Which is Greater? Episode 12: Blood Rage vs Rising Sun

[@CreakingShelves]

If you want some more detailed thoughts on Rising Sun than we could fit into the video, Matt wrote up a review on the blog: www.creakingshelves.com/rising-sun-review/

[@jettbriar6954]

I guess im randomly asking but does anyone know a method to get back into an instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me!

[@giovanniryder4057]

@Jett Briar instablaster ;)

[@jettbriar6954]

@Giovanni Ryder thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff now. Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.

[@jettbriar6954]

@Giovanni Ryder it did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D Thank you so much, you really help me out !

[@giovanniryder4057]

@Jett Briar glad I could help xD

[@steste4168]

Rising Sun over Blood Rage. Rising Sun is much more sofisticated and strategic in play, such a perfect game! Top game.

[@richardtrout]

Love the 'Which is Grater' series, great work at the fresh approach, fun delivery, and good analysis.

[@stefanopaolini6117]

There were some mistakes in the rules in Rising Sun, have you played it enough to judge it? I doubt, basing on the mistakes. And I am sure about it if you say there is no strategy in forming alliances, those are a huge way for balancing the game

[@g2828cc]

they are too busy trying to be SUSD to be competent

[@jessicaside]

Sagrada vs Azul would be interesting

[@samuelvimes7686]

I think I might prefer Rising Sun with full player count, but Blood Rage scales super well at a lower player count. Both games play different enough to justify having in your collection though. Blood Rage's minis are amazing. The ones from Rising Sun are even better

[@wellsy90]

Another excellent episode guys.

[@tiagoazevedosoares]

I love your videos guys. Another excelent one. Just one thing, the sound when you film from a wider perspective is really bad. Other than that, excelent! :)

[@CreakingShelves]

Yeah, we're still learning! Updated our set up again recently so hopefully that will improve things in the next episode.

[@LeeroyPorkins]

An interesting debate would be Blood Rage vs. Starship Samurai. I own and love both Blood Rage & Starship Samurai.

[@CreakingShelves]

Thanks for the suggestion! Although I'm not yet sure how to handle 'repeat' games in this format...

[@nekochen]

8:44 I think... Take Hostage is a paid mercenary work, that's why you bid for the service BEFORE battle takes place.

[@CreakingShelves]

You mean in the Rising Sun universe there are professional hostage takers!?

[@nekochen]

I'm sure hitman exists in every fantasy and every time period. As long as you pay the fee, they'll get the job done, including kidnapping. But ya, professional hostage taker, you can call them that lol!!

[@Tool1903]

keep it up boys, It is always really enjoyable watching your videos. I see the effort you put in. You should have at least 10k subs so dont know why

[@CreakingShelves]

Me neither! :P I can only assume my self promotion game isn't that strong. Plus we've only done 12 episodes so early days yet! If you're part of any board game Facebook groups or reddits you could give us a shout out? Makes a tremendous difference when it comes from a member of the public (as it were) instead of the creator. But only if you're comfortable doing this! It's great just getting positive feedback here! :D

[@Tool1903]

Sorry mate, i am just a family board gamer at home. Play mostly with the wifey. But If I was I would gladly promote you guys.

[@CreakingShelves]

Wrensch Dev no problem at all!

[@doganaykurtul8885]

Great review! Thanks a lot!

[@chrisw.1487]

How about a comparison of a couple of Rosenberg worker placements in season 3. Or maybe go all out and make a three way comparison between Agricola, Caverna and Feast for Odin?

[@CreakingShelves]

That's definitely one I want to do at some point. Season 3 is in production now so... maybe... possibly... Season 4?

[@jameshowlett1546]

Grater=greater, Ha, I JUST got that! 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@feuerhirn]

Even though I get where you‘re coming from I disagree. Alliances are great in my opinion. Surely I can join forces random. But I risk losing territory without fighting then. Simply because my ally has one dude more standing around. Alliances always have me the feeling I need to choose carefully. Having same goals (by having a good position against other clans), great. But if my ally is benefiting more than me, the alliance was a mistake. In the end only one clan will win.

[@DatcleanMochaJo]

You read Dale Carnegie too? Good choice

[@jessicaside]

Or maybe roll player vs sagrada?

[@CreakingShelves]

jessicaside I think there definitely needs to be some Sagrada in the next series, one way or the other!

[@oerthling]

Very amusing video - I enjoyed it. But the conclusion couldn't be more wrong. ;-) First a comparison between BR and RS compares apples to oranges - except that they are both DoaM games by Eric Lang. Compare BR to Inis - both DoaM games where your actions are based on a draft mechanic. And Inis does this much better than BR. RS is more subtle than BR. If somebody prefers BR because it's more easily accessible, needs less forethought and where your monsters are always just monstrous - that's fine. BR has its charms and even though I prefer Inis compared to BR, it has enough of its own charm that I eventually bought it too. But RS is a far more interesting and deep game than BR. Your powerful dragon is fickle and might get neutralized? Indeed, why did you acquire a greedy dragon that you can't afford to pay? Or at least bluff your opponent into thinking that s/he would waste money on bidding on hostage. That's exactly what makes RS MORE interesting, not less. A 5 power dragon could easily win battles by itself - if that was all what there is to it than people would just scramble to buy the dragon first and complain that the game is unbalanced. But that power, rightfully, comes at a price. That dragon might win you an important battle, or it could become an embarrassment - depending on the consequences of the decisions you make. And saying that this is a game about economics, but then also saying that money offered as part of a deal could never influence a decision is a weird contradiction. How often did you actually play RS? Sure, I would like to get all the war tokens, but I can't, so I have to weigh options to make the most if it. And I'll trade a region or some move so I can optimize my way ahead. Recommended thread on BGG: boardgamegeek.com/thread/1980663/evolution-our-rising-sun-meta-when-you-realize-jus

[@CreakingShelves]

Thanks for the great in depth thoughts and that bgg post was fascinating. It is good to know that RS has truly impressive depths to plumb! It sounds like they might well be deeper than BR, but I don't think I agree with you or the bgg poster that makes it better, because only a small proportion of players will ever be able to play at that level. In my opinion so many aspects of the design work against players reaching that level too. For example, the degree to which all players need to coordinate to counter powerful plays, the shear ridiculous amount of options, and even just the huge play length. I've played a good half a dozen times, but I never had a dedicated group all exploring it together like the poster. There were often newer players which throws the entire internal balance out of whack. I'm sure that's nowhere near enough to fully appreciate the game's nuances. I've certainly never come out of a game of RS feeling like I really played truly well, or fully being able to grasp why I was able to win or didn't quite make it this time. It often feels to me like a design that went far too broad and started to lose focus. I can see if you can fully grasp all the bits at once and see how they fit together you can bring the chaos under control, sidestep the cruelties, and bring out its very best. I feel like there is a point at which it is the players making the game work though, and that is where it starts to slip compared to BR for me. Also, I have never quite had the pleasure of it all coming together like that. So I have never been able to fall in love with it, or really even sufficiently enjoy it to truly justify the time and effort it demands, certainly not regularly, but it is so very close. Which puts it in this bizarrely compelling spot - I want to see what you and others see. But it never quite materialises.

[@oerthling]

@@CreakingShelves At the end of the day taste plays a role and certainly the players in the group. But IMHO it's not necessary to full grasp all the options at once to enjoy the game. I played a game of 6 with 4 noobs and fun was had. And 6 is a suboptimal number of players (best with 4-5 is the general consensus I think), but it was still grand. There's 9nly s9 many cards per season and during/after the first time it becomes clear that cards chain through the season, reducing the number of things one has to weigh after you picked a path (i.e. low honer vs combat superiority). And any game that has any depth and provides players with worthwhile options and is interactive involves countering another players dominance, so you can win instead. And it's actually not a very long game (depending on table talk or analysis paralysis of course). It has a fixed clock of 3 seasons with 10 actions each (3 of which are the quickly resolved Kami turns) and hardly any downtime. The war phases are potentially the longest, depending on how much one worries about an the bidding and the shopping during Train can sometimes take a bit - especially if new players have to read all the cards first - but everything else goes very quickly. It's not hard to get it done in 3 hours (though perhaps some folks consider that long - to me a long game takes 6+ hours :) ). But of course YMMV.

[@pgaboury]

This series is the greatest!

[@CreakingShelves]

Amazing! Thanks Philippe! :D

[@jonathanpickles2946]

@@CreakingShelves I dunno could you do an episode comparing No Pun Included to Shut up & Sit Down then take on the winner?

[@TabletopGamesBlog]

About time you got on the Bloodrage vs. Rising Sun bandwagon... ;)

[@CreakingShelves]

Tabletop Games Blog couldn't miss out on so perfect a pairing as this one!

[@TabletopGamesBlog]

I've never played Bloodrage, but I love, love, love Rising Sun - just as much as I love, love, love Scythe. Not sure what it is about those two games, but I reckon the mix of minis and giant map, plus the strategy element make those two games great for me.

[@yuarthur455]

rising sun vs mysthea ?

[@CreakingShelves]

Not heard of Mysthea! Good game?

[@hardstyle_mmayt1699]

Blood rage seems a little boring. Rising sun is difficult to learn in the beginning but plays very well and is way more strategic. IMO

[@CreakingShelves]

Rising Sun is more strategic, and Blood Rage more tactical, but we get so much fun out of BR.

[@SeoDragon117]

Which is Greater? Episode 1: Creaking Shelves Vs Shut Up and Sit Down.....

[@jonathanpickles2946]

Such clean cut vikings

[@jacobwilliams3206]

WHAT?!?!?! No mention of how inaccessible the card drafting is in Blood Rage? Experienced players will blow away newbies just because they know what combos are possible. Rising Sun suffers a lot less on this front. I'm sorry guys, but you guys are just wrong. Rising Sun is the FAAARRR superior game. Anyway, another good video. And how properly British of you guys to have 6 episode seasons!!!

[@CreakingShelves]

jacob williams I guess I never found the card drafting in Blood Rage too obtuse but you're right, thanks for mentioning it! I also havent played with super experienced players so perhaps haven't been on the receiving end of the worst it has to offer! Glad you still enjoyed the video even if the wrong game won!

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

It's just a matter of showing all the cards of each age before starting the draft. Then they'll have enough information. Yes, more experienced players will be more capable of evaluating the cards and their combinations, but still it won't be so uneven that it stops being fun to the newbie player hehe

[@DihColorado]

weak argument

[@KelRiever]

Absolutely not. Rising Sun is not worse than Blood Rage either. People need to separate what they personally like from what's 'better'. Blood Rage is a drafting game. Rising Sun is a game about playing the political cards (stolen from Puerto Rico, a great game as far as I'm concerned). You'll like one game or the other better depending on what you prefer, not because of some 'absolute' I happen to like Blood Rage better, but our group plays both and we like both for different reasons, that's all.

[@MuchachoC]

I also find Rising Sun to be quite noob friendly. Even if the noob lacks negotiation skills, the other players will compete for alliance with the noob (for their own advantage, and to prevent the other players from doing so). This way the noob can end with resources and very good alliances (that he didn't even had to negotiate, in the first place). If a more experienced player orients correctly (and not selfishly) the noob in the 1st season (specially regarding the last season bonus cards), the noob has a real chance of winning the game in the end, because the more experienced players will be fighting each other I didn't even mentioned the amount of interaction between players that happens during the game. Yes, you can bribe and intimidate (allies and foes) to get into an alliance, or to have a mandate you want played. Ronin tokens and 2-4 coins are enough of a bribe to pretty much anyone, since coins are so important in the war phase Yes, Rising Sun has that 'fly under the radar' quirk to win that annoys me a little, but I would not consider it a flaw since it's part of the game argumenting and convincing others that it's not you who is winning the game. It's kind of an essential think to the game and if you were extremely lucky/skilled and finished the first season very far ahead on points (like using the Fox Clan Righteousness/Sepukku strategy) everyone will probably gang on you the rest of the game and you can have a miserable time trying to win 4v1, but it will depend if you can keep at least part of your momentum on the 2nd season, or if some other player gets very far ahead after 2nd season I didn't play Blood Rage yet but I think it's very hard for it to be better than RS, since it has so much less complexity and interaction between players

[@CamilleDeveveraux]

Worst sound ever.

[@CreakingShelves]

Yeah, good audio is hard. Our latest Which is Greaters are (generally) quite a bit better