Who Can Build the Coolest Tunnel Track?

[@Novabeagle]

0:42 “hopefully we’ll gets some randoms too” *literally the best zeepkist players join the server* 😂

[@wesleykoewing8596]

The literal game dev is in there

[@tincozin8681]

For those wondering, trackmania is verified through input replication; it has deterministic physics and the game records inputs

[@Beregorn88]

Plus a lot of black magic trickery to prevent people from playing on slow mode, or use software for run optimization

[@CMWolfMagic]

TrackMania does use Replays for Validation, however for this game to be able to do the same it would need to remove the slight randomness that happens as you go

[@stonelion99]

It's made in unity, so that's not possible.

[@RU-jl4gh]

@@stonelion99 yep, the game engine just isnt deterministic. so you can't remove this randomness (except, you get the exact same environment for the validation.) so wont happen

[@THESLlCK]

I HATE the RNG in this game

[@THESLlCK]

@@RU-jl4gh not true. The dev explained that he added the RNG.

[@CMWolfMagic]

Never said if it was or not, I just loosly described what TrackMania does for its Validation system. The Dev did state in 1 video that the RNG was something he added. Now how much of it is from his doing and how much is from the Engine itself is another question.

[@erzbengelraziel5490]

trackmania has the huge advantage that the physics are deterministic, the replay file just contains all playerinputs with timestamps and replaying it means simulating it. As long as the file is legit it will always produce the same time and the only way to cheat it is by making the car drive perfectly.

[@swskitso]

I believe they have stated even if you do that the outcome will vary with every try.

[@erzbengelraziel5490]

@@swskitso yes, that's why i said that trackmania has an advantage in having deterministic physics

[@swskitso]

@@erzbengelraziel5490 i literally missed the first word of your comment. Sorry about that.

[@KergylKraft]

Video idea: 15 minute build with a track that has a big shortcut. Everyone would know everyone had a shortcut, and it would be insanity cause people would be jumping off looking for spots to cheese.

[@StorkRL]

sounds like a regular online lobby with dapper and kAN

[@KergylKraft]

Oh wait they actually did this recently. I just realized that. Anyone think this comment might have influenced that?

[@t1geres544]

@@KergylKraft Probably! that would be cool (if your comment influenced them)

[@harpra5754]

1st Place: kAN. His track was very simple in its design, but had lots of room for mastery. 2nd Place: Dapper. An interesting but simple track. With abundant use of decoration obstacles. 3rd Place. Kosmo. An seemingly simple track with a unique twist using the ramp platforms. A fun time that could turn frustrating.

[@benczech3993]

Idea for Zeepkist: best maze track in 30 minutes or so, be interesting to combine gravity racing and pathfinding

[@valithor2384]

Track mania has deterministic physics. The replays for that game are basically just the exact inputs that player did to get that run. Because you have access to the exact inputs that they used you can look at them and tell if they look like a normal person playing. They also now require all records to be done on servers, so can't fake something in single player.

[@shayes.x]

From a developer perspective, calculating an estimate of the minimum time is unfortunately not a trivial task, especially since physics are non-deterministic in this game. However, a lower boundary could be calculated quite easily, so anything below that boundary would clearly be fake. It could just be iffy to determine a fake as players approach the lower boundary, but would definitely be better than having zero second times considered valid.

[@scronchgoose7403]

If a sequel is ever made, would it have deterministic physics? I do know it is very early to ask

[@Anikin3-]

wasn't he already talking about a lower boundary

[@ValentineC137]

What Kan proposed was the straight line distance between the checkpoints at 200 speed, and since you’re never starting at 200 speed and you’re never going to go perfectly straight between all checkpoints then there is a solid safety net between legit runs and cheated times

[@Beregorn88]

Until people learn how to make a bugslide and yeet themselves at speed higher than 200

[@pcenero]

You can also do the typeracer thing and if the game suspects you have done _too_ well, it immediately gives you a new course you haven't seen before that you have to complete in a set amount of time before it accepts your record.

[@wdubduece8913]

Perfect timing, literally just on your channel to see if anything was new and boom!

[@amf2372]

I've been loving the zeepkist content it looks pretty fun

[@daanbos5918]

“Aggressively takes dump while whacking this”

[@krzycki9688]

It would be cool if Kan tweeted when he is recording so viewers can play with him and make the episode more engaging and fun

[@SaiakuNaSenshu]

I agree but I understand why he doesn't because he doesn't want his lobbies to be instantly slammed in full

[@krzycki9688]

@@SaiakuNaSenshu yeah, you're right

[@CthuluSpecialK]

OR you could join the games official discord where he does post when he is trying a new track.

[@samspence7008]

Well nothing like 390k subs trying to join a server

[@vfvv1]

They were playing yesterday just hanging out after recording, super chill when not recording and good to talk too, great guys

[@Pystro]

Validating times from replays will be harder than in trackmania, because zeepkist doesn't have "deterministic" physics. Technically it is deterministic if the frame rate is the exact same between two runs, so you could probably use that to validate times. The computer displaying the replay would just need to speed up or slow down to match the frame rate of the recording. You'd just need to save the amount of milliseconds between each frame.

[@adicsbtw]

9:48 Trackmania uses a combination system. For a long time, they only used replays in combination with moderators to verify legitimacy, but recently they added a second layer. There is a patch to the game that you are required to use to be able to submit your times in order to confirm legitimacy of runs, because some people started using tas tools, macros, and game slowdowns to cheat runs. I think that replays are a definitely a necessity for Zeepkist, but something similar to the patch for Trackmania would probably be a good idea to guarantee that runs are legitimate. Also, I think that one of the major reasons you are losing time to people like Warcans is due to jumps. In Trackmania, when you have a large jump, people will often purposefully slow down just before so that they land sooner and can accelerate to a higher speed. That higher speed then snowballs into tenths of a second or even entire seconds depending on how long the section after is. In the case of your track, it would last from the landing ramp until the 200 speed booster, but that would surely make a huge difference. Of course, this only works on some jumps, but it is a good technique to keep in mind

[@giddycadet]

on this map i think you should brake a tiny bit on the edge of the jump. Notice how when you came in low and hit the smooth landing perfectly that was when you got the fastest time.

[@TheEndOfNether]

i really love the zeepkist series. Keep it up!

[@oygemprime3864]

Trackmania does validate records with replays, but that's completely deterministic, which Zeepkist as we understand it is not.

[@domwheatley6932]

Great video kan, I would love to see more!

[@VentureCat]

Yes Trackmania does have the replay feature which recordes the exact time of all inputs, which allows it to create an exact replay of the original run. If the replay run fails or gets a different time, it is an invalid run.

[@korinogaro]

9:50 yes, but trackmania replay files are small because it has deterministic physics. This game doesn't so you would literally save video files.

[@ZanielGa_]

Hope you guys will do a race at some point where cutting is encouraged. Have like multiple different places you can cut. Some which you can only use with a ton of speed others which you can only get if you scrub all speed in the earlier section. Have some cuts that are mutually exclusive. Just to see all the chaos of people using different routes.

[@SaiakuNaSenshu]

Trackmania is method of record tracking will not work for this game because trackmania has a completely deterministic physics engine which means the replays are literally just redoing the inputs

[@soulplayrt463]

As cool as the other tracks were, I have to give it to Kan again, that reverse upsidedown spiral double back ending.. is sick

[@PasiFourmyle]

Kan... Daily videos? I believe in you man.

[@matt_ressmatt_ress7902]

I love your channel pls do more multiplayer Monday on trailmakers

[@steeljawX]

I think one of the most difficult tunnel tracks would be a speedy straight line down hill that then goes into a banked turn. By speedy, I mean full boosters all the way down. You basically are trying to not get yeeted out of the turn at the bottom and the goal is just a straight shot out of that turn. Check point at the bottom of the hill, check point at the end of the turn. No cheese, easy build, pain to complete.

[@nope.4945]

I was waiting for this episode

[@jspug3]

I just bought this game, I am coming for ALL of your records kan!

[@johanneshaukanes4531]

I didn't see the others tunell tracks. But this was a cool tunnel track.

[@no_skcaj1038]

Loving zeepkist! Try a no hands theme next

[@jordananderson2728]

The problem with no hands, which he touched on in his first video, is that the physics aren't deterministic (I think they're framerate-dependent).

[@Heyec]

Your run where you hit the ring has your time at 36.3xx right before you contact the ring. Realistically looking at around a 36.4ish, still good for second.

[@BeaDSM]

Speedrunning communities usually require runs to be recorded to claim a record

[@radialdanil7410]

I have a strategy that may be faster so you turn to always stay the lowest possible the path will be shorterand the gravity thing will make you faster (like on your 36,597s run)

[@jordananderson2728]

The dev said that is the best strategy in a previous video, actually.

[@givowo]

iirc trackmania replays store the inputs and the position of the vehicle, so when the game validates a replay it simulates the gameplay with the inputs and if the car is in the same position then it's valid, however there were still cheaters so the competition patch (which has a lot of anticheat upgrades i think) is now needed to claim a world record

[@Cazher]

9:50 TrackMania also record the input you did in the replay, so if the ai uses the same input, the outcome(record time) should be the same. TrackMania record also spread into AI assist record and NO AI, Manual only record. But I think this game is hard to follow the TrackMania method, as the physics isn't the same all the time as TrackMania.

[@staltus]

Late to this, but this was the best of the three

[@limbomask4745]

i still haven't seen Kosmo's video but the upside down twist is gonna be hard to beat

[@grimliver3498]

Love this game thanks for the video

[@xposed1168]

Lol "i was talking to the developer the other day" as the first place is the dev

[@Beast10x1]

I just watched kosmonaut's vid and was like where is kan's then I get a notification kan posted a vid lol.

[@ChrisCompson576]

You should show your first run on each of their tracks and maybe your best too.

[@tarakshama]

Would like to see what kind of track y’all can come up with, with more time

[@apersunthathasaridiculousl1890]

“how are you going faster than me?” “skills” _-skill issue-_

[@Z33force]

I bought the game because of your videos. It's really addictive! Already have 10 hours in the game in 3 days

[@jan_en_ik]

Verification by replays would still allow TAS speedruns unless the replays are well obfuscated

[@altaem9152]

Pro: Interesting wall riding section. Great fun, even while failing. Con: The signature Kan jump to the finish. For those of us who who play at a lesser level, there's nothing enjoyable about being unable to finish a track because we can't match the intended speed.

[@KuzkayDev]

Do you play community maps? I recently made some. They're easy to learn but very hard to master, called "Dusty Highways (2 levels)" on the workshop, took me about 3 hours each

[@Sportkid-wi7zw]

Background music in the beginning has “Cleanin Out My Closet” vibes

[@JustAWarper]

14:16 Look at the chat! Hilarious!

[@obvious2886]

jus got the game, its pretty cool thx kan for showing us this awesome new indie game : )

[@jj-lw5xx]

Kans track reminds me of the pipeline realm from acceleracers

[@masmatt1708]

13:25 disappointment then instant happiness

[@ErieLyre]

Can you add a hud over the buttons you press? I think it would be cool

[@moroblizniak4457]

Hello, I belive you like space stuff. Would you try Starbase? This game is in Beta but its playable and worth Your time. Since You are actual engineer i think you would handle SpaceShip desinger very well :) Maybe give it a shot?

[@gekfurian]

The anti-cheat method based on replays works fine on Trackmania because its physics are deterministic. Zeepkist to what I know is non-deterministic, and the same actions could lead to different results.

[@CONRAM73]

Do you have footage of the “Super League” competition? If so I would love to see a video about it (Edit) Never mind just watched kosmo’s video I would like to see the next one though

[@KazooBird]

Kan I got an idea. Instead of 15 minutes what about a longer time for more complex tracks?

[@cycleopath911]

After a few days you should post the video of you racing the other two tracks also.

[@ianhlady2270]

Can you do this but all do a certain texture so like one person is ice and someone is like something else?

[@canadianbro2052]

You should do a track that doesn't require you to move to get to the finish but if you do move you can't finish the level.

[@Hunter-bl7cr]

I wish all 3 tracks were in one video

[@MCProposition]

Nice job

[@nickbarlow5038]

We need to get ScrapMan to start playing this

[@Dutch_Chucky]

Sounds like a dutch game. Most likely from the red bull zeepkisten race

[@Skyblade12]

It’s a shame no one tried to achieve the cheese. I think it is possible, though the speed required is exacting.

[@theaumguy1621]

Didn't the devs already tell you to stay low in turns to use gravity to gain/maintain more speed?

[@joran4612]

Wow, perfect pronounciation. Like PERFECT

[@-NGC-6302-]

Aww it reminds me of STUN Runner

[@nunyobusiness835]

can you multiperson a track. have one person create one part 1 and another part 2 and so on?

[@christianjaymoralde7504]

I think this is the Algorithm D×s=t then calculate the shortest line between check point then do it agoin

[@ruok7057]

Tunnels are in almost every single video

[@Hakaishin-225]

Nice

[@animalmango6499]

Hi kan. Hope your having a great day.

[@tms_muffincleaner5045]

Lol the equation for minimum time B(x)/200 B=length of each track piece x=amount of track Say each track piece is 300 units long and there is 9 of them. Multiple 300 by 9 the divided by the max speed of 200 to get the minimum time of 13.5 seconds.

[@gobling8649]

It would be fun if you made the background music for the building timelapse a "rickroll" for april fools.

[@lowbatteryg4mer214]

You should get scrapman into this with you three

[@danthiel8623]

Yeety pipes

[@ravine00612]

I'd love to see kan play trackmania

[@dhalav]

Pretty sure Warcans could beat your 3.474 seconds record by at least one second

[@midbc1midbc199]

They should have saves as wad files.....then It's the whole level itself as played by whoever and they are small files

[@Unorthodox_kidd]

Can we get @warcans to post more of his pov on his channel?

[@alxti]

is this game free or nah? considering getting it

[@Exvinity-v2t]

It took me a moment to relize the dev was in the game

[@sherlockholmes3317]

I saw everyone aiming for the hole

[@douglaslamoureux6316]

Weird kan how staying low makes you go faster

[@alansmithee419]

8:35 You can go faster than 200 downhill.

[@zephranarx2172]

"How do you stop cheated times?" Really the only solution I've seen is that the game could record the entire race to log with the Time, that way, if someone's timescore seems ill-legitimate, it can be pulled down off the leaderboard. That's probably the 'easiest' way to do this, though.

[@mitchellmifflin4392]

Hey kAN, if you ever end up in a channel with a dev again, do you think you could ask a dev if this sill be ported to console? I don't have a pc and would love to play tnis.

[@ahrlaz4515]

Greetings from Germany!🇩🇪😅

[@Zzuqqie]

Hey kAN I have a game suggestion, hear me out… Space Engineers?? I think you would like it

[@ethanthedamonknightgod4418]

So my raking Cos 1 it was cool 😎 Kan 2 Dapper3

[@Ijnebls]

Gotta bee here before it’s 5 minutes old

[@Supp_Blue]

Blue

[@iamlucasiamaandroidsentcyb7348]

I have a series idea for scrap mechanic you could do a underwater base like what “camodo gaming” did 4 years ago

[@kalpbhavsar]

No more Lava World?

[@gobling8649]

kAN you wonder how the others is shaving of SECONDS. If I remember right, when you talked to the dev, he said the to be faster in banks, you should be on the bottom. Edit: BRUH while I was writing this, you and Kosmo talked about this.

[@jeffreyblack666]

The problem with games like this and leader boards are the non-deterministic physics. As you can get a different result each time, there is no certain "fastest" time. I think it would be better if the game had deterministic physics. Then replay files can be generated which log all inputs like in trackmania. Then you just have to deal with tool assist.

[@SkullBaster_]

I need more

[@joannachittock8606]

Dam it