Who's Responsible for the Chess Boom? | Dojo Talks

[@IB4theAIB]

The chess boom really started with the London 1851 international tournament organised by Mr Staunton

[@chesscomdpruess]

lol

[@DPHX322]

I started casually playing chess since corona startet, then got really hooked when the show Queens Gambit released. What really surprised me is how good the content about chess is. There are so many good streamers and youtuber out there in the chess community, that it never gets boring!

[@stuartcarden1371]

It was Niemann for me. I played a fair bit as a kid but largely left chess behind until the scandal blew up and I remembered how intense and exciting chess was.

[@travistucker4067]

I'm so glad I found this channel. Much love and respect for everyone in Chess Dojo!🔥

[@x13rads]

For me it was Queens Gambit, which had reminded me of learning to play after seeing Searching for Bobby Fischer when I was a teenager. Now I am teaching my 2 boys how to play(which we already played board games together anyways). Side note* Streaming has changed how we consume media. I only watched Queens Gambit last summer.

[@bluefin.64]

As Jess touched on, the image of chess has changed dramatically. It used to be about nerds and watching paint dry, and now it's cool and fun. Image is everything when it comes to popularity. The recent boom is probably just following a typical exponential growth curve, sparked by this new image.

[@haydenn680]

Omg, the Chess Von Doom breaking 1000 line is HILARIOUS. I root for that guy EVERY DAY

[@timothyryan3031]

I think GothamChess deserves a lot of credit for packaging chess as something incredibly entertaining that the sports bro crowd can dig, especially when chess had such a reputation for being boring (it isn't, obviously, but that was the perception). Levy gets excited recapping a chess game like he was a basketball announcer, and his personality did a LOT to sell chess to a new generation. I can't credit him enough for revitalizing the game.

[@bluefin.64]

I also think Levy more than any other personality has helped chess grow, probably by far, and along the way it's made him a millionaire. Who ever heard of millionaire chess professionals before, except for world champions? I prefer other creators, like the Dojo sensei, but I have to acknowledge his amazing talent.

[@timothyryan3031]

@@bluefin.64 Yup. Not even the professional chess players are making that kind of money just off of their playing, unless they're in the world top 10 (and even then, maybe not). If anyone has made bank off of the chess boom it's Levy.

[@Ventcis]

Levy is like a starting point but there are so many other guys on YT who are very unique in their own way to promote the chess… Like the DojoChess guys.

[@jackstenglein8721]

David’s comments about changing the stockfish icon remind me of other sports that re-release the same video games over and over with minor cosmetic changes. Every year, the new FIFA or NBA 2K game drops and it’s exactly the same as the previous year, and every year they make ridiculous amounts of money.

[@laszlo3832]

Will pop in and say I'm consistently appreciative of Pruess's approach to the game and he's a large reason why I watch these videos. Keep being a sour hater 👍ignore the sour haters in the comments section

[@mcc.o.4835]

Our community has recently sprung up lots of chess clubs. In fact I'm going to one of them this week to play and hangout.

[@ChessGainz]

David's takes were next level in this one 🤣

[@lulairenoroub3869]

Next level awful? Like, he's a next level weirdo jerk?

[@MarcFromBerryland]

Right now I'm only 3 minutes into this video so I don't know if I will hear you mention this or not but I think we have to give a big chunk of the credit for this current Chess boom to Hans.

[@medhanshkaushik383]

I got into chess because of agadmator. His videos never taught me any new concepts just by watching some videos unlike gothamchess but, his channel is only about good games of the masters. For me, the beautiful games were a bigger attraction then lets say, guess the elo or speedruns though both are in no way any worse.

[@medhanshkaushik383]

I also preffered reading stories of fischer over watching queens gambit because fischer has much more games and has more losses so he doesn't set an improbable target of 2/3 losses like Harmon.

[@cftpafan]

I watched the Queen’s Gambit in January 2021 and got super inspired, then stumbled across gothamchess when trying to understand the opening and game principles and the rest is history.

[@archiewoosung5062]

Comedy or tragedy?

[@jamesknapp64]

I do think the short videos, like a lot of what Levy does applies to what I'll call the "Casual fan". You guys are devoted fans and want the deep stuff. But the Agadmator videos and many of Levy's are just fun to enjoy for the "Casual fan". I do agree with what David said about the algorithms. Short videos have been heavily pushed by KZbin and other social media and a lot of chess content can feed well into that short video mode. The other board "Go" I think requires more game knowledge to understand, thus Chess plays 'better' for the casual fan. Though worldwide "Go" is way more popular still and may always be.

[@daantenbroek2734]

It's probably all the points mentioned together and they reinforce eachother too. ok some probably contribute a lot more than others, but still. One thing that was slightly hinted at but not specifically mentioned is that there is nowadays more than ever an enormous amount of free content available for people that want to improve their chess. You guys are a part of that. For me personally I was always a little bit interested in chess, as a kid in the 70s and 80s, and later OTB at university and online at yahoo but every time after a short while of playing I felt I did not get anywhere. A couple of years back youtube offered some chess videos in my feed. This time what made me stay playing was all these videos like yours.

[@Nemtomi]

Gotta say I'm loving Jesse's brick wall.

[@frankbee2657]

I think that the pandemic coupled with things like The Queens gambit and streamers offering content to a wide range of audience is what got people interested again. But with only those things, most people would play for a while and leave chess after some time. The new tools (evaluation bar and analysis) and free learning content available is what makes people stay and want to keep playing.

[@AdamGaffney96]

I think the Hans Neimann thing should get credit but not necessarily for a mix of a couple of their given reasons. This hit mainstream news, and what did you see there? Two young guys (Magnus might be chess old but he's still young in the scope of things) that are witty and sometimes controversial, playing chess. I do not like Hans Neimann as a person, really at all, however that angry, hyper-confident young guy persona appeals to a lot of people, and definitely gives the image of chess being a cool game. I'd be interested to know the age brackets of these new users, as I wouldn't be surprised if it averaged out to 15-25 as the majority sign-up. I think that gives a big chunk as well. I also think that David may have a slight misunderstanding of how the algorithms do work, however he's definitely correct in his reasoning that at the moment, the KZbin and TikTok algorithms prioritise time on platform. And short form, exciting content keeps people on platform, and bullet chess, immediate blunders etc are PERFECT for this. Especially Levy having his yelling catchphrase of a sacrifice for example, that immediately gets captured by the algorithm as something that excites people in a short period of time. The algorithm is essentially a box into which they put their desires, and the box figures out how best to do that. So with the current trend of "short videos that keep people on platform", modern online chess perfectly fits that, and as such the algorithms have seen that and picked it up.

[@NotQuiteFirst]

Wow I just had a look at Social Blade analytics. There's a massive uptick in channels like Gotham, Botez, Hikaru, Anna Cramling in the past couple of months, but other channels like Eric Rosen, Naroditsky, and even Agadmator are flat over the past two months with no boom in subs/views. It seems the more sensational/entertainment based content is what is booming with viewers.

[@chesscomdpruess]

Yep!

[@rollingrockink1]

The proliferation of chess through social media since covid (streamers) is the reason.

[@ordro107]

The bottom line reason for the recent booms is the smartphone. Gaming in general has been growing for a couple of decades and there was a void to be filled for something that’s as addictive as candy crush but as intellectually engaging as a religion, art, science, maybe more accessible than these mentioned.

[@helloagain4546]

100%. I can add there's a wider issue with people looking for something to fill in their dead time (train ride etc).. people can't be alone with themselves anymore... And then after you get tired of losing in 10 moves eventually the mindless gaming culture meets the "How to..." youtube culture in which anyone can learn a program, a musical instrument, or whatever in 5 minutes on KZbin... So I think it's a Gaming meets KZbin Tutorial culture and the addictive nature of both create some kind of loop or reaction or something that draws people in. Suddenly your elo is like 900 and decide to become a bit more serious... start spending actual time on it, it starts going above other things in your priorities before you know it you are 1600... etc...

[@chesscomdpruess]

@@helloagain4546 + @OrDro thanks for sharing! Very interesting ideas.

[@kylen6430]

“We can have stupid chess now, and everyone says yes” This reminds me of wordle. The game went viral, everyone was playing…but it wasn’t even a very difficult game.

[@TheChessNeck]

I got into it 2019 because I randomly stumbled upon a really cool Magnus Carlsen documentary.

[@blackman7186]

For me it was Samay Raina. His content made me realise that chess can be so much fun not only to just play but to watch as well.

[@jackm4457]

I want to address one point made by IM Pruess.... that the algorithm attracts those that want their chess in 30 seconds or less via shorts. It's a good point, but I'm reminded of the Russian Proverb that says "Chess is an ocean in which a gnat can drink and and elephant may bathe." Much of this chess boom is due to the swarm of gnats, and many of them will lose interest in a short time. But how many become elephants? The challenge to longer-form, more instructional videos, like yours, is to capture and nurture those who come to chess for the Kitty on Mittens but who stay for the long haul. You will never get the 3.2 million subscribers that Levy now has, but if you eventually capture 1 out of 10, you will be golden. So my advice to David is not to swat at the gnats too hard.

[@chesscomdpruess]

Thanks, Jack. Your point is both interesting and useful. I will keep my diss tracks private.

[@jackm4457]

@@chesscomdpruess I appreciate your "diss tracks" I'm even more old-school than you. I joined the USCF in the 60's as a kid, and now recently retired and aiming to regain my (long-lost) 2000+ rating from decades ago. It's just that maybe what Chess needs to become huge is more casual fans, just as I watch football and criticize players' performances even if I know a tiny fraction about the game as those I am criticizing. Maybe it's okay if a 500 player thinks Magnus "choked" if he loses that one game out of ten played. The #1 reason the Fischer boom receded was that in the 70s, to be part of the "chess world" required a committment that few could make. I remember going to tournaments in 1973 where novices would enter the top section convinced that they had a chance to win it all. I remember beating a player in his very first rated game in 6 moves (the Petroff Defence where he loses his Queen) and having him leave the tournament hall, his board, his pieces and his clock... and never return. So Mittens and Botez Sister Gambits and Guess the Elo, however nonsensical, serve as a way to keep the casual enthusiast in the culture. Chess always has had the elephants, but not enough gnats.

[@asaskald]

I've had a lifelong love for Chess. I got back into it from an Anna Cramling video where she played against a hustler. It just blossomed from there.

[@superrotomas]

I think you guys completely missed the one person most responsible. I saw her mentioned before but Ana Cramling is probably responsible for a huge amount of the boom. She’s so wholesome that I want to go volunteer at my local soup kitchen after every video she posts. After the last few years where we lost our humanity she is a breath of fresh air after being nearly drowned in the ocean.

[@ChessDojo]

Yes, she is great! We mentioned the effect of streamers 😊

[@sekisc]

I think it is a lot about exposure and non-chess reasons, because chess has always been awesome. I think in my youth, many associated this game with some old dudes and thought it is lame, but know that you see it a lot in social media from another perspective, many young people come into the scene with an entirely different view. Chess is awesome after all, and there are many different ways to enjoy it

[@thechesslobster2768]

I love David Pruess feeling like Kotsya was @ing him hahahha. David was popping off now.

[@leo-um6yt]

Yay! Another Dojo talks! Smash the like button

[@connormonday]

It kept being brought up that chess had this baggage of being “elitist” or “intellectual.” I’m an orchestral musician, and I’m constantly surrounded by people in administrative roles who are trying to tackle making classical music less “elitist” and “intellectual.” I feel the same disgust toward most of those efforts that I gathered David feels toward cheap chess content. Why is something being intellectually rigorous a bad thing? I’m so disturbed by the TikTokification of our culture, and the apparent lack of deep thinking in any of our leisure/recreation. Things that demand your focus and concentration like an hour long symphony or a long classical chess game are where you can find genuine beauty, rather than a banal pop song or a TikTok of someone blundering in a bullet game. That’s more like being hooked up to a dopamine IV. If you try to make chess more like candy crush, are you really growing chess? If you’re trying to make orchestral music more like pop music, what are you preserving, exactly?

[@rprose]

dojo talks bingo card: "imma let you finish"

[@lorenzomizushal3980]

Chess, once you get to the top level, is all about pattern recognition and memorization more than creativity. At least that's what one of the greatest Chess legends said. As for mere mortals who play in the freetime it's still demands a certain level of creativity. Probably

[@alsatusmd1A13]

If you want to be pedantic/technical, ultimate responsibility for the Chess boom goes back before anyone living today (or even their parents) was born, to the early 19th century, and the finalization of standard rules for playing in most of Europe.

[@NapoleonGARDENINGTV]

Of course, with the help of the streamers too...Gotham, GJ, Kaspa, Byaherong ChessCoach, IM Roderick Nava, Soy Decse? , Chess Talk, DUJ Chess, and Chess Vibes, FM William Graif and of course Chess Dojo ...

[@vassiliosavlonitis5813]

Social media / KZbin / Choice have a big part in this boom. Cool young boys and girls playing chess on Twitch have inspired youngsters more than the old legends in their suits and ties would.

[@chessisbest]

its Gotham 100%. I know so many kids who are new to chess and getting really into it because of Gotham. It's because he makes it entertaining and exciting. I haven't seen any other creators do it like him and it broke into the mainstream... perfect for teenagers especially.

[@scottmcmanus1453]

This trend is also happening against a backdrop of broader trend of increasing board game popularity. US board game sales revenue has roughly tripled since 2017. This might make chess feel more accessible to people than in the past, they can view chess as a board game that is fun, not an esoteric intellectual exercise that is effort.

[@chesscomdpruess]

Cool, did not know about the larger-scale board game boom. That's really good to know!

[@rainerausdemspring3584]

@Jesse: There is a video game that is extremely difficult, has real depth and has a small group of fans: DROD. In my opinion this is by far the greatest "video game" of all times. Unfortunately I had to stop playing it when I had serious health problems.

[@shouldersofgiants4649]

Enough with the fake modesty, Jesse's infectious enthusiasm is the real reason! :)

[@anaddictwithapen8537]

The funniest thing about this is david not knowing who ronaldo is

[@CoryDAnimates]

ASMR Chess got me into chess.

[@jakubrogacz6829]

One Night in Bangkok ;) though honestly chess is so popular you can find public playing boards in parks here since ever so ...

[@rentsy3444]

17:00 David P if people will click on it and watch it through, then "the algorithm" rewards that.

[@morphykg1503]

Dopamine and algorithms: Name a more iconic duo

[@frequensea9434]

It was me. Everything I get into gets popular.

[@lrdmiddlefinger]

There’s a boom? It’s almost non existent in NZ where I’m from.

[@diego0014]

The only thing booming in New Zealand is doomsday bunkers

[@HumanistAtheist]

... and then it just becomes an industry of cool. The cool kids will take it and destroy it and leave us in their wake when they move on to the next thing. -- Lester Bangs (paraphrased)

[@aljamalk]

lol, it was so funny. And revealing...

[@Nemtomi]

PLEASE dress up as Danny Rensch, David! 100.000 more subscribers to the live channel. You could do 10 shorts from that video!

[@francoispitre6292]

Yes the algorithm help , but i have always feel chess was badly marketed for decades.

[@johanvanaelst8976]

Do an experiment: make a 1 minute video where Jesse wears a chicken suit while explaining the scholar's mate. Add some giggling and maybe yell CHECKMAAAAAATE. I bet you'll get millions of views and likes.

[@ultrafly100]

I watched an old video breaking down the King’s Gambit, and it instantly made me want to take the game seriously again.

[@NoOne-so7jt]

29:03 David called Alexandra Botez a nobody 💀

[@nth7273]

And he doesn't know who Ronaldo is.

[@chesscomdpruess]

It's badly worded in the moment. Nobody is a nobody, and certainly not based on what their elo is, which does not measure worth as a person. What I wanted to point out is that the headline or tagline makes no sense. Magnus would dominate anyone under 2700, to such an obvious extent, that it doesn't make sense to play each other or to talk about "humiliation." If I lost a pushing contest to a train I would not be humiliated, and if a 1000 lost a game to me, they wouldn't be humiliated. I absolutely could not figure out the word for what I wanted to say, but hopefully that's clarified it. The concept of a Magnus-Botez match makes no sense, and I don't see how humiliation or ruthlessness could come into it, hence the video's title is trashy sensationalism.

[@PepperChess]

I hear there is this PepperChess monster that caused the boom

[@charleskiesling9774]

You can cry scream and piss your pants all you want but the truth is simple: I am the chess boom

[@mustafaadil4165]

in noisy world it is the place where you come for some quality of talk

[@NapoleonGARDENINGTV]

Ang hirap ng mga paliwanag nila...PAREH NAMAN ! PERO naman...Some of the ideas have their points.

[@shawnpealer1383]

Chessmaster!

[@TheBigGuppy]

The boom doesn’t feel as big as the Fischer Boom to me. The Fischer games were covered on the national nightly news. Bobby was on prime time national syndicated talk shows. But I’m probably biased because I started playing in 72.

[@bluefin.64]

The difference is that coverage was about Cold War era Russia vs America, and today's boom is about the game. Having said that, it's too bad Hikaru didn't make it to the final. The echo of 1972 would have gotten some general media interest, and been good for the game.

[@fundhund62]

The difference is that in 1972 chess was frontpage news and everyman's talk on the streets. Today it's still very much a fringe sport for a select few, even if some online services explode. And when examining those numbers, don't forget India where they have an actual chess boom, like the west had around the time of the Reykjavik match.

[@AntonStachSZN]

without watching I would say streamers like Hikaru and GothamChess which made it more interesting to watch for the mainstream, probably the tiktok/instagram algorithm is helping a lot too

[@zah936]

Queen's Gambit, lockdown

[@NotAllWhoWanderAreLost641]

Two things- I think chess boomed because of the times we live in politically beginning with the C-19 boom. Chess offers clear rules and rewards the faithful. Nowadays you can't trust what media says as they are all politically based, and everything is spun as such to benefit the proposed narrative. Chess offers sanity, having control of your own destiny, and a reprieve from modern day society. Chess is offering an escape to many who need it these days. Secondly, just give me GM Kraai yelling at Kosty/the millennials and I'm happy. I'm a simple man.

[@chesscomdpruess]

Haha, I see you, simple man. Glad we could share Jesse with you :)

[@NotAllWhoWanderAreLost641]

@@chesscomdpruess We need a Jesse attacking millennials compilation. Gotta add when Kostya says that he thought the world championship match wasn’t a big a deal as what Jesse was saying. The part where Kostya said he was a fan of the champion, not the system. Man, that was my nirvana.

[@ultrafly100]

I will admit that I like the fact that chess has a consistent rating system that you can use to measure your improvement and calibrate your training. It gives me something to aim for.

[@isaakvandaalen3899]

Personally it was Pogchamps, but in general the last two years or so have seen massive growth of Chess especially online. I don't think it's possible to attribute this entirely to a single entity, but rather more likely it's a combination of increasing popularity and quality of chess streaming / content combined with real-world events like Queen's Gambit / the Cheating Scandal that increased the general public's awareness of and interest in the game, allowing these online sources to really capitalise on that growing interest and grow extremely quickly.

[@shawnburnham1]

3:00

[@3sticksillustration]

Personally I think it’s really fun to play the monthly bots.

[@SkankHunt-iy1ec]

Andrew Tate was the reason for me

[@unstable_7071]

90% levy rosman

[@TheBigGuppy]

Do that many people really watch Netflix?

[@scottmcmanus1453]

It's not a good idea to try to be the gatekeeper of the culture of any community, chess included. The game doesn't belong to any of us.

[@chesscomdpruess]

I don't think gatekeeping was a subject of this video? The gates are wide open, and if anything we are discussing how they were opened.

[@scottmcmanus1453]

@@chesscomdpruess Hi David, my apologies I didn't mean that in a controversial or confrontational way. With respect to the superficial elements of the chess boom, my inclination is to just let people enjoy chess whatever way they want to enjoy chess. I enjoy tactics at my level, masters like you and Kostya would appreciate more advanced aspects of positional play, and some people are going to enjoy silly videos of Magnus raising an eyebrow. I think these are all acceptable ways for people to experience chess. I also appreciate and respect other views.

[@chesscomdpruess]

​@@scottmcmanus1453 No problem, that makes sense! For some reason, I worried that you thought something we said was gatekeeping. :-P More interestingly, I appreciate your inclination to let people enjoy chess however they want. At the same time, as participants in a community, we each have things we love about it that we want to promote or share. So concretely, I wouldn't stop anyone from playing bullet chess, but I would tell people to try classical, brick+mortar chess clubs, and OTB tournaments; and I would try to tell stories and show games that might incite people to do so. I would even go so far-- rightly or wrongly-- as to occasionally talk smack about elements of the community I disagree with, e.g. I don't like the chesscom playmagnus merger, I wish there were less top events played at rapid time controls, and prefer if they tried classical chess960.

[@scottmcmanus1453]

@@chesscomdpruess Totally makes sense. One thing I have learned from other communities is that when people passionately advocate for the parts of a community that they personally love, that can sometimes be misconstrued by other people in the community with different tastes that you are trying to exclude them. With the way that social media efficiently divides people into camps, I try to be extra sensitive about this stuff. I want everyone to feel welcome in my camp, even if we don't agree on everything.

[@chesscomdpruess]

@@scottmcmanus1453 That's very sensitive/astute.

[@christopheralbert1321]

women players are an important factor too.

[@Ab-cj6gl]

I got into chess because of Gotham chess

[@SerLaama]

Lots of people are looking into chess. Gotham is - sadly, seeing how little integrity he has - just the first thing to come up on KZbin when you look for "chess". If it wasn't for him or Naka, it'd be Danya or Rosen.

[@jjmcn8377]

How does Levy not have integrity? And if you’re going to say clickbait then I have some news to tell you about how the algorithm works and how him becoming the number one chess youtuber isn’t luck…

[@paullebon323]

Two people. Beth Harmon & Levy.

[@duncanapiyo6412]

It's the Christ!

[@juhonieminen4219]

David is bit too rational in his take, but at the same time he hits the jackpot: many propable reasons are stupid. Chess is popular because of mostly random, dumb reasons like Messi & Ronaldo, or beads in the butt. Maybe it was just time to get lucky, or maybe chess is fundamentally so good game that it bounces back for any reasons, dumb or not.

[@ultrafly100]

Exposing people to the game is probably enough to make many want to play it.

[@Viraj_Soni]

David Pruess doesn't know a guy who has 560 Million Followers just on Instagram?? WHAT!

[@chesscomdpruess]

I dont even know what Instagram is!

[@Viraj_Soni]

@@chesscomdpruess Hehe Nice, because an IM doesn't have much time except for Chess! Cheers.😇

[@RogueTheology]

Sry not sry

[@brookie5594]

Hans and Andrew Tate for me and all of my friends.

[@odysseas573]

David is 90 year old trapped in a middle-aged man's body

[@siddharthb2633]

David has interesting insights, big companies should hire him and do the exact opposite of what he says to reach the most optimal results. Never seen a guy so consistent at missing the point.

[@chesscomdpruess]

Big companies are already reaching the most un-optimal results, couldn't really do any worse.

[@musicalneptunian]

🧤🧤🧤😻😻😻 MITTENS started the chess 💥💥💥 Unless you feed 😻😻😻MITTENS some of the best 🐟🐠🐟🐠 your chess 💥💥💥 will go ⤵⤵⤵⤵soon.

[@rev6v769]

Andrew Tate is a big influence on the little boys sadly

[@NotAllWhoWanderAreLost641]

RIP the top G

[@lukeanthony2992]

Agreed..timing is about right

[@robertolender2491]

This chanel would be so popular if it wasn't for David Pruess. His takes are unbearable.

[@chesscomdpruess]

I took a 3 month paternity leave, and the algorithm did not suddenly shine upon us. Seriously though, I'm sorry my opinions upset you; my intention was only to foster thoughtfulness.

[@Archminister69]

I got back becuz of tate

[@unstable_7071]

this david guy has really out of touch takes

[@lulairenoroub3869]

Well. Here was a conversation between two reasonable people, and a weird, angry dude seemingly unaware that he's having a completely different conversation off to the side on his own. I've not heard of David before this video, but I can safely say, he's a nob.