Who Is the Most Lawful God in D&D?

Lawful gods in D&D embody order. They promote stability, regulation, discipline, and tradition. At their best, they enable mortals to live in structured, peaceful societies. At their worst, they cause stifling rigidity and stagnation. The Forgotten Realms provides us a wealth of gods to examine, and those that have lawful alignments as interesting to examine as any other.
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-Chapters-
0:00 Law
2:41 Lawful Creatures and Deities
4:32 Tyr
6:52 Ilmater, Bahamut, Moradin
9:01 Bane
11:34 Kelemvor
14:34 Helm
18:06 Azuth
20:21 Mystra
23:28 Ultrahigh Magic in D&D
26:23 Monstrous Heroes
27:06 Which God Is the Most Lawful?
29:42 Words from the Bard
#dungeonsanddragons #dndlore #dnd

[@esperthebard]

Order Monstrous Heroes: monstrous-heroes-5e-monster-classes.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders Or download the free sample pdf: www.patreon.com/posts/monstrous-heroes-77535876 About Primus: There are references to Primus here and there, but compared to the gods, he is not as much of a major entity. I'm not convinced he's actually a god. I'm not even sure he's completely a person, as he is a machine. In fact, he's not even a "he", but an "it" - a supreme clockwork, an embodiment of mechanical order. I should have mentioned Primus in the video though.

[@MawsParasite2]

Mystra getting split and shattered into numerous gods because of the stress of keeping track of each school of magic would be rather interesting.

[@chaosfire4675]

To your rant about Mystra, I would simply like to add that she does NOT, in fact, manage magic in the entire D&D multiverse. She is a Forgotten Realms specific God. There are plenty of other God of magic out there, like the three moons of Dragonlance, for example.

[@NukeClock]

That hiddennotsohidden jab at the totallynotmarketingcentred hyperfantasication of the last 10 years rang hard enough to make my spine vibrate.

[@Cory2000]

Mystra is Neutral Good in 3, 3.5 and 5 ed. The first Mystra, not Midnight, was Lawful Neutral. Mystryl was Chaotic Neutral. Although with 5ed version of Mystra is all versions which makes her Lawful Chaotic Good Neutral. Also in the lore, Mystra is dumping her power in a lot of places to stablize he power. Which is how she keeps resurrecting. Her choosen, Azuth, and other... including Weave anchors. People, places and things which help to hold and regulate the weave. Like, interesting enough, Volo which is why he keeps surviving.

[@HenriFaust]

It sounds like she's so invested in the game of whack-a-mole, that she can't even protect herself from harm.

[@Cory2000]

@@HenriFaust You have to remember, a God job (So to speak) is the support and protection of what they are a god of. In Mystra's case, magic and the weave which make it work in Faerun. Her being alive is seconday. I've heard things, forgetting where, but sometimes Mystra allows herself to be 'murdered' if that will protect the Weave. Which makes sense as with Karsus as the goddess of magic she would have known he was making such a spell. Heck, as a goddess of Creativity in Netheril at the time, she would likely know everything being created. Her death in the Avatar Crisis could be seen similar as she was more interesting in telling Ao who stole the Tablets so she can get back to stablizing magic. Which was her purpose as a God. Her way of deaiing with the issue of Weave is back up plans. Blueflame items, sharing power, etc. To put it similar, to Mystra, her life isn't as important as making sure magic (which in the realms is supervised by a deity) continues even if she doesn't.

[@HenriFaust]

@@Cory2000 " In Mystra's case, magic and the weave which make it work in Faerun. Her being alive is seconday." This is absolutely backwards thinking. If your duty is to protect something, then your first priority is to be present where you're needed to protect that thing. Anything else is neglecting that duty.

[@Cory2000]

@@HenriFaust The gods are mad. Even Mystra pointed this out to Adon, her high priest in one of the Cyric novels. Taking him to an asylum filled with people driven mad by magic to point out patients similar to the gods. But the novel also points out that it is also a case of gods being alien to a human mind set. Gods are basically ideas with personalities. There is a scene in the novel where Mystra and Oghma see a meeting of the gods form the view point of other gods. Which was a bit trippy. But at the end of the day, for gods, it is the ideas which matter at the end of the day. Not so much the personalities, which can be changed. By the their worshippers for examples.

[@HenriFaust]

@@Cory2000 I see you're a budding Athar.

[@Rells2coolpeoplehavebadtastes.]

Not going to lie I don't get the complaint about the dnd being too magical. Cuz like that's nothing new. Wasn't 3e the edition where casters got acces to 10th, 11th, 12th level spells that were world altering? And who could forget the Book of 9 Swords that basically gave warriors magic. Also the let's not forget that Spelljamer is a thing and you can use that add on in any setting.

[@akito9671]

As a Helm loyalist, this pleases me 🛡

[@RachDarastric2]

True order comes not from the removal of chaos, but from giving it a time and place.

[@purplehaze2358]

"but his followers instead see him as a brave father figure - a paternal god constantly striving to create a stable family-like community despite the many flaws of mortals." Is- Is Tyr an analog for the Father?

[@cleaver3519]

my number one is primus. His whole existance is law. he judges the gods accordance to laws of the universe. He Must exist and his plane consists of clock work. he has sacrificed himself for law too and was replaced but his existance is so rigid that it forced orcus to be more lawful until he was replaced.

[@joydjinn8692]

Primus is the obvious choice until you realize that he's not a god. Just a being with god-like power. It very nitpicky but it enough to unqualify him form this video.

[@cleaver3519]

@@joydjinn8692 that is partially true but he is considered a deity in his own realm which is why i pick him. i do see why others wouldn't though. he must have some other powers too as why would any other diety respect his rulings otherwise, especially asmodeus.

[@joydjinn8692]

@@cleaver3519 He's pretty much in the same category as the Lady of Pain. Beings so powerful even the gods fear/respect them.

[@cleaver3519]

@@joydjinn8692 that's where the issue lies, what is a god or deity? Do they need to be worshipped or have worshippers then what about Ao. Do they need followers? Then the Archdukes and demons count. In my definition, a deity or god is an entity of cosmic importance. Both the lady of pain and Primus count, reality cant exist without them as it stands.

[@joydjinn8692]

@@cleaver3519 From what I understand, for someone to become a deity, he/she need to have a certain amount of worshipers. The Lady of Pain have no worshipers. Anyone even attempting to worship her is struck by intense pain. She does not want to be worshiped and she hate the gods. I don't have a must information on Primus but he created pretty much everything in Mechanus, including the modrons. I don't think the modrons "worship" Primus. They are simply his creation and obey him like machines.

[@JaxWylds]

Mystra overseeing all magic all the time everywhere is not so unimaginable. Do you consciously control all cells in your body? And yet your body is still a regulated system of complex perfection.

[@esperthebard]

That analogy doesn't fit. It's not like your body regulating its own organic functions. It would be like you regulating the thoughts of all beings across an infinite number of universes.

[@JaxWylds]

@@esperthebard You know what it's like to be a goddess of magic better than i do, apparently.

[@larslnskog7580]

Heh, the body-analogy makes more sense considering the vast majority of beings are not users of magic. Sure, magic is everywhere, but from my perhaps wildly deluded understanding of most published settings most people are just "normal" humans, elfs, dwarfs, orcs or whatnots that are not users of the weave. Player heroes and your Elminsters and Symbuls are 1 in millions.

[@Rells2coolpeoplehavebadtastes.]

@@esperthebard Well if we go by Plane scape gods seem to be made of ALL the souls and minds of their followers they ever had. Imagine millions, billions and trillions of minds in one body. Also there is a supliment in 2e, I think it's called gods and demigods, in there it talks about the powers of the gods and one of it is multitasking. Demigods can do 2 tasks at the same time, Lesser Deities 5, Intremediate Deities 10 I think and Higher ones and infinite amount. And Mystra is a higher one. Another thing I want to add is that Mystra exists only in FR and nowhere else so she doesn't really take care of magic in all of the dnd worlds.

[@agilemonk6305]

I do appreciate the way you almost “sing” these stories and narration within your videos. You truly are Esper the Bard, and why I support your kickstarter projects. ❤

[@jediprotector216]

Kelemvor is following the tenets of life as the Death and Grave Domains are considered a Neutral aspect of life. In other systems, Undeath is considered a Chaotic disturbance of Life itself.

[@morrigankasa570]

Neutrality is also a powerful force in D&D!!! Additionally, you are forgetting about "Wild Magic Barbarian" which is a Magical Sub-Class of Barbarian.

[@logisticsnerd9699]

Awesome! Instant like! Your content is top notch bro!

[@VladTepes151]

Oh yeah. Helm's stoic commitment to his duty is unbreakable and his will is iron clad. To me, he's also one of the most bad ass and admirable gods.

[@morrigankasa570]

I'd rather follow The Raven Queen or Tharmekhul or Myrkul or Garagos or Stronmaus or Corellon, before I'd follow Helm!!!

[@StyleshStorm]

11:25 This is actually eeriely accurate in reality. Especially if it's anything political. I don't care if you're right or left. Do not force your ideals on me because both sides have good people and extreme nut cases and I don't want any of it.

[@Rells2coolpeoplehavebadtastes.]

True. If you want to convince someone of something you have to listen to them first and their side of the story. Only through mutual understanding can we find peace with each other.

[@esperthebard]

Well said. If an idea requires force or lies in order to be implemented, it's a bad idea.

[@purplehaze2358]

"One of the surest ways to get somebody to rebel against you and to fight back against you is to try to force your ideas upon them." I'm not so sure about that one Esper. History's quite unfortunately rife with examples of ideological oppression triumphing - the very concept of heresy itself, regardless of what faith employs it, is a pretty big example of institutionally forcing one's ideas onto others without much resistance.

[@animefan3794]

Have not watched yet. Giving my prediction as primus, the literal Lord of the clockwork nirvana of Mechanus. I’ve heard it said that mortals cannot hear his voice and survive. Because his words are the binary code that creates whole universes when gathered in their brains.

[@pepperino-hotterino]

You forgot Primus and he is imo the most lawfull god. Also just because there are more caster classes than martial classes doesnt mean that most inhabitants of Toril can therefore use magic. According to Ed Greenwood only 10-15% of the popullation can (including cleric, wizards, paladins, sorcerer, warlocks ....). Still gave you a like for the amazing video tho.

[@AdrydYT]

I'm not sure you can consider Primus a god. He's simply a being that is natural from his plane. He is lawful neutral incarnate, as much as demon lords are natural from the Abyss and chaotic evil incarnate. None of them has the spark of divinity, with a few exceptions (coughLolthcough).

[@Rells2coolpeoplehavebadtastes.]

Yeah and most of those people prob know only minor spells for house work and such.

[@pepperino-hotterino]

@@AdrydYT you are correct on that. Primus seems not to be a god.

[@esperthebard]

I considered Primus, as he is an embodiment of absolute clockwork law. But I'm not convinced he's actually a god. I probably should have mentioned him though.

[@Nemo12417]

From Eberron, either Aureon or the Path of Inspiration religion in Riedra.

[@jacopoarmini7889]

I like to think that distinctions like law and chaos are not something strictly universal, but a matter of factions. In my D&D universe the "faction of law" is literally a bunch of gods and entities that grouped together and called themselves "the Law", with everyone else not complying with them being painted as chaotic dissidents. Angels, devils and most lawful gods are part of this universal faction. Demons and monsters do not care about definitions, while more neutral beings like fairies do not appreciate the overreach of this cosmic lobby.

[@XaryLoon]

I read Lawful Good and was surprise when you mentioned Bane :D

[@ernestcline2868]

If we go by just the video's title rather than its focus upon the Forgotten Realms, the most Lawful god of D&D is Pholtus. Greyhawk lives!

[@jamcalx]

Mystra, the overworked magical accountant!

[@HiopX]

Oh, Esper, I have the bell on and youtube still forgets to push some notifications

[@raytheerudite5252]

You can also change it from personalized into All for the bell.

[@jamesknapp64]

Great video

[@truehalixon6356]

Unfortunate that Hoar/Assuran is not mentioned. I have seen him as one of the most strictly law focused gods, his portfolios being revenge, retribution, poetic justice and to repay evil with evil and good with good

[@EpicRenegade777]

Helm is so lawful he was the only god not cast down during the spellplague as Ao knew he wouldnt have fucked anything up

[@simonmoody8400]

Siamorphe is worth a small mention I think. Her 'Rightful Rule of Nobility' stands out as a pretty dogmatic lawful tenant. Though, her rather limited geographic area of worship and influence pretty much kneecaps her from being a real contender. Jergal, however, if anything is even more of a poster child for lawful than maybe Kelemvor, partly because the latte was once mortal, while Jergal wasn't. Lastly (and imho most fun) is Hoar. A god I've always had a soft spot for. That he sort of takes pleasure in carrying out his 'duties' could be seen either as a negative (he's not doing what he does just because it's his role/job/duty, but cos it's fun as well. Or, on the flipside, if your lawful duty is something that also satisfies, you, even makes you smile, doesn't that show you a really into it? I think 'poetic justice' is by definition less defined than those of Helm or Kelemvor. It has a sort of artistic aspect. Which I think pushes Hoar away from the top spot. But, I think he is the most 'happily' lawful god, which is worthy of note at least I think. Mystra shouldn't be in contention. She does lean significantly (if not moreso) towards good. Her many Chosen are all 'dogooders' and she is one of the patrons of the Harpers. By assosiation that somewhat knobbles Azuth as well, plus his very close friendship with her has implications for him acting from personal feelings rather than 'what is required', or at least, that he will have to guard against such, where there is no sign of the same issue witht he likes of Helm or Kelemvor, (or Hoar).

[@misterbrady100]

Before watching this video, I would have said Kelemvor. This is a great example of how subjective and malleable D&D can be. Also, yes the weave needs a retcon for sure.

[@dave-bulletrider]

Hehe, Morena Baccarin as Mystara would be a nice choice for an actress. Probably also for a a goddess of youth as she seems to never age.

[@garou12]

doesnt mystra not having domains in 4e have to do w the fact she was dead during that period?

[@ClarkyClark]

Hell yeah. Helm is one of my favorite gods.

[@Javier-rm6ql]

If anyone want to read something "serious" about lawful neutrals then Curtis Yarvin has this article were he says that the only truly good alignment is lawful neutral and all other alignments specially chaotic ones are evil. Look for: WHAT IF THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS CHAOTIC GOOD?

[@efraim3364]

Kelemvor seems a lot like Morr in Warhammer Fantasy

[@E3Zen]

21:01 I mean, Morena Baccarin does look godly

[@ramuk1933]

Um... what about Primus, the literal manifestation of Law?

[@user-om1pp5qe5z]

Torm n Tyr should merge together for a more rounded god

[@martinnielsen7746]

Primus??? Have you overlooked Primus? I also think you forgot to mention Asmodeus who snuk into mount celestial and uses the law, won a trial about it against other gods, judged by Primus. He bends it but still follow it, he might be the best to use the Law so he should be mentioned Esper But i still like many of your videos and this 💪🏻

[@esperthebard]

See the pinned comment.

[@martinnielsen7746]

@@esperthebard yeah it's up for interpretation if he is defined as a good, I agree 👌🏻 Still no mention about Asmo which would have been awesome to see and he has so much lore and drama connected to him which would have made people more interested in him, and that would have reflected back on the vid, imo 😉👌🏻 Still great job ✌🏻

[@martinnielsen7746]

I actually don't see Asmo so evil again and more like necessary evil in the way his lore is discrbing him which is a little fascinating, that they have given him because he is THE Devil (don't misunderstand me they way he does it is evil) but it is maybe one of his greatest schemes? It's fun to think about in that way and a clever way to present it, showing his cleverness and position, that he is needed to hold the demons en check

[@ShineDark]

Did Primus get mentioned in this video?

[@yamatohekatsue9143]

I hate to disagree with you but primemus from the clockwork Nirvana of Mecanus. He is the epitome of law every single thing happens like clockwork from the monitoring of the plains to the modron march. His plain of existence is the most lawful plane and it revolves around him and his clockwork organization

[@esperthebard]

See the pinned comment.

[@redcapetimetraveler7688]

Sure Bane enbodies the perfect dictator ... however in his way of ruling by fear... he creates his own possible downfall if his followers met someone capable to give them hope of a better way... to perfectly rule by terror your slaves/followers have to be so affraid of you that they will always refuse to betray you to be freed from fear... that must be a full-time job to scare away any hope from your disciples'minds.

[@malcolmt7883]

So, you're saying that the Bone Castle of Doom is on the market?

[@esperthebard]

It's a real fixer upper.

[@christianbolze2441]

Whats up with Lathander?

[@CharlieThunder24]

Helm reminds me of robocop

[@tavariswilson3361]

Wild magic barbarian

[@Carcerian]

No love for Primus, The Lawful Neutral Clockwork God of Mechanus? Or Asmodeus, the Champion and Defender of Law against the demon hordes of Chaos? No Moradin the Soulforger? For Shame. SHAME!

[@Rells2coolpeoplehavebadtastes.]

Asmodeus a defender? That's not wrong....right either. Half of that reputation if not most of it is just propaganda made up by him.

[@esperthebard]

See the pinned comment.

[@miguelroca5098]

Mystra being anything but True Neutral never made sense to me. She cares only about magic, regardless of the user's alignment or intentions. She even forbid her clerics and champions from stopping an evil dracolich's (Daurgothoth) plan to create a race of living dracoliches that could destroy Faerûn. Why? Because is really good at magic and she wants to see what he does next.

[@TheOGSpartanNinja]

No Primus?

[@esperthebard]

See the pinned comment.

[@HiopX]

How does Primus, Lord of Mechanus the plane of law not count as a lawful god?

[@esperthebard]

There are references to Primus here and there, but not actually much information about he himself. I'm not convinced he's actually a god. Actually I think Primus should he referred to as it, as it's not exactly a person, but rather a supreme clockwork, an embodiment of mechanical order.

[@VikingBerzerker85]

Not even a mention of Primus? Literally the God of Law, made of pure lawful energy? Lol ok

[@esperthebard]

See the pinned comment.

[@Rells2coolpeoplehavebadtastes.]

First!

[@IdiotinGlans]

I was liking this video until you found a way to put in a whiny rant about your nostalgia.