Which Skiff to the Final? Comparing Skiffs Against My Requirements List

[@colrodrick8784]

Teo, it’s so true that as DIY builders of boats, we need as much info as possible from designers and their web sites. Whenever I have been looking for a design I read all the info on the applicable web site and download the bill of materials to price it here in regional Australia. Then if necessary I will buy the study plans. Sometimes this gives me more information that actually helps decide on build/no build therefore buy plans or not. Sometimes I need even more information and study plans are only additional advertising or magazine reviews which would have been nice to see on the website for free. Thanks again for all your efforts in putting together these educational and inspiring videos. Some of these boats I’ve never heard of before. I waste a lot of time on line; if I haven’t come across a small boat design before it is a rare bird, or not very popular here. Sometimes it’s both. Looking forward to new week mate.

[@TheBoatRambler]

I wonder if they go to buy a car or a bike the dealer asks them for money to let them know fuel type, bhp or engine size! 😏 anyway... I did spend a lot of hours looking for info on these boats indeed, and even more so that I could eliminate other designs too. But in the end I will have a good boat! 😉

[@colrodrick8784]

and there are lots of viewers folowing your journey@@TheBoatRambler

[@knucker4931]

Hi, I have been enjoying your videos very much! So thank you for the time it takes you to make them. I have suggestion which probably fails your list of requirements in a few areas, but I think a look at a West Mersey Duck Punt worth while if simple, easy to build, car topable and fun are high on your needs list. It will also sail in less water than probably any other mono hull. Worth a mention. Best wishes Al

[@TheBoatRambler]

Thanks for the feedback! 😉

[@kbbacon]

I read all of the comments and your replies. You did very well. This summer, I turned a 10 foot aluminum jon boat into a nesting boat, so it would fit on my rear cargo rack (trailer hitch mounted). I like the little boat, but the bulkheads really get in the way. Also, even though I removed a foot and a half, it's overall weight is higher. Car topping would be impossible without a ladder and help. Looking forward to the conclusion! Kevin from Missouri USA.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Thanks for watching! 😉

[@edwardbenton4428]

Hi have you looked at Sam Devlin's Linarch ? It's a nesting boat, it breaks in half. Car toppable,? You'll have check it out. ATB

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Edward, the Linach adds nothing to the GIS design other than nesting, and I would need a big van! Still insufficient flotation, and the rest...don't know! there's no info on the boat specs.

[@chrisring57]

One factor you leave out is shallow water ability and length of spars on a trailered boat can be also be important. Daggerboards and spars longer than hull are two huge nopes for me.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Chris, I actually like daggerboards more than pivoting centerboards. They allow you to change the draft without shifting the CLR much. Same with cassette rudders like on the GIS. You just need to be careful and play it safe. Finding a mast shorter than 12ft is very difficult! Even on a Lug sail the mast will still be longer than the hull.

[@Jim-vi4hh]

Great content. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on some very nice boats! I am glad you decided to take a look at the Oz Goose. It will be interesting to see how it rates for your criteria.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Thanks for watching Jim! The Goose has been preselected from the start. 😉

[@XSiLx2007]

@@TheBoatRambler Wow, but it's a design like the Optimist's dingy with asteroids. Or better said, it's an optimist seen through a magnifying glass. I have no doubt that it is easy to build. But will it be a fast boat, with a breeze? I think there are better designs, more beautiful, with better performances. Why don't you consider the tarka dingy ?

[@TheBoatRambler]

Function over form... There's a reason the Optis are still around. Of course we all like to look at a boat and admire its lines but if that boat doesn't allow you to go sailing and do what you want then it's like a statue, good only to look at. The OZ Goose is one of the simplest and more versatile boats I know. Performance wise it beats most other 12ft boats too. We will have to see how it scores against all others. PS: can't find any info on Tarka dinghy

[@XSiLx2007]

@@TheBoatRambler You're absolutely right, it wouldn't be easy to find the boat. I'm sorry, I wanted to shine and I got it wrong. Either way, the boat falls short of what you're looking for. Introducing Tarka the sailing dinghy , kzbin.info/www/bejne/jF7Ji5tuaLSXi6c . I owe you a beer dude 😂🤣😂

[@geraldtrumpp2340]

@@XSiLx2007 Not really an Optimist XL. This is the Mirror Dinghy, another very good design.

[@diogod1801]

O video mais aguardado do youtube... A conclusão ficará pro próximo episódio... hahahaha Bom trabalho, capitão.

[@TheBoatRambler]

😁😁

[@bartspiekstra3018]

Have you looked into folding designs like the Fliptail, Origami or Seahopper? Basic design so can be modified.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi, those designs are not fast, have no built in floatation and I can't sleep in them. 😉

[@bartspiekstra3018]

@@TheBoatRambler Fast, no(but any small dinghy wil give you the same effect as driving a gocart, low to the ground so not much speed needed to be exciting) Flotation, if you look at a Coracle 300 a French design they have built in inflatable flotation in the top row. Sleeping, if you take the flat bottem idee from the fliptail but make it longer en wider i could see sleeping capabilities. I am personally looking at a Fliptail of +- 11 feet long(maximum lengt for getting it into my storage space at home) and +-5 feet wide(2 person sleeping). Should give enough space for sleeping gear. And take the inflatable flotation idee from the Coracle. Ps. There is also the nesting expedition dinghy from CLC. Maby not that exact Design but interesting enough to steal ideas from. Looking forward to your decision and build. ( and a Norwegian tiller wil give more space and seating options)

[@TheBoatRambler]

​@@bartspiekstra3018 It's not a matter of feeling fast, it's a necessity as we only have 4 hours each day to sail. if it's slow I can't go places! The shape of the Fliptail would be impossible to sail here in the estuary chop! Imagine the waves hitting the boat's bow at 45 degrees every few seconds... the boat would stop! And I don't think it would withstand the heavy chop for too long. 😅

[@jerrymcintire7902]

The SNS was not that fast, certainly not like a GIS, in my experience. I agree it's not as simple to build either. I look forward to seeing your choice in the end.

[@pinoyboats]

The nesting spindrift was the first boat I built 18 years ago. I even learned to sail on it. I chose that design because I had storage and transport issues. I didn't cartop the boat, the boat easily fits inside an Asian utility vehicle (AUV), and that's what I used. The boat rows and motors well too.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Thanks for sharing Roy! 😉

[@pinoyboats]

you're welcome Teo, wasted a lot of epoxy, since it was my first build, took me and my friend 3 months to finish, it's a more involved build compared to a Goose :)

[@bnbowman2]

Interesting that you are showing interest in the Mebo 12. This one was on my short list along with the goat and the goose. Still have not settled on which one I will build. Now I’m very interested to see which one you choose and, in the end, how it compares with the goat.

[@jetstreamer3]

Ever look at the Viola 14? Also a Michael Storer design. It beats the GIS in every category except space and maybe freeboard.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi, I do know the design and it is a fun boat to sail for sure but it doesn't really meet the requirements. It won't take 3 or 4 ppl, I can't sleep in it, can't go fishing in it, and extremely low freeboard makes for a very wet ride. It's in a completely different class... 😉

[@dmitriysedov3662]

If you scale GIS by 0.9 in length and 1.1 in width, the stability will noticeably increase and the wetted surface will decrease slightly. The displacement will remain the same. The weight of the hull will be slightly less, you can also lighten it by using the method of stitching and gluing instead of the slats on the bottom and transom. The sailing equipment should remain the same. I made a model in FreeShip and changed the scale in two directions

[@jonymanay]

Hi could you cut weight by using thinner plywood and glass. I think in you GIS construction vid you went with 7-8mm over 6mm if i recall correctly. What if you went with 4mm thick ply sheets and glass.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Jony, I used 6.5mm instead of 6mm but the 60kg mentioned for the GIS is already taking into account it is built with lightweight marine plywood. Using thinner plywood and glass would save little weight and make it more expensive too.

[@christophejournoud2773]

Hi Teo, You should choose eventually the Mebo with the balanced lug rig of the ozgoose at 8 square meters

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Christophe, Yes that would be a good choice IF....the goose sail had the same CE as the Mebo's cat rig, which it has not. But not all is lost yet! 😉

[@christophejournoud2773]

Ok. It would be necessary to change/adapt the mast position

[@hansrupp3621]

@@christophejournoud2773 Under the previous video i explained in the comments, that this can easily be done by placing the center of aera of the different sails at the same line.

[@TheBoatRambler]

yes but a lug sail has a very narrow window to adjust that without having to change the hull design or making the sail too high. If you grab an existing sail it is very likely that you can't just shift the sail back or forward enough without destroying the sail performance.

[@peterbalka6964]

Great video. Are you referring to the Goose Explorer?

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Peter, yes it's the goose Explorer. 😉

[@BensWorkshop]

Interesting. Surely the nesting version should be easier to car top?

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Ben, yes it would be easier but...to be built in the nesting version AND have the full side seats it will be heavier too. The nesting version has two bulkhead by the centercase and the whole joining geometry, while the standard version only needs one bulkhead at that position so it can have the extra watertight seats and stay around 50kg.

[@BensWorkshop]

@@TheBoatRambler Somewhere there ha to be a compromise. Incidentally, Why can't you just change the sail type if you don't like them?

[@TheBoatRambler]

for a boat to have a balanced helm the center of lateral resistance, CLR, needs to be vertically aligned with the Center of sail area, CE. the CLR is dictated by the hull design, mainly by centerboard and rudder position. If the CE is back in relation to the CLR the boat will tend to sail to wind, if CE is ahead it will want to sail away from the wind (lee). It works like a windvane/weathercock, the CLR is the axle and the sail needs to be balanced around it. If I just swap for an existing sail it would be out of balance and if trying to fit a Lug sail to the existing design it's not guaranteed to be possible due to the specific geometry of such sail.

[@BensWorkshop]

@@TheBoatRambler I get that bit, but for example, you don't need to go for a sleeved sail, where one is in the design, you could attach it to the mast in a different way..

[@TheBoatRambler]

I guess I could change it but it still would not be a balanced lug sail! 😁

[@theresnobodyhere5778]

if you use weight saving materials on things like flotation compartments ,inch foam board glassed on both sides twice as light and twice as strong could be more expensive compared to wood

[@TheBoatRambler]

yes, but I like working with wood and using more expensive materials would fail in the "cheap to build" category!

[@frederickwood9116]

@@TheBoatRambler there is a 3mm mdf material with one side painted in almost a melamine but it’s more flexible. I’m considering it for a bumblebee build ( from Angus rowboats). If it’s sealed and not left to sit in water for weeks and weeks then I’m confident it would be fine for flotation tanks or as a hull skin where there is enough structural support.

[@XSiLx2007]

​@@frederickwood9116I think that it would not be very good to have the MDF.

[@theresnobodyhere5778]

i dont think there is the perfect boat that does all ,personally when you set yourself this challenge i said impossible to meet all those requirements there would need to be compromise on a few things on the list and immediately thought just do a scaled down version of the GOAT with same mods but brought back down to the 60 kg weight

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Frederick, MDF is heavier than light plywood and if it gets any water it will expand a lot.

[@grantcarlson9636]

Teo, love watching your videos. Have you taken a look at the CLC Passagemaker Dinghy? Weighs just 90 lbs (41 kg) so easy to cartop or move about on land. Balance lug rig is smaller than you want so consider replacing with larger reefable Oz Goose sail from MIK. Can be comfortably slept aboard in calm conditions if modification is made to shift daggerboard position slightly off-center. It has sealed chambers in the ends, and it's easy to strap in additional inflatable flotation. It's payload capacity is 850 lbs (386 kg) so it can carry 4 people. It sails and rows like a dream. Even makes beautiful sounds as it moves thru the waves. If you want to get somewhere fast it is built to accept a small outboard motor. I've been sailing small boats for decades and I absolutely LOVE mine.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Thanks Grant! the passage maker is a great little boat and really versatile too! But I need more speed! 😁 We have only 4 hours to sail each tide so the faster the boat the further I can go! 😉

[@grantcarlson9636]

@@TheBoatRambler When you want to go very far very fast just toss the PMD on top of your 🚗 !!!

[@grantcarlson9636]

I think the Oz Goose is the one you will build Teo. It would check a lot of your boxes. Impressive performance from such a simple boat. The main thing I would change is to move the daggerboard case out of the center aisle. Build it into one of the interior faces of the side flotation chambers instead. Opens up a lot of prime real estate, especially for sleeping.

[@TheBoatRambler]

😁

[@TheBoatRambler]

The OZ goose has 6ft between the transom and the centerboard, enough for me to sleep, I'm only 5' 7"!

[@chasingsunsets380]

Much thought going out. Looks. like decision time is coming up.

[@frederickwood9116]

This is very interesting. It would be nice to see the same comparison done after you had more familiarity with the various boats. You have a lot of familiarity with the GIS and you modified it to your needs really nicely. You have to draw a line in the sand obviously but I can’t help feeling you may be off on some points and mostly because you aren’t as familiar as you are with the GIS. I’m not talking from experience either so I’m not any more informed. You raised a really good point regarding the various data points typically available for these small boat designs. A bigger set of data would help people make better choices for their particular situation. Something like the standard data availability for comparison on the Sailboatdata site. Don’t need the site as such but to have the data available would be good. I would add something to your suggested data point list. “Can it plane and at what wind speed” Perhaps there is scope to assemble this data on Wikipedia!!?! Then it’s open to community updates etc. Thanks for sharing. Good luck with choosing.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Frederick. I'm sure I'm off in some of my remarks, but I can't sail them all, so I have to try to make an educated guess. The speed/wind data would be great! 😉

[@felipefaria]

Mebo looks great! I would build it FOR SURE! But... The sail is the most important thing on a sailboat, of course! So if cat or sloop is not your cup of tea, I'm afraid you should be very sure of your choice, so it won't be a regretable point in the future. Other than that, thank you so much for another amazing video. Congrats! By the way.. Have you considered the 4.0m dayboat from Radoslaw Werszko? ;-)

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi! the dayboat is not cartoppable, too wide, too heavy at 90kg with no built-in floatation. 😉

[@aNaturalist]

Mebo 12, but change the sail! That would be easy on the Spindthrift too.

[@robertbrander2074]

Make sure to add a ... Hardier Transom and Motor Mount ... Then you can boat in all Weather , wind oar No Wind ... Versatility plus Safety ! Cheers !

[@colvingazelle]

Great reviews! I might have suggested this boat in the past, but it is probably out of consideration because it is not car toppable at 225 lbs (102 kilos). It has a sprit rig option, is self bailing and basically not swampable. Lots of room for sleeping and for four, and a spritely sailer. Plus it is from a good well respected designer, Arch Davis - the Laughing Gull PS - I tried to include a URL but KZbin accused me of being a spammer!

[@TheBoatRambler]

Thanks! Yes 102kg is way too much. Funny enough the specs for the boat on the website show 12'9" instead of 16ft 🤔

[@geraldtrumpp2340]

The original GIS design fullfill most of your criteria. If you add inflatable beach roller on the sides (no additional weight), buoyancy would also be acc. your spec. And that bailing is not at all neccessary - how often are you unwillingly capsized in the last seasons? As I know, never at all. Safety is important, yes (you know, the Dory ...), but a little bit of bailing is not a problem from my point of view. And you know as well, that boats with a lot of side buoyancy tend to turtle, at least, when the mast is not as light as the GIS hollow box. Good luck with your search ... I think, I already know the winner ;-)

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Gerald, The GIS is great but...in the first "new build video" I said I wanted something more stable so that my parents could enjoy the boat sometimes too. I also said I was looking for a dinghy max 12-13ft long to make it easier to cartop. And btw it's not the mast low weight alone that makes it not turtle (look at carbon masts) it's also its volume, around 26liters, @ 11kg weight makes for minimum of 15liters of built in floatation on that mast!! The winner...well I'm not 100% sure yet, that's how close it is on the final! Stay tuned 😁

[@geraldtrumpp2340]

@@TheBoatRambler Hi Teo, I already got it - but I have problems to imagine, that a cartoppable 12 footer is more stable than the GIS. To achieve this, it really hast to look like a square box ;-)

[@TheBoatRambler]

The GIS doesn't have much initial stability, the widest part of the bottom is just over 1meter. It is very good once the gunwale is approx 8 inches from the water tho.

[@geraldtrumpp2340]

@@TheBoatRambler Initial stability depends on the point of view. The CLC NE Dory is max 50cm wide on the bottom (and therefore one of the fastest boats on the lake in medium winds). For the Goat I don't see the problem with primarily stability. I would more doubt the secondary. From my experience she comes very fast after a point of no return is crossed compared with rounded hulls like Dory or 420/470/Bahia. But this is on a level that seems sufficient to me.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi Gerard I can only tell you about my point of view on the GIS. It doesn't take much wind at all to get the gunwale close to the water but once it get's there, because it has such a high freeboard, you end up with a deep "V" shape section under water and it feels more stable.

[@recidivist11]

Love your analysis. But it still comes back to the goat. Me I would build the goat with a false floor and no side seats. It would be lighter and with transom cutouts the water would flow straight out the back after a capsize.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi, to consider it a cartopper I assume the boat weighs less than 60 kg, and that is the weigh of a GIS built in light marine plywood. if you add an extra sheet for the double floor (8kg minimum) plus the structure needed under the floor it will be in the 70s. The amount of plywood used to extend the mid seat and make the side tanks is about the same has for doubling the floor.

[@recidivist11]

@@TheBoatRambler ok I see. What about building hhe floor in foam and glass?

[@TheBoatRambler]

Sorry for the late reply but your comment was held by YT!! I guess that could work but I have no experience with that.

[@recidivist11]

Yes that would work. I have done it with minimal supports by making the floor a stressed unit. I.e two layers of 3mm built over a slightly curved mold or by gluing stringers to the sides an a girder down the centre and forcing the ply down on to the girder.

[@thesouthslab7566]

Wouldn’t core sound 15 from B and B yacht be a better design than spindrift for your need? It’s not car topable, but enough size to sleep in and easily carry 4 adults. Not so easy or cheap to build maybe… Personally, I want to build Outrigger Junior from CLC. Being proa, it would be very different from the flying craft of yours but it should be fast, too.. Anyway, great video always! I like GS design more now!

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi, the Spindrift wasn't my pick, these shootouts are about the models you guys chose so that I can take a couple of them to the final where I will rate my preselected design against the winners. Still, with cartoppable being the most important requirement, the Spindrift would actually be a better choice than the Core Sound 15.

[@thesouthslab7566]

Hi, sorry I posted my comment in the middle, thanks for great videos, I always enjoy it!

[@liamstone3437]

What if you had solid foam floatation "tanks" instead of the plywood and glass tanks you made in your GIS? They could be removable and replaceable when car-topping or when they wear out from sitting on them. This could make the GIS supreme in all categories. Also using a lighter grade plywood would help.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi, the 60kg mentioned in the video are for a GIS built of lightweight marine ply. The solid foam would work but it also means you would need a lot of room in the car to transport them plus all other gear.

[@XSiLx2007]

@@TheBoatRambler But there are plastic tanks that can be filled with air, so that the boats don't sink. When pots are much smaller. It doesn't look very pretty, but they work.

[@frederickwood9116]

Oh. I thought of another boat. I don’t think it can really be a contender as I have never seen it car topped. It’s definitely fast, it has a rig you like, it hasn’t got built in flotation in its current design. It’s called a “Shannon One Design” it’s sailed on the various river Shannon lakes in Ireland. I can’t see it fitting enough of your criteria but if you are ever in Ireland you would only have to mention an interest to the community and you would go home with a smile.

[@GlassFamily-s6j]

Why would the GIS be cheaper to build than the shorter Spindrift

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi, from the video detailing the cost to build a Spindrift it looks like it takes the same amount of resin, the same amount of plywood and the final cost was very similar to what I spent on the GIS. Taking in consideration the GIS is 16ft and the Spindrift is 11ft, the GIS must score higher!

[@thesouthslab7566]

Spindrift 11 requires 5 sheets of 6 mm marine plywood (from B and B website in F/Q) but it comes with added floatation bench that requires more sheets to build so..

[@isaacpaulsen1158]

Mebo 12 with a lug rig!!!!!!

[@XSiLx2007]

I think you have here a good selection. But some scores you put are ok, I guess. But some I feel that not very fair. Well, I would give more 1 or 2 points. But that's is me. Another thing is , you could do some modes, like you have done on your dingy. Again, is me and my judgment. Maybe I not very fair with your decision. You have far more experience than I have. Anyway, it as been very interesting to see the dingy selection.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi, Thanks for the feedback! This was not my dinghy selection, this was the viewer's suggestions. My "pre selection" was made some time ago. These was only a informative series comparing several designs with the best still to come! 😁

[@hansrupp3621]

You come to the same conclusions then i do. Wheter it's more important to have a light boat or more performance i would pick the Mebo 12 or the GIS and make some minor modifications to my purposes as skip nesting, lugg sail on the Mebo option or shorten the GIS for less weight a little bit and a flotation tanks. Because you are so confident with the GIS it's the question if you are stick to the proved design or willing to take a small amount of risk. It' s up to youre personality ...

[@TheBoatRambler]

The GIS... I already have one! 😁 the Mebo is a great contender but using the Goose sail would imply moving the CLR (center case) if using the mast step as per the plans. I don't know if there is enough space to move the mast step forward. Another possibility would be to make the sail taller and narrower but them there's more leverage with a longer mast... still in analysis! 😉

[@Antipodean33]

A scaled down version of the Goat would be interesting

[@TheBoatRambler]

Well, if Michael thinks a smaller GIS might not work who am I to think otherwise?😉

[@rexwolfe9916]

Surely the Oz Goose has to win based on your criteria.

[@TheBoatRambler]

Surely it will be in the final shout out and we will know! 😁

[@jfrazao]

The solution is Removable floatation compartments when you need to go car topable!

[@TheBoatRambler]

Hi João, ...or not! the Laser is cartoppable and no removable compartments. 😁 Now seriously, there are at least two design which meet the requirements stay tuned!

[@frederickwood9116]

@@TheBoatRamblerI missed something in an earlier video I think. Is it just the extra weight of the built in floatation that stops a boat being car topable?

[@TheBoatRambler]

If the original design is already close to the max weight your car can take on the roof rack then adding the extra structure for the floatation can take it over that. Max beam is also important since standard racks have a max width too. Length of the car and local law, )like how much can it protrude from the back of you car) play a role too. So it's a bunch of different considerations JUST to be considered cartoppable.

[@n176ldesperanza7]

Very helpful--thank you. I built my first dinghy (a PT11) to be a tender for my small cruiser. (see kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHnNqYGYbqyVsKM) Now I need another project, something a little bigger and more capable, and I have been following your adventures with your GIS. I am liking that boat a lot (especially with your mods) and there is a very complete kit available for it. So far that is my number one pick.

[@TheBoatRambler]

The GIS is so far unbeatable for Speed and Fun! For my next build I want something smaller and cartoppable so the GIS is out unfortunately! But I already have one! 😁