Where Would American Leagues Fall in the English Football Pyramid?

[@mw7851]

As a German I would love to see the US implement a proper league system for football. That would generate an immense number of new quality players and probably also new tactics innovations.

[@palolv2220]

The relegation systems used outside the US are interesting but they do have one huge problem and that is in almost all of these leagues only 3-5 teams ever have a real shot at the title. A fixed league structure with a hard salary cap and strong revenue sharing between the owners is the best thing you can do to have sports league with parity and good competition throughout the league.

[@mw7851]

@@palolv2220 it depends a bit on each country. But I agree with you when it comes to the 1st league. Everything below 1st league is a lot more competitive though. It's a trade off in the end. I guess for fans in Europe what we appreciate about the league system is that while a smaller club might never win the top league, at least they are not completely cut out from the opportunity. It's also an incredible feeling and basically the equivalent to a Championship title if your local club has a great decade or two and manages to actually get into the top tier. Look at Union Berlin for example. They only played 2nd German league for more than 20 years and have just recently been promoted to the 1st and are now competing for a Champions League spot. There are these moments every once in a while where the underdog does win (like Leicester in the UK winning the EPL in their first season after promotion). That for me makes it worth it. The advantage some of the top teams have in our leagues could be neutralized if the right people really wanted to do so. But of course the league is run a little bit like a free market system with a government who gets lobbied very hard by the big corporations. They national leagues' deciders are terribly afraid of shrinking a national top team brand which they think would damage to national top league popularity. So they rather help them staying competitive amongst other european giants and shield them from any national opportunity redistribution ideas.

[@michaelmeyer2725]

Also, the way franchises work in the US, you own a team that's in MLS. You're buying into that league. I spend $250m for a MLS team, as an owner I don't want to get pushed into the 2nd tier. That said, I also wish the US would adopt the league system with relegation and promotion. I'd like to see MLB (Major League Baseball) do it as well, but it'll never happen.

[@shisui-ft6te]

the us is big asl so the travel expenses would put clubs in the lower tiers in debt

[@jimsanderson4180]

I’m not confident that a promotion and relegation system would ever work in North America. The economics don’t makes sense. i’ll give you an example, the Vancouver whitecaps get almost all of the revenue from ticket sales, and they get about 20,000 people per game. The next league down from MLS is the Canadian premier league and the Vancouver team gets about 3000 people per game. Again almost all the revenue comes from ticket sales. So you can see that if the Vancouver whitecaps were relegated they would have to cut their budget by 85% this would lead to the effect of teams being promoted would never be able to compete with the salaries of MLS teams so they would be immediately relegated the next year. That one year that they spent in the MLS would lead to many lopsided losses, potentially destroying the reputation and Fanbase of the team.

[@KevsShwaShwa]

For American footy to improve there has to be better grassroots. Every Sunday league should be registered in the grand scheme. We need an fa cup style. It’s a simple idea but who wouldn’t love the idea of an MLS side coming to their local park. We 100% need it.

[@prowlingthepeachstate4482]

In theory the US Open Cup does all that

[@guillermogutierrez-santana4446]

Won’t matter so long as travel soccer clubs and colleges keep making a circus out of youth soccer. For there to be an actual chance, US Soccer needs to divert huge funds and resources to AYSO.

[@prowlingthepeachstate4482]

@@guillermogutierrez-santana4446 I can certainly agree with that too.

[@GlassJoe1337]

I wonder if removing the salary caps from the American leagues would help strengthen the US soccer clubs.

[@edwingonzalez3703]

Oklahoma university. Oklahoma state university. Join forces to keep A MLS franchise to open in Oklahoma. Wit the argument that that would take away revenue from the college football games so the State denied a franchise to come to Oklahoma.

[@mediaeasieruk]

Football in England has changed drastically over the last 25 years. Players at Premier League-level in the 1990s is now commonplace at non-league level! The quality of players across all divisions today is remarkable.

[@Asshat237]

Better coaching and giving up the old English long ball style? I've only been a big fan for two years so I'm not an expert, but I feel good about my guess. Am I close??

[@Butcho22]

Well yeah but that applies worldwide and to all sports. NBA players from the early 90's would struggle in today's game. It's just how sport evolves as technology and fitness levels increase.

[@ewanwatkins7122]

@@Butcho22 ​ definitely but it’s a theme more pronounced in English football than anywhere else imo, probably mainly due to the huge influx of money in the English game. Players who could definitely play in top leagues in Europe play in the championship/league one. The national league is now pretty much fully professional, and I don’t think you’d find 5 fully pro leagues anywhere else in the world for any sport

[@nougat4416]

@@Asshat237 Money

[@mariospanna8389]

Well this is about the dumbest comment i have heard in a long time, congratulations on not knowing anything about football.

[@pithed2]

it's always tough comparing things that don't have metrics that square up. I think you did a pretty good job of stacking the leagues up. There will always be people from the rest of the world that will downgrade US soccer, but I think you make a good case for where the leagues fall.

[@bethegreatest4976]

The passion beats number. European football> U.S football 😅

[@itsytyt5192]

Gg

[@zuesnastrio3062]

@@bethegreatest4976 yes exactly, home advantage is massive and league one teams will have louder away fans in an american stadium than the home fans themselves which is a massive factor

[@johnhoney657]

I watch both my local MLS side and English Championship soccer regularly. The latter is definitely at a higher standard.

[@davidshatto7604]

@@zuesnastrio3062 definitely depends. I live in Atlanta and our average attendance for a match is around 50000. There are a lot of football fans in my area, but that certainly isn’t true of all of the country

[@joekendall7265]

Really enjoyed this video! I think you summed it up pretty accurately. I do believe that the Championship overall is a higher level than the MLS though. Different styles of football though! The championship is brutal!

[@_J_S_]

This is really interesting, great video! I've watched a lot of the Championship and MLS over the years and I've always thought MLS teams would probably fall somewhere around the bottom of the championship to the top half of League One. MLS has grown a lot recently and the standard is improving quickly but the Championship is also just pretty insane overall and super competitive. They're both quality leagues, probably both a little underrated!

[@Dwayndibb]

Yes I said League 1 would nice for the MLS team. So they would have a chance to win 👍

[@christiand6339]

Teams like LAFC, Philly, Atlanta, Seattle, Revs, etc would absolutely run rampant in League 1. Maybe 5-7 years ago this was true but the level in MLS increases every year bc of the salary cap improving as well as academies. I had a college soccer friend who played in the fifth tier in England, albeit as a reserve player, but he told me the best US college teams would beat lower tier League Two teams pretty easily bc most bottom tier English leagues are more about physically and not skill.

[@Tshikonelo]

@Christian D yes the few top MLS teams would win League 1 and then relegated after 1 season in the championship.

[@Ares14]

I was going to say exactly this. with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 MLS teams, the rest are probably on par with the bottom half of Championship teams.

[@darrenfowler3346]

Without relegation and promotion there can be no true comparison. From what I can see the MLS is equivalent to league 1.

[@travispoker]

appreciate the editing. It must take at least 8 hours to make this 8 min video.

[@jeanpaulajala-alexis59]

Great Video Matt! Would also be interesting to see the comparison between Germany and the US professional leagues

[@GStanna]

First time seeing one of your videos - loved it! Clear, concise and data driven. I used to play non league here in England and the standard are absolutely incredible, the English football pyramid is near perfect for producing talent

[@nathski22]

Very difficult to compare but I think you did a great job. I’m English but I’ve watched a fair amount of MLS and I’d say this looks fair. The quality of leagues in England is surprisingly strong. If you ever find an interview from a player who has dropped down the divisions, either as they got older or when they were released from Premier League academies at a young age, they are very often surprised at the quality of play in the leagues below the PL or even the Championship.

[@masterferguson8703]

If you watch mls alot you'll probably notice alot of sloppy..bouncy passes. Often with no thought of the guy receiving the ball. Drive me up the wall.. looks very amateur to me. Artificial pitches don't help with that.

[@willwatson4134]

What an incredible breakdown! I love that you used a variety of metric and also player perspective! Fantastic job, definitely by far the best breakdown I've seen on the subject!

[@JSL2000]

Having watched a lot of MLS games, its definitely getting a lot better. At the minute, I would actually put it at the top of League One. I would say that its around the standard of Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday, and Derby County.

[@joegallacher8032]

Just not Argyle eh?

[@jetorixjones]

I was thinking something pretty similar. MLS is below Championship level but above League One. Some MLS teams could compete in Championship but most would be closer to League One contenders. I wish we could get the promotion/relegation pyramid in the US but I highly doubt that will ever happen. It would do wonders for the sport, but owners only care about the money. I guess I can’t blame them but it still sucks.

[@JSL2000]

@@jetorixjones Thanks for reply. I think a pyramid system won't work in USA. The whole franchise model is too ingrained in your professional sporting psyche. Maybe not a bad thing as we have seen several clubs here go bust in difference sports from taking too big a financial risk trying to achieve the dream.

[@cindersofcreation]

But the refs belong in.... the national league; very poor officiating.

[@Butcho22]

I really enjoyed this and think your final thoughts are perfectly reasonable. I like how you did it in tiers which recognizes there are levels within each league.

[@thomaspalmer36]

Good summary, US football is often derided but it's come a long way. The championship is no joke!

[@themanorruns]

Interesting to hear these comparisons from the players perspective! I’ve had Brits visit to see a Hartford athletic game before and described the vibe as higher table national league with an Americanized feel, also considering how a former tranmere player did there. so it’s awesome hearing that players are considering it higher up like Lg1 or Lg2!

[@Samuel-hd3cp]

What does higher table national league mean mate?

[@TheRalphwoods]

@@Samuel-hd3cp national league = 5th tier, below league 2

[@Benisjammin11]

Great vid man. Such a hard comparison but I think you nailed it. The top championship teams are above the MLS. The example of Johnny Russell, used to be a good winger for a top championship team in derby county, becoming a very good winger in the MLS (in his first season or two atleast). The quality drops of significantly in the league 1/2 space, where I think alot of MLS/USLC players could play technically, though the physicality at this level sadly can drown out good technical players.

[@richbuckingham]

I was just at the last Sporting KC game in Seattle and Russell was a standout talent, best player on the pitch by a mile. The rest of the players were not impressive at all by comparison and the quality of coaching (or lack of it) is notable too.

[@Benisjammin11]

@@richbuckingham Stand out players among alot of mediocrity in the MLS. I loved Johnny at Derby but was never really close to winning a player of the year award in the way he has in the MLS - he's also now well into his 30s. Would be difficult to see him playing at championship level at this point.

[@markgayle5950]

From what I've seen of the MLS, it is around League 1 standard. The Championship is a tough high quality competition, it would be the highest standard, second tier league in the world.

[@Nícolasborusssiadortmund]

"alta qualidade"não é melhor nem que a liga saudita,a mls é uma das piores no quesito qualidade técnica

[@ConorOKeefe]

Really tough topic to make a video on, but this was excellent. Well done Matt, keep up the great work!

[@dgh6g33gf]

USL is awsome, they broadcast all their games for free on youtube and the level is decent, last's year's finale was one of the better matches I saw that year.

[@canyonoverlook9937]

I was watching some of the games and it is a good league. Are you in the UK? It is on ESPN + in the US.

[@de132]

I totally agree with your final thoughts when it comes to MLS. USL Championship, I'd put a little lower, respectfully (Not a knock against USLC at all).

[@herv7539]

There are championship sides stronger than teams in the top division of Europe’s top 5 leagues. I’d also say the same about certain league one sides currently. English leagues are so well balanced even compared to European nations. The third and fourth divisions in countries like Germany, Spain, France, Italy is almost nonexistent compared to England’s league one and two. Even conference in England is a pretty high standard.

[@jackdubz4247]

England is a European nation.

[@stardivarius5496]

No league one side is on par with any top 5 league Clubs lol. The best Championship club could probably compete in Ligue 1 without too much trouble tho

[@BonnietheCockapoodog]

I’m sorry but I just can’t see Schalke losing to the likes off Sheffield Wednesday and Plymouth

[@KitagumaIgen]

@@BonnietheCockapoodog but they won the 1966 World Cup!

[@RNDM-nd7tj]

@@BonnietheCockapoodog They would lose to burnley though

[@rq7284]

American attendance numbers are inflated. They report tickets sold as attendance, so all season ticket holders are reported as attending even if they don't. Red Bulls was reported to have an average attendance of 16k last year, but in reality it's usually around 5-9k per game in the stands. I'm not sure about England, but not all countries count attendance that way.

[@enjchannel9546]

That makes total sense, thank you. The games are ALWAYS empty, yet you see these ridiculous attendance figures.

[@JM-zg2lg]

England records their attendance the same way. I expect because of accounting purposes as ST's are guaranteed revenue.

[@SC-bc6tz]

I believe its recorded in the same way in England but the vast majority of season ticket holders will be going to most games and are die hard fans in the prem, maybe its different in the mls, I'm no expert but maybe season tickets are less expensive so its not as much of a waste if you don't go or perhaps the audience is generally more middle class and so can afford to skip a game here and there if they have a season ticket? maybe more designated seating for more exclusive guests? I don't mean to throw any shade btw just thinking of reasons why so many would buy season tickets and not use them.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

MLS doesn't use tickets sold but tickets distributed. So if you put free tickets in a 7-11 around the corner from the stadium, MLS would count that as attendance. I used to work for a PL club before everything was scanned via barcodes or contactless cards. They would sit down with the numbers from executive boxes, hospitality lounges, disabled supporters sections, the number of tickets sold and then a breakdown from the turnstiles and sort of guesstimate a number down to the nearest 50. Sometimes people would forget their season ticket and pay a deposit for a duplicate but that'd throw the season ticket voucher numbers out (this was when season tickets were in a book). It was pretty efficient and learned guesswork but guesswork nevertheless. However, they'd never just announce 25,000 if 12,000 turned up.

[@jontalbot1]

Numbers are one thing, intensity another. America is a young, very mobile society and there is not the same degree of attachment to place as there is in older countries. The US is more about spectating and less about participating because there is not the same degree of emotional attachment. Going to a football match in England is about confirming and sharing your identity with others. Even though you don’t know the other supporters, there is fellowship and respect for the past, carried on into the present. This is hard to understand in a society where everything is a top down, consumer choice and ‘community’ has no real meaning. This is not a criticism of the US. It’s a new country with people from everywhere so the priority has been to make everyone an American. England, courtesy of Athelstan, has been a country for over a thousand years. We know who we are

[@humesdae]

Loved this as I am a fan favorite of Aston Villa but always wondered where salaries and levels worked out. Now to find your video on all the other leagues matching up to the EPL.

[@erikreddington461]

Interesting players pay is always described as weekly pay and not giant contracts or yearly salary. Wonder why so different, the only sport I've seen this, worldwide to my knowledge.

[@VOM1975]

I'm a Brit living in Atlanta for 15 years. Didn't watch much MLS before Atlanta got a team, but seen quite a lot now. Hard to compare for many reasons, but I'm inclined to agree with those folks who put the MLS alongside League One rather than Championship. To me the big difference is the standard of defending. Very poor in the MLS, and made to look worse since the most talented (designated) players tend to be attacking. If any team actually invested in older lower Prem or championship (or European league equivalent) defenders I believe they would be much stronger than the teams that throw all their money at attacking players. If Wrexham come and play some games next year it will be interesting to see how they compete. Not a typical National League team by any means, and playing pre-season friendlies is not an accurate barometer, but I think they will shock a few MLS teams/fans.

[@drivingcroooner]

I completely agree with your take. I'd also say that from what I've seen players in the English leagues from top to bottom also are more well rounded technically. Many MLS starters seem to excel at a couple aspects of their play while being surprisingly bad at other specific things. I think MLS teams are more accepting of these deficiences in players than English teams are, especially when you compare MLS to the Championship. Latif Blessing comes to mind as an example of what I am referring to. He's a nailed on starting winger but he is down right bad at shooting and crossing.

[@ArtyMcMuffin]

I agree that the defending is very poor in MLS, but some teams do look for those kinds of players. CF Montreal last season had a fantastic record and people didn't understood why. But they had Victor Wanyama as a DP (defensive-mid), a lot of the Canadian MNT team at defense (Piette, Waterman, Johnston, Miller). Just that helped both offense and defense a lot as the transitions would be a lot better. That said, from what I've seen, league one players weren't good enough to play as regulars in MLS for the most part, so I disagree with the statement that it is the level of the league overall. Though the analysis in the video seems fair, most MLS teams would probably play lower-half in the championship but it is completely different styles so it's hard to say. The worst MLS teams are really bad, so yea they would probably be in league one.

[@CaptainXD]

I'm honestly kind of tired of the MLS vs Britain comparisons because the style of play is much different. I feel like it would make more sense to compare MLS to leagues like the Eredivisie or maybe Belgian sides

[@MindSurf248]

@@CaptainXD The reasons given in this comments section are spot on though, and honestly alot of European leagues have more empahsis on defence and technique than in Britain not less. It would be interesting to compare MLS to Scottish Prem. Rangers and Celtic are clearly better, but I can imagine teams like Hibs would be having some good games out there.

[@appletree13]

Well you got your wish. Wrexham AFC are playing Vancouver Whitecaps FC in June. Tickets are absurd though because Wrexham is in charge of the event.

[@Taco002]

This falls in line with what I had always thought just on my own observations. Great Vid.

[@shantiescovedo4361]

Great breakdown. Thanks for putting in the work on that. Sounds reasonable to me.

[@rickstarr941]

you're being very kind to US football

[@paul8058]

Henry said playing im MLS wasnt even comparable to the French 2nd division which is certainly worst down the English championship.

[@MrJerryCola]

This is probably where I would have put them before even watching this video. I like the way it's broken down, especially with actual players perspectives too.

[@AmitDebnath09]

Love these data driven videos! It would be awesome if you did more like this, such as looking into player movement and action data (more touches in the opponent half equals better forward and etc.).

[@aw6190]

I’m so

[@MindSurf248]

I've not seen loads of MLS and it's mainly been Inter Miami games this season, but from what i've seen I would say inbetween Championship and League 1 looks about right.

[@mgibuk]

Cool video I really enjoyed it, especially seeing the attendance stats for the MLS. I don't know much about the MLS but I was sat thinking (as an English person who thought you were going to say in-between prem and champ throughout the video) that I would be surprised if any MLS team would beat Burnley at the top of championship (no disrespect of course) or even my team, Middlesbrough (UTB) who are in 3rd and going really well right now. I would personally maybe go a little lower by 5-7 places with the assessment (24 teams in the champ) because in my opinion, while the prem is probably the best league in the world, the champ is probably considered up there with the hardest league, and there are some really good and well established teams in it that are like one or two decent players away from pushing promotion.

[@Baraxes]

I agree with this

[@fanbatcher]

Couldn’t you extrapolate the weekly salaries in England to more accurately compare to annual salaries in the USA? It appears that the USL is below even Division 2. The enormous financial gap between MLS and USL confirms why any promotion/relegation between these leagues will never happen. Many MLS teams play in world class stadiums while some USL teams play in essentially high school fields

[@firstelevenproductions3112]

Thanks Matt for the insight into the leagues and criteria you used. Your content is enjoyable and always useful.

[@ENGBriseB]

The National league in England would shock a few Clubs in the MLS let alone league 2 bottom half of or middle of League One. Watched plenty of football though the leagues.

[@ParallaxRS]

Championship is definitely a better standard than MLS. The competition in the Championship is absolutely crazy where any team can beat any other. It’s like a shark pool - really tough, energetic, attritional league

[@alex_romero19]

One tier too high for both my friend, MLS would be where you put USL in the thumbnail, and USL would be in between league 1 and 2

[@markonline1.]

I don’t watch MLS, but now we have a USL team, I’ve started following the team and the league as a whole. Having lived in England and now the US, the USL is probably on a par with the upper tier of non league football. I haven’t seen a USL team yet, that I think would survive long in any of the top leagues. Now USL has several tiers, it’s crying out for relegation and promotion. Bring that in and IMO it will eventually overtake MLS, football will grow faster in the US, more home grown talent will emerge and the US will begin to become a decent force in world football.

[@tarik158]

Averaged out, MLS is pretty much the Championship. This is possible because there is a gap opening up between ambitious teams (think Atlanta, LAFC, Seattle) that could (with some money thrown at better defenders) could be promoted to the Premier League and compete. Not for a title obviously, but not relegation fodder every year.

[@onbedoeldekut1515]

Something that you didn't consider in the salaries section, was that the MLS is sort of considered the Florida of leagues. It's where players in the Euro leagues go when they would otherwise retire, lured in by inflated wages for an easy pay-day. Those inflated salaries boost what might otherwise be a middle-tier league.

[@AAblade7]

Not so sure about that Atlanta United’s biggest transfer value is 22 year old Thiago Almada and his value is around 27 million euros. MLS has been grabbing promising young talent form South America now for the past 6 or so years. Every year the number of national team players from South America in the MLS goes up. So it’s not all Zlatans.

[@newforestpixie5297]

Fans of AFCBournemouth have little problem being placed last in any Premiership Stats because I for one still feel exactly like Marty Mc Fly when he couldn’t believe how his local side struggling in 1985 had now made the big time in 2015 ! Very interesting work chap. Many thanks 👍😁

[@nothanks3236]

The problem with MLS is that the strict salary caps mean terrible trouble with squad depth and quality. The quality dropoff from a DP attacker (and pretty much any other starter, regardless if they're a DP) and the next man up in that position is enormous, much larger than in other leagues with less restrictive financial rules. Just look at Atlanta United this last weekend when they were without Almada, Giakoumakis, and Miles Robinson (as well as several other players who were all away with their national teams). After a hot start of three wins and one draw, they got trounced 6-1 by a technically weaker Columbus side, because all the backups who had to play for ATL were demonstrably poorer in skill/ability.

[@GusMac6129]

I went to a New York City game this year, it had to be the worst experience i have had in a football game. The game itself was that of Scottish Highland League standard. The place was empty and soul less, & the food/drink cost a mortgage. Never again.

[@sjewitt22]

I think comparing how the players do in the leagues might be the best way, I'd be surprised if most USL player could cut it in league one or even two, as there is no way that the the worst players in the MLS could play Championship level. Honestly I wouldn't expect many USL teams to get out the conference, though they probably could compete, though the conference is one the most improved leagues in the past 10 odd years, as teams who get promoted no longer struggle so much in league two. But again look at some of the best players in league one and they could play in the MLS while the worst in the MLS would not be getting games in the leagues I don't think. Though leagues are different some players are better at certain leagues, teams, systems than they are at others etc.

[@michaelfarrow5817]

It's difficult to do a straight up comparison. The disparity between the very top players in MLS and the bottom 10% is huge. Insigne and Bernardeschi could play in the Premier League, Shaqiri maybe, Chicha and Higuain are too over the hill physically. It's fair to say that the top end of MLS is better than the EFL Championship. However, the lower end players are probably lower-end League 1/League 2 quality. The guys on 65K, who might not have a career in two years, probably wouldn't get in a professional team in the National League. What would Paul Mullin of Wrexham do against MLS defences, given nobody can defend in that league and he's scored against Championship teams? So the average rank-and-file MLS player is probably a top end EFLL1/bottom end EFLC. They're Jonson Clarke-Harris, basically. How much better are the best USL players than the worst MLS players? All bar two players in the top 10 of last year's USL Championship scoring charts were MLS washouts. The exceptions were Óttar Magnús Karlsson and Kyle Vassell. Karlsson is a big guy who scored 14 in 22 in his last stint in Iceland but hasn't scored regularly anywhere else in his career other than USLC. He's one of those guys who has bounced around Europe because he has size and talent, eventhough that doesn't always equal production. He's Balint Bajner minus the obnoxious "No Bajner, No Party" crew. Vassell's best spell prior to USL was playing for Blackpool in League 2 and League 1 where he got 24 in 71 games, a shade under 1 in 3. He scored 14 in 30 in the USLC. So the few direct comparisons we can make is that good players in USLC could probably hang in the bottom half of League 1 with the right setup around them. All very difficult and confusing!

[@eddygee694]

It's funny how the Brits rate MLS higher than the one American. It's just a sample size but speaks to the perspectives I've found where some Americans because of our historical inferiority complex mentally we put Euro football on a higher pedestal. So it's interesting seeing the Brits coming from a different perspective rate MLS higher.

[@TickleMeElmo55]

Yes, it is interesting isn't it!

[@dkwsu16]

Everyone wants to hype up their level and skill. The American moved from MLS to English lower league football so he wants to make it sound like he went to a better place, meanwhile the Brit’s moved from English football to the American Leagues and they wanna justify their moves.

[@tomatoisnotafruit5670]

Basically based on these stats and criteria in this vid overall MLS is below the Championship but a bit better than League 1, and USLC is just below League 2. But if we compare the style of football played and the differences in physicality, pace, and tempo, American clubs are not comparable at all. So if we were to take the best Championship clubs and play them in a serious game against the best MLS clubs, MLS would get blown out of the water. This argument is also pretty easy to support because old players from European leagues go to MLS and have an easy time playing there even thou their age means they should be outpaced and out muscled by the younger players of MLS but they aren't.

[@biomatrix8154]

Can u do a vid on why the USA doesn't do promotion and relegation like the normal countries?

[@h8sjws735]

Is an interesting discussion, I couldn't argue with your final breakdown. I watch them all to various levels, it's incredible time to be a fan as far as the coverage goes

[@MyNameIsDan1992]

Having lives in the US for 7 years now I miss my beloved plymouth argyle beyond compare.. with plymouth I got to experience the entirety of the pyramid for the most part. Also watched the prem on TV as standard. I've since watched the MLS the US open USL league 2 and will attend my first USL league 1 match in the coming weeks... the difficulty with comparing the leagues is almost impossible when you look at just how different the competitions are. The travel time here in the US is a huge factor but then the sheer number of games in England is also another huge factor to consider. As far as standard of play I would agree that for the most part MLS sits at a championship level. A few MLS teams might break into the prem but only in the same way a few championship teams can and will because of promotion.. on that not US soccer as a whole would vastly improve by introducing promotion and relegation.. even if it was merely 1 team up 1 team down each season. Competition drives results and competition throughout the league, top AND bottom, separates the wheat from the chaff. From what I've seen of USL championship for the most part I would rate it bottom end of league 1 and maybe playoff level league 2. USL1 as the first level of pro football here is actually probably a higher standard than the national league which is the first pro level in England. I can't believe some of the leagues the teams can pull players from in USL1. They probably sit at playoff level national conference to mid table league 2. Lastly USL2 is probably at or below national conference south/north level. The organisation of teams at that semi pro level is far less than in England but at this level the travel is what must break teams. My local USL2 team just folded and in no doubt it's because of having to travel 8hours regularly for away games.. at semi pro level.. US football is on the rise but will forever be held back by lack promotion/relegation and the funding that is built into that. As well as the chance for a storyline that increases the drama of the sport

[@MatthewWeller88]

Green Army! 💚

[@TickleMeElmo55]

>US football is on the rise but will forever be held back by lack promotion/relegation A lack of pro/rel didn't stop the NFL, NHL, NBA and MLB from being great leagues, so I don't see how it would stop the MLS from growing too.

[@MyNameIsDan1992]

@@TickleMeElmo55 because those leagues pull all the attention over here.. MLS has the opportunity to attract attention to itself by being pro/rel.. also if MLS wants the respect of the rest of the football world it's needed imo

[@eddiegaltek]

I think you summation of the leagues relative merits is fairly accurate, not going to argue with it; good overall analysis.

[@alanmoore2197]

Its good that you tried to find a way to establish rational relative metrics of comparison. But - I think this is still optimistic in the extreme. MLS to me sits well below the Championship on average. The best few of the MLS teams could probably stay up in the Championship - but most would compete better against league 1 level teams. So I'd reverse what you said. The top 5 MLS team probably compete at Championship level (but certainly not as good as the top few championship teams), most of the rest could probably compete well in league 1. In my view none are anywhere close to Premier league level - so this analysis makes sense since the top 3 Championship teams will rotate to the premier league annually. I will give you that MLS has been improving steadily.

[@nonayabusiness6170]

Very informative video! Thank you! As an American, I've always been curious and my love for Football never actually thought of this! I've always think of if you're good enough then you'e good enough! This video helps me understand the market side better of the sport.

[@mischacollins184]

really enjoyed this, how would different college leagues compare going down into english semi pro leagues?

[@yo123516]

You could probably make a better comparison there because a lot of American college teams go over to England and play against lower league teams and premier league/championship reserve sides.

[@scottshinbaum1772]

I think you nailed it pretty well at the end. Coming from an American living in one of the higher USL Championship cities.

[@mango4ttwo635]

I remember Landon Donovan saying ten years ago that the MLS was upper League One (English third tier) and bottom of championship (second tier). The English league has strengthened since then as it is furth£r and furth£r ahead of other major European national leagues

[@ryyanzissou]

As an American who has been watching the Championship and League One for the past 18-19 years, I still agree with that comparison (at no disrespect to the MLS). I honestly think if the Championship wasn’t looked at as the second division of English football, it would be considered too 8 league in the world. Not only is the competition at a high level, but the amount of fixtures is unreal. As you stated, too, more and more money is entering at this level. Each season, more talented youngsters are being bought and playing at the Prem level. I have also been to a good amount of USL matches (go Riverhounds!) and a handful of National League South matches (up the Hamlet!). I think the USL is probably closer to the bottom end of League Two, personally. Again, no disrespect intended towards the USL and the players. There have been phenomenal talents that have come out of non-league football. I mean obviously just look at Vardy as the prime example. Also Michail Antonio, Nick Pope, Chris Smalling, Callum Wilson… The game has improved so much in the US in recent years. It’s great to see.

[@dxvxd0079]

@@ryyanzissou yh efl is so exciting rn lots of teams fighting for play offs hopefully Watford can get it not playing too good rn thou

[@李明翰-q7x]

Great video! Comparing different leagues is an interesting topic!

[@NorthernSpartan]

I play fotball in 5th division in Norway as a hobby and work as a teacher. It’s pretty dope to think i earn the same as the average player on league 2.

[@user-ei7ed6zy9k]

Agreed with you. The MLS finally has serious potential to be as watched in England as we watch any of the other top 5 leagues. The only problem is stubborn ignorance of anything American

[@turritopsisrockola]

At 4 am in the morning?

[@user-ei7ed6zy9k]

@@turritopsisrockola plenty of games played while its 7pm here. I mean that MLS cup last season was one of the most thrilling ive watched in years and loads of people in the UK were invested. Bale effect maybe but still

[@dxvxd0079]

I’ve only watched one game this season Orlando vs rb and the only shot on target was a pen, very boring football not worth watching at 1am

[@TickleMeElmo55]

> stubborn ignorance of anything American This is true. And it goes both ways. We have Americans who do not want to watch the MLS because "it's the MLS" and they're Eurosnobs, and then we have non-Americans who mock the US for even playing the game of soccer.

[@Adrian-wd4rn]

@@TickleMeElmo55 I don't watch MLS because its boring af. So many misplaced passes, 25 yard gaps between players, as they stand their and wait for a bumbling pass to be picked up. LOL. MLS fans cope so hard.

[@albinjohnsson2511]

To add another perspective, mid-level Allsvenskan (Swedish top-flight) players often go to MLS teams and transition very smoothly. Allsvenskan is currently Europe's 23rd-ranked league. What makes the MLS hard to judge is the range of quality. You have some people that would be utterly mediocre in any European league literally playing next to Messi.

[@jimwest7107]

I'd fancy Sheffield Wednesday (top of L1) to beat every 2nd division US side with ease and probably up to the top 6 MLS sides. You look at Sunderland who just went up from L1 and they have an England International touted goalkeeper and are knocking on the door of the Championship top 6 already. Burnley (runaway Championship leaders) would beat every MLS side I think.

[@turritopsisrockola]

I watched the last game of Sheffield's last season in the championship where they could have saved relegation and it was unnerving how the players were so calm and slow to play even in the final minutes, my neighborhood team shows more passion and heart than what I saw that day lol. I don't know if they wanted to go down a league to come back stronger or what.

[@Tommo0706]

Innit! Not to sound cocky but we would comfortably beat most MLS sides, we beat benfica as a championship club, in league 1 we would beat most MLS. I’m conflicted with this debate as I do think MLS is underrated at times but even that being said I think the championship is majorly underrated, I struggle to buy the fact that MLS would sit at championship level, even the big sides I think would struggle to stay up in the championship. As for league 1 I think that’s probably where they would sit, as poor as that may seem, league 1 is currently the best it has ever been (sounds obvious but it has dramatically improved in recent years) so I think that would be more accurate, whereas USL for me would be national league level (the league Wrexham are in, another underrated league by people who don’t follow football closely). But yeah the jump between league 1 and the championship is just too big a jump in my opinion for 90% of MLS sides to cope. I’m surprised that website had it down as the 11th best league as many I’m aware of have it down as the 6th best (the best of the rest) which would make sense especially given the majority of top prem loans go there. Just my thoughts anyway

[@MrNickcafc]

Completely agree. I'm a Charlton fan so see a lot of League One, but live in Vancouver so see the Whitecaps. There is no chance Whitecaps are better than Sheffield Wednesday / Derby / Ipswich. I think those sides would beat the Whitecaps comfortably.

[@LFM-ug2vr]

I’m English but live in Los Angeles, watch a lot of the championship, only a bit of league 1. LAFC win easily most weeks in MLS, a player like Vela is at half speed most games.. they rest Chiellini etc. I feel LAFC could compete with lower half championship clubs straight away. And after time I think would be promotion level. But the consistency and quality week to week in the championship and league 1 would destroy most mls sides. There’s big drop off in quality in MLS which you only rarely get in the championship usually with a solid relegated prem side.

[@mategabortoth7227]

That's why most Hungarian footballers playing for MLS teams are prominent there (Nikolic, Sallói, Németh, Gazdag), the level of the league is at best close to the European mid-range leagues (Eredivise, Belgian first league) from behind.

[@PorscheLegacy]

1. Premier league 2. Championship 3. MLS = League One 4. League Two 5. USL Thats the correct ranking.

[@staticcharm3808]

Only according to Eurosnobs. MLS is WAY better than League One

[@PorscheLegacy]

@@staticcharm3808 On paper yea, but if a league one side played a MLS side, the league one side would 100% win.

[@cardboardcapeii4286]

@@PorscheLegacyhaha yeah right

[@cardboardcapeii4286]

MLS is on par, slightly worse than the championship

[@PorscheLegacy]

@@cardboardcapeii4286 its alot worse than the championship. mabye I was wrong with it being equal to league one. it probably is better than league one but its not on par with the championship. the championship is literally where teams get promoted to the biggest league in the world.

[@User-pu3lc]

FWIW, I’ve watched a fair amount of MLS, Premiership and Championship games live on the US West coast for about a decade and across the UK for 4 years when I lived over there. I think your assessment is pretty spot on 👍. Given the discrepancies in USL and League one play, I’m surprised more US players aren’t in that system. Would love to see more US players in the Championship or Premier league but MLS salaries seem pretty over inflated by comparison to performance.

[@crazydrummer5043]

Where would the other U.S. leagues fall (ex. USL League One or NISA) in comparison to the English leagues? I imagine it would be similar to non-league football (Div. 5 or below).

[@rq7284]

If I had to guess, NISA is generally considered lower than USL 1. But it's not 100% that way team by team. I think USL 1 would be National League level, maybe National League North/South. And NISA would be 7th tier quality with some teams at National League north/south level.

[@billmiller2368]

I've seen NISA live and the Irish First division live and they are comparable!

[@oliver_sport_1767]

my opinions in that the MLS IS more leauge one and top of leauge two and the USL is national leauge or national leauges north or south level

[@alexfarrah]

Off the field they stack up where they do. But you left out standard of play, MLS is mostly lower than championship level and USL would be lucky to be League 2 level.

[@TehStormOG]

play championship would be worse if they had the deal with the heat and the travel like the MLS/USL does

[@calvinbaII]

@@TehStormOG I wonder if the heat really does mess with things. I catch enough MLS games/highlights and the skill level is pretty good but I can't for the life of me really get into it because the pace/intensity just doesn't seem to be there. There is no high press, no fast counter attacks, too much lateral passing between the backline slowing the build up and allowing the defenders to track back and block lanes, and so on. You still see some nice goals and tricks, good atmospheres etc so MLS is still a quality league tho.

[@calle9368]

I’ve watched some MLS when I’m bored and I’m quite impressed with the individual quality, every team got some good players but also some league 1 standard players. But the thing is that the MLS teams are poor tactically. So I think the top half of the championship would smash the MLS teams but maybe the top 8 MLS teams or so would survive.

[@jamieashcroft8758]

Absolutely delusional! The USL would be the same level as the Northern Premier League in England. Those 5 friends are just being polite to you and not wanting to hurt your feelings. The standard in League 2 in England is ridiculous. They’re class, it’s a completely different standard to what you play in - it’s not even comparable!

[@fatdaddy1996]

Got to say I agree with Jamie.

[@wamogid7179]

spot on

[@_Jake.From.Statefarm_]

So they are lying but we should just trust your opinion instead?... Of course, can't see any bias here!!!

[@wamogid7179]

@@_Jake.From.Statefarm_ trust jamie's opinion

[@_Jake.From.Statefarm_]

@@wamogid7179 Think I'll trust the players who actually played there.

[@ballistiks]

Excellent video mate! Loved the graphics and in-depth research! You earned a subscriber today! Would love to see you do it again but include college leagues and maybe the Canadian premier League too

[@dozz_pr]

I doubt any mls team would finish top half in the championship

[@bartonez123]

I think the MLS as a whole probably sits just below the championship as a whole (with teams overlapping), but the USLC is probably much closer to league 2 than league 1.

[@MrGrombie]

If the premiere was so good, you’d think England would have won a World Cup. 😂

[@Dezzasheep]

There's this phenomena called 'foreign players', apparently most of the top premiere league teams are composed of them.

[@_Jake.From.Statefarm_]

@@Dezzasheep lol and people were surprised that MLS had "foreign players" lol. They thought it was just Americans who couldn't make it in EU.

[@adamrafeedie1543]

MLS is growing at at such an insane rate. I’m so excited for it.

[@turritopsisrockola]

I used to watch quite a few matches on the weekend when the mls was on espn in latin america but it isn't on TV anymore this season. We can watch less liga mx matches on cable this season but it's better than none for competing with the mls in the Latin American markets.

[@ConorF727]

My only exposure to the USL has been through your game analysis videos and if I’m being totally honest it looks like non league level.

[@colemerchant8926]

Probably up to par with league 2 or midtable league one considering some of their players played at a high level in europe.

[@ConorF727]

@@colemerchant8926 You definitely could be right, I’ve not seen enough to give a fair judgement.

[@valornash8463]

Keep in mind, to be blunt, Matt has not played with a top half USL team at all in the last 2-3 years, maybe longer depending on where you classify Tulsa. Charlton Battery finished as by far the worst team that wasn't a "II" team last year. Comparing that to Louisville or San Antonio or a few other teams and the difference is stark. Not that Matt couldn't make those teams, but he hasn't been surrounded by good talent for a while

[@antenna7002]

The league in the US is weird I heard some college teams might be able to be MLS teams. What makes it difficult too rank is the lack of a promotion and relegation system

[@colemerchant8926]

@@antenna7002 Nah there's no way a college team can beat an MLS team tbf.

[@Kloiyd]

I understand how difficult it can be to compare different leagues with completely different playstyles, tactics and origins but I think you did a very good job in comparing them in a more fair manner.

[@Murdocke89]

You’re being very generous to the MLS there, definite bias

[@bachvutuyetvoi3789]

Great Matt! Your thoughts are really detailed and I think fair enough. So nice to learn from how you evaluate everything.

[@kingkai18]

Just going off of the eye test, I wouldn't be surprised if Ipswich Town could beat Toronto FC 3 times out of 3

[@samrastagar8554]

I agree on paper Toronto FC is the better team though but they can’t play as a team well atleast not yet

[@kingkai18]

@@samrastagar8554 Gotta get Bradely out and some new faces in desperately the team has no workrate or chemistry :(

[@samrastagar8554]

@@kingkai18 facts smh

[@davidg7987]

What a great job. Played both countries and would say best of MLS is more on par with bottom half championship. Premier league is so far clear of all leagues. Loved this!

[@mjc8281]

As a long time supporter of Manchester City I recall the year we got promoted out of the third tier and within a handful of years finishing 9th do that's what 35 places in the pyramid.... but I maintain the gap between top three in the third tier is closer to 9th than the gap between 9th and 4th...... So I would suggest that the best MLS teams could make a fist of staying up in the Premier League, but.... might also struggle to get out of League One.

[@techsamurai11]

Great analysis especially using all the different metrics - I watched Wrexham play the Union 2 and I would agree with your analysis.

[@webb3201]

As a supporter of a mid tier Championship side, and a regular attendee of MLS games, in no way is the MLS is on par with the Championship play level.

[@tylerwill7259]

Love all the stats and data used. Really cool video!

[@mmahighlights9014]

Brilliant video on a topic I was always very curios about. Broke it down really well and clearly put a lot of work into it

[@freddiejohnson6137]

Really interesting way of breaking it down. As someone who regularly watches the Championship the quality there while it is significantly better than it was say 25 years ago the wages and values of players are often higher for a lot of teams that have dropped down from the Premier League as they are financially compensated for that so they don't struggle short term. Usually those teams that get promoted have to have a huge influx of better players to stand a chance of staying up due to the gulf in quality even between the best Championship teams and the ones near the bottom of the Premier League. I would actually suggest that some MLS teams with more experienced international players may to much better competing at that level than some expect and maybe exceed it due to a much more competitive nature than some times they face when going to the MLS. Still too many variables to definitively say.

[@canyonoverlook9937]

Too bad we can't see the best MLS teams in the EPL to see how well they would do. I think they are better than people give them credit for. I don't think they would automatically be relegated.

[@dobbiewilliams334]

I think that is a very fair conclusion. I’d agree with that completely.

[@niranjan6918]

ngl actually a brilliant video with great graphics thank you Matt ! love from india ❤

[@cannongardner2658]

Great video, I think your breakdown is pretty reasonable. I've often wondered how they stacked up and am pleasantly surprised to see the MLS right up there with Championship

[@coachmena]

Fair statements. Great job putting this together. Thank you for the information and transparency.

[@Sergio-pc6hz]

Love the detail you went into in this vid. Cool to see the visualisation of the data. I found it interesting the pay gap between the highest paid player in the MLS and the average pay. Good conclusion I thought, the league system in the US does seem to be a ways behind the English system but in terms of national teams, US is catching up with the quality of its players - hence the draw in the World Cup.

[@kenw7287]

The reason for the massive pay gap in MLS is that only 3 designated players are exempt from the salary cap. The rest of the roster has to fit under a salary cap which is quite low. Also most of the starting IS national team players play for European clubs. Hence why the US national team performs better these days.

[@RichCwm]

MLS - League One USA 2nd league - Non League

[@SuperSirianRigel]

When you said median in the money section I was confused as crap. You were saying the lowest number when you said median. Wouldn't median be for like the middle of the road kinda salary?

[@bryannacaldwellsoccer]

I think your analysis and conclusions are excellent, thank you for the video

[@bazzaman91]

very well done comparing the leagues objectively. Sounds like a very reasonable conclusion.

[@rodrigo53]

The best MLS teams would be League 1. Most of them would be League 2 and Conference.

[@augusto2006-amg]

Nice video, you should have included USL league 1 as it is also a professional USA league

[@kalzangbhutia2474]

patiently waiting for your vlog champ.

[@ianbob]

Excellent data and solid analysis. Thanks for sharing. As a spectator, I think your final analysis checks out too, with MLS and USL Championship not fitting neatly aside any single league in England. Not mentioned here is the effect of MLS' salary cap and the lack of promotion and relegation. I suspect the absence of a salary cap and the presence of pro/rel would boost the quality of American soccer.

[@nothanks3236]

Relegation aside, loosening the financial restrictions would absolutely improve the league. But doing that would put a spotlight on the many cheap owners in the league who constantly try to spend the bare minimum, and MLS and Garber can't have that.