Who Caused Atmora's Frozen Doom? New Discoveries Analysed - The Elder Scrolls Lore

[@greenflame070]

The idea of a snow elf child appearing to tell them that it was caused by their actions sounds more like how a bard would write an admission into a story that they think the genocide of the Snow Elves was wrong.

[@realzachfluke1]

Yessss, it does, doesn't it? Good looking out

[@tor_ras91]

It feels like the story about the Snow Elf is meant to tie in with a lore tidbit from Skyrim where they say that they blame all sorts of bad things that happen on the Falmer. Your milk goes bad, Falmer did it, lost your ring? Falmer stole it. Continent of your ancestors freezes over, bloody Falmer, at it again with the shenanigans lol

[@cracmar03]

Would make sense if they blamed them BEFORE killing them as to justify slaughter. Like they made Atmora unlivable so Ysgramor ventured to avenge Atmora AND Saarthal. However this thing seems to more either real tale of Atmorans OR easy explanation as to why Nords never again saw any ship from Atmora. Gold Road has bunch of books, and yes one of them was superstitious nords 'lecturing' nord youth about other races 'which aren't real' .. like say according to him lamia or imga aren't real. However Atmora froze so unnatural, and we know Falmer primarily worshipped Auri-el WHO IS grand enemy in Atmoran pantheon around Shor/Lorkhan .. that it might be Atmorans retelling tale of curse straight from Auri-el in shape of an innocent child to symbolise the death of many - as Ysgramor killed EVERYONE he came accross, regardless if they even were aware of Saarthal or not - to punish godless Atmorans for genocide of his people. Nobody said Aedra of TES aren't prone to revenges and curses. Auri-el and Xarxes already proved to be fickle by TES V alone with vampirism coming to play. The other book they have in Gold Road was more baffling final memories of Yokuda sinking .. which .. I imagined many times how it looked and not in sinle one of imaginations I imagined .. that.

[@leonmenssen999]

Da jews of the elder scrolls universe😂

[@grzegorzflorek5623]

Strangely enough, it is at least partially true. One of the random quests from Companions i got playing Skyrim recently was to recover some random heirloom stolen by the Falmer from someone's house.

[@UnswimmingFishYT]

Considering the freezing of Atmora seems to have actually caused a lot of the Nord migration to begin with and was already happening, the idea that Snow Elves caused it doesn't line up and may very well have just been starvation messing with the heads of the men who said they saw that. Plausibility allows for it since some Snow Elves were probably alive then, but one has to consider how they'd do this. First you need some of the survivors to be incredibly powerful mages with experience in weather magic. Second you need enough resources available to them to get or build a ship and sail at least near Atmora, if not stop there. Third one has to assume this group of elves managed to get past a coastline of Skyrim controlled by Nords at this point, and either not get noticed or kill every Nord who saw them. Finally you'd have to assume these people could manage to perform magic on a continental level with long-term effects. It's not completely outside the ballpark of what some mages in TES have pulled off, but it's far more likely that a group of half-dead Nords just started hallucinating or outright made up a story to blame elves for another problem as fits their history. They certainly had plenty of conflict with Dunmer and Dwemer, and even killed Bretons until they realized it was a human race, so blaming a major natural disaster or magical accident on elves lines up perfectly.

[@charliec.-lite1466]

I agree that the snow elves did not cause the Frost Fall. That being said, Something about this figure they described seemed odd to me. If the Atmorans wanted to fabricate a Snow Elf to frame the situation on, you'd think they'd come up with some sort of imposing looking wizard or battlmage. But a child in a thin gown? That's so specific and unbelievable that not even a liar would risk including it in their story. I'm willing to consider that they were telling the truth when they said they saw this child, but it was no elf. If it were me, I would think it were something supernatural, perhaps even diefic in nature.

[@cracmar03]

It was symbol of innocence for that slaughter. And think about which diety would cause massive "There is no Summer in Atmora" as to freeze everyone to death except these .. It must have been Auri-el. Auri-el is primary diety of Falmer and Auri-el is prone to vengeance .. just look what he did to Lorkhan. Even Yokudans agree that Ruptga is rather vengeful.

[@dasshift6925]

​@@cracmar03 That seems to line up pretty well

[@badluck5647]

Of Beyond Skyrim expansions, Atmora is the one I'm looking forward to most.

[@windless4770]

Same do we know when it will be released

[@badluck5647]

@@windless4770 Before TES6

[@peterduprey7286]

Damn I hope that’s true.

[@monkaeyes3417]

​@@badluck5647well currently the universe will end before TES6 so that's not a great benchmark lmao

[@elmine7707]

​@@monkaeyes3417 the next kalpa will be old by the time ES6 is released

[@dragonberrymead9525]

True story or not, I do like the idea of some of the remaining Snow Elves moving over to Atmora. The Nords took their ancestral homeland, so they took the Nords.

[@angryvaultguy]

It's pretty poetic because nords were created at the throat of the world and atmora apparently belonged to the elves, so in a way everyone is back at their ancestral homeland once again

[@Thunderous333]

​@@angryvaultguyWhere does the lore touch on this? I've never heard of humans coming in at the throat of the world or Elves owning Atmora

[@Abudzin]

​@@Thunderous333humans were not created at the Throat of the World. It is a pretty well established myth that *Nords* were born out of Kynareth's breath at the Throat of the World. But the Snow Elves allegedly coming from Atmora is nonsense. They are descended from the Altmer, just like all other mer, and arrived to Skyrim where they made their home when they split from the rest of their kin.

[@Fluffy_Penguin727]

@@Abudzin *Aldmer

[@Abudzin]

@@Fluffy_Penguin727 no, Altmer. There is Aldmeri Dominion, but the race is called Altmer.

[@minotaur818]

I am putting my money on the story fabricated for whatever purposes the writer had (telling a tale tale stoking hatred for the elves as you said). It also fits really well with the theme of one of the storyline of the new ESO expansion, that not everything written down should be taken at face value.

[@CommanderSputnik]

Nords love faulting the elves for plenty of things anyway

[@letsdothisshiat1162]

My personal theory is that shor and kyne were working behind the scenes and making atmora colder to push the Nords into Tamriel

[@fumarc4501]

While I too am skeptical of the validity of the Snow Elves being the cause for climate change of Atmora, I do also believe if it was already happening then it could be accelerating by magical means. Plenty of magical storms have happened before. Plus it’s fun to imagine that the snow elves having a higher tolerance for the cold and building a new civilization among the ruins of the ancient Nords. Almost equivalent exchange.

[@neasper]

Mayby it wasn’t the Falmer but one of the aedra they worshipped that wanted vengeance like Au’riel or another powerful being using their power to either begin the frostfall or making it more severe/speed it up.

[@TorvusVae]

The only thing that makes me think there might be a grain of truth to this story that the snow elves somehow caused the frostfall is that the description of the snow elf child sounds a lot like a wispmother, and I subscribe to the theory that wispmothers in Skyrim are undead or ghostly snow elves. I could see the last snow elves, desperate for justice after the Nords wiped out their society, creating some ritual to punish the Atmorans.

[@Twilight5007]

It would be cool if a colony of snow elves still existed in atmora and maybe thrived there. They have such a neat aesthetic in Skyrim and id like to know more about them

[@Galimeer5]

The idea of Ysgramor inventing a "runic language based on elven principles" likemy comes from the real-world fact that the norse never wrote down their own mythology despite having written language. That's why norse mythology has so few sources and absolutely zero pre-christian sources. So with that in mind, we can assume the atmorans had some primitive form of written language, but Ysgramor was the first person to codify it, using the same rules the elves had for their language. Kinda like the difference between hieroglyphs and the phoenician alphabet.

[@WASDLeftClick]

Ysgramor could also have adopted elven writing implements. Much like the Norse runes in real life, perhaps the Nord runes were exclusively carved into stone or wood or another hard material. Maybe Ysgramor introduced both a simplified runic alphabet as well as the idea of using something like a clay tablet and stylus, or even ink, quills, and parchment.

[@anderporascu5026]

The unreliable truth, I heard humans had two origins, one as cousin spirits to the elves who wandered and another as being reformed from dragons but just as well both are subject to who's telling it.

[@DawnovertheWhiteSea]

"Some in Winterhold who were not there later scoffed at the tale." But it sounded like the people in Winterhold did not take the sailor's words as a joke. Instead, their first reaction was silence and fear.

[@angelphoenix7784]

What if. What if the snow elves that survived the extention of their race. was sent back in time by the dwarven elves. We know the dwarves disappeared and turned the majority of the snow elves into Falmer. What isnt clear is how many weren't given something to turn them blind but were sent back in time.

[@PairFreebird]

I believe, that Atmora could been lost in result of Auri-El intervention. If I remember right, in lore Aldmeris was lost in result of Lorkhan intervention. So may be that last stage of rivalry between Auri-El and Lorkhan. Both gods destroyed homeland of most devoted followers of there counterpart.

[@xIAMKARMAx]

WHAT!?!? I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS! I got the gold road DLC can't wait to play it!!

[@Crimson_Mysterium]

I love the vagueries that are left open for interpretation in Elder Scrolls lore. I would think the reason behind the Snow Elves never using this world class magic is because it also affected them. It would be a suicide, "if we're dying, you're dying," kind of spell. Whether by the effect of the spell, or that the spell required a combined lifeforce sacrifice to activate. Which may explain why some of the Snow Elves were sent to shelter with the Dwemer people (huge mistake). This is just a thought I had on this well made and explained lore video. I look forward to the next.

[@Sithis-zs9cy]

The description of the elf sounds a lot like a wisp mother to me

[@igavinwood]

I love to keep up with your vids on the lore of this franchise. I can only imagine how truly massive Tolkien would have been if he had the tech and reach of media that exists today. If it's possible, for a future video would you be able to cover the lore covering the Atmoran migration to Tamriel and Saarthal? I have seen conflicting stories about this and can never quite get it straight with the time lines involved, so that would tie in nicely with the new Gold Road info. Thank for the vids.

[@elchuchas542]

TES has A LOT of Lore of things that I dont even understand

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

Yes. A lot of it is confusing, and some of it contradicts itself. This is part of the joy of Elder Scrolls. All the endless ways we have to fight for understanding it at all.

[@cracmar03]

You have what 9 different races with their perspectives telling you story. To know the truth you need to take few of them and then strip down the information and compare.

[@KDB349]

@@YourWaywardDestinyyou say joy I say annoying

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

@@KDB349 Then why are you in this fandom

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

If you release enough new videos, Bethesda might have to resort to telling us part of the plot of ES6.

[@rebleo4191]

short but interesting

[@MHWdJ]

Its not even certain if wether Atmora is the true homeland of (Nord related-) Humanity. Elven lore mentions ALTmora (Elder Wood) as a proto-elven kingdom. And Nord lore mentions the nords being breathed onto the throat of the world (in Skyrim) by Kyne. So if we take this at face value, men took Atmora from the elves and elves later either took skyrim from men or settled a then empty region. That being said, the lore is increasingly unreliable the further back in time you go. The Dawn era is suggested to not even have linear time as we know it, similar to a dragon break. This would make establishing a ordered flow of events completely impossible. Not to mention the unreliability of the sources provided in the series. Those mostly being oral traditions, anecdotes, propaganda and otherwise biased or easily influenced.

[@pepethedeplorablefrog2224]

The white walkers that's who

[@facelessnameless]

Snow elves don’t want the nords in skyrim so the remaining ones do the logical thing and take away the only other option for where the Nords would want to live. Just a dumb explanation imo

[@chrismills2439]

well just remember the dwemer had a hand in the night of tears and it would not surprise me if they were the ones that sacked that one city and not the falmer. the evidence is in the game. that one dwemer stronghold that has the search all of tameriel for magical artifacts of great power. The Dwemer constructs deal steam or electrical damage both of which are burn injuries

[@vexili]

@@chrismills2439wot

[@connorsmith1005]

What are you even trying to say?

[@Tyanus2]

​@@connorsmith1005He says that freezing the place your enemies are from makes those enemies migrate to you.

[@MysteriousPear802]

this happened after they all died though, so it does make sense kind of

[@namor3607]

I don't necessarily believe the story but I absolutely believe that this is a story that some people would tell, in-universe.

[@escapemenot5860]

Ugh I was hoping you'd talk about this book!!!!

[@cnut7383]

If its true I dont think it was a literal actively done thing but more of a curse. The vengeful souls of the genocided snow elves coalesced in atmora where cold of snow and death made the land freeze over type of thing

[@gandalf71729]

Somehow this reminds me of white frost from witcher

[@DrowChyld]

I wonder if this will throw a wrench into Beyond Skyrim's Atmora

[@xyreniaofcthrayn1195]

Is it possible a youngling akaviri kamal happened to cross the starving nords but they mistook it as a snow elven kid in delirium and skyrim level barding over the generations embellished it beyond recognition.

[@EvlEgle]

Be really cool if the snow elves are alive and well on atmorra.

[@RandomRikster]

I feel like it makes perfect sense for Falmer refugees to flee to Atmora, especially if they heard that it was becoming inhabitable for the humans. I don't think they caused the frostfall though.

[@_tdv_4027]

I would love for them to add a secluded snow elf area hidden in eso and thriving even the same place in Skyrim even before it got overrun would be nice just to see them and the culture they have I fr hate the nords for killing them all

[@jellymop]

This snow elf story is extremely unbelievable. This literally never happens in known human history so why would it happen in Tamriel? Since most of the relationships and history and conquest is based on human history. At least in the canon up through Skyrim.

[@on_6933]

So, an eye for an eye. I guess that makes sense but feels a little underwhelming being found in a lore book instead of a quest.

[@ImperialKnowledge]

My lore senses are tingling and with all this new atmora lore I think we will get something in the future

[@on_6933]

@@ImperialKnowledge true! Why else would they add this hyper specific lore in the gold road of all places, Now I'm excited.

[@mygetawayart]

​@@ImperialKnowledge A lot of fans want a Winterhold expansion, maybe Winterhold and Dawnstar.

[@cracmar03]

@@mygetawayart I suspect Winterhold. Beyond origins of this book, we dealt with Ulfsild and Shalidor and they are pre-Mages Guild for Skyrim. Well biggest Mages Guild in Skyrim IS Winterhold. And it will be interesting since it's before it fell apart to sea as well. Loads of potential here.

[@Formoka]

So there was a moth cult (Moth Cult from Fallout 76) and a serpent cult (House Varun from Starfield) does that mean the goat cult could be a game reference or is this just correlating but not significant?

[@cracmar03]

I think for Moth and Serpent you don't have to look anywhere but TES V. You had these symbols on the many puzzles for Dragon Claws. As for goat .. I think it was Faun. Whom are creepy as hell in ESO.

[@xyreniaofcthrayn1195]

Elder scrolls has the moth priests dragons are usually described as serpentine so the dragon cult so eh

[@Altrantis]

One interesting thing i that falmer are more frost resistant than the nords.

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

Man... Wonder how this'll affect the writing of the Skyrim mod for Atmora...

[@shalidor8102]

It probably won't have much impact. We've got to keep in mind that Elder Scrolls often has unreliable narrators as authors of many books.

[@beru56mlg]

Or the Snow Elves might have sent survivors, or an expedition to Atmora, and used whatever means to worsen the the already naturally occurring climate changes. Even if the beginning of the changes starter to happen centuries earlier, it may have been used by the SEs much later in time. So, both accounts could be correct.

[@Wierdoandzero]

Ha, Jokes on you, little elf, you gotta live here now! Joke aside, Guess we gotta purge Atmora of those knife-ears too. Second joke aside, The Irony.

[@craigjovanovich6450]

I thought the Snow Demons would have a piece of this somehow.

[@skyfrostthunderrock]

makes me think that maybe all of Tamriel needs to ready themselves against the Frost. the Nords left Atmora because it had been freezing over time... northern Skyrim is in a perma-frost. i think the cold could be spreading.. maybe, it's the ultimate doom for Tamriel.

[@mygetawayart]

considering how much time has passed since the Frostfall, if what you say was to be the case, Tamriel should've been frozen already.

[@PatGunn]

Commercial canon isn't the only canon

[@corbindoesthings1795]

could you break down the whole story of gold road? i don't feel like watching a 7 hour let's play and there's currently no videos about it

[@The_Crimson_Lion]

Hello there Imperial Knowledge, what is your opinion on TES now being a multiverse?

[@CoadyShay]

There have been multiverse elements in TES for decades. Kalpas, dragon breaks, and Lyg, off the top of my head, all provide evidence for a multiverse, for those who want to make the argument. What did you mean?

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

@@CoadyShay Multiverse does make the God-Head kinda weirder of a thing.

[@ImperialKnowledge]

As one other commenter said there have been elements of it for years, tho this is the first time we concretely see it. I’d love to see a complete theory on how this could factor into kalpas and lyg as I imagine they wrote the new lore around that in some way but I havent fully finished everything yet in the new dlc (tho i did read a few lore summaries so cant be spoiled)

[@utgardaloki1234]

i don't mean to be rude but the frostfall of atmora could be because nirn is probably entering some sort of ice age. edit- it is just a thought i had listening to your video.

[@joaovitorreisdasilva9573]

If the story is true, there are at least 2 somewhat massive elf empires by the 4th era. The falmer and maomer are pretty much untouched by other races of tamriel (assuming they don't face whatever at their respectives homes). This is so weird, but I kinda like it ngl. I hate elder scroll elves, though.

[@MBP1918]

Hyperborea

[@sadboiz4lyfe]

ESO is so good... I'm convinced 100% of ESOhate is just misplaced anger by people who feel wronged that money is spent on a game they don't want (bc they don't care for MMOs) and not on the game they do want (TES6). Meanwhile, millions are enjoying ESO for what it is.

[@alphasword5541]

Nah, a lot of the lore is just bad. Not all of it by any stretch but to say that it's just that is kind of absurd. A lot of people also hate Emil Pagliarulo and arne't exactly eloquent about it but that doesn't make it invalid a criticism.

[@minotaur818]

@@alphasword5541 which lore do you consider bad?

[@Barcock_]

ESO is shite

[@vexili]

Tbf it was pretty fucking dog shit at the start

[@alphasword5541]

@@minotaur818 Mount lore, Alinor's architecture, Legacy of the Bretons, almost everything about Ithelia's design and overall character, Ebonheart Pact formation story, Skyrim being this unchanged land for over hundreds of years visually because its more Skyrim nostalgia bait than anything else. The way that Necrom seemingly ripped off Project Tamriel and also made it so that house indoril just has, barely any land. Those are just a list of things on the top of my head and again not everything is bad, and the focus of what they want to achieve can just be different from what I'd normally be drawn to. But from a design or writing perspective a lot of it is uninspired and more interested in generating more fantasyTM slop in a way that drives the series away from having a unique identity. Though they're doing fairly well in terms of artistic integrity or whatever considering they're an MMO studio. The main issue comes into any major changes that they may make that will impact future mainline games as well as people who think lore is about how many literal details you can recall about something.

[@axellion4573]

Now... I'm not racist but hear me out. SNOW elves....

[@waldirnacarath]

how will this affect beyound skyrim atmora ?

[@bigcazza5260]

so beyond skyrim atmora just died more than it already did

[@OttarErOsom]

My theory is that some writer at Bethesda thought this was cool and deep without considering existing lore or realizing this new lore is dumber and lazier than what could otherwise be reasonably inferred from previous sources.

[@connorsmith1005]

Well... That's boring.

[@ImperialKnowledge]

Considering its most likely unreliable narrator I am not too worried

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

Why do you propagate a likely myth of "500" companions? This is like Thermopylae. 300 Spartans is a well known fact. But there were 50.000 other Greeks. I deny the story of 500 Nords conquering Skyrim as possible. Infact that's impossible and improbable. I am not saying there weren't 500 names in history I'm denying. Of course as elite bodyguard or commanders they may of existed. But as a whole? Only a batshit crazy person think 9 million snow elves (I am assigning 1 million elves per nine holds for purpose of argument sake. In reality it's unknown how many elves existed) If they number millions, millions of magic using human hating elves cannot be defeated by 500 companions. In reality it will take I estimate 40.000 to 60.000 Nords regular soldiers on top of the 500 elite companions to wage a successful ethnic cleansing. Secondly they couldn't of done it alone. I believe in the pre nord human theory I.E the Nedes. The army of Ysgrammor may of enlisted anywhere between 50.000 and 95.000 Nedes that the Nords gave weapons and armor too. As well as organized instead of leave as disparate tribes. Likely trained and given actual commandship by Ysgrammor. If there were only 500 Nords than they would need to enlist anywhere between 150.000 and 200.000 Nedes. In general you need to make a video about this logical discrepancy. Lastly the likely ethnogenesis of Nords is a mixture of Nedes and Atmorans. Not just isolated Atmorans. Throughout this comment I called Atmorans Nords, that's through cultural domination anachronisms as technically Nord is the half children of Atmorans who assimilated the native Nedes. Last discrepancy I'll like to cover. We have sources of Atmorans migrations before and after 500 companions. I doubt all Atmorans died in Saarthal. Some no doubt we're in other coastal regions And other areas the Atmorans were probably still arriving alongside Ysgrammor, albeit as seperate. Atmorans may of joined Ysgrammor throughout the years of the war to replenish numbers. Remember the Atmorans may of mixed with Nedes and that is also why Nords were sympathetic towards Allesian rebellion. Common kinship. It's also postulated that Bretons have dual Nordic and Nedic blood not just Nedic blood proving Atmorans moved to high rock as well. And Some suggest Colovians are part proto-Atmoran or at most early Nords. While Nibenese remained pure Nede. So irregardless if mix Nords migrated or if pure Atmorans migrated. Such ethnogenesis is anthropologically, logically and socially possible and makes ethnic and logistical sense and clears up many discrepancies and issues. Along with weird numbers and contradictory accounts about human migrations that seem to predate and of course post date Ysgrammor. It's how I generally view the situation. I really hope you make a video covering my claim because this does absolutely need to be discussed.

[@ImperialKnowledge]

Already talked about that in multiple videos including my most popular one where I say Ysgramor came with a large army as I highly doubt the 500 story. I dont remember talking about the 500 in this video though, so I dont propagate anything

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

@@ImperialKnowledge you mentioned Ysgrammor which is propagation by association when you don't announce a clarification. As for mentioning story doubt I still think non the less deserves a dedicated video. The 500 companions story is admirable. But most likely not true. And may be legends built upon centuries of skirmishes.