Which Saison Yeast Should I Use? EP34

[@knightonwarbeck1969]

1.014 is high for a Saison. Try strains from Wallonia (Belgium) offered via White Labs. I had the immense pleasure of drinking Saison in Wallonia when I lived in Mons, Belgium. Also, use Saaz or Tettnanger to really work with the yeast to give a WOW factor to your Saisons (I know this wasn't the focus of your video). Excellent video showcasing/comparing how different yeast impart different flavours to the same base beer. Now, repeat with 4-6 or 8 Saison yeast strains from White Labs with FG of 1.008-ish using Saaz. Saison is still a "secret gem" of a style - few know of or have drank a Saison - due to us being spoiled by so many great styles and incredible modern day hops. Great video. Thanks so much!

[@TheApartmentBrewer]

Gorgeous looking saisons - love the lineup of yeasts here. One thing I would suggest is trying to make your saisons drier. That's the way I like mine but I think it helps make the spice and floral notes pop more, I would probably nix the dextrine malt but again that's my opinion. Saisons can be whatever you want pretty much lol. Cheers!

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Thanks man! That’s a great point. I noticed during editing that I used a water profile for a dry beer and then mashed at 152 🤷🏼‍♂️ I definitely need to drop that down to like 148 or so. Also good point about the dextrine. Thanks man!

[@BrewCabin]

I agree! I dry out my Saisons and ferment on the warm side. Lower mash temp for sure! Maybe an enzyme? I recently made a session saison that was one of my favs. I even added black pepper to it.

[@MinnesotaFats]

@@BrewCabin what yeast did you use? What are some of your favorite saisons you can buy at the store? Seeing if our tastes are similar. Loved your NEIPA by the way! I made a batch just like yours and that crazy song of yours was in my head when I drank it :). IT TASTES LIKE A JUICE

[@BrewCabin]

@@MinnesotaFats Oh that's a good question. I used WLP550 from White Labs. It's a standard belgian ale strain. I actually just made another one a few weeks ago. Added two ounces of dried sweet orange peel and fermented it at 75F with a quasi open fermention (AKA leaving the lid off for a few days). I'm carbing it up now and getting it super fizzy. Needs a few weeks to mellow though. I went more on the bitter side with hops. As for what I like, I tend to lean towards sour saisons nowadays, but pretty much any saison is good for me.

[@TheBruSho]

Really enjoying this experiments. Keep em coming!

[@jasperb6191]

That template is super clutch bro! Great content as usual!

[@MalibaFox]

The trick does seem to be to ferment these warm to stress the yeast into throwing the right flavours. It should also finish very low FG and be very drinkable. Lallemand also released a farmhouse yeast but it's not diastatic. M29 also seems an option. Some blend yeasts including Kviek, or BE-134/T-58.

[@elidanceali]

Thanks for the note at the end re labelling! They look great - and better than what I would have expected from a home printer. Thanks dude!

[@jaggersbrewingco]

Good job! I cant wait to see what else you come up with for the series. I am currently waiting on my Belle Saison, and Coast to Coast to finish up so I can compare it to the Hot Kveik I did. I also just finished up Rustic, Lithuanian Farmhouse, and Saisonstein comparison. if you haven't tried Saisonstein I bet you would like it!

[@jaggersbrewingco]

Hey also if you don't mind what abv did these come in at? My Rustic, Saisonstein, and Lithuanian came in at a finishing gravity of 1.000 for a 7.22% abv.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Awesome saisonstein it is! Sounds like you’ve done quite a bit of experimenting! These beers came in right at 6%

[@jaggersbrewingco]

@@HopsANDgnarly Cool, I hope you really enjoy it the next go around.

[@Zomby__]

What I've enjoyed recently for saisons is using the same yeast but vary the cereal grains. My go to now is rye and spelt, but I've also tried triticale and have one fermenting now with malted corn. I tend to ferment in the low to mid 70s. I open ferment my saisons in a SS Brewtech bucket with only a cheese cloth to cover until krausen starts to fall (I haven't done any side by sides, but figured increase oxygen exposure during active fermentation cant hurt). I've also had good success keg conditioning my saisons (again, I have not done a side by side to compare with a force carb, but I enjoy the results).

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Great ideas! I definitely need to try spelt and keg conditioning would be fun to test

[@CTP-bbq-HundHutte]

Great experiment. And I love that glass ware

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Thank you! 🍻

[@phil_the_human]

Really cool comparison! Just used Wyeast 3711 and I didn't understand how people used "bubblegum" as a positive flavor note until I sampled mine. I'm definitely really interested in more saison info, might be cool to do a brett saison in the future.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Thanks man! A Brett saison definitely needs to happen! The bubblegum thing is interesting (almost off putting) at first but then you kinda crave it lol

[@SuperRS2008]

Another cracking video. I'm so jealous of your canning and labeling setup, I'd love to do the same in the future...once I've saved up enough monies!

[@jonthebeau4653]

I agree with others sentiment that saison needs to be dry. Mash low, drop the dextrin malt. I like a fairly decent % of flaked rye to help with a little body in the dry beer and help bolster the spicy note that I enjoy in a saison. My recipe is 72% pilsner, 15% flaked rye, 10% white wheat and 3% acidulated for ph correction. I have used all of the yeasts in your experiment and prefer Rustic by a big margin. Personally I do not like any dry saison strain or the French strains. I like a little tart and a little funky for my saison and my new go to is Philly Sour for 3-4 days then White Labs American Farmhouse Blend to finish. If I want a clean saison you can't beat the DuPont strains fermented warm. Great video as always

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Man Philly sour then rustic sounds awesome! I’m gonna have to try that! And this recipe sounds great!

[@19AKS58]

Great video. Nice logos with canning. I brewed a 5 gallon batch with Fermentis BE-134 and got a healthy fermentation, but NOT a Saison at all. It was a great clone of Chimay Red Label, by accident. I am in the process of brewing a 5 gallon batch of a wild-Saison using bottle dregs from a few farmhouse ales and also Belgian Gueze.

[@simaanshini4859]

Thanks for your channel …. Definitely have learned lots from ya My favorite style for sure is saison and have been chasing the perfect recipe for a while and I may have made something super special Simple grain bill of 13.5 lbs gateway winded Belgian Pilsner 75 minute cook and 60 minute boil 122 15 minutes 153 60 minutes 1.75 Styrian goldings (Celia)@60 1 oz riwaka @ 5 2 oz strata dry hop 4 days No mash out Gelatin as clarifier 1/2 teaspoon in 1/4 oz water dissolved 3 teaspoons amylase added to water with salt additions 5 psi fermentation gradually reaching 5 as activity starts then ramping down to 1 as activity slows 3711 wyeast and let it run to where it wants temperature wise …highest activity at 85 degrees and pitched at 74 …house temp 74 Basically tastes like delirium tremens…dry with pear banana and bubblegum to balance it…was chasing DuPont but accidentally made a saison version of tremens Enjoy! OG 1.053 FG 1.000

[@intothenightrecords9954]

Saison is one of my favorite styles to brew, mainly due to the creativity I can have with them! My best tips on the style is 85% pilsner, 10% wheat (i prefer torrified or flaked) and 5% rye (flaked). 30ibus of saaz , I usually do a flameout addition of .25oz/gallon of saaz as well. I like switching it up with yeasts, but 3724 is my favorite by far. Ferment hot and fast, I push mine to as close to 90f as I can go with my little heat wrap!

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Ooo hot and fast fermentation! I’m gonna try that! So far they’ve all been at room temp

[@enobale]

All of this!

[@enobale]

Open Fermentation too! That really helps. Put a brew bag over the top of your fermenter (to keep bugs out and such) and when the krausen falls cover it up. That will push the Rustic (Dupont strain) to it's limits.

[@intothenightrecords9954]

@@enobale oh duh, I forgot to mention that! Yes, I also open ferment!

[@andrewpbarry]

My favorite Saison yeast is Omega oyl-500, which is a blend of french saison (wyeast 3711) and belgian saison (wyeast 3724). It gives enough of the classic flavors, but a bit of extra pepper notes, and is not so tempermental to work with. That said, I find saison to be very hard to repeat the exact same beer twice. Not only because it's so tempting to tweak something here or there, but also the style just seems to drift, even when I do things the same.

[@andrewpbarry]

Saison also lends itself to co-pitching a brett strain. bruxellensis or claussenii if you can wait a few months

[@HopsANDgnarly]

A Brett saison definitely needs to happen! I’m interested in trying this blend - sounds perfect for what I like in a Saison. And I agree about repeating the same beer. That should be a video. It’s hard for any style but especially something like saison

[@jaggersbrewingco]

I agree OLY500 is great! I just brewed three like this comparing OLY 500 Saisonstein, Rustic, and OYL 033 Lithuanian Farmhouse.

[@andrewpbarry]

@@HopsANDgnarly I think the principle applies to a lot of cases- mix a stable workhorse with something more exciting. I’ve been known to throw in some 34/70 with a liquid lager yeast, just to be sure everything cleans up nice.

[@m4sk3dm4n]

@@HopsANDgnarly I like pitching brett when it's at .004 from terminal gravity and pitch the brett straight into the bottles, it does some magical things under pressure in a small vessel that it doesn't do when there isn't any pressure or in a larger fermentation vessel.

[@familybjornestrand4548]

My best Saisons have been the drier ones. I've achieved this in different ways but looking back at my notes the best ones have included around 1/2 lb of table sugar and I've follow the fermentation daily ramping the temp gradually to squeeze as much out of the yeast as I can. Finishing on a temp of 26C. This high finishing ferm temp helps to dry out and develop more farmhouse aromas. Carbonation level isn't mentioned in the vids but this can really change the flavour profile. Saisons want to be highly carbonated!! Have you thought about trying natural carbonation in the bottle? Just a thought, saison was one of the first styles I brewed and for that reason I sort of associate it with yeast in the bottom of the bottle. Could be an interesting comparison?

[@jacksw02]

I agree 100% with this. The daily ramping, especially with Wyeast 3711 FRENCH SAISON, is critical and helps with phenol and ester production along with drying out the beer.

[@holeevukk4134]

I Made a Saison with Mangrove Jacks dryeast auf It came pretty close to the dupont i think

[@henzik]

My Belle Saison always hits a gravity of 1.002-1.004. Starting at 1.062. It is diastatic so it will convert complex sugars and just keep on going.

[@Ritzoid]

Brew by James Morton suggests using a fermentation temperature ramp for saison (18-20C start to add Belgian style esters then moving up to ~30C to keep more CO2 out of solution allowing the yeast to fully attenuate). Add an additional Champagne yeast in a secondary for dryness. A saison FG is typically low

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Good advice! I'll try ramping the temps up!

[@CascadesHomebrew]

I have been digging into Saison lately. It is a complex beer to brew for being so dirt simple. My batches so far have been primarily Pils + Rye. I had sugar in some early batches, used Biscuit in a recent batch, will probably use an Aromatic or Munich in the future. I picked up some Spelt to try in place of the Rye. Omega Saisonstein and WLP565 have made great Saisons. I just did a trial with WLP565 vs Belle and my response was about like yours. I wish there were some good dry yeast. BE-134 sounds a bit more Trappist than Saison. I tend to pitch at 68F and let them climb into the upper 70's during active fermentation, then hold them there to finish.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Spelt sounds like it’d be good to try and I always like rye when I find them around town. I think temperature could be key

[@m4sk3dm4n]

My saison go to's are varying the adjunct malts (Rye, Triticale, Spelt, Raw Wheat, etc), I only ferment with Saison Parfait after doing a bunch of yeast trials and my favorite performer by far is Bootleg's Saison Parfait yeast, Omega Saisonstien's Monster comes close 2nd for me. I have vials of other strains in my yeast stash but I don't use them as much as those 2. I wash my Saison Parfait yeast every batch and repitch it and it gets better with each batch. I do the open fermentation for the first 48-72hr (once krausen has started to settle I put the lid on) in my SS Brewbucket. I do both keg and bottle condition (in 500ml green or brown bottles) my saisons. I follow the Bob Sylvester method from St. Somewhere Brewing which produces around 4 vols of CO2, which I think is the perfect amount for saisons. I also like to use a high amount of low AA hops, it produces nice flavors. The main key to me is the keg/bottle conditioning over force carbonating this style. Also FG at or within 4 points of 1.000 is best.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

This is gold! Thank you! I gotta try parfait

[@FermentationAdventures]

The only thing I could add would be to not use Belle Saison.. but looks like you figured that out. Good stuff, Cheers!

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Yea I wasn’t a big fan. Someone else mentioned they like it but that might be my last go with it

[@bbqribz570]

I love saisons and I've brewed a bunch. I've found i like French saison yeast most. Mangrove jacks and omega-026 are awesome. I find they play with fruitier american and southern hemisphere hops really well, but i still bitter with either Saaz or Magnum. Raw wheat was another big discovery, Harder to work with but i really like the flavor and body.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Raw wheat sounds fun! I’d also be interested in trying the mangrove jacks. What temp do you usually go with?

[@bbqribz570]

@@HopsANDgnarlyI have two main profiles i go between depending on the style. For a traditional light body and dry finish: 122f for a 20 min protein rest, then 148f for 30 mins. Then a 10 min mash out at 170. For a softer, rounder mouthfeel that holds up to higher hop rates, I just do a straight 60 min mash at 150f.

[@benjaminmalone1428]

I was very surprised when you said you fg was 1.014. That seems really high to me. All the best saisons I’ve had have been super dry. I try to go as low as possible with my fg. I just finished a batch that’s 1.000

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Totally agree I need to get that way down!

[@HOMEBREW4LIFE]

I don't know Sh$%^T either, cheers!

[@HopsANDgnarly]

😂🍻

[@Jango1989]

So much to choose from! Just to make your life worse, have you considered capturing some wild Bret? All my saisons have been made from wild Bret/saccharomyces mixes. In true farmhouse style! But that's a huge rabbit hole to delve into. Good luck finding your yeast. Can't wait to see what you choose 🍻

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Brett Saison needs to happen and wild/local captures would be insane! I’d love to try that! I’ve tried wild lambic fermentations but it’d be even cooler to find a Brett strain

[@paulb9478]

You didn't mention your fermentation temps. Just varying this will give u huge differences in the flavour you get from the yeast. You FG also seems high for saison yeasts

[@HopsANDgnarly]

You’re absolutely right! I need to mash lower and ferment higher

[@enobale]

I would really try different generations of yeast. Take the yeast from the Rustic, wash it, and brew it again. You will start noticing differences. From there I would also start blending yeast to get a 'house' yeast. I've taken bottle dregs of Le Petite Prince by Jester King and built up some yeast to add to my house yeast blend. Checkout "saison bière de garde & farmhouse ale appreciation society" on facebook for a lot of info! This video makes me want to revisit my saisons!

[@HopsANDgnarly]

I like the idea of trying multiple generations! Thanks!

[@VytautasMockus]

Will sound weird, but my best saisons were brewed with no water adjustments, just plain tap water and campden. And Saaz everywhere.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Totally believe it. And Saaz for sure!

[@goodolarchie]

Why spend money and add oxidation with cans when you had them kegged right there in the brew house? Just curious

[@HopsANDgnarly]

It’s a throughput thing for me right now. I’m brewing so much that usually I need the keg space. Maybe I need a bigger kegerator

[@kevinssilentfishing7292]

I used Bootleg Biology in the last Saison I brewed. Fantastic yeast

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Let’s try it!

[@leehaseley7608]

Dude, it seems rather un-saisonlike to have dextrin malt and such a high FG. Were you going for something specifically different from this? A saison should ALWAYS be dry and very well attenuated. I tend to stick with a variation of the same grain bill of 70% pilsner or 35% pilsner and 35% Vienna, 20% either wheat, rye or oats and ALWAYS 10% table sugar. I mash at 66c for 90 minutes and use a British inspired water treatment. My favourite yeast strain is TYB Wallonian Farmhouse, or a mix of that at Wyeast 3711 or Belle Saison for more hop oriented saisons. Now, my yeast knowledge for saisons is restricted, due to my inability to get other yeast strains cheaply enough where I live, in Thailand. I run Wallonian Farmhouse at 23c for two days, up to 24 for two days, and then take it our of the fermentation fridge to finish off. I do a simialr thing for Belle and 3711.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Thanks Lee! This is all great. I’ll give it a shot 🍻

[@leehaseley7608]

@@HopsANDgnarly thank you so much for taking my input in the way it was intended. I really do hope that some of it was helpful.

[@lekcom62]

Dan great job but you are already a great job sorry but hard to beat what you are already what you are doing cool blook

[@АлександрБлесс]

For the last 5 month I brewed 7 batches with different strains and malts. Best result for me: 80% pils, 15% wheat, 5% candy shugar. Wlp 585 or wy3031. Carbonated with shugar in Cornelius (make an experiment - split batch carbonated with shugar and with gas, more intense profile with sugar). OG 1044, FG 1001. Water without Cl. Sorry for my bad English. Really enjoy your channel and waiting videos with wild beer. With love from Russia!

[@HopsANDgnarly]

This is awesome! I should try some candy sugar. Thanks for watching!

[@kermets]

yes 1.014FG seems wrong....

[@princenymph1]

Try yeast bay

[@anthonyfigueroa762]

AYyyyy!!!!!!!!!!

[@NaxelThegreatest]

Bootleg its called Saison Parfait ! 60 % pilsen 28% rye 8% brut honey on days 7 of fermentation 3% rice hull 19 ibu with huell melon Fist wort addition 15 min boil 5 minute boil 0 minute boil Add your favourite brett on day 7 as well.

[@HopsANDgnarly]

Thanks man this looks great 🍻

[@somethingsbrewingIRL]

You didn't mention fermentation temps. To get the best out of Belle Saison (and its best is a real crowd pleaser) it needs to ferment hot. I typically let it free rise to 29-30℃. It also needs to be allowed to dry out to 1.000 or even below, 1.014 is still a long way from home. A few weeks lagering, a few weeks bottle conditioning, then it shines. The banana and bubblegum characteristics you mentioned indicate that it didn't get hot enough, and that it's diastatic nature hadn't had a chance to express itself.