who's to blame for the PIN incident?

[@tijmendr9006]

Really weird that no one thought to themselves, huh maybe we should tell her she finished the race and won??

[@MrVsGarage]

it is really weird tbf particularly if your driver wins! I've seen people saying her mic was broken but can't confirm

[@TheRealGirlWeeb]

@@MrVsGaragefrom what i heard, the team had left their stations and were celebrating among themselves. and apparently she did ask over the radio how many laps were left. i agree that it's not the team's job to tell her the race is over, but i also don't think they're entirely without blame here.

[@BDSFormula1]

​@@TheRealGirlWeebyeah they left station Doriane was in the zone, constantly asking "is it the last lap"

[@GloomGaiGar]

@@TheRealGirlWeeb Telling your driver the race is done may not be required but it is SOP for all race engineers iirc.

[@privateinformation2960]

i didnt realise having to tell a racing driver what white flag and chequered flag mean was a thing.

[@TypicallyThomas]

The flag wasn't waved correctly, either. The panel wouldn't have been as much in the way if they waved the flag correctly. This is why I am a big opponent to letting VIPs wave the flag. It's the most important flag. We wouldn't let VIPs wave yellow or red flags, so why are they allowed to wave a chequered flag?

[@donbert]

Not disagreeing, but just curious. Who did wave the flag? Never seen any coverage of who’s waving flags for the support races.

[@MrVsGarage]

"Aseel Al-Hamad, Board Member of the Saudi Arabian Motor Federation" was credited as the flag waver. It showed them on the coverage at the start of lap 13

[@MrVsGarage]

It looks like they don't train them at all, obviously they should spend 5 minutes with a marshall who checks they do it right, but I get the feeling F1 isn't going to say no to people with wallets...

[@cdeppracing216]

Red Flag is arguably more important

[@TypicallyThomas]

@@cdeppracing216 When it's required, yes. But the chequered flag is always required

[@thevoid7480]

The team not congratulating her is an absolute dick move. The Flag was not waved correctly when she passed. It's an F4 learner series. The whole race was full of little and big mistakes by the drivers, with half of the mistakes not penalised. You have a race engineer for a reason, and you have to trust that person to the core. Absolute unprofessional dick mive from the team

[@MrVsGarage]

Defintely unprofessional by them to not even try and say "well done" (maybe they tried but if you don't get an answer then... try again?)

[@101jir]

Was it mean-spirited or incompetence I wonder? Perhaps something went wrong with the lap count on her team's side and the engineer also thought the race was still on.

[@thevoid7480]

@@101jir Her Team was actually celebrating, and the first Reaction of her Race Engineer when he realised was: "What are you doing?". So even when they noticed that they had messed up, they acted as if it was her mistake.

[@haphaeu]

Not sure if it was dick-ness, or just silly-ness ... but totally team error as well. TV was showing them all celebrating and hugging while the girl was still flooring at 250km/h on the track.... 1 minute later, "Dori what are you doing?" ... she should have seen the flag yes, but for various reasons she didn't and was right in responding "you didn't tell me!"

[@BunchOfOats]

I do think that the team has to bear a bit of blame for this. In the broadcast, they showed Pin asking the team if the race was over and she didn't get a response because everyone was celebrating so she assumed that it was the final lap. I get that the teams can just not tell the driver things but in this situation, if Pin was told that the race was over, she most definitely would have slowed down.

[@MrVsGarage]

yes true, my viewpoint was that while this would have solved it, they shouldn't have to. I do agree though it's pretty weird to not want to congratulate your driver on the radio

[@BunchOfOats]

@@MrVsGarage that's a fair point too. A driver not being able to see the checkered flag is still not good regardless of what the team did.

[@fist003]

yeah, they could communicated that this the final lap; ie one last lap to do. also should have congratulated her on crossing the finishing line.

[@garyrowe58]

​@MrVsGarage I think that the OP was referring to the team not responding to her question

[@BunchOfOats]

@@garyrowe58 He was saying that the team shouldn't have had to tell her that the race was over. also i'm op hi

[@mickcompagnoni1114]

I too noticed the flag was behind the screen. I also noticed the "Celebrity Flag Waver" barely wriggle the flag at her waist height, when the official FIA flag waver stretched out & down (probably so the drivers could actually see the flag under the flashy light board thing), so the FIA obviously knew about the problem. Therefore, I am of the opinion that Dorianne Pin was ripped off, dealt with very harshly, & is owed a race win & an apology by the FIA.

[@jeffstaples347]

I'm really glad you covered this. What a travesty to lose so many grid places after a win.

[@MrVsGarage]

Yeah, just so far away from fair that I had to talk about it

[@josephbargo5024]

It’s not going to alter the final season results, but the perfect season possibly is gone.. However looking at it from the stewards position, looking at the flags is the first thing you are taught on your first track day. I wish this was more of reprimand vs grid penalty. Or at worst, it should be a grid penalty for next race since it was technically a post race infraction.

[@joshshultz1250]

@@josephbargo5024 Maybe the stewards should have idk... waved the flag in a place the driver could see?

[@josephbargo5024]

@@joshshultz1250they waived it, just didn’t do a great job.. but yeah that should be taken into consideration

[@AtlasBRR_mp4]

Penalty was 100% deserved

[@TommoMcCluskey]

Missed "PINcident" opportunity

[@MrVsGarage]

take your puns and clear off

[@adenkyramud5005]

You know where the door is tommo...😂😂😂😂😂

[@mutleyomuttlesson2799]

I'm not sure "pantsident" sounds quite right. That's a whole other issue.

[@motta9784]

If you watch footage of f1 race finishes from around 2016 they used to display a checkered flag on the light board on the gantry above the finish line. The 2016 Spanish gp finish is what springs to mind as a good example

[@SouthCoastLevelCrossings34]

I think if I remember correctly, for 2019 a chequered light panel was *the* official signal showing the end of the race, not the flag itself. It reverted back to the flag in 2020

[@BuffaloWarrior7]

It's so weird re-watching Max's first win in 2024. "And now, for the first time the Dutch National anthem".

[@lck0ut348]

FIA be like: *driver overtakes off track* - I sleep, 10s penalty within a few laps *driver cannot see the checkered flag* - real shit? 20s hours after the race is over

[@AtlasBRR_mp4]

Penalty was 100% deserved

[@stankewrx]

@@AtlasBRR_mp4 ik this is 5 months old but this is a terrible take

[@satanswolf]

To answer your question, her race engineer. Should have said checkered flag instead of cheering and asking what are you doing and the race director to not use the board.

[@Peterraawwrr]

I heard on the Sky Sports coverage that there may have been some sort of comms problem.

[@satanswolf]

@@Peterraawwrr I have watched the race, yes they some radio issues but at the flag the all pit crew took off the headphones and at the extra lap the team asks what she is doing and she angrily says "you didn't tell me" and the dude apologises to her.

[@Heksu99]

It's always drivers fault if they fail to see a flag. Driver can't rely on the radio as it can be broken. Thus it's drivers fault.

[@satanswolf]

@@Heksu99Drivers drive, the pit crew give the info to the driver. She has no fault.

[@Nearthel]

@@Heksu99 So driver's fault because she lacks the X-ray vision required to see the flag behind a solid panel?

[@AlexSawer1]

Traditionally, at the end of a race yellow flags are waved by every marshal post after cars cross the chequered flag, signalling cars to slow. So it just gets rid of the uncertainty regarding this issue.

[@Sp4mMe]

Incidentally, there's another race just this season that has had something similar happen: IMSA 24h of Daytona. The flag was waved early (because the race start had been delayed; they just assumed it'd stop 24h on the dot, but they should have adjusted for an extra warm-up lap, so there technically was still a minute or so on the clock), and "to be safe", the Porsche drove an extra lap at full speed, taking the flag twice. This was done very deliberately and with everyone knowing that the driver had seen the flag first time around. No penalty.

[@wingracer1614]

Yeah but things are a little different with timed races. You can have circumstances where it's unclear if the leader is going to get to the line just before or just after time expires so it's kind of expected that if the race is close, you keep racing until it's declared official.

[@Oscar97o]

@@wingracer1614 Besides, it has nothing to do with the FIA.

[@FlyBoyGrounded]

Well that driver's a dick and should have been fined. The chequered flag means the race has finished regardless of how many laps or how much time has been completed or not. Total idiot with no understanding of the rules.

[@woopimagpie]

All the timed races I've seen have been the clock winds down to zero and then it's plus one lap next time over the start/finish line. No doubt the Porsche driver was applying this knowledge and making sure he didn't slow down a lap too soon. A sensible course of action given there was some confusion over when the "end" officially was.

[@Sp4mMe]

@@woopimagpie +1 lap is not at all a universal rule. It sometimes is (sometimes it's also more than +1!), but plenty of races just show the flag first time the leader comes by after the time has run out. Either way, flag counts, so it shouldn't matter. We can see this from results where it was waved too early; the flag is always what defines the end of the race.

[@Mr_Tovarish]

This was a very very very good video. Well researched, well crafted, and objective.

[@MrVsGarage]

thank you!!

[@Sam-dk7zl]

incredible and classic fia, but hey doriane was levels above the rest the entire weekend, this wont be much hindrance to her championship fight

[@MrVsGarage]

maybe it's all a conspiracy to make it more interesting?..

[@Sam-dk7zl]

@@MrVsGarage honestly wont be surprised

[@kanolightracer5]

2:46 If you know F1 history well, you know exactly what he talks about.

[@Mike.Mendes]

Absolute horror

[@redwine.99]

Tom Pryce?

[@MrVsGarage]

Sadly, when I worked in vehicle design I've seen more than just that 😔

[@shoey6123]

@@redwine.99 Needed eye bleach after seeing that the first time. A truly horrific crash

[@AnabolicRick915]

Yeah that one was brutal… another awful accident was the driver who went under a barrier and got decapitated with his headless body still buckled to the seat… absolutely horrific

[@samiraperi467]

Wait, she got a penalty for that?! That's BS.

[@LiftandCoa]

No? Thats rules. She also sped under red flags, which is an even worse offense but was ignored. THATS bs.

[@nathangamble125]

The penalty was not BS. Her team not telling her she'd finished was BS.

[@boahneelassmal]

@@nathangamble125 not having the checkered flag visible is BS. If the checkered Flag had been visible she would've had a chance to see it. This is a massive FIA L and now people just blame Pin for it. Yes the engineer could've said something and congratulated and point it out to her the race is over. He didn't though for whatever reason and given the ruleset doesn't state the driver needs to be told via team coms that the race is over there is no reason to blame them. The FIA is responsible for making sure all flags and flag boards are easily visible from the the track If they fail to do that they are a safety liability.

[@00wheelie00]

​@@nathangamble125 the penalty being applied to a race that was finished when she did it is BS. The 10 place grid penalty or a fine makes more sense.

[@MrChoklad]

​@@LiftandCoayeah i bet you'd have seen the checkered flag behind a giant black screen

[@johnbacon4997]

This is really wierd from a team point of view. Every single time I've won a team game, whether online or irl, I congratulate my teamamtes or say something to celebrate. But yet the race engineer is dead silent for when she wins a race? If mic isnt broken this is really odd behavior.

[@geoffreyporter6373]

What happened was that the entire race team took off their headsets to celebrate, complete stupidity.

[@MaxGrey03]

exactly and the rumor is that her mic was not working, we know that the engineers was working as he asked her what she was doing after she passed the checkered for the 2nd time.

[@drifter402]

No it isn't. You get out the car and that's when they do that. This is how it works in any motorsports without the radio

[@liamrobbins4470]

This is the best video I've seen on this topic. Now I'm a UK marshal who sometimes gets to wave the chequered flag. At my circuit we have the flag, a big board over the gantry, a repeated chequered flag and flag board at post 1. Before any activity happens each day the Chief Flag marshal and Clark of Course drive a slowish lap of the track with all posts waving yellow flags and board flashing yellow. To check they're happy with manning and that flags and boards can be clearly seen. No perfect as they're often in a normal car rather than low slung formula car, doing 40 rather than 200. Also Flag Marshals are encouraged to think like a driver when flying a flag and think where a driver will/won't see the flag when they wave it. With all that said every weekend at least 1 driver will miss the chequered flag. At my circuit the procedure is that the start line flag reports car 101 has taken the flag twice. Race control orders red flag immediately as car 101 has taken the flag twice. They also ask pit marshals to invite the driver to race control to see the Clark. When the driver goes up to race control the Clark asks them why they missed the flag. If they're contrite and say they lost track of lap number, didn't spot it for some reason, say sorry and promise to do better. They'll be sent on their way. If they come in spitting fire and saying its everyone else's fault, they're getting a penalty.

[@liamrobbins4470]

Also at chequered flag incident marshals will move a little away from their posts and wave to or applaud drivers to show the race has ended. Not as obvious as every post showing chequered but I've seen cars pull up when they see the waving marshals

[@MrVsGarage]

This is how I'd like things to be done. If the clark and driver can just talk and understand each other everything becomes a lot easier. Most people don't want to do anything wrong... obviously if something major goes wrong there should still be a punishment even if its unintentional so people learn, but in this case if someone is apologetic I don't see why they need to be penalised

[@scrooge201]

Good thing I don’t live in England and live in America where Motorsport is much better policed. If you don’t do your job correctly, yeah, I’m blaming you. What kinda long winded shit did you just type out. I don’t think you do anything in racing, I think you sit on your couch and type. I actually race in real life and have real world evidence on this topic and everything you said is a giant lie. F off

[@hawksite]

Having raced for 45 years in lower formulas (no radios, no electronic sign boards) it is possible to miss the flag, especially if racing with another car. The checkered flag in turn one, along with marshals waving at you is usually a safe sign that you missed the flag. Usually the embarrassment alone is enough that you only do it once. Here in the US we are introducing Flagtronics, an in car flagging system. However, actual flags, when used correctly, should be sufficient. The penalty should have been to work a corner for a race - and the penalty for the checkered flag waver the same😀.

[@infinitygears6388]

This is a really good view.. Thanks @liamrobbins4470

[@paulmckinstry6374]

Nice analysis! If I were her I'd definitely feel aggrieved over this. Seems like one of those perfect storm situations where every one of the potential mechanisms which could have prevented it happening totally failed to materialise.

[@MrVsGarage]

Things falls through the cracks some times, it happens. But if some of those cracks are caused by the organiser then it's unfair to punish the driver this much. Definitely aggravating!!

[@williamstrachan]

​@@MrVsGarageI watch a lot of aviation investigation type videos and they often mention the 'Swiss cheese' model, where you have a load of slices of Swiss cheese and sometimes you can see all the way through the holes and then an incident happens. This video really has a very similar tone to that genre and it's kept me glued, even though I don't really follow F1 at the moment (last time I did was when working for a composites company in the first turbo season, the things I saw there 😳)

[@Oblivion9873]

It was absolutely a problem she didn't slow down. We are lucky something really bad didn't happen. Blame is a harder call IMO. Feels like a situation where at the minimum no one is blameless

[@MrVsGarage]

The camera shot of Pulling standing on the grid with Pin driving in from behind made my butt clench. I know she hads been red flagged by then but imagine if she hadn't... 😬

[@kanolightracer5]

@@MrVsGarage lucky it wasn't F1 where the Marshalls run on track

[@wingracer1614]

@@kanolightracer5 They better not run on track the moment the leader crosses. The track is still live. The race doesn't end when the leader crosses the line, it ends when the last car on the lead lap crosses. If that last car was nearly a lap down, that's basically a full lap more of racing going on.

[@huehuehue7451]

​@@kanolightracer5or japan 2022 where gasly almost ran into one of the recovery crane vehicle that got ok track before everyone made it into the pit lane

[@tomi_ow]

I agree with the video. Officially speaking, it's the race organizers job to tell the drivers when the race is over. If they fail to this due to a badly placed light board or Tim Cook levels on flag waving, that's on them. The race organizers should take it seriously and assess where they messed up, but instead they are shifting the blame elsewhere. Regardless of the rules, this is dangerous and it should be brought up with the teams that they should make sure their drivers know when the race is over.

[@gregoryhouck5738]

Well, She's deifintely learning how F1 operates: the more F1 is at fault the harsher the penalty on the driver...

[@mattmanandeddie]

I've flagged many races, tradition for a cool down lap is for the other corner marshal to wave at the cars to say good job and slow down the race is over.

[@Marpurrsa]

imo the flag board thing should cover the first 3 boards from start/finish onwards still keeps the idea of having the flag near the finish but gives multiple opportunities for the drivers to notice the checkered flag

[@wutzitrone4522]

I don't even think we would need to add additional screens along the start finish straight the flag doesn't need to be exactly at the start finish line...

[@irrationalgeographic9953]

Drivers rarely actually see the flags and that is why light boards were put in and they also get a message on the steering wheel display. I am not sure if they have this on F2 but they do on F1, WEC and GT cars.

[@mastertrams]

Considering those cars move at 150+mph, I'm not surprised they don't see the flags. It's the same reason why high speed trains don't use line-side signals, instead relying on lights inside the cab...

[@irrationalgeographic9953]

@@mastertrams Many years ago they stopped using the pit boards they use to hang over the wall on the start / finish straight because when you are moving at 90 meters a second drivers had no chance seeing them although I do notice a pit board come out now and then and I suspect it may just be a push or hold message so they dont have to use the radio where the other teams and us can hear them.

[@adenkyramud5005]

​@@irrationalgeographic9953i believe pit boards are also still used to communicate if there are issues with the radio. For example if your driver can't hear you you use the boards to signal when he should pit. Not sure about that tho, i don't work in that field so i can't say for certain

[@Heksu99]

@@irrationalgeographic9953 they still use those, but the radio is two ways and the messages they need to give today are longer due the complexcity of the cars. Drivers do see the flag, people have good vision on moving objects.

[@irrationalgeographic9953]

@@Heksu99 The whole reason the electronic trackside flags were brought in and the following year the FIA making it mandatory for wheels to display flag status was because of the increasing complaint from drivers that they could not see trackside flags and the increasing number of rather scary incidents due to that fact. Granted at track like Monaco not seeing trackside flags are not a big issue due to slower speeds combined with marshal stations being prominent and close to the track.

[@GamingEntertainment12]

you didn‘t have to give me van Vuuren flashbacks. I was at the point of almost having forgotten this horrible footage and now it‘s back. Amazing video though, some important talking points in there and still extremely entertaining to watch. Big thumbs up 👍

[@MrVsGarage]

Thank you 🙌🙌 I'm always aiming to make it as entertaining as possible so good to know it's working

[@DrZaius3141]

Imagine having video evidence that exonerates you and you still get penalized...

[@MrVsGarage]

Don't have to imagine when the FIA is involved

[@BAndersen-ee1xy]

I was watching and am rather PO’ed that Doriane lost her victory in this way. One thing I don’t understand is why the LED boards,(I believe the board obscuring sight of the board), don’t show the checkered flag. They display electronically yellow flags, red flags, etc., so is it not possible to have them show the checkered flag around the circuit on the cool down lap? I think she should have her victory reinstated.

[@arwyss]

Good news is, she’s likely going to win every other race this season. She’s head and shoulders above the competition

[@MayBeSomething]

A lot of people are saying, "her team should've congratulated her." I didn't watch it, and I don't know what systems F1 Academy has in place, but it's possible that the team DID congratulate her, but a radio failure prevented her from hearing. A better argument is, "when the team got no response from the driver upon congratulating her, and when the car kept going at race speed, why didn't they try another channel?" NASCAR has multiple channels for their drivers. Maybe try that? It's not a diver's job to keep track of laps. It's a driver's job to race until the end. When that end is doesn't matter. She wasn't doing it maliciously, so don't penalize her with an in-race penalty. She didn't break a rule until AFTER the race ended. Don't penalize her with something that effects that race.

[@davefb]

stunned. I'd have expected that the 'showy' flag wave wasn't the ACTUAL flag wave, the actual one would be THE BIG SIGN. This feels like a 'should never happen' incident and not a blame the driver one at all.

[@evilution_ltd]

There's no way the radio was working as there's no way she'd have done 1.5 full laps without someone from the team getting on the radio and telling her.

[@Peterraawwrr]

I believe they have tried the light board flag idea but there was one race where it came on a lap early and therefore the result was taken from the previous lap from that, losing two laps of the race, sadly can't recall which but pretty sure it was in the last 10 years. I also think there may have been another case with some sort of technical glitch, after that they decided to go back to the traditional method. I totally agree though that there should be a light board, perhaps at the bottom of the grid/start finish straight with an 'isolated' flag board with one big button for when the race is over, leaving very little room for human error (FIA would probably still manage it though).

[@MrVsGarage]

just have it wired to a big red button in the flag booth and then you press it when you start to wave the flag?

[@dominicbarden4436]

I think that was Japan in 2019 if I remember right. The chequered flag was shown a lap early in China in 2014 as well.

[@Peterraawwrr]

@@MrVsGarage that would be ideal, but like I say FIA might still mess it up lol

[@wingracer1614]

@@Peterraawwrr The exact same thing has happened with just flags.

[@Heksu99]

Yeah, found it from F1's article "F1 RULES & REGULATIONS: What’s new for 2020?". They switched back to real flag. I just don't like that they have people who really don't seem to care about what they are doing and that they clearly don't get taught how to wave a flag.

[@wgolyoko]

About the team not getting on the radio but it "not mattering because it could be broken" : The thing is that if the radio isn't broken, Pin expects the team to come onto the radio. If it was broken sure, she's be looking out very attentively for flags, but if it's not she expects to be told anything of importance.

[@RedmondBarryII]

Man, I miss Charlie Whitting.

[@chrishavill6458]

Something to be said about having one guy run the show. Without him it takes a while to get back up to speed. He should've had an assistant at his side for years learning what they could about all aspects, ready to take over whenever needed.

[@listerstorm2009]

@@chrishavill6458 Funny you say that. They had one person assisting him and learning the ropes. His name? Michael Masi.

[@chrishavill6458]

@@listerstorm2009 guess they should have worked on finding someone competent then because man did he blow it

[@SamualRobotham-IWasOnlyKidding]

I’ve raced at several circuits where a second chequered flag was used further down the track. From memory silverstone old start finish straight did this.

[@killakanzgaming]

UK flag marshal here. That lightpanel is in such a stupid place, but then bad planning has been something of a running theme everywhere with lightpanels so it's not really surprising. Lightpanels should not be placed directly on the flag-marshal's position, for exactly this reason! They can block sight of the flag, which in nearly every case over-rides the light panel. Chequered flags have always been a bit of an issue, especially if the driver missed it for whatever reason. In just a few short years I've been to so many racing events where at least one driver hadn't noticed the race had finished, usually ones where there's no pit-to-driver radios. There's no way for marshals to really indicate to the driver that he's missed the chequered until race control orders out the red flag, we can't just wave the other colours randomly because that's mixed messaging, and the chequered flag is only issued to the start line with some rare exceptions where one is also issued to post 1. The rest of the posts never have one.

[@abdaf8706]

Quality analysis, mate! Great job!

[@MrVsGarage]

Thank you!

[@andydm007]

I remember in the 90s that the marshalls would wave all flags together at the same time after the final lap

[@Codi95]

The fact that what she have done is the same what Mahavear did in 2018 in F2 in Spain is so funny

[@MrVsGarage]

wait, he did it twice?

[@bernardkuiper1496]

@@MrVsGarage I mean, it IS Mahaveer...

[@kiririnbass2319]

I think what's missing from the cool down lap is Marshalls waving all the flag. that also will be a sign that the race is over.

[@MrVsGarage]

you have to be careful not to flag someone who is still driving. If the winner was just about to lap someone but didn't get them before the line, that person still has to drive the whole last lap

[@IPad-OG]

@@MrVsGarage And this is exactly why I think the safety part of the story “it’s dangerous to have a fast car… and people one the track” is not really a valid point if you want everyone to compleet the final lap. Why is her (nr 1) dangerous if it could just as well be someone she was about to overtake. So either it’s dangerous and all drivers should slow down (and you can display flags around the circuit) or, you can have one more fast lap without it being to dangerous, just like the one you where going to overtake on the finish line… (but just was a second to late)

[@MrVsGarage]

@@IPad-OG fair enough. I suppose it's a question of predictability, people to the side of the track are expecting the backmarkers to still be full pace but if they think the leader has slowed down but they haven't the confusion could have bad consequences. Also if people do more than 1 lap after the flag then it's definitely bad

[@testchannelpleaseignore2452]

Its on the pit wall and her engineer being sloppy. She should have realized the race was over but the pit wall shouldve made sure to tell her. I think people are use to f1 and dont realize how hard what she did was. She was in a car with very little grip and gave the pack a slip stream for most of the race. Plus their were like plus their were i think 14 million safety cars in that race i can totally see how she lost some sitautional awareness. Also apperently her race engineer is kind of a dick because if the commentators were to be believed everyone on the pit wall was celbrating, and no one thought to congratulate her?

[@nathanmarks6313]

Did the FIA provide a reason why yellow sectors were not applied after the chequered flag, like they do with other junior formula. The same track did use this system for the Formula 2 sprint race the previous day, so was there some reason this wasn't done for F1 Academy?

[@MrVsGarage]

the FIA isn't known for providing reasons for anything they do ;)

[@adrianmahadeo9134]

@@MrVsGarageFIA doesn’t run f1 academy so stewarding decisions may be different

[@tfolmer1234]

@@MrVsGarageSadly the FIA isn't know for HAVING reasons for anything they do...

[@adenkyramud5005]

First video of yours that i watched. Very good analysis. Also very pleasant to watch/listen. Got a new sub, keep up the good work mate

[@MrVsGarage]

thank you, means a lot!

[@cavemanindustries5102]

Same. I also subscribed

[@matthewmickles1997]

It happens quite a bit, just last weekend indycar st pete Scott Mclaughlin was hauling ass in to turn 1 after the race was over but the Crew informed him the race was over. To which his response was "not going to lie I didn't know that was the last lap"

[@marjabeverwijk5630]

It also happened before in F1 that the checkered flag was waved at the wrong time. Winnie Harlow, and also once during the Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka (2019), that the finish flag was waved on the wrong lap. And quite a few times that the VIPs (or actually the people who instruct them) flag one or more people/cars too late. It is understandable that it is a real and serious safety issue, but proven it is often not the incompetence or inattentiveness of the driver where the mistakes lie, so it can at least be called hypocritical that the penalty is imposed there (too harshly). I had heard about it, but hadn't seen it myself. thanks for the clear video on it.

[@DanielHarveyDyer]

I was thinking it was crazy that I hadn't heard about this incident but then I realized I hadn't heard about either of the opening two rounds of this championship at all at any point. So that's not really hitting the aims and objectives of the series if I forget it's even on. I like Dorien Pin, I am familiar with her from the WEC. Glad she's winning even if she isn't.

[@MrVsGarage]

Still still won at least 1 race this weekend! And yeah I know what you mean, for one of the biggest sports organisations in the world they really aren't great at advertising new things

[@DanielHarveyDyer]

@@MrVsGarage The lack of promotion of the feeder series in general is rubbish. At least the F1 KZbin channel does F2 highlights. But then on the other hand if you do get invested in who wins F2 there's no point because they don't make it to F1 unless they are already best mates with one of the manufacturers anyway.

[@irfonjones2942]

@@MrVsGarage I think this is on purpose so that they can kill it off after a few years under lack of popularity but they can say atleast they tried...

[@tangentfox4677]

Flags around the circuit could work if the flags are able to be sequenced. Have the flags only switch to checker after the last place driver passes. The gap between last and first is usually high enough for this to be effective, isn't it?

[@arwyss]

Really, the driver was the only person NOT at fault. Her team should have messaged her, & the FIA should have displayed the flag clearly.

[@refraggedbean]

very good breakdown and I actually came to a similar conclusion when I saw this incident, driver holds 0 blame for this IMO, as without the team or flag, its clearly from a driver perspective still full race conditions, having an entirely obscured flag is a race safety issue of its own and if anything whoever failed to make for a safe signaling setup should be punished for this incident instead, as clearly that is not sufficient for high level motorsport and honestly I wouldn't even trust that for MX5 cup cars

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

Seems pretty clear to me it was unintentional on her part. Couldn't see the flag due to obvious obstruction, backed by the onboard camera. The relative position of camera and head wouldn't make any difference. Don't forget they are wearing helmets, too! Already restricted visibility.

[@Dalemate33]

I love your portrayal of sarcasm, it made me giggle loudly more than once while watching this,

[@Zach636465]

Why weren't the corner workers waving all the flags? I thought that was an international thing. I've seen races end and every marshal/corner worker at every stand holding one of any of the flags and waving it in congratulations of the finishers. I think they even call it a "parade of flags" or something like that. That's pretty hard to miss, and they don't start it until the leader is approaching the corner, so none of the drivers ahead of the leader would be confused and slow down, but also it gives the driver a signal at every single corner that the race has ended. And it also avoids tweaking anyone's nose about there being more than one checkered flag. Regardless, as dangerous as doing extra laps is, what a garbage setup from the event putting that board in front of the flagstand, and how do they not presume any responsibility for such a stupid oversight?

[@nomarlebron8456]

great insight and a great video man! definitely got a new subscriber from this one, looking forward to more F1 incident breakdowns!

[@tom6493]

Same energy as road planners, putting warning signs at junctions, in places that OBSCURE ONCOMING TRAFFIC! 🤦‍♂️

[@leonn1196]

Great video and great presentation! Way nicer to listen to than most of your "competitor's" channels. Thank you very much! Edit: Also wanted to mention: Lewis Hamilton was crawling on an inlap during qualifying in Jeddah and Sargent nearly crashed. Obviously team's fault so the team got a 15.000 USD penalty. In this case the team should've been given a fine as well instead of the driver.

[@MrVsGarage]

thank you! There's space for lots of channels on youtube, I don't consider them competitors... This is the best one though ;)

[@vincenzomartino5648]

The return of the V

[@DAVE0DENIS01]

I was really expecting this to be said at 9:37 “however we as fans knew a 10+ place grid penalty for Raghunathan isn’t a penalty either” 😂😂

[@adenkyramud5005]

Do not disrespect lord mahaveer!!!😂😂

[@DAVE0DENIS01]

@@adenkyramud5005 I would never!!! 😂😂

[@valeriebumblebee7607]

I am so glad I watched this video. I had a very different opinion of her and am glad that I now know what really happened.

[@SPCleaver]

Great video with a lot of interesting thoughts & information. I like your idea of using the overhead gantry at the start/finish to display a Chequered Flag at the end of the race. Especially bearing in mind that the FINISH line is USUALLY BEFORE the START line, having the chequered flag waved at the finish line along with the display screen there showing a Chequered flag & then to make absolutely sure, show the Chequered flag AGAIN on the overhead screen at the START LINE, this would SURELY ensure that drivers COULDN'T realistically miss the end of the race.

[@vyomrathi]

My GOAT has posted again! ❤

[@MrVsGarage]

Videos coming at you thick and fast now!

[@fiskfisk33]

at the 1977 South African Grand Prix a marshall was hit by a car doing 270km/h They couldn't figure out who had died until they did a headcount to see who was missing...

[@fiskfisk33]

@RapidRacingLeagueOfiicialnot at all, it's quite disturbing, but demonstrates how serious incidents like this are.

[@chilledburrito]

Great video! I’ll be looking forward to seeing you around.

[@Wolfe_No.13]

From the viewpoint as a driver, i've definitely missed flags before, but she is not at fault here. I kind of put blame with her team here. congratulate her she just dominated the field, and F1 academy has better radios than anything i've heard or used in F4 or Formula Regional cars. Not many excuses here for both FIA/F1 and for Prema. the light box 100% needs to be moved as well. even a few feet back, AFTER the start finish line, especially since it should be behind the end of a sector anyways

[@BMC1100]

When Eastern Creek Raceway (now Sydney Motorsport Park) was built there was a lot of drivers missing flags from the gantry. Usually black flags but also chequered flags. Initially the blame was placed on the drivers, but when it became such a common event it was decided to have an extra flag point for the chequered flag near turn 1 and a second location for the black/meatball flag around the back of the track. All tracks should show a second chequered flag at the next flag point after the finish line.

[@ChoirFan1]

Why, in this technical age, are red, yellow, blue and black flags shown on the light panels all around the track, but the chequered flag is still waved in one spot that, in this case, is almost hidden?

[@NolanRempel]

It actually is an option on certain panel boards, it depends on the software being used. My local track uses boards similar to those, and we display the checkered flag on them during track days

[@dustinhill5661]

Remember when the Marshalls would wave all the flags at the end of the race as a parade for the winner? What is wrong with that.

[@NolanRempel]

It's actually not something that's common practice in a lot of places. At my club circuit, we almost never do 'monkey dances' as they're referred to as. It tends to only be something that's done for really big events like IMSA, WEC, F1, Indycar, ETC. Usually we just applaud the drivers or wave as they pass us by on the cooldown lap.

[@cleanculture8286]

Not the team's requirement, like you said, but if they weren't so busy celebrating, they would have seen Pin going full out on the monitors like everyone else did. Too concerned with celebrating instead of getting their driver back safe, hope they learn from this mistake as well

[@GuzziHeroV50]

Great video, the first I've seen from you. And an instant subscribe :)

[@DaveEd2499.]

There’s a big issues with 4 things The positioning of the chequered flag in Saudi Arabia. The complete lack of communication between her and her engineer. Her own poor comprehension of how the race ended with Pulling going from 9 tenths behind to being nonexistent. And finally the really poor stewarding to give that poor penalty hours after chequered flag.

[@wildmax_playz]

Ah yess, Another video forged to the brim with Quality and of course, the best F1 youtuber !

[@Dilandau3000]

I think the "checkered flag on every light board" solution could still work, you just don't turn them on all at once. You switch them on one-by-one, either just ahead of the finished lead driver, or just behind the last still racing driver. I guess it could still be an issue if the gap between the leader and the last non-lapped car in front is small, but that same issue exists with the real checkered flag (do they wait until the driver in last place passes to start waving? If so, how do they handle that if the lead driver is right behind, say

[@h-j.k.8971]

Hardly a driver out there that hasn´t overseen a flag at some time.

[@cameronwebster6866]

My question is, with the checkered flag being an important safety system, why is there no redundancy, such as multiple checkered flags? what happens if the waver drops it, or a wind gust pullst it paralel to the ground, or even out of the waver's hand?

[@Franky_M]

Excellent breakdown, thank you.

[@pueraeternus6520]

North American Motor Sports like Nascar and IndyCar wave a white flag on the last lap. This lets the drivers know the race is almost over.

[@20DYNAMITE06]

I believe the marshals also should have also waived a white flag as she entered her last lap? Though given that the view of that marshal is obstructed by the light board, I expect she wouldn't have been able to see that either. I feel like this is on the venue and the FIA primarily, and her team secondarily, but the punishment definitely doesn't fit the crime.

[@MrVsGarage]

They should but I don't know if they often do that at FIA events? I basically never see it

[@grello48]

White flags in FIA-sanctioned events indicate a slow-moving vehicle on track, like a tow truck/broken-down racecar. This isn't the case in other, non-FIA events, like IMSA, NASCAR, IndyCar etc.

[@MichielDijk93]

Marshal here (cars and bikes, including motogp and wsbk, though not F1 as of yet). White is only waved to inform the drivers that they are approaching a slow car. It gives information, not instruction, so it still allows for overtaking.

[@20DYNAMITE06]

I learned something new!

[@grello48]

@@20DYNAMITE06 and we're more than happy to let you know!

[@bloodspatteredguitar]

I don't know about the regulatory basis (or lack thereof) for the practice, but after F1 races, the marshals always come out and wave *every flag*, making it pretty clear that this is a neutralized circuit. There's only one checkered flag, but that seems like a reasonable signal to send around the track to indicate the end. As a bonus, it's quite fun!

[@CornFlakesPC]

Put some extra panels on the start/finish line and show the chequered flag or having a bridge with a big panel right over the finish line which shows a chequered flag. Having multiple visual signs to communicate that the race is over seems logical to me

[@seanpower660]

How can a drive-through be the punishment for an incident that occurred after the race finished?? Seems like the stewards are making the rules up themselves a they go along the last couple of years

[@miguelm6997]

What I don't understand, in F1 after the checkered Flag, every marshal waves every Flag. A tiny hidden checkered Flag is easy to miss, ten yellow, red etc Flags no! Why don't they do the same for Feeder Formulas? Is it some kind of tradition only for GPs?

[@RenaxTM91]

Would it really be that difficult in 2024 with all the data available to show the checkered flag on the screens all around the track just rolling out on pace with the winner? just start showing it after the last un-lapped car has passed? Could be an issue with race leader being very close to lapping another car but that same issue arrives on the finish line in those scenarios.

[@SDRaygon]

Just make her steering wheel led's flash white and black like they do for sim racing. ahh well wrote this before it was said in the video xD

[@kevbrown2532]

Flag board idea is a good one, in addition to one on the line a second before turn 1 would act as a safety net. The flag waving point at the finish line needs to be moved to the opposite side of the track. Coming out of a left hand bend you're more likely to see it on the outside as you straighten the car up.

[@geniferteal4178]

As you set it I was thinking something similar. What do the other flag stations show when the races over? They could put up a yellow or something anything to indicate what the car should be doing at that point since the races over they would want you to slow down. They should be showing a flag in accordance with that.

[@pjtemplin]

Set up the flag boards to show a progressive checkered flag. The timing loops know where the cars are. As soon as every eligible car has crossed a mini sector, set the board to checkered. Maybe also send a checkered flag message to the steering wheels.

[@glynchallinor1874]

If the CC-hequered Flag or some other signal were given shortly after the finish line this maybe would solve the probelm. Thanks for a very well Considered and presented video.

[@Octet]

Great video!

[@karlosss1868]

The only thing they should change is the FIA!

[@textnotepro]

nicely made. especially all the alternative solutions - really I would want to see multiple chequered flag solutions used - just for safety. so one board next to finish lane PLUS board over start lights PLUS dashboard indicator.

[@coced]

A digital checkered flag wouldn't the first tradition we sacrifice for safety... Btw, during F1 races, aernt the marshal waving all flags on hands at random to the winner ? i swear i saw this many times and thought it was procedure haha

[@chris-hayes]

I know this video was supposed to show how "it's complicated", but seeing how the flag was blocked, the ONE place the track displays that the race is over, just convinces me FIA f'd up big time here. A flag that may not be visible at all, waved by someone who probably doesn't know how to wave flags, should not be the single point of failure.

[@MrVsGarage]

I wasn't going for it's complicated but more, all these other things don't actually matter if you can't see the flag. And you couldn't! But yeah nothing should come down to a single point of failure in a sport like this

[@lsdesignweb]

Really good vid, subscribing

[@OMM.F1]

The black board should of had a checkered flag screen as well. It's used by the main sport I think.

[@JAlonge017]

I don’t follow f1, barely follow nascar, and I never knew about this so thanks for the video

[@mattwalker529]

As each of the flag boards can be independently operated then the checked flag or even, flashing yellow and red at the end of the race if you can only have one checkered flag

[@biddierepellent]

From what I remember seeing at the end of the race, that checkered flag was waved poorly and meekly. The woman that was waving it could barely move her arms with the flag in her hands. I made that comment to myself *before* Pin crossed the line, though I didn't expect she'd do an extra lap. There are so many reasons why Pin's penalty was unfair.

[@Falconius]

I think this issue could be avoided by adopting 3 things that are very common in American Motorsports... 1. A flag on the starting stand to indicate the last lap of the race. This would give Pin twice the opportunities to see the flag, and potentially have a white flag flash on her dash like you see in INDYCAR, would be helpful in this situation. 2. Having Checkard flags flash on the lighting boards around the track. 3. Having a dedicated (and trained) professional Flagman would solve the issue, even though you mentioned that the flag was partially obsured by the lighting board, a profession flagman would still be visible beyond the board (as shown during the F1 Race), and the flagman would have been able to notice the board was there and have it modified before the race.

[@GarfieldRex]

Investigation level: kindergarten. Marshalls have so many tools at their disposal and chose to use none.

[@geniferteal4178]

I like your point not able to see flag. How did other drivers know the race was over?