riker and Troy's child after they banned cybernetics, I knew I was going to have to treat the entire thing like some sort of fanfiction
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle
@RandomUnassignedYTHandle 9 ай бұрын
Thank you, Rowan. Love your channel. As much as I hated the ending of "The Chase", which just seemed so lame, your idea that Picard should have focused on his interest in archeology would have been awesome to see on the screen. As it was, I enjoyed the first two seasons though they could have been better, but loved the 3rd season. As great as "All Good Things" was, I feared the last two movies had left one of my favorite shows of all time a little bit tainted. And was overjoyed that they got another go at it.
@rmeddy
@rmeddy Жыл бұрын
Yeah I wanted either Picard as Ambassador and/or Archaeologist A tweaked version of Season 1 that really leaned on these conceits would've worked for me, where I would dial back the Soong stuff and Zhat Vash robot stuff (which through a comedy of errors reasons you bring back in Vash) and dial back the Ex borg stuff More Laris and Rios, less Elnor and Rafi, Jurati and Vash is there for plot device reasons, Seven would be more incidental tied to the Ex Borg stuff. The plot is the Zhat Vash are a bunch old hardliners and separatists who are convinced that the destruction of the Romulan sun was an intentional attack by Starfleet and Vulcans and they're hell bent on sabotaging and undermining any and all attempts at Unifinication,maybe get back Sela for that The big callback would be finishing Spock's work with respect to Unification and also the solving the mystery as to what happened to Ambassador Spock. Picard strengths as a diplomat and as a archaelogist is focused on for this as throughline with Picard's history.
@lilkris3008
@lilkris3008 Жыл бұрын
You make great points but I feel like classic trek and it’s tropes are what we wanted this whole time. Well lit sets with clunky submarine style battles just look at SNW it’s the biggest trek since Voyager simply because it put likeable characters on the enterprise and took them on adventures the end start again next week. I hope legacy gets green lit and SNW continues having a tos era show and a post nemesis era show being made at the same time would be a dream come true all that’s left is some “NX-1701” in the ENT timeline and we have the trifecta lol
@cliftonixs
@cliftonixs Жыл бұрын
I remember the big bag guy reveal near the end of season 3 and I'm like, oh not again..
@roggaregg1480
@roggaregg1480 Жыл бұрын
Just revisited TNG s01 e04, isn't that something to abolish the whole concept for?
@simmyjester
@simmyjester Жыл бұрын
I didn't know about Patrick Stewart insisting on Picard not being in Starfleet. That would have been great, especially if it didn't bother with the whole retconned son Gary Stu thing. I'm realizing now that what I really want is a Star Trek show about civilians. The staff of a restaurant at a busy starbase, or more of the Fenris Rangers-adjacent stuff that Dr. Crusher and Gary Stu were doing, getting supplies to places Starfleet didn't go (reminds me of modern day anarchist mutual aid), or the crew of a passenger liner, or SOMETHING. One of the few things that I genuinely loved about Picard was the scene in the first episode that featured a civilian urban apartment. I want to see how the rest of the Star Trek universe lives!
@harccus
@harccus Жыл бұрын
what gets me, and I admit I might have missed something, what happened with the Borg between season 2 and season 3? The way it ended its llike seasone 2 ending never happened.
@Maddest_Martigan
@Maddest_Martigan Жыл бұрын
Insightful as always
@MisterTee
@MisterTee Жыл бұрын
My thoughts on the seasons: S1: Terrible S2: Absolutely horrendous S3: Excellent
@rossrreyes
@rossrreyes Жыл бұрын
The second there was a extra super secret Tal Shiar even more secret than the Tal Shiar itself, I rolled my eyes thinking is this the best they could do ??
@sideshowkazstuff3867
@sideshowkazstuff3867 Жыл бұрын
Damn your so right! Now if they had the first season and then slowly went your way to the third season I think it would have worked.
@wongjefx980
@wongjefx980 Жыл бұрын
Very valid points, and yep...if the direction went the way presentef, it might have been way better. Writers do the same with Doctor Who...have to bring back old enemies and similar stories because it's lack of creativity, trying to cast the character in a new light, and messing it up, aka the Skywalker debacle, and throwing away canon and fan goodwill.
@ydna
@ydna Жыл бұрын
the first two seasons started with some interesting writing but then devolved into such utter nonsense. Although in retrospect I really like the new chaotic neutral Borg at the end of s02. It's a drastic change that could lead to interesting things in future shows. I fear they'll abandon it though, since the rest of that season was forfeit.
@prismpyre7653
@prismpyre7653 Жыл бұрын
neither chaotic nor neutral... and they aren't even the only group of Borg out there in the alpha and beta canon that aren't authoritarian jerks which just raises the question of where the hell THEY all were during season 3? Surely they could have detected this plot... but it's like Terry sat down to write season 3 withotu even having read season 2 yet or something
@ydna
@ydna Жыл бұрын
@@prismpyre7653 yeah seems obvious he just chose to ignore it and anything else from the previous seasons. I mean, it was probably a safer choice given the general positive reception of s03, and perhaps the Borg are too overpowered anyway, so I guess we'll see if they can do anything different in the future.
@kevinsmarts9953
@kevinsmarts9953 Жыл бұрын
I really thought you were going to say things that certain other people have said that would have me saying, but, but, this or that. Instead you are right again as always. I personally enjoyed all 3 seasons but totally understand why they are not for everyone and why 3 was so much more popular. I hope they don't make another but would not be upset with a "Legacy" series on the re-branded Titan, captain Seven has the swagger of Kirk and an off and on relationship with her Number one would be a dynamic we've not had before. Plus Raffi with her struggles with addiction and Jack with his messed up life, its just not the Star Trek ubermensch crew we got with Voyager. Speaking of which the potential for past Voyager and even DS9 crew to show up gives it easy fan service and viewer boosting potential. At this point it would be stupid not to make it.
@altonbunnjr
@altonbunnjr Жыл бұрын
I really like your take on it; it would have been an interesting way to go. Unfortunately the play it safe attitude that started with Rick Berman carried over to the current show runners with the added “bonus” of really terrible writing and story telling. They had a chance to start anew and instead we get retreads of stories, characters and plot elements from years ago not to mention Discovery and Strange New Worlds rewriting TOS history. Despite that I really liked Picard season three but yes it and the other shows could have been so much more.
@JRMilward
@JRMilward Жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Your analyses are always on point 👍👍👍
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