White Scars Legion Review for Warhammer The Horus Heresy - Heresy Hammer

[@jw7500]

Nice episode fellas, few things though. 1. The White Scars "extra dice for seizing" stacks with the Recon Company rite "re-rolls for seizing", meaning you essentially have 4 dice to roll a 6 on. 2. Getting big man Khan into outflank is a real hassle as almost all ways to get things into outflank don't work on him (thanks rules team, also for WS7) 3. Rapiers are underrated but pretty good in Scars (they also get outflank in Chogorian Brotherhood) 4. Do note that the Command Squad for White Scars om regular Spatha bikes is really good as it's only a 10 points per model upgrade, but get the 2+ save and don't have heavy.

[@OmegaIdiot]

How are sphatas specificly good for WS tho? Wouldnt that fit all legions?

[@UntiltedName]

So many of the legion weapons that are power weapon alternatives and only go on SGTs or higher could benefit by being able to go on "chosen warrior" models as well. It wouldn't crack the game wide open to allow Vets and Command Squads to use them. At the same time it would allow you to dial your legion flavor up to 10 for that squad.

[@heresyhammer]

Totally agree, would love to see it.

[@tav5771]

If you take Qin Xa, all the members of the Tartaros command squad he joins can take power glaives. But that's really an exception to the rule

[@cerrilove700]

Ran a full Sagyar Mazan list to an event last weekend, doing it again 2 weeks. 100 Infanty including 20 Despoilers and 20 Assault Marines. People say Sagyar is broken. It is good, but if you dont play killpoints then its basically just the FNP buff

[@magicianman534]

I'm thinking that Tybalt Marr with his brutal Aquila iconography is a *really* good base for converting a chaplain. Just need to scrape off the eyes and find him a new head and wepon.

[@heresyhammer]

Yeah I think we'll see a lot of these recent characters being converted, I certainly have plans for a few of them!

[@marcoghiotti7153]

Lee's intro is just magnificent

[@heresyhammer]

Why thank you 😂

[@alexandergraf179]

Storms fury discipline gives up to fleet 4 to any unit within 6". Combine fleet 4 with charge bonus of jetbikes and cyber hawk, you suddenly will pass 12" charges on a roll of 4 😉. Also fleet 4 adds to the movement made by reactions as well.

[@CygnusMaximusXIII]

Like Lee said, Cyber hawks make any plasma weapons in a White Scars army REALLY good - it's a bit of an odd one, but an Armistos Consul with a plasma cannon and cyber-hawk in a Support Squad with plasma guns is absolutely brutal. And in Sagyar-Mazan, they have a 5+ feel-no-pain and don't give up VPs. It's insanely good. I'm also playing around with Nullificators and a Primus Nullificator with disintegrators and a cyber hawk. It might actually be decent!

[@heresyhammer]

Fucking cyber hawks 🙄😂

[@CygnusMaximusXIII]

I should also point out that power glaives are not two-handed

[@CaptainPlunk]

Some rules feel weird in WS imo: - The shamshir bike is a downgrade from the basic scimitar bike: its slower than the scimitar (why is that in the speed legion...), it grants a 2+ save but all the unit that can take this already have a 2+ save, the range weapon is bad, you lose deep strike (big big cons compared to basic bike) - golden kehsig having heavy is so crap... They are supposed to be fast but are slow x) and you will never be able to get the shroud cause if this The hold the line restriction is super hard, it forces you to invest a lot of points on this unit to make it worthwile: the libby ti prevent the hold the line, the chaplain to make them more reliable... Plus the low numberof attacks mean you will struggle to deal with elite infantry One small trick that can help is adding some shotguns on your HQ and hoping to trigger the concussive - as saidd below the Khan can't get outflank as he is not infantry... There is also a weird interaction with his jetbike: as he is considered to be cavalry you can use the primus apothecary FNP on him. The "combo" is to join him with only a primus so you will have T6 and fnp 5+ with them, try to hide them as much as possible and use the primis to challenge stuff and hit with the khan - the sagyar aremy is a bit crappy as it can break the game if you play fully infantry army in a KP missions, not a great way to write rules if you just can't win before starting the game - for the stormseer, the obvious choice is the telepathy over the top spells (they really need to balance this...) but you can use the WS fleet one in whatever order you prefer: first move your units then use the speel or the other way around to get the fleet on the charge - ebon keshigs are so disapointing... Why the WS4 and why don't they have any dedicated transport, they are super hard to play in sagyar cause of that They will only kill basic units, whats the point of this, you'd better get a command squad - the traitor warlord trait is stupid as WS don't have a good alliance level with SOH, your SOH won't get line whereas if you take SOH main and WS ally it works... Overall WS is a medium legion, the legion trait is meh, reaction very good, unique units are bad to ok Thanks for the vid ;)

[@mikefrench178]

I run Stoic Defender on my Warlord. Add him to a squad of jetbikes with Volkite and you have a lot of pinning shots. Never had an issue with terrain. No Sicaran, it's not a flyer.

[@ASHRID5150]

I run Born to Saddle with my Chog. Bros. and always lose Outriders to terrain every game Are you Mike from the old Heresy 30K forums?

[@sonsofvulkan]

My current mini white scar force is saygar mazan force with tsolmon Khan as how it works the sisters of silence get the Karash and feel no pain as in detachment 🤷🏻‍♂️ it is fun but do throw in some stuff so opponents can get VP

[@ASHRID5150]

Are you running Tsolomon on foot or on a bike in since he can't join any Kharash units since he's Unique (as per latest FAQ)

[@TheKhagan620]

note that Tsolmon khan doesn't get Kharash or FNP, as per the faq he is unique and therefore doesn't benefit so would be unable to join any units!

[@taffeh]

nice walkthrough. I'd love for someone to tell me how you get The Khan in an Flanking Assault though to use Lightning from the Blue Skies. There was a lot of debate on how this could be done in the early days of 2.0 and seemed a bit of a miss.

[@BlastastiC]

Great point about the imperial iconography on traitors. I've tried to keep a bit of that with my traitor titan legions for Titanicus. In their minds they WERE the Imperium - the true Imperium as they saw it.

[@TheKhagan620]

Great review of the Vth. A few corrections - you can't put apos with golden keshig or falcons claws (see the apo rules as they are specific as to what they can go with), there is almost no way to give the Khan outflank sadly and he doesn't come with a rule that allows him to, and tactics wise you are massively sleeping on the stormseer fleet powers which will give your assault marines/jetbikes +8 in total to charge distances with a cyber hawk and not to mention you are right in the enemies face turn 1 before you then pop the legion reaction and pen them in there deployment zone. The Dark Sons of Death are sadly massively overcosted and the rage buff is complete misnomer as they have 1 less attack than regular destroyers and you need to outnumber to even get that benefit, sadly you are better off in just about every scenario taking regular destroyers.

[@medheadful]

Holy crap. Its because they can't upgrade their jetbike because they aren't an independent character??? That seems like a huge oversight to me. Well looks like you're spending even more points in the unit with a primus medicae!

[@stu_gibson]

Am I right in thinking, you can't join Apothecarys to Golden Keshig squads, but you CAN join a Primus Medicae to them?

[@Jason-gq8fo]

Well this made me want to do white scars even more than I already wanted do. Only annoying thing is no heavy support

[@ASHRID5150]

Couple of points: Jaghatai doesn't have the Outflank rule so there are [currently] only two ways to get him into Outflank. One is mounted joined with a unit of Outriders and the other is on foot in a LR Proteus Explorator. Golden Keshig cannot be joined by an Apothecary as Apothecarion detachment can only join Scimitar units - so you would need to use a Primus Medicae [in addition to the Chaplain*] - The lance limitations mean GK suffer against Terminators as whatever you don't kill on the charge (7 models max) will just delete you when it fights back. *There is a case to be made that the Apothecary joins the Chaplain on Scimitar which then join the Golden Keshig..... The power glaive in v2 suffers hugely from the loss of the 2-handed/AP2 profile which means Ebon Keshig/Qin Xa's command squad are at a massive disadvantage against other Terminators - just like the Golden Keshig

[@heresyhammer]

Nice, great points mate 🤙

[@depthcharge126]

White scars have some pretty nutty rules. Saygar Mazan gives you FNP, fearless, and then no VPs to your opponent for units they kill, which can greatly affect secondary/primary objectives to the point it’s broken. Their advanced reaction is super submarined with how good it is. Consider this: you can take plasma bikes or other scouting units to get within 12” of your opponent quite easily T1, double tap, then escape 16” from the assault. Or you can completely shift your army away from an assault element later in the game. I’ve had this done to me at Adepticon for the heresy event, and it continues the theme of unbalanced loyalists reactions, despite them being quite cool/fluffy. Unless you are facing a supremely shooty traitor player, White Scars can really trounce assault armies.

[@CygnusMaximusXIII]

And those plasma cannons can re-roll those "Gets Hot" 1s if there's a character with a cyber-hawk in the unit. They're just amazingly good in that way, and the advanced reaction more than makes-up for a sub-par Legion Trait!

[@mikefrench178]

Sagyar is a Great ZM list.

[@TheKhagan620]

great review. sadly you can't put an apo in the golden keshing or falcons claws (see the apo rules as they limit where they can go), also the khan can't outflank save in a super niche scenario with perhaps another consul as he doesn't have the outflank rule. I think you are massively underestimating the stormseer fleet power, fleet 4 is not to be underestimated with running or plus 4 to charge distance coupled with the a cyber hawk and high movement, you are guaranteed a 10 inch charge... also just running means you are penning the enemy in and then triggering your legion reaction causing utter chaos.

[@FloorSweepersUnion]

Use some of the patreon money to shout Rob another set of those paint racks! They’re rammed ;-) love your work x

[@heresyhammer]

😂😂😂

[@medheadful]

Haha! I've bought more I just haven't got round to putting them up!

[@IVIaskerade]

Isn't Jaghatai's 3d6 fall back on his bike for his hit and run?

[@erih2934]

WS are in reality like in the lore - underestimated and under represented by the Empire/GW :P ...and you just missed out on last weeks announcement of the new character Hibou Khan :) I just wished that GW would take the time and finally do some new bike characters for them. Love their style, the Khan is brilliant in lore and as model. They are probably the legion I like the most (not my favorite legion though, I'm loyal to my flawed arrogant bastards from the First in that regard) - and at least in HH GW has understood that they are worth the attention.

[@heresyhammer]

We recorded the morning they released the new WS model so missed it, sods law really 🤷😂

[@Hoptroffshobbies]

Yeah my favourite loyalist legion… Hai Chogoris

[@mikefrench178]

Oi oi nerds

[@M0U53B41T]

IG not doing stuff by date is seriously fucking annoying