‘Who is more morally repugnant: Johnson or Farage?’ | James O'Brien - The Whole Show

[@johndewhurst6609]

Choosing between Farage and Johnson which one is the most repugnant, is like choosing which is the ugliest, slimiest slug eating your veg garden. Over brexit both of them campaigned to stop fresh food coming from the EU.

[@oldwoman7047]

this is like asking which food is more rotten, the pile with the mold on it or the pile with the magots. Morally repugnant is like honesty, there are no degrees of honesty, either you're honest or you're not

[@daftgowk1]

One let thousands die while stealing billions, the other wouldn't think twice about doing the same. No doubt Engerlund will make terrible decisions at this vote too, it's what they do

[@jonathandnicholson]

Immorality can graded. All immorality is immoral (obviously), but a mortal sin is obviously worse than venial sin.

[@mhoppy6639]

They’re both fundamentally dishonest brokers. Johnson is a europhile and farage shorted the uk economy and the pound when we committed harakiri in 2016.

[@worthalook4870]

Farage over anyone on the left by a long mile

[@johnrussell3961]

It started with Cameron. The cleverest thing the devil did was to persuade people he didn’t exist.

[@BooshGaming4K-nq7be]

Over-chess bet, not mated.

[@Rosskles]

​@@BooshGaming4K-nq7be what?

[@englishstark6100]

Not so with Evil OBrien his uncanny resemblance to Peter Sutcliffe is a warning.

[@donmac7780]

To this day, I fail to understand why MI5 didn't immediately arrest Boris Johnson upon his insistance of placing the son of a KGB agent into the Lords. Merely making the request should have forced his immediate resignation from Parliament.

[@ukqwerty999]

Are you expecting Mi5 to explain why to you.

[@aviduke]

Not his only KGB connection either

[@alexanderstefanov6474]

I'd rather they dealt with him like they did unfortunately did with Dr Kelly

[@ArtyFactual_Intelligence]

As long as they give money to the Conservative Party Tories don't care who they hang around with.

[@charlielynes]

@@alexanderstefanov6474 NEVER FORGET!!

[@mickreaddin4979]

It's like having to choose between a bucket of cold sick or a bucket of diarrhoea.

[@danmayberry1185]

Thrush vs piles, mate.

[@anonomous8719]

That’s starmer or obrien in a nutshell

[@PatrickWhelan-sp1th]

Why is it so hard to answer this question? The damage both these characters have done to the UK is unimaginable and will be with us for a long time

[@mrbrownz554]

I didn't see that poll

[@michaelbright9162]

I don’t think there is much difference when you look at the damage both of them have done to the UK.

[@Refflog]

We all know that Britain has always happily enjoyed immigrants at a level of around 40,000 per year net immigration, please correct me if I’m wrong but there’s been 2.5 million in the last 2 years. So what with the strain on hospitals, housing etc, why on earth do people think Farage is incorrect in his assertion that it needs to be brought back down to acceptable levels. It seems like common sense to me. As I say if this is wrong please correct me with facts.

[@timvella1817]

Blair is the man who made sure Britain' become an Islamic state

[@Robaylesbury]

I find this whole Farage / Ukraine thing a bit odd. I mean, it is possible to totally condemn Putin's illegal invasion whilst ALSO acknowledging that it is NOT beyond the realm that the West MIGHT have poked the bear. It doesn't seem that implausible. People seem to be seeing this in a somewhat one dimensional way.

[@jammysmears4077]

Yeah, don't provoke the school bully. Brilliant advice.

[@stephenhill545]

Provocation is not an excuse for invading a sovereign state. It's BS anyway. Eastern Europe doesn't want anything to be under Russian control. It provides them neither security nor prosperity.

[@tonylennon7979]

James , Your replies show there are a great number of people who admire liars and fascists , or anyone who gets away with illegality.

[@SmilingAnglerfish-oj9id]

Have a day off

[@billysastard8779]

Word salad.

[@mickreaddin4979]

​@@billysastard8779Which is exactly the strategy of people like Johnson/Farage. Liars and charlatans will offer simplistic answers to complicated questions in an effort to appeal to the uneducated.

[@MikiCab1]

You are discussing the difference between 🐶 💩 by breed of the dog. They are both 🐶 💩 irregardless the breed of the dog.

[@Stewart2240]

But worse than those two are those that back them to the hilt - they wouldn't survive without them.

[@tednindo6761]

i'd say it was a draw

[@jeremygough1387]

Two sides of the same backside?

[@Stewart2240]

A "backside" has a useful purpose, though.

[@methanedirigible]

Two chocolate starfish

[@TheLucanicLord]

1:37:25 The problem with these Scout's badge doctors is they don't know what they don't know and if anything out of the ordinary happens they're lost. Like any kind of corner cutting, it works right until it doesn't.

[@parster2010]

It’s like Fred West calling Shipman an evil bstrd.

[@belindamay8063]

@parster. Not funny.

[@parster2010]

@@belindamay8063 don’t think it was supposed to be funny. It was a comparative, if I wanted it be funny I would have used more light hearted references and put 😂😂 at the end of the comment. These two people have tried their best to destroy the country that I love so I thought that using 2 monsters was an appropriate comparative.

[@michaelmouse4024]

Porridge Johnson or batrocoidal farage. The evil of 2 lessers.. I'd say farage... Something of the own-uniform wearing, 'militia-group meeting in a forest & firing old rifles' Moseleyite about him. Why do these callers use first names as if they know them? Eli was a bit dim wasn't he?

[@Durka-Durka01]

James (I could be wrong) O'Brien still crying about Farage, bless! 😂

[@sergeborrelli2489]

Both are court jesters at best, and an embarrassment to the UK, who are already the laughing stock of the world to begin with.

[@petelawless811]

Laughing stock to the world ahh did we hurt your family is that why you talk trash does it still hurt

[@larsbjrnson3101]

Yes we have been laughing since 2021 😂🍿

[@paramotorhead]

@@larsbjrnson3101just remember that half of us are quite decent and we’d be laughing with you if we didn’t have to suffer the consequences of the other half.

[@larsbjrnson3101]

@@paramotorheadI'm laughing at the other part, and I feel bad for Scotland too. It really is sad you are all dragged down by this and I'm aware nobody born after 1998 have had a choice in the matter.

[@paramotorhead]

@@larsbjrnson3101 I understand. It’s truly awful to live in Britain after 14 years of this corrupt government, especially as I can’t really escape from it now because of Brexit. Which I had planned to do as soon as possible.

[@chelloandra]

Oh true equals although I despise Farage for longer

[@RichardHuffman]

In this fight, I'm rooting for injuries.

[@smellslikethinice1107]

Serious injuries, A&E serious.

[@Malawei-bu8jq]

I Despise this man and the show, it's going.......

[@franciscollingwood7372]

1:37:36 Who underwrites the decisions & diagnoses of the lesser-qualified and cheaper staff member? The regional health authority? The health service, nationally? The individual who was health minister at the time…?🤔

[@peterabbott6095]

Both are morally reprehensible and dangerous for the fact they both command a strong following with their supporters that latch on to both despite the multiple evidence that both are strangers to the truth and use their popularity for their own self gratification and aggrandisement. How anyone can genuinely believe either says something about their supporters. There is enough evidence regarding these two and who they support that should make any sensible person run a mile.

[@Clansman63]

JAMES O'BRIEN

[@Derekthompzen1]

Revolting has both these individuals . However it was on only Johnson watch that so many people died during the covid period and the lies told to the British public and parliament . So Boris the delinquent.

[@colinmathie2710]

Its close, but my vote goes to clown shoes Johnson.

[@TinaBUTCHER-ph1ph]

Been pondering this all day but Johnson just pips the Fuhrer in repugnancy simply because Farage doesn't try to hide his lack of a moral compass.

[@tamhunter5025]

Both

[@leesimone2]

I don't know how I missed this video until today. However, I am over here listening to the first part of your video this way 😮😅🍿🤔🤣.

[@deancyrus1]

42:38 thanks his mum for your service, strength and courage 🙏

[@garyhockaday8022]

It’s like having to choose between two turds , and you have to eat one … a very tough decision James

[@RM-to8xr]

Keep crying leftys.

[@haraldisdead]

Nah banning the English flag in England is wild.

[@davidbaker4095]

Such smart comments from the Georgina and the specialist for the smart comments Problem here is someone is going to be blaming the physician associates and not the management of the system .

[@pamelaadam9207]

Most of the pas i know were sprcialist nurses who then did additional training most are used for the taking bloods follow up infirmation, giving following a consultant meeting. It is a cost cutting thing we can't get away from it

[@robinmcarthur3287]

nothing to choose between them!

[@jaffsb3341]

First of All , PA AA are not doctors, never been to medical school.. secondly, the psychiatrist has got no clue about this issue and safety / legalities sbout it, and the reason psychiatrists dont have PAs. All she was talking about is sge was seen by a PA and she had an amazing experience. Just one question to ask everybody , would you let a 2 years trained non doctor treat you or somebody who spent 5 years in medical school and 5-7 years in extensive rigorous training ? You All know the answer. Stop messing up please.

[@Frithogar]

I am getting a better idea of why many women say they would rather meet a bear than a man in a forest.

[@EllaBella-76]

@Frithogar •Now I am concerned someone made you meet Farage and Or Bojo I threatened to do a die in over my Epilepsy meds -But the mere thought of Kiss of life 🫦 by Boris -Nah I skip it spend my hours looking for 3 X epilepsy meds …

[@ArtyFactual_Intelligence]

Or a bare man ?

[@ElizabethWilliams-i8m]

Thankyou.

[@grumpgaming493]

Physician associates are basically pcso's of the medical profession, cheaper and under qualified.

[@SupernaturalView]

Long time caller first time listener 😂

[@Refflog]

James it’s called authenticity which Boris is definitely not, he lies to suit himself every time he speaks

[@nataliesharonwoodhouse9870]

A pair of chancers

[@bobgoodall1603]

No mention of 700,000 dead men which tells me everything i need to know and that im on the wrong channel.

[@Mighty5754]

a draw 0 0 or it could be farage because he is a supporter of trump

[@jessehopper8996]

Incredibly well put by Francis, I was just about to type something to that effect when his call came through.

[@ianclarke5404]

Haha , and we have braverman suddenly espousing fake concerns over a 14 year old child poverty issue 2 weeks into a new labour government.

[@stevewilliamsbiz1080]

Careful with binary referendums

[@catherinemartin6258]

Both are stains on our country

[@michellethompson5057]

In America they mostly use ARNP (Advance Nurse Practitioners) PA((Physician Assistant) they and the nurses do most of the work and report to the doctors and then the doctor may see the patient if the patient request to see them or if the patient has something acutely going on with the patient.

[@akhan1892]

The UK PAs are no where near the level of training of American PAs (also plenty of American doctors don’t agree with their PAs either)

[@clarecollins2547]

They are both as bad as each other only Johnson has been in a position to show exactly how bad he is.

[@TA-eo2ww]

FARAGE IS CORRECT!!! And I Agree With The Gentleman That Being Asked To Choose Between The Two Is Like Being Asked To "CHOOSE BETWEEN THE CRAY TWINS!!!".

[@debedeelouise243]

I'm not a fan of either.. though Johnson is worse because he pretends to suit his narrative.. whilst Farage is at least open about his lack of morals . Though both are completely awful

[@MikeBlair-ce1er]

Six of one and half dozen of the other.

[@happychappy7115]

Bodge way worse for knowing the repugnance of his machivellian pursuit of self aggrandisement at any cost, and he still chooses immorality.😮

[@nakabob1930]

this like mom and dad fighting and kids has to pick a side..

[@markhayward7400]

Why does it have to be 'either/or'?

[@TheGaryinWales]

My sister was seen for 2.5 years by a GP who kept prescribing her pain killers for a trapped nerve in her shoulder, turns out it was stage 4 lung cancer and she died earlier this year. If associates can help with 'minor' issues then GPs might have more time to do their job properly

[@akhan1892]

Im a GP who works with PAs. I agree we would love more time with patients. But I would argue serious problems can present as “minor illness” initially. Highly trained experienced doctors can miss these so the solution isn’t to replace them with poorly trained PAs.

[@TheGaryinWales]

​​@@akhan1892I agree, but what is the solution to ensure GPs aren't just 'processing' people. In our local surgery the GPs are flat out and can't get you out of there fast enough. The fact is GPs are failing. If we need so many more that it would take 10 years to fix the problem, we need an interim solution or more people are going to die needlessly. The NHS in the UK has become so bad that the only solution at the moment is, don't get sick. My son has been on a waiting list for 2 years (he is 9 years old) and all we get is letters saying sorry 'it's the strikes fault'.

[@akhan1892]

@@TheGaryinWales “processing people”. What do you think PAs are doing? It’s quantity over quality. On paper more patients are being seen but actually they’re making more mistakes (I’ve had to mop up the PAs mistakes). It also adds way more work for the whole system as GPs have to supervise them, do their prescriptions and X-rays, also they’re quality of hospital referrals are worse / inappropriate referrals are higher so clogs up the hospital system and actually makes the waiting list longer. They’re a false economy.

[@akhan1892]

@@TheGaryinWales the solution is to 1- increase the number of training jobs for actually doctors (which have not increased in 10years) so we can hire more of them 2- end rotational doctors training so we don’t have to move hospitals every 4-6months and actually get trained properly 3- get rid of the ARRS funding scheme in GP so practices can hire actual doctors and nurses (currently they are not allowed to use that funding to hire actual GPs or nurses, so are hiring PAs instead because it’s cheaper)

[@akhan1892]

@@TheGaryinWales also it’s definitely not the strikes fault. Resident doctors have only been striking for the last year but waiting lists shot up way before then. That’s just flat Tory lies. And if doctors don’t change the system now you’ll end up with a the end of the NHS and a 2tier system where poor people will not be able to afford private healthcare.

[@JohnC-nl5xs]

Where does Blair fit into this, as you are mentioning morally repugnant politicians !

[@debs2998]

Who’s more repugnant. James O’Brien or Sadiq Khan?

[@dameonwalker8994]

Farage.

[@rainfallenonmyshoes8471]

the liars that promised £350 million a day for the NHS in order to sell the Brexit disaster.

[@XAVR_]

Your mum

[@ChookwhackerAlby]

I reckon you can add George Galloway to that comparison

[@HometownUnicorn]

Okay I make a suggestion. Could you please just start streaming this when the show is actually on cuz I would rather just watch it when the show is on instead of waiting till later when you post it at like 10:00 at night.

[@ArtyFactual_Intelligence]

nah. It's best like this. The ads and the newsbreaks are edited out. This is useful.

[@HometownUnicorn]

@@ArtyFactual_Intelligence that's fine. you just don't watch the live one if they do it. simple.

[@myriaddsystems]

It's strange Johnson's starting to look more like Trump with a each passing day with that freakish hairdo

[@monkeyboy8424]

The third choice should have been billionaire Ritchie Sunak with his broken promise of "government integrity, professionalism and accountability" - he easily wins.

[@Elspm]

They're both awful, just in different flavours. But then, I can't say either Rishi or Keir strike me as incredibly moral individuals either.

[@PatrickWhelan-sp1th]

What's wrong with Keir Starmers morals I think you're just jumping on the bandwagon

[@mickreaddin4979]

​@@PatrickWhelan-sp1thTo which Starmer would say, "I do have morals! Many many morals, and if you don't like the ones I'm offering, I have plenty of others."

[@ArtyFactual_Intelligence]

@@mickreaddin4979 Trite

[@pipins3616]

Why is this question relevant unless you have nothing else to say today, get a proper job

[@edwinflower]

Who is the most repugnant asks the most repugnant of presenters

[@equaliser2265]

Below Jimmy Saville they are both saints.

[@mojalalunia]

It seems like James got an order to stop talking about Israel. Shame.

[@Novella47]

Maybe people of seeing Islamic double standards? He should cover Nigeria and Somalia. Maybe the forced conversions in india?

[@ElizabethWilliams-i8m]

So these P As are just like 'ask jeves'.

[@adamabdool5959]

Why is Farage morally bankrupt? He has given an opinion. He is not glorifying Putin or Russia. His opinion is no different from many others.

[@grahamjames1614]

you really need to think again, and in a little more depth my friend!!! Farage is EVIL and cares only for himself ( I feel confident that eventually we will find out that he was bankrolled by Putin to cause trouble in EU in order for him to march into Ukraine and take it over!!!)

[@emofrige96]

Timestamp petition

[@keithemerson6002]

You are O'Bore.

[@douglasainslie4135]

It’s like who the worst O’Brien or Ferrari this man O’Brien is still on about brexit he can’t talk about anybody the Carl beech broadcasting on his show was the worst I have ever heard full of lies nothing happened to him about that disgusting show

[@lindabell2465]

Both as bad as each other

[@rymixxx]

It's Spiders-Man

[@fabiennemitchell2371]

As usual, James OB name calling in a most morally repugnant matter.

[@dameonwalker8994]

Accurate descriptions are not 'morally repugnant'. Consult a dictionary.

[@roberthornbrook8374]

Farage is the best politician out there Let’s all take a Gamble on him I hope and pray reform win the red wall he is spot on Farage get out and vote reform 4th July

[@AnthonyNickson-r3t]

james' counting is awful

[@deadcert]

biggest count there is

[@DylRicho]

Farage.

[@kimhaas7586]

Physician Assistants are very common in the US. They usually have a substantial medical education. Somewhere between a registered nurse and doctor. I like them. They’re very competent and capable of doing routine procedures and prescribe medications. I think they need to consult with a doctor on the medication. As for doctors being better qualified, the US is chock full of women diagnosed with advanced cancer after they’ve been to half a dozen general practitioners and specialists who told them their pain/bleeding/shortness of breath is all in their heads. I’m going to guess that PAs are more likely to actually listen to their patients. So, I wouldn’t worry too much about PAs as long as your clinic tells you who you’re seeing in advance and asks if that’s ok.

[@BenJ2020]

I find james repugnant, so far up himself, slways thinks hes right typical lefty!

[@ArtyFactual_Intelligence]

As ungrammatical as it is laughable.

[@BenJ2020]

@@ArtyFactual_Intelligence 😆 calm down, I always find it so funny that those on the left think they can win over people by insulting them. Did the Brexit vote not teach you anything?

[@Novella47]

​@@BenJ2020The left are more neo liberalism now. Look at the posters on here - it's like reality has been thrown out the window similar to California.

[@craigallday1236]

Yawn

[@FredGreenGB]

Is anyone going to question if in fact Boris and Nigel are correct though ? Despite the handbags at dawn are they correct ?

[@FredGreenGB]

@DARRENKAIRNS-fv7yl this is what I do not understand. The statement made by both men isn't far off the mark but instead of debating this we are here laboriously comparing who's more repugnant ! What if they are right ! Isn't this how we stop wars by understand the problem . Who cares about political personality traits when lives are being destroyed. I think Michael Henderson is near the mark by criticising O'brien stating in his opinion that James is a thundering sanctimonious bore.

[@abhirao8582]

Please talk about Starmer's transphobia.

[@englishstark6100]

I ❤️J K Rowling

[@paramotorhead]

He doesn’t really care. He just wants the votes of the red wall back.

[@Alex.The.Lionnnnn]

When their powers combine, they are captain planet!

[@euLIRIC]

Why is James O'Brien talking like a clown about very serious topics like the US - Russia proxy war in Ukraine when much brighter and more informed specialist on the topic have already explained it ?

[@deadcert]

he,s desperate and has nothing on nigel, better be careful one wrong move and farage will sue him into oblivion

[@DrVictorVasconcelos]

Any recommendations for French/German news channels?

[@chrisround941]

To answer which one is most repugnant, the answer is resoundingly JAMES O’BRIEN

[@joescott54]

Easy, that would be O'boring...

[@bt-vp3vk]

Love farage... vote reform..we need to be freed from muslim rule

[@mattwilliams7454]

Physician associate idea: have them be more specialized. So yes they have less training overall than a Physician but they have specialized training in some subject which is equivalent to a Physician in that subject only

[@sabinkamal]

That’s not true. They are not medically trained and their course doesn’t meet the standards of GMC.

[@mattwilliams7454]

@@sabinkamal I'm suggesting it as an idea for their training. I haven't said that's how they're currently trained.

[@akhan1892]

Why should they have specialised training instead of the doctor who has done all the work/exams/interviews/gruelling shifts/rotational training to get those opportunities. Example gastroenterology registrar doctors are coming in on their days off so they can get endoscopy cases signed off, however a PA in Birmingham had a dedicated twice per week endoscopy list unsupervised on their timetable (remember PAs are not independent practitioners). This means the next generation of consultants will be less trained. How is this fair ?? No one wants this, but money talks i guess.

[@akhan1892]

Just look at any of the competition ratios for doctors specialty training. Hundreds/thousands of doctors are being denied entry to competitive specialties yet a PA who has done 1/5th of the training and none of the postgraduate specialty exams is being hired in specialist jobs instead. There are plenty of doctors applying but they haven’t increased the number or training slots and instead hiring PAs cos it’s cheaper. It’s absolutely farcical!

[@mattwilliams7454]

@akhan1892 definitely there are financial considerations that should be mitigated at least a bit. It doesn't sound like the current system is helping to alleviate waiting times anyway.

[@deanives3338]

Never mentions Assange 😢 Establishment Tool.

[@billysastard8779]

I do not understand how is Jullian connected to UK general election or Farage vs. Johnson hissy fits? Elaborate that tought please.

[@stephenhill545]

The guy who hacked government websites and private mail accounts you mean?

[@stevemills2941]

O'brien is repugnant. Vote Reform

[@TW-dv1im]

Aw bless you

[@vercoda9997]

Shame on you.

[@RobSmall-p2w]

Many adult learning courses are funded mate, perhaps you should have a gander?

[@stevemills2941]

@@RobSmall-p2w you could take one too. Maybe biology

[@joeduffy3309]

@@RobSmall-p2w even adult learning courses require a minimum level of education and intelligence, sadly qualities lacking in reform voters

[@lewisshaun1]

Is Kier starmer the answer though?

[@ArtyFactual_Intelligence]

Clearly not.

[@stephenhill545]

I just want the corruption to end, and a government which will try to develop the country to be honest.

[@peteradams408]

You are O'BRIEN

[@markwindsor2537]

5:20 In return for Russia/USSR withdrawing 400,000 troops from East Germany James Baker, Ronald Reagan's Secretary of State promised Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would not expand one inch East of the newly reunited Germany's border. The Americans who basically own NATO subsequently broke the promise. NATO has marched 1000km Eastward with 12 formerly Eastern bloc states, and formerly neutral states joining the 'club.' The USSR which was our ally in WW2 lost upward of 20 million of its citizens fighting the Germans, doing the Lions share of vainquishing the Nazis after they invaded the Russian border. Russia naturally has great sensitivity about its borders. The killing of 500,000 Ukrainians and 250,000 Russians does not serve the interests of either of these neighbouring countries. But it does serve the interests of the USA which sees it as a great investment for the American Military Industrial Congressional Complex. Ordinary Ukrainian people are the victims of a massive and deathly hoax perpetrated by the USA and that element of the Ukrainian extreme right wing, the Nazis who have made President Zelensky their puppet. It should be remembered that Zelensky was elected on a peace ticket, and that it was Boris Johnson who dissuaded Zelenski from making peace with the Russians. People need to look into the history of this conflict more deeply to recognise the clandestine workings of the CIA, which in statistical terms are certainly more deadly than what Mr Putin has to offer. Lets face it, the USA has 800 military bases all over the world, not Russia. The USA has toppled far more democratically elected governments than Russia or China. It purports to defend democracy while destroying it. I dont like Vladimir Putin or Nigel Farage, but James O'Brien's criticism of the latter on the matter of why Russia invaded Ukraine is ideological (an 'establishment' line), not factual. NATO countries whether they like to admit it or not, helped precipitate this war. There's a ring of NATO nuclear capable missile bases in Europe all pointing at Russia. Now what would happen if there was a ring of Chinese/Russian missile bases pointing at the USA from Mexico, Canada, and let's say Cuba.....?

[@paramotorhead]

Politicians tell lies, try to keep up.

[@ac-ss8ln]

Ah so this is the far left echo chamber

[@Novella47]

Haha Yes. James ' I live in a white neighborhood but am pro immigration ' O' Brien. Classic champagne socialist. Maybe he should make those comments after a few years in Bradford.

[@simoncox9689]

@@Novella47 what you know about him? also his view are not as simple as saying he is pro immigration an he is not a socialist an has attacked socialist MPs like JC..so get it right

[@karlwilson-aka-thejoiner2816]

U are wrong m8 on Russia

[@chrisfell5109]

How can people not see the EU expanding further east and ukraine flirting with EU membership wouldnt antagonise russia. I see absolutely no difference with russian missiles being kept in cuba. In this instance Farage is 100% correct.

[@paramotorhead]

Why should Russia be threatened by a political and economic union? If Russia wasn’t so corrupt, it could and should have joined the EU. Then the whole picture would have changed. But, Vladimir decided he was going to be a dictator and run Russia for him and his powerful allies to profit from the subjugation of its population, whilst also seeking to expand its borders and influence. Russia has done exactly the same over a similar timeframe with Afghanistan, Georgia, Belorussia etc. Nations join alliances to increase their security from a perceived threat sometimes and the Ukrainians know the Russians better than us. Did we force the new additions to NATO to join or was it in their interest defensively? Think about it.