Who's faster? Explained and Simulated - Horsepower vs Torque

[@d4a]

Become a Tuning Pro: hpcdmy.co/dr4a Support the channel by shopping through this link: amzn.to/3RIqU0u Motivation: kzbin.info/door/t3YSIPcvJsYbwGCDLNiIKA Stem engine model: amzn.to/3Y5iZLv 1-2-3 count with Car parts: amzn.to/3jxP7Z6 Patreon: www.patreon.com/d4a

[@trumanhw]

The absolute BEST content. Many (myself included) intuit that area under the curve is a more useful comparative... S'il vous plait, an explanation of why (if it's not) area-under-curve isn't the best metric... Of course, I'd've enjoyed your comparative of engines in which A. has 100 lb-ft from 2,500 to 5,252 ... and B. has 50 lb-ft from 2,500 thru 10,504. Though I assume I'm wrong (as I lack acumen), it 'feels' like HP is the ability to preserve torque long enough to do useful work. Eg, if torque quickly rose to 100 lb ft at 2,500 rpm yet, dropped to 50 by 3,000, you'd have very little 'time' from which to accelerate with those "100 torques." Conversely, if you merely retain those 100 lb ft from 2,500 through 5,252 rpm, you have a much longer period of time from which to use to multiplied torque of each gear. Then, in a slightly germane topic of understanding engines ... I've always wanted to ask someone if power is function of the temperature delta between intake and exhaust. As in, the avg temperature of the mixture just prior to ignition vs the peak avg temperature during combustion. It seems so obvious as to be all but tautological. But without asking someone who knows more than I, I can't know if I'm overlooking something. My reasoning is that the temperature delta is a synonym for the pressure delta. Thanks to anyone willing to critique this thought.

[@xXilisminusXx]

This man always sounds like he's recording at 1am and trying not to wake up his roommates

[@DavidArenivas-cx3sx]

It’s annoying but his content is good

[@MrCxiong116]

He has a day job as well so videos are made at night.

[@PFinkoloTL87]

Convenient, because I'm watchin at 1 am.

[@erdem.911]

I just came to write this 😂 Feels like the children are sleeping next door and he doesn't want to wake them up 😂😂😂

[@zdenekkindl2778]

It does’t matter how he speaks but what he’s saying…!

[@636theofthebeast8]

Something that wasn't considered : if you make a lot of horsepower at high rpm, you can use shorter gearing to have higher wheel torque and still benefit from the high hp figure.

[@nathanaelcole8466]

Especially when you have movie car transmissions with at least 15 gears 🤣. He does a great job with basic concepts and then opens your eyes to the many many factors affecting actual performance in the seemingly simple sport of drag racing. That simulator he was using was great! I created one in school that had about 20 variables to predict a 1/4 mile run of an actual car and to see how close you could get to the actual run. It was fun and opened our eyes to how complex it truly is.

[@theclamhammer4447]

He literally added a transmission into the equation and thus determined torque bias being too overwhelming. Even added in a final drive and better tire factor. That’s the point of the whole video… adding variable factors to suit you ho/tq numbers completely change the results of the static output of X engine.

[@bluestripes1]

should have tested 10 speed or 8 speed or CVT@@theclamhammer4447

[@erikziak1249]

And how many gears would you need?

[@ldub0775]

@@erikziak1249 at least one

[@christophermullins7163]

The number of car guys i have heard misspeaking about this subject is mindblowing. Its incredibly simple really. HP is total power output and torque is a piece of the equation to make total power. Torque by itself is never enough information to determin how fast a certain vehicle can go(or accelerate) but HP IS enough information to determin how fast a vehicle can go(or accelerate). If you know what rpm this HP is generated at, you sinply need to choose an appropriate gear ratio to utilize that power effectively. HP is the measurement of all things "go fast" while torque is but a small specifc conponant of that total HP

[@Full_Deflection]

If you know the RPM and torque, you know the HP, so your statement stands for both.

[@squirrel6687]

Huhn? This was solved by Lawlor many many years ago. Check out his book. It is a simple gem.

[@andrea-qo8ys]

@@squirrel6687book name?

[@JimLBon]

This is a terrible explanation. Just watch the video.

[@jbaker8871]

You are wrong , obviously don’t understand torque wich is work hp which is time the work is done in. Light car sure takes no torque to move it and lots of hp can make it move. Heavy vehicle you need gears to optimize work or torque if your making little torque. Average power between torque and hp is what wins races. That’s why fuel injection often making less peak power than carbs will run quicker with less HP.

[@renuissance]

easily the best automotive science channel on youtube. your ability to efficiently breakdown concepts with effective examples is so helpful to anyone learning about automotive technology.

[@johnmcdonnell81]

100% 👍

[@owaisahmed1109]

KZbin ???? Probably the entire Internet at this point mate You want to learn every single detail about a car and I mean every single thing you can think of a cars performance This is your go to guy

[@aaronklein1490]

Have to warn Jason about this guy huh

[@TrojanLube69]

@@owaisahmed1109engineering explained also makes great engineering videos on vehicles.

[@cameronlotter1392]

​@@owaisahmed1109Engineering Explained is way better

[@MrTL3wis]

I'm a race engineer. It's a little different now, but we used to change intake trumpets and exhaust lengths to change the power curve and we had about 40 ratios to choose from (5 speed gearbox) to optimize the rev band. The goal is to achieve the highest average engine power per lap, or greatest fuel consumption (a good surrogate), which usually means you're the fastest.

[@MrHaggyy]

Uh setting up a car-track-driver combination is a neat science and to some degree a art. How much speed can you carry? How much power do we have? How do we scale RPM vs torque over the gears? Can we utilise some extra topspeed with a slipstream?

[@danielsteward5090]

I used to race Karts in my teens and pre teens. I used to change expansion chamber sizes and head tube length (depending on what the class rules allowed.) To get a little more torque in the low to mid rpm range.(It was easier than changing gearing most of the time.

[@ClosestNearUtopia]

Its a little different now?🧐

[@RetirededKat]

Handling beats speed unless you're on a drag strip or going in circus I mean circles I mean ovals.

[@polar_inertia]

​@@ClosestNearUtopiahey! no emoji here!

[@JonathanStYves]

Love the analogy of Torque = damage per hit, HP = DPS. A lot of people that are knowledgeable with cars will keep parroting that "torque = acceleration and power = top speed". Engine performance is 100% determined by power in the power band. People are under the impression that low torque is unresponsive but that's because casual drivers avoid the sound of high RPM.

[@weekendmagus9994]

That’s what I keep telling people. They don’t let the RPM go high enough for the engine to pay off and then they say their car is too weak.

[@esrmafia]

Of course people are trying to save gas, not red line at every 🚦. In the other hand Automatic transmission will do that if you floor it. A civic for example casual acceleration it will make it rev high

[@pyropulseIXXI]

The analogy is HP is damage per minute, not dps

[@intensedabberoniJG]

@@pyropulseIXXI Gamers say dps to refer to total damage in a lot of situations, and while it does come off as incorrect in the way you present it, the analogy makes sense if you play games that have damage scaling and sweaty players.

[@michalbures859]

But sometimes the engine don't like it in case of longevity...that need to be revved ​usually means more abuse. But high torque car you can operare calmly in low RPM and be as fast maybe even faster and no engine wear happens.@@weekendmagus9994

[@damiansmith5294]

The punches explanation is actually awesome, as it helps describe how transmissions work. The horsepower you put in to the transmission is the same as the horsepower you get out, so the same damage per second. But in first gear, you do less frequent but more powerful punches. In higher gears your damage is reduced but your attack speed is increased! Same damage output, different speed and torque. Thank you so much!

[@damiansmith5294]

And I forgot what I wanted to add in the first place! One of the most extreme examples of a high RPM low torque engine would be the rotary. To make up for this, they have gears that are optimal for extreme RPM use. Gearing makes a massive difference for effective DPS!

[@AdamAdamski69]

reminds me of a guy who made a video about cooking a chicken by slaping it 😂

[@AndrewB383]

​@@damiansmith5294or Ducati motorcycles, with desmodromic valves, revving to absolutely insane rpms, but making pretty blah torque, pure attack speed stacking strategy

[@AndrewB383]

​@@AdamAdamski69that was a great experiment, dumb as it was, it was awesome

[@JasonLuther1]

​@@AdamAdamski69haha Rpg style

[@breeminator]

The reason the high torque car is faster in some of the scenarios is because it actually has more horsepower than the high horsepower car at the rpms the cars are being forced to operate in. At 2500rpm the high horsepower car only has half the horsepower of the high torque car (because it has half the torque at the same rpm).

[@heldermonteiro2718]

there is no such thing as a car with higher hp than torque

[@TheCarBro]

@@heldermonteiro2718what? I have a 900 whp sti but with only 600 torque lol. You don’t know what you’re talking about

[@heldermonteiro2718]

@@TheCarBro that's stupid

[@firstielasty1162]

..Any engine with a power peak at an rpm higher than 5252 will generally have more hp than torque. It would be possible to make an engine with a large torque peak below 5252 rpm, and a peak hp that is a lower number, but above 5252 rpm. But weird. Mathematically possible...I can't think of any, though. It is true that ANY engine with a power peak at lower than 5252 rpm will always have a higher torque than that power, whatever it is.

[@GT86Owner]

area under the curve essentially. Through the gears, two otherwise identical cars, the car with the highest area under the torque curve will be the fastest

[@Macintoshiba]

Annoying, how many people are picking on him for speaking quietly. Im glad that for once a KZbinr isnt deleting my eardrums when I watch their content. Id rather have to turn up my volume than turn it down....

[@Double-X2-Points]

Imagine he was screaming the entire time, lol

[@Naginc]

But that's stupid..that would mean you just made a complaint about yourself, to yourself, which is a violation...in other words, don't criticize Ytubers, just turn your volume down.

[@Macintoshiba]

@@Naginc Interesting Take. However, when the rest of the content I consume is Tolerable at the same audio levels, I reserve my right to complain.

[@APO65687]

Refreshing to hear someone talk about this who actually understands that power and torque are not independent of each other, but in fact fundamental to each other. So many people just don’t understand it, and also don’t grasp the fact that a peak number is only telling a fraction of the story. Good work.

[@1fast72nova]

This video is rubbish and only touches on reality

[@MastaSquidge]

While true, you can gear to maximize the torque at the wheels. You can't gear in more power. Edited because I stated it goofy the first time.

[@1fast72nova]

@@MastaSquidge you gear around peak HP for maximum acceleration

[@MastaSquidge]

@@1fast72nova yeah that's what I meant. Phrased it wrong. You can gear however you need to to get whatever torque you need from the power available.

[@BigUriel]

@@MastaSquidgeExactly. Torque you can multiply however you want, like Archimedes (supposedly) said give me a firm place to stand and a lever and I can move the Earth. A hamster running on a wheel can move a truck if you give it enough torque multiplication. Power is the limiting factor, your engine can only make so much of it. This is pretty basic Physics...but most people don't know basic Physics.

[@Mike-hl4mg]

i love how calm you are and how you talk with a low voice, it is soothing to watch

[@ivelintsanev9380]

You’ve explained something that I have been wondering in a long time in just 14 minutes perfectly for newbies, kudos to you sir!

[@mociczyczki]

yhm but than you setup drag race between brough superior ss100 75 nm/45 hp vs bsa goldstar 650 55 nm /45 hp vs honda cb 500 pc26 47 nm/57 hp vs kawasaki zx4 rr 40 nm/75 hp let assume if something here have not perfect gearing in regard to its peak power width than we give this bike this perfect gearing for 1/4 mille also we compensate diffrenc in weight be additional weight on lighter bike and that zx4 rr we take off fairing for also make its drag worse the same as other 3 bike here naked 👌🏻 and what happen ? 😁👌🏻👉🏻 ss100 and goldstar cross finish line basically in the same time around 14,2 sec on1/4 mille honda cb 500 cross finish line in 13,2 sec with around 40-45 metres advantage and zx4 r without fairing cross finish line in 12,2 sec with 80-90 metres advantage against ss100 and gold star 650 and 40-50 metres advantage against cb 500 👌🏻😎 so yea wait 🤔 bike with bigest /highest crank engine torque cross finish line last and bike with lowest smalleelst crank ngine torque first? 🥴 welll YEP egzacly 👌🏻😎 the placement was beacuse of power diffrencesss not beacuse of torque diffrencesss and hess video is well dont be lie 👉🏻just 💩 🤷🏻‍♂️☕️

[@DageLV]

his explanation is kinda confusing with the punches and stuff. Torque is how much force you can apply, not speed. instead of seeing it like a damage per hit, consider torque as armor penetration. You need good armor penetration and good damage to kill a monster with armor and health, but a monster with no armor but lots of health only needs high damage. On the other hand, a very well armored monster with low health will simply ignore your attempts if you have no armor and can not deliver your high damage. Real life example. Would you rather take an impact drill or a regular drill to defeat a bolt with lots of "rust" armor? Impact drill has a lot of torque, but low speed. But what if its a loose bolt? Aka has no rust armor. Big rigs in Europe have lots of torque, very little horsepower, because they need to defeat the "weight" armor quickly so they can quickly apply the "speed" damage while American trucks dont really care about the "weight" armor and rather flash their high "speed" damage, resulting in slow acceleration, but they get there eventually.

[@fra_trk]

I think a pretty good way of tackling the subject would be comparing two engines that make the same horsepower but at different RPMs (for example 700 HP @8000 RPM vs @2000 RPM); naturally the transmission ratio should be varied accordingly. Nice content as always :)

[@normalkid488]

if only there was an engine that made 700hp @2000 rpm...

[@NBSV1]

@@normalkid488Can get something like a 15L diesel to 700hp @ 2000rpm pretty easy.

[@kenanmutluturk8774]

In this example, both vehicles has same weight, aerodynamics and if gears similar to reality, the high RPM wins because of gearing. If we think unrealistic or in real life we had unlimited money, putting the RPM's about max HP for low RPM car with CVT or lightning fast DCT transmission, the low RPM same HP wins because the engine produces same hp much faster than high RPM engine. High RPM engine takes a time to reach high RPM. Also we need heavy weight both of cars or we need unrealistic traction wheel for minimum spining.

[@overstack7128]

@@normalkid488 some late WW2 aircraft engines exceeded 3000 hp @~2000rpm

[@arthurkairupan5228]

YES!! I was thinking the same while watching. 👊😎

[@onplay1471]

this video is liquid gold, thank you very much

[@VoyagerLife826]

Over thousands of videos of simar subjects over the years... this is the perfect and most definitive explanation of what torque and horsepower really mean. You sir are brilliant, keep at it! ❤

[@SlyNine]

Not really.

[@wurfyy]

@@SlyNine I think it does a far better job than any other video I've seen on this subject.

[@SlyNine]

​@@wurfyy no, because the transmission has to match the engine.

[@wurfyy]

@@SlyNine First off, why did you suddenly decide to reply to a year old comment? And secondly, this video isn't about engineering a car, it's about teaching the difference between power and torque.

[@vehementshortfuze4820]

Amazing video. I already knew this but I've never seen it illustrated in such a straightforward manner and really enjoyed it as always. The punching analogy is just genius. Would love to see a video on tires and grip, ie bigger tires, stretch vs bulge, lower profile with more unsprung weight vs smaller wheels with a higher tire profile. I must confess I feel like I know frighteningly little about which of the aforementioned factors/choices are best for performance for a car enthusiast.

[@KillJD]

There are a lot of car guys who never understood the relationship between torque and HP. I'm showing them this channel 😊

[@gregormonkey]

I second this tire idea! Knowing more about the impacts of tire pressure in various motorsports applications would also be fascinating (i.e. drag racing, rock crawling, rally, road racing, etc.)

[@humpelfrederik1597]

But why is he whispering

[@haseebmalik8075]

Thinking the same 😂😂

[@keastymatthew2407]

Alot of homosexuals do...

[@joshuaking5519]

Maybe he’s recently had a baby and it’s sleeping in the next room, who knows? Also who cares? The information still means the same thing regardless of how loud or quiet it is…

[@zackoparis7918]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@sanderromer6490]

You need better speakers

[@alvaroasecas]

Congratulations on how good you are at making topics easily understandable :)

[@MortonLuvz2drum]

Holy crap! It may be, but for some of us it is just common knowledge. I mean, the basic concept is. So, one of these engines is impossible? Yeah, I kinda figured that. That being the case, do I believe all of what is being explained here? Does he go on to explain gear ratios on an impossible car?

[@devandrasimanjuntak1646]

⁠@@MortonLuvz2drummate, only 1% of car enthusiast actually know how engines work. This video is for them. Don’t be a pushover just because you have a lot of knowledge.

[@miks564]

Actually, I didn’t find it as simple as it could be to explain torque and power. Power is always what matters. Power determines the work we can achieve. Be it how fast we can go, how hard we can accelerate or how much cargo we can transport. It’s always about power. Torque determines how many rpm’s are needed to get whatever power the engine produces. An high torque engine produces power with less rpm’s than a low torque one.

[@mikeportjogger1]

I've seen many explanations of torque and hp; I now finally truly understand it. Great explanation.

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

The punches explanation is a bit lame IMO, why, torque number actually gets nothing done, it does not tell you the rate at which work is being done. At 12:40 Torque is NOT about a single rotation, its simply the twisting (torque) force applied and tells nothing about how quickly work is being done.

[@constantinevu48]

You actually truly trust something you liked, but don't understand the torque and horsepower for sure 😅

[@eleanortoms4245]

Agreed!

[@GamezGuru1]

@@constantinevu48 this is the worst explanation I ever saw - why even bother making a youtube video on a topic you dont understand?

[@Domas64]

Nice explanation. What I like to use as an analogy is loading bricks into a truck. Torque is how many bricks you can lift at once, rpm is how many times per minute you can place bricks into truck. And horsepower is how fast you can load the truck as in bricks per minute. You either load slowly with big stacks or ninja it brick by brick or both for best results :D

[@cedricl.marquard6273]

My thought is always the following: Since HP is a unit of power, it denotes the amount if energy, transfered within any given time. And in the end that energy is tranferred to the car in the form of kinetic energy. Thus, if you engine has higher hp, it can feed more energy, into the car in the same time resulting in higher acceleration.

[@cedricl.marquard6273]

For example an engine with 10.000 lbs-ft if torque at 1 rpm will not nearly have as high power as an engine with 300 lbs-ft at 2.000 rpm. It will be unstoppable for sure, but if you anted really slow, unstoppale movement you could also gear the 2.000 rpm example to 1 rpm and have effective torque of 600.000 lbs-ft

[@PiOfficial]

Yea this is the easiest way to understand it. I don’t know why more people don’t use this. It’s just very basic physics that we all learned at school.

[@MicroageHD]

You are correct! As a physicist I can confirm you that this is actually the way you have to treat the whole thing. That is what actually happens. Addition: Sadly, in the real world you would have so called dissipative power. This is mainly caused by friction from air resistance and tyre rolling resistance. The car accelerates until the dissipative power equals the engine power as in this case no "extra power" is put out by the engine that could further increase kinetic energy and it's the point where the "top speed" of a car occurs.

[@cedricl.marquard6273]

@MicroageHD of course my example also supposes that you can always keep the engine at it's optimal rpm without drivetrain inefficiency. And I believe that may be where the real world applications if high torque engines come in

[@drienkm]

@@cedricl.marquard6273 In your last statement, you are thinking of engines with a flat power curve, not necessarily high torque engines.

[@valentinafuffa535]

love your voice, it's so relaxing. great insightful video

[@lgallardo93]

Unintentional asmr

[@birddaddydetta]

Only downside is that I got to turn up the volume by a lot to understand him when I'm on the go

[@keloduma]

Yes I love it

[@RealLordkiffington]

What's wrong with you, it drives me insane

[@Nisowyd]

It makes me uncomfortable as hell

[@randr10]

I like the punching analogy because you're using pistons, which move linearly like a punch, and you get something akin to a punch acting on the connecting rod when combustion occurs in the cylinder and pushes the piston down. It's not exactly right because you've got the mechanical transfer from that linear motion into rotational motion through the crankshaft, but it is a more useful analogy than ones I've heard in the past. With larger numbers of cylinders, you can get more punches in each revolution and therefore produce the same amount of power at a lower RPM than an engine with fewer cylinders. It's not just about displacement. I'm kind of rambling now so I'll stop, but thanks for the video.

[@TrangDB9]

The analogy of a bicycle and it's gears is helpful too. My teacher used to explain it like that.

[@wiciuwiciu2783]

Punches are perfect analogy especially in boxer engines 😂

[@chriscordray8572]

Rotating high weight mass applies more torque than a lighter weight. But force applied to that Rotating mass can be demishiesed. A Lighter Rotating mass with the same force applied will increase in RPM and torque but can handle higher forces if applied. So engine building is a catch 22 situation 😂 Getting the right combination of force vs mass 💪 is actually where's its at, power to weight ratios...😂

[@matthiasmay1977]

That's why cars have a transmission. Torque at the wheels is what counts and not between motor and transmission. It's always good to know at euych RPM the motor has the highest output and where it's most efficient. Imagine airplanes, boats or generators. These often do not have a transmission or even a fixed gear ratio. So they need to be tuned that their max torque occurs in the optimum RPM.

[@nigelnicholson7439]

At last. I finally understand the relationship between torque and HP. Thank you. Your videos are both entertaining and educational.

[@mociczyczki]

yea but he dont show what happen if he give each of hees hipothetical engine version perfect gearing so 1 gear lenght gear quantity and diffrences between gear lenght which setup must be very individuall choicen in regard to power characteristic for each version 👌🏻 and what happen than ? 👉🏻 topend power biased engine so in chees comaprision 1000 hp 500 nm or lbft whatever beat torque biased engine so in hees test 500 hp 1000 nmor lbft version be alot 👌🏻 even if we load each version not be 6000 pounds but be 60000 pounds at limits and all individual precise choicen in terms of gesring it all comes to how much power ypu can deliver/transfer/teleport to whelll alll the time from dead stop to finish line and if ypu setup perfect gearing for topenf power version perfectly thanthis version be able to deliver more power alll the way basicallly from start to finish accelerste much wuicker with the same load /resist this he dont explain and cos of this this video is TRASH nothing more reallly and misleading people but in regard to daily riding avg car asf most driver anyways choicen torque biased engine why ? cos it need less downshift and upshift and always work on lower rpm cos if torq is biger than for achieve be engine the same power so how much work in specified time it can do he need lesss rpm simple 👌🏻😎☕️

[@overstack7128]

I love the idea of using simulations to demonstrate these problems ! Also the takeaway that power and torque are connected is greatly conveyed. There is a couple issues with the simulation I'd like to point out, and comments I'd like to add for other nerdy viewers: -> at 6:20, power curve of the torque biased engine shows peak power of 𝟲𝟰𝟬𝗵𝗽 𝗮𝘁 𝟰𝟬𝟬𝟬𝗿𝗽𝗺, due to 500hp@5000rpm and 1000lb-ft@2500rpm being impossible to match -> in this simulation, the driver let the wheels slip most the times skewing the results and, as you pointed out, demonstrating the importance of tire traction So based on the power-torque curves shown, the engines compared are: -Torque biased: 640hp@4000rpm, power band 3000-5000rpm -Power biased: 1000hp@10500rpm, power band 9000-13500rpm The same gear ratios that were used on both engines for simplicity heavily penalized the power biased engine by not allowing it in it's higher revving power band. The best example of this is motorcycles: they have high power @ high rpm with low torque, but use higher final drive ratios to allow them to use their higher rpm power bands. One thing that can matter is power band width, by reducing the number of gear shifts necessary to remain in the power band, however even this can be mitigated by using tighter gears and a quick shifting transmission. Mathematically speaking, power is how much kinetic energy you're adding in the vehicle per second through the tires. Kinetic energy being speed and speed per second being acceleration, 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝗶𝘀 𝗮𝗰𝗰𝗲𝗹𝗲𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻. My way of explaining power-torque is: 𝗪𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗮 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗽𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘀𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻, 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗶𝘀 𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘆𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴. 𝗧𝗼𝗿𝗾𝘂𝗲 𝗶𝘀 𝗮𝗹𝗺𝗼𝘀𝘁 𝗺𝗲𝗮𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴𝗹𝗲𝘀𝘀, 𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗶𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗻𝘀𝗺𝗶𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗶𝘀 𝘀𝗲𝘁 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁, 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗱𝗿𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼 𝘄𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲 𝘁𝘄𝗼 𝗲𝗻𝗴𝗶𝗻𝗲𝘀 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵 𝗱𝗶𝗳𝗳𝗲𝗿𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝘁𝗼𝗿𝗾𝘂𝗲 𝗯𝘂𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝗽𝗲𝗮𝗸 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝗱𝗲𝗹𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝘁𝗼𝗿𝗾𝘂𝗲 𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘄𝗵𝗲𝗲𝗹𝘀 𝗮𝘁 𝗽𝗲𝗮𝗸 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿, 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝘂𝗹𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗶𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘀𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝗮𝗰𝗰𝗲𝗹𝗲𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻. If the wheels don't slip (and that's the driver's fault not the engine's), and the 2 cars have appropriately set transmission, the one with more power will win most/all the time. P.S: Why do trucks and pickups use high torque engines ? Why cars have much higher torque than motorcycles for the same HP ? Isn't it because weight requires torque ? 𝗡𝗼. It's because 𝗴𝗲𝗻𝗲𝗿𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆, 𝗮𝘁 𝗲𝗾𝘂𝗮𝗹 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿, 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗥𝗣𝗠/𝗹𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘁𝗼𝗿𝗾𝘂𝗲, 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗳𝗲𝘀𝗽𝗮𝗻 𝗯𝘂𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗲𝗻𝗴𝗶𝗻𝗲. Motorcycles accept a shorter engine life because they need to be very light, and on the other hand trucks need long lasting engines and aren't as much penalized by weight, so they opt for slow revving diesel engine, witch inevitably results in high torque and a heavy engine

[@brunocorrea6010]

Also, with more torque at lower rpm's, you reach your peak torque/power sooner, with less revs. That's make a stop'n'go easier and put less stress on the clutch/torque converter. Hence the differences from a truck diesel engine and a sports bike. Then the gear ratios adjust the usability.

[@portaaids]

Agree with everything. This video was almost perfect, but he didn't set up the transmissions properly for each car, and it just so happened the transmission picked suited the car with more torque. The conclusion that the torque-biased car wins when towing 6000lb is going to give a lot of people the wrong impression.

[@SlyNine]

​@@brunocorrea6010gearing would fix all of that. Gearboxes can act as a torque multiplier. You want double the torque, double the ratio. The reason is efficiency.

[@overstack7128]

@@SlyNine He's right about that tho, low rpm torque avoids having to either put excessive strain on the clutch, or to have an absurdly low first gear ratio. I omitted it in my inital comment since i didn't know how to put it simply

[@BigUriel]

@@brunocorrea6010With less revs yes, sooner no. If your engine is twice as big, makes twice as much torque, makes the same power but only revs half as high, it will increase in RPM under acceleration with half the speed. The engine that revs twice as high and has double the gear ratio revs up 200rpm for every 100rpm your engine does. People think engines with more torque result in more in gear acceleration from low RPM, but this is actually not the case if the two engines torque curves are similar shapes (regardless of the absolute figures). There's lots of examples of revvier engines with less torque that result in better in gear acceleration than larger torquier engines with similar power moving similar vehicles, the revier engine doesn't just rev higher, it revs faster.

[@braddofner]

Wow, HP vs Torque has always confused me and you made it seem almost childishly easy to understand. Many thanks to you, good sir! I am excited to see what else I can learn. Keep making the good videos!

[@SlyNine]

Just remember, gear box is a torque multiplier. Half the torque at double the engine RPM gives you the same power. The same torque at the wheels.

[@Spinnifuchs]

Like the video but what's missing is comparison when both vehicles would each be geared for optimal performance. The HP one would win much clearer.

[@zorbakaput8537]

That would be an invalid engineering comparison because the cars were identical including the gearing that's the whole point. His definition presentation was about defining torque and HP you missed the boat completely, it wasn't about gearing on either or using better tyres etc. He explained it fully.

[@FAB1150]

​@@zorbakaput8537well no, the question is "which one of the two is more important in a drag race/for performance", answer being "HP, when geared properly".

[@martinsvensson6884]

@@zorbakaput8537 Not really becuse that's exactly how you engineer every car in actual reality...

[@roflchopter11]

​@@zorbakaput8537no, because only a complete simpleton would run those two engines with the same transmissions and final drive ratios.

[@dmoqppsoysc]

right he says it depends but for a race hp is the more important figure since you can change the gear ratios

[@e7venjedi]

The punching 'damage' metaphor is fantastic. Great videos.

[@bassie9400]

One of the best ways to understand hp/torque is by comparing it to riding a bicycle with gears. When you try to accelerate the fastest possible from a standstill in the highest gear you will accelerate very slow because the amount of revolutions per time (=rpm) of the bicycle's pedals/axle is very low, despite you are applying maximum force, thus maximum torque, with your legs. When you try the same in a very low gear you will accelerate much quicker because the rpm of your bike is much higher, while applying less force on your pedals => less torque on the axle There is an analogy between your legs powering your bycicle's pedals > axle/chain > wheel and combustion powering your car's pistons > crankshaft > transmission > wheels

[@bogusphone8000]

However, if a seasoned rider with stronger legs (i.e. more torque) gets on this bicycle, they can out accelerate you in top gear. So, if we put a body builder on the bike, he can launch hard in top gear. However, he will reach a point where he cannot move the pedals very quickly and will max out his top speed. Conversely, we can put an Olympic rider on the bike. He will not launch as hard, but in a few moments will be going faster and leave the body builder behind.

[@horatiohuffnagel7978]

That's just gearing. The power going in is the same.

[@simplemachine9531]

​@@horatiohuffnagel7978wrong, cyclist has a power curve that peaks at a certain rpm

[@bassie9400]

@horatiohuffnagel7978 human muscle's force peaks at static contraction thus at 0 rpm. As rpm increases the force (torque) you will be able to put down will decline gradually, but your power will keep increasing until the point where rpm x force (torque) is maximal. At this point your leg muscle's won't have enough time to deliver enough force to make more power despite a higher rpm. This depends on your training level, amount of type 2 fibres, etc. Same applies to ICE engines, except your torque is determined by the Volumetric efficiency rpm range of the cylinders. It usually peaks a bit further up the rpm range instead of in the beginning as with riding a bicycle.

[@feelinghealingfrequences7179]

good learned this bike commuting if running late and have to stop at red lights or stop signs shift up before stopping to start in a low gear and then shift shift shift

[@GTfour01]

Mate, I so love your dry and very factual way of explaining. I'm a lifelong petrolhead and can appreciate thourough research and knowledge of ICE's so much. 👌🏻 Keep it up and warm greetz from The Netherlands.

[@LeonSluiter]

Medehollander🤝

[@GTfour01]

@@LeonSluiter 😘🇳🇱

[@juular1565]

Great presentation style, clear and non-shouty. Thank you.

[@kono5933]

How you say 'torque' is very relaxing

[@Sir_Cactus]

Power is what matters. Energy per unit of time. Exactly what you need. With a good transmission with many gears, that allows the engine to be at peak power for as long as possible, power will win.

[@yummyhershey5902]

CVT superiority 😤✊

[@julianhigginson5946]

I love this Chanel ❤keep it up

[@natebit7167]

The punching analogy is amazing. I never really understood horsepower before this video.

[@svr5423]

power is usually easier to understand than torque. rotational mechanics are a bit complicated.

[@constantinevu48]

You still don't but you liked it, lol 😅😂

[@miks564]

Horsepower is *always* what determines how fast a car can go or accelerate when talking about top performance. Torque is important only because together with the engine rpms, generates horsepower. The more torque we have, the more horsepower we get from a specific rpms range. In this case, the car with much higher torque, generates more power earlier in the rpms range. But since this is a 'who's faster' kind of question, the one with higher peak power, will always be faster.

[@mgoogyi]

"the one with higher peak power, will always be faster" It's not this simple. A higher average power that the car goes through as shifting gears in this race. A Mazda rotary engine might have a slightly higher peak power than any of his rivals, but slightly weaker normal engines have significantly higher torque, therefore their average hp output is higher.

[@Samuel-em3nc]

The horsepower only only represents its peak. In case you reach your peak hp at 10000rpm but dont have the torque to accelerate with low rpm, your acceleration is not gonna be amazing

[@miks564]

@@Samuel-em3nc True. That’s why we rev up the engine for good acceleration, either by using the clutch from a stand or by shifting a couple of gears down. Transmission is what save us from very weak torque at very low engine speeds. Electric engines don’t need this because they easily generate power from their high torque.

[@svr5423]

@@mgoogyi wrong conclusion. that would mean that the "weaker normal engine" would have a more optimized transmission. If the transmission is equally optimized over the whole range and both cars weigh the same and have the same drag, the Mazda wins.

[@mgoogyi]

@@svr5423 If you have enough gears to be in the optimal power band all the time then the mazda has a chance. If not then the normal engine has a bigger useful powerband area and it should win. 2007 RX-8: You have to have your rev between 7500 and 9000 rpm in all gears to be between 225 and 250 hp. If you have a car with 230-240 HP on a range of 2000 RPM you beat the RX-8 because your average HP will be higher. I am just talking about the size of the area under the power curve what you are actually using when shifting gears. The bigger area the higher average acceleration.

[@darrenius]

How does sound like his speaking normally yet whispering at the same time😂. So calming

[@fr3ddyfr3sh]

Summary: - if you have less than 4 gears and like to pull houses: prefer torque - if you have a gearbox from this century: prefer HP

[@yummyhershey5902]

Yeah, modern transmissions are incredible. It seems like every performance car has at least 7 speeds now.

[@mustangstuff7213]

Nope. The higher torque car, with proper gearing, wins every time. There's a reason he didn't adjust the transmission gear ratios. Didn't you notice that?

[@drienkm]

Not so. Even with few gears, you need an engine with the highest average power. Said another way, highest and broadest power curve. Torque and rpm at the engine are only meaningful when considered together, not independently.

[@erikakbaev5512]

So better to choose higher torque car if Im looking for Toyota

[@drienkm]

@@fr3ddyfr3sh Not quite... If you "have less than 4 gears and like to pull houses" as you say, you need power with a flatter power curve. A flat power curve is often (but not always) found in engines that don't rev very high, which are usually sized larger to make enough power through torque without a lot of rpm. It's the shape of the power curve, not the high peak torque that makes such an engine so forgiving to shifting and gear choice (and fun to drive/ride;). It has power everywhere. Basically as long as the ratio of distance rolled per engine revolution was somehow under the control of the vehicle's designer or its operator, then power (and the shape of that curve) ALWAYS tells you how the vehicle will perform, at least as far as the engine is concerned. Peak engine torque has a much weaker correlation to vehicle performance because it's only half the picture. RPM is the other half. Power is both taken into account - the whole picture at every moment, for everything; plowing, racing, towing, hill climbing, accelerating, or reaching high speeds.

[@las3k91]

Take real life example of BMW E39: 528i 193hp, but only 280Nm, 530d also 193hp and 410Nm and 540i with 286hp and 440Nm. Performance of 528i and 530d with same power is very similar [530d is little slower due to bigger mass], and 540i is a lot faster than 530d despite having comparable torque figure. That's it.

[@linushforsberg8385]

Assuming perfect grip perfect gearshifts and same weight, drag etc. Then your acceleration will be your average horsepower, or the area under your hp graph in the RPM range you use between shifts.

[@an0nim11]

People bragging about them "only chip 280hp" 530d "torque monster" will state its outrunning m5 XD I mean yeah the torqe figure of 530d and 540i are comparable but torque curves for max performance are obviously in favor for 540i resulting in power band that gives arround 1.5 more of the overall WHEEEL TORQUE that is compatible wiht 286/193HP equation. And yeah properly tuned 280hp 530d may exceed even the m5 torque figure but it still won't make it faster in sprint scenario due to torque curve combined with gearing resulting in better peak power of 400hp and also better WHP, WTQ in favour of m5. 530d may be still more efficient though. For each their own ofc but i hate when they make up stories.

[@SteveGergetz]

You explain this incredibly well. Thank you! Even though I did finally figure this all out (I mean, the basics of it) a few years ago without your video, I sure wish I had seen your video decades ago instead of just now. Keep up the fabulous and interesting videos.

[@keloduma]

Your delivery is so relaxing

[@wilharnecker2575]

Would you agree that an engine that "feels torquey" just means that it's likely producing its HP lower in its RPM range than an engine of the same HP that feels less torquey? I can see the engineer rolling her eyes.

[@kevin9c1]

Given proper gearing the higher HP engine will always be faster, even when you increase weight. The reason semi trucks use the engines they do is not because they "need a lot of torque to move the weight." In fact a 500hp 4 cylinder turbo could pull an 80,000 lb trailer no problem if it was geared right. It's because of many other good reasons that I will attempt to list. 1) Large turbo diesel engines are substantially more fuel efficient for their power output. 2) A large turbo diesel engine can actually sustain its max power output continuously rather than for quick bursts, from a cooling and durability perspective. This also translates into overall longevity. 500,000 or even 1 million miles are possible, working all day everyday. That 500 hp turbo 4 will need a rebuild at 80,000 miles doing the same amount of work. Maybe sooner. 3) In the engine RPM operating range, a large turbo diesel engine has a flatter HP curve meaning within that range, it will make more average HP. Of course, a theoretical 100% efficient and 100% durable CVT would solve this problem for our fictional 500 hp turbo 4 but that doesn't exist. So in the real world with gearing, the 500 hp turbo 4 is going to perform worse because it won't be operating at an RPM where it makes 500 hp as often. 4) Similar to #3 but more specifically for launch conditions, the large turbo diesel is making FAR closer to its max HP at RPMs where you would normally expect to get the weight moving. In the 500 hp turbo 4 example, you'd need to slip the clutch at like 5000 rpm just to get the load moving (or we'd switch back to a fictional transmission where this would no longer be a disadvantage). Really, the torque that large turbo diesels make is just a byproduct of everything else. You want 500 hp @ 2200 rpm? Well that is going to require 4 figure torque. It's just the way the math works out.

[@ContraVsGigi]

By far the most clearly explained difference between the two I've seen. Thank you.

[@piratetaurussackinhaff9402]

Best explanation Ever! I've struggled with understanding this my entire life. My brain is no longer broken.

[@FreedZ]

The transmission is absolutly relevant for this comparison. When the transmission is designed correctly, horsepower always wins. In the end you can achive any amount of torque, when the wheel speed is low. It doesn't matter at all, which motor I have in a truck or in a formula one car, as long as horsepower and weight is the same and the transmission is designed for the correct purpose.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

But you have to be able to move the vehicle, a heavier vehicle requires more torque to move

[@FreedZ]

@@shadowopsairman1583 Thats what a transmission does. You simply trade rpm for torque or torque for rpm. Power (hp) always stays the same (ok, almost. apart from the efficiency)

[@chrisbeaumont6166]

I feel like that fact that this "pathetic, useless, high-horsepower engine" is basically the same engine as the legendary 2004 F1 3 litre V10s should end the discussion 😂 no one is calling them slow

[@mustangstuff7213]

You're dead wrong. Properly geared, torque wins every time, in every scenario. You can't just make extra torque. Lol. Such a dumb misconception. I don't give a crap what you do with gearing or ratios. THAT DOES NOT CREATE MORE TORQUE. The engines torque (power) generation does not change. The engine makes the power it makes. How you apply the engines power to ground can change, sure. But at that point we're talking about GEARING. Not power.

[@Stefanfj]

@@mustangstuff7213 power is measured in HP, though, so yes, the engine makes the power that it makes. low hp engines will always be low hp, regardless of gearing. But low torque engines can make high torque through gearing - this is called mechanical advantage and it's why putting multiple runs of a rope through a pulley allows a person to lift more weight than a straight rope - it might just take longer if you were already capable of lifting the original weight.

[@manchegocheese997]

Excellent. I've had this argument many times with people who don't understand that torque is included within horsepower, and that a torque figure on its own tells us nothing about engine performance whereas horsepower tells us quite a lot.

[@Mettsemmel]

Finally a KZbinr who is not shouting. Really rare these days. Great explanation btw.!

[@Rhetorical346]

This is a GREATLY underestimating how much faster the 1000 horsepower car would be in the real world. With appropriate gearing, I ran some simulations and that 1000 horsepower car should run a 7 flat quarter mile, while the 1000 ft/lbs torque engine would run a 9 second quarter mile. The difference in speed between those numbers is HUGE. If you put both engines in a more normal 3000 lb car, the difference becomes 10.5 vs 8.5.

[@darkki94]

If you think about it it's basically rotary vs diesel cars.

[@lamp7746]

How about 600hp 800tq vs 800hp vs 600tq

[@Rhetorical346]

@@lamp7746 In a real world comparison the car with 33% more horsepower is going to win by a lot.

[@Cruor34]

Normal 3000 lb car? What planet are you from? a 2004 Jaguar XJR is like 3950 lbs and an E63 AMG of the same year is like 4400 lbs. Cars only get HEAVIER as the years go by. My Tesla Model 3 Performance is 4000 lbs and its small. Some little weenie mobile or some full on race car with no comforts might be 3000 but a decent car is 4000 +. Torque is better from 0-80 or so and 0-80 is all that matters unless you live in Germany or the Isle of Mann.

[@Rhetorical346]

@Cruor34 race cars are commonly 3000 lbs. It's just a number I picked that is a more real world comparison. Lay off the coffee abs pay attention more, nearly everything you said was wrong. Torque doesn't matter, horsepower and gearing do.

[@toxicteabaging]

What a magnificently clear and easy to understand concept through your explanation, thanks for the vid, good sir!

[@constantinevu48]

The only easy stuff was to make you think you understand it, lol 😅

[@Adam-nv9zo]

Great explanation 👏 👏 👏

[@nathanaelcole8466]

I understand the relationship between HP and torque but have always struggled to explain it in a way that people understand because when you factor in time it really confuses people. Kind of similar to velocity vs. acceleration. I just found you and subscribed. I'm going to look for a video explaining how trap speed and vehicle weight (we'll ignore drag) is simply a result of horsepower regardless of elapsed time. If you don't have one, I think that would be a great one to break down and I look forward to how you do it. Also, the slightly more complex set of factors that go into the elapsed time, specifically the initial launch and the general rule of thumb that every tenth of a second you take off your 60' results in two tenths off your 1/4 mile time.

[@leandredebrito2991]

You said you made a software to predict drag race outcomes right? What was the standard deviation?

[@nathanaelcole8466]

@@leandredebrito2991 Standard deviation of what exactly? All the students' predicted to actual? I know I was a couple tenths off and less than 1 mph off, if I recall, everyone was pretty close. We should have all been using the same equations in the same way if doing it correctly. I'm scratching my head right now wondering if my old computer in my closet has the spreadsheet on it lol.

[@leandredebrito2991]

@@nathanaelcole8466 Yeah, that's what I meant. I think it's super cool you got it that accurate.

[@lasskinn474]

hp is amount of work. torque is just an indication of what kind of work is possibly maybe being done but not how much

[@prich0382]

I think saying time is confusing, if you say frequency or frequency in time, it's easier to understand

[@WinterWilder-o8l]

This is absolutely fascinating and a wonderful explanation. Thank you!!. Just amazing how you always explains everything so clearly. Thank you!.

[@constantinevu48]

You might think it's clear until someone proves you wrong, but when we get back here, where you trust something easy to understand and think you got it...then what ever bruh, you won't got it 😅

[@truculenttabasco]

Thanks man.. I've been a car guy forever, but never really properly understood the difference until now. Appreciate you making this 🤌🏼

[@solcharms]

Just want to add that peak numbers are less important than 'area under the curve'. For a 7000 rpm limit vehicle in a drag race, your rpm will sweep from ~4000-7000 as you climb the gears. So the torque values at each of these rpm is the force that is delivered by the engine.

[@TheBroLounge]

seems to be why you see a lot of 4cyl cars with stated high HP numbers lose a lot of drag races, their power band sucks.

[@prestongodsey3567]

Usually traction is the issue in high hp 4cyl fwd.

[@prestongodsey3567]

Also the fact that a turbo'd K-Series civic in street race trim usually weighs around or just under 2000lbs. So not alot of weight to help traction

[@prestongodsey3567]

I've seen a dodge neon srt walk the dog on a couple different 1000cc bikes, from a 40mph roll. From a dig, they usually get him bye about 2 cars. His 60' is like 1.80's.

[@TheBroLounge]

@@prestongodsey3567 traction is an issue for everyone in no prep racing. Im just saying that 4cyl cars with stated high HP numbers dont seem to perform as well as V8 with high HP or even 6cyl.

[@Catrik]

The torque of the _engine_ doesnt matter, because you can get any amount of torque at the wheels by using gear ratios. The horsepower is always the same at the tires (not counting losses) regardless if gearing. Dont know if the simulation had a variator option for a transmission, but assuming you had one, the higher HP engine will always have more torque at the _tires_ , if the variator lets you stay at peak HP all the time during acceleration. In the "real world" engine torque does matter, because 99,9% of the time you're not trying to accelerate as fast as possible, you're trying to have a comfortable drive with decent economy and service life.

[@o______opanasovych]

Good explanation. Thx for such an effort you've put into this. Subscribed

[@dno8025]

Horsepower is intrinsic to an engine. Torque can be (almost) indefinitely multiplied with gears. This information (along with available traction) can be used to select the optimum gear ratios and shift points to achieve the best quarter mile time.

[@nhibbs3]

Exactly. All that really matters is power output. Torque can be fixed with gearing or tire size.

[@kalasmournrex1470]

No, engine torque is also intrinsic and determined by how much air is combusted in one engine cycle (either due to displacement and/or compression). Wheel torque and engine torque are not the same.

[@nhibbs3]

@@kalasmournrex1470 well good thing no one cares about engine torque, what matters is wheel torque which can be multiplied by gearing. Wheel horsepower cannot be changed by gearing. Therefore horsepower is the critical attribute

[@dno8025]

@@kalasmournrex1470 - Wheel torque can be multiplied. Wheel horsepower can't. I hope that helps you out.

[@rich7447]

@@nhibbs3 I definitely care about engine torque. Tow a big trailer or drive a heavy vehicle and you can't get away with a low torque high horsepower engine. Also by changing torque at the wheel you also affect horsepower. The two are mathematically related.

[@needsmoreboosters4264]

The way I've always thought of it is essentially that horsepower and the width of the power band matters most, as long as you have a transmission geared appropriately to take advantage of that power band at most speeds. Torque alone generally only matters if you're towing or hauling a heavy load at low speed and your transmission isn't capable of using your maximum horsepower at that speed.

[@elchido3517]

hp only good when starting ftom standing still, if it was a race for distance torque takes it, like for 1/4 miles HP.

[@simplemachine9531]

​@@elchido3517one of the stupidest things I ever heard

[@1king_kat908]

​@@elchido3517 I believe that you misunderstood

[@Dejan_Beganovic]

​@elchido3517 brother you got it completely opposite

[@svr5423]

torque doesn't matter much in the end. It's important for the people designing the gearbox. it also lets you calculate your power curve, which is important if you have a manually shifted car, so you know which gear to use in which situation.

[@omaral-ajmi250]

i like the video and how u explain things, its educational and entertaining. good job!

[@jakislogin24]

Hi, at 7:04 you set driving style to conservative and that presets redline at 5250 rpms. As I understand the simulation will shift virtual gears at that rpms. Did you change that parameter for HP biased car? I mean, does the HP biased car actually use the whole range of available rpms?

[@birddaddydetta]

I thought so as well, that must've messed up the numbers a lot

[@flyonbyya]

The car that produces the highest Ave HP over the course of the race wins.

[@tcn1john]

HP at lower speed gives you more acceleration so the claim not necessarily true.

[@3d9e]

It's more like the highest average speed over the course. 10,000 HP doesn't matter if the car only runs 10 km/h 😂

[@Dirtyharry70585]

Depends on the quality of the drive train build and driver.

[@sntslilhlpr6601]

Correct. By definition.

[@bence.gabor.slezak]

@@3d9e that's the dumbest thing ever. Speed is the result of the car's performance. If both of these cars have ideal gearing, the high hp car will make more average hp, therefore higher average speed and win.

[@tomstech4390]

"hp sells cars and torque wins races"... often said by people who can't build a high flowing head that just gets choked over 4500rpm (or rotating assembly limits rpm). Power is power.

[@GeoffInfield]

Finally! I'm sooo sick of trying to explain to people that the reason you won't win a drag race with a truck engine is because the old adage "torque moves the car" is actually "torque *at the wheels* moves the car" and that's affected by gearing 🤬 My CBR1000RR bike makes 180hp at about 10,000rpm and a Honda Civic might make the same 180hp at 5000rpm and if we dynoed them at peak horsepower *the torque at the rear wheel(s) will be the same* at a given road speed despite it being different at the crank cos my bike has a 2:1 gearing advantage due to revving twice as high. This is why horsepower as a metric exists - if you make 180hp at the rear wheel, who cares how much torque the engine makes at that point? It's irrelevant because it's affected by gearing and horsepower ISN'T. What can be relevant is the curve, because when you extract a lot of power out of a small motor, the power curve is steep and you need more gears and if you wanted to sit at say 1/3rd redline on the highway for maximum fuel economy, even allowing for gearing my bike is likely making way less power at those rpm than the Civic which would be a problem if my bike engine was IN a car body. *Torque only has relevance when measured at the wheels, and saying "wow look how much peak torque the engine makes at 3000rpm!" is the same as saying "wow, look how much horsepower it's making at 3000rpm!"*. Sorry, I've been angry about this since my (other!) favourite youtuber Cleetus McFarlane got a diesel Galaxy lol. Yes, huge torque, ohhh, and ahh, but ONLY at the crank cos the gearing is disastrous on a low rpm engine like that.

[@NBSV1]

Depends a lot on the weight of the vehicle. Put the CBR engine in the civic and even if the horsepower is the same it’ll be slower because the bike engine makes less low rpm torque. Basically it won’t get moving from a stop as quickly. There’s always a balance. A high torque V twin motorcycle can be very quick off the line until the high rpm I 4 can get going. Just look at something like the Triumph rocket. It’s very heavy with a big low rpm engine that’s mostly torque. Yet, it’s very quick off the line.

[@Xenon0000000000001]

@@NBSV1 It doesn't depend on the weight of the vehicle, since you can just compensate for the need for more wheel torque with lower gearing. You can also launch at pretty much any RPM you want if your clutch/torque converter can handle it. The reason you don't typically get small light engines in heavier vehicles is because small light engines have trade offs to get that power (initial cost, running ocsts and durability), and those trade offs are only worth it if your vehicle needs to be lightweight (like on a motorcycle).

[@brunocorrea6010]

@@NBSV1 what makes the vehicle go is power. you can make power by either increasing the torque or increasing the rpm. Whatever the engine you put on a vehicle, you need to adjust the gear ratio to it's powerband and weight.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Numbers with combustion engines is mostly a game with people, especially those in the modification space. So much of it is merely boasting. The point with numbers has always been a quotation with "peak" numbers. Then the company they keep returns the counter-statement, and they return their counter-statement and back and forth and back and forth. It's like two enemies on a battlefield taunting each other about the size of their weapons and horses before they prove whether their claims have any basis in reality. Fact of the matter is, the issue of internal combustion engines, transmissions, tire adhesion, and all of the rest are very complex. People want to boast of their ability to distill something that is extremely complex down into a few simple statements. It's simply not how the science of locomotion works.

[@MPI1000]

@@NBSV1 What torque an N/A engine has is pretty much entirely dependent on what displacement it has, times volumetric efficiency. This means about 90-120 Nm per liter of displacement. For instance, a very common misconception is that a 1000cc V-twin has more torque than a 1000cc I4 superbike engine. This is simply not the case, just check the numbers. For instance, the newish CBR 1000RR-R revs to 15000rpm, but it has 115Nm of torque. Now look up any 1000cc V-twin you want and see if you get higher numbers (hint: you wont). People have a tendency to misuse the term 'torque', when they actually mean "low end grunt" or something to that effect. This is unfortunate as it leads to misunderstandings of how things actually work... Like when you detune an engine for "streetability" (i.e. low-end grunt), you don't actually increase the torque. In fact, you almost always lower the actual torque!

[@Termuellinator]

You should have given the HP-Engine double the gear ratio as it has double the RPM for peak power imho. But other than that, well made video! :)

[@792bnz]

Yup engineering explained made a torque vs HP breakdown and spoke about this

[@ChadDidNothingWrong]

They both need a CVT for a fair comparison.

[@792bnz]

@@ChadDidNothingWrong imho, that is still dependant on the ratio of the cvt. There isn't only one unanimous ratio for all cvt

[@Carl_Jr]

​@@792bnzPlease explain how this "ratio" of a CVT works.

[@792bnz]

@@Carl_Jr it's a final drive gear ratio like any other car. The only difference is there are no gears like a regular trans. As an example 3:1 is longer ratio and 4:1 is shorter

[@LordTheodore04]

Most informative KZbin channel

[@car_guy]

Am i the only one who is more confused 😂😂

[@harpoon2445]

The engine that is able to output more HP during acceleration is always fastest. It is just that is not always the engine that has the highest max power output, because power depends on RPM and the gearbox comes into play.

[@l_Eqodox_lK]

Fastest at acceleration, yes, top speed not so much. At higher speeds with that much gear box draw to keep everything spinning at a higher speed would pull power from the motor. a high hp car, on the other hand, with the a favorable custom gearbox, would be faster at higher speeds.

[@thomaspark5843]

I think it's very relaxing how he says torque

[@toddpillow3074]

Nice content and good explanations as usual. Would have been even better had you taken the time to optimize gearing such that each motor could fully utilize its power. With such optimization, more power should always win and this is why race teams put so much effort into “getting power to the ground”. Thanks 😊

[@derblaue]

If we construct two engines with the same power curve except one is scaled to twice the max rpm with half the torque but twice the gear ratio, both cars will produce the same power at the same percentage of max RPM. The high reving car will have half the torque yet both engines will (assuming no drive train losses) perform EXACTLY the same in a drag race.

[@DennisMurphey]

Very fun Video. In my experience on the farm I understood torque from the Farm Tractor and out 2 1/2 ton Grain Truck. Where 6 cylinder engines would pull everything. But later when I had a Corvette I knew Horsepower allows me to go faster. I noticed that the Corvette Engineers would always try to keep the HP to Torque fairly equal. So my 1st Corvette had 365 Hp and 325 Ft Lb of Torque. While today My Corvette now has 460 HP and 455 Ft Lb of torque. But I recall the old Corvette was slow from a dead stop until the engine was wound up to 3,500 RPMs. Where this New Corvette will take off screaming at Any Speed. Now the transmissions are different and gear Ratios but many it feels like the low end Torque of this newer Corvette is what I feel when driving. Yet I still miss the 3,500 rpm Scream to 6500 rpm Roar. Great video and useful illustration using your simulation. Thank You, Dennis

[@cuddlepaws4423]

You were correct at the start of the video. With all the equations I now feel like I have been punched with a boxing glove. Interesting though, as I had considered torque to be more important, possibly, than horsepower. However, now I can see that because the two are linked, the horsepower number gives a better overall picture of performance. As per the software, you can always gear down for increased torque for things like trucks and earth moving equipment.

[@constantinevu48]

You are actually closer to the main point ☝️

[@nc8833]

you got a baby sleeping in that room ?

[@BionicRusty]

Great video. 👍 I’ve always thought of and explained it as 2 Stroke Race Engines (screamers) are horsepower and 4 Stroke Race engines (grunt) are torque.

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

12:40 Torque is NOT about a single rotation, its simply the twisting (torque) force and tells nothing about how quickly work is being done.

[@B4ndItOo]

I think this is a very misleading explanation. In the same application those two engines would have completely different transmissions. The high horsepower would have for example twice as large final drive to facilitate large rev range. And that would smoke the high torque engine everywhere (as long there is a traction and assuming torque curves have reasonable shapes)

[@zacharysherry2910]

I agree mostly. The math wouldn't even work for electric cars because the size of the wheels would be a new big factor then wind resistance... Etc.

[@Jack-n7c6p]

I love your videos iv learned a lot keep up the good work 👍

[@nekro3736]

Was the 10.504 rpm at the 7:25 intended?

[@jameslucas3161]

WHY IS HE WHISPERING???

[@TheErikbrush]

His kids are sleeping while he is recording this.

[@brandonparkinson6647]

The only man that's helped more understand the difference

[@mociczyczki]

meanwhillle 👉🏻 royal enfield continental 535 gt 185 kg 44 nm /30 hp 0-100 km/h 9 sec vmax 140 km/h vs yamaha mt03 170 kg (so let assume on mt03 is 15 kg heavier driver 👌🏻) 30 nm/42 hp 0-100 km/h 6 sec vmax 160 km/h 🤭 this video is piss of 💩why ? cos he dont show what happen in reall world when you setup on each vehicle perfect gearing what basicallly each vehicle produce today HAVE 👌🏻 thats diffrences between 💩 video like this and good video where all is explain welll , long story short at set gear bigerr thrust acceleration occure at peak torq rpm but at set speed it OCCURE at peak power rpm 👌🏻 for racing matter peak acceleration at set SPEED ., daily droving is diffrrent story for which aplicationprobabaly most driver will choice torque biased version as it give nicer kick from low midle rpm asf 👌🏻if he setup/equipemnt each of hees version with perfect gearing than more topend power version so 1000 hp 500 nm 100% smoked version with more lowend torq 500 hp 1000 nm 😎👌🏻beacuse POWER:VEHICLE SPEED = F O R C E and as we know from force level depend accelerstion level for set resist 👌🏻dont watch this vodeo precisellly or watch butlong ago dont want again watch this crasp of 💩 anyways what he want to say more less is „ give torque biased engine perfect gearing or relatively good gearing vs give power biased engine /version gearing from foken HELLL be which people with iq of chimpanzeee will be ashamed and torq biased version 100% smoked power biased version” what is true 😉👌🏻 though he forget mention like im write earlier what happen in real world if he only dare to give power biased version perfect gearing 🤭 thats diffrences 👌🏻what determined that this video is piss of crassp and 💩👌🏻☕️

[@kronop8884]

A really good explanation, especially the punches part I usually explain that torque represents the work the engine can perform (compare to the weight you can lift) and horsepower indicates how fast it can be done (how fast you can lift the weight) for people with little knowledge on physics or engines. Its not the whole truth but it gets people on the right track at least.

[@miks564]

Horsepower is always the key for more speed, more acceleration or more heavy lifting. It’s always about power. Power determines the work we can achieve in a specific amount of time. Torque ‘only’ determines the rpm’s needed to get whatever power out. …but because of this, high torque is always a good thing to have.

[@BigUriel]

@@miks564 Power is not the key for more heavy lifting, that's precisely what the torque is for (or force rather, which is the linear equivalent). With enough torque/force multiplication you can lift whatever weight you want, more power just means you can lift it faster. Tractors can pull anything of comparable mass and heavy industrial machinery can lift anything of comparable mass, none of them have very powerful engines typically. A big 200 ton excavator only has like 150-200hp (and most of that is for when it needs to drive around, it only uses a fraction of that when stationary and actually digging), it's designed to lift literally tons of weight but it doesn't have to lift it very fast (in fact you don't want it to because it wouldn't be safe). Nowadays there's motorcycles with more power than that, because you need power for speed.

[@miks564]

@@BigUriel We need power for everything, not only for speed. The higher the torque, more power we get with less engine motion, that is why torque is so important in some applications. But it’s always the power that accomplish any work at all, be it speed or heavy duty work. An extreme example, a Diesel locomotive has diesel engines to generate electricity for the electric motors. Trains usually have very high mass that need to generate a lot of power to overcome the inertia and it’s easier to have an electric engine with very high torque from zero rpms, than to have a giant clutch able to apply power to the wheels from a Diesel engine. These engines output very high power because of the heavy mass they have to move around, not because they need high speed.

[@BigUriel]

@@miks564You need "some" power for everything that involves movement, in the sense that zero power means no movement (mechanically speaking). But the ways you can split that power between more torque/lower angular velocity or vice versa are infinite. You could move a locomotive with very little power...just not very fast. The power a locomotive's engine (or electric motor) needs is directly proportional to how fast you want it to go, goes back to exactly what I said. Electric locomotives with Diesel generators don't use Diesel engines because they make more torque (you can actually easily make just as much torque from a gasoline engine as a Diesel one, it's just not usually how gasoline engines for road vehicles are designed), they use Diesel engines they are the most efficient ones we have (as far as piston engines are concerned at least), a gasoline engine would use more fuel to generate the same electricity. In fact talking about torque in the context of generator engines is moot because they don't transmit any of their torque to the wheels, they are designed and chosen for an application based on their power output, manufacturers of generator engines don't usually even advertise how much torque they make because it's irrelevant. Men can move locomotives. Pulling trains is literally a staple strongman event and has been for decades. How much power do you think a strongman produces, 2hp? 3hp maybe for the really ridiculously strong 400lbs guys? There are mopeds with more powerful engines than that. Yet they can move it...again, just not very fast.

[@simplemachine9531]

​@@BigUrielso, according to you, nobody cares how fast tractor and excavator will make the work done. Like -hey, we need to move a million tons of sand, let's use 5hp excavator. -A million years later: Read what power is.

[@zetchTV]

Great video! I haven't ever seen your channel before this video was recommended to me, but this was something I really struggled to understand growing up. I wish I had a video like this to learn from 10 years ago 😂 I really liked the analogy with the punches/damage done too. Thats a great way to explain it to someone who has a hard time understanding the difference.

[@redbaron77]

I’ve given this thought before. I could be wrong but I always figured if you gave each car the perfect final drive with each having the same transmission they would be equal. You can’t compare them with equal gear ratios because lower revving engines require a taller gear and high revving engines need shorter gearing.

[@GuillaumeLajoie]

Nope! Hp would be faster with good gearing for both

[@AnD1262]

HP is overall how much energy you have coming from a part, when using gears you are sacrificing torque for RPMs or RPMs for torque, the HP coming from the gearbox is the same as the engine or rather lowered depending on efficiency is my understanding, something that has 300 lb-ft of torque from 10000 rpm to 15000 could, in an ideal world, put more torque on the ground than something with 1000 lb-ft but only has it from 2000 rpm to 3000 rpm... this is not the whole story though, a 600HP(ish?) truck engine is gonna find way more use than a 900HP(ish?)Wankel engine

[@hotdog9262]

@@AnD1262 high torque is just more hp down in the rev range compared to a lower torque engine, if say both ended up at the same peak hp number. hp = tq x rpm. torque is a confusing stat for the consumer comparing numbers. its doing more harm the good imo

[@AnD1262]

@@hotdog9262 don't understand what your point in replying to me was, the comment I replied to has to be assuming the correct gearbox would make a 500HP with 1000 lb-ft engine the same as a 1000HP with 500 lb-ft engine

[@AustinRBa]

Horsepower is the rate at which work is done. End of story.

[@blackwidow7804]

To make things short, the car with more HP will always be faster as long as you are operating at RPM where the car is close to or at peak HP. The car with more torque will be faster only in situations where you are at low RPM where the car with more peak HP is not even close to that power.

[@szymoniak75]

yes

[@ginjaninja6963]

I discovered this channel at 3am, its now 10am and I'm still watching lmao. Love this

[@BartomiejGawron]

It would be good to compare these engines with the optimal gear ratios for each of them. Drawing conclusions without this is pointless (the cars have well tuned gearboxes and at least 6 gears).

[@thromboid]

I was thinking that using a CVT in the simulation would make for an interesting comparison, by allowing both engines to run at their peak power. I'm also thinking, doesn't the torque curve imply the power curve as well, since you can just multiply torque by RPM across the rev range? That is, the torque doesn't convey "less information", but rather torque, power and RPM are all related.

[@MrTL3wis]

A CVT would give us the best theoretical performance. Torque does convey less information. Power is torque normalized to an RPM (In Imperial units, that normalized value is 5252 rpm). Power tells you how much work can be accomplished. Torque just tells you how much drive is available to do the work, but not how much can be done.

[@itabiritomg]

HorsePower=Torque*Rpm, so T=HP/Rpm. By this equation, we note that, as long as you have Enouth hp, all you have to do it to increase the RPM to get as much torque as you want! How you can do this? -Simple: Switching gears! As long as you have a good gearbox, torque simply does´t matter! bigger horsepower will always win.

[@louisholden5127]

No car has a 1:1 direct drive transmission! With appropriate gearing, a car with more power will always be faster.

[@TonyHerson]

You should have tuned the transmissions to perform optimally for each engine (each engine would have had a different transmission). The high hp engine would have won in every category.

[@mociczyczki]

TRUE 😎 except daily riding atleast for most people .

[@jkwille]

bro finally iv been into cars and engines for a few years and gave up on the difference between torque and horses but i get it now thanks 🙃

[@joaosantos9805]

0:05 WHAT THE FUCK IS A 1 POUND-FEET????

[@theo_7212]

One thing I was hoping you would have considered, is using a cvt transmission. In this case the high hp car would have definitely won, since it would be always delivering it's high peak power.

[@mociczyczki]

yea even wothout cvt ot wpuld win with perfect gearing for both 👌🏻

[@sebulbathx]

Very interesting! In this day and age with diesel being very common everyone I know talks about how fast their car is but I guess that is more due to the diesel feels faster thanks to the torque in the low RPMs so it pulls harder more direct than gasoline car equivalent. But also finally as video that explains torque and horsepower in a simple and understandable way, awesome.

[@oxman7]

Would have been interesting to see you take much more of that wheel spin out. You could also say, Torque is the energy per rotation, and power is the energy per second.

[@the12345marko]

No.

[@oxman7]

@@the12345marko Yes.

[@the12345marko]

I know what you mean, but just look some more videos what torque, power and energy are. Have a nice day :)

[@BlackNook]

dudes speaking like he doesnt wanna wake up his wife lmfao

[@ThinkingBetter]

Horsepower is a UNIT of power (energy per time). The SI unit of power is Watt (1 Joule per second). One Horsepower is 745.7 Watts. The SI unit for torque is Nm (Newton meter). With SI units you avoid those weird conversion numbers and Power = torque * rotational speed, with rotational speed in radians/second. Sadly America is stuck with outdated units causing much confusion.