Whitehack: OSR DnD Book Review

[@QuestingBeast]

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[@MrYancakes]

The page of randoms numbers makes this potentially prison viable, since dice and other randomization mechanics aren't allowed in prisons (though in some places role playing games are banned outright).

[@virolo1960]

Playing cards would also work.

[@MrYancakes]

@@virolo1960 many prisons also don't allow cards, or anything that carries a risk of gambling. It varies from institution to institution I'm sure, especially in the US, which is not where I live. (Side note, I was super confused for a sec because my 3 year old is named Virgil lol)

[@fuzer909]

@@MrYancakes Suprisingly I hear chess is played a lot in jail and prison.

[@blankmike4613]

@@MrYancakes any dice, cards, or hand signing are big No no's at California correction centers. Well, at least during my 43 month enforced visit. (the 90s).

[@trollge3712]

@@fuzer909 i bet that causes less problems than dice games would

[@daegannlongstrider1293]

Woah, that random number page is like a super ramped up version of the ones you could find on the old Joe Dever style choose your own adventure books. Cool

[@Parker8752]

Just as a note, only one of the groups for the Deft characters applies to all stats (note how it says you must choose a vocation at level 1 and that vocation isn't assigned to any one stat?) - I'm guessing that's basically to represent stuff like thieves guild training or the like. Edit: also, I see that the weapons are ludicrously heavy compared to their real life counterparts - typical weight for a one handed melee weapon would be 2-3lb, with two handed weapons maybe getting as high as 7-8 for the really hefty ones. Yeah, I know, the ones listed here are the old school weights, but those weights were literally just a result of the designers of D&D not knowing how much a sword weighed. I think that would be the first thing I would house rule.

[@TheShadowKarl]

I bought this book off your recommendation three years ago and I have a few other systems I love that I found on your channel and on one other but this system is still one of my favorite if not my most favorite. This small book is so packed with great information it has become one of my most prized RPG books and I have a lot still although I got rid of a ton when I found this one and a couple of other great books based on your reviews and the Dungeon Craft channel.

[@Pokarface7]

Oh my, which games did you get rid of and why!?!? Which games do you play from our collection?

[@captainnolan5062]

Are you going to review the Third Edition of Whitehack?

[@ryandavis4936]

im running 5td, though i do thirst for a more freeform magica system, Im happy with the rate of innovation in tabletop right now

[@kpkilljoy7080]

Hey Questing Beast - the random number pages were common in the old Fighting Fantasy / Lone Wolf sytle books. FF had a random pair of dice at the bottom of each page, Lone Wolf (or ws it Fabled Lands...?) had a page of random numbers.

[@Parker8752]

I don't recall that about Fighting Fantasy - was that something added to the reprints? I do remember the RNG page from Lone Wolf though.

[@fparnaby8366]

@@Parker8752 Steve Jackson's Sorcery books definitely had them.

[@Splozy]

I remember this too

[@Avenger222]

Thank you so much! I found the book a bit difficult to parse, but you did such a good job explaining things. I appreciate it.

[@0qualifications193]

This might just end up being my go to OSR game, thanks for the recommendation!

[@pspboy7]

I like the attack mechanic a lot. Simple system using a ever decreasing window of success based on attacker's level of expertise and opponent's defence.

[@Puntosmx]

Wow. The mechanical system sounds very interesting. Thank you for bringing attention to this book :D

[@Puntosmx]

15:30 Not D&D, but the random tables are a staple of Lone Wolf book series. It's a great idea ^_^ For the Kai!

[@ianfletcher6039]

The dynamic between the AC and AV is spot on clever system design. Love it! My copy is in the mail right now. Related to this, I would note that this game is *not* available in pdf, and the designer/publisher has made it clear he has no intent of changing that.

[@dansampaio100]

I think it's a shame it will not be avaible on pdf, it would make the game even more accessible. I live in Brazil and it would cost a lot to import the game.

[@elrafa964]

@@dansampaio100 That comment was from two years ago. You can totally buy a PDF now :)

[@dansampaio100]

@@elrafa964 Good to know! I'm glad the creator of the game decided to release a pdf version.

[@JohnSmith-zf1lq]

Excellent review format. Clear, concise, consistent.

[@cawlin1]

Great little game. Have run two campaigns and a few one-shots thus far. The unique character creation is probably the best part of Whitehack - takes about 10 mins to create characters of almost any sort - your players will love it.

[@e21f1f2]

Colin Sproule how many sessions were these campaigns? does the game feel like it has longevity?

[@cawlin1]

One was 4 sessions the other about 10 (ran Deep Carbon Observatory). I think running a longer campaign would be fun - especially with focus on building the world around the "groups" mechanic. Its important to figure out if your players are excited about the open ended player creation and magic. Progressing a character and making them awesome relies on more imagination from the player which could be fantastic for some players while others would prefer to have tables etc. Whitehack lends itself very well to sandboxed adventuring. Prep is easy, rules are simple to remember and world building in collaboration with players is part of the guts and spirit of Whitehack.

[@e21f1f2]

Colin Sproule thanks! i ordered it, waiting for it to come in. Looking forward to reading it.

[@spudsbuchlaw]

Wait, have I seen you before? I think it was on Critical Role C3 E5?

[@TheEctomancer]

When are you going to review 3rd ed?

[@jamesvwest2511]

Hope I'm not repeating other comments, but the idea of bidding for stats comes straight out of Amber Diceless RPG. I have never tried it. Sounds fun. Also, great review of White Hack! This game encourages and demands creativity and investment. Definitely not a game I'd pick for a beer-and-pretzels dungeon crawl, but more of a long form campaign RPG. Very cool.

[@QuestingBeast]

Thanks James!

[@daniellugo6461]

What would be a good Beer-and-Pretzels Dungeon Crawler?

[@Pokarface7]

@@daniellugo6461 Probably Questing Beasts own game: Maze Rats since players could read the rules while drinking beer and eating pretzels without having to focus too much. The black hack and Troika! Have few stats for their monsters (so players can focus on beer instead of stats), and have few but interesting rules. Of course, if you're drinking beer and eating pretzels with friends, it might be better to play PBTA games/narrative games since you know your friends better than other strangers, and narrative games are easier with people you know already: Dungeon Worlds, Ironsworn, Masks a New Generation, Risus, Freeform Universal,

[@RedDiceDiaries]

I've not played Whitehack yet (although I've tried BlackHack), this is a good comprehensive review, I'll probably be looking to pick a copy of this up :)

[@Prismatic_Truth]

Great, clear review. I like a lot about the WH. My only reservation is that I really dislike roll-under systems; they feel so counterintuitive to most people, who have learned since childhood that rolling high is good. It gets very deflating when people keep getting excited that they rolled high, only to remember a split second later that it's actually bad.😄

[@e21f1f2]

have you read barbarians of lemuria? Its not OSR, but you might like it.

[@QuestingBeast]

E21 F1F No but I want to. From what I understand it's pretty OSRish.

[@seraaron]

I'm getting a couple of Amber (the diceless RPG) vibes from this, but overall it seems very unique and interesting!

[@thingsnearandfar7123]

Interesting... I was just thinking that Black Hack sounded awful to my mind, but this sounds excellent... Thanks again

[@findmestudios]

Could one use the White Hack as a generic system like Cypher or GURPs?

[@sandman6088]

Most definitely

[@paulll47]

The 3rd edition is out, are you going to review it?

[@chazblank2717]

Is the benefit of the auction system that you can have more than two people on an opposing roll? Or is it mostly an opportunity for narration and shenanigans? 😛

[@F2t0ny]

My favorite idea is the ghost form!

[@AleZayas]

Great review!

[@virolo1960]

I think armor should be used to reduce damage received, except on critical hits when it goes straight through. Armor should not be used to reduce the chance of hitting. That should be done with dexterity and defense. Bulky armor should make getting hit easier, not harder, but in many cases would totally absorb the damage.

[@franciscoalejandro7567]

Armor doesn't limit movement nearly as much as people think, and when most of your body is covered in metal, it's harder for an attack to actually hit flesh. Think less of it hitting and more as it not going through.

[@davelanciani-dimaensionx]

I'm completely lost on how the attack roll works. How do you calculate the target roll? What do you have to roll above?

[@davelanciani-dimaensionx]

Just found the answer at dieheart.net: "The attack roll is slightly different from what you would expect. The reason is that the basic "roll high under" mechanic applies. Every character has an Attack Value (AV, which centers around 10 for starter characters) instead of a basic attack bonus or to-hit bonus. Armor Class is ascending but different from other D&D games. An unarmored person has an AC value of 0, Chain Mail is 4 and the best armor (Full Plate) is 6. To attack, you need to roll higher than the opponent's AC but lower or equal than your AV. Remember, that Strong characters get bonuses on AV if they have a high Strength score."

[@zachbondurant7203]

Dot grid is best paper

[@fredulusinc]

Maybe you can help me with this - this is my first OSR game and something is confusing me. On the AC conversion chart on page 17, what is the difference between Descending AC I and II? Were they used in different editions of D&D? Is it just an alternate way to convert? Perhaps this is explained in the text and I missed it somewhere - I've mostly been skimming the PDF while I wait for my hard copy to get here.

[@QuestingBeast]

Yeah, different editions use different versions of descending AC.

[@grazillx964]

Descending AC I and II are used when converting older D&D and AD&D armor classes to Whitehack stats. In a D&D source book or module, you might see a monster listed as AC -2, so this would translate to AC 11 in Whitehack.

[@linkow]

I'd buy this book just for the diagrammation.

[@federicoriva3592]

Inspiring

[@GrinningAries]

This might be perfect for a pirate-themed campaign I had in mind. I wanted magic be kind of rare and hard to define in the setting (and there to also be other, more common non-magic answers to a caster role, from a crunch perspective), but still use a D&D/OSR-style ruleset. This seems perfect.

[@aurvay]

Honestly, this sounds like Numenera meets HarnMaster under the guise of D&D.

[@SirMillz]

Great review, sounds different. Probably not my cup of tea though.

[@GenuineMattyC]

Why is it called White Hack?

[@maxrobe]

White refers to the orignal 1974 "White Box" D&D Booklets. Hack as in a clever or elegant solution.

[@Curratum]

Now if only the book did not look like it was laid out using a typewriter...

[@PeterKoperdan]

It's actually very nice and clean layout. What did you expect?

[@ryandavis4936]

the one thing keeping me from buying it

[@gowankommando]

That's what drew it to me. It reminds me of my old science textbooks. Nice and clean. I don't mind if my RPG books aren't picture books.

[@shaner90]

Third edition was released earlier this year and the layout was something addressed. Much easier to read more imo.