Doctor Who: Dot And Bubble SPOILER Discussion - A Messaging Masterclass

[@WhoCulture]

How would you rank the Season 1 episodes so far?

[@chrisgoog58]

Crap

[@pun-inator6075]

1. Boom 2. 73 Yards 3. Dot & Bubble (it got better on rewatches) 4. The Devils Cord 5. The Church on Ruby Road 6. Space Babies

[@liobello3141]

1. 73 Yards 2. Boom 3. Dot and Bubble 4. The Devil's Chord 5. The Church on Ruby Road 6. Space Babies The exact order is a bit wibbly wobbly. But I still enjoyed every second of every episode so far.

[@elliesteele2027]

Including the Christmas special as it's basically episode 0: 1. Boom (Amazing tension with a deeply impactful message) 2. The Devil's Chord (Jinkx Monsoon completely stole the stage) 3. The Church on Ruby Road (Excellent introduction for the Doctor, Ruby and the show as a whole) 4. Dot and Bubble (Great but I wish there was deeper exploration into the dot's motive) 5. 73 yards (Good but too many unresolved plot points) 6. Space Babies (Alright but a little too silly)

[@darrengamer8189]

Brilliant. My only criticism would be that Space Babies was a strange choice for a season opener.

[@Mrs_Banjo]

I really appreciate your discussion here and pointing out that you missed it and had to go back. It's really great to see this thoughtful discussion happen and just reinforces why I enjoy the WhatCulture videos so much.

[@ArchedThunder]

I think one of the most uncomfortable scenes was when Lindy realizes the Doctor is the same person she blocked at the start of the episode, she thought they were different people that just “looked the same” and is disgusted to see that he and Ruby are in the same room. Amazing writing on this episode.

[@judithstrachan9399]

I saw the “same room” thing (at the time) as like in the first (?) of Isaac Asimov’s “Foundation” series, where a woman was sickened at the thought of breathing air that had been someone else’s lungs.

[@judithstrachan9399]

Although I did immediately think of the old “Chinese people always look the same” trope when she said that. And of an episode of some police drama where the cop thought a dead body might be a missing person, who didn’t look like her, solely because of her colour. At least he was properly ashamed of himself when he realised.

[@DarkDutch007]

She blocked him and by not knowing he could unblock himself could also explain why she thought they were different people at first.

[@suzettehorst4065]

At first I thought it was an age thing. Ruby looks closer in age to Lindy, and she seemed like the type who will listen to somebody trying to tell them something that is closer to them in age.(Sort of a Zoomer/Millennial/Xennial vibe.)

[@Happymama12]

@@judithstrachan9399 I never saw foundation but to be fair breathing air that’s been in someone else’s lungs is how you get the flu lol I think it’s gross too even though that’s how breathing works. But it’s like if I’m sleeping in the same bed as someone I always lay on my side facing away from them cuz I can’t stand feeling their breath and breathing it in lol

[@NigelGriffin]

I appreciate your honesty in acknowledging how, as people who haven’t lived that experience, the racism went over your heads on the first watch.

[@peterdixon7734]

On the contrary, some of us did spot it. Not only were the others in the bubble white, they were dressed like something out of the late 1960s.

[@jonesnori]

I'm sure some white folks saw it, but I'll bet a lot of us didn't. I took it to be classism til quite late in the episode. It was the mention of contamination that really brought it home. Even "not one of us" could have been read either way.

[@peterdixon7734]

@@jonesnori Well, it was also classism, it must be said. The Doctor was, however, wearing a red jumper, which might have been RTD's non-subtle means of reinforcing the point. One might wonder how Lindy failed to consider the possibility that a man with a time and space machine who had been able to get to that planet, penetrate the bubble and do all he did might be a "man of substance" in material and technological terms. The Doctor should have shown Lindy his past, mostly white, faces, not least the Pertwee Doctor, who looked quite regal, and 13, who looked dazzlingly blonde. That might have got Lindy's attention.

[@Jenifer_R_]

I was too steeped in my other biases to notice the racism. I hated her for being entitled, stupid, elitist and incompetent. The racism was just gravy.

[@azcomicgeek]

As a gay, atheist Hispanic male brought up in a predominantly Catholic culture, I completely missed any racism in this episode. I thought her dismissal of The Doctor was because he was an older man who wasn't part of her clique. He sent Ruby in because she could pass as someone who had not been friended

[@422katieleigh]

I think there’s a good chance Ricky would’ve responded differently because of his exposure to books and expanded information. Education isn’t always an antidote to bigotry, but it’s often a start to the journey. I’m not saying he wouldn’t be racist-I think in that world it’s inescapable. But I think he would’ve had an open enough mind to consider going with him.

[@EmpireGamingWynter]

I feel like he would have gone with them, but begrudgingly. I feel like he was in that unlearning phase, but is still rooted in that racism. I think if given time he would have got better, but he wasn't quite there yet

[@sparklesapp6853]

I think your right he was maybe the only one i did liked ( besides the bugs) because he stepped out of his "bubble" even if it was for a little while ...he tried....and if he would have made it.. i think he really would have left with the doctor and ruby

[@nixxie2390]

yup - after the ep finished I realised that there's no way that Ricky could get through that door - because 100% he would have gone into the tardis & even tried to get the others to see sense!

[@lant7123]

Maybe, but we don't know what books. I'm not so quick to like Ricky. He's just better than the utter crap masses. Might have been interesting if Ricky, the "good one," still thought Doctor was "tainted."

[@judithstrachan9399]

Maybe he’d read “To Kill a Mockingbird”…… Edit No, it would have been banned!

[@carldavies9404]

My impression was that Ricky would have wanted to go with the Doctor and the other survivors would have followed him because he was famous but Lindy sacrificing Ricky so she could live is actually what doomed not just her but all the other survivors.

[@HomelessPirate]

woah, I hadn't thought about it like that, that's very fucking valid

[@jackiew6598]

This is very likely. And if Ricky had gone into the woods with them, he was the only one who had any hope of helping them survive as he was the only one with some physical coordination and observation skills from spending time outside the bubble. Their chances in the woods were slim even with Ricky, but without Ricky they had no chance in the woods.

[@philipjay2099]

I think the be aware message is directly for us in the real world. You both missed subtle racism thrown at you for 45+ minutes. How often are we missing it in reality and walking right by it? Maybe more people will have more open of eyes [and ears] more often...

[@sandal_thong8631]

Someone suggested watching the behind-the-scenes shorts and counting how many people of color are in them, too. Whether this is a white-people's show made with diverse actors, but not diverse crew?

[@Mrs_Banjo]

It's interesting that there are people on social media effectively counting the times Ncuti's Doctor cries. Ten cried CONSTANTLY and while it was a while ago now so I may have just not noticed, but I don't remember this kind of weirdness around the frequency with which he cried.

[@saqibshabir9755]

Yeah, Ten was very emotional

[@kadosho02]

Nothing wrong with showing emotion. The Doctor is a character that holds so much inside. But once it's let go, the flow of tears. 😭

[@esmecat]

@@saqibshabir9755 to be honest, i wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the reasoning for bringing him back briefly before Ncuti taking over the role... to bridge the gap between more stoic doctors and his very emotive past for newer viewers.

[@russbaxter1806]

I think it's that some people had decided that they were going to hate Ncuti before the episodes even aired (and no prizes for guessing why many of them were like that) and so now they have to try to justify it without resorting to saying "but he's black". I'm pretty sure it was similar when Jodie was announced as the Doctor - people decided that was going to kill the program before they even saw her performance.

[@robinsparkies]

Ten crying is a frickin meme

[@SilkyC]

This episode had so many layers. As a person of colour I of course flagged the racism pretty early however that last scene really solidified how intense that racism really was. It just blew my mind how angry and upset I got watching it. Shedding tears along side The Doctor and Ruby. I think another poingant moment was the fact that Ruby 'caught on' before the Doctor did. It didnt even register with the Doctor at first, it took a moment, but when it clicked......it clicked.

[@jonesnori]

Perhaps because she grew up in a Black family, and he had been white for a thousand years or more. Incredible episode. I was one of the half-blind - didn't see it til the end (white and old).

[@judithstrachan9399]

I could see her thinking, “It’s people & Mum all over again!”

[@sheersternfeld1914]

I think this is the first time the Doctor experiences racism that is directed towards him. I think that after the episode was done, he had a lot of thinking to do, mostly about "did I use to act like this?" and "I had black companions before. I went with them to the past, and I didn't even consider this"

[@gameburn178]

The Doctor is not black. It's just the colour he was regenerated into. Sure, the actor is a person of colour, but the character he's playing is from an alien world, has two hearts and has lived practically forever. Wtf, he was a woman recently, lol. I don't think the Doctor can even feel like a person of colour, which means he can't feel racially put upon. Which means his response (the character) is false. He should react by saying, "ignore this appearance, I'm not my colour, it's just a shell. Listen up."

[@judithstrachan9399]

@@gameburn178 If that’s so, he would be even more perplexed as to why they would refuse to let him save them.

[@jojoendersen]

I'm right there with Mick. First watch I was too distracted by all of Russell's distractions to notice the main theme was racism. I did catch a few hints of it, but the ending I thought her "you aren't one of us" pertained to them just in general being outsiders and I was genuinely confused by Ncuti's reaction. Upon opening the internet my only though was: DAMN I missed it that hard... that was actually brilliant! Hat's off to Russell, well done!

[@saucermcfly]

While I didn't necessarily pinpoint racism as the main theme, I kept getting an Aryan vibe from the community. "Everyone looks so white... And there seem to be a lot of blondes..." I thought, though, that that might have been why they were selected for this project and even perhaps those in charge of the project are behind creating or bringing the giant slug creatures. That everyone's demise might have been part of the plan. I didn't catch on that everyone else was actually just as terrible as Lindy, though - until the end.

[@priebecl]

No one has mentioned the name of the body of water the selected few are traveling on. Hmm. The river Styx ?

[@leijen208]

the death of Ricky September also shows just how long that boat ride at the end will be. They will kill each other off, before they even reach the forest

[@mrcritical6751]

Even if they did survive long enough to get kids, those future generations are dead, that community isn’t big enough to curb inbreeding

[@jackiew6598]

They will feed each other to the wolves.

[@gregorio5360]

You know it's an intense and super discussion invoking episode when WhoCulture doesn't talk about Susan Twist's appearance

[@panman1964]

Has anyone else noticed that this was the second “first hug” of this season? (First one was in Space Babies”)

[@grysndotwav]

RTD just lonely

[@PhoenixWrightAceAttorney]

Didn't The Doctor and Ruby hug at the end of "Boom" as well when The Doctor gave his speech? "A sad old man once told me what survives of us...is love." Then Ruby hugs The Doctor as they watch over Kastarion 3.

[@panman1964]

@@PhoenixWrightAceAttorney you're not wrong however I was highlighting the significance of a "first hug" as opposed to hugging generally

[@PhoenixWrightAceAttorney]

@@panman1964 I see what you mean. Since this episode was The Doctor's (Ncuti Gatwa's) initial debut, they technically hugged here first, but the first time they actually hugged chronologically was in Space Babies.

[@panman1964]

@@PhoenixWrightAceAttorney apologies I'm still not being clear about the significance of "first hug" I'm not referring to the Doctor & Ruby as such. In Space Babies Ruby gave Eric his "first hug" (as stated in the script) In Dot & Bubble we have had the same with Lindy & Ricky

[@benstott2662]

I think the episode making the viewers feel uncomfortable is intentional, it’s supposed to highlight how uncomfortable we as a species make other humans feel, why can’t we as people just accept everyone

[@IceMetalPunk]

For clarification: the Doctor said the slugs were created by the Dot system. The Dots created them to eat the kids and their parents; the Dots were in control, that's why they were eating people in alphabetical order (the Dots were going down their user list). I assume the reason is because it's easier to kill people quietly than turning the only thing they notice into a murder bot they can see, hear, and run from.

[@hakelliese7933]

Yeah, but the dots could have killed everyone simultaneously. No chance to run

[@kubamcmillan3078]

​@@hakelliese7933 well the dots absolutely hate them

[@Jim_The_Fish]

@@hakelliese7933my only headcanon for this is, like the Doctor said, is that the Dots truly learned to HATE the citizens of Finetime. The wanted them to suffer a scary death of being SLOWLY eaten alive by a giant slug monster (the dude sitting next to Lindy in the office was screaming for a hot minute there, albeit muffled), instead of a quick painless shot through the head. At least Ricky’s death was quick.

[@staticneuron]

Also when the dot seemed to make the choice to kill lindy, the bubble changed color and started to warp and break. It wasn't immediate and since they were so immersed in the bubble that if it broke it would allow them to see the world around them and to think for a few moments. It is possible the dit didn't have enough processing power to kill all of them like this, that is why it chose that method. Also it didn't look like there were any elevators to the roof, so having them walk off the top of a building might not be an option either.

[@tjet34]

​@@hakelliese7933they could have killed them quickly, sure, but it's like the ai they tried to train on Twitter that turned into a n*zi. The Dots were fed on hatred and racism and so on, of course they grew to hate the people and want them to suffer as they die.

[@theavenger2378]

This is exactly why this was a great episode. The idea that even as an ally, if you aren't the one being discriminated against you won't always notice how society is tailored around you. I'm straight and white, I didn't pick up on all the background bubbles being white. Until the end comment or two by the woman, I thought it was an outsiders/insiders rich/poor dynamic, only when they mentioned something overtly racist did the other 'odd' interactions click into place. My partner and I work in retail, and the amount of customers I get along fine with but then treat her differently is something I keep getting reminded of. I'll bring them up in conversation as a 'I had a good interaction with this person' only to find they frequently condescend (and more) to her is heartbreaking to me. And obviously, justice for Ricky.

[@JunoJ0911]

Ricky would’ve also been the natural survivalist leader. He had the most knowledge. He had to go for the ending of “oh yeah they’re doomed” to hit. Same thing with her being unable to move without arrows…

[@Jim_The_Fish]

The arrow thing does make sense though. The interface of the bubble was constantly spinning clockwise, which explains why she kept veering to her right. If you ever stare at a spinning image and then look away, it can be disorienting, and this is how she lives every waking second of her life. You could see her getting the hang of it slowly throughout the episode, which is pretty realistic.

[@Tim.Stotelmeyer]

People are glossing over the intensity of Ruby's reaction to the racism. Ruby has probably seen racism plenty of times because her adaptive mother is black.

[@judithstrachan9399]

That’s why she realised before he did.

[@law2859]

The way she did Ricky September was really chilling..

[@LordLOC]

I mean they telegraphed it pretty good with the whole "Today is the worst day of my life, but also maybe the best" and Ricky saying "There's still thousands of people dying" thing. That to me was the tipping point for the audience to maybe realize Lindy sucks ass.

[@kidalex77]

Then they made her worse (before the racism reveal) when she said she learned hugging from "a wonderful man." Ugh. I actually loathe that woman. Such great acting from Callie Clarke because she's really made me hate Lindy...

[@Viglin123]

I knew he was dead soon as he was revealed to be different from the rest …it’s a very long Dr Who cliche .

[@gregknight498]

In my opinion, any show that make me take a hard look at myself and the way I view the world while entertaining me at the same time have a way of quickly becoming my favorites. This episode also has sparked amazing conversations across many platforms… what an episode!

[@jonnythegamemaster]

Really appreciate how honest you were that the racism message didn't hit first time. We all have our blind spots and it's always good to check ourselves to make sure we're not being ignorant to things.

[@jamie.coulthard.2222]

thanks for confirming when ellie will be back I have missed her infectious laugh and her smile

[@WhoCulture]

Yep, she's imminent! And we've got LOTS planned as we enter the final stage of the season 👀

[@jamie.coulthard.2222]

@@WhoCulture so will she be doing the ups and downs of rouge on saturday or is it shaun

[@judithstrachan9399]

Rouge! Hehe. Autocorrect?

[@googamp32]

I LOVED this episode! Seeing all those awesome slug monsters devouring all of those stupid gen z racists was SO cool! I can only hope the next episode is anywhere close to as good as this one.

[@judithstrachan9399]

From what Mick said, it might be.

[@sheersternfeld1914]

Well, technically it's in the future, so they aren't gen z, but gen I-don't-know-what. Sorry, ocd.

[@googamp32]

@@sheersternfeld1914 They're Gen Z coded, but I get what you mean.

[@chrisleneil]

Thank you for the moment to honour William Russell 💜

[@FlatSatire]

I kept assuming it was class snobbery also. It was very subtle. I did not notice until I saw in another reaction video that the Doctor's initial message was flagged with a warning, but Ruby's initial message right afterward didn't get any sort of warning message on screen. Yet neither she nor the Doctor were on Lindy's friend list! Wow.

[@judithstrachan9399]

Wow, I did notice that. It just didn’t register.

[@mrcritical6751]

I just assumed with Ruby it was because she was posing as a Dot maintenance worker

[@YTAgnesAnne]

that had been my thought. ​@@mrcritical6751

[@carolj6163]

​@mrcritical6751 Me too. I figured the doctor learned something about the tech and found a way to override the system, but since she already saw him, Ruby would have to be the one to pose as a worker.

[@jacksonmacmanus1001]

William Russell actually does hold the record for longest gap between appearances, like he got a Guinness world record for it

[@ugolomb]

The Doctor has faced human racism before, but directed against companions rather than against the Doctor him/herself (setting aside the Fugitive Doctor, who likely did experience racism when living as a black human female in present-day England, but later incarnations wouldn't remember that). The Doctor did face non-human prejudices directed against Time Lords, and at least on one occasion his help was actually rebuffed because of anti-Time-Lord prejudice (the death of Cass in "The Night of the Doctor"). But that was different becasue the Doctor actually shared much of the disdain and anger against his own kind

[@eliselianaboyd2547]

It's not different, and that short episode was done better than bubble and dot

[@anneonthephone]

HOW DO I FIND THAT ONE??!!!

[@Jim_The_Fish]

@@eliselianaboyd2547If you pay attention, it’s actually very different. The Time Lords were literally at fault for a lot of the war (The Doctor still blames Rassilon for many atrocities). They were literally causing parts of time and space to burn. Class wasn’t racist, she just literally couldn’t trust this planet full of gods burning everything in their path to stop the Daleks. In this, he is simply hated because of the color of his skin. Please don’t try to equate the prejudice of gods during war to racism.

[@Jim_The_Fish]

@@anneonthephoneFind what? Fugitive of the Judoon is in series 12 of Doctor Who, and Night of the Doctor has been available to watch on KZbin since 2013. It’s meant to be watched with the other minisode “The Last Day” before watching the 50th Anniversary special Day of the Doctor.

[@jmarquiso]

I remember they explained racism away with a Perception filter early on, and that could be a mistake.

[@twebible]

Great video and conversation! I think this episode is less about social media and more about the ways that our lives are constructed to distract us from the harm that is being done to others and to ourselves. I would be interested in a conversation between Ellie and a BIPOC Dr. Who fan on this episode.

[@jonesnori]

Yes, me too.

[@masterfrf]

We love Ellie, but it's nice that we've been getting so much Sean! 🔷🌟

[@PeerAdder]

Just a note on William Russell, he does indeed hold the record for longest gap between appearances on Dr Who at 57 years 120 days. I also only recently found out that Russell had four children including his son, Alfred Enoch, who is best known for playing Dean Thomas in seven of the “Harry Potter” movies.

[@samhollier6929]

If this was a 13th Doctor episode, she would have had a whole speech at the end like "ooooohhhhhh, we need to care for eachother, we need to do better, otherwise we'll end up like these guys, cause.... this is also Earth". More was said at the end of this episode without actual words. Very well written/acted.

[@micron000]

It's honestly really great of you to go back, rewatch, rethink and own up to the fact that you've missed it on first viewing. That was a big part of the episode, it was MEANT to be uncomfortable, in order to shake you out of your own bubble and make you aware of these micro-aggressions which you usually don't notice or dismiss as unimportant. The very discussion here proves that the episode has done its job beautifully :) I personally don't think Ricky would have been racist, simply because he was established to be the one FineTime citizen who HAS managed to "escape" the bubble in a way, by the mere fact that he regularly put his dot down, spent his time reading about history etc. I do have to say I don't think Ruby was more surprised than the Doctor. If anything, I feel like she realised what it was about before he did, because while the Doctor has spent thousands of years as a white person, Ruby grew up with a black family and is more used to witnessing these micro-aggressions. Part of the reason his reaction was so heartbreaking, was because of the pure disbelief, while Ruby's was more of a silent pain for her friend, but not actual shock imo. Oh, and, Vine was around in 2013-2017 lol

[@doppelganger3992]

When she swiped away the Doctor but was willing to talk to Ruby I thought racism but had forgotten it by the end of the show. The ending was a surprise.

[@422katieleigh]

I had taken it as swiping away one random unpleasant message but then when a second person pops up saying the same thing maybe you take a little bit of notice. But the racism perspective also makes sense.

[@aoinatafanboy84]

I agree. It clicked in the back of my mind at first but registered because thats also how the ignorant people in the fanbase sees Ncuti as well. It registered as racism but in a different sense to me.

[@EmpireGamingWynter]

For me it was not long before Gothic Paul died. The lines "he will get disciplined" and "I thought you just looked the same" made me go, "ah... ok"

[@Happymama12]

I feel like that was an easy part to miss because Ruby also almost got swiped away and most women I know would be more likely to talk to a woman they don’t know than a man they don’t know. So all that kinda made sense to me tbh. She even swiped away her own friend when they were telling her people were disappearing. She didn’t want to hear it from anybody. Ruby got her to actually look and see for herself. But gothic Paul couldn’t get her to do that. It was meant to be misleading for sure. Also there was the “eat the rich” element which was more obvious so you’re more likely to focus on that part. There were definitely layers to the episode and I don’t think assuming it was about classism was completely wrong either. It was about both things.

[@judithstrachan9399]

@@Happymama12I absolutely agree. Saying it was only, or even mainly, about racism is a bit shallow. It was a magnifying glass to all kinds of prejudice.

[@shawnholbrook7278]

Meanwhile, the doctor is screaming in frustration, trying to save them anyway. Like every mom everywhen.

[@MrStephenLodge]

When she first comes out of the bubble she suffered vertigo as she adapted the vertigo wore of. Its not silly its something you fail to understand if you have not experienced it. After a deep sleep it can take me up to 30 minutes or so to find my balance plus her walking into the post is also understandable as you tend to be watching your feet and concentrating on your balance and not see obstacles.

[@markpettis2896]

From your comments it just occurred to me that the Isolation we get from social media could easily feed into racism and hatred of others that Are not like ourselves I found all these episodes very deep especially on repeated viewing

[@kalebdiaz1671]

Now I never like bringing this up in conversation lol but I do think there is a little bit of a culture divide in this episode from what I’ve seen from reactions, what I mean by that is I definitely feel like people of color would see the little micro aggressions and bits of racism sprinkled around, leading to the final reveal more so than someone who isn’t a person of color, I’m Mexican I’m proud of it and I and my family have experienced racist comments and racist interactions in our lives, speaking for my own experiences, that’s how I was able to see certain bits of racism in the episode before the final reveal, and how I was able to call it before the episode was over. Whereas I’ve seen a lot of people who are white react to this episode, and kind of say man that end in came out of nowhere, but I really felt like I didn’t. Maybe that’s just me maybe I’m speaking out of court but that’s how I view the situation .

[@SilkyC]

I totally agree. As a person of colour I clocked that racism early. But we tend to deal with racism on the regular so we see it. We recognize it fairly early and fairly quickly, as sad as that is.

[@kalebdiaz1671]

@@SilkyC you’re right it is a shame, let’s hope for a better future

[@writeonshell]

I absolutely agree about that divide, but I also think it's 100% intentional. I've seen the quote of RTD talking about this episode and (paraphrasing) how he hopes the conversation is about how long it takes people to realise the cast was entirely white - were you a 5 min in, 10 min in etc. I think it does a great example of showing those small, easy to miss, microagressions. I'm white, so I've not experienced this particular flavour but I'm disabled and queer, so I've experienced others and was able to pick it before the end, but found so many more examples on rematch, and I've still probably missed others. The fact that there are still people arguing with their whole chest that it isn't racist is almost a perfect representation of the message of the episode and the discomfort we were supposed to feel about not seeing it.

[@kalebdiaz1671]

@@writeonshell I noticed that the whole cast was white when she was in the alleyway just dumb person before her bubble died and she was being constantly rude to the doctor and I made a joke to myself “ if she’s a racist” lol I really thought about it for a second and I thought ohhhhhhh

[@mlbrown113]

I’m white, and I really didn’t get it until the second viewing which I find embarrassing. It makes me realize how much I must miss in real life.

[@MrDknuckle]

was hoping that a huge godzilla sized slug would have popped up out of the water and gulped down that boat .....

[@saucermcfly]

I was honestly rather disappointed that we didn't get to see them die their miserable deaths because those people were so very contemptible.

[@Cybernautz]

That would've been too comical lol The way the epsiode ended was perfect and left me feeling empty

[@FuuPhoenix]

They have zero survival skills, zero supplies, and their expecting to go out and dominate the wilderness. They are dying, and not pleasantly

[@jackiew6598]

I know in my heart that the Godzilla slug was waiting just on the other side of the waterfall.

[@lily_evildm2317]

i didn't notice the racism at all until it was pointed out to me and I rewatched. I felt so stupid (and privileged) that it totally flew over my head.

[@TomCoates]

I think the point of this episode is not social media so much, but just bubbles. They’re living in a bubble, they’re talking to each other in the bubble, even when they’re taken out of the literal bubbles they’re still 100% in their racist bubble. And we in the white parts of the audience didn’t notice it because we too are in a bubble as well! And the whole thing is about puncturing those bubbles. All the way through. Obviously social media is one of the bubbles, but I think it’s so obviously in retrospect about the bubbles and not “social media”. I almost think focusing on the social media bit is itself a bit of a misreading, although I think it’s an understandable one. I think we’re supposed to be shocked and surprised to some extent too. That’s going to be more of a shock to white viewers than everyone else, maybe, but I think it is a twist. I read something recently that said the point of the twist is not to shock you, but to recontextualize everything you watched up to that point. And that 100% worked for me.

[@jmarquiso]

How many people used echo chambers to avoid uncomfortable truths, especially during the pandemic

[@nfinity1421]

That was a great discussion and thank you both for having it. Regarding the slugs and dots, I don't think the dots could kill instantly. Remember, Ricky was fighting one off until he stopped in shock as Lindy was throwing him under the bus.

[@francisco_m7849]

😊9:40 hey guys. Cheers for America. I was also confused, but it was clarified in one of the other comments on the other videos. The reason why she had trouble walking when the bubble was down is because the bubble is constantly spinning in One Direction all the time so that messes with your sense of direction that’s what the arrows were for, therefore when she was not using the bubble, her sense of direction was off because her direction was off for a while once she was without the bubble she then started to get her bearings straight, so it’s not a permanent issue. It was also something that the doctor and Ruby didn’t catch on right away either which is kind of weird that the doctor didn’t notice that

[@igorschmidlapp6987]

Ignorance can be treated with education... Stupidity is incurable...

[@whimsy339]

I missed the racism too. I thought the woman was just an elitist sociopath. But in my defense, I don't look at people and think, "Oh, you're black, and you're white." And because I don't make judgments based on skin color, in my head, I'm thinking other people behave that way too. It breaks my heart knowing that there are still ignorant people out there behaving this way. When the Doctor absorbed the realization that she was rejecting him, because of his skin color, and still he begged them to let him save them, my spirit soared. I know sometimes we need to be confrontational when we see such things. I also believe that not meeting hate with anger and/or hate could change things too. Or I'm just really naive.

[@101Waylander]

I assumed racism when she blocked the Doctor without saying a word, that and the look on her face.

[@webwarren]

My thought was that it was because he butted in without having been introduced by someone already in her social circle

[@jamesmcilroy9190]

The only time the "UNSOLICITED REQUEST" message appeared on screen and gave the option to block or allow was when the doctor first came on screen, not for Ruby and not for the other person who got eaten before Lindy's dot turned on her, the racism was built into the technology😮😢

[@davidjrandall1979]

I wonder if the ending was a nod to the ferry crossing the river Styx to the underworld, that they’re all doomed

[@Happymama12]

I thought the same thing. It very much felt that way. I’m almost positive those characters didn’t survive lol like even in the home world the slugs killed everybody. And these guys didn’t even know how to walk lol

[@webwarren]

Didn't see that, but quite a propos

[@VickiKolman]

I had the same reaction as Mick the first time. I just thought they were super elitist and didn't want some strange man butting into their DMs and telling them what to do. That being said, I did think that Ruby was accepted for looking like a blonde, blue-eyed elite match, but I still hadn't put it quite together. Even when they got on the boat, I just thought they were idiots. But then once it hit, when the Doctor looked so angry and hurt, it felt obvious and I felt so dumb and ashamed for not realizing it. On rewatch, it's right there, especially while seeing her reaction to the same advice from Ricky. But I feel this was intentional, to see how many of us realize that we are not noticing as much as we should and to wake us up to the idea that this is going on all the time and we are blind to it. Time to drop the bubble of our own circumstances and look around. (ETA: I wrote this and then resumed the video... and Mick said this exact same idea but better)

[@rishoosingh]

I was embarrassed too for not realizing until that line by Lindy at the end that there wasn't a single person of color in Finetime.She even gets disturbed just by the thought of Ruby and the doctor being in the same room.

[@BritGirlJay]

I feel quite good about the fact I noticed all the vagaries of the episode (racism, classism, elitism, echo chambers) on first watch and I'm older than both your talking heads here. Callie Cooke was brilliant in masking her character's undertones enough to slide it by so many people. Re the slugs thing - I think created by the Dot because they could hide them while they murdered everyone. Dot knew the people wouldn't look outside their bubbles - but they'd noticed the bubble maker suddenly attacking them (partly because it couldn't keep the bubble up while it did it) - so they invented proxies to do it under their noses.

[@suzettehorst4065]

As a GenJones POC, the racism realization hit me the same time as it hit The Doctor. The term “microagression” was not a thing when I was growing up. If I had focused on every single instance of it, I would never have achieved anything or gotten past it. For my own sanity and self-preservation, I had to ignore a lot. Also, keep in mind that this is the first time The Doctor has presented to the world as a Black Male. Even 13 had a certain degree of privilege as a white person, although she was a woman.

[@panman1964]

I'll be honest on first watch I thought the reason Lindy swiped the Doctor away was partly because of the red text making him seem like some sort of "official" or possibly because he was a bit older than the rest of her friend group. On second watch maybe that additional text was a deliberate ploy by RTD to throw us off the scent a bit and supply a semi plausible reason for the immediate swipe away

[@michaelloughlin409]

millie gibson is also excellent in the final scene, reactions and trying to comfort.

[@kidalex77]

First, I love Dot and Bubble. Second, I'm really appreciate the previews this series. By the preview, there's nothing about Rogue that's exciting to me. But I said the same about Dot and Bubble and now it's my favorite.

[@loftus4453]

Vera Wilde (Council of Geeks) said the exact same thing about missing the racism in this episode. I’m sorry to say I missed it on first watch through as well. White people have blinders on even when we consciously try not to. Incredible work by Davies on this aspect of the episode. It is uncomfortable to realize I miss racism like this in my world. Really made me think about my perspective on racism. I think we need to have this pointed out so we can grow and be more cognizant of the subtle aspects of racism.

[@sonicwind1901]

@4:09 I greatly appreciate him recognizing understanding the profound implication that the episode completely went over their heads in this whole you don't know what you don't know way and further how easy it is to have that happen to you and then in return be dismissive when someone else relays their experience to you because you didn't/couldn't see that when you experienced it. Unlike the real world you cant go back and rewatch what happened so its very easy to say....well that's not what happened and be dismissive

[@euansmith3699]

Some of the music in "Dot and Bubble" was really like James Bond; very cool.

[@scottfromspace]

Overt racism in movies and shows never really stops you and makes you think, the more subtle approach of this one made me consider my blind spots

[@tessbauer3050]

The racism totally caught me off guard as well. I wrote off blocking the doctor and not Ruby as a gender thing as well (I myself am a woman and I totally understand being more worried about men than women), though I did notice that it was a very white cast. I was too busy being suspicious of Ricky to truly notice the racist undertones (I was watching with my brothers and we thought he was the one that was controlling the slugs). During the final scenes, I got alerted to the racism with the 'That's voodoo' line that just caught us all off guard. I remember pausing the episode and talking to my brothers about it, and once we continued the episode again, we were all speechless. Honestly, I love the episode for what it did. I think they missed the opportunity to address sexism with the 13th doctor and I love that they're taking a bit of a risk in showing it here. I think it was woven in beautifully. I often watch the episodes with my family, and this season has given us a lot to talk about after watching the episode which is absolutely great! We started watching together with the 13th doctor, but (in my opinion), the stories didn't really bring too much to discuss to the table.

[@PsychoEmmii]

My best friend and I didn't notice that the ending was meant to be about racism until I watched the bts. He and I both thought it was just being a rich snob because we both found the character to be snobby throughout the whole episode. When I told my best friend, he was confused and he explained about his own experience with racism. We then watched it again and started to notice these small things. But he was a little bit let down by the fact that it was a bit confusing because of other side of seeing it as it could be a rich snob and wish it could have been done a little bit differently. And I personally felt like it had to many messages going on between social media, class and race that it made me confused. But overall good episode. So far this season had been great and can't wait for more.

[@samfisher6606]

Im going to be completely honest, I was only half paying attention to this episode until like the last 15 minutes. I hated the people in this episode, even before the twist of what I thought was initially classism. I just hate the self-absorbed social media thing. But the end really brought it up and made me hate them even more. And rewatching it looking back it's racism more than classism. And I’m ashamed that I didn’t catch on sooner.

[@ryangottlieb9939]

I hate to say this, but the racism at the end went over my head at first too. The first time I watched the episode I thought the issues Lindy and her friends had at the end was because these people weren't from Finetime, or that they weren't elite rich. I was *so* disgusted with myself that I didn't immediately get it. It made me sick.

[@InuJus10]

Also if Ricky goes with Lindy, as A Finetime resident his words would have more weight and they would be saved by Ricky and not the doctor. He's the one who did it

[@carld5329]

I think that we didn't see it at first is the the point of the episode.. To point out that it easy to not see it because it is easy to be stuck in our own bubble.

[@knitcrochettiger361]

there was also the generation aspect as well...the first half was about Gen Z's dependency on iphones and the social media....Lindy said people ages 17 to 27 were in FineTime.....that is Gen Z, people born between 1995 and 2010 (ages 14 to 29)....this is a satire on the far extreme of that dependancy....today you can see people in that age group walking down the street with their eyes glued to their phones and NOT look up once.....Lindy couldn't even walk without the help of her Dot....the Doctor even blatantly said it out right..."You can't walk without your bubble?".....this was the extreme imagining of that

[@ojaswirana]

Since this is the Doctor Who world, racism did not jump out to me either. I was trying to figure out if it was speciesism or some sort of classism.

[@joshualynch1107]

Am I the only one who noticed that Mummy was not just Lindy’s mom?

[@PeerAdder]

No.

[@LeFouGallois]

I have to say that this was such an incredibly intelligently produced episode. Everything from idea, to the writing, the acting, the production, down the pastel 'cool vibe' hues. When I first started watching the episode, I actually felt let down that I could not relate to the character of Lindy, ,or for that matter, any other of her 'FineTimers'. Something in my instincts told me that there would be somehow more to this, so I had faith in the process. As you have said, Lindy seeing the Mantraps for the first time was a classic Dr Who idea of someone suddenly understanding that their 'day to day' was in danger. The first gut punch was Lindy letting Ricky get killed, and then covering up her betrayal. I honestly believed that the finale line of her saying that The Doctor was not like them, might be because they had worked out he is not actually human. As a white guy who always tries to see the best in others, and has never experienced that kind of racism myself, the end scene just knocked me for six. It was so powerful in making us question how we see the world, through our own lives and experiences.

[@77wildorchids]

This was such a good episode! You talk about not realizing the racism aspect right away. The interesting thing to me was that the Doctor didn't either & then I remember that the Doctor has only been black for 5 seconds. This is a completely new experience for him. These people would rather take their chances with the slugs than go with a black person? What!?!? Imagine being in the receiving end of that for the first time after thousands of years of rescuing people. Damn! I love the writing on this show!

[@SupaKen74]

I want a video to see Ellie's reaction to Dot and Bubble and can i say, I absolutely love That you all took the time to Rewatch, and then rethink what this episode was about.

[@MrDiddyDee]

Such a clever episode which was hiding it's final message in plain sight all the way through. The metaphors initially felt heavy handed but I took it as I would for many stories from the 'classic' era Dr Who, the social commentary and heightened caricature were very much in that same mold. The fact she couldn't walk properly at first wasn't because she wasn't physically able to, it's just she was so conditioned to believe she couldn't without having instructions. We have all experienced pedestrians fixated on their phones and oblivious to everyone around them, and even walking distractedly into traffic. There are instances of drivers putting their brains in neutral and following their dodgy Sat Naves so religiously they drive into a lake, down steps or to the brink of a cliff edge, so that reality is already with us.

[@Jacobwlane]

Something I haven't seen discussed anywhere is how the two main characters - and a significant number of the background ones - are very clearly blonde-haired and blue-eyed. It seems like a very deliberate styling decision to evoke the idea of the Aryan ubermensch as a somewhat subtle giveaway to the ending

[@judithstrachan9399]

I’m pretty sure some of the non-blondes were artificial, too.

[@Michelle-cz3kz]

Besides the discrimination on grounds of skin colour/ethnicity, there was also discrimination on grounds of age, body size, conventional attractiveness and financial status, and I have to say that I felt excluded from Finetime's bubble on those criteria from the start of the episode. However, I missed the racism until the final scene, and I felt dreadful because it had been so clearly signposted. Thinking about it afterwards, I realised that I need to take more care to look around me and notice the micro-aggressions that people of colour face. I also realised how well the episode was written. Often, with a 'message' episode, there is criticism about preachiness, but this episode delivered its message slowly and subtly via micro-aggressions that could easily be overlooked by people with white privilege. I think Ricky September was almost certainly a good guy. He was friendly towards the Doctor on screen, as you said. He also told Lindy to save herself while he faced the evil dot (did I really just write that?). I agree that the Doctor’s anguish at the end was indeed because the Finetime evacuees wouldn’t let him save them from what he knew to be certain death. Ncuti Gatwa acted that scene out of the park. What a guy!

[@lucrecean]

That you are uncomfortable is the point. Excellent story telling.

[@gisela_oliveira]

I'll admitt I didn't noticed the racism in the beguinning, and when they got to the conclusion I was like "no, this can't possibly be racism, is someing else like how they are outsiders".

[@kayjudson2679]

9:55 I partly agree that consistency is iffy wrt the walking, but I also just kind of thought it was a matter of her overthinking it. It's like how in some sports you can mess yourself up if you think too much about how you're throwing the ball or whatever and it's better to just get into the flow. When Lindy initially puts the bubble down, she really winds herself up about its absence, and she freaks herself out later when she's looking for the conduit building and isn't even sure of the exact destination, let alone how to find it without her navigational crutch. When she's walking later, too much has happened for her to still be thinking about the arrows, and now that she's no longer actively convincing herself that what she's doing is difficult, she can complete this easy task without getting in her own way.

[@thedarcbird]

17:40 (ish): I have to disagree with you on the view that Ricky September would have treated The Doctor in the exact same way as the others. The main reason I'm saying this is because when he was putting in the numbers, he didn't question the doctor or his motives, he just followed the instructions.

[@rossjones1530]

I think Ricky would definitely have had internal biases that needed unspooling, but he also definitely had the wisdom and just general _goodness_ to actually do so. Lindy and the rest of them are so entrenched, so stunted, mentally and emotionally, that overcoming their racism is literally impossible, at least in time to make the correct decision.

[@TheRetroMess]

It honestly threw me for a loop when it happened. I too thought it was simple elitism up until then, then the end happened and it felt like being back in my majority white hick and elitist high school when I got shunned because of my last name (not overtly my skin color since I can pass for white, but my ethnicity. My dad and his family). Racism is insidious.

[@judithstrachan9399]

People are selfish. We will always find some reason to exclude some people unless it’s trained or educated out of us. (Then we can exclude those who haven’t been trained / educated.)

[@deebee89]

Also, your protagonist doesn't have to be likeable. Geat gatsby, catcher in the rye......Nesta

[@judithstrachan9399]

Roger Ackroyd.

[@jjanglesandfriends]

I think the “not being able to walk” was to signify the bubble. She’s not stupid. But when put under stress, she wants her bubble to tell her what to do. She KNOWS how to walk but not how to motivate herself independent of the bubble.

[@BlueSpring3]

I'm glad to see I was not the only one, who thought they were just elitists, but watching the episode again, it seems kinda obvious.

[@andrewaulenback8561]

Also worth noting, so far every time (three times!) we have tried to train a "learning algorithm," that is an AI chatbot experiment, off reading the internet (for example Xitter), the AI has quickly, usually within a day or two, become monstrously racist and misogynist. Those voices are loud on the internet. So the AI story here seems to have two main possibilities, the AI could have become a monster just like the users, or it could learn to hate the monsters. This story used the second.

[@jamesward4561]

I felt that the walking difficulty was more to do with the fact while she was inside the bubble, all the images are constantly rotating, so initially it kind of makes sense she’d be dizzy, and then after a while has managed to re orientate herself. Unfortunately, would’ve been better if she had wobbled into the slug mouth.

[@Baptiser]

I can guarantee that emotion from Ncuti Gatwa is real. That's a response coming from somewhere who has experienced that and I felt it.

[@realdaggerman105]

I really like how Ricky acted very Doctor-like. She was clearly open to help, just not from somebody like HIM.

[@MAB_Canada]

Once I realized all the racism I’d missed until the final scene I became aware I too was locked in my own bubble. Whether that is due to white privilege or just plain obtuseness, I don’t know😞

[@imrathion5086]

This episode really made me grasp the extent of my white privilege. And I love RTD for pointing it out like that.

[@mizstories9646]

I feel like RTD did what Chibnal tried to do with this episode. The message was so powerful, but it wasn't just spelled out in letters in the screen with bad writing.

[@-NiamhWitch-]

This was by far my favorite episode of this season so far!

[@tacobowler]

I think most people went into the episode expecting it to critique social media, and I think that contributed to many (including me) to miss the clues until it was directly in front of us. Because we were specifically looking in the wrong direction. Ironically, I was looking in the wrong direction, because of my bubble (of fandom and speculation and following the previews).

[@robertmckeever5116]

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one to miss the racism angle, not even after 2 viewings. Dunno know if it’s my age (62) but it totally went over my head and I like to think I’m pretty attuned to things like that. I have cerebral palsy so know what it’s like to be ignored, disregarded & discriminated against. Once the behaviours are pointed they’re actually quite jarring. Not really sure how I feel about the episode overall, my need a 3rd visit.

[@littlered6340]

I love having the change of heart about this episode after realising how brilliant it was. I was kinda worried with the initial reactions being a little underwhelmed, but I think that's because, as a PoC, I did not need (but I still want to, because I liked it) a re-watch of this episode.

[@Absolute76]

Idk if it’s just me, but I hope to see the actor who played Ricky come back as the Doctor in a future regeneration. He played his role so well and gave me Doctor vibes and felt like he could do well with the role in a future regeneration.

[@PeerAdder]

I've wondered in another comment if the actor who played Ricky - Tom Rhys Harries - might have been RTD's leading contender to be the new Doctor before Ncuti Gatwa turned up, auditioned, and took the spot. RTD is on record as saying they thought they had found their new Doctor right up to the moment they met Ncuti.

[@Absolute76]

@@PeerAdder oh that’s true, I didn’t even think about that. Thats possible. Let’s hope that RTD is able use that actor again in the future because he felt right at home in Doctor Who

[@bentilley5412]

One day Charlie Brooker will write an episode of Doctor Who. I have been waiting for this for twenty-odd years, but I still have faith. One day, one glorious day....

[@Bargle5]

Nice to know I wasn't the only one that missed the racism aspect at first.

[@sirdwest]

If the dots started attacking the people would stop using them

[@judithstrachan9399]

Nope, they wouldn’t notice that people were dead, only that they weren’t online.

[@GigiC4]

I admit I missed the racism aspect at first, I thought it was about living in an echo chamber only seeing and hearing things you like and agree with and also the dependance in technology as in walking only with the arrow but then I started to feel something else was going on when Lindy was so upset that Ruby and the Doctor were in the same room by the end when it was made crystal clear it was racism pure and simple I just wanted the boat to get gobbled up by a giant slug and wipe that smile off her face!

[@bobfather7355]

Someone else pointed out that she can't walk straight because the bubble is always moving right. So in the office, she keeps leaning right. After a little while, she would regain her bearings

[@DBuckyBoy]

Why is nobody picking up on "important" characters having names that are days of the week and/or months? Could we see Sunday, Monday and September all unite at the end of this series?

[@PeerAdder]

That's definitely not an accident, but what RTD will do with it, if anything, is anyone's guess. In the same way that pseudo-doctor stand-in Ricky September, unique among the people of FineTime, has the same initials as well as the same name construction as Ruby Sunday.

[@mezzodave]

I think the cant walk/can't run is more a metaphor for the inability to find one's own way once the bubble is removed. This episode was really something.

[@nixxie2390]

One thing I noticed about half way through watching is that Ricky september is the only person standing in front of their bubble. Everyone else is sitting! He is the only one who gets up (& dances amazingly). He reads actual books... he is NOT like the others at all (Hence why story-wise he could not get past the door).