Which small bore adventurer? BMW GS 310 or Voge 300 Rally (quick static comparison)

[@markdawson5215]

I love this breakdown. The point that you continue to stress: stop focusing on trying to find the perfect bike, and look for the best bike for you (the best tool for the job) at this particular stage of your riding career (and price point) is spot on. On top of that, you highlight the features that will help riders make those decisions. Today's video, for example, was the very first time I've heard someone discuss strengths and weaknesses of front tyre width. And all done in 10 minutes.

[@rwriddell]

Fair account of the Beemer, which I ride with Rally Raid level 2. One thing for sure, the light weight adventure bike segment is building by the minute - it just makes sense for the beginner, intermediate, and older rider wishing to enjoy a mix of tarmac and dirt with relative ease. Healthy, happy, prosperous new year to you & family.

[@ludvigyttergren4928]

Would really like to see you review the CF 450 MT when it becomes available. Really like your unbiased approach to looking at chinese/indian bikes.

[@nathanthepostman]

Thanks lud. Not much word on cf moto launch date but very keen to try it

[@keepitreal1547]

A bang on assessment of both these bikes, plus even more so, the Himalayans, which really do splice these two up. I was undecided in these two because I wanted more capabilities of both & the Himalayan 411 E5 has given me that...what a bike 😊

[@MikeNoble]

I’m enjoying my 310gs and use it for road riding completely. The comfort of the bike is better than anything in this class. There are better road bikes but they lean forward where the gs is nice and upright with a very comfortable seat. I enjoy your comparison and your quite right in defining it how you did. So many reviewers I see knocking it for not being very trail capable and being underpowered are missing the strong suit of the bike. It has all the power I need and is great for how I use it.

[@UltralightMotorcycleCamping]

There are a few videos of a bone stock G310GS doing some serious off road riding, and doing it well. The problem isn't the bike. The problem is the rider. If someone was willing to use a G310GS for an off road ADV bike, it'd fair better than the mid size and full size ADV bikes that are too heavy, too tall, too heavy, too powerful and too heavy for trail riding. Even without the very nice Rally Raid level 2 setup, there are relatively inexpensive upgrades that make the baby GS much better off road - 50/50 tires with some big block knobs, larger pegs, engine crash protection, a proper aluminum bash plate, radiator guard, BarkBusters, folding mirrors....

[@BreezyRider66]

Always good to hear your perspective Nathan. FWIW I try to focus on what my bike is and what it can do, that way I enjoy it. Mainstream reviewers are always focusing on the shortcomings of especially smaller engined bikes. I have a CBR250R at the moment, it's a blast, went round Northern France on it last summer with cheap throwover panniers, A & B roads, great trip. I've had much bigger, faster, way more expensive bikes but cannot justify them any longer - my age, their cost, condition of UK roads & the sheer amount of traffic and cameras in the UK makes it pretty pointless. Have a good 2024...

[@iangriffiths9930]

I’m really looking forward to the Himmy and CFO reviews that I pray are in the pipeline Nathan. 🙏

[@BikingChap]

Thanks Nathan, all good common sense stuff as ever. I often say there aren't many bad bikes anymore, it's just about being honest with yourself and what you want / need from a bike and then best matching those priorities to the strengths of the various bikes. From a sales point of view i think the GS would be more popular if they went with spoked wheels but that obviously adds cost and nothing really apart from looks. Perhaps prospective BMW owners in particular look down their nose at the smaller capacity, if so, it's their loss. As you say if predominately road use, choose the BMW, for mainly off road the Voge makes more sense of these two. As for the Himalayan that really could hit a sweet spot. We've all seen it's relative off road prowess, so I think it's more pitched at the Voge buyers but with a significantly bigger engine it should be more capable on road if the chassis isn't too compromised. Pitched in the same place in between the BMW and Voge as the original but with more oomph, price aside it may well be the best compromise out there. As for the Scambler, I still have a deposit down, and it's a pretty thing but i think it's firmly in the off road *styled* road bike category even more so than the GS. Nothing wrong with that of course but I'd be surprised if you ever see many on the green lanes.

[@erwinm4492]

All the best for 2024 and like you looking forward towards spring and the new upcoming bikes!

[@danweston6043]

Happy New year Nathan

[@nathanthepostman]

Cheers Dan. Hope you had a good one.

[@jimbob67]

I'm still happy with my gs. close to six thousand miles since buying at the end of May. It's a simple honest and easy bike to live with 👍

[@serbbrb_7891]

ever looking forward to installing some rally raid parts to it?

[@stuartdenty3163]

Thanks Nathan - great thought-provoking content. Cheers

[@leslieaustin151]

Happy new Year Nathan, and thanks… I think there’ll be a lot of good videos from you in 2024! Looking forward to your impressions on the ‘small’ Triumph, but really want your impressions of the RE 452 Himmy. Take care! Les

[@nathanthepostman]

Cheers les. Best to you and the family in 2024

[@andrewhirons398]

Nathan good video. Interesting, thought provoking and well put together. Thanks

[@adaptableadventurerider]

Another absolutely brilliant video Nathan as always. I think you pretty much nailed it ads up to similar thoughts i had with the 390adv himmy an 300 rally that i bought. I think its a shame BMW really haven't upped it with the 310 when i first started posting about possible bikes for my dad an I just before Covid happened. Bmw in Germany actually messaged me wondering why i was even looking at buying the 310 having had at the time a 1200gsa te 2014 which i did a ton of miles on an big days an a f800gs. They just couldnt understand it an passed the comments onto the dev team apparently as to why i was looking at it. All the dealer's were very dismissive of it which i think was a shame as the weight of it is really handy compared to some of the bigger cc stuff. They seem really good in the used market place an for a good 80% of us the 19" wheelset is a handy wheelsize i actually kept considering buying a set for the 300 rally before i sold it as ive wound up having to do alot of road miles. I think the 310 could be so much more from the crate an the shame of it is BMW used to have brilliant smaller cc boxer engines before the R80G/S. So they know how to make some lower cc stuff like what Elspeth used. Almost feels like a 500 boxer twin would be a good bike in this range. Low cog managable but with good road legs and some think thats a bit different to the sea of parallel twins. Its an exciting time at this end of the market for sure. I keep wondering what we will see from the Japanese companies at some point.

[@alozborne]

I considered a G310GS but ended up buying a 2022 Honda CB500X instead. No regrets with that decision, but the new Transalp is awfully tempting!

[@110adventures7]

Another no-nonsense video. I was tempted a few years ago by the CB500X but found it to lack long distance motorway speed without becoming fatiguing so I went for the NC750X covered 18,000 miles over Europe and North Africa in 14 months. I do mainly road miles but wanted something with a gravel track ability to scope out campsites at the end of a days riding. After my trip I swapped to a 1200 Multistrader as the campsites I was using were mainly mainstream ones. Big mistake to big too clumsy to move about off the stand and far too complicated to service, final death nell for the Multi was rutted road passing an industrial park in France where the truck wheels had carved out grooves and the extra few mm meant I nearly dropped it. Got home and swapped the Ducati for 650 Versys great bike suits me perfectly. The lighter bikes make so much more sense than the so called heavyweight adventure bikes. As I get older and the arthritis is taking hold the 300GS (or something similar) will more than likely be the next bike.

[@nathanthepostman]

Thanks 110. Yes, great tourers those NC750X and no pretences about being an off road machine. I'd choose one over a CB500X for long distance work all day long as well. Glad you've found yourself the right machine. Downsizing is inevitable for us all somewhere down the track. I think this 300-400cc class is my favourite right now.

[@sanatandharma4435]

Happy New Year Nathan! From Asturias Spain, where we have lots of trails!

[@chrisjonesbath]

I think you do the road manners of the Voge Rally a bit of a disservice. I have found the back-road handling to be quite stiff and sharp and don't notice the dive when braking, but I am a gentle plan ahead braker. The only trail bike mannerism I do notice on the road is the 21" front wheel and the seat height. At 5'10" it does focus my mind on cambers and inclines coming to a stop!

[@battlingbats3040]

Thanks for clearing this up. Another great video.

[@UltralightMotorcycleCamping]

I've had a G310GS for a little over three years. I bought it as my 60th birthday present and it was the best choice for my old man adventures. I've been making it more off road capable and more comfortable and useful for me. We finally got lightweight ADV bikes several years ago but the motorcycle company marketing departments still refuse to sell us the bike we want - a lightweight off road oriented ADV bike that produces enough power that it can comfortably cruise at highway speeds when needed. That's probably a 450 cc to 500 cc thumper. Why can't we buy this bike? The big motorcycle companies want to sell us a beginner ADV bike to get us to upgrade to their mid or full size ADV bike in a year or two. They don't want to sell us a do-it-all bike that's far better off road than their larger ADV bikes, because that would cut into the sales of more profitable bikes. Kove, CF Moto and to a lesser extent Royal Enfield are finally succumbing to market forces and trying to sell us the ADV bike we want. How long until Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, BMW or KTM finally give in and make a great lightweight but powerful ADV bike?

[@Skyfloats72]

Hey, great video as always. If I didn't have the 411 Himmy, I would have had a Voge in a heartbeat, they are a ace bike. Over Christmas was offered a R1200GS Adventure, at a silly price (bonkers value) so decided to buy that as well. So now have my dream garage 😍. Happy New Year to you, and, can't wait to see your new adventures this year.

[@stevec-b6214]

totally agree, I only have space for one bike though, and the Himmy is going nowhere.

[@ASGundogs]

I’d say to both of you- go demo a Voge. A Himmy has no redeeming features in comparison.

[@stevec-b6214]

@ASGundogs not happening, I am happy with what I have. As the Irish say, if its not broke, don't fix it.

[@Skyfloats72]

I will be keeping my Himmy 411 to, I adore that little tractor of a bike, its just ace fun.

[@BrianSmith-ql5nj]

Nice pair together.. throw in the hima 411 for the perfect trifecta.

[@cafeteropiper2811]

Love my Himmy

[@skaraborgcraft]

I will be surprised if the 400 scrambler is any better as the GS out the box.......but i look forward to seeing you wring its neck up some muddy/slate bed track in the near future. Happy new year.

[@nathanthepostman]

I think the suspension might be a bit better. But otherwise I agree, equally mediocre on tricky stuff. But we shall endeavor to find out! Mine should be arriving soon I think

[@dewipeach]

Another great commentary, Nathan. You've summed it up well, old adage of "Horses for Courses".. Every bike has it's merits, but above all what is any Rider's requirements. I've learnt twice.. first it would have been possible to ride the SV.VM RS300R had I worn my full riding gear.. the sag I'd more than likely flat footed.. even 31" inside leg..! once on the bike. Second time the Himalaya, Sneakers, jeans and tee shirt no real test for any bike.. for anyone.! Full riding gear an it's feet flat on Himalaya now. Comparison 411 cut a new market like the DR350 had... 452 have we a new kid DRZ400.. "my 2¢" Have a Blessed New Year.. PS.. Is that lingerie a bit tight...

[@tiagobotelho7882]

I had the 411 Himalayan, and after the SWM Superdual X, I'm now with the Voge 300 Rally. With the upcoming 452 Hima and 450 MT I've been thing if i should go for one of the two, because e love the trails, but i also go for long road trips... 🤔 Just waiting for the RE and CF Moto to arrive in Portugal and give a try to see if they convince me to change the 300Rally.

[@MidCoastAdventures]

Having owned both the GS and the Honda 300 Rally- both great machines, one more road biased, the other offroad. Nothing is perfect for everything - which I like how you touched on. Cheers for the up-load 👍

[@ExeterCenturion]

Yeah, I realised I was having to do too much to my G320GS to get it to do what I now need it to. So seriously considering the Voge now.

[@ekimandersom4478]

310

[@jimmyjam8795]

Excellent points made here. If my insurance company decide to write off my CB500X I might not replace it with the same commuter. My Himalayan 450 is already on order as a summer bike. Listening to your accent Nathan, am I aiming right at Lincolnshire?

[@nathanthepostman]

Not far off. Other side of the border. Mansfield, Notts

[@yellownev]

Interesting as always. Question is if you spend the money on the GS to make it more off roady does it then compromise its road winning bias ? Watched an India KZbinr on the 452 and in the comments someone mentions the ‘ many’ problems with the new Triumph 400 scrambler ….. could have been just a RE fan person but did make me wonder if there were issues being reported on the new Triumphs ? Ride safe.

[@nathanthepostman]

Thanks yellow. To be honest, improving the suspension on the 310 makes it a better trail and road bike. Benefits it all round. Heard a few rumblings of triumph troubles. You don't know what's true and what's not on KZbin anymore. Hopefully get mine end of this month

[@enduromotorradtouren]

I've never understood why BMW offers everything for die 1250/1300 GS, but not even spoke wheels for the 310 GS. Maybe the Bavarians only believe in huge capacity. Which is completely wrong from an entrepreneurial point of view - BMW misses out on the beginner's and middle of the road market, only cares for the top. Cheesr from Nürnberg, Günter

[@soggybawsmoto]

Hmmmm, im always one for bitsa bikes. Bang a 390 Adventure motor into a Voge 300 Rally, and you'd have something interesting, suppose not unlike the new 390 Adv that is being talked about atm, and still lighter than the 200lb 452.

[@ktmtravels3727]

Surprised the Voge is 165kg. I think the fact the upgrades for the GS add up to the price of a new Voge is telling. Both good bikes, certainly.

[@nathanthepostman]

Yeah it weighs the same as a crf300 rally when I had them on the scales here

[@bencluroe4183]

Great breakdown. I am in this predicament now. I brought a classic 350 and I love it but despite me changing the tyres and handle bars it’s not happy off road. I need a sub 400cc adventure bike for under 3k. What are the thoughts on the sinnis 380 or zontes 310 Front runner for the money Is either bmw or himi I think.

[@nathanthepostman]

Thanks Ben. I wouldn't touch either the zontes or the sinnis to be fair. The sinnis is heavy and horribly geared. The zontes has a decent engine but woeful off road as I found out riding a customer's bike on the ACT trip last year. A 310 gs is better than both imo

[@bencluroe4183]

@@nathanthepostman yeah ok good call, 310gs these days for under 3k is madness too, so cheap! Also looking at verseys 300 or storm 250 but they seem to have gone up a little lately.

[@nathanthepostman]

Versys is a decent bike. High revving. A plank for a seat. They seem to fetch strong money. The vstrom I quite liked. Just a simple thrashable indestructible machine. And cheap. ​@@bencluroe4183

[@bencluroe4183]

@@nathanthepostman yeah I think so too. See what I can come up with. I’m testing the voge 300 Friday, it looks brilliant so see what that’s like, 4k is great value just weighing up whether to wait for a few months for someone to sell one on for closer to 3k

[@nathanthepostman]

Unfortunately I've only seen one second hand one come up so far. Went for £3650 I think with 600 miles on it@@bencluroe4183

[@bohdan7630]

What do you think about the voge 300ds? Isn't it a more direct competitor to the gs 310?

[@nathanthepostman]

I'd not see that bike before. Just had a look. Yeah it probably is more equal to the BMW. The GS will have a bit more power, and the 19 inch front wheel of the GS would be my preference. It's only a 17 inch front on the Voge. But I imagine the price will be good. Probably the same as a nearly new 310.

[@planefrog]

Never realised the Voge had such a high seat. How do you paddle that when you're getting stuck in the mud?

[@nathanthepostman]

Tip toes! Though to be fair I don't think it's as unmanageable as that spec sheet figure suggests. There's a little bit of sag in the suspension and the seat probably sheds another inch or off the height when you're on it. I'm an optimistic 5'10" and I can paddle it.

[@maxflight777]

BMW made a mistake with the sculpted seat on the 310. it hampers the trail ability (imho)

[@thebikegeekandmore2448]

Nathan, what do you think of the new Yamaha pg-1? Better the hunter cub 125?

[@nathanthepostman]

Yeah looks good. Unfortunately zero chance of coming to the UK. We need a solution to this light low slow gap in the market

[@thebikegeekandmore2448]

@@nathanthepostmanMaybe Yamaha will do onother analyse then Honda?

[@nathanthepostman]

I think the problem is that none of these bikes are being designed to be Euro 5 compliant, so no ABS etc. Real shame@@thebikegeekandmore2448

[@cloggsy1971]

Out of those two, the Voge. Not ridden either, but the Voge seems more robust that the cast-wheeled BMW. Although, I would probably opt for the new Himalayan…

[@nathanthepostman]

I haven't broken a cast rim yet and do like the convenience of not having a tube. That new Himalayan definitely looks to have the best of both worlds with the spoked tubeless. I think orders should start rolling through soon.

[@cloggsy1971]

@@nathanthepostman Only the most expensive variant comes tubeless as standard from what I understand. The rest have tubeless wheels as an option? 🤔 Correct me if I’m wrong…

[@nathanthepostman]

No you're right, but at least it's an option and not an overly expensive one (£200 I think) compared to the KTM 390 Adv which I think is about £400 for the spokes@@cloggsy1971

[@cloggsy1971]

@@nathanthepostman I would never buy another KTM again, even if they were the last manufacturer on the planet… But that is a whole other story…

[@teneretraveller8980]

Bmw missed a chance with the 310gs, it could have been so much more. Like Honda with the 500x abd Kawasaki with the Versys. Lazy, taking us for granted? Who knows? But the important thing is just to get out and ride whatever you gave got. We're all on 2 wheels. That's what matters. Ride safe and happy travels

[@BikingChap]

I don't think it's so much lazy as compromising a design to ensure it sells. The 500x was never designed to be a CRF500, it's basically a 'adventure' styled commuter / light tourer bike that can be made to be quite good off road. I think the trouble with the 310 is most BMW buyers don't go off road but rather tour / travel so, rather ironically, a small GS doesn't make sense to todays buyers. I would've been interesting to see an GSA model with spoked wheels, longer suspension and a bigger tank, it might just have found a niche with the serious traveller folk if not the coffee shop aficionados ;)

[@davidmatthews3093]

@@BikingChapThe 500X is a great real world adventure bike. It’s far more than a styling exercise.

[@BikingChap]

@@davidmatthews3093 I guess it depends what you mean by a 'real world adventure bike'. Can i tour? Sure as long as you're not in a hurry. Can it go offroad? Sure on the gentle stuff and / or with modes. But is it a bike best suited to 6 month off tarmac tour of the world? No, i think there are fair better candidates for that and Honda gets that. Again, it's not simply a bigger CRF300L.

[@anthonyturner3238]

Hi Nathan Could you do a review on the kove 450 rally please

[@nathanthepostman]

If I can get my hands on one I'd love to try one. As I said somewhere else in these comments tho, I don't think it slots into this category and from what I've seen it's going to be too aggressive for the novice to average rider off road. And short intervals hamper it for long distance travel as well. I think unless you're going to be using it for rally-enduros it could be the wrong bike. But keen to see if I'm wrong

[@anthonyturner3238]

@@nathanthepostman I have had the chance to ride one for a couple of hours off road and on tarmac . I am a total novice to off road riding , i found the kove brilliant on road and off road , gave me so much confidence in the mud etc. i found the power was fine not to much 51 bhp i believe. I have very limited knowledge on off road bikes , but this could tick the box for 1 bike to do off road and long tour .

[@nathanthepostman]

​@@anthonyturner3238great to hear that. Bodes well then. What is the service interval? Did I hear it was every 1000 miles?

[@anthonyturner3238]

@@nathanthepostman Hi Nathan I believe service intervals are 5000 miles?

[@nathanthepostman]

@@anthonyturner3238 Just found this service chart on adv that suggests oil change every 4000 kilometres and valve check every 2000 kilometres. Not ideal for a travel bike but I'm sure you could stretch it out a bit

[@thestrictlynoparking]

Where does the Beta Alp 200 sit in the mix. I am considering one for off road activities?

[@nathanthepostman]

I haven't ridden one but I imagine it's great on the trails - lighter than these two - but probably hard work on a long road stretch

[@thestrictlynoparking]

@@nathanthepostman many thx will look into it further

[@johnrocker2986]

Good explanation with accurate knowledge, top stuff mate.

[@1990-t1j]

The BMW looks so good, but the Voge is much better value. Nick

[@tonydoc903]

Have you had a look at the Kove 450 Rally bike.

[@nathanthepostman]

Ive had a look at one and have been following some ride threads on Facebook. To me it's a completely different bike to these. Far more aggressive, would take a much better rider to properly pilot than say a CRF or voge. Short service intervals. It seems much like the ccm gp450 I have in spec. Whether it's better than a ccm I'm not sure. It certainly seems to be the flavour of the month.

[@zahadou]

some idiot will always buy a GS1800 or whatever - to go Adventure-ing. But never even ride to Tesco on it.

[@giuliobuccini208]

The Himalayan is still too heavy, IMO. I'm waiting for the new Ktm 390 to see what they propose.

[@davidmatthews3093]

I just can’t see why I would ever consider buying a 310GS. I wanted an adventure bike that I could use to cover big distances across Europe loaded with camping gear, something that wouldn’t be out of its depth if it left the tarmac so I bought a 2021 Honda 500X and while fixing it up fitted a RallyRaid rear shock with remote preload adjuster and a stronger rear spring. I ended up with a bike that’s perfect for what I do in the real world. I will be keeping it for a fair time yet. I’ve been impressed with what the 500X will do off-road. I also have a DR125 and the 500X has been everywhere I’ve taken the Suzuki and never struggled. In the Picos it waltzed through the section that Mr Vida made his dramatic KZbin video about. That’s it then, my real life bike, sorted. The trouble is life’s not quite that simple and I live in a place where tracks, trails and the countryside are accessed direct from my property. The DR125 has always been the bike for those routes but it’s getting old so I needed to think. When I’ve ridden with visitors who use my 125 I’ve always been quite happy to take the 500X but although it’s up to the job those routes are not where it belongs. Then the Voge appears. Perfect. It’s become my Suzuki replacement, it’s great on the trails and is more than capable of accessing the TET where it passes by a quarter of an hour’s ride away. It can be used on the TET carrying camping gear, my horizons broaden. I’m lucky I can have my horses for courses, I have a long distance bike that’s capable of going off-road, and I’ve got my off-road bike that can travel long distances. If I had to be restricted to one bike to do it all would I consider the GS310 for the role? No! No chance! The 310 is what it is and is a compromise without any real strengths, for a one bike household and my requirements both the Voge and 500X out score the 310 by a long way. What have I lost, I suppose there are plenty of people out there who would be quick to point out that I’d missed out on owning a BMW, missed out on having a GS. That’s the trouble, BMW have a bike that can’t touch the competition but BMW know there will be customers queueing up to buy into the product, buy into the name. Fools, queue over there.

[@nathanthepostman]

Great input Dave. Glad you're happy with the voge. I did have a cb500x with the full rally raid kit on and I have to be honest I just didn't gel with the thing. I was happy to get shut of it. Just shows there's a saddle out there for everyone and that we're all so weirdly different when it comes to bike choice. Happy new year to you

[@davidmatthews3093]

@@nathanthepostmanHappy New Year. Yes, your videos where you talked about the 500X were memorable because you were negative when the majority of other reviewers were the opposite. I wondered at the time whether you were disappointed with it because even after throwing a lot of money at it it wasn’t what you wanted it to be. I almost choked when you commented on the 2023 model because your enthusiasm flooded out. In my experience the only people who aren’t very pleased with their 500X seem to be people who bought the wrong bike. They seem to be the people who want to use it as a commuter bike and sit in dual carriageways and motorways at 80mph. The 500X will do that but it’s not really in its element, there are better bikes out there for those people or even a diesel hatchback for the real problem cases. My point is that for the difference in price the 500X is a much better bike than the 310 BMW. Anyone who starts throwing money at their GS just closes that gap to no advantage. The 310GS’ market is people who want a BMW and don’t care if the competitors are better or not. If BMW can catch enough of those people they’re laughing.

[@nathanthepostman]

​@@davidmatthews3093 I bought the cb500x as rally raids ex demo bike with all the kit on it. I got it at a good price. I didn't spend a penny on it. People rode it back to back with the other bikes on the A2 bikes. Alongside the gs 310 it was the least liked bike. I think the rally raid kit adds too much expectation. The stock 2022 bike is better as standard. The 500x is a very good everyday bike. Nothing wrong with it. No doubt a better mile muncher than all bikes in this class. A customer brought one on the ACT back in April. That had the RR kit on as well. We also had a gs310 with the rally raid kit. The guy on the 500x really struggled on the trickier stuff. I had to ride it out. It was hard work in those conditions. The 310gs was much easier in those same conditions. Conclusion would be if you want a road and gravel based adventure bike get cb500x. If you want something slightly more trail capable and more manageable in tricky situations get the 310.

[@rogerparkes1393]

R1300GS :)

[@nathanthepostman]

Haha. Not on your nelly

[@Add.All.Services]

Honda CRF300L Rally Is good & Best than all it