Which Fan Support Boxes Meet 2020 NEC? National Electrical Code 314.27 (C)

[@1822arivera]

I love the way you teach! Showing examples, comely ask questions and the NEC code. For the most part.. better than my professor.. lol.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks so much! I have an advantage over professors because I can edit out my goofs. LOL!

[@illestofdemall13]

@@SparkyChannel You also work in the field, so that helps.

[@SparkyChannel]

@@illestofdemall13 Yes, it does give a different perspective. You have that perspective as well, borne from long hard days of working with both hands and mind.

[@illestofdemall13]

@@SparkyChannel Yes. This past Saturday we had to fix an installation that someone else botched and it had to be done last minute because the customer was arriving Monday and the designer was going on vacation Monday. Also, we were supposed to install the fixture on Friday but the designer didn't answer my boss's call so it was actually the designer's fault that the other crew messed it up. We finally figured out what had to be done and made a plan and got it done. We also had to install another light that someone else supposedly was going to install but they didn't get to. Turns out that fixture is made by someone local and it has a design flaw to work around. To top it all off, the electrician wired the wrong load and capped off the right load and we had to figure that out all last minute. Lol

[@illestofdemall13]

We also had to install a lighted mirror with a defogger, but that took me only 30 minutes. That was the easiest part of last Saturday. Haha.

[@kenbrown2808]

for clarification, equipment above the weight rating of the box must be secured to the building structure. - and in previous codes, there were no boxes considered acceptable to support a fan weighing more than 50 pounds.

[@wim0104]

you mean light fixtures? i have to read/watch again

[@kenbrown2808]

@@wim0104 light fixtures OR fans. you'll notice the box is rated for a heavier fixture than a fan - the difference is even the best balanced fans have a slight wobble to them.

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent clarification, thanks!

[@SparkyChannel]

Ken, I have a question if you don't mind: When can we use the cheap plastic ceiling boxes anymore? I'm thinking about doing a video on that. Kind of the opposite of this video. Thanks!

[@kenbrown2808]

@@SparkyChannel I'll have to look it up when I get around to getting my 2020 handbook or next time I see my inspector. I doubt there will be a universal fan box requirement that doesn't lead to a general revolt.

[@MrEricdgreat]

I remember having to put a 2x4 for ceiling fans not anymore o how things have changed for the better. This wound have saved me some time boxing a home. Thank you for the the information sparky .

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, I used to do that as well. Thanks!

[@javierarmenta3551]

I recommend sparky to all my apprentice friends

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Javier!

[@OtisPlunk]

I still like the NEC Simplified Abridged Edition: "Don't do anything stupid." :-)

[@SparkyChannel]

LOL! Good one!

[@Justfor2day10]

I’ve used fan rated boxes since they’ve came out think about. Any future electrician will appreciate it when they take down a light to install a fan and it’s rated for fan

[@petermoto409]

#10 screws, NOT 10 gauge. And the bottom blue box is NOT a fan box, it's simply a light-duty fixture box.

[@chrissilva5659]

That’s honestly sweet that there making that code for them all to be ceiling fan rated now

[@bluesdirt6555]

I have old construction chandelier , replacing with a fan ,it’s conduit metal construction and screwed to a stud seems very strong ? Not 10 gauge screws . The box has wings that are screwed to the stud.

[@captainmahoney9423]

Hi sparky can you make a video on box fill calculations?

[@krystiang7652]

I'm a Canadian Apprentice and these calculations are always messy for me. A video would be great

[@SparkyChannel]

Here you go: Is this Box Overfilled by 2020 NEC Code?: Amazon: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6LIgKCgas6qq9U

[@Krankie_V]

That's a nice thing to have in the code for future upgrades. Someday down the line someone can replace a plain light fixture with a ceiling fan if they want without tearing anything out. Super handy.

[@stevediep4328]

So how do we know? Is there a height requirement?

[@Abcdefghi4093]

Can you do one on recessed can lights? Like different levels of a home. Where insulation is present, no insulation, false ceilings, etc. I would appreciate it!

[@gregmartin1757]

if there is insulation present use IC rated cans they are suitable for direct contact to insulation .

[@DrSocky]

So does the #10 screw requirement only mean it has to use 10/32 machine screws to affix the fan to the box? Or does it mean the box itself has to be attached to the joists using #10 wood screws?

[@SparkyChannel]

It means it has to use 10/32 machine screws to affix the fan to the box.

[@Jeff-Lawrence]

Hi Bill from Sparky Channel Still loving the video series you’re doing on 2020 National Electrical Code Way better than reading the book and your videos are great too I may even learn something Keep up the great work

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Jeff!

[@thejocelyn5994]

Hi Bill, it this episode: 2 Prong Receptacle Circuit Replaced by GFCI and Grounded Receptacles per 2020 NEC , You found with an electronic tool the most upstream outlet to connect your gfci to protect on the same circuit, all downstream one, since i don't have that tool what else can i use to find the most upstream one? thanks.

[@SparkyChannel]

HI! I did have a video on that on my old channel but I haven't been able to find it on my hard drive. I'll have to make another one. Thanks!

[@thejocelyn5994]

@@SparkyChannel thanks Bill, but i just need to know which other tool or other way i can use to find the most upstream outlet to install my gfci.Thanks

[@thejocelyn5994]

@@SparkyChannel i saw that video on your channel last week it's on there the new channel can you help me with that question ?

[@mikeceli]

GOOD Question!

[@thejocelyn5994]

@@mikeceli yes but no answer from a master electrician,it's wierd!!!!!!

[@joer9276]

If you only had one would you recommend the handbook or spiral bound NEC?

[@SparkyChannel]

The spiral bound NEC. I like that it sits flat. The handbook is a treasure as well though.

[@Hank_Amarillo]

what about a metal box on the hanger the blue box is on?

[@Joe-rw1bb]

Both of the metal boxes are approved. It’s pretty easy to figure. It has to say it no guessing

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Joe!

[@Joe-rw1bb]

@@SparkyChannel good channel

[@TheRetiredtech]

10 gauge screw?

[@Joe-rw1bb]

#10x32

[@colinstu]

Do you have a video about conductor derating?

[@SparkyChannel]

Not yet.

[@FlyEaglesFly19111]

Doesn't local jurisdiction always superceded NEC?

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes.

[@illestofdemall13]

I don't think the blue one is a fan box at all.

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Kris! Well it certainly isn't in 2020! Merry Christmas!

[@illestofdemall13]

@@SparkyChannel Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

[@lordgarth1]

@@SparkyChannel only 6 states use 2020 nec

[@Tony-lf4rr]

I did buy a blue one at Menard's. It's approved to support fan

[@sgt.hollowpoint6968]

@@Tony-lf4rr did it work

[@daveblackwell180]

Do any of these boxes make 2020 code as per rule 250.126?

[@GroovyMisfit]

What is the difference between the NEC code book and the NEC handbook?

[@davidssesanga3410]

NEC code book provides the requirements, rules of the game in construction and NEC handbook provides references .

[@MrTooTechnical]

Nice. How come u didn’t mention ugly’s code book??

[@jsncrso]

Ugly's is a guide, not the NEC code. There's nothing Ugly's would add to this video

[@SparkyChannel]

HI Dave! I should have. I usually do mention Ugly's at the end of NEC videos. The main thing to do with these however is just to read the inside of the boxes. LOL!

[@Austin8888able]

Thanks for the helpful video! By the way your voice sounds like Scotty Kilmers voice!

[@SparkyChannel]

LOL! Thanks!

[@garydudgeon]

Good explanation Sparky.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Gary!

[@samconrad4005]

I was looking at the box supports. Since, I could see the 2 metal boxes were ok. Thought you were trying to trick us. Nice video tho.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Sam!

[@tevman69]

Helpful, as usual. Thank you, Sir.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Ron!

[@robfahey1349]

Surprised you didn't include the pancake ceiling fan boxes, or the grey undermount joist ceiling fan boxes. The blue plastic boxes that are rated for ceiling fans are junk. The screws have a habit of breaking out, but then again even the blue ceiling fixture box you had has that same habit. Sometimes you go in for a simple fixture swap only to thing out the screw holding slots on them break as you take out a fixture either they get brittle or someone doesn't know what they are doing running an impact driver.

[@SparkyChannel]

I'm thinking of making another video to cover the things you mentioned. Thanks Ron!

[@dirtyrotten2648]

The4/0 bar hanger was never acceptable for fan support.

[@SparkyChannel]

Agreed.

[@MrStanwyck]

Good Morning Bill..... interesting video. I definitely prefer using metal boxes over plastic...

[@jsncrso]

The plastic boxes are only rated for lights

[@MrStanwyck]

@@jsncrso I meant in general that I prefer metal electrical boxes over the plastic ones. 👍. Happy Holidays!!!!!

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Bill, Happy Holidays to you as well!

[@canadiantrucker9574]

I imagine common sense would dictate that no one would use the plastic box for anything other than a ceiling light or pod light fixture

[@joeweatlu5169]

One would think common sense would dictate, but I've seen it done.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, and I like how the boxes are clearly marked now.

[@vicktorpatriot1430]

That blue one could be used for a smoke or carbon monoxide detector and that is about all these days

[@wim0104]

a lot of home-owners/flippers/handymen sin against this. get used to upgrading the outlet box, peeps!

[@wim0104]

I love the code that says new work has to be fanrated! such a pain to do afterwards.

[@SparkyChannel]

@@wim0104 Yes, I do too. The plastic ceiling boxes always made me nervous. The metal new work box is really sturdy.

[@KenPryor]

Very helpful, thanks Bill!

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Ken! Thanks so much!

[@heroknaderi]

Thanks for sharing this video is very helpful. I also notices metal boxes just the basic standard ones used for ceiling fans as well.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@Aepek]

I just love how all the NEC Codes are written with Metric measurements, & standard/freedom units are in parenthesis..... Wouldn’t it be nice if we converted over to metric for construction/trades long ago; instead of just the medical/sciences that use it daily today🙃. Would be interesting.....but I know this isn’t gonna happen 😏 Happy Holidays Bill🎄

[@SparkyChannel]

I think it'll happen eventually. Merry Christmas. 🎄

[@DJ_JSTREAM]

2020 codes don’t mean anything when your state is still using 2014 codes

[@russellstephan6844]

Funny! When I have attic access, I always fabricate the supports out of two 2x4s. One length spans the truss interior dimension. The second spans across the top of the truss. I always build them so if things get really bad, a 300 lb. adult could neck tie their way off this mortal coil. There's also another reason I build them that way too. It's so I have someplace to stand while up in the attic. I *know* I'm going to be up there a bunch over over the coming years...

[@KitchenerLeslie2]

Do you stack them both on end? If either one is on the flat, no good.

[@russellstephan6844]

Flat works just fine... If I can stand in the middle of it in the attic, there's all the proof you need -- 6'3", 250 lbs. There's also a spacer section of plywood involved in the sandwich to get the box nearly level with the interior of the drywall surface. If the shorter 2x4 of the sandwich is snug-fit between the truss span, it offers even more deflection prevention. I've also built laminations of plywood with cutouts for where vertical truss structures prevent an easy simple span of a 2x4. Once again, these over-build fan box mounting hangers serve double-duty as places to stand while in the attic.

[@whitetiger8652]

Thanks Sparky!

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks and Happy New Year!

[@rogeliocarranza6868]

Thank you very much for using NEC as a base of your explanation 👌🏼👏🏻👏🏻👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Rogelio!

[@court2379]

Why are the captions in Dutch? Isn't this a US English based channel?

[@SparkyChannel]

I don't know. I'm not getting Dutch captions on my screen.

[@court2379]

@@SparkyChannel Odd, I definitely don't know Dutch...

[@charlieday5]

Great series

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Charlie!

[@TheDannytre]

I only put ceiling fan metal boxes that are over killed! 😏 problem solved.

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent!

[@KitchenerLeslie2]

A plastic fan that allows you to screw the bracket into the joist above is stronger than ANY barbox type fan box though.

[@lucamarchese6187]

Do a 0-10v led or fluorescent wiring

[@SparkyChannel]

Good idea, I'll consider it.

[@tommycho9068]

Great video. Thank you.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Tommy!

[@jonathanmorales1921]

Thank you.

[@benjaminwilliams3568]

Bill Great video. I just watched a video of a handyman that did a ceiling fan install video how to. He did NOT state without mentioning properly How the saddle box was a fixed, that he screwed the ceiling fan ball mountinto. I'm thinking the saddle box was screwed into the ceiling joist, rather than a proper joist hanger. He deleted my video calling this out. I made another comment with the link to this video of yours which detail the necessary information. And told the guy Do Not Delete My comment ad it's very unprofessional on his part.

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Benjamin! I look at it more like everyone is learning, me included. If I do something wrong in a video, I have very professional viewers tell me about it in a matter-of-fact manner. Then I take the video down, fix the video, and put it back up. Or sometimes I can fix it by just deleting a small part with KZbin editor. That way I don't have to take the video down. But the main thing I do is try to get it correct the first time. As far as deleting comments, I have it set up so that certain swear words cause an automatic deletion. All a viewer has to do at that point is say what they want again but without swearing. Other than that, I really try to let viewers give their opinions.

[@benjaminwilliams3568]

@Sparky Channel Bill I'm a small biz IT Support and Service provider. Like you, I insure with my clients that want to know how to do this or that. I give concise detailed info to ensure their safety or the safety of the data they are manipulating to prevent loss of integrity. Regarding my comments to the handy guy, I addressed him humbly but with true detail regarding the proper state of California codes. I'm a sincere Follower of Jesus Christ, there's no use of improper language used.

[@SparkyChannel]

@@benjaminwilliams3568 That way everyone wins and the video creator learns something too!

[@brianharmeson3144]

The blue one is not a fan box. It is a light fixture box. Why even try to say it is? It doesn't meet any NEC fan box requirements. Not just 2020.

[@Krankie_V]

The point is to teach this information to those who don't already know it.

[@Sparky-if9sn]

When I grow up, I want to be as smart as Brian Harmeson

[@brianharmeson3144]

Everyone needs a goal to reach for. 👍

[@brianharmeson3144]

The point is the title says "which fan support boxes". It's not a fan support box to begin with. Why is it included at all? It doesn't make sense. It should say "which ceiling fixture boxes". Because that is what it is. It's not like 2020 outlawed plastic fixture boxes for fans all of a sudden. They have never been allowed to support fans. It's not a new 2020 requirement as the title implies.

[@Krankie_V]

@@brianharmeson3144 again.... That's something that might be obvious to you, but not everyone. This channel is watched by a wide variety of people, including those with little to no knowledge of any of this stuff. In the end, the video stated its not acceptable as a fan box, so there's no need to get hung up on a technicality. Alas, some people will bitch about literally anything.

[@mauroaparicio1855]

great videos

[@SparkyChannel]

Glad you like them!

[@robertochavez8196]

Thanks for your videos!! God bless u!!

[@SparkyChannel]

My pleasure, thanks, and GBY!

[@markmadlena6009]

A 2x6 block with no box so it goes flush with the ceiling and no wiggle

[@dalesworld1308]

Plastic box is just for a lightweight light fixture. I don't care what they write on it.

[@jefferywilson2280]

I just came to the comments to say I don't feel comfortable with any of these

[@SparkyChannel]

Ok, thanks!

[@alliedfederalelectriccorp3469]

Spoken as a scrutineer, not an inspector of subcode official.🙃

[@alliedfederalelectriccorp3469]

*or

[@shaundaniel8065]

The one on the blue 🔵🔵🔵🔵🔵💙💙🔵💙🔵🔵💙💙💙🔵💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙