White LED vs Red/Blue LED Grow Test - Part 4 (The Final Results!) "Hydroponic Tomatoes" 2016

Part 1 • White LED vs Red/Blue ... (Education only)
Part 2 • White LED vs Red/Blue ... (First Grow Test)
Part 3 • White LED vs Red/Blue ... (Par Measurements)
2018's Red/Blue vs White LED - • White LED vs Red Blue ...
White LED VS RED/BLUE/WHITE LED Grow Test Ep.1 2018
- • White LED vs Red Blue ...
White LED VS RED/BLUE/WHITE LED Grow Test Ep.2 2018
- • White LED vs Red Blue ...
In this final grow test I use hydroponics and adjust the lights to specific heights so the the PAR output matches at the plant canopy.
I used a wire hanging from the light housing to keep the appropriate distance between the bottom of the light and the top of the plants. Up until the end of the test, the plants under Red/Blue light were slightly taller and much closer to their light than the plants under the white LED. However, the same thing happened in this test as in the first test. The plants under the red/blue light all collapsed under their own weight.

[@MarkusMalecki]

Thanks man. You made my day. Your 4 part research was - indeed - a little bit long, but to my surprise, every aspect of my questions was answered in extreme detail. Excellent work. Thanks again.

[@garygrise7794]

Thanks Bob, I watched all 4 parts, thoughtfully done, complete, it answered a lot of questions for me. Also helped clarify results I saw elsewhere (for instance where a pot grower reported better results under white leds versus a expensive pink grow light). Appreciate the effort.

[@phonixsolomon6275]

So what's better white led or purple led?

[@INeedsMoneys]

From this video white is better. I believe personally that a mixture between white and pink is the optimum.

[@Ataraxia27]

Please keep making these great informational and experimental videos!

[@mr420superstar7]

After watching all 4 parts I will definitely switch from HPS/MH to white COB. Thanks for the help.

[@Majnun74]

Wish I had seen this before I purchased red/blue led light grow tent. Can I compensate by adding a full spectrum clip light into my tent environment?

[@BruLLLo]

This was a suprise for me , I have build my own grow fixture with 4 20w red/blue LEDs and do not see much diff to soil. I will add some white light and see what happens.

[@VadimMelnicuk]

Thanks for this material. As a result, I am returning my recently purchased blue/red LED panel and getting a light similar to the one you used.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Vadim Melnicuk glad I helped your decision.

[@TheHighConservative]

White light should have been at 8 1/2" according to your graph. 1:10 However, it would have been a more accurate test and yielded better results at 4" and 5 1/2", in my opinion. Great series. Thank you for taking the time. And don't worry about the assholes complaining about how much you talk. Your experiments are a journey and I love taking them with you. You're very informative and I appreciate every minute.

[@cassiowiemes]

which one do you think is better, 6000k or 3000k?

[@SlapJackAnon]

Thank you sir, for your great work and serious effort, you did a bang up job! Two questions comes to mind, -did you expect that the 3000K alone, from that early stage in plant life-cycle, would produce such "vigorous" growth? and secondly, what would you expect to have been different, had the initial 6000K been combined with the 3000k? -or just the 6000K alone? Greetings from Denmark

[@GrowingAnswers]

SlapJackAnon I wouldn't have expected that vigorous of growth, but I had anticipated it. What would happen with a 6000k is the plant would grow shorter and have tighter node spacing and more leaves most likely. Combining them would just help the stems get thicker and the plant overall, would grow larger

[@Sety777]

The plant under white lighting had at least 10x the amount of roots. Holy shit! Thank you for doing the experiment.

[@HalfQuickFarmer]

Great job. Good information easy presentation. Good show. Cheers

[@eugeniahobbs41]

This was a great experiment, you are a very intelligent person.

[@LazerLord10]

Now I want to do hydroponics, lol.

[@badr....]

Excellent job like all the 4 parts very helpful

[@DJTechnoboom]

how come it has bigger roots under white light? is there any IF or uv light in it?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Plants put in more mass with broad spectrum light.

[@DJTechnoboom]

@@GrowingAnswers ok thanx

[@matthewhernandez4933]

Hey Ryan, Sorry if you've answered this already, I tried reading through the comments and finding a similar question but couldn't find one. I was wondering what resources you used to find the equipment for growing hydropnically. I am looking to switch from soil (mostly because of the mess) but am not very sure where to start with making a simple system like the one you had going in this video. If you still happen to check these messages and can let me know some info I would really appreciate it. Have a good one, and thanks for sharing

[@GrowingAnswers]

Almost everything I got off amazon. The air pump, nutrients, net pots, rock wool, clay pebbles and the pink light. The containers you can get from anywhere. Just cut your own holes. Air tubing from any pet store or amazon. I got the white light from lighting ever.com, but I don’t recommend using that for many reasons. Also get urself a grow tent. 2x2 or 3x3. I like Apollo with the c-shaped single door. I hate the kind that have French doors. Nothing wrong with cheap tents. Just make sure it has metal corner joints and not plastic if bigger than a 2x2.

[@mightymite3958]

I got a 24" felt grow led light from Lowe's and I don't,notice any growth just greener, and th3 leaves are kind of curling at the edges, ive tried different distances right now it's 2.5' away , is it just a junk light?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Austin Gragg 30” is a bit far.

[@EricThompson-gs9ce]

Ryan, I have a full spectrum led bulb i got from the hardware store, but it still looks light purple when on. Should I rotate it with a cool white (5,000K) to get good results or will the full spectrum be enough?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Eric Thompson it should be fine.

[@dicephalous9076]

Im confused, what about kelvin rate? u not put that into observation ?u think a t8 cfl with 10000k is better than normal LED white with just 3000k ?

[@cityhunt3r]

Thank you for the video man! guess I'll be trying to diy my own grow light with 3000k led. Do you think 15 x 1 watt led will be enough for 40x60cm area? height will be adjusted to maintain the distance to plant at about 25cm.

[@GrowingAnswers]

TJ Ang 15 watts of light is enough for a very small plant. Grow area has no real bearing on that. In that case it's more about how much penetration you get through plant canopy. Small herbs would be fine.

[@cityhunt3r]

OrionA51 Noted. Thanks a lot for your kind explanation!

[@alvost6886]

Hi, I’ve been thinking about buying one of those lm301 quantum boards. And here I see you growing on these kind of cob spotlights. So my question is do the QBs worth the money or I can just get the similar light you’ve been using in these videos and get similar results? Thank you

[@GrowingAnswers]

Cobs are not used much these days. Quantum boards are more efficient in most cases

[@alvost6886]

@@GrowingAnswers Thank you for your reply. Really appreciate it

[@TakashiLikesMetal]

hey ryan. I heard these LED (especially the white one) can heat up to 200°F is it right? I want to get one of these to overwinter my pepper plants but I'm concerned it will get too hot and it stops working. have you had problems with the temperature?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Daniel Takashi I use a small fan to cool the light. These lights are not designed to be ran for many hours in stale air. Usually you will have a fan blowing on your plants anyway. most lights designed for growing are not driven at the full wattage that the led is capable of, but these are so to answer the question...yes. The center of the light where the cob is attached gets very hot without any air movement.

[@TakashiLikesMetal]

Thanks for your quick answer! I'm gonna research a little bit more before anything. Thanks for the info

[@Sety777]

LED lights wattage fluctuates depending on temperature, in hotter weather LEDs use less wattage and in colder weather they use more wattage I noticed.

[@midwestmangos2452]

@@Sety777 but the light output is lower in hot and higher in the cold as well. This is because at higher temperatures the led resistance drops (part of why led is constant current not constant voltage) so the wattage drops since you have lower voltage for the same amps which means watts=volts*amps meaning lower watts, however since the led is less efficient at those higher temps you get less light per watt. As an example with average cooling the cree3590 gives 2.7micromoles of light per watt at about 20-30 watts but at 70-85 watts that drops to 1.7 micromoles of light per watt, this is due to the higher temp at higher power which decreases efficiency. Those numbers may be off since I haven't looked into the specifics in a while but the basic idea still stands.

[@dougmorrison9603]

Hey Bob as a "new to growing" because doctor recommended I try it for medical reasons, I have to say your 4 part testing on the lights mainly, but even a bit on soil vs no soil and roots has help me to no end. As for your "time length" please understand this, for quote unquote "experts" maybe they think a couple were long. But honestly as a rookie I was like a sponge and appreciated the in depth explanations. So if you are doing to prove something to "experts" (I don't think you are) then ya maybe I need to keep looking for a You Tuber that cares more about helping those who really need the in depth video's then how long they take you to explain things. But for now I am hoping I've found the channel I've been looking for, as most I've found until now (I hope) care more (so it seems anyway) about getting hits and selling products or making money. I mean no disrespect to those channels at all, good for them, I wish them all luck. I have plans on checking out your Pryor and post videos from these four. Now if I haven't put you to sleep with my long comment here I would like to thank you so much for your help. Not sure if you even read the comments section, but if you do, thank you so much you have no idea how much help I need. Take care and God bless James from Canada.

[@stefanbachrodt7072]

Thanks for all the hard work man!! Just a few Qs. Did these flower / fruit and do you know if you were getting 360-400nm with that white light? Or any for that matter.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Stefan Bachrodt I don’t have a meter to tell me the wavelengths. I’d have to use a prism I guess, but that won’t give specific readings. I imagine the white light contains a low amount of intensity in the 400nm range. And yes they fruited a little, but because I didn’t adjust the solution for bloom, they produced very little. These lights are not strong enough to get much production. It’s just a small scale experiment to start with.

[@stefanbachrodt7072]

Ahh alright no worries, I noticed some manufactures will add 2 360-400nm lights to a batch of 200 others. I thought UVA was a vitally important aspect to plant life but apparently not. I'll still be getting myself a range of COB lights though, I've only ever heard good things, well except for the potentially lethal part, or the part where they could be used to listen in on your conversations, jip, that can be done. Thanks for the prompt response!

[@phemans]

That was great. Can I suggest that you do an experiment with solution temperature?

[@diogodias4789]

thanks man, I'm building my setup just for vegetative growth and I'm in doubt if I put everything to 6500k or a mix of 6500k and 3000k, can it help? only for the vegetative phase.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Diogo Dias 3000-6000k is fine

[@orion9k]

You want white light, anything between 5500 and 6500 Kelvin

[@jem02081]

nicely done, thanks

[@vincentzanotti1380]

From what I've researched (great videos by the way) Red and Blue light does some very special things: Red: Essential for chlorophyll production in photosynthesis. 600-700 stimulates stem elongation and fruiting in photo period plants (Cannabis & Flowering Short Day plants) Blue: Essential for chlorophyll production in photosynthesis. 300-400 stimulates compact growth and density (smaller and more compact plants (helps growers utilize space and develop a lower canopy, also helps reduce stretch with long day plants.) White light LED technology has opened doors for white light because the brighter, increased PAR due primarily to lamp placement (heat) and more complete spectrum (full band as opposed to two band). Efficiency along with heat reduction of white LED now makes this the next jump beyond HID lighting (or at least part of the solution towards improved efficiency, yield, and quality). I am doing some research on spectral quality and investigating the way that mixing spectral balance can help an indoor grower do "just right" for their plants of choice. I think we will end up with LED recipes, mixing combinations of light that will improve indoor grows, tailoring the light to the needs of a specific grow. I am also planning on researching and experimenting with spectral placement (Kelvin and specific nano-meter spectral placement. I'm sure someone is leaps and bounds beyond me in terms of what is known, but a big part of a grower's success is the journey. I bring it up here because I think you're going in the same direction with your studies. I have some ideas for home made lights that are SUPER easy to put together, and also give the grower the option to manipulate and interchange lights for conducting any type of experiment. Tyler (Hydrofarm guy) has some amazing videos on how light effects plants. Check them all out. Very interesting! The next experiments should be "how much of each?" in a side by side, by side, by side, by side (5 bays) grow with lights that grow two types of plants in separate bays. Ranging from 3000-4000k, 5000-6000k, Red & Blue, Red & Blue & White, and an equal mixture of all lights. Par 38 bulbs of equal wattage and satisfactory spectral makeup are available on Amazon. Just putting it out there because you are a well establish and respected contributor to KZbin already. In a way, I'm hoping you take my idea and do it before I do. I don't want the credit, I just want to see the someone grow the answers (haha). Cheers PS- Next step will be discussing UV and IR. Keep up the great work.

[@benfernance4936]

Hey mate have you checked out Shane from migro he has a bunch of awsome video's very knolegable man And the idea of adding UVB light in the flower stage to increase trichomes is very interesting 👍

[@taitheguy85]

Stumbled across this series by accident after looking at 28w e27 full spectrum bulbs vs 300w full spectrum grow lights. I'm already using a couple e27 cfl's & led's along with a 34w white led almost exactly like the one in these videos. Definitely going to keep using my big white light & just add some small full spectrum bulbs

[@baris222]

What type of white light should I use? warm white, cool white or daylight?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Baris Yilmaz warm white for general grow, daylight for vegetative.

[@johncarter2863]

+Random Ryan Shouldn't it rather be cool white for vegetative, or even 2x blue and 1x daylight LED combination? I'm thinking that in the springtime, when seedlings are emerging out in the wild, the Sun is still relatively low in the sky, thus deeper atmosphere at that lower angle, to weaken the red end of the spectrum, while the plant at that time of year sees predominantly blue sky? Brilliant video, by the way. You pitched your message perfectly for me to take in.

[@GrowingAnswers]

John Carter red light is dominant in spring and fall. As far as mixing colors go...don't bother. Just use white. Pretty much anything between 2500 and 6500k should be fine. I would consider 3500-4000k to be optimal. Blue light just keeps plants from reaching and stretching and works best for vegetative growth, but there no need to add blue. 5500-6500 white light is enough blue.

[@johncarter2863]

Thank you. I'll take your good advice.

[@ChristianFontana3000]

Random Ryan I'm very new at this so apologies if this is a Silly question - how can 3500 - 4000K be optimal for veg if Blue is in the 5000K range?

[@MrEmperor3]

Best video ever

[@rugmunch71]

Thanks man. You did a great job of making an understandable informative video, As of last summer there have been a new breed of LED light showing up at the home improvement chain stores and i just had to try them out. Bingo!!!!!! these suckers change EVERYTHING at a very low cost. A 6 yr old could grow his own strawberries in his bedroom.....Not that i recommend that but go for it if you like cleaning messes. Anyway the brand i seem to be using is a generic one called GT-lite. It's the same kind of Led that most of us have already installed in our homes that screw into any standard fixture but on steroids. Designed is changed. There isn't any cover over the hundreds of tiny Led lights and it's in the shape of a cone. They come in many different wattage's and shapes, that's just the type i chose. they range from 2000 lumens all the way up above 10,000 lumens for a single screw in bulb. They are made to light up barns and warehouses & such. At a cost of around $20 a piece i picked up 3 but only ended up needing 2 for my space to get good result's. The bulb I'm using is a 300 w equivalent 40w actual 5200 lumen 5000K cct daylight. I have strawberries flowering and set and a few other flowering species making flowers 6 weeks into my little experiment. These small compact light's are easily movable allowing me to have one over the top and one hanging lower to hit the bottom half of the plant more easily.....use your imagination . I would like you to try a video on these and take it further. Giving you a BIG thumbs up buddy.....side note... I'm a very experienced hobby grower...all the background you get

[@plumsmuglers]

very nice work.

[@gangagrow5722]

Great job mate, thanks

[@jaredparkes8556]

You knowledge is amazing and the detail is great. If I just want to use the lights for starting seedlings to a height of say 3 inches would a cool white light be best as it has more blue in it to make them "stocky"? Also would I be better to get say 100w lights higher up or a series of 20w lights lower down?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Jared Parkes color temp for seedlings is best 4000-6000k. honestly I don’t recommend the lights used in the video. They have poor heat sinks and the cobs go bad quickly. You’d need a fan blowing directly on them. Just get a few Sansi 15 watts or a single 40watt from amazon. Those will surpass the output of the lights in this video. I did a few videos on those lights if you want to know more.

[@jaredparkes8556]

Thanks. What PAR level would you recommend for seedlings to about 2 inches tall? I'm confused between what is recommended for full grown plants vs seedlings.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Jared Parkes about 300um. 700 and higher May burn them.

[@nikninja2233]

I've had great luck with a 30w blurple led, says it's equal to 300 but that I doubt, I've fitted a cabinet with the light and it has built in pc fans, putnsome foil stuff around the sides and its great for seedlings, they get nice and bushy, not tall, and have super strong stems, I've also noticed if I start my plants in the cabinet rather than the tent my plants will show some non glandular trichomes on their first few sets of true leaves, giving me a good head start on finding a terp profile I enjoy

[@nikninja2233]

Only issue I've had is with small heat issues once they get closers to the lights, also should've mentioned I do 12/12 lighting right after about 2 weeks of veg, I like small plants that produce about 5-10 grams, makes for more airflow through my 2×4 tent

[@jrmint2]

Wow! Big difference in the roots...this is quite a revelation...

[@MelonLemon007]

Hi Ryan, do philips t5 led 14 or 18 watts enough to grow greens from seedlings indoor? Such as lettuces, bok choy, etc. Thanks for your reply

[@GrowingAnswers]

Who Am I sure. Just as long as the lights or close. But you aren’t going to grow too much under that.

[@MelonLemon007]

Random Ryan hi, what do you mean by "aren't going to grow too much"? You mean the veg will not grow well?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Who Am I quantity. only what can be fit directly under the light.

[@MelonLemon007]

Random Ryan right, got it. Thanks, as long as it can replace sunlight, that will do for me

[@kinaesthesia824]

Ryan, thanks buddy, your 4 part series has been most informative. I always had my doubts about red/blue spec LEDs as opposed to white/full spectrum due to intensity of the light. There are now LED strip lights flooding the market here in South Africa, comes in 5 metre strips at 14.4w per meter SMD 5050 with 60 pieces per metre. 72 watts in total. 4:1 ratio with 4 red 1 blue... from what Ive seen, its been hyped up marketing for growing kits, (due to the legalisation of personal use of marijuana), but their biggest flaw is the lack of blue spectrum however the same in white is half the price. do you think the LED strips would give the same effect as a flood light? I'd love to see a video on that comparison of flood light to strips, (dunno if you get them in the states? ours is all chinese!lol). I am setting a kit up here, but its quite costly here in South Africa tho. I will happily share results once I have everything in place. Thanks again man, really appreciate the time yo uhave taken to do these videos.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Kinaestesia there are a few videos on strip lights and most of the time they are low PAR low power so mostly those are good for close proximity to small plants or seedlings. I don't feel red and blue is going to be any better than white when talking about low power consumption. strip lighting in general is not usually a good option for grow lights. The new led tubes that's replace fluorescent bulbs are superior to strips.

[@NoahNobody]

IKEA have released a grow light range. They did their own study to find out which light would be best, and think it is a ratio of 2 white to 1 red.

[@Kitchissime]

Yep! The Växer!

[@CocoKeb]

Thank you so so much, lots of info

[@alex0516-3]

does putting colored tissue paper under a LED light work? just a thought...

[@GrowingAnswers]

Alex The Noob no.

[@alex0516-3]

@@GrowingAnswers ok thx!

[@c.kc.k3830]

nice experience..explain the question detail..

[@cloud00nine]

thank you for the videos

[@derekamanwiththegivennamej1082]

is that a 1/2 tsp per litre of water or per gallon?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Derek a man, with the given name Johannessen should be per gallon.

[@i.apilado]

OK. Since you convinced me to hydroponics I'll grow my lettuce hydrophonically

[@namtoby5302]

can I use both white light and red blue light to grow flower and plant ? or just only one type ?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Yeah, but there is not much of a point to that. If you start arbitrarily adding more light of a specific wavelength, you'll end up over saturating

[@namtoby5302]

thanks a lot ;)

[@kfox5301]

Thanks for the vids man

[@tonytumminello2214]

Ryan., Love your scientific test on LED lights in Veg . I would be extremely interested if you did a LED test in Bloom/flowering using the LED lights. I actually have Viparspectra Par 700 dimmible lights and have never quite figured out the correct settings on the separate white, blue & red dials. Would love to see you do results on this particular light in Veg and flowering

[@GrowingAnswers]

Tony Tumminello kzbin.info/www/bejne/eamcYaF-ecxnldU

[@KitJBenn]

I love that phrase "cut to the chase" So I walk into the pound shop store what bulbs/ light do I need? It's not another scam is it?

[@benjaminandersen1097]

i wonder how much green and yellow light is needed to complete the needed spectrum for plants? im thinking what if you put a small, say, 10w white led together with the red/blue one, its still uses a bit less than the 50w full spectrum, maybe thats more efficient? IF plants only need a small amount of green, there might be a waste when using high wat white leds compared to red/blue with a little white to compensate.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Benjamin Andersen technically you don’t need pure green light at all, but scientific studies have tested this and using it gave various results. So the answer is...it depends. To cover some missing parts of the spectrum that plants do use, it’s easier to use a white light mixed with red/blue. Some say that about 15% green is enough. Too much and apparently it’s not good. but by saying green it doesn’t mean a single wavelength. Its a wider range in that spectrum. I’m testing this very soon actually.

[@benjaminandersen1097]

thank you for replying. makes sense what you say, also that the green it not a single wavelength, but a spectrum of light, being in the "not absorbed by plants" length. -which it turns out to be in some way. i recently saw a short clip from the iss(international space station) and by just the looks of it, their hydrophonic farm is certainly using something similar to the red\blue diodes, but also with a mix of what looks like a warm white. i know you cant tell by the looks of it, especialy on a video, but what was obvious was the purple light, and that it was not alone, i.e. there was also a white light, but it was much less bright. so, i believe mixing just a bit of white with the red\blue would be a win :) hope you do an update when you test it out! -best regards.

[@markrouse1477]

White is what I veg my tomato plants with. Red / Blue 3:1 ratio is for fruiting.

[@harrysmith6252]

how was the quantity and quality of the product though?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Harry Smith white led produced more normal tasting tomatoes and were slightly larger. Quantity was about the same.

[@davealsina3392]

Thanks bro, don't worry about tthe length when you're doind videos of this level

[@lorenhusky2717]

I love this experiment. Mostly because it proves that the closer to natural sunlight we keep the spectrum, the better it grows. That is a crushing victory for the white LED. The sun had it right all this time, who knew! Haha

[@Sety777]

Loren Husky My theory about white lighting being better for plants was correct all along.

[@northeastslingshot1664]

Loren....I created the first daylight white full spectrum in the industry in 2011. Daylight....high noon....june 21st summer sunshine. Your 100% correct

[@northeastslingshot1664]

@@Sety777 100%

[@you_are_soul]

All the high quality lights that use red a blue also use a complete white spectrum. All this shows is a complete spectrum is better than a truncated spectrum. However to do a true test you'd have to test a white 3000K Cob or quantum board against the same light with additional red and blue.

[@orion9k]

@@you_are_soul 3000 Kelvin is not white, its almost warm red, yellow ish...

[@solarguy1372]

What LED lights did you use?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Oregon Kickboxing Academy lighting ever and (r/b) zitrades

[@albizuis]

Awesome non-bias vid! High quality and I didn't think you talked too much. Question: 1.can you tell us the lumen output of the white vs red/blue? 2. Do you think my "American DJ RGB Panel " led lights would be comparable to the red/ blue lights you used? www.adj.com/profile-panel-rgb I'm trying to see if I can use these DJ lights as grow lights Many thanks

[@GrowingAnswers]

albizuis don't waste your money on that light. Super Cheap basic LEDs. It does have different colors, but its a very low quality, low wattage panel. The lumens will read much higher on the meter under the white light. Lumen is measuring more light in the green spectrum and the red/blue has practically none of that. Even if the red blue was 100watt, the 50 watt white will read higher lumen, theoretically anyway with those specifications.

[@jimbaber6221]

I sincerely appreciate your experimentation, your honest and forthright presentation of the facts your experiments have demonstrated. In parallel with what you have done, and the experiments I have run, our results are similiar... to a point. If I can suggest an experiment (understanding you do not like tomatoes, give away the resulting fruit to a local food bank): Perform the same grow, in hydro, with cherry tomato clones. Keep one under the 3000k 50 watt led start to end. Another under a 6500k 20 watt led for the first month (height adjusted for PaR), then introduce a 30 watt "red/blue" or even a warm 2700k led cob once you see blooms (in addition to the 20 watt 6500k). A red/far red dominant light will stunt a plants root structure, internodal lengths, and stem structure development during a vegetative stage. It will stretch, roots will stunt, it will ... well... suck... and never recover, using a spectrum color/blend of predominately red during vegetation stage (think incandescent bulb). Once flowers appear on my tomatoes, peppers, etc., red and far red are introduced at a ratio of 70% red dominant (2700k) and 30% blue dominant (6500k or higher), and the plant strength, stems, etc., remains strong, and fruit growth explodes at a rate of 4:1. Just my input. As far as light is concerned, never take away, only add.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Jim Baber thanks for your detailed comment. I am currently in process of ep2 in the new series growing under lighting as you described. Or at least similar. Ep1 has been very successful. Ep2 is soybean for is growth characteristics similar to Mary j. I have experience and understanding of the lighting types and phase switch overs. The experiments are to break down the reasoning into observable knowledge for myself and others. Even at the time of this video I was growing much larger and higher tech grows in the background (no co2 though). These 2016 vids were just to simplify the question of whether you can grow under fully under a static ratio of red/blue light and what happens.

[@jimbaber6221]

I appreciate the info. My experimentation has nothing to do with soy or mj, I am involved in work on indoor growing of food crops in urban food deserts at minimal costs. Growing of leaf crops (e.g. spinach, lettuce,etc.) is easy under 6500k. Flowering plants (e.g. tomatoes, squash, etc.) are harder for an urban household.

[@jimbaber6221]

And I didn't mean to demean your work, only to express what I am doing, Thank you for the work. It is valued.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Jim Baber I understand. Check out my lettuce video and you’ll find the info I’m talking about.

[@jimbaber6221]

If I may offer a simple opinion, unless your environment is totally sealed, and room temps are less than 90 degrees, co2 is a waste of resources, imho.

[@mylifezach]

What Kelvin is that white light at

[@GrowingAnswers]

snowflake 08 caddy think that was 3000k

[@chrisbryden6921]

I'd love to see this updated with more modern lighting. . High end blurples vs qb vs cob. etc.

[@GrowingAnswers]

That was from 2016. Here’s the updated version playlist. kzbin.info/aero/PLogUxCOrWb5wc17pCw6HZ3rwvM9xIKTAN. Also check out my maxbloom series playlist.

[@tonyboroni6949]

wite for stretch first stage of growth red and wite for fruiting

[@adventurious1234]

Nice....

[@winnoe]

This is best watched at 1.25x speed or 1.5x speed. At normal speed I kept shouting at Ryan to speed it up!!! Thanks for your hard work Ryan. More information is better than less.

[@DJTechnoboom]

i put 4 UVA in my mars 300 and 1 far red and 2 or 3 green high power and 3 yellow high power, mars hydro sent me 2 new blue diodes but they burnt out, they looked cool =,( i've noticed that if you make your own grow light, the blue diodes burn out easy so be careful with the blue's

[@happyg.444]

So this means I can grow a plant under a 20.00 flood light. This is a hell of a lot cheaper than a store brand CREE or COB light.

[@1fast72nova]

Did you ever try it?

[@happyg.444]

@@1fast72nova I ended up building a 300 watt light with the cheap Chinese 5 meter rolls with 3 x 3000k and 2 x 6000K diodes for roughly a 2 x 4 ft space.(50 bucks) I could get 1000PAR at 6" above canopy back then. lol Damn, that was a long time ago. Been DIY'ing lights ever since. The Vero 29 gen7's COB's are still very good diodes for today. I've built all kinds of different lights from home made QB's to the 301H bars with UV and IR controls since this video. lol

[@1fast72nova]

@@happyg.444 wow that's really cool, I've been thinking about building some lights lately. The most recent think I've tried are the 3000k 100w driverless QBs spaced 16" apart and between each one mounting a 50w pink "full spectrum " driverless LED in 10' sections, planning to run two wide down 4' wide runs 40' long. Does this sound viable? Or should I look at other options

[@ceramicmonster]

What brands of light were used?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Benjamin Morrison “lighting ever” and “zitrades.”

[@ceramicmonster]

Thanks for the quick reply! However, I can't seem to find the white light one at all. The “zitrades” red/blue I can, but the other is coming up with nothing online. Do you have a link? Thanks so much for the help!

[@GrowingAnswers]

Benjamin Morrison amazon for red blue, lighting ever or “le” website for the other. Just google le or lighting ever.

[@entyropy3262]

What is the white LEDs Kelvin value ?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Enty Ropy 3000k

[@entyropy3262]

Ty !

[@orion9k]

LoL 3000 Kelvin is yellow not white light 😂

[@louiesun6801]

green light is still needed, but not as much as the white light provide, 5% could be enough, we know the white light contains RGB 6:3:1, green light function is a kind of growing rethym, its necessary

[@taitheguy85]

Only thing that sucks is the light being only red/blue. Allotta ppl are switching from HID to led, but only after seeing results from full spectrum led's- with red/blue+white/uv & ir.

[@GulangUK]

weight? quality?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Check out my more up to date series.

[@andybroberg7946]

this is more scientific. you hit the nail on the head on the hydro vs soil comparison as well. thers a reason all the records are hydro and the same method (dwc with HEAVY air) and a small backup pump

[@claus5097]

Where can I get the white LED? Any links maybe?

[@claus5097]

I'm growing chili plants and are having are time even thinking white LED grow light

[@claus5097]

I can see you posted which one u used, but also that it got really hot because it wasn't made for growing. Can you recommend any white LED grow light that doesn't require a fan?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Claus Dall lightingever.com. You don't really need a fan, but it will make the light last longer. You should be using a small fan anyway if you are growing a plant. For the plant itself.

[@claus5097]

Thanks, ​Ryan. And you wouldn't buy LED strips? I found one with about 18 LED's, 540 lumen and 3500 K. Would you go with 3500 K or 5000 K?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Claus Dall 540 lumen is very dim for plants. Maybe seedlings, but strips generally produce minimal light output. They simply don't have an inherent way to dissipate heat and therefore can only consume a fraction of a watt each so they don't burn out. Because they spread the light energy over a large area, they can only be good for short or low light plants. Strips are hardly good enough for low light aquarium plants. the kelvin really doesn't matter that much either. vegetative should be 5000-6000k, but 3500k would work just fine.

[@GamingKeenBeaner]

I strongly suspect there's some serious differences in nutrient uptake based on the spectrum. Trying this experiment in other growth mediums would help clarify the results. I've seen plenty of purple COB grows that don't make floppy plants with no roots. It would be worth testing more varieties of plants too. Still, its an interesting test, thanks for uploading it. I've purchased the COB chips these use and will be running them in fixtures with 3 chips in each; one 6000K and two "full spectrum"(aka "blurple"). The blurples are much stronger in their red output thant their blue output and the two combined should make for a nice amount of UVA too.

[@orion9k]

Read the comments, so much wrong info floating here... People keep saying 3000 Kelvin is white light, it's not white, it's yellow... you need 5500-6500 Kelvin if you want white daytime light.. even the host of the channel is saying this

[@GamingKeenBeaner]

@@orion9k Please do some reading about how Correlated Color Temperature is calculated; the CCT of two different bulbs could hypothetically be the same and yet both could be a combination of completely different wavelengths. Some bulbs at 3000K CCT are definitely more "white" than others despite essentially putting out similar color of light overall.

[@orion9k]

@@GamingKeenBeaner images.app.goo.gl/qJPX4ka8ZQatUKfo8 clearly 3000 kelvin is not white, at all.

[@orion9k]

@@GamingKeenBeaner images.app.goo.gl/3X1XJK141t3gQSho6 also

[@orion9k]

@@GamingKeenBeaner images.app.goo.gl/Pg5yjMTdfSr5ozqN9

[@themartian754]

The red and blue light covers a larger area than the white lights.

[@mikespry8259]

Wanted to say great video! , I'd like to see the exact experiment with cannabis , I'd like you to keep in mind that many of us have height restrictions and vertical growth is necessarily what we want , most growers want horizontal growth accompanied by LST , super cropping, and scrogging , or sog (same principal) , here's what I've noticed , cobs r unbeatable n horizontal growth (clones) but I still see better horizontal growth using the old blurple lights , so its all dependant on style of growth , my old vipar has better yeilfs when scrogging , than my 500$ cree from timber , please do another video cause I'm only going from observation from 1 strain (indica) also maybe expand on both indica n sativa reaction to different lighting , FYI 99% of those watching these vids r cannabis growers , maybe not your intention but from this grower I love these vids , stay groovy bud!

[@GrowingAnswers]

mike spry thanks. I will be doing more red/blue led type videos in the near future. Not with weed though. I’d lose my job.

[@mikespry8259]

Random Ryan , that's tough my brother , cause your videos are the best n most informative I've seen on the subject , f the haters man, while I agree n principal like I stated earlier , there's variables I'd love to see tested , wish I could help test bro but I'm to paranoid to post cannabis stuff (y I'm using a buds phone that doesn't use weed lol! , keep it going bro , n as always stay groovy!

[@intravena]

The one of the left looks 5 times bigger than the one on the right, does this mean the white light is 5 x better?

[@GrowingAnswers]

intravena lol. Not really.

[@federic1470]

THEN what conclusion do you get ?

[@GrowingAnswers]

Federic Rodz the conclusion is that while plants can grow under the only 2 main wavelengths that is said to be mostly what they need, the other missing wavelengths play a bigger part than people may realize. Even if the other colors are little in ratio.

[@federic1470]

then sound like that all that we know about the light and plants is nothing compared with this conclusion. Because the most growligth are focused to red/blue wavelength.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Federic Rodz sort of. Cheap grow lights favor only red and blue. Middle to high end incorporate other wavelengths and even some white LEDs. High end lights usually favor flowering unless they have dual modes. This is an arguable topic and we will start seeing more white LEDs used for grow as they developed. Adding more of another color such as red, is usually helpful for flowering stages in plants, but having a broad spectrum all the way through the growth process will yield similar results. It all depends on the spectral output. Not all white LEDs are the same. We know plenty about plants and their response to light wavelengths. The problem with LEDs used for grow lights is that their is so much versatility that engineers and botanists go crazy with tuning lights and claim its best. The sunlight changes its color depending the time of day and time of year. Trees are the most noticeable by anyone when fall comes around and they drop leaves. So by changing the spectrum you manipulate plants to grow how you see fit. We can do this very precisely with LEDs, but for the sake of simplicity, white light takes the guesswork out of it. Any white light source is going to be a sure way to grow. That way many people don't have to research what the best pink light is or worry how well a cheap eBay light will work. It's hard to go wrong with basic white light.

[@izzzzzz6]

It would be interesting to see the difference between daylight LED and pure white LED. And also try to do an experiment where there is a mix of red, blue and white.

[@GrowingAnswers]

izzzzzz6 I did. Watch the lettuce video on my channel.

[@izzzzzz6]

Saw that after i wrote that, and the the red & blue + White LED video. Very interesting. I tried DWC once but the roots went all mouldy and i think i had a gnat infestation, they were crawling through the clay pebbles. Too hot in the room, not enough water changes in the beginning.

[@michaelbiri6676]

Hey Ryan, Just to make sure that it is the green light spectrum why not add a Green LED Light System into the Red light Environment to see if that would "Balance" it out, or if perhaps the UV/IR actually make the difference, by having a 3rd chamber with RedBlue and UV/IR lighting.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Adding green light to red and blue just makes white. Depending on how much of one color you add, determines the color temperature then. The difference in growth would be comparable to white light, but creating white light that way will not generate a broad spectrum the same way as white led or any white light for that matter.

[@michaelbiri6676]

well its interesting how the Red light and Blue light affect various aspects of the growth process, so the Green light has also some affect for the stem. Thus I was thinking if one places green light to assist the stem to grow stronger one would create a wholistic light that targets particular areas of the plant that need various light

[@GrowingAnswers]

Michael Biri I don't think targeting is necessary. If sunlight is closely replicated, plants do the rest. However some led lights are less intense so supplementing wavelengths can be helpful. Plants evolved to use and respond to all wavelengths even if only tiny amounts. Targeting becomes pointless though because color leds typical only put out one wavelength. ex- plants may like 670nm more than 680. You would need many bands if spectrum to start targeting and at that point you might as well use white light. supplemental is ok, targeting is not needed unless you are trying to alter something specifically.

[@AbrasionUK]

Is no one gonna mention how ludicrously photogenic this guy is?

[@caxxxx8936]

please do white led vs fluro

[@GrowingAnswers]

Here the deal with that... I already checked the PAR output of 2, 23watt CFl's with a reflector. At 3 inches from the lights it was only 300uml. The white single cob led is around 2000uml at that distance. At around 8 inches from the led it hovers around 300uml. So while the plants would respond well to the spectrum under either light type, the penetration would be very poor under cfl and even worse under tubes. It would be fine for plants under 2ft tall, but led will always perform better if comparing taller plants. There is no need for experiments like this as the facts tell the tale as well as there being several videos on that subject already. Thanks for the comment!

[@rogerjalsich3504]

Man thamks a million , a girl last night told me not verbadum but alot of what you just said , but it was a girl so i didnt give her the crefit she deservedin my head eh , but ya i got these two 100 watt, 5000 kelvin Led white light , but all the smartypants , know it alls , the dawn wans of growing things didnt have a clue , they were to busy makin fun of me ...just to stupid really... but thanks again and to that lsdy ast night ...good girl thank you , you know your shit lady , and i wish i could remember your name ...damn marijuana memomory .... lol

[@JensRoland]

That's very interesting - and surprising. That would imply that white LEDs are 6x as efficient watt-for-watt as CFLs, which seems almost improbable given that the light spectrum shouldn't be *that* different (both being phosphorous based as you mentioned). Is the heat loss 6x higher in CFLs? That doesn't seem right either. I don't doubt your measurements are accurate, I am just trying to understand how the difference could be so dramatic. At 200 umol/m2/s it's hard to imagine anything other than lettuce growing under a pair of 24W CFLs, and yet there are plenty of T5 fluorescent grow armatures on the market which spread those same 48W over an even larger surface area than a typical 2xCFL reflector (ie. 2 foot tubes). Is it possible that a single point measurement at a distance of 3in puts the CFL+reflector setup at a disadvantage, due to the directional cone of the LED versus the CFL's omnidirectional light spread across a larger reflector surface? I am just theorizing here. I imagine the PAR output from the COB LED might be significantly stronger in the center of its cone but drop quickly as you move the sensor out to the sides (which is ideal if you want to illuminate a single plant). By contrast, it might be that the CFL reflector spreads the light more evenly across its cone, giving less intensity to the center but a less steep gradient/dropoff in the 'corners' (which would be wasteful in a single-plant setup, but make it suitable for a grow bed with 6 or 8 plants spread out). Not having a PAR meter I can't verify this, but it might explain part of that 6x difference between the CFL and COB LED. Or what do you think? Am I missing something obvious?

[@indoororchidsandtropicals358]

I bet if you dimmed the white to pull 38 watts and added two more red and blues, the led would do better. Single red and blues don't work well. You need at last two blues and two reds like 420, 450, 630 and 660 because the chlorophyll a and b, carotenoids etc peak at different wavelengths. Adding a few other colors like a bit of yellow and a bit of green (it's a myth that plants reflect all green light- see bml horticulture) would improve the performance even more. That being said, if I needed to choose between these two lights only, it seems that the white one would be the obvious choice.

[@AsIsStuff]

Wouldn't it be the best choice to use these two lamps together?

[@indoororchidsandtropicals358]

Of course it would, but you'd have to switch them around so the plants could get equal light from each, but oh my goodness..these lights are like 70$ each (if I remember correctly) and there are a few very good looking LEDs on Amazon right in this price range that include multiple reds, blues, etc and I'd very much like to see a comparison done with one of those vs this white light. I've got videos of my grow room setup on my channel. Now...ive got a Mars II 1200 that is 550 watts and is about 500$, but I could just as easily get four of the smaller ones to light the same area and spend less. I got the Mars for free, so I can't really complain, but when I need to expand my growing area, I'll be getting smaller ones and running them side by side to light a narrow rectangular area since that is the easiest way to grow orchids.

[@AsIsStuff]

You can get such a LED on a driver chip for a little bit over $10 from aliexpress. So, my thought was to use two of such LEDs just in something 2-3 inches from each other simultaneously as a single panel. I had some previous experience raising tomato seedlings with these purple LEDs. They showed, however, some signs of lacking blue spectre as I can see now. The idea now is to use one cold white LED to compensate for the lack of blue, and one red-blue LED. The question is: maybe there are some better alternatives?XD

[@Bulgar1us]

led its 3000k or 6000k?

[@GrowingAnswers]

ek3ekyTop1 the white is 3000k

[@orion9k]

@@GrowingAnswers what the hell are you saying xD 3000 Kelvin is yellow, not white... are you trolling people with false info?

[@orion9k]

@@bluemystic5666 3000 is orange/yellow 5000 is yellow/white 5500 white and 6000 white blue or cold white

[@orion9k]

@@bluemystic5666 images.app.goo.gl/8ozVfAjnzNLtpPF5A

[@orion9k]

@@bluemystic5666 bro... kelvin and light colors can't be flexible. And to add more knowledge into the science, the color of light also depends on the surface color. The only way to really see the true color of light, you need it to reflect on a white surface ✌ Eat mushrooms my friend🍄🍄🍄

[@Masfeo1792]

All the videos in these series were great. I've learn a lot. Thank you my man! Of course I'm suubed! PD: You look a lot like Iker Casillas (the ex-goalkeeper from my country, Spain)

[@whatthefunction9140]

retest with lettus

[@apple-on5pq]

Its because the white led light gives a wider range of colour spectrum than just blue and red led lights. The reason why those manufactures are puahing red/blue led grow light is because they are cheaper to make.

[@budgetking2591]

But who all led manufactures for growing lights use red/blue lights? No1 ever botherd to test this???

[@wilbermorales7137]

I know

[@ThePirateWhiteBeard]

I have one suggestion.... TIMESTAMPS!

[@orion9k]

I don't get it... the difference between the two is significant, so why the hell are the purple lights so popular and even used in the industry?

[@davidporowski9512]

Thank you for your trouble to bring this video to YT.

[@TheLitesol]

Nice video. I have been growing with "white light" led's for almost 3 years now. Check out AMARE Technology. They are a premier LED Grow light company.

[@user-nd2zc3um8y]

My advice ...dont use clip mic because the sound is too crispy

[@chapultepec]

Excelent experiment execution and carefulness. I wish the next experiment would be comparing two grow lights, one using sun light and other using purple fullspectrum light, or just the same experiment but adding a low wattage white light to the red blue light.

[@GrowingAnswers]

chapultepec I don't know if that would matter. That's why I made sure the amount of light reaching the plants was measured and adjusted appropriately. Wattage doesn't matter. Hypothetically You can take a 200 watt halide and place it 4 feet from the plants and then a 23 watt cfl at 6 inches and it would be the same. Well sort of. Those numbers are just a guesstimate.

[@chapultepec]

I understand, I meant to put another light and adjust the height so that the plants recieves the same amount of micro-mole but replacing a few micro-mole of red-blue whith fullspectrum white light. The other think i would like to see is a test of thwo real grow lamps, one made with cob white led and the other made of fullspectrum purple light.

[@253720881]

is the white led a bright white or a off white

[@GrowingAnswers]

253720881 slightly yellow-ish hue.

[@253720881]

thanks man your info has helped a lot

[@thisunity]

Modern LED grow lights commonly have not only red and blue, but white, orange, UV, IR, green as well. I think it's time to try a REAL LED grow light :P

[@paulajademercolita367]

is that a flood light? hehe. coz i only see flood light same as that.

[@GrowingAnswers]

Yes, but even most led panels are considered flood. Putting a lens over a cob will give more focused intensity, but most plant growing benefits from more uniform light rather than a beam.

[@paulajademercolita367]

Random Ryan hmmm, i have grow light the red/blue, can i add white led strips lights, together in one box? ty for ur reply

[@GrowingAnswers]

Paula Jade Mercolita sure. Some white light is better than none.

[@paulajademercolita367]

Random Ryan thanks :) :)

[@randomsgguy8831]

If the full spectrum LED is better, why does people still uses red&blue light? I mean when I google LED Grow light, almost all the results show are red&blue.

[@GrowingAnswers]

RandomSGguy I think you missed the part where I said this wasn't about comparing other leds that have other colors besides just red and blue. this is only 2 wavelengths specifically. (2 bands). Other typically have 7-11 bands and/or mixed with some white leds.

[@randomsgguy8831]

But you are comparing White LEDs with Red & Blue LEDs. And the results shows that the White LEDs performed better than just the 2 wavelengths. Why does grow light in the market still only use the 2 bands?

[@GrowingAnswers]

RandomSGguy hardly any are sold using just the 2 bands. Most that have just the 2 bands are cheap products. The ones that are better have a mix of colors with white led mixed in also. It will still appear a pink light, but it most certainly is not just 2 colors of light.

[@randomsgguy8831]

Now I understand, thanks for explaining!👍🏻

[@mikespry8259]

Oh yeah , full disclosure , I'm on my boys phone , so cops can kick his door n not mine lolo9olololol

[@staroxno]

+ OrionA51 My good man the creator of this video! PLEASE can you repeat the same process, but this time with normal grow light chips?!! P L E A S E... The R.B light that you used are cheap shit with all the respect to you like a person, but lights are awfull!!!! So could you please use some of those instead? Full Spectrum 380Nm-840Nm 100W 32-34V 3500mA 2000-2100LM Colors: Pink, Blue, Red, Deep Red, Royal Blue, UV, IR There is full specs for those chips... The factory name are : Hontiey 380Nm-840Nm 50W 32-34V 1700mA 1000-1100LM 30mil US $8.92 380Nm-840Nm 50W 32-34V 1700mA 1650-1750LM 45mil US $11.62 380Nm-840Nm 100W 32-34V 3500mA 2000-2100LM 30mil US $14.24 380Nm-840Nm 100W 32-34V 3500mA 3000-3500LM 45mil US $18.52 www.aliexpress.com/store/product/High-power-LED-chip-Grow-light-380Nm-840Nm-1W-3W-5W-10W-20W-30W-50W-100W/2188100_32673210204.html

[@Roadghost88]

Man this is one windy explanation. Funny how so many people theorize that plants only really need red/blue but when the actual experiments are done plants under white are always healthier. Then follows a desperate attempt to rationalize why the red/blue experiment failed. Apparently the science is not all in on why more than red/blue light is needed.

[@promophobe69]

He gets to the point at 10:19. Dude, keep your video on point. the other stuff is very useful but save it for other videos.