who wins if both teams cap the flag or payload cart at the same time?

[@lanyon2716]

That explains why Valve *never* included a own Blu team trailer for each character.

[@milkdromeda8539]

Biased?

[@cheungmichealcheungkimchi1341]

Colorist!!!!!!

[@TheClownMan1]

Meet the spy is has a blue focused on but not exactly

[@allconsumingchicken9173]

xGigaPixel communism

[@TheClownMan1]

@@allconsumingchicken9173 I am one of a hoovy myself and very communist

[@metalilama1]

First we joked about Valve favoring RED more than BLU, now we joke about Valve favoring any other game more than TF2

[@bn77t]

this

[@AGrayPhantom]

the

[@remingtomi8212]

worst

[@rubiroman8121]

Thing

[@jasontheredfox]

ever

[@DatSheep13]

It’s even canon in-game that RED wins lol.

[@kannatheweeb8836]

Yea.

[@ultimatedoge5990]

@@kannatheweeb8836 indeed

[@latviandragon2718]

makes senses

[@Halvos12]

Unless it's payload race which they always lose.

[@sleeves2604]

@@Halvos12Yeah, but no one likes it anyway. It's literally considered impolite to pursue the objective on the most popular PLR map (hightower).

[@stockholm2375]

I remember one time on Nightfall both carts capped at once during overtime, one of the teams won (I forget which) and it broke the rest of the map. The carts just disappeared and the game wouldn't end.

[@hunterknapp7681]

I've played that server and always wondered what happened!

[@TheMagnumDon]

Dude with your pfp it makes it feel like a retelling of a war story

[@kabhes9040]

@@hunterknapp7681 wait you mean to say those carts are still stuck?

[@hunterknapp7681]

@@kabhes9040 They were last time I played, but I think the server is gone now

[@papalinguine4841]

Something about the game never ending with the carts gone terrifies me, it’s like being trapped in a purgatory, except it’s a payload race

[@karlbischof2807]

Why doesnt it just end with "VICTORY! - STALE MATE" the Ooooooh sound and everyone is crit and speed boosted.

[@demi-femme4821]

You, sir, are a genius.

[@ThumbsTup]

That would be really fun

[@n00bsstuff36]

I mean, how often will a stale mate even happen, anyways?

[@ThumbsTup]

@@n00bsstuff36 rarely, that's the fun part

[@THE_Mirage]

Just a fucking lightning round who can cap an extra obj first and the map just decides to expand further

[@kamerosaholav1337]

shounic is going insane without new updates

[@Ghrime]

we all are

[@amenoameno2678]

dont worry , Half life Alyx is finished so tf2 team will back to work

[@disismarcoboi2596]

@@shotgun3217 just fucking wait

[@agabrield]

@@disismarcoboi2596 500+ days since the last major update (jungle inferno) Are you kidding me?

[@disismarcoboi2596]

@@agabrield and how does that say anything about the tf2 devs coming back?

[@eessppeenn001]

I remember a long time ago. Back when it was valve servers. Before casual, and maybe even before quickplay, it used to be sudden death rather than stalemate. Ah. Good times.

[@stomyed22]

what was sudden death?

[@maw5771]

stom yed Basically, old feature for resolving stalemates, where there was a final tiebreaker round, but there were no revives. So, the team that capped first or eliminates the entire enemy team wins

[@throatychunk]

Why did they remove that, that was gold

[@3DAnaglyphGames]

@@throatychunk If someone is intentionally camping as a Spy with the watch that you can stay in invis forever if you stay in one spot, then basically the round would never end.

[@DeskFan]

@@3DAnaglyphGames Cloak and dagger? Also your saying it turns into a hide and seek match?

[@koth_harvest_final]

im still in awe of the gaben quotes you keep finding

[@Hu1tziil]

"These uh uh set of uh" Gaben ~ Circa 2007

[@Touhou2006]

Hakase!

[@MurriciTerceiro]

@@Touhou2006 tatakae!

[@janreiafrica]

Shounic but everytime he uploads, he loses a bit of sanity left waiting for a new TF2 update

[@toasterr4238]

shounic but he escapes b4nny's basement to find tf2 still update-less

[@jotham8654]

There will never be a stalemate for ctf because they removed the time limit...

[@Helperbot-2000]

Endless friendly rounds

[@Cat780j]

Community servers can enable it

[@whocares317]

The nature of programming is that things are evaluated in a sequence, there will always be an order build into any series of calculations

[@pokemonfanmario7694]

Yea, I literally paused before Shounic gave the answer and listed the reason exactly from my own experience. I was surprised my example of "red wins first in my hypothetical condition statement" was actually the direct answer lol.

[@samsonic2]

The ending Gabe always cracks me up

[@njsynthesis]

0:30 These are some amazing graphics.

[@guscox9651]

me: shounic can't possibly think of another complex proble- Shounic:

[@fuze7885]

which soundsmith episode did you get your pfp from? just wanna know so i can watch it

[@guscox9651]

@@fuze7885 mans guide to the beggars bazuuka

[@fuze7885]

@@guscox9651 ok thanks

[@Danymaster20]

This means mann vs machine was part of the plan in the begining, beign RED always the best, both teams are united (RED and BLUE) but both decide to use the red custom because that represent the meaning of the mission (Destroy robots), they are dedicated to the demolition and not building the robots...

[@cendolzx3861]

Omg

[@johann3256]

Except the engi

[@trollfake]

@@johann3256 you have to build to destroy something sentry guns

[@johann3256]

@@trollfake Yea, that is why he is blu

[@thrawnnoconnection6931]

No, Red is just the protagonists of the Meet The Team videos

[@bakugo_v8]

Red always winning in CTF is due to how the game checks for victory. Every frame (or every x frames, not sure), the server goes through each team one at a time and checks if they have enough caps to win. Red team is always checked first (red is teamID 2, blu is 3) so they will always win if they have enough caps. As for payload, I'm not entirely sure but it may have something to do with the order of the capture point entities on the map (so different maps could have different default winners).

[@Slye_Fox]

I think for PLR, it might be because the code is copied from normal Payload, where only BLU caps the payload. So they are most likely first in the check list, then it goes to the copied code for RED.

[@crestfallensunbro6001]

1:58 you've changed the future! you've created a time paradox

[@lugui]

Pre weatching guess: The players that cames first in processing order will capture, even if both players capture in the same tick Edit: Apparently, it is so poorly coded that each case has its own condition.. damn Valve...

[@tameronica]

I stopped playing tf2 a year ago. And now I'm back watching tf2 content and playing tf2. I missed how much fun it was. Just pointing that out.

[@shiba2ndworlder]

"Valve doesn't upload new content and shounic does something unrelated"

[@AnimatorArt24]

The reason for this is probably because the person who made this map scripted the teleport commands like, teleport(red_spy); teleport(blue_spy); where red is first in line to be executed. So he is a frame closer to the entrance point.

[@purplehaze2358]

I've played on CTF exclusively so long that I didn't even know the sound of a stalemate prior to today.

[@red_ruby4881]

Here's an interesting question I saw one day: if two players will try to pick up one weapon at the exact same time, who will take it?

[@kerbonaut2059]

finally a question ive been asking for ages.

[@transfemengimain]

I just realized the BLU logo isn’t just a wrench with a screw. It’s a wrench holding a speaker Edit: nvm it’s some nuts.

[@udese730]

pretty sure it's a globe instead

[@transfemengimain]

udese No

[@FireBlaze-kk1ls]

A wrench with a nut inside. Pretty simple

[@transfemengimain]

FireBlaze 4100 Didn’t know there’s nut inside

[@screamsinrussian5773]

wrench deez nuts fool

[@revampedharpy09]

1:19 my assumption there is just that it's an issue of code being executed in a set order as usual, with red being checked first, and if red has won, the game doesn't bother checking blue at all

[@fps_spicy]

your videos are so clean! LOVE IT

[@Schenkel101]

Scout: bending time and space.

[@skinnywhiteboy5590]

A draw is actually possible. In fact one of my very first games ended in a draw, not a stalemate, it actually said draw. Apparently it's so rare that one of the guys on the server mentioned how he'd been playing for five years and never saw a game end in a draw

[@caioronnau5226]

I love your outros with an edited commentary to make it funny

[@purplehaze2358]

..So _that's_ why the winning characters in every "Meet the" video are always on the Red team!

[@DogeisCut]

imagine if it says "draw!" and its yellow, everyone gets crits and speed with the victory sounds.

[@temporarydecoy8183]

video idea does the ethnicity of the characters have an impact on their pick rate? ex: do australians pick sniper more in australia servers? do people play spy more in french servers?

[@boblee1784]

lol

[@nickblack9827]

I know personally I have more playtime on scout, soldier, and engineer because they are american

[@winfieldk6692]

I'm a life long texan, and I'm an engy main. I don't think where I'm from had any effect on that though, I normally like playing support/constructive classes in games.

[@nibulsheep8214]

@@05brackets50 is the pyro arabic tho

[@inspectorjavert9868]

@@nibulsheep8214 I honestly think Pyro may be Mexican or Hispanic due to his abundance of Mexican cosmetics

[@sagacious03]

Neat explanation! Thanks for uploading!

[@opiateconnoisseur5955]

literally unplayable

[@mercce6750]

0:01 Bold of you to assume that there's a time limit.

[@GREEDEX12345]

Mercce lol 2fort

[@mercce6750]

@@GREEDEX12345 Actually casual in general.

[@CAMSLAYER13]

I love the "you're both losers" on the stalemate window.

[@johnnyclueless]

What about banana bay? The carts on that map have to wait to get hit by a train, could that cause it to stalemate possibly?

[@LiNH_314]

both trains ram into eachother and everyone fuckin dies

[@lychy645]

the train hits one cart first and the first cart's team wins

[@italiangarbageposting]

The train wouldnt hit both at the same time, it will only hit one according to where the train comes from

[@jd_the_cat]

No.

[@Th3DankestMemer]

1:58 Scout: "Bending time and space"

[@shocker807]

Favoritism that's it. Valve likes the red team😏

[@screamsinrussian5773]

@Joe Mama they are from Seattle after all

[@awesome_pow]

I LITERALLY JUST ASKED THIS TO MY STREAM YESTERDAY!

[@fauxfirefur]

I bet that the reason red always wins is that the code for determining the capture checks red first.

[@thechair6519]

Imagine the 2 teams winning at the same time and everyone gets crits and goes apeshit as they kill everyone

[@realsaibanetto]

2:02 "We have taken the victory"

[@chewtag]

what about capping eachothers control points at the same time

[@kindertak5396]

imppossible in every map but hydro I think

[@Ben_5917]

Am I the only one who appreciates how good the transition at 0:34 looks?

[@itsjustaclint8404]

Actually. Probably it referenced the Meet The Spy clip where the Red Spy managed to kill the enemy team and get the intel for himself so Red wins first. While Payload... Probably that film everyone forgot about...

[@spartv1537]

1:55 imagine a match like this this would be legendary

[@FangPoster]

Cool vid but here's a little quick idea for ya. While I personally haven't tested it out, could it be a specific team is winning due to floating point inaccuracy, at least when it comes to PLR? After all, floating point numbers aren't always 100% accurate, what could be seen as 0,84 some times is actually 0,84223 or 0,84114. The blue cart could be just partly ahead of the red, making it so when there's bots (And as such no network compensation or whatever) the game is awarding blue the win due to the floating point inaccuracy. The other stuff I don't really question as it could just be a default way of handling the collision of wins, especially since as you showed, red seems to be usually the favorite by the code when it comes to victories, but that part of blue always winning PLR alone I'm still slightly unsure. In any case, pretty cool stuff.

[@jessewilliams8724]

I think the reason for it is the way games are coded. They would have to add another argument to stalemate which would longen times because otherwise the first argument would win. For example, it would go like if (red) cap 3 then (red) f(win) otherwise if (Blu) cap 3 then (Blu) f(win). This isn't what the actual code looks like but something similar to it.

[@Johncw87]

I think there's a very important variable for CTF that wasn't tested here. The order that the intelligence and capture zone entities are stored in the map. Same goes for payload. The order that the entities are stored in the map likely matters, just as the order that players join the server tends to matter. Every entity in the game is assigned an entity index number as it is created, and this number likely determines the tick order for the entities. In these tie scenarios, the team that wins is likely determined on a per-map basis. The map entities will always be created in the same order as they appear in the BSP, so while a single map will always have the same tick order, different maps can have easily have different tick orders. Fun fact: The first indexes are reserved for players based on the maxplayers set by the server, so players always tick first.

[@MadamLava094]

Order of execution will always screw with attempted stalemates like this. The block of code to check one team's victory condition will always be run first, then fire, preventing the other from activating.

[@Lagggerengineering]

0:55 "Red team will always win" Demoman: "THAT'S RAAACIIIIST!!!"

[@Crea.mp4]

“Ctf Time limit” good old days

[@thresholdhatesrevenant2620]

"In ctf if neither team can score enough flags within the time limit, the game defaults to a stalemate" 2fort would like a word with you.

[@Chaz042TFC]

If you go back and look at the logic it may be that attribute processing the win defaults to what team is processed first or last in Hammer. I would see if this is the case and flip to see if it changes.

[@B4FT]

I assume that the reason reds cap wins for CTF is that it must just appear first in the code so the server triggers it first, that would also explain why blu wins the payload race, because blu’s cart code would of likely been copied from regular payload and then reds would of been created off it.

[@GENIUSGT]

You are doing more than Valve to keep this game alive.

[@cavemanpretzel9520]

I love your thumbnails

[@VVen0m]

2:19 cheeky Trolley Tom reference

[@Eira_]

"We win, but they do not lose?"

[@alanweston331]

I waited for this video for a long time

[@digitaledblocks7037]

Maybe the blu team loosing is a refferance to all of the Meet the___s in the website

[@platinumdirt904]

There used to be a mode called sudden death where you couldn't respwan and first team to have all teammates died the other team won

[@lavenderthegreat8171]

In personal experience with Arena it's possible to stalemate by both finishing the objective at the same time (ie a 1v1 where both players kill eachother at the same time or both die at the same time), so it's odd in CTF and PLR that this doesn't occur.

[@shark2349]

theory: in cannon red always manages to get the intel awhile blue always destroys what made that intel relevant thus causing the gravel war to never end, red only ended up winning because they got intel that the blue team couldn't make irrelevant

[@elronman]

Might want to check the map too, the path nodes might effect whose winning.

[@thekingofcrabs6352]

“This uh, uh, set of uhm, technologies we developed are a waste of time, right?”

[@StarflameCrimsonOfficial]

A while back from now, both teams capped on 2fort at the same time at 2-2 (I know this because I was one of the cappers) and both teams went into the stalemate surrender pose, which was strange.

[@oldworldblues4953]

You're insanity is evident with these new videos

[@distorted_heavy]

Honestly it'd be a sick gamemode to defend against an ever moving cart

[@dillinger333]

mvm tanks

[@nicolacherry2425]

I think that both teams should win and both get crits

[@resell_enjoy6]

0:01 HOL-UP???

[@DJDarkDarsi]

With Payload Race, maybe it picks BLU because that's who's pushing in normal payload.

[@MisterRodje]

Thank you for answering my question

[@RealKirb]

Actual if you can’t cap CTF map since their isn’t a time limit at all meaning that it would go on forever with no stalemate

[@ramdonfurry]

I was playing tf2 for years and never got a Stalemate lol

[@prywatne4733]

have you never played on Powerhouse? I get stalemates on that map all the time

[@Dilbert1999]

Blue always wins payload race because they have the most experience, given that they're the ones who are pushing the carts in payload maps.

[@boonybuny8261]

maybe the fact BLU wins every payload race comes from the fact the BLU cart is more commonly used ot normal payload maps, making BLU win when it finished its path

[@shrimpboom8]

I was always a little confused thinking of BLU as the attackers and RED as the defenders until I realized that BLU bases are probably way harder to attack

[@squanguslobotomus7890]

I like cap the flag as a mode to just do shotgun taunt repeatedly in the Intel room sentry nest

[@grentreem3096]

LOL THE THING IN THE END

[@Snooty1]

Oh! That’s why I win more on red team!

[@ChronoSquare]

I had that freeze frame moment happen in a real game of ctf. CTF_Mach4, stalemate, community server set to melee only sudden death. Somehow I heavy win fist fights, carry intel back to cap... but, because this was MACH 4, there's space above the capture area. Last remaining Blu team SWANDIVED ON TOP OF ME AS I CAP AND SCORE BUT WE LOSE BECAUSE I, THE LAST RED, DIES IN A SINGLE PUNCH.

[@724Mouse]

There's literally no such thing as 'the same time' in that game. Everything is event based meaning it can only evaluate one event at a time. There is no case where both victory conditions could be met and evaluated or weighed and judged 'at the same time'.

[@meatdress8111]

By far the funniest Gaben ending lmao

[@TheGreatMelonyt]

Holy shit I haven't seen the old timer in ages

[@krollic]

These videos are important.

[@Manavine]

ngl, payload race should be stalemate because both sides basically halfassed the job and didn't do the "prevent the explosion at our base"

[@bekkayya]

this is very important

[@maximem7600]

BLU : Builders League United RED : Reliable Excavation and Demolition Yet on pl_ and cp_ on attack/defence the ones attacking are the BLU and the ones defending are the RED. The supposed builders are attacking the supposed destroyers. Never understood the logic there.

[@enzop6861]

I'm sure that it would have to do (normally) with the average points on one team, because the way you tested it the individual bots didn't have time to rack up points from kills

[@AitkrapooYT]

what happens if both bots join at the same time then you test these things out

[@lordofsloths32]

Shounic has become the pannenkoek of tf2

[@bakugo_v8]

This is probably a bit late considering you've said this in many videos but I still feel the need to correct it. What you refer to as "join order" is not actually join order, it's the position of the player in the entity list. There is always a fixed number of slots reserved for players in the entity list, and players will always occupy the lowest free player slot when they join. So if a player leaves and then someone else joins, they will occupy the slot of the player that left, not a higher slot, and will behave as if they "joined first" as you describe it, even though they didn't. This explains the weirdness you saw during that video about the original.

[@shounic]

hey, thanks, i appreciate that you want to clarify things. someone did actually inform me of that previously, but not everyone who watches these videos are accessible to these deeper programming ideas. my channel in general is not really about the fine details in programming, the channel is more like loosely centered on tf2. so for the sake of understand-ability for a layman and streamlining things, i kinda have to leave out details like the one you just mentioned - that aren't critical to understanding what's happening, to keep things simple. i saw the other comments you've made and i actually do really appreciate people like you who have a lot more technical knowledge than i do, i get to learn from it, but in general it's just that it's a bit too much to explain and try to get people to understand when they honestly don't even really need to. specifically on that video where i had no idea what was going on with removing and adding bots though, i would've explained that if i knew at the time.

[@bakugo_v8]

​@@shounic I understand, there's no need to go that deep in the videos themselves, but I think it would be a good idea to at least explain it in the description for anyone who wants to know the details.

[@shounic]

hmm interesting compromise. i haven't thought of that before, that's a good idea for the future. thanks for the suggestion :)

[@PentaromaLMA0]

*Oh god. Valve please give us an actual update, please this is torture, please..*

[@fab9207]

In csgo type status or something similar in console to see when you joined the server. Then if you and someone kill eachother at the same time the game favours the person higher up the status list. Might be the same with TF2.

[@ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I wonder if BLU wins in no-intervention Payload draws because of the single-track Payload maps where only BLU has a bomb cart in the first place.

[@AmaroqStarwind]

I’d implement *Alternating Odd-Even Tie Breaking* That’s a computer science term, I swear I’m not making it up.

[@MadGameBoy]

Ten bucks says whatever capture point is closer to the center axis of the map wins