Which LEICA Wins? Leica M11P vs Leica M3-- is the M11P worth the Money? Digital vs Film in 2024!

[@luisbustamante9869]

Apologies for an orange compared with the apples. The Fuji X-Pro 1 (16MP!) with 35mm and 23mm Fujicrons is an interesting comparison. The image quality is about halfway between the M3 and the M11, with a unique graininess which is the closest to film that I've seen. The image is less harsh that that of the M11 and the grain more subtle than film, compared with the great images on this video. At 450gm the body is lighter than both Leicas and the OVF shows a more usable frame, changing the magnification when swapping lenses. The frame is as uncluttered as that of my M2 with the 50mm lens. The Fuji body sells s/h for around £400 in the UK and the lenses £250 a pop, making it a great outfit for under 1K a tenth of the M11 body price.

[@Raf_9000]

Started following two months ago and I’ve been loving watching your video! Very informative :)

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Thank you!!

[@CalumetVideo]

M3 with the 50mm cron.

[@vinylisland6386]

In your video prefer the M11 files, which I didn't think I would, but like you I also love to use vintage lenses on my M10M and M11M and they work magnificently.

[@juanimal]

I have just bought a 1960' M3 SS and a 1959' Summicron M 50mm Rigid in a very very good condition, and that combo is one of the most beautiful piece of art I've ever seen. I'm soooo satisfied and happy to make that choice and can't wait to go and shoot it. Long life to film.

[@90sPunkRockCovers]

Great video. Love both my M3 and M11P but I agree about the joy you get when shooting with the M3, built like a tank and the extra magnification just makes it a breeze to focus. Cheers 🥃

[@gfeucht]

Fantastic comparison and super informative. I've got one thing I disagree about: The 3-5 (or 7) year lifespan of the M11. I'm still rocking my M240 that I bought over 10 years ago. And at that point it had been out for 2 years. It's still great. The only issue (and this is a real issue) is that the batteries are discontinued so I had to buy my third (and final) battery from a foreign shop that had a couple left. But besides that, I don't expect to see my M240 kick the bucket anytime soon. Just because a new model comes out with more megapixels and better high ISO doesn't mean my camera produces any worse images than it did when I got it. If that were true, I'd throw away all my Tri-X because of Tmax... ...because I also have an M3 from 1959 as well as an MP... I love film as well.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

The 3-5 is to keep up with technology- yes they do last longer but are their repair options beyond 7-10 years- especially big ones like a sensor--

[@ianfleming4356]

I’d go with M3 every time

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Exactly!

[@superkrell]

I`ve shot film for many years with a Nikon F2 and just recently went digital with the Leica MD 262 and Summicron Rigid. Sometimes I prefer film and sometimes digital. They are both beautiful but different...!

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Yep! Choice is good!

[@bernardlesperance742]

Wholeheartedly agree with your point about the longevity of digital Ms. Have been arguing that point for a long time and it is the main reason I have not bought a digital M, factoring in their cost. If they were much less expensive, I could rationalize getting one even with its limited lifespan. But they're not, and I can't. So, for digital photography I'm 'forced' to use much more reasonably priced DSLRs.

[@NineVoltDigitalCinema]

Great video! I’ve carried the M10-D daily for a few years now, and totally loved it, but lately I’ve been craving an M11 Monochrom. I’m not a big fan of some of the design changes in the M11 generation though, so thought maybe a film M could scratch that itch for me. Seeing the amazing image quality you achieved with the M3 has me convinced. Thank you for this in-depth comparison.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

You are very welcome.

[@gobgobcachoo]

Man. Foma 100 in rodinal 50+1 looks spectacular. Ill have to give that combo a try.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Awesome combo!

[@vangstr]

Love this video and the content! Well said about Leica should create an M that can just switch out the sensor and keep the body for life.

[@Markybug-Keira-Cody]

Great video, even better shirt 👍🏻😎

[@andytheghosthunter]

Sod the cameras and film.....I want that shirt!!!!😲

[@trabouliste1037]

The M3 would fit someone’s photographic needs the next 50 years. For immediate needs a smartphone is the best choice.

[@mikede2464]

"Micro detail" is a term I first heard in this video that best describes what I dislike most about my Canon RF lenses: excessive "micro detail". To my eye, the last thing I want in my images is excessive micro detail-especially portraits. Thanks for the video.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

You are very welxome

[@garywebb5912]

Great comparison! I own an M10-P and an M4-2 on which I shoot mostly Delta 400 or HP5, for me the film wins out, I just prefer the look, but digital is more convenient sometimes and so both have there place. Currently I shoot more film though.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Love the look of film!

[@baylin95]

Very good video... well done!!

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Thank you!

[@mynewcolour]

Great teamwork :)

[@chriscard6544]

Im a film photographer but in this test, I prefer the M11P render, I would like to see the same but with t-max 100 in D76 stock

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

I did the the first video in Fomapan 100 and Rodinal- Tmax 100 and D76 are not my favorite combo- Caffenol CL and Tmax tho is beautiful

[@chriscard6544]

@@FIGITALREVOLUTION interesting with Caffenol

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

@ amazing with the CL

[@superkrell]

That`s exactly why I use the vintage Leica 50mm Summicron Rigid with the MD 262...!

[@pd1jdw630]

Erm, we got at the history line where film is beautiful. Digital is fast and convenient. That M3 is gonna last another 70 years. And if not, it can be repaired. That .9 glass though. Those are new car prices. But still useable in 70 years. Against the M11 like you said. It would be nice if it can have a point to own one in let’s say 10 years from now. Even though I feel, sensors are becoming adequately large and dense that it’s about the same as film. Even if it’s foma developed in rodinal. I don’t know, I think we’re at the tipping point where digital is running up to film and I think this m11 could still be viable in 20 years for the prosumer.

[@dominiquepierre-nina4581]

Well, in my opinion the 50mm Rigid on the 11p or M3 is superb the f2 gives it more life and pop. I own the 50m Rigid and love it. I have never understood the reason behind a .95. The M3 will surpass any M to come. I own a few M's but the M3 is it for me.

[@rogerwalker3201]

I like the film and M-3 combos better than the M-11P and new glass.

[@devroombagchus7460]

The 11 - P comes with the high cost Leica unpredictable electronics and a fixed display. Very good point: durability!

[@averywagg1839]

I have an M4 and an M11 and with about half of my work being B&W. I use them almost interchangeably. Most of my work is street..

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Nice! I had several M4’s over the years- amazing camera!

[@johnkasianowicz6536]

I shoot with film and digital cameras and enjoy both media. Your bias for the look with film may be due to your past experience with it. I tend to that bias a bit too because I grew up with B&W film photography (it helped pay for my college tuition). In your first comparison, you could have post-processed the digital image. Also, there are ways to add grain to digital images, if you really want that artifact in your photos. Lastly, you should have compared the M3 to an M11 Monochrom. I’m not sure where you got the 8 year lifespan for an M11. I have 20 year old Nikon DSLRs that are still fully functional. In addition, while CLAs (e.g., rangefinder alignment) are part of Leica’s service, the company doesn’t make the sensors used in their digital cameras. It would therefore be unrealistic to suggest that Leica be able to replace sensors after a decade or so.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

There will be a post processing image and a color video soon- I don’t have access to the new Monochrome so that is not possible. The life span is based on technology advances and can the sensor be replaced. My M9P and original monochrome are now paper weights due to corrosion. Assuming that Leica or any maker will replace the sensor past 8-10 years is a big chance to take. I also have digital cameras that are old and still work but it was one that cost almost $10K I want to know that it can be fixed for at least 10-15 years- Contax did this when the discontinued their MF camera and it was much appreciated.

[@johnkasianowicz6536]

@@FIGITALREVOLUTION Leica had a limited sensor replacement offer a while ago (while their sensor stock lasted) and IIRC, they offered a trade-in for a newer version camera when they ran out of sensors, AFAIK, the CMOS sensors are not susceptible to corrosion. Even if a digital camera only lasts 10 to 15 years, the sheer number of photos one could take with it far exceeds what one could do with a film camera. That lowers the cost per photo (film and its development costs money beyond the price of the camera) and could help one improve at photography.

[@CiderGuy]

Really enjoyed that Stephen, many thanks. M3 all day long. I know many rave about the Noc but I’d much rather have the rigid Cron .. even if I could afford a Nocti. A question for you, I use the same combo as you for my low iso Leica film work but you rated yours at EI 80. what time do you use for that out of interest? I always dev at 100 for 9 mins in Rod 1/50.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

I would use like 8 minutes for 64/80…

[@CiderGuy]

@@FIGITALREVOLUTIONWill give that a try, many thanks. 👍

[@erichstocker8358]

Given the "grain enhancing" nature of Rodinol I am surprised how good the Formapan 100 images are. While I use your suggested adding of a bit of Rodinol to my HC110 for semi-stand development, on a whole I don't use that developer because I'm not a big fan of grain. One of the reasons that Kodak Tech Pan was my favorite B&W film. Having said that I admire the results you got with the film/developer. The film holds up very well when compared with the M11-P. Would have been interesting to use the M11 Monochrome and compare to B&W film. I use my Leica M type 240 as my main digital camera. Even though it is very old it still works beautifully.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

My M9P has the corrosion issue and couldn’t be fixed so I avoided big digital $$$ investments until someone - let’s say LEICA makes an upgrade or extended maintenance program possible. Trick to Rodinal is never process above 68F, always agitate with slow inversions and don’t over develop the film--

[@algranoconPablo]

how does the rigid compared to the last version of the elmar 50mm?

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

I have not done a side by side but the rigid summicron has always been a legendary lens in many reviews

[@reflexlin]

If you only compare B&W photos then it is more making sense to use M11 Monochrome vs. m3. I would be very interested to see how colour film’s cameras vs. M11P.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

That post is coming soon! Will be doing color side by side as well as a look at a few emulation software packages that I think do a pretty good job with digital files….

[@johnkasianowicz6536]

I questioned that as well.

[@tedcrosby9361]

Sharpness and background blur is only a tiny part of what photography is about

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

I would argue that is way way down the list and storytelling is at the top BUT viewers want that info as well-

[@JenHamon]

I think an M11P could go for 10 years pretty easily. Lots of people still shoot M240's and the main drawbacks of them are low light ISO performance and size/weight being a little chunky in the hands. But I agree it's never going to hold a candle to the longevity of mechanical cameras, assuming film and chemistry continues to be produced.

[@DessieTots]

You can be safe in the knowledge that the M3 won’t develop any electrical faults.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Yes indeed!

[@rogerwalker3201]

Your last statement gave it away. The depth of field is sooooo shallow, that you needed to take multiple shots to get an acceptable image. I, myself don’t think that lens is worth that much money.

[@ismadelro]

Interesante comparativa, felicidades! 👍🏻 Estoy bastante de acuerdo con los argumentos a favor de la M3 pero... De donde sale la info sobre la duración de la M11? 8 años? Yo tengo una M8 funcionando perfectamente en 2024, no me parece realista esa afirmación.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

If they camera cannot be maintained, fixed by the maker with a new working sensor then it has no real longevity if something goes wrong- my M9P had sensor corrosion and Leica declared it a paper weight- I would like camera companies to commit to something like 15 years for maintenance and parts- this was common in Analog and early electronic film cameras- my contax had a 15 year maintenance window when they stopped producing it-

[@ismadelro]

@@FIGITALREVOLUTION Ok... Tú tendrás más datos sobre casos concretos en los que tras 8 años se hayan dejado de dar mantenimiento a sensores CMOS. No tengo suficiente información para rebatir.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

If you look at Leica Forums or other sites there are a lot of discussion on this problem- all CCD Leicas can’t have a sensor fix and my understanding is that most of the CMOS sensors can be replaced - maybe- but is over $2500 and a few months- and even then the comments are mixed.

[@ismadelro]

​@@FIGITALREVOLUTION ok

[@zhangchenlin7746]

what about color❤

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

That video is coming in about 5 days-- stay tuned!

[@SeanPatrickBurgess]

Great video, and I agree with you on almost every point. Only thing I'd say about the idea that a digital Leica has a short lifespan is that they're definitely good for more than 5-8 years. I recently bought an M-P Type 262 that's already 10 years old (mainly because I couldn't afford a newer model...), but I expect to get at least another 10 years out of it. And the M8 and M9 models are even older and they absolutely have achieved cult status.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

All CCD Leicas have sensors that can not be serviced- My M9P died from corrosion and is a Leica Paper Weight 😂 For me it’s all about long term commitment to service- Leica should embrace 10-15 year service agreements with all their digital cameras- that would solve a lot of reservations many people including me have.

[@SeanPatrickBurgess]

@@FIGITALREVOLUTION I absolutely agree. I'd probably be more inclined to step up to a new model if I had a service agreement to fall back on. Upgradable sensors would be freaking brilliant. As much as we love the image quality, I think it's fair to say most Leica users are just as attached to the physical experience. Being able to keep an M body I had broken in myself and upgrade the internals would be brilliant. As unique as the colors are, I wouldn't touch one of the CCD models, even if the sensor had been replaced. Thankfully there are ways to get into Leica on the cheap, like you suggested with the vintage glass. Even applies to the bodies too though. I went for an M5, mostly because I prefer the handling of the camera, but also because they're cheaper than M6s. I use and SL (Type 601) for work. Upgraded to an SL-2S at one point, but ended up going back to the SL because I liked the button layout better and because I could afford to have a main and backup body for the same price.

[@CreativeLeadershipwithDaniel]

Bro just talked me off the ledge and I'm not selling my MP for an M11P : D

[@CreativeLeadershipwithDaniel]

Also, I have never given Fomapan a shot. Do you have a video on how you use and develop it in Rodinal?

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

There is a video from like 2 years go-

[@johnyoung1606]

I have a 35 f2.8 Sumi. lens that came with My M3... It came with the goggles... I guess what My question is "how do You compose the photo in Your M3" ??? My understanding,, there is no 35 frame lines in the M3.... Thanks :)

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Well I could have used an aux viewfinder but I don’t have a 35mm one so I composed with the M11 and then looked at the frame lines before shifting to the M3 and just set the 50mm there to match the M11 and shot away- not an elegant solution but worked for this test image. I use to have the 35mm lens you have - it is quite nice indeed!

[@johnyoung1606]

@@FIGITALREVOLUTION Thanks :)

[@streetwalkerphoto]

No one thinks the M11 will still be in use in 70 years

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Exactly

[@johnyoung1606]

Why do You say 3 to 5years for the M11??

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Just based on Leicas upgrade time line and when I had my M9P and original Monochrome there were sensor issues at about 5 years- not sure if the new sensors are better in that regards- wouldn’t it be nice to just send in your body every years for a sensor upgrade and CLA- for me it would make the cost more palatable

[@johnyoung1606]

@@FIGITALREVOLUTION Some sensors are luved for what they do.... But I can see that changing them out might be desireable (If the price is reasonable) I have an X-Vario and I still like n use It :) :)

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

The technology is less fleeting today than say a decade ago just with camera makers would have an extended support cycle for their digital systems so they could be more of a legacy system- maybe Leica will consider it

[@rafibenatar2519]

Agree it’s $20k all together lol

[@WhoIsSerafin]

Your explanation is why I'll never spend that kind of money on a digital camera and use m4/3. It's just not that much better for that much more money and a limited short life span.

[@rafibenatar2519]

M11 trust me 👌🏻

[@thevoiceman6192]

That's comparing apples to Oranges. That's comparing a manual film camera to an autofocus film camera. Or digital paintings to Traditional paintings. You compare digital dslr to a mirrorless would be more of a comparison.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

Um, no.

[@thevoiceman6192]

@@FIGITALREVOLUTION Um Yes. Because the digitals would be photoshopped to look like film anyway or film simulation software.

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

And I mentioned that in the video-- there will be a follow up looking at some new emulation software using these files in the near future.

[@thevoiceman6192]

@@FIGITALREVOLUTION Why not just compare the film images to the digital images without post processing,?

[@FIGITALREVOLUTION]

There is no post processing in this video