Who are Lucifer and Satan: SMT Lore

[@Tony4You]

Join the discord: discord.gg/KfEKUZDnpn Leave any thoughts or video suggestions here!

[@Elite_Teach]

You should do a vid on some Norse Gods like Odin

[@dorjedriftwood2731]

The hold of lies is psychologically demonstratable, identity and idea are strongly interlinked lies in and of themselves are capable of blinding anyone if you lend them faith. Faith and belief are degrees of self commitment and the cost of disbelief is a loss of the commitment or investment of self, ie existential pain or loss of self, ie the pain of fear of death. People fear death and so they will grip any belief that they are sufficiently invested in regardless of truth and they will willfully destroy the truth for fear of being destroyed by the loss of self. Not sure if you follow as I am dissatisfied with my explanation but my point is the text describing satans influence is describing the effect of pride of knowing better, when people believe they alone understand the truth it lifts people into a state of seeming transcendence where they are immune to their own faults and so feel divine. You can observe this in people when they believe they know something others don’t, they will act as if they are special, if they are wrong they will fight you in some way if you point out their mistakes. This is essentially the greatest and last temptation of man as much of the pleasure religious and virtuous people feel is a sense of exaltation of being privy to something transcendent which they are but when they ignore the fact that they are fallible regardless of their station they become attached more to the feeling of exaltation and less to faith and the virtue of humble. Therefore they allow the very medicine which has exalted them to become a poison of downfall through being attatched to the effect of the light of truth rather than the ultimate goal of supreme servitude to virtue and truth in God. Again this is not solely a religious notion anytime you feel self satisfaction at understanding something others don’t you can witness the effect of this pride on your character, you can see how it makes you more difficult to communicate with and how it makes you callous and dissimissive of other points of view. The lie is that you can understand anything at all that is divine or “truth” in its entirety (in a way accounting for all the arguments and data points) from a single limited human perspective. The notion or moral being that people will only ever have a single limited point of view and cannot firmly settle on any set of ideas without ignoring some datapoints that are apparently contradictions. It doesn’t matter if the omission of facts or datapoints is willful ignorance or oversight the minute you believe you are capable of understanding something in full, you will feel a sense of pride and accomplishment in understanding that notion and that will then create a point of weakness where you will create a conflict in service to an idea regardless if you are right or wrong because it is a point of pleasure to know what you know. Your investment in your identity as someone who knows will cause You as a being to feel threatened. Our sense of personal investment of self service extends to any idea that bolsters our sense of being special. It doesn’t matter if that sense of being special is in suffering or bliss humans value a personal identity as if it where themselves and will attack others in apparent defense of self when in fact they are just defending an idea. We guard our ideas when they make us feel unique in our understanding regardless of if they are actually true or not or how true they are. We guard them as if they were our bodies or souls when they are just words. This is pride, the ability to mistakenly invest our sense of truth and justice in our intellect or egotistical sense of personal identity. Human beings fail to recognize self satisfaction as the inswell of pride and so we accumulate ideas as a sort of social buoyant. This is actually one reason why calling people stupid is a useful way of dismissing people as you can feel superior to others merely through a sense of understanding more regardless of what that person has over you. They can be more beautiful, stronger, wealthier and more popular etc etc. and yet still we can dismiss them simply for not comprehending ideas. That is how powerful lies or misunderstandings are we can derrive a sense of righteousness simply by feeling we know more. This is the obstacle to service of God as service to religious notions can swiftly turn to service in self without our recognition as the blessings of God and the swelling of pride in our chest both feel similar. Except on who is humble before Gods greatness, ie one who understands his knowledge of truth can never reach the ultimate summation of knowledge will inherently know they are wrong because they cannot possibly understand the whole, they are always limited in comprehension and so guard themselves from downfall by being open to other perspectives ie by not investigating themselves in their intelligence and so keeping open to being wrong. Being open to being wrong eliminates the pain of loss that occurs when we believe ourselves to be right and our confronted with some truth we overlooked, a humble person is curious to understand what they have missed a prideful person will create conflict and worse to guard their position of superior knowledge. The tale of Lucifer regardless of its religious context is also an allegory for how the most righteous are also the most vulnerable to the temptation of pride because that self satisfaction of knowing and the satisfaction of knowing God are very close in feeling when they are initially felt, it isn’t til pride has a hold on us that we start to feel the corruption that comes from fighting for ideas as if they were the ultimate truth and synonyms for who and what we are. All ideas are the original source of conflict in any war and it is our servitude to our sense of preservation of the good that makes us feel righteous when we fight for ideas. Yet fighting for ideas will increasingly result in every ill and heap shame upon us and others in the end and fighting for morality and virtue will never cause us to form regret nor heap shame on those that know us. Only by observing our initial self satisfaction or by being mindful of our defensiveness when we are confr😢with differing points of view can we guard ourselves from turning the medicine of truth into the poison of guarding lies. Atleast that is until your religious sense can come to a point where conflict is seen as an evil outright and then you will understand creating pain in others regardless of how right you are is still wrong. Then that extra buffer against pride is also present as you can also be mindful of a third step of entering into conflict and let the pride go a little later in the causal chain. In any case the notion is that any truth can be a source of arrogance and that arrogance leads you astray, to covet your own notion of what is true is to make any idea no matter how truthful into a lie. This is why people despise Christianity as many Christians see it as their religious duty to act in anger when they see lies but if that anger causes harm you will end up seen as the villain and you will pervert your sense of living in truth into a blank check to heap scorn upon others, and so in guarding your sense of morality you have chucked Christs and all visions of divinity on earth which always involve grace love and forgiveness as a living example out the window in exchange for feeling a sense of servitude to the truth. In point of fact you have actually created yourself as a servant of God as an idol. You see your service to some scripture as the ultimate truth instead of remaining in contact with grace. I would submit it is in almost every single circumstance impossible to do harm and remain in grace love and forgiveness yet people will mistakenly profess godliness while openly persecute people for disagreement. When it is that faithful persons job to lead the mistaken to truth as Christ did instead people cast others out as devils not for evil but for the false sin of not knowing, instead of winning people with love they scorn people for not being in the know, instead of educating people via example they attack others as their example while shouting scripture at them. This is the pride of service to ideas in the absence of godliness. It can happen to any religious person regardless of their sainthood right until the end, that is why pride is the ultimate sin because it perverts the very mechanisms that guard you from evil as a vehicle to mandate any evil. That is why it is the final and ultimate obstacle to salvation because it can turn anyone who knows the truth to mandate their own downfall by being attached to their intellectual understanding rather than the incomprehensible actual truth which is an ever present light of limitless knowledge. Rather than idea which is merely a small ray spark or piece of that greater light that cannot ever be possessed it can only be lived in via surrender to it. When people dwell in that light they feel they are lifted up, that can go to their head and they begun to identify with their station rather than their function in servitude and down they go. Any idea when we are attached to it can be falsely perceived as sacred or so close to us that we feel threaten ourselves when the notion is under threat our our sense of defending ourselves is lent to defending a notion and that notion being ephemeral can seem transcendent right unto the moment we snap out of our defensive rage and realize the harm we have done in service of nothing but a notion. A notion being no thing at all.

[@Dahaka-rd6tw]

Can you do video on Digital DFevil Saga's enemy atma avatars?

[@raymondwright7692]

Satan is referred to as Lucifer because he's a shining one. Jesus is also called shining one. It's a title.

[@happymate8943]

@@raymondwright7692 The name "Lucifer" is a insult towards a Babylonian king and not a angel.

[@jasonblundelldobebussing]

Biblical Scholars when they play SMT: ah yes, my years weren't spent for nothing 😎

[@renren47618]

Smt fans when they happen to go to church be like: Is this a motherfucking SMT reference?!

[@jasonblundelldobebussing]

@@renren47618, SMT fans during the Intercession: ayo, _YHVH,_ can I get a law ending?

[@ltb1345]

@@jasonblundelldobebussing We do need a Law or Chaos ending to happen IRL at this point, TBH.

[@jasonblundelldobebussing]

@@ltb1345, facts

[@krimsonkatt]

@@ltb1345 Ether Law+ or Chaos+ from SJR is good for me. Law+ creates world peace and Chaos+ revolutionizes technology and culture, turns me into a cute fairy girl, and I get all my monster girl waifus made real. Either way it's a win/win.

[@eyalamit5120]

After playing more SMT games specifically apocalypse and Q1, I actually recognize the tracks you are using.

[@LimitBreakr424]

Every time I hear Apocalypse world map theme I get excite

[@westonmeyer3110]

He is also using a track from Devil Survivor 2.

[@baronkarza2939]

Reminds me of how in Ghosts in goblins The devil (Aka astaroth), satan and lucifer, are all different entities But there is also a demon who looks almost exactly like Astaroth called nebiroth, who completely unrelated to Astaroth To add to the confusion, Nebiroth is sometimes called Cerberus who also another boss in the series who is completely unrelated to nebiroth

[@wordofmouth7679]

I’m no expert, but it’s also worth looking in the Hebrew at mentions of the word, “Satan”, where they have the modifying “ha-“ in front of it. It’s more like “The adversary”, or “the one who opposes”. It’s like a direct object modifier, adding some weight to the one being mentioned. Also, there are a lot of Rabbinic teachings that suggest that Job was one of the earliest books of the Hebrew Bible that was committed to writing and many hold that the book is more literary and demonstrative than literal. Loved your research and your presentation and really like your channel. Keep it up!

[@orboakin8074]

Friend, these videos are amazing! Never played the SMT games before but i am really interested in them now. Plus, as a Catholic, it's so fun and refreshing to see someone with an in-depth knowledge of Christianity and the lore and mystical and historical aspects of it and showcasing it to others. Subbed🤩👍

[@BobExcalibur]

I saw the serpentine aspects of the Satan design to be a representation of That Which Opposed mankind first: the snake in the Garden of Eden.

[@metaphobic]

I mean I've always "understood" that the two were different entities, but it is nice to actually understand them properly.

[@strangejono1245]

In Ezekial 28:14, Lucifer is referred to as a cherub, not a seraph. Also, seraphim is plural.

[@theman929]

Yo, I wanted to mention that though you bring up a lot of good points there are some things that your missing especially relating to the power of God when compared to lucifer

[@mavrospanayiotis]

It's funny how Jesus point to himself as Lucifer: "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." -Revelation 22:16 And is tempted by Satan: 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve!

[@AzureLuciferZero]

I always thought Lucifer had 12 wings.

[@yosoyhombre1679]

@4:20 are you Job because you are a virtuous man? Or are you a virtuous man because you are Job? 😅

[@rickygarcia4246]

How powerful is the spear of destiny in persona 2? And could it make god endlessly bleed like how his son did?

[@sebasjm5501]

Por favor, sube el volumen de tu vos aunque sea en el editor

[@ASnazzyNinja]

Will you do a video that covers Ayin? Or is that not a true part of religion?

[@Virgilijus87]

I think you made an error in explaining Lucifer in the book of Isaiah. The context of that section is that God is dictating what should be said to the King of Babylon. Isaiah 14:3-4 (NJKV): 'It shall come to pass in the day the Lord gives you rest from your sorrow, and from your fear and the hard bondage in which you were made to serve, that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:...' The quote about Lucifer comes within this message to the King of Babylon. God is using a metaphor, describing the King of Babylon as a star on the horizon (the day/morning star, which is later translated as Lucifer) which was cast out of the sky because it wished to be a star higher in the sky, where only God is. There is no demon or fallen angel there when the passage is read in context.

[@johnhareiel5118]

Satan, Lucifer, plus The Beast are all one in the same. As punishment of trying to be God, God split Satans personality into 3, tormenting Satan. This makes Satan tremble

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

"God" also has 3 personalities, it seems.

[@diemartist]

I was expecting this to have actual religious connotations. Sure, it describes who Lucifer is, but it barely touches on who Satan is, why he serves Yahweh (is that correct?) or where he comes from. Want to elaborate?

[@bacontheclown2502]

Satan, also known as the Devil, and sometimes also called Lucifer. They are not different, they are the same.🤦‍♂️

[@freakyzed8467]

It's so funny to watch people get bent out of shape by Bronze Age mythology. Do you also argue about Thor and Odin?

[@bacontheclown2502]

@@freakyzed8467huh?

[@dc8914]

This video is another prime example of many videos on these topics...some truth, mixed with some possible lies or deception(possibly inadvertent), mixed with some omissions...it contains things to be learned, much food for thought in the process of revisiting things we were programmed with, in order to reevaluate and possibly come to different conclusions...however, even if there is quality content to be taken from any presentation, you would be careful to blindly hang on to all content presented, even when it's coming from people you enjoy, admire, or trust overall...question and test everything in as many ways as possible with multiple sources and approaches before coming to any definitive conclusion, ultimately sifting it all through through the scriptures...there are many presenters of information I believe are trying to do good work and help people, yet still have been found to be wrong or flawed on different topics...there are certain things that are clear and obvious that can be presented as indisputable fact...but many things videos like these present as fact, often can be questioned when put under greater scrutiny, especially if certain passages are omitted that may cast some doubt on certain conclusions

[@hominhmai5325]

Ok skizo

[@zombieslaya3456]

As someone who knew they were different but never knew what made them different or how they were associated with each other, this was nice to know.

[@Tony4You]

Always happy when my videos are helpful

[@Bajannubian095]

Before satan fall his name was Lucifer

[@happymate8943]

Somthing to note is that the name "Lucifer " was more of insult towards to Babylonian king and not a angel falling.

[@comar619]

Wrong. Lucifer means "morning star" or "light Bringer". Your definition is the scientific name for the planet Venus rising.@oTomahuK8945

[@ghosteyes2708]

@@Bajannubian095 No. Lucifer is a greco-roman god. Not a fallen angel. Think about it, all angels have hebrew names but for some reason Satan had a latin name?

[@dreddick1235]

“Lucifer is described to have been the most beautiful creature on earth” SMTIV Lucifer:

[@Tony4You]

Yep, one of the main reasons I don't like SMTIV's depictions very much lol

[@gabrielhughes8221]

Not on earth

[@dantemustdie00]

@@Tony4You Yeah that version can burn out of my memory for all I care

[@nr2676]

Alien Lucifer (SMT IV) and Metatron Lucifer (SMT V)

[@fojisan2398]

Alien man

[@simeonwashington9995]

I love the wordplay of Satan being an adversary or obstacle in the way. He often does this in the name of YHVH a lot in the games. And I also like how Michael is the ultimate counter to Lucifer with his name meaning "who is like God/El?". Really enjoyed this video!

[@lenleon3699]

I mean, when you read the actual passages in the Bible there never has been a single one that equates Satan, Lucifer and the Devil as one being. It was more modern religious dogma who often conflated them all into one being.

[@jonnylawless6797]

Ha-satan literally meant "the accuser"

[@PLATINUM_Rook]

In SMT 1 Michael is the one of the final bosses on Neutral and the final boss on Chaos representing the Law alignment. Him being the one who fought Lucifer, I just realized it makes sense for Michael to be the Law faction's champion in a game series where Lucifer leads the forces of Chaos.

[@gabrielmatthews9494]

Michael is God, in the form of an angel. He and Lucifer were covering cherub. Ezekiel 28:12-17. Michael is the only angel that is worshipped. Joshua 5:13-15, Exodus 3:1-5, Daniel 10:13, 21, Daniel 12:1, Revelation 12:7-9

[@GhostzinZ]

​@@gabrielmatthews9494 bullshit

[@tibersulla2305]

Learning that "Satan" basically means "opposition", and that it is also a tittle bestowed on many in favour or "opposition" to God instead of a single entity, made things so much clear... Fells like cracking a code. Amazing video, always look forward to these illuminating works blessed sir.

[@Tony4You]

Thanks so much. The one thing I learned while making these videos is that there is always something more to learn

[@ellytorty]

The word name Satan was never mentioned untill jesus story time and the satan word is english they did not speak english at that time

[@Beastlango]

It can also be translated to be accuser, which was part of the Israelites judicial system. Almost like a prosecutor, this would imply that he tells all of our sins to the father to try and damn us along side him. It’s another interesting angle to it

[@mosampson8862]

Learning that Satan means "adversary" IS like cracking the code! Lucifer is not our adversary!

[@shef8764]

​@@mosampson8862yes he is

[@Kiri68419]

So TLDR Lucifer is a Satan but not every Satan is lucifer

[@Tony4You]

More or less

[@captainoofmerica2478]

Got to love the classic “Every poltergeist is a ghost but not every ghost is a poltergeist”- Spider-man

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

@@Tony4You TROLLSTIN13 doesn't have the brain capacity to understand that, though.

[@TheSwordsman100]

Its funny, by denying Lucifer's version in SMT the title of Satan and instead making said title a completely different character based on all holders of said title, from a certain point of view Atlus is giving the Devil one of the best disses in all of fiction, that he will never be God's ultimate adversary. Directly denying his pride.

[@grambortino]

Why would Lucifer want to be called Satan? It's not as if he's being denied anything. You act as if it's "his" title that he's supposed to own alone instead of a word meaning opposer. You can't have such a poor grasp on what the video was about, can you? And it's not Atlus dissing anything, it's just Kaneko giving his interpretation of these various biblical entities. Not conflicting at all

[@TheSwordsman100]

@@grambortino Thats rich coming from someone who obviously has a poor grasp in understanding my comment. Something 20 other people was able to do.

[@garvielloken8494]

It is also should be understood that Lucifer in New Testament is called as Satan in a way of a title or nickname with meaning like the enemy (of God), while original Satan from Old Testament has it as his name and has no meaning against God, vice versa he is adversary for sinful humans

[@cck4863]

I read a version of the Old Testament, Satan is a job title for lord of Hell, Lucifer is the head Angel that was appointed to the post Satan by God. There was no enemy of God.

[@Fallen-gryphon]

@@cck4863no how do you explain his battle with Michael

[@cck4863]

@@Fallen-gryphon Michael is Lucifer's ONLY competitor for soul. Both of them have this "pride" sin for being the GOD's BEST Employee Forever. Of course they don't like each other

[@Fallen-gryphon]

@@cck4863 yea you haven’t read the Bible Michael being like God is a testament to him being sinless he’s Gods greatest warrior when Lucifer tries to trick him into combat over the body of Moses he says the Lord rebuke you what you are saying is blasphemy

[@cck4863]

@@Fallen-gryphon Bible is NEW Testament, and have been re-written like how many times already? Like many have said, there are versionS.

[@robdotgif]

I feel like it should be mentioned that "Lucifer" as the current popular understanging of a texual character, is a modern-ish thing and a product of the popular thought of later century scholars and the reimaginations and remixes of poets. If you continue reading Isaiah 14 past paragraph 15 where people usually stop, its clear that it is speaking to a human, likely the ruler of Babylon at the time, it including references to conquest of other nations and their kings and prisoners of war, and quotes like "Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?". And right after in 14: 22-23 YHWH declares that he will destroy Babylon. But homeboy got baller horns and wings so I'll let it slide cuz he's cool (edit: i forgot to say that i enjoyed the video as always you make awesome stuff)

[@mkv2718]

bible verses: everyone’s favorite thing to take out of context 😉

[@ktk44man]

Exactly. In that passage mentioned in the video we can even see that Lucifer precedes the phrase "son of the morning". In case people don't know, the Morningstar is Venus, which Romans at the time of the Bible was being written called Lucifer. It seems to me that later Christians misinterpreted this phrase and did not realize that the planet they called venus was Lucifer, and invented a new character based off of this misunderstanding.

[@captainoofmerica2478]

Can you imagine your legacy thousands of years after your death is people thinking that you are “Literally satan” 😂

[@macicoinc9363]

Except the bible states multiple times that Satan will be the king of Babylon, where Babylon is not the city Babylon that God destroyed, but the kingdom of wickedness setup before the end of days and the abomination of desolation. The king of Babylon was not the ruler of Babylon, as Satan ruled over him.

[@robdotgif]

@@macicoinc9363 please cite the passages you are referring to. To me it sounds like you're pulling from revelations. Which isn't sound to do when analyzing the text as that was written around 800 years after Isaiah. You can not inscribe authorial intent retroactively. Even still i don't see how your point contradicts the fact that "Lucifer" or "Helel" was a title applied to king Nebuchadnezzar, comparing his glory to that of Venus

[@Illstatefishing]

Can't get enough of SMT lore!!

[@Tony4You]

Thank you legend

[@Refri_Geranti]

i remember you from the anarcocabritinho discord server lol

[@PhilR870]

What is SMT?

[@SyrupDoesAlot]

​@@PhilR870shin megami tensei

[@Luciodioc6000]

​@@PhilR870 I don't mean to offend but...are you really asking that on an Smt video?

[@LordDio]

Satan is undoubtedly a biblical character, but Lucifer's existence is more heavily debated due to translation errors, the time gap between old and new testament, and the canonicity of texts such as the gospels. Our understanding of him is still relatively modern, as he became much more popular after John Milton published Paradise Lost (this is where the idea of Lucifer and Satan being the same character at different times is established, as well as the basis for him as the serpent who tempted Eve)

[@ellytorty]

And that lucifer satan story has a flaw we will still find if we live to the times given by daniel and moses

[@chozolady]

lucifer is a greco roman pagan god

[@BhaalSakh]

Lucifer is a Greco-Roman God that also appears in other pagan religions as the morning star. He is not a biblical entity at all, and most certainly not evil. Quite the opposite.

[@SeruraRenge11]

Paradise Lost is just fanfiction where Lucifer gets butthurt, loses the war, then says to God "1v1 me bitch", and backs down when God is willing to go another round.

[@macicoinc9363]

@@ellytorty I understand the times you are referencing, but do not understand the flaw. Please explain

[@GaeaRage0798]

Lucifer is pretty what would have happened if Zeus failed to defeat Cronus.

[@AllGloryandHonor]

Greeks derive their mythology from the Bible

[@songshield_2047]

@@AllGloryandHonor it's the exact opposite. Christian religion was born from a mixture of Zoroastrianism, Greek and Latin Mythology and a little bit of reinvention

[@Anti-Alphabet_Mafia]

Greeks didn't derive their mythology from the bible. Greek mythology existed way before christianity. But if you want to say that the greeks grabbed a lot from the abrahamic religion, then sure. Hercules is basically a Samson ripoff. Samson killed a lion in a second, Hercules killed the nemian lion, etc.

[@diegomayz8503]

@@Anti-Alphabet_Mafia Samson came before Hercules?

[@silversobe]

I always thought Satan as the form of Lucifer furthest from God, completely corrupted and losing all his Angelic features.

[@Asteraleyes]

Not only this taught me religious about the two, it also explained their differences in the games. Great video, thanks for explaining. 🙏

[@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw]

amazing vid tony, i prefer these history videos to anything else.

[@Tony4You]

Means a lot, appreciate all the support

[@theingeniousone5141]

Thank you for making this Now I don't have to repeat my same argument over and over Very based Very redpilled

[@happymate8943]

You realize based is slang for someone on crack or acting weird. Also it's not really "redpilled" when it's somewhat common knowledge

[@theingeniousone5141]

@@happymate8943 where is it "common knowledge" that Satan and lucifer are different entities?

[@happymate8943]

@@theingeniousone5141 In the bible "Lucifer" is a insult used towards a Babylonian king and not a angel. The term "satan" has been used on people and later on angels.

[@theingeniousone5141]

@@happymate8943 your knowledge doesn't reflect common knowledge dude

[@happymate8943]

@@theingeniousone5141 That's because you guys would rather cherry pick quotes and verses than actually learn about the bible or the history of this religion. Lol

[@TehLightraven]

a lot of mfs in this comment section don't get that this video is about a game.

[@DrownedInDysphoria]

It would appear that way. Really entertaining to watch

[@freakyzed8467]

That anyone would get bent out of shape about Bronze Age myths is a sure sign we have a LONG way to go as a species.

[@TROLLSTIN13]

😂 I hope so. I was about to say this man is spreading misinformation about the devil. As long as he talking about a game, I won’t have to whip out the bible scriptures on him.

[@28_futaba]

​@@TROLLSTIN13what misinformation is he spreading, I'm curious

[@TROLLSTIN13]

@@28_futaba The guy is talking about a video game, which is all fictional. In the actual Bible, there’s only one devil. I put nonfiction by mistake.

[@Reno_user]

I like how every culture has a morning star like Esphorus the Greek version and I think I heard that the Hebrew Bible said that Satan is the angel which reminded God of his creations and not the Devil.

[@simeonwashington9995]

Cultures must take note of how Venus (the morning star) rises and sets at the horizon and that influences the depictions of Eosphorus/Hesperus and Lucifer.

[@Reno_user]

@@simeonwashington9995 You see I'm Greek I yesterday found out that we had a Lucifer

[@simeonwashington9995]

@@Reno_user that's pretty cool honestly!

[@Reno_user]

@@simeonwashington9995 Yeah! and all the Luis Cypher(Lucifer) versions are cool to like the Aztec one.

[@starmaker75]

When I first play persona 3 and 4 I just assumed that Satanc, Lucifer, and hele were just different forms of the devil. Hele is the devil angle before he fall and his disguise to trick people. Lucifer is his devil form and ruler of sin form, and Satan is his beast/monster form

[@herobrinesblog]

Some theological debate: The passage in apocalypse that mentions Lucifer bringing down a third of the stars (angels) doesn't mention they were on his side, in fact, Lucifer tramples these stars. So, where do we stand? Was it one third rebelled or one third was trampled?

[@3kojimbles895]

bringing down could mean bringing those who rebelled with him to hell or earth, after being trampled by the forces of micheal and the other of God's loyal angels

[@justjoking5841]

Trampling someone's country could also be metaphor for being flattened by an attacking force. As if an assault were a one sided struggle for a time before the counter attacks actually began. 🤔 1/3 of heaven fell or was trampled (the place). 1/3 of the Angels (as in heaven's population) also fell resultant of Helel's lies and deceptions through various means. Thus it is an anagogical means of describing the ferocity of the war in heaven plus exaggerations.

[@lhfirex]

Another great video full of SMT lore! These two demons are always interesting to see when they show up in the games.

[@Tony4You]

This video was a long time coming to be honest

[@Elite_Teach]

Man you made a lot of things clearer for me Love this channel! Keep up the great work!!

[@Tony4You]

Always love getting comments like this, thanks for watching!

[@chrisk3824]

Another great video. Really enjoy all the tales of religious figures. I didn't expect myself to one day hear book of Job and be like, "yeah, I know this one but I'll gladly listen again"

[@Tony4You]

Always happy when I get people interested in theology. Thanks so much for watching

[@miketacos9034]

Can’t believe they created entire civilizations just to market SMT! Wild!

[@poetscotty]

I always thought Lucifer when he fell his name changed. Was Lucifer the leader of the seraphim before Megatron?

[@liamkqn]

I know you're talking about Metatron, but I find it funny to imagine a Transformer leading the seraphim lmao

[@ltb1345]

@@liamkqn Lol, I pictured Megatron when I read that as well.

[@TheSwordsman100]

Kinda Lucifer for certain is the highest ranked angel, though Metatron doesn't actually exist and is only found in non canon texts (as in biblical canon not continuity) and Enoch (Metatron's original and human name) is instead implied to be one of the two witnesses in Revelations.

[@enoyna1001]

​@@TheSwordsman100>>doesn't actually exist Ok

[@TheSwordsman100]

@@enoyna1001 Take your fedora elsewhere, not only will it find no purchase, no one appreciates your derailing antics.

[@cerealboxkiller420]

dude, i would love a manga adaptation of the bible. like a kool one with lots of action.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

Superbook?

[@Hyakkishin]

I literally had this question haunting me for the past couple of weeks. And here comes Tony out of nowhere to save the day!

[@geraldthegoose1685]

Thanks to SMT5 every time I think of Lucifer I think "Gundam devil". Also is SMT5 Lucifer the strongest in the entire megami tensei series due to him consuming YHWH knowledge

[@vanir762]

the funniest thing is that there are versions in the book of apocalypse where it says that lucifer is the beast of the sea. while Satan is the red dragon. which is funny because there is an art and a passage where the beast (Lucifer) interacts with the dragon (Satan), kind of contradicting the idea of ​​them being the same creature....

[@muadibadder3345]

all I know is satan is always a level/levels below lucifer, lucifer is always lvl 99, while satan could be 98 or in da high 90s, dats it 🤷‍♂️ Seems a staple in smt and persona games

[@obamaorb7426]

Ah yes, Beelzebub, Satan, Helel, Lucifer and Satanael

[@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas]

So I understand Lucifer well enough, but now I'm just confused about Satan

[@TheSwordsman100]

Basically for real life there is no being directly named Satan, Satan is a title meaning adversary. Which is why Lucifer is commonly called and believed to be Satan. (which is correct as he does count as a adversary but not in the way most people think) In SMT though Satatn is a unique character loosely based on all the holders of the title, with a focus on testing man and judging sin.

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

From your handle name, I assume here you are a muslim (I apologize if otherwise). Based on the Abrahamic religions and lore, Satan is simply a representation or the manifestation of evil in human and djinns in the form of deeds. It also refers to evil djinns/spirits and lesser demons whose roles are to led believers astray from God. Lucifer on the other hand, while shares the same lore with Azazel in regards of fallen angel, is actually a byproduct of mistranslations of the bibles. For the context of this video, I think you should stick to Tony's explanation and your previous knowledge about him to avoid more confusion. SMT took Lucifer's lore mostly from Sumerian and Canaanite's folklore, Helel being a Babylonian king who refers himself as a god (similar to those Egyptian pharoahs, Babylonian kings considered themselves as gods too). Lucifer simply means "Morning Star", which is the planet Venus.

[@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas]

@@shinyanakagawa8241 feels odd, especially considering how faithful I actually am, but yeah you're right about me being Muslim, lol hm, that's a fair explanation, thanks

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

@@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas I just read stuff a lot, I guess. From there you'd know there are lots of inconsistencies and similarities on these folklores, myths and legends, and whether or not they are aligned with the religion inscriptions.

[@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas]

@@shinyanakagawa8241 that's just the way of life and Megami Tensei

[@runman624]

I thought lucifer's form was demonic while the one you showed was from a character called helei

[@dantemustdie00]

Same demon, Persona games for whatever reason tried to give them different names, but both are Lucifer. The Angel form is just more of a disguise, while his demonic form is his true power

[@scottdreemurrthegodofcreation]

Mother of god finally another person who understands this

[@thetruth86n]

Just want to say keep it up. I think you are doing great work. Hope this channel blows up

[@Tony4You]

Much appreciated! I hope so too, but most of all I'm glad people enjoy them

[@harrisonwhaley7872]

Another wonderful episode Tony!

[@diegomireles]

Lucifer: Morning Star Satan: Adversary Not the same entity even in religion.

[@davidmalik3344]

That is a really nice video but I would have a couple of remarks to make as both an SMT fan and a person who has read the Bible a considerable amount, in my opinion, both Lucifer and Satan are Titles, in Jewish religions names are given as a Title, Like Alexander the Great, he was not born great, he achieved it on his own. Now Lucifer was the brightest of all angels, but when he revolted against God his name was changed from Lucifer "Bringer of Light / Morningstar" To Satan "Resistance, Counter Force, Opposition" Because he was no longer worthy of the name bringer of light, his role has changed, and the Title of Lucifer was taken by Jesus Christ because in Revelations 22:16 it states: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star", now in King James it only says Morning Star but in other translations like the most popular Romanian one which I read because it is my mother tongue, it literally states "I am Lucifer, the light of the morning" Because the title had no owner it has been transferred to Jesus after he became Messiah as a reward, making him in both actions and title "A bringer of Light''. Now this is only my interpretation of the writing that might not be the case in the SMT universe but I hope I can get a response, thanks and keep up the good work.

[@SynysterProjects]

"Satan" actually isn't that important to Abrahamic religions. Or rather, if people of those religions realized that "Satan", "Lucifer" and "The Devil" probably aren't synonymous, then Satan wouldn't be that important. The name "Satan" is only mentioned two or three times throughout the Old Testament, and not once in the New Testament. However, anything that is portrayed as outright evil tends to just be interpreted as "Satan", by Christians and Catholics particularly. The serpent in Genesis, for example, is nameless, and there is zero evidence that it is anything more than a talking serpent, yet it is preached that the serpent is Satan, who is Lucifer, who is the Devil, all in the same way that the serpent is Satan. That being a strange interpretation with zero evidence.

[@WaggaDaBagga]

Nice video. The text in the Old Testament where Lucifer is mentioned is a word that the Jews in Babylon used to mock the king when he fell, in their lament. But which has nothing to do with the king, For it was not his name or title. His name was Neabaskar III. In Latin, Lucifer means Light bearer or Light bringer. (Lux=light/fer=bearer). Lucifer was actually a title for a Cherub angel much loved by God. After he refused to obey his master and creates orders to bow down to Adam. He became Satan, because of his sin was Pride. p.s. Morningstar can be referred to the planet Venus because it shines just like a star, but only much bigger.

[@semiherdogan9862]

wooow that was interesting :D so much thought put behind the designs in the game. in islam we say that god is all powerful and all things happen if only god wills it, we don't believe lucifer or satan and his army are the equal opposit of god. lucifer made it his job to lure and decieve people to do sins and take as many of the children of adam with him to the hellfire, after he went against god out of pride and arrogance (all angels and lucifer were commanded to prostate to adam) and was promised hell fire. god says in quran 16: 99-100 "he certainly has no authority over those who believe and put their trust in their lord. his authority is only over those who take him as a patron and who - under his influence- associates (others) with allah (in worship)" . there is quite the story around lucifer or iblis in arabic in islam :D would recommend if your interested. this video was very interesting. quality content :D appreciate the work you put in your videos 👍

[@josetomascamposrobledano4618]

Ok… but can we add SATANAEL to the list now?

[@marjhuncantago9476]

I been telling this about "Satan is a Title not Name" for almost 5years now.

[@1monkey1typewriter]

And this is why you shouldn’t get your theology from video games. Ask yourselves why Lucifer and Satan are said to be the same entity? Because it says so in Revelation. So if you’re looking for the link only in the Old Testament, then the link wouldn’t be apparent. While satan is a title or descriptor, THE Satan, the tempter in the garden, the tempter of Jesus, etc. is the being called Lucifer in the KJV. In short, there are numerous satans, but THE Satan is the being also called Lucifer.

[@ParadiseLordRyu]

Yeah, that’s called retconning. He went from being a tempter and servant of God while humans were around to someone who turned evil and opposed God Before humanity spread out. Inconsistent.

[@1monkey1typewriter]

@@ParadiseLordRyu Tell us you don't understand the book of Genesis without telling us you don't understand the book of Genesis.

[@movespammerguyteam7colors]

Well, Satan meaning “Adversary” or “Opposer” complicates matters. Though it does make sense why they would be relevant to each other.

[@obliviondust2719]

Lucifer, satan, helel all in the same game 😂

[@anadventfollower1181]

Satan is the father of your reality, the father of Lucifer morning star; the son (sun), the individual who brought down forbidden knowledge to 'enlighten', humanity (humans, that being everyone except caucasians because caucasians are the hybrid of humans and demons, but are the individuals bestowed with the knowledge and passed off as humans too). He who impregnated a mortal and birthed Jesus. The religions of the cross, or of any that falls under and or relates to Abraham (that includes Hinduism, in which the Brahmani's stole Aseevagam and desecrated it with their fairy tale false interprutations) in which their Lord protects them and forgives all sin done, while showering them in wealth every time blood is shed, and promoting sin and passing it off as 'human behaviour'. Good vs Evil never existed because this is all a prolonged play that has been going on for thousands of years. When you feel guilt, or the need to help another, that is the remnants left over by the creator of creators. That is something these demons use to take advantage of all of you. We are way pass over-due, and they have won long ago. When individuals come into light to speak against all that is passed as 'correct' and 'godly'; by the masses, they will accuse them as the anti-christ then after some amount of time, send 'Jesus, or the one who was sent by God', to vanquish all non-believers... And so the act continues.Welcome the end.

[@michaelfissel1357]

I only just now figured out that Tony4you's profile pic is the Japanese version of the "Overworked" card in YuGiOh.

[@Tony4You]

People just seem to be figuring that out lol. I always liked YuGiOh

[@ellytorty]

Lucifer said to have been or is son of the morning morning is light jesus is said to be bright morning start also morning also light and more similars would seem to be traits of the same only one not two as in jesus and lucifer is one same

[@LordHayabusa85]

No, you have it wrong too. Satan (short for Satanael) is the angel who stood against Yahweh after Yahweh usurped Elyon’s throne. Lucifer is not associated with christianity at all, he is in fact the Roman god of light synonymous with the Greek god Apollo. In the same way that Jupiter is synonymous with Zeus-Pater.

[@chozolady]

for a video game franchise to comprehend the difference between Lucifer and Satan is huge to me and as far as to go to acknowledge that he, Lucifer, is the Greco-Roman god of light, love, knowledge and intelligence. a Pagan god. the west has ruined his depiction in media and i’m too picky with how i want people to depict my deity. i think that Kaz not only did an amazing job at designing him but the way he talks about Lucifer is lovely to me. Lucifer isn’t evil, he isn’t trying to harm the protagonist. he works as a partner and tries to apply his teachings not only to the protagonist but to reach further to you, the player. this is definitely one of the biggest reasons why the Megten franchise means so much to me. give a weird little pagan girl a weird little JRPG and she will find something meaningful out of it. bless be lord Lucifer! ❤

[@Ale-Y]

Its funny how everyting becomes more interesthing to learn by putting a "but videogame" label next to it

[@kalebgonzales4009]

Lucifer is the cherub’s true name while satan is a title which means deceiver in God’s language. The one in wreck it Ralph said the word satan correctly in it’s old way of pronunciation, “sä-tann which is why it sounds more of a title than a name. But through time, “say- tann” is considered also acceptable in modern times.

[@nonaes]

In the SMT games there’s Lucifer his fallen demon form and there’s Helel, his beautiful angelic form

[@prsm5167]

To my knowledge, you described more of Helel's design for Lucifer (yes, I'm aware they're the same, one pre-fall, the other post-fall), although in fairness there isn't much to really say. Lucifer's design in Persona specifically is one of a stereotypical demon. The one that if someone looked at for the first time, they'd think "Yep. That's not one of the good guys." Very similar to Helel, but a solid transition from highest of high to the Prince of Hell.

[@nr2676]

There is also Majin Tensei 1 & 2 Satan design

[@kwameoliver2455]

Well technically speaking depending on what you're looking at Lucifer and Satan are different depending on the Bibles if we're talking about Hebrew text or I think what Kings James version of the Bible, Lucifer and Satan are separate in a sense, since religion is like displicted so differently throughout Bibles and just were to mouth it can be very complicated funny enough I kind of like the rendition not the true demonic force in the world is called the dragon or Dagon, it's like a red gigantic creature with a crown

[@krimsonkatt]

Someone watched too much Ben 10...

[@kwameoliver2455]

@KrimsonKatt that took so long for me to get and that was a stretch good comment though, thier is a dagon in the Bible doe, thiers yeah thiers something called the dragon or serpent n it's red

[@Beastlango]

Good job in getting this right. Most ether say they are the same or are completely different. You earned by sub

[@Tony4You]

I do everything I can to interpret scripture. I'm happy people enjoy!

[@kasumiayanami4501]

Not sure what's up with Lucifer's "Helel" design from P3 and P4 but as a guy, that has me actin' up 🥴🥵😩🙏😈❤️‍🔥

[@Tony4You]

You said what I couldn't 😳

[@bubbletea_]

Lucifer and Satan? OH SHIT, TONY 'BOUTA DROP A FUSION SPELL (Armageddon).

[@bacontheclown2502]

This video makes no sense.💀 they are the same person bruh. Lucifer just has different name bro.💀🙏 like God’s real name is Jehovah, and Jesus’s name is Yeshua. People just gave them names.💀🤦‍♂️

[@DrownedInDysphoria]

This is talking about a game series called Shin Megami Tensei (SMT), not any religious text.

[@bacontheclown2502]

@@DrownedInDysphoriak

[@28_futaba]

god's real name is yahweh

[@bacontheclown2502]

@@28_futaba k, yea Ik

[@GODGOD-bi4tk]

Is my beard getting daat... what do I do? How do I connect with Sher people? I have to take earphone too!

[@KISEwun]

It would be interesting to know your sources as the word "Lucifer" is used only one time in the bible. Isaiah is referring to the King of Babylon that he's talking about in that chapter as "Lucifer" using Venus the morning star as a metaphor.

[@Sungroove]

Hmmm, I’ll have to say you are wrong about Lucifer. Lucifer has nothing to do with angels or satan at all. In the book of Isaiah Lucifer is referring to the king of Babylon. The true names for the fallen angels are Semyaza, Azazel, Beliar, Beezelboul, Mastema…

[@_kishken_1595]

You don’t know how long I’ve been waiting for this video

[@Tony4You]

I've been meaning to make the video for a while now, thanks for watching!

[@religionoffreedom]

Great video, very informative! So it’s all in the names. The stories are designed to be considered abstractly and literally at the same time, just like Hindu “mythology”. In Christianity, the names all have deep meanings, and can tell you a lot. Everything fits when you start putting all of the religions’ stories together and finding out they are all true in ways we never imagined before.

[@johanandersson8252]

I would like to request a video about Helel.

[@Tony4You]

That demon will potentially be covered on a later video

[@augustusalexander7732]

Satan Is Samael The Fallen Seraph And Lucifer Is Helel Ben Shahar The Fallen Anointed Cherub

[@Calaverasdemon]

Sin being put next to good deed doesn't make sense.... to sin is to not do what god wants, good and bad are morals and do not mix with having to do with blindly worshipping a formless entity..🤔 And why is Lucifer a prince of lies? There are hundreds of version of Lucifer... but I don't see why questioning and seeing one equal to someone is bad... in reality the only people who do not like for people to question and ask to be blindly followed/believed, are those who want control over others and to remain in power🤔 In all denominations, they have a different version of "the bad one" giving the forbidden fruit of knowledge, forbidden fruit of knowledge of good and evil or most commonly the forbidden fruit, because saying outloud that god didn't want us to know of knowledge and good and evil kinda immediately fkcs with the "god is all loving" lie... But the question is... if god is so loving and cari g... why is knowledge bad? Why is being yourself and being happy bad? Why is one supposed to treat only those who believe in what you believe with "respect"? Because not even then do they 'love/treat thy neighbor as thyself ' whith always having to give every cent you have to church, as if you don't have a life of your own snd don't have bills to pay or save some money in case you come down with a terrible illness... Amd not to mention how much genocide the bible quotes, and un aliving, and how much sacrifice we have to give to this "all loving" god and how it encourages pedophile.. like a story in which to sisters got their biological dad drunk, had "fun" times with him, bared his child, and then god blesses these children and what the daughters did.. Or the one of the guy who said 'I will sacrifice whatever greets me when I get home' and then his daughter is the one that greets him and he sacrifices his daughter.. aka: sacrificing a virgin to him... Lucifer only gives the fruit of knowledge, invites us to question, and sees himself equal/greater than what mostly acts like an inhuman tyrant.. It makes zero sense...

[@productamadeus8745]

This was a poor explanation. The Bible is clear that there is one Prince of the Power of the Air. People just read your Bible. It’s not even hard anymore.

[@geomGalangco]

Satan means "the enemy," so anyone that in opposition to god back then in the bible, in its old roman translation, gets that title. Lucifer is a mistranslation of Venus when romans were translating the bible from greek to Roman(or was it Hebrew to Roman). You can't really get the whole picture if you just read the verse Isaiah 14:12. It talks about how far a king has fallen and how he is being compared to Venus(the planet), which is the first thing you see at night and the last at sunrise.

[@alisos360]

In Islam the word Satan or Shaytan literally means “He who strays from the path of god” and this categorization can apply to both humans and Djinn but not angels because according to Islamic belief angels have no free-will. Lucifer is known as Iblis and is a Djinn who was so virtuous that he ascended beyond the rank of the most holiest of angels. His “Sin” was that when god said that Adam was his greatest creation, Iblis scoffed and said that he was greater. An argument ensued and Iblis was kicked off of heaven, so he descended to hell and became the leader of the Shayateen who were entirely composed of Djinn as this point. Iblis made it his mission to prove to god the humans are more fallible and sinful than any of gods other creations.

[@mawiiile706]

I believe the reason Griffith has a serpent's eye is to reference Lucifer, one who had the ambition to surpass even God but was destined for hell from the start

[@tigersympathiser2265]

Satan is portrayed as he is even earlier than SMT II in Megami Tensei II and Majin Tensei, both of which mirror SMTII

[@robertjohnson-tz6mw]

Lucifer was a angel but once he went to hell he became Satan so yes they are the same person

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

Except the Satan talking to Yahweh in the Book of Job is Mastema.

[@smergthedargon8974]

I love the SMT4 depiction of Lucifer. He's so strange and distressing.

[@lucastristan3413]

Bro lucifer was his angel name but satan its his downfall name

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/np_HiYl4d8aSotk

[@thewhitewolf7241]

Sammael. Just saying. But then most people have no idea who Lilith is either (other than Niles ex wife on Fraiser).

[@NeloBladeOfRanni]

Lilith is awesome. While she may not be known by many even those who follow the abrahamic religions she's not unknown to those of us who follow the old ways.

[@CassiusZedaker-pr7kc]

Lilith is actually pretty popular these days.

[@unspeakableJoy76]

Samael is the wrath /venom of God. Lilith was the first woman created by God and later became the demon Succubus, allegedly.

[@28_futaba]

​@@unspeakableJoy76that's not true, Lilith was only ever mentioned in the passing in the kabbalah (technically "a Lilith" as it refers to multiple demons) and the idea she was the first woman is just made up, no idea where that myth even came from

[@vacaspen4787]

Fatherhood the first lie. You can be of your Pope true mediator the first patriarch and the mother Mather or you can be of the rebellious lawyer father

[@JGAD2ND]

The fallen angel and Satan is the same but the term Lucifer was not referring to Satan but the arrogant earthly King of the Babylon but one thing is for sure that in the one book and verse when Jesus saw Satan fell like a lightning and he was the serpent on the garden of eden and the Great Red Dragon with 7 Heads 10 Horns 7 Crowns who was appeared on the first war and on the final battle which was the Armaggedon