Where Will The Bakerloo Extension Go To?

The Bakerloo line is set to be extended south from Elephant & Castle to... where, exactly? We dispatched Geoff on a mission to find the sites where the new tube stations will be - and to explain how the line will connect up with existing stations on London's rail network.

[@DavidWood2]

It is great to see Geoff on a Londonist video again.

[@GryphLane]

I came here to say the same thing 🙂

[@williamg209two]

I didnt even realise at first

[@marthaanderson2656]

If Geoff is going to be a regular again, I might resubscribe

[@Eurobrasil550]

Same thought crossed my mind recently.

[@dtdan5529]

This is how I found Geoff, and glad I did

[@TheSniper9752]

'The next station is Burgess Park, Exit here for Burgess park.'

[@poteyatocheapp6978]

Do they do that for Regent's Park? 😂

[@KarimElhoussami]

@@poteyatocheapp6978 They usually say "exit here for ZSL or London Zoo or something on that station"

[@poteyatocheapp6978]

@@KarimElhoussami oof ok

[@deliaz8626]

this is Lewisham exit here docklands light railways

[@blueberrysavers3547]

I think it's pretty obvious

[@hairyairey]

I agree Burgess Park would be a great name - before parkrun I didn't even realise it even existed. Definitely one of my favourites too.

[@Dave_Sisson]

Nah, don't call it that. A couple of decades ago a kid called Burgess was nasty to me at school and I don't want to be reminded of him.

[@harry.dwyer16]

Dave Sisson how would the Tube architects know that tho?

[@hairyairey]

@@harry.dwyer16 How would the Tube architects know what?

[@chriswilkes236]

@@Dave_Sisson Good one.

[@harry.dwyer16]

John Airey know that he was bullied by some called Burgess

[@ChilternTransportProductions]

Nice to see Geoff back on Londonist! It’s boring without him! Also, I’ve seen Burgess Park mentioned as the name for one of the 2 tube stations with undecided names on TfL plans, so I reckon they’ll use that

[@volvotrident4835]

You are here too.

[@ChilternTransportProductions]

Yes, I’ve been watching these videos for years - longer than this channel has existed!

[@PeterGrant]

I think I recall* TfL have a policy against naming new stations from local road names, so Burgess Park is reasonable, and I suspect Old Kent Road might get an exception for being very widely known. *based on their response to suggested names on the proposed Watford Met. line extension

[@ChilternTransportProductions]

Well here’s the thing. If “Old Kent Road 2” doesn’t eventually become Old Kent Road, what other names could it take on? I think Burgess Park for “Old Kent Road 1” would be very good. A very good geographical defining point!

[@francoiss6911]

That will be a great thing to see, much better service for south London.

[@hotelmario510]

I'm gonna take my Tube to the Old Kent Road I'm gonna ride 'til I can't no more

[@nathanw9770]

I got the Tesco in the back

[@owenbraun3390]

hotelmario510 that’s y I watched this vid

[@TheWolfHowling]

I knew someone was going to do this

[@jojoray]

Someguy | Burgess Park attached

[@deanashraf12]

I'm gonna ride to the big Tesco

[@R.a.t.t.y]

Always good for tourism to put monopoly places onto the tube map. Who wouldn't want to "go back to Old Kent Road", do not pass a cashpoint, do not withdraw £200

[@JontyLevine]

Then they'd be able to say you can take the Tube all the way from Old Kent Road to Mayfair. Would be better yet if they built or renamed a Mayfair station on the Piccadilly line, or perhaps Crossrail, since that's almost the right colour.

[@R.a.t.t.y]

Jonty Levine that's the easy bit. Now try to find some Free Parking in London!

[@hannecatton2179]

Highly unlikely that cash will exist in 10 years so you won´t be able to withdraw £200.

[@ekvedrek]

@@hannecatton2179 ok Mr acid trip

[@dantc2403]

I'm in favor of Tesco's, Toys R Us, New New Cross Gate, and Matalan Stations.

[@Kraftwerker1]

Agreed on almost all, but let's make it Sainsbury's Petrol Station Station

[@claudettestewart3711]

I live in Lewisham Borough & there's a series of consultation events to take place. I'm all in favour of this much needed extension.

[@ChilternTransportProductions]

Toys r Us can’t be used anymore because it’s now a Lidl

[@Sophiebryson510]

Don’t you mean NEWER cross gate?

[@alli_the_fruity_frog]

​@@claudettestewart3711 same! The transport is quite bad compared to the rest of London.

[@Mullac]

Shoppers: How many shops do you want to demolish on the extension?!? TfL: Yes

[@98dizzard]

Yes, those retail parks are very important for many people. They'll just level them and stick up more flats.

[@danielchin4421]

Yes indeed.

[@nathanw9770]

They won't destroy the Tesco it's too big and beneficial to the local area.

[@peterashcroft8058]

@@98dizzard shops can be accommodated within new development if thought through. I use that tesco and the b&q thst is soon to be redeveloped. They both could be included if developers / council really wanted.

[@dx_ream9277]

Someguy Tesco forever!

[@SomeBritishGal1]

I think that South London needs more TfL connections. The Bakerloo Line to Hayes would be great but I would also like the Victoria Line to extend to Crystal Palace via Dulwich and for the London Overground to take over some of the Southern and Thameslink routes (e.g. the Sutton & Wimbledon loop).

[@Andre-rt5hg]

as someone who lives in dulwich/crystal palace its something i dream of every day... no more southeastern to victoria or bus to brixton PLEASE!

[@PinkThorn242]

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

[@FrancescoBellringer]

Finally a proper Londonist video with Geoff

[@joermnyc]

That’s the one good thing about the New York Subway, usually no need to buy up properties and knock them down for the station buildings, just cut a few holes in the sidewalk for the staircases/escalators and at least one elevator (lift) since the actual stationhouse where you can buy tickets and swipe (tap is coming soon) is all underground. I do understand that in London the sidewalks are narrower so having a staircase taking over 90% of the walking space would be rather silly, but we also do have some stairways that sit just inside of a building (the MTA will buy a small part of a building for this... the 2nd Avenue subway also has ventilation buildings that do take over real estate nearby, but that’s not new. There is a strange looking townhouse in downtown Brooklyn where the windows are blacked out, because it’s an old vent and emergency exit for the 4 train. Today that building would be worth millions of dollars, but it’s original to the first parts of the IRT entering Brooklyn from the city.

[@davidjamessussex1671]

I really do love this guy. He’s a total train/ tube geek and makes you feel like you’re a bit of a train/ tube geek!

[@ninjagoggles]

Bakerloo all the way to Elmer's End!? I'll never take the 🚎🚎🚎 again!!! 😆

[@JoshNunnyt]

@Ng John Same thing.

[@Meow_Zedong_1949]

Little fact: If the Bakerloo line got extended to Hayes, it would become the most southernly line on the tube as Hayes lies further south than Morden.

[@Mickman007]

A stop at Burgess park would be marvellous.

[@sadface]

It's up to us to make sure they call it Burgess Park.

[@alexmckenna1171]

They've gone very quiet about this extension lately.. I hope it doesn't get dropped again, but I fear it will.

[@rahimjoseph211]

Alex McKenna I don’t think so, they are updating the BLE consultation page as we speak it’s no longer available to view so they must be doing something with it. Last week it was open to read.

[@unknowndomain]

Presumably Crossrail money woes?

[@fetchstixRHD]

There's a new consultation on Monday: consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension/

[@malcolmbacchus421]

Not at all, we had an early presentation of consultation material at a meeting at New Cross Gate last Monday and the 2nd stage consultation starts next week through end December.

[@marcoalmeida6563]

I saw leaflets being handed out in catford last week

[@timjohnson689]

Another fascinating and well-researched video, Geoff. Thanks.

[@chriswilkes236]

Love to see your videos, Geoff. Also exciting to see London investing in infrastructure, something we've given up on in the U.S. as we sink slowly into disrepair.

[@Fluteboy]

1:02 - Is there a more depressing sight than the E&C shopping centre? It really is a toilet.

[@its-eric]

If you ever go to Norwich, Anglia square is somehow worse

[@ElshadKarbasi]

Agree. It feels like an 80s time machine.

[@Nickle314]

Apparently earmarked for demolition. Since its was the first, the government can put the boot in and list it.

[@Oodelally]

Elshad Roy’s is a chain of shops mainly in Norfolk and Suffolk that is also an 80s time machine

[@dubbaddare]

Elephant and Castle, Stick it up your Arsehole !

[@darthflorist3126]

Many years ago, I saw a diagram of an extension to the Bakerloo that went south-eastwards that included a station at BRICKLAYERS ARMS, with a view to connecting onto the line going to Peckham Rye.

[@JagerLange]

I haven't been down Old Kent Road or to New Cross for about ten years - and yet I recognise so much from this video...

[@janehigh5279]

I had no idea about the proposed Baker loo line extension. Please keep your excellent videos coming.

[@brad4057]

Thanks for the video Geoff have you ever considered making a video about the disused railways in south east London there was loads in the woolwich arsenal and Greenwich peninsula

[@valvlog4665]

Excellent report. Thanks

[@TheDaf95xf]

Hi Geoff. Always top railway information 👍🏻

[@kbtred51]

Fame! Back on the channel - glad to see the team reunited.

[@benhewitt9518]

I just looked on wikipedia, and i love that the proposal now says burgess park for the station name!

[@LorailPedraTrainPassion]

Great video. I'm excited to see the Bakerloo line extension as soon as possible (if only it will be built)

[@mseven1361]

I remember going to the Sainsbury's in New Cross and it said there were plans to extend the station and Sainsbury's will have to relocate and they had a suggested alternative by Sainsbury's. The Sainsburys in New Cross and the Underground station we're built on the land previously owned by the national rail station. Like with many train stations they sold part of their land to a supermarket and retail park because the railways no longer had to store coal at every station and cargo was handled by lorries instead of the railways so many train stations had part of their land sold to retail parks and supermarkets.

[@peteregan3862]

Great job of siting new stations Geoff.

[@DavidShepheard]

He was just looking at this: consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tube/bakerloo-extension-2017/ It's got the proposed sites all there.

[@Dovietail]

In Washington DC, everyone LOVED a METRO stop with a big grocery nearby. Groceries are hard to find in big cities!

[@divarachelenvy]

love your style matey

[@altvctr]

As someone who formerly lived on Burgess Rd., Burgess Park is a great name!

[@pieswick]

Southeastern is a mess down to hayes it’d be great to have it to there

[@HSMiyamoto]

"Burgess Park... Old Kent Road... New Cross Gate...MORNINGTON CRESCENT!!"

[@PokhrajRoy.]

So excited to see Geoff!

[@princesspinkblue]

As someone who lives in Bromley, im excited! 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@joshuahalla.k.a.controlla6333]

Great video. ☺️

[@lucinum9012]

Cool! Great to see the underground in southeast.

[@Alex__Butcher]

watch this be their most viewed video in a while. Purely because of Geoff!

[@fetchstixRHD]

Ah yeah, I remember watching a route learning video of those tunnels not too long ago (that Soi Buakhao posted), I was thinking of the extension! Some time ago they had a questionnaire about the extension but I haven't seen much until now. I see they have another consultation opening on the 14th...

[@Dixavd]

I lived near Elephant & Castle for 2 years at University and never knew Burgess Park existed. They should definitely name a new station after it to make it more visible.

[@abbottone]

None of this would interest me unless it was put together in a nice youtube video - thankyou

[@brianburgess2106]

As someone who lived 'under' Burgess Park, at 94 Neate Street, I concur with the station name!! and yes, my surname is Burgess

[@wulla2]

Thanks for a very informative and accurate video. Just a couple of thoughts. First, you don’t mention the possibility of a station at the Bricklayers Arms roundabout, where the OKR actually starts. There’s been an active campaign for this. The gap between Elephant & Castle and OKR 1 is in fact unusually long - a problem which is masked by the inaccurate placing of Elephant and Castle on the TfL illustrative map (it should be further west). Second, on naming, I agree that Burgess Park would be an excellent choice for OKR 1. But Old Kent Road is unhelpful as a name for OKR 2, given that the road is so long (shades of Edgware Rd...). I wonder about North Peckham as a name - the location is very close to the former North Peckham Civic Centre on the corner of Peckham Park Rd. It sports a beautiful ceramic mural about the Old Kent Road’s history.

[@stevena3244]

They should extend the Baker loo line to Istanbul so that Harrow can be the beginning of the Orient Express.

[@SormonAusPol]

Am I missing a joke or something here?

[@danielchin4421]

Well, until a Murder comes along

[@customtransport2777]

😂😂😂😂

[@LiftFan]

The orient express, brought to you by small trains from 1972

[@hanskniezand2049]

But what zone would Istanbul be in?

[@MouseFloof]

Gonna take my train down the Old Kent Road, I'm gonna ride it 'til I can't no more :P

[@jeiuanne331]

Mouse-Floof i knew someone would do it

[@michaelgamble296]

Agreed. Burgess Park (looks very pleasant) and Old Kent Road.

[@Eternity3726]

As of August,5th 2021 Elephant & Castle station is Bakerloo line terminus for *115 Y E A R S*

[@johnstilljohn3181]

Looking forward to that...!

[@Beastlysimmer_uk]

The earliest it will open will be 2030 but it will be delayed due to engineering works

[@stephenmatura1086]

@@fantasticfox175 I doubt it. All major projects go over budget and over schedule. I would estimate 2040 - anything earlier would then be a bonus.

[@linjane2210]

In China it only takes about 1 year. In here no.....

[@bluemountain4181]

Don't worry, there will be a replacement bus service

[@user-du5ig6lg6k]

@@linjane2210 trueeeee China only used like 2 or 3 years to build a 60km tube line with entirely underground

[@Eurobrasil550]

Intresting video, a thought, obviously as explained far from certain what may transpire in the future, but suppose that the Bakerloo Line did actually expand to the maximum possible as described, would it then perhaps not be possible for a 'Tube Challenge' as the whole system could not be covered during one days service. Off course possiblly there could be more all night services by then, so might still be possible if starting in the very early hours?

[@lawrencelewis8105]

I understand that OKR and Peckham Park Road is under consideration for a tube stop though it is fairly close to Burgess Park.

[@lndnflms484]

Great video

[@jorgedasilva2054]

Apparently according to TfL the existing route from just south east of Lambeth North run down St George's Road through the middle of Elephant and Castle station at a new combined station (closure of the two existing entrances) then along New Kent Road. Meaning the existing Bakerloo line route from Lambeth North to Elephant Castle Route via St George's Circus will close.

[@2000guineas]

Yes Geoff back this show needs Geoff

[@harleancarpenter8043]

Whatever next, the Central line extended back to Ongar, lol? Nice investigative work, Geoff

[@italnational]

Excellent

[@patrickstetter5534]

Yay, Geoff's back!

[@motogpwin]

Hayes evoked wild memories !

[@Ron_TTE]

2:43 that feels like a geoff video

[@ShikiKiryu]

Ah man dont call Toys R Us old that makes me feel old xD Interesting vid as always tho Geoff ^-^

[@hairyairey]

Blues Brothers...

[@U_C_G]

All tube stations (Except one: Arsenal) are named after a real London place, so a toy reference is unlikely, despite being fun!

[@yeahnoway111]

I guess he meant that its abandoned since Toys r us filed for bankruptcy in 2017

[@hairyairey]

@@U_C_G well Woolwich Arsenal is an actual place, it's just not in Highbury & Islington!

[@TIMBOWERMAN]

John Airey not Woolwich Arsenal but Arsenal. I went there to see someone in Gillespie Road which is probably a previous name for that station as there was that name in the old tiling, pity it is probably hacked out by now during a renovation.

[@aethanblake1856]

Though with crossrail delays and all of that surely it would be the same with the bakerloo construction due to new tunnels?

[@vincentkohlumcfan22]

lol I love the voiceover at the end

[@thephoenix3155]

This is exciting!

[@ewaz6826]

You should do the DLR extension to Dagenham Docks. Stopping at Beckton riverside ( Newham ) , Creekmouth ( Barking and Dagenham) , Barking Riverside ( Barking and Dagenham) ,Goresbrook ( Barking and Dagenham) and Dagenham Docks (Barking and Dagenham.) Please.

[@reptongeek]

When you said 2030 for completion, I was glad because I had this glimmer of an idea to do Tube Challenge in 2021. Not to get the record though just to do it

[@JJGreviews]

I live by Stonebridge Park station and work very near to where the 'Old Kent Road' station could be. This would be absolutely perfect!

[@ellenkingsley]

I think they should extend the Bakerloo Line back to Watford Junction

[@Smart1529]

Overground already covers it

[@hairyairey]

@@Smart1529 The Bakerloo line currently gets in the way of the overground.

[@wclifton968gameplaystutorials]

if they extend the Bakerloo Line to Watford Junction then the Overground line going there from Euston would be made redundant and would subsequently withdrawn without replacement and thats all because TfL hate overlapping services when it draws people away from using one service like when TfL cut back some bus lines to Beckenham Junction when the Croydon Tramlink opened in 2000.

[@hairyairey]

@@wclifton968gameplaystutorials Interesting point because the overlap is only back as far as Queens Park and Bakerloo line services are already turned around there. However at Queens Park they have their own platforms (from memory). Whereas at Harrow & Wealdstone overground trains are held back by the Bakerloo line. There's an argument for closing the Bakerloo line in its entirety in the tunnels and widening them for larger trains.

[@metropod]

Why not extend the overground, say... build a fly over/fly under and take over the St Albans Abbey Branch?

[@MTRfundamentalist]

Bromley will have tube stations in Bromley, in the stations beyond New Beckenham.

[@1258-Eckhart]

It would be good to know that this extension could follow on seamlessly from the Northern Line extension with the same project teams and planning capacities. Building up such teams is cost and risk, why do that when the guys are already there?

[@freeman10000]

I vote for Albany Road Station. Anything with the word "Burgess" brings back troubling memories and here in sunny Perth, Western Australia, I live near the Albany Highway.

[@trippytrains6289]

Hey, I'm a sucker for future transport projects, and I love this idea despite that I don't live in London nor the UK. But as someone that some years ago had to take that line daily for a week, here's a wild thought: Why they don't just focus in buying some decent trains that aren't rotten as those that are still running today? Nothing fancy like what TfL had in mind years ago and never ordered, just some new decent trains. I can't believe that in six years time they progressed so much with Crossrail but haven't been able to buy some trains, they had plenty of time. This is not like those regional lines that have Pacers (where I live we have a similar problem) but one of the most important subway lines. I can imagine the frustration that daily Bakerloo commuters must feel.

[@hesterclapp9717]

1:40 On the topic of Monopoly and the London Underground, you can get a tube Monopoly set with all the properties being tube stations and their colours even correspond to tube lines that serve them

[@englishruraldoggynerd]

But that’s leaving Dulwich extremely badly served for connectivity.... you either have the hell of buses to Lewisham, Brixton or Oval or overground trains from East Dulwich or Forest Hill.... again buses. That’s Brixton right over to New X Gate with no easy underground link. I think Camberwell linking Kings College Hospital to the centre would be the most beneficial to the area. That balances 1/3 Peckham within 12 minutes walking, plus the large estates around plus the bus routes which are hell in rush hour.

[@fredred4264]

Denmark Hill serves Kings College Hospital and is as well connected as New Cross Gate, for example.

[@hikaru-live]

Ther is a saying that National Rail want to give Hayes Line entirely to Bakerloo, which means Bakerloo can take over existing National Rail platforms for Hayes Line at New Cross Gate and Lewisham entirely, if they want to cut costs.

[@AndrewG1989]

I do like how he names these new stations.

[@jeanjacques9980]

I thought that the train service on Hayes line is reasonable and high capacity compared to small tube trains. Not sure but I think there might be difficulties running tube trains and SE trains on same line due to platform height. Why can’t the tube service at New Cross Gate and Lewisham be built under the existing stations and have one improved larger integrated station? Bakerloo trains are much more comfortable that new tube and overground trains, the seats are really well sprung in comparison to the MacDonald type seats on new trains.

[@DavidShepheard]

Integrated stations would make a lot more sense. The access shafts down to the Bakerloo Line probably need to be next to the station, to make construction disruption have less impact on National Rail but if they can build tunnels undeneath all of the National Rail platforms at both stations and have lifts and stairs that go down to the Bakerloo Line interchange level, that would give you an intergrated station that bolts onto the side.

[@BirbarianHomeGuard]

YES! A Geoff Londonist vid!

[@Redf322]

If you look from Camberwell down Camberwell new rd there is a bus garage on the left with a big sign that looks like a tube roundel sign. The rumour always was that it was the intended station.

[@jacklong1844]

It’s somewhat weird seeing you in my area

[@willplayfoot]

Exactly - me too! I would want to meet up with him if I know l knew

[@markmansfield8805]

I think he's from southwark

[@willplayfoot]

@@markmansfield8805 What Geoff

[@markmansfield8805]

@@willplayfoot Yeah I believe, living in Orpington/Bromley atm sure he mentioned it in All The Stations

[@jvc7777]

He lives in west london

[@donsharpe5786]

Geoff, I can't get enthusiastic about this. You can get by rail from Peckham Rye to Elephant and Castle by overground. In North Cornwall we do not have a railway. We used to have one but it was closed in 1966. There is no railway between Bere Alston and Okehampton (there used to be) and we cannot get finance to re-introduce a railway even to Tavistock. We are a poor relation as far as railway investment is concerned. How about doing one on the Devon circular line using the existing Exeter to Plymouth then re-opening the line through Tavistock to Okehampton and back to Exeter. or even run through trains from Waterloo to Plymouth vie Exeter Okehampton and Tavistock.

[@matthewpatrick4223]

I was expecting the extension to go through Camberwell and Dulwich and end at Crystal Palace. It seems like that is a neglected area of London for tube transport.

[@tobyfarman]

Indeed neglected by tube, but not by national rail. On the other hand, old kent Road is neglected by both

[@nathanw9770]

Another name that they could call Old Kent Road 2 would be Brimmington Park as the park itself is a short walk down the road. It's also quite a nice park but smaller (and probably much quieter) than Burgess Park. So if tfl call it Brimmington Park I reckon it would attract some tourists to the area as they'll see not one but TWO park stations next to each other. They could also stick down a station at St. John's while they're at it but I doubt if they will as the national rail station is fairly underused despite being next to Lewisham.

[@AnthonyFrancisJones]

Your Rode mic seemed to give better sound than the radio mic you have here - no worries - great video regardless!

[@luk3c1ary]

1:10 yeah im gonna take a walk down the old kent road......

[@ctra1ns]

How can Hayes be in the west and east in the same time? I live near Hayes and I live in north-west London. Is there like 2 Hayes stations?

[@paulanderson7796]

There's Hayes, London Borough of Hillingdon, NW London and there's Hayes, London Borough of Bromley, SE London. I know 'your' Hayes very well indeed.

[@ctra1ns]

@@paulanderson7796 I moved houses

[@moonshapedabsolution]

The station on the Toys R Us should be named with a toy reference, Hornby maybe?

[@deancommissioning]

Cabbage Patch?

[@EuanBCFC]

deancommissioning LEGO Friends

[@ianmoseley9910]

Barbie World?

[@paulqueripel3493]

Ten years? They'll have to buy the bit they want soon before a developer builds flats on it.

[@vinniesuperstar8923]

Monopoly, obvs!

[@cloudojo6373]

My favourite line

[@Ringer_Fran]

Let's be honest, Bromley NEEDS a tube station, it's taking the pressure off trams and national rail, and plenty of people would use it - much more useful in a sense than some of the Bucks and Herts stations.

[@bullah666]

2:10 Instead of demolishing it, they could always connect the supermarket and the station together (which also might need a slight wall demolition).

[@mitchellgiffard1978]

That would be the best ideal route for the bakerloo line running via Kent road it's shame it was not built years ago would of been very handy.

[@N00N01]

Watford with a potention branch to Euston or a troughbranch from euston to watford If from the north end

[@paxundpeace9970]

Germany - Bielefeld - Line 3 Station Nordpark

[@TrainsVision26]

Quick question: will this extension be above ground or in the tunnels?

[@SaturnCanuck]

Brilliant

[@hissingsid3907]

I just came across this video and thought it was a new one until I saw the petrol prices!!!